Author Topic: Tired and done. Quitting, Day 1.  (Read 20380 times)

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Offline Thumblewort

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Re: Tired and done. Quitting, Day 1.
« Reply #43 on: January 10, 2017, 03:27:00 PM »
Heya Samrs, if a glutton like me can quit, anyone can. It takes guts and deterination, but follow the program, and read a lot the next few days. This shit will kill ya!
Some of my fondest and clearest memories are peeing in places that aren't bathrooms.

Offline Idaho Spuds

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Re: Tired and done. Quitting, Day 1.
« Reply #42 on: January 10, 2017, 03:12:00 PM »
So solid advice from all.
There are a couple pointers I give new folks:
1. Post roll every day
2. get active on KTC, read, message, support, exchange digits, etc.
3. replace your addiction with something positive

there will be sections of your quit that will be very difficult, but they will pass and it will get better. Chew won't fix anything

Idaho Spuds

Offline cvoll

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Re: Tired and done. Quitting, Day 1.
« Reply #41 on: January 10, 2017, 01:25:00 PM »
Hang in there and stay involved with this site and quit group. Communicate with your group and develop relationships. That helps with your quit. I'm not going to lie, quitting for me personally was one of the toughest things I've ever done. It's amazing what control nicotine can have over your life. But remember that each day it will get better. My wife also gave me a lot of support and we spoke with our kids about how "dad" was going through a rough spot with quitting chew but would be a better person and the end of it. Try to remember that your kids and wife will get to see how strong of a person you really are by kicking this habit.

Offline Samrs

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Re: Tired and done. Quitting, Day 1.
« Reply #40 on: January 10, 2017, 12:29:00 PM »
Can, JGlav - thank you so much. Damnit, I'm crying. I want so much to be a different person, and this is a big part of it. Thank you for your words of encouragement.
"We have so much experience here in lying to ourselves and others, that it takes a strong voice to snap ourselves out of it... Be thankful that all these people are willing to be invested in you saving your life." -- drstober
"You're playing a game of chicken with a dead plant in a plastic can. If you cave you lost to a dead plant." -- Candoit
"The answer isn't more numbers. The answer is build relationships." -- Broccoli-saurus
"ok. now groop hug." -- 'drome
"The rule is WUPP (Wake Up Piss Post) regardless of time or zone, unless you are in the Phantom Zone.  In that case, hit up Jor-El and he can get you on roll." -- S412
My Intro - The Weight of Days - Mall Walking - Workin' it off in the Excercise Group

Offline JGlav

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Re: Tired and done. Quitting, Day 1.
« Reply #39 on: January 10, 2017, 12:04:00 PM »
Well Samrs, welcome to the best decision you made in 2017. Freedom like anything isn't of free of charge. Price of admission is posting roll first thing in the AM everyday. We
take it one day, one minute, one second around here. Know this. With your name on roll, you have pledged your promise to remain nic free for the day. Now to help you
with honoring that and staying accountable to your word we get numbers, we email , we chat in our group(April '17) for you. You most certainly bring the rage in here. Your family did not pack your
lip full of cat turds, YOU did. let's keep them out of it. I found water helped me a lot. Went for long walks / runs to keep the rage away from family. I used wintergreen lifesavers and fire ball jaw breaker candy.
I was afraid of the fake stuff but a lot od guys used it and it's ok. You got this. We all started at day one. Proud to quit with you on my 494th day

JGlav

Offline canofbeans

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Re: Tired and done. Quitting, Day 1.
« Reply #38 on: January 10, 2017, 11:54:00 AM »
Welcome Samrs! Such a great decision that you have made. You have posted your promise for today so just make sure that you are a man of your word for today only. Wake up tomorrow and do it again, one day at a time. If you need to vent, be sure to bring it to this site on your April quit group forum and let 'em have it...that is what they are there for. Reach out to some fellow quitters via PM and get some phone numbers as someone you can reach out to when you are not online but need extra support.
Rebel Rouser (retired)

Offline Samrs

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Tired and done. Quitting, Day 1.
« Reply #37 on: January 10, 2017, 11:18:00 AM »
Hey all. I've been chewing for over 30 years, and finally have had enough. I was gearing up for Yet Another attempt at doing it on my own, and not hopeful about being able to do it. Too many years, too much of a habit.

Then my wife sent me a FB message at work, and told me she wanted to help me. I hadn't mentioned it to her; I hadn't said anything... and out of the blue, she came to me, not to complain, not to nag, but to tell me she wanted to be my support and help me quit. She mentioned KTC, and I've spent the morning reading over the site.

