KillTheCan.org Accountability Forum
Community => Introductions => Topic started by: ninereasons on February 18, 2011, 05:56:00 PM
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I was 18, working as a framers' gofer, when I took my first dip. I was standing on the 4" width of a wall 20' above ground when a buddy, a rodeo cowboy, handed me a Copenhagen can, said "here", and walked away without looking at me while he peeled the lid off another tin. I remember that it stunk of ammonia, but I pinched some anyway, just like the commercial told me to do. In only a second I felt pressure inside my nose and ears, then in my neck, and I was light-headed. I staggered and almost fell. There was nothing pleasant about it.
For these 34+ years I've often thought back to that first time and I wonder how it's possible that I'm still chewing, when there's nothing about it that I like. I've got GERD. I figure I've spent around ten thousand dollars on chew: money I'd like to use to keep what's left of my teeth. It's humiliating.
Most people who know me would never guess that I chew. I've quit at least a dozen times, sometimes for months, even years at a time, but just one dip and its like I never stopped for a moment.
This time is different. One of my boys is hooked now. It made me so sad to think about that, it was like I saw myself for the first time. But it's always different - I need more than another reason to quit. I have nine children. I've always had plenty of reasons. What I need is a plan. That's what brought me here.
Ninereasons. Day 4
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I was 18, working as a framers' gofer, when I took my first dip. I was standing on the 4" width of a wall 20' above ground when a buddy, a rodeo cowboy, handed me a Copenhagen can, said "here", and walked away without looking at me while he peeled the lid off another can. I remember that it stunk of ammonia, but I pinched some anyway, just like the commercial told me to do. In only a second I felt pressure inside my nose and ears, then in my neck, and I was light-headed. I staggered and almost fell. There was nothing pleasant about it.
For these 34+ years I've often thought back to that first time and I wonder how it's possible that I'm still chewing, when there's nothing about it that I like. I've got GERD. I figure I've spent around ten thousand dollars on chew: money I'd like to use to keep what's left of my teeth. It's humiliating.
Most people who know me would never guess that I chew. I've quit at least a dozen times, sometimes for months, even years at a time, but just one dip and its like I never stopped for a moment.
This time is different. One of my boys is hooked now. It made me so sad to think about that, it was like I saw myself for the first time. But it's always different - I need more than another reason to quit. I have nine children. I've always had plenty of reasons. What I need is a plan. That's what brought me here.
Ninereasons. Day 4
Thanks for sharing, and well done on making it through a few days. It's your quit but you're gonna be a great support for your son when he comes clean and admits he wants to kill the can as well.
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stay strong friend. you've got the right mindset. get that boy of yours to do it with you before it's too late.
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stay strong friend. you've got the right mindset. get that boy of yours to do it with you before it's too late.
There is no way to get someone to quit, you can persuade them by showing them cancer pics and facts about snuff but no way to make them quit. My parents tried to get me to quit by showing me cancer pics and buying me nicorette gum when I was 16 needless to say it didn't work at all. Now here I am 3 yours later and finally got my head on straight and realized that this crap is killing me, I'm 19 in overall good health not overweight and was just diagnosed with high blood pressure. I wish there was a way to make someone quit but there isnt, When he gets he head back on straight he'll realize that this shit is bad and we will certainly welcome him on this site.
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Now is the time Nine. Show that kid the right path and make the change to get your life back.
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Welcome. You've taken the first step. We'll help you with the rest. You need to fight like he'll and show that kid the way out.
Sounds like you've got the strength to quit...it is staying quit that is the problem. That's where we come in. Post roll, stay quit and repeat.
Quitting is done one minute, one hour, one day at a time. Don't worry about tomorrow, next week, or forever. It is just about posting roll and keeping your word. You can do this, brother!
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Welcome 9reasons,
I too have had this addiction for 30+ yrs. I am only on day 7 and it has not been easy, but it has gotten easier. For me, deciding that I was GOING to quit (thanks Larry), using fake chew (hooch), and the fine folks here have made my quit successful. You can do it! see you at roll.
your quit group: index.php?showtopic=4289 (http://forum.killthecan.org/index.php?showtopic=4289)
how to post roll: http://www.killthecan.org/roll/ (http://www.killthecan.org/roll/)
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Welcome, Proud to call you a quit brother
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Nine, you can do this man! You have to admit to yourself that you are an addict and just deal with this one day at a time. If you're ever having a bad craving jump online and read some comments or some of the HOF speeches. I too have tried to do it alone and it doesn't work, post up everyday, keep you word and don't worry about anything but today! Fuck tomorrow you'll deal with that then. Shoot me an email if I can help. You got this!
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Ninereasons - Welcome. I've got 3 reasons myself - and I am also on Day 4 - and I've quit for over a year at least once too. Been doing it for 14 years. Not sure about you, but days 1-3 were really hard, and today has been better.
Like they say on the planes, secure your mask first then help others. Your son will come around, and you can set a great example for him.
As for a plan, basically whenever I am feeling a strong urge and am near a computer, I log on to this site. Just read around and ask for help if you need it. It has really helped me already.
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You're all a great encouragement. Thanks.
My guard comes down when I think I don't need to be on my guard. Roll call will keep that from happening.
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Not sure about you, but days 1-3 were really hard, and today has been better.
That's for sure. I wish I could say that every day will be better than the one before, but freedom is better than slavery any day.
Like they say on the planes, secure your mask first then help others.
Good word.
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You're all a great encouragement. Thanks.
My guard comes down when I think I don't need to be on my guard. Roll call will keep that from happening.
Roll Call is the key !! Early in your quit decide that no matter what is going on that day you will find a way to either log into the site and post or you will text your promise to a brother. I have not missed a single day since I found the site.
The point is to build a habit of posting EVERY day. You will see people who want to post whenever they "can" and that is just not how we quit here. Your brothers will be watching for you and you owe them and yourself a daily roll post.
Anything short of that is unacceptable !!
STAY QUIT
Greg
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Sunday was one of the reasons I started using Redman: no flecks of fine-cut between my teeth to embarrass me when I greet the pastor. That's yet another stripe that nicotine has put on my back, another reminder that I am a slave.
This is the first tobacco-free Lord's day in a very long time. Starting today I'll be privately calling every Sunday "Day 6" - to remind myself that I am not my own and have no right to make myself a slave. I'm set free to be free. This Sunday is Day 6 of believing that.
Ninereasons - First Day 6.
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Sunday was one of the reasons I started using Redman: no flecks of fine-cut between my teeth to embarrass me when I greet the pastor. That's yet another stripe that nicotine has put on my back, another reminder that I am a slave.
This is the first tobacco-free Lord's day in a very long time. Starting today I'll be privately calling every Sunday "Day 6" - to remind myself that I am not my own and have no right to make myself a slave. I'm set free to be free. This Sunday is Day 6 of believing that.
Ninereasons - First Day 6.
Congratulations on making it! I dipped since I was 13 without my parents knowing, then I came clean at 18. Now that I'm 20 I wish I would have quit when my dad quit. Its hard, but you'll make it!
