A Time to Kill (the can)

[4TheWin]

Wow - a ton of great answers received here and in the Dec 17 quit group to my (honest) question about smoking cigars. It was a legit question, in that it was something that was in my mind and that I expected to struggle with at some point.

I now feel very well armed with a ton of new tools to stay strong when someone offers me a stogie. I am definitely an addict and will not touch nic in any form.

I really appreciate all of the support, advice and strong feelings expressed on this topic. I am sorry that it is obviously well covered ground by the true KTC pros and I hope I did not get anyone too bent out of shape!

[DonkeyMN]

Posted this in the Dec 2017 page today....thought I would include it here...to make sure my friends see it...would love your comments (especially FLLIP)...what say y'all?

Okay, so I am feeling very pissed off today....mostly for no good reason....but I thought I would post something here rather than destroy any more expensive telecommunications equipment. I also want to stir up some sh*t and think it is better done today than tomorrow when the train arrives.

Here is my question to the vets/mods/powers that be....why can I not have a cigar once or twice a year? Okay, there, I said it...now go ahead and jump all over me.

Last week I was at a setting where several of the boys were smokin a stogie and I have to say...I was tempted. Then I remembered my pledge (No Nic in any form) to this f*cking place and there was no way I was going back on my word, so I moved on. Still had a fun night too.

But it did make me think....I dipped for 36 years and over that entire time I also smoked one or two cigars a year...almost always at some big event (grad, wedding, birth, reunion, cruise, vacation with the boys, etc.)...and I can say that I never found tobacco / nicotine addictive from that particular delivery system. In fact, I really do not even like stogies that much, I just like the bond that comes from having a cigar on those big occasions. I see virtually no risk that having a cigar when I go golfing with my old college roomates next May is going to lead me back to the can. So, please tell me why I must include all nic in my promise not to use.

I realize that smoking is a huge problem for some (maybe many) who hang on this site, but if I want one cigar a year and can handle it, do I really have to leave here and be banished forever? (In all seriousness I am such a huge skoal addict that I will keep coming here forever even if it does mean that I can never have a cigar again...but I want to get this off my chest and deal with it because I know it is going to come up for me shortly).

Ready, set....attack! 'bang head' 'Crazy' 'na na'

4thewin, what you are feeling is pretty normal. I would say this question gets asked about the cigar more than any other delivery system. "It is just a social thing, it wouldn't make any difference"....

Maybe it would. Maybe it wouldn't.... but the critical point is, you gave your word here, that you would have no forms of nicotine. Why? Because like any other addiction, (alcohol, meth, heroin, cocaine) - once you open that door, just a sliver - just a little crack.... you start making other excuses.

--Two weeks later

"Well, that one cigar didn't make a difference, so maybe a quick cigarette when I am drunk"

--Two weeks later

"Well that cigarette didn't make a difference, so I can bum a dip off my buddy"

--One week later

"Ah, yeah.... 2 lottery tickets, a beef jerky and..... a can of Skoal Mint please"

Fuck that shit. Make your word, keep your word. Take it off the table completely... why take that chance? Will smoking a cigar with your buddies change your life for the better? Fuck No. You said you still had a fun time that night. There you go. Be proud of what you are doing. Only a very small percentage of people have the fucking balls to stand up for themselves and do what you are doing. Wear that decision like a kings crown.

IQWYT

[4TheWin]

Posted this in the Dec 2017 page today....thought I would include it here...to make sure my friends see it...would love your comments (especially FLLIP)...what say y'all?

Okay, so I am feeling very pissed off today....mostly for no good reason....but I thought I would post something here rather than destroy any more expensive telecommunications equipment. I also want to stir up some sh*t and think it is better done today than tomorrow when the train arrives.

Here is my question to the vets/mods/powers that be....why can I not have a cigar once or twice a year? Okay, there, I said it...now go ahead and jump all over me.