She's a fine woman. I don't deserve her, but she's stuck with me, and I want to quit and make sure that she's stuck with me for a long, long, LONG time to come!

So, today is my Day 1. I am not looking forward to it. I struggle with my temper, though I've mellowed with age. Just don't have the energy for it anymore, I guess. But I am afraid of how I might treat my wife and my girls as I struggle through this. It's going to be a point of constant vigilance and prayer for me.

Don't know what else to say aside from that, and to ask y'all for your support. I hope that I can be a support in turn, as well.
"We have so much experience here in lying to ourselves and others, that it takes a strong voice to snap ourselves out of it... Be thankful that all these people are willing to be invested in you saving your life." -- drstober
"You're playing a game of chicken with a dead plant in a plastic can. If you cave you lost to a dead plant." -- Candoit
"The answer isn't more numbers. The answer is build relationships." -- Broccoli-saurus
"ok. now groop hug." -- 'drome
"The rule is WUPP (Wake Up Piss Post) regardless of time or zone, unless you are in the Phantom Zone.  In that case, hit up Jor-El and he can get you on roll." -- S412
My Intro - The Weight of Days - Mall Walking - Workin' it off in the Excercise Group

Offline Samrs

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Re: Tired and done. Quitting, Day 1.
« Reply #36 on: September 17, 2018, 11:19:13 PM »
Out of order... originally posted on 28 Jun 2017, 08:30

A work in progress.  Lots of links to be fixed now.  One of these days...



KTC can be confusing.  Not just how to post roll - they have a video for that, by the way - but everything else around it.  For the first couple of months, it seems like there's a bunch of unwritten rules that you run into every time you turn around.

So, rebel that I am, I decided to write them down.

This is a work in progress, as I have time.  If you have suggestions or corrections (or - even better - a link to a post where a mod or admin said, "This is kosher" or "That is unacceptable") please PM me or start a new topic below - I'll edit this to amend things as needed.

Now... here is Everything You Wanted To Know About KTC But Were Afraid To Ask.



TODO list...

[ul]
[/ul]




[size=75]How KTC Works[/size]

I can't do much better than this link on the main website - Here's How You Quit... Ball Is In Your Court Now.  That covers the who, what, where, when, why and how of quitting.


[size=75]Slang[/size]

IQWYT?  ODAAT?  WTF?  Decipher these and other Acronymnics Obscura using the KTC Quitionary!


[size=75]What's Expected Of You[/size]

So you signed up.  You've got an account.  You've even foudn your group and posted roll for the first time because someone sent you a link to that video.  Yay!  What's next?

Here's what you've signed up for:

[size=75]Brotherhood and Accountability[/size]

[ul]
  • By "brotherhood" we mean "get to know people".
  • By "accountability" we mean "tell people how to get in contact with you".
[/ul]
You'll hear people talk about WUPP EDD.  Wake Up, Piss, Post - Every Damn Day.  That means you've committed to getting on here and making your promise to stay clean from nicotine first thing, every day.

We don't take days off here.  No, not ever when you're really, really busy.  You never took a day off of dipping, right?  You don't take a day off of quitting either.  We are addicted - when we were chewing, dipping, smoking, or whatever, we would make time for our habit.  You are going to be expected to make time for quitting.  If you don't, the other quitters will get on your case about it.

That's accountability.  That's what you asked for when you posted roll.  Complaining about it is pointless.

Understand this, your fellow quitters can only hold you accountable if they can get in touch with you.  That means that you need to "share digits" (exchange phone numbers).  Start texting people.  Maybe give someone a call.

[size=50]Yes, I am encouraging you to text and call strange men that you met on an internet site.  I realize that your Mama probably told you not to do stuff like that.  She probably also told you to not stuff cat shit in your mouth, though, so frankly, you've already got a track record of ignoring her advice, so let's just let it go and get to texting and calling, OK?[/size]

"Brotherhood" means we're looking out for each other.  When your brother did something dumb, you called him out on it, smacked him upside the head and told him not to do it anymore.  Here, when you do something dumb, expect someone to call you out on it, (virtually) smack you upside the head and tell you to stop doing that.

Strangers don't care if you're stuffing cancer into your lip.  We do, because we're your quit brothers and sisters.


[size=75]KTC Is A Nicotine Free-Site[/size]

You knew that, right?  The site is called "Kill The Can", but really, it's for nicotine addicts.  So in order to be a member here, in order to post here, in order to get support here... you need to not just give up chewing, you need to give up nicotine entirely.  That means...
[ul]
  • No snuff.
  • No dip.
  • No chew.
  • No snus.
  • No cigarettes.
  • No cigars.
  • No pipes.
  • No vaping.
  • No nicotine gum.
  • No nicotine patches.
[/ul]
In short: If it has nicotine in it - do not pick, pack, ingest, inject, snort, sniff, inhale, or otherwise introduce it to your body.