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The fog has lifted enough that I can hold a conversation without forgetting what I was trying to say. Lots of water helps with the headaches - thanks for that tip. No cravings all day, in fact - my mind was busy with other things.
Yeah. I felt pretty good. Then the thought flashed on the way home tonight, when I passed the mini-mart, that a fresh can of Cope and a hard cider would be a perfect way to celebrate how relatively terrific I felt.
Weak.
But that nicotine monster is going to get stronger, and smarter. I know that. It didn't get to me this time, but it's a mistake to underestimate it. I have plenty of experience watching like a spectator through binoculars while the monster leads me around effortlessly, degrading me to prove its mastery over me. Brothers, I've watched myself dig through garbage cans looking for tins and pouches that I've thrown away in half-hearted efforts to quit. You couldn't be more disgusted than I am by that image. Anything that can do that to me deserves my absolute hatred. Hell, I've looked through trash to find dried up chew-plugs - the monster told me I had to, and I've been doing what it says for a long time.
But not today. I escaped with my dignity again. I kept my word again. I made it through the day again. I can't wait until tomorrow.
Ninereasons. Hour 1, minute 1 of Day 7.
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The fog has lifted enough that I can hold a conversation without forgetting what I was trying to say. Lots of water helps with the headaches - thanks for that tip. No cravings all day, in fact - my mind was busy with other things.
Yeah. I felt pretty good. Then the thought flashed on the way home tonight, when I passed the mini-mart, that a fresh can of Cope and a hard cider would be a perfect way to celebrate how relatively terrific I felt.
Weak.
But that nicotine monster is going to get stronger, and smarter. I know that. It didn't get to me this time, but it's a mistake to underestimate it. I have plenty of experience watching like a spectator through binoculars while the monster leads me around effortlessly, degrading me to prove its mastery over me. Brothers, I've watched myself dig through garbage cans looking for tins and pouches that I've thrown away in half-hearted efforts to quit. You couldn't be more disgusted than I am by that image. Anything that can do that to me deserves my absolute hatred. Hell, I've looked through trash to find dried up chew-plugs - the monster told me I had to, and I've been doing what it says for a long time.
But not today. I escaped with my dignity again. I kept my word again. I made it through the day again. I can't wait until tomorrow.
Ninereasons. Hour 1, minute 1 of Day 7.
When she figures out your are serious this time, she will be angry. Very angry. Remember, you are stronger.
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Starting today I'll be privately calling every Sunday "Day 6" - to remind myself that I am not my own and have no right to make myself a slave. I'm set free to be free. This Sunday is Day 6 of believing that.
"I can do all things through Christ who strengthens me" Philippians 4:13
" Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, the new creation has come: The old has gone, the new is here!" 2 Corinthians 5:17
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The fog has lifted enough that I can hold a conversation without forgetting what I was trying to say. Lots of water helps with the headaches - thanks for that tip. No cravings all day, in fact - my mind was busy with other things.
Yeah. I felt pretty good. Then the thought flashed on the way home tonight, when I passed the mini-mart, that a fresh can of Cope and a hard cider would be a perfect way to celebrate how relatively terrific I felt.
Weak.
But that nicotine monster is going to get stronger, and smarter. I know that. It didn't get to me this time, but it's a mistake to underestimate it. I have plenty of experience watching like a spectator through binoculars while the monster leads me around effortlessly, degrading me to prove its mastery over me. Brothers, I've watched myself dig through garbage cans looking for tins and pouches that I've thrown away in half-hearted efforts to quit. You couldn't be more disgusted than I am by that image. Anything that can do that to me deserves my absolute hatred. Hell, I've looked through trash to find dried up chew-plugs - the monster told me I had to, and I've been doing what it says for a long time.
But not today. I escaped with my dignity again. I kept my word again. I made it through the day again. I can't wait until tomorrow.
Ninereasons. Hour 1, minute 1 of Day 7.
I haven't pulled them out of the trash, but I have been known to throw in a day old dry plug until I get could get to the store.
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Starting today I'll be privately calling every Sunday "Day 6" - to remind myself that I am not my own and have no right to make myself a slave. I'm set free to be free. This Sunday is Day 6 of believing that.
"I can do all things through Christ who strengthens me" Philippians 4:13
" Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, the new creation has come: The old has gone, the new is here!" 2 Corinthians 5:17
I had a pastor once who once told us in a sermon that he used to practically eat copenhagen, until one day, he put a tin on top of his bible because it was playing a bigger role in his life than god was......but then he turned out to be a child molester, so I don't know that he is a good reference.
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It's not a good idea to try to handle a craving by looking for a store that sells Smokey Mountain.
"Hi, I'm looking for a tobacco substitute called Smokey Mountain - do you know what that is? Their website says your franchise sells it. What does it look like? well, a lot like those cans over there ... no, there ... down a little, next shelf. No, no, I don't want one, I ... uh .. never mind; I'll take this gum, thanks."
I'm glad I didn't try that a couple of days ago. I'll stick with diversions that aren't found in the tobacco section of the store, for a while.
I'm still feeling woozy, but my real trials don't start until the heavy fighting is over and the boredom sets in. I actually enjoy feeling crappy. It means I'm getting stronger. That's true, but it's also part of the poisonous head-game that keeps me addicted. I like fighting the fog, just like I enjoy swallowing toxic saliva that would make most people vomit. It's a symptom of my sickness.
My average quit is about two months - and like I said before, there've been dozens of those. It's all about some insane mind-game - something about having proven that I could beat it, so I must still be free. I've told myself just as many times, "Wake up moron. You graduated from high school, went through college, got married, had children, teach Sunday School, watched your children get married and read bedtime stories to your grandchildren, all with a plug of horse-crap in your face. Your life story is more about chew than it is about any other single thing. Free because you can quit? what a joke. You're only free if you can keep from starting again."
That's the truth, too, and the truth helps. But my weakness isn't that I'm ignorant of what's really going on. My weakness is that sometime soon, maybe in the next few weeks - maybe it will take months, I just won't care. It's just a moment of numbness and thoughtlessness, but that's all it takes to knock me back to Day 1.
This is the first time I've ever tried to quit with help. I never liked to admit that I used tobacco, I like it even less to admit that I'm quitting. But, I can already see ways that the pattern has been broken. I see why it makes sense for me now. We all stop caring for just a minute, but the group can't do that. I'll have off days, but the group is always on. When the time comes that I need it to work for me, I have good reasons to think that will happen. If nobody reads this, fine - I still know this is true. I've been watching it work.
I just needed to think out loud, to file down the edges that the gum can't deal with. These first weeks are all about equipping for the long siege to come, to plan against the boredom, the complacence, the secretly-formed plans to surrender. So, thanks for providing me a place to collect my provisions.
Ninereasons - Day 7
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It's not a good idea to try to handle a craving by looking for a store that sells Smokey Mountain.