Last week I was at a setting where several of the boys were smokin a stogie and I have to say...I was tempted. Then I remembered my pledge (No Nic in any form) to this f*cking place and there was no way I was going back on my word, so I moved on. Still had a fun night too.

But it did make me think....I dipped for 36 years and over that entire time I also smoked one or two cigars a year...almost always at some big event (grad, wedding, birth, reunion, cruise, vacation with the boys, etc.)...and I can say that I never found tobacco / nicotine addictive from that particular delivery system. In fact, I really do not even like stogies that much, I just like the bond that comes from having a cigar on those big occasions. I see virtually no risk that having a cigar when I go golfing with my old college roomates next May is going to lead me back to the can. So, please tell me why I must include all nic in my promise not to use.

I realize that smoking is a huge problem for some (maybe many) who hang on this site, but if I want one cigar a year and can handle it, do I really have to leave here and be banished forever? (In all seriousness I am such a huge skoal addict that I will keep coming here forever even if it does mean that I can never have a cigar again...but I want to get this off my chest and deal with it because I know it is going to come up for me shortly).

Ready, set....attack! 'bang head' 'Crazy' 'na na'

[DonkeyMN]

Wow - 13 days between entries on my Intro....this is a reflection of how busy I have been at work and not my level of interest in all things KTC.

Day 63 now and all is well. I keep expecting to hit the wall or some kind of lull, but it has not really happened. Perhaps I am too busy right now to even notice if I am in a quit funk? At any rate, all is well with quit-world. Still getting fog, but seems less and less and right now I cannot even really tell if it is nic related or just general stress, fatigue and lack of sleep stuff. Of course I still get the nic b*tch whispering in my ear...but have not even really seriously been tempted to listen to her. Went inside gas stations a couple of times...even some of my old dip buying regulars without any dangers (I was not trying to temp fate...I either really needed some water/gum or I really needed to pee). I have cut down on my use of Smokey Mountain to almost nothing. I just don't want it enough to reach for it. But I do have three emergency cans of Smokey ready at all times (work, car, home). I am still using sun seeds quite a bit when I feel the urge to have something in my mouth.

More later today I hope...right now I have to help my youngest with some Algebra problems...yippee....at least it ain't calculus...last time I tried to help on calc I embarassed myself. It is amazing what we forget!

Quit on and be excellent!!

Staying busy is an excellent way to keep your mind off of nic. It simply cannot be a big distraction if you don't let it. However, from time to time having some reflection of how your life has changed and how you are feeling at THIS MOMENT is healthy, I think. Your intro is a great way to do that - so keep it up.

You are winning, ODAAT. Remember it is a marathon, not a sprint and you are doing great!

[4TheWin]

Wow - 13 days between entries on my Intro....this is a reflection of how busy I have been at work and not my level of interest in all things KTC.

Day 63 now and all is well. I keep expecting to hit the wall or some kind of lull, but it has not really happened. Perhaps I am too busy right now to even notice if I am in a quit funk? At any rate, all is well with quit-world. Still getting fog, but seems less and less and right now I cannot even really tell if it is nic related or just general stress, fatigue and lack of sleep stuff. Of course I still get the nic b*tch whispering in my ear...but have not even really seriously been tempted to listen to her. Went inside gas stations a couple of times...even some of my old dip buying regulars without any dangers (I was not trying to temp fate...I either really needed some water/gum or I really needed to pee). I have cut down on my use of Smokey Mountain to almost nothing. I just don't want it enough to reach for it. But I do have three emergency cans of Smokey ready at all times (work, car, home). I am still using sun seeds quite a bit when I feel the urge to have something in my mouth.

More later today I hope...right now I have to help my youngest with some Algebra problems...yippee....at least it ain't calculus...last time I tried to help on calc I embarassed myself. It is amazing what we forget!

Quit on and be excellent!!

[4TheWin]

Thanks FLLIPOUT...love those emojis too. Not sure how you can get those special ones but I appreciate them and you!

[FLLipOut]

'party' Congratulations on Half a Hall 4TW! 'party' You are crushing it!