[size=75]Wait - I'm Not An Addict![/size]

Why, yes.  Yes you are.  Have you tried quitting before?  Have you failed?

It's because you're addicted.  If you have used nicotine for any period of time, it has caused measurable physiological changes in your body and brain.  If you stop using nicotine, you will experience withdrawal symptoms.  Those withdrawal symptoms suck badly enough that most people, absent a support framework, will go back to using nicotine in order to relieve the symptoms of withdrawal.  That's pretty much the definition of an addict.

Some people react really negatively to the idea that they're an addict.  Don't.  You have to admit that in order to truly quit.  You cannot use nicotine, period.  You can't be quit for a year and have just one to celebrate, any more than an alcoholic can be dry for a year and have just one night out on the town... doing so leads to a relapse and a reinforcement of the addiction.

This is my own personal opinion, but I think that successful quitters really embrace the concept of themselves as an addict.  It is liberating - all those times you have tried and failed before?  It's not because you were weak, it's because your brain was fighting you every step of the way and you didn't realize it.  Now that you admit you are an addict and understand the implications of that, you can develop a support network - something outside of your nicotine-addled brain - to help you cope with withdrawal and get on with quitting.


[size=75]What You Can Expect[/size]

Oh, man.  There's quite a bit of advice you can find.  There is also some additional info on the main site:

[ul]
[/ul]
As you head into your first weekend of quit, I highly recommend going over Harvest Girl's Quit Compilation.  It's like the K-TEL record of quits, only the top hits... and if you got that reference, you can expect to see a AARP brochure in your mailbox any day now.

You might also want to check out this very useful plan for handling craves from Swilson:

Quote from: Swilson
People it's pretty fucking simple use the tools at your disposal. If you feel a crave do all of the following first before choosing to bitch out and put crap in you lip:

1. Call a brother
2. Text a brother
3. Make a post
4. Go back and read some of the shit you went through
5. Workout for 5 minutes
6. Eat something
7. Use a substitute like seeds or fake stuff
8. Don't be a little bitch
9. Say I choose to put cancer in my face out loud before hand
10. Repeat just don't cave


[size=75]Rules, Tradition & Etiquette[/size]

There's a difference between rules, tradition and etiquette.  Rules are what the guys who run the site determine.  If you break one of them, you may be a warning, you may get put on probation (where every post has to be approved by a moderator) or you may get banned.

Tradition is the way things happen.  Breaking up groups by month, AFAICT, isn't a rule - it is a very strong tradition, though.  You probably can't change tradition, so the best you can do is understand what's happening so you're not completely confused.

Etiquette is... everything else.  Suggestions on how to interact with everyone else on the site.  STRONG suggestions, for the most part - though some are stronger than others.  If you continually violate etiquette, you can expect people to call you out, call you names, and - eventually - start ignoring you completely.

The thing you really need to keep in mind is that while a bunch of the traditions and etiquette around the site might seem arbitrary... it really isn't.  They are ways of doing business here at KTC that have developed over the years, and they get followed because they work.  Take the time to read these words of wisdom from pyk1520 - he does an excellent job of laying out what's what, why things work the way they do, and why you should think twice before deciding to ignore the way business gets done here.


The Law (Rules)

[TODO: include pointers to rules, like no IP masking, etc.]
[Multiple accounts: http://forum.killthecan.org/topic/30249720/]

They're very lenient on the boards, but there are certain things that will get you shut down.  Sexual harassment.  Derogatory comments about someone else's family members.  Overtly racists comments.  [Verify... examples?]

See Gentgeen's comments on moderation...
Quote from: Gentgeen
It also takes A LOT to get banned here at KTC. If you review the guidelines -- http://forum.killthecan.org/topic/1004627/ -- the moderators don't want to ban anyone, and then try not moderate. (You can also review http://forum.killthecan.org/topic/1006018/ which gives some insight to the moderators ).


Posting Personal Information (Rule)

Keep your digits off the boards.  Send them in a PM if you need to.  If you post your digits on the boards, expect a mod to come along and turn (404) 867-5309 into (XXX) XXX-XXXX for you.

Probably a good idea to keep other personal information off the boards, too (email addresses, postal addresses, etc.)  There are spammers out there who would love to have that info - don't give it to them.  PM, or get digits and share 'em via text.

If you post someone ELSE'S personal information on the boards, expect it to be similarly obfuscated or just deleted outright, AND to get a warning about doing so.  You don't own that information, so it's not yours to share.