"Hi, I'm looking for a tobacco substitute called Smokey Mountain - do you know what that is? Their website says your franchise sells it. What does it look like? well, a lot like those cans over there ... no, there ... down a little, next shelf. No, no, I don't want one, I ... uh .. never mind; I'll take this gum, thanks."
I'm glad I didn't try that a couple of days ago. I'll stick with diversions that aren't found in the tobacco section of the store, for a while.
I'm still feeling woozy, but my real trials don't start until the heavy fighting is over and the boredom sets in. I actually enjoy feeling crappy. It means I'm getting stronger. That's true, but it's also part of the poisonous head-game that keeps me addicted. I like fighting the fog, just like I enjoy swallowing toxic saliva that would make most people vomit. It's a symptom of my sickness.
My average quit is about two months - and like I said before, there've been dozens of those. It's all about some insane mind-game - something about having proven that I could beat it, so I must still be free. I've told myself just as many times, "Wake up moron. You graduated from high school, went through college, got married, had children, teach Sunday School, watched your children get married and read bedtime stories to your grandchildren, all with a plug of horse-crap in your face. Your life story is more about chew than it is about any other single thing. Free because you can quit? what a joke. You're only free if you can keep from starting again."
That's the truth, too, and the truth helps. But my weakness isn't that I'm ignorant of what's really going on. My weakness is that sometime soon, maybe in the next few weeks - maybe it will take months, I just won't care. It's just a moment of numbness and thoughtlessness, but that's all it takes to knock me back to Day 1.
This is the first time I've ever tried to quit with help. I never liked to admit that I used tobacco, I like it even less to admit that I'm quitting. But, I can already see ways that the pattern has been broken. I see why it makes sense for me now. We all stop caring for just a minute, but the group can't do that. I'll have off days, but the group is always on. When the time comes that I need it to work for me, I have good reasons to think that will happen. If nobody reads this, fine - I still know this is true. I've been watching it work.
I just needed to think out loud, to file down the edges that the gum can't deal with. These first weeks are all about equipping for the long siege to come, to plan against the boredom, the complacence, the secretly-formed plans to surrender. So, thanks for providing me a place to collect my provisions.
Ninereasons - Day 7
nine,
check this out, you don't relapse because your bored. That may be what you tell yourself, but thats a bunch of crap. That is the rationalization of an addict. Here is a snippet from " why I chew" off the Other resources page.
"It is both a powerful physical and psychological addiction which creates many irrational beliefs as defense mechanisms in order to perpetuate the chewing behavior"
You see the fallacy in your own thinking which is a good start, your belief about starting again because of boredom ar numbness or lack of caring IS AN IRRATIONAL BELIEF. It is a use rationalization. It is denial of addiction
"It's all about some insane mind-game - something about having proven that I could beat it, so I must still be free. "
and you recognize that your only free if you keep from starting. Like me your an addict. No different than a heroin junkie or a crack head. Your rational mind gets pushed under the bed and the addict takes over. You DO care, or you wouldn't keep trying to stop. The clerk at the 7-11 doesn't hypnotize you and stuff a wedge of cope in your yap, you choose to put it in your mouth. The can doesn't sneak back into your bedroom or your life you CHOOSE IT.
Your anticipation of losing your motivation to stay quit is a prelude to your own cave. Your actually teeing up the ball. Do you see it? In short " I call bullshit"
sM
Nine- take a hard look at yourself, why is it that you believe you " just don't care" I would challenge you to give me some reasons why you " dont care" I'd like to see what you come up with.
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Your anticipation of losing your motivation to stay quit is a prelude to your own cave. Your actually teeing up the ball. Do you see it? In short " I call bullshit"
sM
Well boss, you get to warn me that I'm making excuses when I'm not aware of it - I came here to hear all that. But the fact of the matter is that even if I momentarily lose motivation on my own - it's happened before - there is a way to prepare even against that by borrowing the resolve of others - which is what I'm doing right now, while I think about what you've said.
I invite you to remind me that it's "bullshit" if I cave. But that's not going to happen today. Thanks for caring - I really mean that.
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I came across these link-backs on Facebook, and they say it pretty well.
http://www.killthecan.org/facts/funk01.asp (http://www.killthecan.org/facts/funk01.asp)
http://www.killthecan.org/facts/funk02.asp (http://www.killthecan.org/facts/funk02.asp)
I can't say I'm not capable of dragging myself through "the funk" by sheer willpower, but I know that in the past I haven't. I'm not giving in. Exactly the opposite: a plan of attack is the opposite of surrender, kapitein.
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Your anticipation of losing your motivation to stay quit is a prelude to your own cave. Your actually teeing up the ball. Do you see it? In short " I call bullshit"
sM
Well boss, you get to warn me that I'm making excuses when I'm not aware of it - I came here to hear all that. But the fact of the matter is that even if I momentarily lose motivation on my own - it's happened before - there is a way to prepare even against that by borrowing the resolve of others - which is what I'm doing right now, while I think about what you've said.
I invite you to remind me that it's "bullshit" if I cave. But that's not going to happen today. Thanks for caring.
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I came across these link-backs on Facebook, and they say it pretty well.
http://www.killthecan.org/facts/funk01.asp (http://www.killthecan.org/facts/funk01.asp)
http://www.killthecan.org/facts/funk02.asp (http://www.killthecan.org/facts/funk02.asp)
I can't say I'm not capable of dragging myself through "the funk" by sheer willpower, but I know that in the past I haven't. I'm not giving in. Exactly the opposite: a plan of attack is the opposite of surrender, kapitein.
I hear ya nine , for me the funk is like getting thrown back into the early days of my quit, yes it does suck the life out of you and you lack motivation to do anything, but I never experienced a moment during any funk that made me " stop caring"
I still cared and I was never in danger of caving it just sucked , like depression and anger and anxiety all in a neat little package. But I still challenge your mindset on your quit .I don't think your making excuses, just some of your wording depicts a lack of commitment. Perhaps I'm wrong , feel free to tell me to get bent, Ultimately what is important is that you stay quit. Your way or mine doesn't matter as long as you succeed.
This is the kind of thoughts that worry me
" I like it even less to admit that I'm quitting."
why?
You need to sing that story from the rooftops.
sM
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Your anticipation of losing your motivation to stay quit is a prelude to your own cave. Your actually teeing up the ball. Do you see it? In short " I call bullshit"
sM
Well boss, you get to warn me that I'm making excuses when I'm not aware of it - I came here to hear all that. But the fact of the matter is that even if I momentarily lose motivation on my own - it's happened before - there is a way to prepare even against that by borrowing the resolve of others - which is what I'm doing right now, while I think about what you've said.
I invite you to remind me that it's "bullshit" if I cave. But that's not going to happen today. Thanks for caring.
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I came across these link-backs on Facebook, and they say it pretty well.
http://www.killthecan.org/facts/funk01.asp (http://www.killthecan.org/facts/funk01.asp)
http://www.killthecan.org/facts/funk02.asp (http://www.killthecan.org/facts/funk02.asp)
I can't say I'm not capable of dragging myself through "the funk" by sheer willpower, but I know that in the past I haven't. I'm not giving in. Exactly the opposite: a plan of attack is the opposite of surrender, kapitein.