473 days and I still get those thoughts from time to time. Pretty scary that over a year later and the Nic bitch is still trying to lure me back. All the more reason to never go back to something that horrible!

Quit on!

[4TheWin]

Well halfway to the Hall today, so I thought I should write something here. For whatever reason I have not felt much like writing in my Intro lately...but I have still been reading a ton at KTC all the time, which is good.

I am feeling good about my quit and quite good about the support network here.

As for the rest, who knows. Life continues on. I believe that my mind and body are healed from the poison I was ingesting, but of course I will never be cured from this terrible addiction. Sadly, I still kind of miss the "habit" side of dip. Sneaking off for a few minutes on my own...and relaxing and doing something that was "just for me." I realize now how terrible this sounds, and I do understand how destructive this behavior has been (and that it could and still might kill me). Still I would be lying if I did not acknowledge these feelings. They are no way near strong enough to pull me back, but they are scary and a reminder that I absolutely need to WUPP and stay on KTC...and I probably always will. Fifty days is nothing when you have been using for 36 years!

And then there is the Nic Bitch. (Hate to be so sexist, but this is the perfect name/description of this mental aspect of nic addiction, IMO!) She still comes around all the f*cking time and whispers in my ear. Like.....

My wife heading out of town to visit relatives for two days....and there is the Nic Bitch saying, oh good, now you can sneak a reward can while she is gone, just one, you deserve it, it won't hurt anyone or anything, go ahead and then everything will be sooo much better.....

Or, working super hard to get some stuff done at work and there is the Nic Bitch saying, oh just go grab a can....it will help you power through this stuff and keep you awake...once you are done with project {fill in the blank} this weekend you can stop again, it is easy, it will help you and help your work and help you get done with work sooner, so come on, just this once...

Evil, pure evil. And I don't think I can fight her on my own...and Thank God that with this community I do not have to!

Right now forever seems like a long time to fight this fight and 100 days seems like a long way off. That is why we will do it ODAAT. I quit for today and am proud to quit with every KTC quitter, especially all of those who have taken the time to mentor me and offer support along the way.

Quit on and be excellent!

HEY NICOTINE 'Finger' 'Finger' 'Finger'

[Falcon67]

Good morning. Great f*cking day to be quit with you all. Day 37 here, nothing special. ODAAT.

Have been super busy at work these days, but still spend a ton of time reading KTC stuff just about every night. I find that reading about nic addiction and others who have walked this same path to be extremely helpful in many, many ways. I like both the good stories and the bad ones, as there are excellent lessons to be had from both. I wish I had more time to be a leader for our little DEC 17 group. We have some real cool folks and some bonifide impressive BAQs for sure (staying quit through a Cat 4 hurricane, staying quit when your kid gets diagnosed with cancer now that is some bad ass stuff). However, I have neither the tech savvy nor the spare minutes to assist with group maintenance. I do try my best to offer encouragement to our little band of Decemberists anytime it seems someone is down or when someone hits a milestone. I have about 4 or 5 regular or semi-regular text buddies (and many more digits in reserve). I post support regularly on a few other groups (but should probably do more), and I try to write a little in my intro from time to time. So I am trying to follow the plan...oh and most important I believe I have 100% WUPP attendance since I joined (from at least two different countried and five different states!).

Jeff and FLLIP, thanks as always for your support. You guys have invested a ton in me since like day one, and I really appreciate it!

DonkeyMN - I have now read your entire Intro a couple of times....and it is one of my favorites...however thanks for the reminder to read that section again...it was helpful and in general I have to say that reading things more than once on KTC is never a bad idea....as my powers of retention are not always perfectly sharp while I am here.

Bazooka Joe - you seem like a particularly sage quit Vet. I am really glad to get some affirmation that continuing to write about my quit is important and that it is okay (at least by your terms) for me to just come and pour out my thoughts here, even if it is pretty much drivel most of the time. Thank you, man. I was thinking that I should wind this down at some point soon, but with your encouragement I will keep writing here, as I do like it.