PMs (Private Messages) (Rules/Etiquette)

Private Messages are... supposed to be private.  There's nothing to keep you from copying/pasting something from a PM elsewhere, but it's both a breach of etiquette and a violation of the rules.

Per the moderators, "Sharing Pm's on the public forum is not tolerated."


Quit Groups  (Tradition)

TBD


Conductors  (Tradition)

TBD


HOF (Hall Of Fame)  (Tradition)

TBD


HOF Speeches (Tradition)

TBD


Wiping Your Feet (Etiquette)

It's considered polite to post support in a group before jumping in to make a comment.

If you jump in to make a joke, or tell a story about your quit or something like that, then you will most likely get a polite reminder to wipe your feet if you haven't already done so.

If you're being polite about it, it's usually OK to post a message first, then immediately post support.

If you come in, fists swinging in order to pick a fight over something or tell someone they're an idiot, then you had BETTER post support first.


Posting Roll - The What (Rule/Tradition)

Already covered WUPP EDD.  What do you put and where?

Every group starts out with a list roll - new quitters up top, supporters down below.  You post roll by putting your name, your number of days quit, and your promise not to use nicotine that day.  For example:

Quote
JoeSchmoe - day 17.  I promise to not use nicotine today.
Once you get some quit under your belt, it's acceptable to put your name and your day count, ex:
Quote
JoeSchmoe - 117
TBD: Dealing with a promise that doesn't make it to roll?


Posting Roll - The How (Etiquette)

Did I mention that they have a video for that?   I think I may have.  You really should go watch it!  As with anything else, though, once you master the basics, you are ready to move on to advanced studies.  Which is why I really appreciate CavMan83's instructions on How To Post Roll Like A Pro.

As he said elsewhere:
Quote from: CavMan83
You've heard it said that the only way to really screw up roll is to not be on it.....while that is true, it also is true that if folks spent just a bit of time to go back and review their posts, a whole bunch of the bump fixes could be remedied....maybe not all, but a goodly number of them! Quit on!!

Frazzled talks about why posting your day count is so important.

Posting Support (Tradition/Etiquette)

Some people post above the line all the time (Clampy).  That's OK.  It's actually a cool thing.  You may have a couple of vets who regularly post "above the line" with your group.  That's a great thing!  They're there to help you out, help you move through your first few months, answer questions, be mentors... whatever.  They're Qui-Gon to your Obi-Wan and yes I am a geek just shut up OK?

You don't have to be invited to post support somewhere!  If you feel a connection, go for it.  Post in the supporters section, though. Unless you're 1k days quit like Clampy and just do give a flying rat's patootie.

In short, long-time vets can get away with some things you probably can't.  Rank Has Its Privilege.

If there's a supporter that you as a group really like, you can explicitly invite them to post above the line with you.  That's kinda like adopting them as a member of the group.  It's more or less traditional to invite your conductors to continue to post with you as part of the group.


Changing Roll (Rules/Tradition/Etiquette)

DO NOT DO THIS.  Roll is sacred.  You can post your promise, you can amend your promise, you can fix a bump (see below) or a jacked up roll, but other than that, leave it alone.

In a new group, you can get away with moving someone's roll post from below the line (supporters) to above the line (group members) if they're a new, foggy quitter who doesn't get the hang of roll.  Other than that... nope.  Stay away from it.

Adding text to the end of someone's roll line?  Probably not kosher.  May be a rules violation.  Almost certainly a breach of etiquette.

Flashman commented on this.

Deliberately changing or deleting someone's roll line?  Definitely a rules violation.  Don't fuck with someone else's roll under any circumstances.


Bump Fixes (Etiquette)

TBD
"We have so much experience here in lying to ourselves and others, that it takes a strong voice to snap ourselves out of it... Be thankful that all these people are willing to be invested in you saving your life." -- drstober
"You're playing a game of chicken with a dead plant in a plastic can. If you cave you lost to a dead plant." -- Candoit
"The answer isn't more numbers. The answer is build relationships." -- Broccoli-saurus
"ok. now groop hug." -- 'drome
"The rule is WUPP (Wake Up Piss Post) regardless of time or zone, unless you are in the Phantom Zone.  In that case, hit up Jor-El and he can get you on roll." -- S412
My Intro - The Weight of Days - Mall Walking - Workin' it off in the Excercise Group

Offline Samrs

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Re: Tired and done. Quitting, Day 1.
« Reply #35 on: September 17, 2018, 11:17:05 PM »
Originally posted 16 Aug 2018, 20:17