I hear ya nine , for me the funk is like getting thrown back into the early days of my quit, yes it does suck the life out of you and you lack motivation to do anything, but I never experienced a moment during any funk that made me " stop caring"
I still cared and I was never in danger of caving it just sucked , like depression and anger and anxiety all in a neat little package. But I still challenge your mindset on your quit .I don't think your making excuses, just some of your wording depicts a lack of commitment. Perhaps I'm wrong , feel free to tell me to get bent, Ultimately what is important is that you stay quit. Your way or mine doesn't matter as long as you succeed.
This is the kind of thoughts that worry me
" I like it even less to admit that I'm quitting."
why?
You need to sing that story from the rooftops.
sM
I'm not going to tell you you're wrong, SM. This is the first time in 34 years that I've ever succeeded at quitting for the rest of a long and nicotine free life - and I'm only 7 days into it, so I won't argue against the idea that something needs to change.
Why don't I like to admit that I'm quitting? Because it involves saying that I started in the first place. I became what I never wanted to be, by my own sad, stupid choice. I have to say that I'm a nicotine addict. That's done. I have to say "I quit" every day from now on. That's done too. But I'm sad about the second because I'm angry about the first.
I'm not saying there's no joy in that, or excitement that this time it seems to be working - I know how to test the guy-wires, and I can tell already that this is a very strong quit, maybe the very first real one. But the most reliable test I have is to prove that this is anchored in reason, in knowledge and experience, in serious and sober planning. In other words, I test to make sure it isn't anchored in emotions (positive, negative or absent): because if it is, it just won't be stable enough to carry me through.
If somewhere in there you still spot the self-defeating attitudes that you think you see, listen: you're standing on the shore that I'm wading toward. You have my attention.
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proud to be quit with you, my brother. keep up the good work.
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Quitting doesn't make it hard for you to stay awake or wake you up in sweat, or give you constipation or wreck your concentration. It's not quitting that's sitting on your brow like a helmet of ache too small for your head. Tobacco is the cause. Quitting is the cure.
Don't turn that around, knucklehead.
Ninereasons - Day 8 AM
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I chewed so much gum today that I'm surprised I didn't pull a filling. But I'm heading to bed nicotine free because I thought all day about the promises I made right in front of everybody. Accountability, huh? ... huh! It's not just hype - this stuff works. And it leaves my breath minty fresh.
Ninereasons - Day 8 PM
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Quitting doesn't make it hard for you to stay awake or wake you up in sweat, or give you constipation or wreck your concentration. It's not quitting that's sitting on your brow like a helmet of ache too small for your head. Tobacco is the cause. Quitting is the cure.
Don't turn that around, knucklehead.
Ninereasons - Day 8 AM
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I chewed so much gum today that I'm surprised I didn't pull a filling. But I'm heading to bed nicotine free because I thought all day about the promises I made right in front of everybody. Accountability, huh? ... huh! It's not just hype - this stuff works. And it leaves my breath minty fresh.
Ninereasons - Day 8 PM
Tobacco is the cause. Quitting is the cure.
Startin to like this guy 'winker'
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proud to be quit with you, my brother. keep up the good work.
Thank you sts, and you too sM.
I'm feeling the regret strongly now, that I've never tried support before. I can see the big difference it makes to accept encouragement and to pay it forward - who knows how different my life could have been if I'd done this earlier?
But it's Today. And as long as that's true, it is not too late.
Ninereasons - Day 9
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A few people I've made promises to have disappeared. Did they find another group? Did they burn out? Did they get offended? Was it something I said?
Maybe one of them is reading this. If they've caved, my first impulse is to encourage them to try again. On the other hand, caving and trying again is the pattern of USING. That's what dippers do.
Every three to six months or so, your body says "enough!" - you have no energy, you feel like you're dying, maybe the inside of your cheek is puckered up and sores have started to appear; the very thought of a dip makes you throw up in your mouth. So you "quit". But somewhere deep down, you formed the plan to start up again if the circumstances are right, if you keep the use down to once a month which is how often you have a glass of wine, which becomes Saturday afternoons when you're with friends for a game, which becomes once a day at most, and so on for three months or so until your body says "enough!"
So, if you're reading this: friend, I miss you. I'm sorry you weren't ready. Please don't come back until you are.
Ninereasons - day 10
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A few people I've made promises to have disappeared. Did they find another group? Did they burn out? Did they get offended? Was it something I said?
Maybe one of them is reading this. If they've caved, my first impulse is to encourage them to try again. On the other hand, caving and trying again is the pattern of USING. That's what dippers do.Â
Every three to six months or so, your body says "enough!" - you have no energy, you feel like you're dying, maybe the inside of your cheek is puckered up and sores have started to appear; the very thought of a dip makes you throw up in your mouth. So you "quit". But somewhere deep down, you formed the plan to start up again if the circumstances are right, if you keep the use down to once a month which is how often you have a glass of wine, which becomes Saturday afternoons when you're with friends for a game, which becomes once a day at most, and so on for three months or so until your body says "enough!"
So, if you're reading this: friend, I miss you. I'm sorry you weren't ready. Please don't come back until you are.
Ninereasons - day 10
Glad you found this site Ninereasons. I never made it past a few days quitting by myself. I chewed for 30 years. The accountability and one day at a time did it for me. I have been quit now for 641 days. I'm also from Oregon. I live in Walterville. Your group is pretty new and you will see a lot of people cave. Help the ones you can and forget the rest.
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A few people I've made promises to have disappeared. Did they find another group? Did they burn out? Did they get offended? Was it something I said?
Maybe one of them is reading this. If they've caved, my first impulse is to encourage them to try again. On the other hand, caving and trying again is the pattern of USING. That's what dippers do.Â
Every three to six months or so, your body says "enough!" - you have no energy, you feel like you're dying, maybe the inside of your cheek is puckered up and sores have started to appear; the very thought of a dip makes you throw up in your mouth. So you "quit". But somewhere deep down, you formed the plan to start up again if the circumstances are right, if you keep the use down to once a month which is how often you have a glass of wine, which becomes Saturday afternoons when you're with friends for a game, which becomes once a day at most, and so on for three months or so until your body says "enough!"
So, if you're reading this: friend, I miss you. I'm sorry you weren't ready. Please don't come back until you are.
Ninereasons - day 10
Glad you found this site Ninereasons. I never made it past a few days quitting by myself. I chewed for 30 years. The accountability and one day at a time did it for me. I have been quit now for 641 days. I'm also from Oregon. I live in Walterville. Your group is pretty new and you will see a lot of people cave. Help the ones you can and forget the rest.
We're all different, but you get a bunch of us in the same room and it all starts to make a lot of sense what's been going on, why I kept screwing up, and why this plan is going to work.
I'm glad you're here, SAA.
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I'm also from Oregon. I live in Walterville.