Anyway I hope you all have a great Nic-free day! Your support has made a huge difference to me and may have literally saved my life! Back to work now! 'oh yeah'

Dude you are ROCKING this!

I truly appreciate every time you reach out to me -- check up on me and the virtual high fives on milestones. Quitting with you by my side has made it OK -- every friggin hard day. When I post every morning I always check to see who has already made their promise -- and think of them when I make mine. Seeing your name above mine does give me the extra kick in my butt when the Nic Bitch comes knocking.

Thank you -- Thank you -- for posting the How HARD this is. The days you have struggles and how you have to tough it out. I could not do this if everything thing I read was how easy peasy everyone was finding this. There are days when I am really down and feel I am the only one getting a visit from the Nic Bitch -- I read your posts and see we are all suffering her wraith.

Stay Strong Brother -- I proudly quit with you today!

[Jeff W]

ItÂ’s awesome to see you holding so strong to your Quit. Love your intro and the message me youÂ’re sending. Stick to the plan. DonÂ’t forget she wants you dead. Keep writing. Down the road youÂ’re going to pull it up and read your own intro and itÂ’s going to floor you. Best thing I did was documenting that first three months. On top of that what you may not realize is you do two things...you re-invigorate the older guys. Your enthusiasm is contagious. Second you become exactly what others are to you. When you read those intros and they shine a light for you or help you get thru a rough patch...some other newbie is going to read your intro and say...damn this guy is me!!! Stay strong brother. That Nic Bitch is a predator. She wants wants you alone and without the rest of the herd. Making that promise on here every day keeps you smack dab in the middle of the herd where she canÂ’t pick you off. Awesome seeing you do so well.

I echo this! You keep thanking me and I appreciate but you have helped and strengthened my quit as well! Love when fresh quit gets it! Complacency kills many a quit and its guys like you that help pull us "vets" out of that cycle! So THANK YOU! Get you some quit! 'biggun'

[Bulldog0311]

ItÂ’s awesome to see you holding so strong to your Quit. Love your intro and the message me youÂ’re sending. Stick to the plan. DonÂ’t forget she wants you dead. Keep writing. Down the road youÂ’re going to pull it up and read your own intro and itÂ’s going to floor you. Best thing I did was documenting that first three months. On top of that what you may not realize is you do two things...you re-invigorate the older guys. Your enthusiasm is contagious. Second you become exactly what others are to you. When you read those intros and they shine a light for you or help you get thru a rough patch...some other newbie is going to read your intro and say...damn this guy is me!!! Stay strong brother. That Nic Bitch is a predator. She wants wants you alone and without the rest of the herd. Making that promise on here every day keeps you smack dab in the middle of the herd where she canÂ’t pick you off. Awesome seeing you do so well.

[4TheWin]

Good morning. Great f*cking day to be quit with you all. Day 37 here, nothing special. ODAAT.

Have been super busy at work these days, but still spend a ton of time reading KTC stuff just about every night. I find that reading about nic addiction and others who have walked this same path to be extremely helpful in many, many ways. I like both the good stories and the bad ones, as there are excellent lessons to be had from both. I wish I had more time to be a leader for our little DEC 17 group. We have some real cool folks and some bonifide impressive BAQs for sure (staying quit through a Cat 4 hurricane, staying quit when your kid gets diagnosed with cancer now that is some bad ass stuff). However, I have neither the tech savvy nor the spare minutes to assist with group maintenance. I do try my best to offer encouragement to our little band of Decemberists anytime it seems someone is down or when someone hits a milestone. I have about 4 or 5 regular or semi-regular text buddies (and many more digits in reserve). I post support regularly on a few other groups (but should probably do more), and I try to write a little in my intro from time to time. So I am trying to follow the plan...oh and most important I believe I have 100% WUPP attendance since I joined (from at least two different countried and five different states!).

Jeff and FLLIP, thanks as always for your support. You guys have invested a ton in me since like day one, and I really appreciate it!