Athan - thank you for this reminder.  Emphasis mine:

Quote from: Athan
Hmmmm. When I first heard from BubbaM about the 'cave' I was thinking Bsarno was gone. Then as details trickled in and a different picture emerged, I reasoned that the intentionality of the act weighed in it's evaluation. CLEalt echoed my thoughts and made a well reasoned argument; were this a question of guilt. But this isn't a court of law and Bsarno isn't being charged with a crime. He's being extended the privilege of posting roll on a nicotine cessation site, as are we all. The conditions for posting being nicotine free. Because we are addicts and we are dealing with addicts, grey area, no matter how slight, cannot be allowed as it will be used by the addict to justify using. It is for this reason, not to be harsh or cruel, but to protect the integrity of the process by which we have all achieved freedom, and to preserve it for quitter posterity. I think how Bsarno was rallied to is laudable and a great reflection on the success of June as a group and the character of the men in its hall. It is equally commendable by Bsarno to deescalate the situation and concede to post a day 1 in November. No doubt all of June will descend upon it in support as well. I'm glad Bsarno brought this to light because it further strengthened my own quit and I thought it complete after forging it in the fire of withdrawal. This was good. I will sleep well tonight.
"We have so much experience here in lying to ourselves and others, that it takes a strong voice to snap ourselves out of it... Be thankful that all these people are willing to be invested in you saving your life." -- drstober
"You're playing a game of chicken with a dead plant in a plastic can. If you cave you lost to a dead plant." -- Candoit
"The answer isn't more numbers. The answer is build relationships." -- Broccoli-saurus
"ok. now groop hug." -- 'drome
"The rule is WUPP (Wake Up Piss Post) regardless of time or zone, unless you are in the Phantom Zone.  In that case, hit up Jor-El and he can get you on roll." -- S412
My Intro - The Weight of Days - Mall Walking - Workin' it off in the Excercise Group

Offline Samrs

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Re: Tired and done. Quitting, Day 1.
« Reply #34 on: September 17, 2018, 11:15:32 PM »
Originally posted 10 Aug 2018, 15:56

I think koba really hits the nail on the head here, about why KTC works...

Quote from: koba
Quote from: Candoit
Quote from: scottschnitker
I had an interesting thought today scrolling through these pages of roll and accountability posts. I don’t understand how I could so easily lie to my wife and parents and friends and family about dipping and so easily break promises to quit when those were people I should have been able to turn to. Then I get on here and I can’t lie to you all here and I’m more scared to break a promise to people I only know via text and internet messages than my own family. Whatever the reason I’m glad it is the way it is because it’s working. Anytime I think about a dip I log on here if I can or even just think about my fellow rawktober quitters and the desire to cave goes away. So to you all I say THANK YOU!!!
I know it’s because we allow ourselves to become vested in each other. You have come to grips with your addiction and realize that only other addicts can see through the bullshit to hold you accountable.

Or we are way cooler than Facebook
I think a big part of it also is that your relationship with your brothers on KTC is formed first and foremost around quitting. You know your family and friends are all probably still going to love you if you cave, because your relationship with them was formed around something else. I think that gives your addict brain a little bit of extra wiggle room to convince itself that it'll be okay if you break your promise, because you know they'll forgive you, even if they get mad at first. But on here? You've got 20+ dudes who are all gonna jump your ass if you fuck up, and you know that your relationship with them is going to suffer serious (if not irreparable) damage, because it all comes from the bond of making that promise and going through this thing together.
"We have so much experience here in lying to ourselves and others, that it takes a strong voice to snap ourselves out of it... Be thankful that all these people are willing to be invested in you saving your life." -- drstober
"You're playing a game of chicken with a dead plant in a plastic can. If you cave you lost to a dead plant." -- Candoit
"The answer isn't more numbers. The answer is build relationships." -- Broccoli-saurus
"ok. now groop hug." -- 'drome
"The rule is WUPP (Wake Up Piss Post) regardless of time or zone, unless you are in the Phantom Zone.  In that case, hit up Jor-El and he can get you on roll." -- S412
My Intro - The Weight of Days - Mall Walking - Workin' it off in the Excercise Group

Offline Samrs

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  • Likes Given: 1561
Re: Tired and done. Quitting, Day 1.
« Reply #33 on: September 17, 2018, 11:14:49 PM »
Originally posted 10 Aug 2018, 08:33

Some excellent advice on general health and taking care of yourself from BravoZulu:

Quote from: BravoZulu
Quote from: jedi1991
Hi. Did anyone else notice their desire for booze increasing at a disturbing rate after quitting dip? If so, pm me. I think I may need some support.
Yes. Addictions can be substituted quite easily. When I was quitting dip, I would frequently have insane cravings that weren't real cravings for nicotine. When I stopped for a moment I could recognize that I was actually just hungry, or thirsty, or tired, etc.