I had to look that up. I've lived in Oregon for most of my life now, but in my heart I'm still a poorly integrated Wyoming immigrant. It's beautiful country where you live. One of my daughters went to her first Ducks basketball game last night - they lost - and drove back in the snow.
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I don't know how many more days I'm going to need to post something here just to take the edge off. I don't like being the yakkety one in the room, but this is therapy. In the real world people think that I'm a great listener (well - not counting my family), when the fact is, I'm just thick and it takes me a long time to think of anything to say.
Today I had a strange experience. I woke up with a sharp craving for something at the tobacco counter of the convenience store. I drove to a Plaid Pantry near my house in a familiar sort of fog. My brain was in cave-in mode: on automatic, trying not to think. "Get there, get what you came for, get out." I put down my money and pointed to a can, a round tin which I walked out with and peeled on the way to the car. I had the vague sense of compulsively doing something horribly wrong, because every motion was in an old pattern, every thought was directed down a well-trodden path, and even the smells were enticingly the same.
So, I don't know what to think about Smokey Mountain. Is this a quitter's weapon (it redirected a craving very effectively - I had no interest in the real tobacco behind that counter)? Or is this a gateway product?
I sucked on that stuff waiting for the relief to come - not consciously, but impulsively - and of course, it never did, which to my conscious mind was truly satisfying. But I worry. I walked into that store, not tied to a mast. I went through all the motions of listening to the siren-song, and feel like I escaped with my freedom and dignity only because I planned a way to fool myself - and it just accidentally worked. What do you think?
Ninereasons - 11 days of outsmarting myself
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You will get many different opinions about the fake stuff from all the guys here. So here is my 2 cents, and it's just from my experience. I didn't use anything for the first 3 weeks except seeds. One day the cravings were really bad so I decided to try some Smokey Mtn. Same experience as you, all the old emotions, the old routine. Got a big wad of the fake and ......... nothing. I decided I would use the rest of the can, I just didn't really want to waste the money. By the time I used the last of that can, I just really didn't care about using it at all. It did nothing for me. Now here is the critical part (at least in my little mind): I think that was very helpful for my quit. I needed that lack of stimulation, that lack of payoff from the oral fixation aspect of it. I needed to put that in my mouth and not get anything from it. For me, it was very helpful. I moved past it and haven't used it since. I'm still eating enough seeds to drown an elephant though. Here is my last thought: my advice would be to do WHATEVER you had to do not to use. If the fake stuff helps you, use it. Seeds? Go to it. My perspective was that my quit was so important to my life that I would do ANYTHING I had to do not to use. (Well virtually anything, there are some legal and ethical limits, haha)
Hang in there brother. I can tell you this: I'm still a new guy, I'm only on day 90 today, but I could have never imagined that it would be this good. This quit is the best thing I could have done for my life, my family, everything. Proud to be quit with ya!
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I don't know how many more days I'm going to need to post something here just to take the edge off. I don't like being the yakkety one in the room, but this is therapy. In the real world people think that I'm a great listener (well - not counting my family), when the fact is, I'm just thick and it takes me a long time to think of anything to say.
Today I had a strange experience. I woke up with a sharp craving for something at the tobacco counter of the convenience store. I drove to a Plaid Pantry near my house in a familiar sort of fog. My brain was in cave-in mode: on automatic, trying not to think. "Get there, get what you came for, get out." I put down my money and pointed to a can, a round tin which I walked out with and peeled on the way to the car. I had the vague sense of compulsively doing something horribly wrong, because every motion was in an old pattern, every thought was directed down a well-trodden path, and even the smells were enticingly the same.
So, I don't know what to think about Smokey Mountain. Is this a quitter's weapon (it redirected a craving very effectively - I had no interest in the real tobacco behind that counter)? Or is this a gateway product?
I sucked on that stuff waiting for the relief to come - not consciously, but impulsively - and of course, it never did, which to my conscious mind was truly satisfying. But I worry. I walked into that store, not tied to a mast. I went through all the motions of listening to the siren-song, and feel like I escaped with my freedom and dignity only because I planned a way to fool myself - and it just accidentally worked. What do you think?
Ninereasons - 11 days of outsmarting myself
You just keep talking as much as you want or need because most of it is trying to encourage others which is awesome when the demons are at your gates.
I love the taste of smokey mtn! I wish grizz, kodiak, skoal or any of the others ever tasted that good because I would've really enjoyed dipping. But damn it's a letdown without nicotine and yep that can and the smell and not having the the cheap thrill just down the counter that could saftisy the nic craving...I get it. So I dip coffee or tea when I need my pacifier. It doesn't taste good, maybe it gives a slight caffine jump but it ain't tobacco and it ain't sold as a tobacco replacement. It's just me being an idiot with coffee grounds in his lip.
Ah, long day and I don't know if any of that was helpful and rather than edit it I'll just say you aren't alone. Great work winning the battle today!
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Ninereasons,
I have been searching high and low trying to find some fake. Yeah, I know I can get it on-line, but I'm hesitant to order that way.
I'm jealous that you have been able to find it so easily. I've been to a handful of wal-mart's, 5 different tobbaco shops, grocery-stores, cigar shops, etc...
I hate how much time I've spent looking... Like some desparate crack-head...
I've left with something different each time (from the wal-mart's and grocery stores) to satisfy my 'oral fixation' for the day. Gum, beef jerkey, fire-balls, candy...sometimes when I'm driving I just feel like it would be nice to spit into a bottle. How lame is that? Writing this up re-affirms that I am an addict. At one store, I was explaining to the store owner that "It's a fake dip without nicotine and tobacco...because I've quit dipping"....he was nice to OFFER me his only 2 sleaves of dip for 8 bucks. How is that for supporting my quit? Tobbaco and Nicotine are these guys livlihood. I think I insulted him suggesting that it has been known to be found at tobbaco shops. I'm not going to buy the real-deal cancer-causing killer! But I'm sure I am not done with looking past them on my search for this so called 'hooch' or 'smokey mountain'. I will find it someday. It will let me down I'm sure and may help me in my quit like JCOOK says, but until then...
I'll be looking for you on a daily basis to stay strong and remain quit! It's great to have you here!
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Ninereasons,
I have been searching high and low trying to find some fake. Yeah, I know I can get it on-line, but I'm hesitant to order that way.
I'm jealous that you have been able to find it so easily. I've been to a handful of wal-mart's, 5 different tobbaco shops, grocery-stores, cigar shops, etc...
I hate how much time I've spent looking... Like some desparate crack-head...
I've left with something different each time (from the wal-mart's and grocery stores) to satisfy my 'oral fixation' for the day. Gum, beef jerkey, fire-balls, candy...sometimes when I'm driving I just feel like it would be nice to spit into a bottle. How lame is that? Writing this up re-affirms that I am an addict. At one store, I was explaining to the store owner that "It's a fake dip without nicotine and tobacco...because I've quit dipping"....he was nice to OFFER me his only 2 sleaves of dip for 8 bucks. How is that for supporting my quit? Tobbaco and Nicotine are these guys livlihood. I think I insulted him suggesting that it has been known to be found at tobbaco shops. I'm not going to buy the real-deal cancer-causing killer! But I'm sure I am not done with looking past them on my search for this so called 'hooch' or 'smokey mountain'. I will find it someday. It will let me down I'm sure and may help me in my quit like JCOOK says, but until then...