DonkeyMN - I have now read your entire Intro a couple of times....and it is one of my favorites...however thanks for the reminder to read that section again...it was helpful and in general I have to say that reading things more than once on KTC is never a bad idea....as my powers of retention are not always perfectly sharp while I am here.

Bazooka Joe - you seem like a particularly sage quit Vet. I am really glad to get some affirmation that continuing to write about my quit is important and that it is okay (at least by your terms) for me to just come and pour out my thoughts here, even if it is pretty much drivel most of the time. Thank you, man. I was thinking that I should wind this down at some point soon, but with your encouragement I will keep writing here, as I do like it.

Anyway I hope you all have a great Nic-free day! Your support has made a huge difference to me and may have literally saved my life! Back to work now! 'oh yeah'

[BazookaJoe]

I like the fact that you have 34 days and five pages in your intro already. That shows you have done your homework and know how this place works. Keep writing about your Quit even if itÂ’s just incoherent stream of consciousness drivel from a foggy mind because itÂ’s classic quit gold. Sooner or later another young quitterÂ’s going to read what you wrote and cause something to click into place in his/her mind thus repeating the cycle.
Keep writing and keep quitting, youÂ’re doing a great job.

[FLLipOut]

Okay - I have time and a keyboard, so I want to get one thought down on Day 33 (Rolling Rock Day!).

I read on some else's intro (a caver who is now a pretty die hard vet) that they reason he caved after around 80 days (I think) was....BOREDOM.

The funny thing for me is that this observation REALLY RESONATES. I remember that feeling from at least one of my own (pre-KTC) failed quits. I also remember that it was not early in the quit, but that it came after a month or two.

I am not sure if this sounds crazy to others or if y'all have had similar feelings? As I type this now, it sounds soooo f*cking stupid. However, it is a reminder that the nic b*tch is not done messing with my head, and I absolutely must stay vigilant and close to KTC. As a 36 year addict, I would be an absolute idiot if I allowed myself to become complacent with my quit or if I stopped investing regularly in my quit.

Boredom....or feeling like ah what the h*ll having a dip will spice things up in my otherwise dull world and I like what dip says about me, that I am cool and adventurous...and without that dip I am just that much more of a boring dude and everything in life is boring so why not have a dip....I think this all goes together and I think it led me to some major caves. May sound stupid now...and maybe I don't have the whole thing adequately captured, but this is a warning to myself....DO NOT GET COMPLACENT!

Just keep reminding yourself that it is all one horrible lie, 4TW. Nicotine does not alleviate boredom. It only fills the voids it creates.

Your quit is going great, 4TW!!

[DonkeyMN]

Okay - I have time and a keyboard, so I want to get one thought down on Day 33 (Rolling Rock Day!).

I read on some else's intro (a caver who is now a pretty die hard vet) that they reason he caved after around 80 days (I think) was....BOREDOM.

The funny thing for me is that this observation REALLY RESONATES. I remember that feeling from at least one of my own (pre-KTC) failed quits. I also remember that it was not early in the quit, but that it came after a month or two.

I am not sure if this sounds crazy to others or if y'all have had similar feelings? As I type this now, it sounds soooo f*cking stupid. However, it is a reminder that the nic b*tch is not done messing with my head, and I absolutely must stay vigilant and close to KTC. As a 36 year addict, I would be an absolute idiot if I allowed myself to become complacent with my quit or if I stopped investing regularly in my quit.

Boredom....or feeling like ah what the h*ll having a dip will spice things up in my otherwise dull world and I like what dip says about me, that I am cool and adventurous...and without that dip I am just that much more of a boring dude and everything in life is boring so why not have a dip....I think this all goes together and I think it led me to some major caves. May sound stupid now...and maybe I don't have the whole thing adequately captured, but this is a warning to myself....DO NOT GET COMPLACENT!

Read my intro, I think day 72 or so.... same thing except you put it more eloquently than I did then.

Remember this..... life is better without Chew. It really is!