In my experience, all of us addicts, whether alcoholics, or nicotine addicts, or sex addicts, or gambling addicts are all chasing a fix of dopamine. We want to light up the reward centers in our brain via shortcut....shortcuts are generally not going to provide the contentment that we are really after.

Sooooo, what are some things to do to combat this? One thing, which you're doing (well done!), is ask for help and establish a support system. Having a therapist or counselor can be hugely helpful. A couple of other things that really helped me included:

-admitting I had an unhealthy relationship with dopamine inducing activities. That does not mean you are weak or are lacking in will power. You are just wired differently. That is OK! Seriously.

-hitting the gym, it is never too late to add some muscle and cut some fat. I'm stronger and more fit now at 40 than I was as a college football player. I highly recommend the "starting strength" app to start slow and track your progress. Spoiler alert: it works.

-Check your nutrition. Are you eating a lot of sugar and/or processed foods? Are you staying hydrated? Eating simple carbs can cause insulin spikes with resultant sugar highs and crashes that do NOT help one trying to abstain from a substance. Eat more leafy greens and cruciferous veggies. Most of us are also chronically dehydrated. Keep your brain nice and moist, it functions better.

-Many folks seeking easy hits of dopamine are lacking appropriate levels of serotonin. Serotonin makes us feel content instead of the happy euphoria of dopamine. Contentment feels better. Try grabbing a couple of supplements that might help with boosting serotonin including magnesium and 5-HTP. (As always, consult your doctor before starting any supplements.)

-Meditation is awesome. It may sound new-agey or make your eyes roll thinking about it, but being mindful and quieting your mind feels incredible. Like any new habit you hope to establish, start slow. Even 1 minute a day will help. I recommend the "insight timer" app. It is free and has thousands of excellent guided meditations.

-Sleep! Make sure you're getting adequate sleep. Not getting enough sleep is terrible for your health, both physical and mental. 7-8 hrs a night is the sweet spot.

-If you're a reader, I found the Russell Brand book "Recovery" to be very helpful and insightful with the added bonus of being funny and relatable. Also, if meetings aren't your thing, check out the "stop drinking" group on reddit. It's like having a support group in your pocket. You are NOT alone.

Overall, be kind to yourself. Be gentle. Change is not easy but it doesn't have to be hard either. Show yourself that you are worth it and deserve to be treated well. Just take everything ONE DAY AT A TIME. You've got this.

If you have any other questions or want to chat, hit me up with a PM!
"We have so much experience here in lying to ourselves and others, that it takes a strong voice to snap ourselves out of it... Be thankful that all these people are willing to be invested in you saving your life." -- drstober
"You're playing a game of chicken with a dead plant in a plastic can. If you cave you lost to a dead plant." -- Candoit
"The answer isn't more numbers. The answer is build relationships." -- Broccoli-saurus
"ok. now groop hug." -- 'drome
"The rule is WUPP (Wake Up Piss Post) regardless of time or zone, unless you are in the Phantom Zone.  In that case, hit up Jor-El and he can get you on roll." -- S412
My Intro - The Weight of Days - Mall Walking - Workin' it off in the Excercise Group

Offline Samrs

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Re: Tired and done. Quitting, Day 1.
« Reply #32 on: September 17, 2018, 11:13:52 PM »
Originally posted07 Jul 2018, 00:39

Some thoughts on why we are so hard on cavers.

Quote from: Samrs
... and another note, for you all, on account of Dejvis.

Some of you may be looking at this, and thinking, "Wow.  These guys are being waaay hard on the poor guy!  He just slipped up!"

No.  He didn't "slip up".

He made a promise, and then he broke his promise.

He lied.

That's a hell of a lot worse than a "slip up".

Have you ever had someone lie to you, repeatedly?  Tell you something untrue, over and over again?

If you think you haven't... go look in a mirror.

"After this can, I am done."
"I'll quit tomorrow!"
"... next week."
"... next month."
"... next anniversary."
"... when the baby is born."


Does any of that sound familiar?

THAT is why we are hard on cavers.

THAT is why we hold their feet to the fire.

Because if we pat them on the back, and say, "That's OK..."

... we are telling ourselves that if we use, there aren't any consequences.

That it's OK to break that promise.

That it's OK to go back to lying - to our family, to our brothers, to ourselves.

THAT IS UNACCEPTABLE.

There is NO excuse for going back on that promise.

There is NO excuse for lying.