I'll be looking for you on a daily basis to stay strong and remain quit! It's great to have you here!
Larry-My use of the fake varies. I'll have a day where I'm golfing, fishing, stressing a lot and use it quite a bit. Other days I don't even think about it. I do think it helps cut down on those bad crave days, and that is why I'll always keep some close by. The difference is that I do not need the fake like an addict needs nicotine. I can go hours and days without fake. As an addict I could not go barely an hour without nicotine. The key thing here is to remain quit, if your search keeps your mind moving away from your addiction, it is just as effective as finding the fake stuff.
One suggestion I could give you is to call smokey mtn or hooch and ask them who their distributor in your area is. I'm pretty sure they are also distributing real tobacco in my area too. Then just call the distributor and find out who they sell to. Good luck and stay quit!
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Larry-My use of the fake varies. I'll have a day where I'm golfing, fishing, stressing a lot and use it quite a bit. Other days I don't even think about it. I do think it helps cut down on those bad crave days, and that is why I'll always keep some close by. The difference is that I do not need the fake like an addict needs nicotine. I can go hours and days without fake. As an addict I could not go barely an hour without nicotine. The key thing here is to remain quit, if your search keeps your mind moving away from your addiction, it is just as effective as finding the fake stuff.
One suggestion I could give you is to call smokey mtn or hooch and ask them who their distributor in your area is. I'm pretty sure they are also distributing real tobacco in my area too. Then just call the distributor and find out who they sell to. Good luck and stay quit!
Dittos for me. I started using fake shit early on and could not leave the house without the can in my pocket. Then I progressed to having to carrying it with me and never using it for days at a time. Now, I still have some in the house and I really only carry it when I know I am going to be around people dipping. If I forget and I get a notion its no big deal, don't really need it. There is a crowd of people on here that do not like the fake stuff, I can understand why. However, it has helped me make that transition to nic free life.
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I heard once that at the atomic level, any solid material is mostly space.
That certainly describes my tobacco use. At the level of the building-blocks of my addiction, it consists mostly of periods of not chewing. I didn't chew in my sleep. I didn't chew when I was eating. I didn't chew when someone might kiss me or when someone who cares about me might catch me. If I added up the days that I spent not chewing - which are numerous - it might look like I didn't have a problem because zoomed in like that it looks like I was in control for most of the time. But once back out to get perspective on the whole, and it's obvious - I'd been chewing for a solid 34 years, and the penalties to my health were there to prove it.
That shows why, as PackerFan68 said, you can control your quit, but you can't control your addiction.
Day 12
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Larry, I agree with ncgolfer. Your search for the fake is probably doing many of the same things for you that finding the fake would do - redirecting a craving. But now that you're looking for it, it would be helpful to find it.
Back when you were being stupid, did it ever happen to you that you went into a convenience store to satisfy your jones for a candy bar or whatever, but they don't sell that in this chain, so you walked out with snuff in your pocket? You and I are not going to do that of course, because we don't make excuses for ourselves anymore, but the point is that cravings don't like to be frustrated, and like an itch they are flammable in the presence of thought: if you notice that you have a craving, it will flare up until you can think of something else. That's why the fake works, obviously: it scratches many of the same itches. So, I think you should track it down, now that you've started looking.
I went to this page: http://www.smokeysnuff.com/consumers.cfm (http://www.smokeysnuff.com/consumers.cfm)
Just because a chain is listed doesn't mean that your store is going to carry it. I drove from store to store at first, which took me out of town, and it was not good for my quit. Then I used the telephone and was pleased to find that as far as I know the only store that sells the stuff for miles around is right down the street from me.
Once you find it, I'd guess you'll be like me and be amazed at how something that feels so much the same, smells so much the same and tastes so much the same, can be so completely lacking in the same satisfaction. But that's good to find out too. The thought popped into my head, "Uh oh! No buzz. Withdrawal is going to start soon." The realization that this is not going to happen choked me up a bit. Yes, indeed it did.
Day 12 - Nicotine is the real fake
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Larry, I agree with ncgolfer. Your search for the fake is probably doing many of the same things for you that finding the fake would do - redirecting a craving. But now that you're looking for it, it would be helpful to find it.
Back when you were being stupid, did it ever happen to you that you went into a convenience store to satisfy your jones for a candy bar or whatever, but they don't sell that in this chain, so you walked out with snuff in your pocket? You and I are not going to do that of course, because we don't make excuses for ourselves anymore, but the point is that cravings don't like to be frustrated, and like an itch they are flammable in the presence of thought: if you notice that you have a craving, it will flare up until you can think of something else. That's why the fake works, obviously: it scratches many of the same itches. So, I think you should track it down, now that you've started looking.
I went to this page: http://www.smokeysnuff.com/consumers.cfm (http://www.smokeysnuff.com/consumers.cfm)
Just because a chain is listed doesn't mean that your store is going to carry it. I drove from store to store at first, which took me out of town, and it was not good for my quit. Then I used the telephone and was pleased to find that as far as I know the only store that sells the stuff for miles around is right down the street from me.
Once you find it, I'd guess you'll be like me and be amazed at how something that feels so much the same, smells so much the same and tastes so much the same, can be so completely lacking in the same satisfaction. But that's good to find out too. The thought popped into my head, "Uh oh! No buzz. Withdrawal is going to start soon." The realization that this is not going to happen choked me up a bit. Yes, indeed it did.
Day 12 - Nicotine is the real fake
I can agree that the failed searches from store to store has helped calm my cravings. By the time I'm done explaining to the store owner what 'hooch' or 'smokey mountain' is (as if I'm an expert) I lose interest, and walk back out to my car feeling stupid. I just want to try it to satisfy my curiosity of what if feels like. And I believe you when you say I can expect to be dissapointed with the absence of the buzz.
I've tried sucking on a piece of beef jerkey as if I were 'dipping' it and it gets nasty after a while as my mind realizes that I'm sucking on some swine intestines, and who knows what else...
I will not leave the store with a nicotine product, because I promised you, me and everybody else first thing when I woke up that I'm quit!
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Larry, I agree with ncgolfer. Your search for the fake is probably doing many of the same things for you that finding the fake would do - redirecting a craving. But now that you're looking for it, it would be helpful to find it.Â
Back when you were being stupid, did it ever happen to you that you went into a convenience store to satisfy your jones for a candy bar or whatever, but they don't sell that in this chain, so you walked out with snuff in your pocket? You and I are not going to do that of course, because we don't make excuses for ourselves anymore, but the point is that cravings don't like to be frustrated, and like an itch they are flammable in the presence of thought: if you notice that you have a craving, it will flare up until you can think of something else. That's why the fake works, obviously: it scratches many of the same itches.  So, I think you should track it down, now that you've started looking.
I went to this page: http://www.smokeysnuff.com/consumers.cfm (http://www.smokeysnuff.com/consumers.cfm)
Just because a chain is listed doesn't mean that your store is going to carry it. I drove from store to store at first, which took me out of town, and it was not good for my quit. Then I used the telephone and was pleased to find that as far as I know the only store that sells the stuff for miles around is right down the street from me.Â
Once you find it, I'd guess you'll be like me and be amazed at how something that feels so much the same, smells so much the same and tastes so much the same, can be so completely lacking in the same satisfaction.  But that's good to find out too. The thought popped into my head, "Uh oh! No buzz. Withdrawal is going to start soon." The realization that this is not going to happen choked me up a bit. Yes, indeed it did.
Day 12 - Nicotine is the real fake
I can agree that the failed searches from store to store has helped calm my cravings. By the time I'm done explaining to the store owner what 'hooch' or 'smokey mountain' is (as if I'm an expert) I lose interest, and walk back out to my car feeling stupid. I just want to try it to satisfy my curiosity of what if feels like. And I believe you when you say I can expect to be dissapointed with the absence of the buzz.
I've tried sucking on a piece of beef jerkey as if I were 'dipping' it and it gets nasty after a while as my mind realizes that I'm sucking on some swine intestines, and who knows what else...
I will not leave the store with a nicotine product, because I promised you, me and everybody else first thing when I woke up that I'm quit!
I like Dutch salt-licorice - Dubbel Zout. It tastes nasty - a little like your tires would taste after driving behind the de-icer truck. But it tastes good at the same time, so there's a kind of macho thing going on there that can't but appeal to a dare-devil, ex-poison-swallowing hard-case like yourself. It's so salty that it actually gives you a bit of a buzz - if you can call slight nausea a buzz - and it lasts a long time. Erg goed! But, it's hard to find.
Whatever it takes to stay quit with you all.
Day 12 - Hup, hup Oranje!
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It gets better
This is the second "day 6" for me. I have more stamina to run and work out. I wake up feeling more refreshed. I'm more ready to laugh, to sing, to spend time with other people. My head is clearer, my thoughts are quicker: I'm solving problems and fixing things that are broken more easily and more cheerfully. All that's been happening gradually since about day 7 and it looks like it might continue for a while longer.
People here say "it gets better". This note is here to remind myself that "better" means better than when you are USING, bonehead, not just better than your first days of quitting.
I'm still a jerk from time to time. It's becoming daily more obvious that this is not tobacco's fault. What a disappointment. I'm not patient, as I ought to be. If only quitting would clear up my character issues as well. But alas, that's another, even more difficult project, and it requires a different kind of support group.
Ninereasons - Day 13
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the good feelings come in cycles.
i think it was around day 24 or so that sucked balls. then again around day 50ish.
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It gets better
I'm still a jerk from time to time. It's becoming daily more obvious that this is not tobacco's fault. What a disappointment. I'm not patient, as I ought to be. If only quitting would clear up my character issues as well. But alas, that's another, even more difficult project, and it requires a different kind of support group.
Ninereasons - Day 13
'crackup' 'crackup' 'crackup' 'crackup'
I resemble those statements!
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the good feelings come in cycles.
i think it was around day 24 or so that sucked balls. then again around day 50ish.
I believe that. Emotions come and go. In a certain range, ups and downs are normal.
But, every time I started chewing again after giving my body a rest between beatings, it was because I told myself that it would make me feel a little better; and nicotine does have its payoff. But what it gives to you by the penny, it takes from you by the pound. After a while you forget what it feels like to feel good.
Today I have one of those days that would be frankly impossible while I'm using. I feel joy. Tomorrow will be different; and that's why it's a matter of one day at a time.
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the good feelings come in cycles.
i think it was around day 24 or so that sucked balls. then again around day 50ish.
I believe that. Emotions come and go. In a certain range, ups and downs are normal.
But, every time I started chewing again after giving my body a rest between beatings, it was because I told myself that it would make me feel a little better; and nicotine does have its payoff. But what it gives to you by the penny, it takes from you by the pound. After a while you forget what it feels like to feel good.
Today I have one of those days that would be frankly impossible while I'm using. I feel joy. Tomorrow will be different; and that's why it's a matter of one day at a time.
like a bad penny I'm back again!!!
I just gotta ask what nicotines payoff is. I would disagree with you on this, and venture to say that any percieved payoff is just illusion.
I'm digging your thought process as you weave your way thru the mental games, keep at it.
sM
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The mental games for me were by far the worst. I have it plastered around the site in many places. Keep working through this !! It really does get better.
Around day 250 I had a real shift in my quit and started having more good days than bad. There are countless benefits you have not even dreamed of yet.
IT IS WORTH IT
Stay quit
Greg
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the good feelings come in cycles.
i think it was around day 24 or so that sucked balls. then again around day 50ish.
I believe that. Emotions come and go. In a certain range, ups and downs are normal.
But, every time I started chewing again after giving my body a rest between beatings, it was because I told myself that it would make me feel a little better; and nicotine does have its payoff. But what it gives to you by the penny, it takes from you by the pound. After a while you forget what it feels like to feel good.
Today I have one of those days that would be frankly impossible while I'm using. I feel joy. Tomorrow will be different; and that's why it's a matter of one day at a time.
like a bad penny I'm back again!!!
I just gotta ask what nicotines payoff is. I would disagree with you on this, and venture to say that any percieved payoff is just illusion.
I'm digging your thought process as you weave your way thru the mental games, keep at it.
sM
I wish I could agree that it has literally zero payoff. But I agree completely that it's illusion.
Nicotine is like any grifter, pusher, or pimp. Everything it gives you is wrapped around a hook. It plays on your pride, your illusions of control, until it owns you.
Nic: I'll give you all the buzz I've got, for just one dip - you throw the can away.
Sucker: I give you two percent of my day and I keep 98% control?
Nic: Does that sound unfair? I can recount ... Sucker: DONE!
--- 2 weeks later
Nic: You give me one more day, and you can quit tomorrow.
Sucker: I chew one more day, and you'll promise tomorrow will come? Done!
--- 2 months later
Sucker: I feel like crap this morning, Nic.
Nic: You're not dipping enough, moron.
--- 6 months later
Sucker: I feel like I'm going to die, Nic. I need a break
Nic: Shut the fck up and suck on this, bitch.
Ninereasons - Day 14
(I apologize for the vulgarity. It was in the interest of art.)
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the good feelings come in cycles.
i think it was around day 24 or so that sucked balls. then again around day 50ish.
I believe that. Emotions come and go. In a certain range, ups and downs are normal.
But, every time I started chewing again after giving my body a rest between beatings, it was because I told myself that it would make me feel a little better; and nicotine does have its payoff. But what it gives to you by the penny, it takes from you by the pound. After a while you forget what it feels like to feel good.
Today I have one of those days that would be frankly impossible while I'm using. I feel joy. Tomorrow will be different; and that's why it's a matter of one day at a time.
like a bad penny I'm back again!!!