If you allow any excuse - any at all - you are saying that it is OK to go back to being the person that you were, the liar that deceived everyone - including yourself - about your addiction.

And once you open the door to lying again, you open the door to using again.

Don't let yourself fall into that trap.

Make your promise.  Honor your word.  Support your brothers.

That last means, "Don't let them get away with lying to themselves."

Look down below this, at the first line in my signature.  Read it and understand.

Quote from: drstober
We have so much experience here in lying to ourselves and others, that it takes a strong voice to snap ourselves out of it... Be thankful that all these people are willing to be invested in you saving your life.
"We have so much experience here in lying to ourselves and others, that it takes a strong voice to snap ourselves out of it... Be thankful that all these people are willing to be invested in you saving your life." -- drstober
"You're playing a game of chicken with a dead plant in a plastic can. If you cave you lost to a dead plant." -- Candoit
"The answer isn't more numbers. The answer is build relationships." -- Broccoli-saurus
"ok. now groop hug." -- 'drome
"The rule is WUPP (Wake Up Piss Post) regardless of time or zone, unless you are in the Phantom Zone.  In that case, hit up Jor-El and he can get you on roll." -- S412
My Intro - The Weight of Days - Mall Walking - Workin' it off in the Excercise Group

Offline Samrs

  • GUD BOI!
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Re: Tired and done. Quitting, Day 1.
« Reply #31 on: September 17, 2018, 11:10:50 PM »
Originally posted 24 May 2018, 08:48

Holy cow. 500. Half dangle. Never thought I'd get here, and you know what I love the most?

Today is just a day.

I mean - I'm going to celebrate, I like the milestone and all. That's just icing on the cake, though.

The real celebration is that today's just another day. Dad's still sick, but getting better. Oldest daughter got her driver's license yesterday. The two youngest are finishing up school in a few weeks. The sun is shining, so I'll get a nice walk in today. I'll make some progress at work, hang out and punch some friends at Hapkido tonight, then come home and snuggle the kids and the wife and write a bit.

All without nicotine.

It feels great, and I couldn't have done it without you all.

Thank you, whoever you are reading this. You're part of my quit, and part of the reason I've stayed free these last 500 days.

Thank you for helping me be a better me.
"We have so much experience here in lying to ourselves and others, that it takes a strong voice to snap ourselves out of it... Be thankful that all these people are willing to be invested in you saving your life." -- drstober
"You're playing a game of chicken with a dead plant in a plastic can. If you cave you lost to a dead plant." -- Candoit
"The answer isn't more numbers. The answer is build relationships." -- Broccoli-saurus
"ok. now groop hug." -- 'drome
"The rule is WUPP (Wake Up Piss Post) regardless of time or zone, unless you are in the Phantom Zone.  In that case, hit up Jor-El and he can get you on roll." -- S412
My Intro - The Weight of Days - Mall Walking - Workin' it off in the Excercise Group

Offline Samrs

  • GUD BOI!
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  • Quit Date: 10 Jan 2017
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  • Likes Given: 1561
Re: Tired and done. Quitting, Day 1.
« Reply #30 on: September 17, 2018, 11:09:09 PM »
Originally posted 23 May 2018, 12:07

Koba dug up a study on smoking cessation and relapse (caving) rates, and posted about it in the context of a new quitter leaving after 20 days.

I'll quote his comment here...

Quote from: Koba
It takes a lot of quit for your brain to get its shit together. This study surveyed people who had quit smoking, and reinterviewed them a year or two later to see how they were doing. For people who had been quit less than 3 months at the time of the first interview, only ~18% were still quit (without having caved in the meantime). Once they looked at people who had been quit for 3-6 months (note that 3 months is pretty damn close to 100 days, i.e., HOF here), the chances of them not having caved went up to 50%. It's not until you get to the people that had already been quit for 3+ years that the chances of staying nic-free until the next interview passed 90%. So if you think you don't need this place anymore after 20 days, or 100 days, or 365 days, well... the science disagrees.

Koba's response on my original post:

Quote from: Koba
I read that same study (along with a few others) about a month ago. The whole brain chemistry part of the addiction is really fascinating to me. One of the other studies I read had similar results to this one but took it a few steps further when it came to tracking the participants. That study indicated that the long term success rate increased dramatically for smokers that had managed to quit for at least 4 months. There wasn't much of a statistical difference between 4 months and 6 months and then there was a small increase in long term success rates for those that made it to a year. That study also indicated that 3 years was a magical number. The one thing I took out of all of those studies that I read is that the long term success rate for beating the nicotine addiction is pretty low, especially on your first attempt.
"We have so much experience here in lying to ourselves and others, that it takes a strong voice to snap ourselves out of it... Be thankful that all these people are willing to be invested in you saving your life." -- drstober
"You're playing a game of chicken with a dead plant in a plastic can. If you cave you lost to a dead plant." -- Candoit
"The answer isn't more numbers. The answer is build relationships." -- Broccoli-saurus
"ok. now groop hug." -- 'drome
"The rule is WUPP (Wake Up Piss Post) regardless of time or zone, unless you are in the Phantom Zone.  In that case, hit up Jor-El and he can get you on roll." -- S412
My Intro - The Weight of Days - Mall Walking - Workin' it off in the Excercise Group

Offline Samrs

  • GUD BOI!
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  • Master of Quit
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  • Posts: 51,793
  • Just freaking post roll, OK?
  • Quit Date: 10 Jan 2017
  • Interests: Writing, gaming (computer, tabletop, board and card), SF/Fantasy, hapkido.
  • Likes Given: 1561
Re: Tired and done. Quitting, Day 1.
« Reply #29 on: September 17, 2018, 11:07:50 PM »
Originally posted 21 May 2018, 14:02

Quote from: Addict#1111
Quote from: DTJD
I am so very frustrated with some of our group. I would hope everyone can look in the mirror and figure out what they are wanting from their quit. I will not call anyone out. We should post our promise in the morning when we wake up. I am not interested in a status update telling me you are still Quit. You can do that elsewhere. I truly want everyone of you here. I am proud to quit with each of you. Here is the problem. I see some cruising in here when ever the hell they feel like  it.  Wake the fuck up and post. I am sorry to be such an ass but it is unacceptable. We have people missing 2 days in a row a rolling in giving the rest of us a freaking number by their name. Where the hell have you been. Why are you better than the rest of us that you can't take 1 flipping minute to post roll or send a damn text to one of us that you know will get your promise on the board.  Commit to this group or get out   I am quit with quitters, not status updates.
Only thing I want is not too dip. Already made my mind up there it won't happen end of my story. Oh yeah I'm better cause I fucking said so. Sorry but I don't commit to groups I hate everything online social, I have enjoyed being a part is this group and to knowing that we all quit together. I spread word and tell people about it. But just saying I do nothing by anyone else's standard so if that's a requirement I'm out. If me being quit and getting in here when I can isn't good enough then I guess that just makes me not good enough and I don't need to be a part of this Superior Group
That's the accountability, man.

We're addicts.  Part of our problem is that we got really, really good at lying to ourselves.  Things like...

"I only chew when I feel stressed."

"I like it."

"I can quit any time I want.  I just don't want to."

"This is the last can.  Really.  I mean it this time."


... over and over and over.

Lies.

That's why you hear people hammer on WUPP EDD.

Because we've seen too many people, skilled at lying to themselves, start to say...

"I don't need to post first thing every day."

"I don't need to post every day."

"I can stay quit without posting."


Lies.

That post, first thing in the morning, is a reminder that you're quit.

It takes something passive and makes it active.  You've made a promise; now you're keeping that promise.

If you don't do that?  Well, crap.  You haven't made anyone a promise, right?  So you're not really breaking your word...

Lies.

Don't lie to yourself.

If you were like me, or any of the thousands of other people here, you had time every day to put in that first chew.

Hell - you made time for that.  You gave up sleep, time with your family, time with your friends to get a can and get your fix when you ran out.

You're telling me you can't find the same time to do what's worked so far to help you stay quit?

Lies.

Don't.  Just don't.  Don't lie to yourself, man.

You know that WUPP EDD works.  It's what's gotten you this far.

Keep at it.  Make your quit a priority.

Don't run from this accountability - embrace it.

Here's the truth.

There are people here, gathered around you, who want you to succeed and care enough about you to reach out when you are stumbling, to help you stand up again and walk tall.

Don't push that hand away, man.

Take it in the spirit that it's offered; because we're in this together.
"We have so much experience here in lying to ourselves and others, that it takes a strong voice to snap ourselves out of it... Be thankful that all these people are willing to be invested in you saving your life." -- drstober
"You're playing a game of chicken with a dead plant in a plastic can. If you cave you lost to a dead plant." -- Candoit
"The answer isn't more numbers. The answer is build relationships." -- Broccoli-saurus
"ok. now groop hug." -- 'drome
"The rule is WUPP (Wake Up Piss Post) regardless of time or zone, unless you are in the Phantom Zone.  In that case, hit up Jor-El and he can get you on roll." -- S412
My Intro - The Weight of Days - Mall Walking - Workin' it off in the Excercise Group