I just gotta ask what nicotines payoff is. I would disagree with you on this, and venture to say that any percieved payoff is just illusion.
I'm digging your thought process as you weave your way thru the mental games, keep at it.
sM
I wish I could agree that it has literally zero payoff. But I agree completely that it's illusion.
Nicotine is like any grifter, pusher, or pimp. Everything it gives you is wrapped around a hook. It plays on your pride, your illusions of control, until it owns you.
Nic: I'll give you all the buzz I've got, for just one dip - you throw the can away.
Sucker: I give you two percent of my day and I keep 98% control?
Nic: Does that sound unfair? I can recount ... Sucker: DONE!
--- 2 weeks later
Nic: You give me one more day, and you can quit tomorrow.
Sucker: I chew one more day, and you'll promise tomorrow will come? Done!
--- 2 months later
Sucker: I feel like crap this morning, Nic.
Nic: You're not dipping enough, moron.
--- 6 months later
Sucker: I feel like I'm going to die, Nic. I need a break
Nic: Shut the fck up and suck on this, bitch.
Ninereasons - Day 14
(I apologize for the vulgarity. It was in the interest of art.)
nice. well, not really. accurate?
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the good feelings come in cycles.
i think it was around day 24 or so that sucked balls. then again around day 50ish.
I believe that. Emotions come and go. In a certain range, ups and downs are normal.
But, every time I started chewing again after giving my body a rest between beatings, it was because I told myself that it would make me feel a little better; and nicotine does have its payoff. But what it gives to you by the penny, it takes from you by the pound. After a while you forget what it feels like to feel good.
Today I have one of those days that would be frankly impossible while I'm using. I feel joy. Tomorrow will be different; and that's why it's a matter of one day at a time.
like a bad penny I'm back again!!!
I just gotta ask what nicotines payoff is. I would disagree with you on this, and venture to say that any percieved payoff is just illusion.
I'm digging your thought process as you weave your way thru the mental games, keep at it.
sM
I wish I could agree that it has literally zero payoff. But I agree completely that it's illusion.
Nicotine is like any grifter, pusher, or pimp. Everything it gives you is wrapped around a hook. It plays on your pride, your illusions of control, until it owns you.
Nic: I'll give you all the buzz I've got, for just one dip - you throw the can away.
Sucker: I give you two percent of my day and I keep 98% control?
Nic: Does that sound unfair? I can recount ... Sucker: DONE!
--- 2 weeks later
Nic: You give me one more day, and you can quit tomorrow.
Sucker: I chew one more day, and you'll promise tomorrow will come? Done!
--- 2 months later
Sucker: I feel like crap this morning, Nic.
Nic: You're not dipping enough, moron.
--- 6 months later
Sucker: I feel like I'm going to die, Nic. I need a break
Nic: Shut the fck up and suck on this, bitch.
Ninereasons - Day 14
(I apologize for the vulgarity. It was in the interest of art.)
nice. well, not really. accurate?
I think I could have made the same point without the dirty pictures.
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the good feelings come in cycles.
i think it was around day 24 or so that sucked balls. then again around day 50ish.
I believe that. Emotions come and go. In a certain range, ups and downs are normal.
But, every time I started chewing again after giving my body a rest between beatings, it was because I told myself that it would make me feel a little better; and nicotine does have its payoff. But what it gives to you by the penny, it takes from you by the pound. After a while you forget what it feels like to feel good.
Today I have one of those days that would be frankly impossible while I'm using. I feel joy. Tomorrow will be different; and that's why it's a matter of one day at a time.
like a bad penny I'm back again!!!
I just gotta ask what nicotines payoff is. I would disagree with you on this, and venture to say that any percieved payoff is just illusion.
I'm digging your thought process as you weave your way thru the mental games, keep at it.
sM
I wish I could agree that it has literally zero payoff. But I agree completely that it's illusion.
Nicotine is like any grifter, pusher, or pimp. Everything it gives you is wrapped around a hook. It plays on your pride, your illusions of control, until it owns you.
Nic: I'll give you all the buzz I've got, for just one dip - you throw the can away.
Sucker: I give you two percent of my day and I keep 98% control?
Nic: Does that sound unfair? I can recount ... Sucker: DONE!
--- 2 weeks later
Nic: You give me one more day, and you can quit tomorrow.
Sucker: I chew one more day, and you'll promise tomorrow will come? Done!
--- 2 months later
Sucker: I feel like crap this morning, Nic.
Nic: You're not dipping enough, moron.
--- 6 months later
Sucker: I feel like I'm going to die, Nic. I need a break
Nic: Shut the fck up and suck on this, bitch.
Ninereasons - Day 14
(I apologize for the vulgarity. It was in the interest of art.)
nice. well, not really. accurate?
I think I could have made the same point without the dirty pictures.
Nah, a picture is worth a thousand words. That would make for a very long post.
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the good feelings come in cycles.
i think it was around day 24 or so that sucked balls. then again around day 50ish.
I believe that. Emotions come and go. In a certain range, ups and downs are normal.
But, every time I started chewing again after giving my body a rest between beatings, it was because I told myself that it would make me feel a little better; and nicotine does have its payoff. But what it gives to you by the penny, it takes from you by the pound. After a while you forget what it feels like to feel good.
Today I have one of those days that would be frankly impossible while I'm using. I feel joy. Tomorrow will be different; and that's why it's a matter of one day at a time.
like a bad penny I'm back again!!!
I just gotta ask what nicotines payoff is. I would disagree with you on this, and venture to say that any percieved payoff is just illusion.
I'm digging your thought process as you weave your way thru the mental games, keep at it.
sM
Greg5280 has cited some very helpful facts about nicotine's deceptive "payoff". I'm sure it's not new to you though.
Nicotine is Highly Addictive
The nicotine in tobacco moves into the bloodstream and up to the users brain within 7 to 10 seconds. Once there, nicotine triggers a number of chemical reactions that create temporary feelings of pleasure for the user, but these sensations are short-lived, subsiding within minutes. As the nicotine level drops in the blood, users feel edgy and agitated -- the start of nicotine withdrawal. So, in order to relieve the discomforts, addicts feed there addictions...and then again..and again. And so it goes -- the vicious cycle of nicotine addiction. One cigarette, one dip, one chew is never enough, a fact that every addict knows all too well.
In order to quit successfully for the long term, it helps to understand the nature of nicotine addiction and what it takes to break free of it. In fact, users are often surprised to learn that they are addicted to a substance in the first place. Many of us believed that smoking, dipping, chewing was just a bad habit; something we could stop easily when we decided it was time. Sound Familiar ?
Let's take a look at how nicotine affects brain chemistry and begin the educational process that will help us battle this addiction to the ground, once and for all.
Nicotine and Adrenaline
When a person receives nicotine, the nicotine is rapidly absorbed into the blood and starts affecting the brain within 10 seconds. Nicotine is a natural herbicide, your body knows it should not be there and the result is the release of adrenaline, the "fight or flight" hormone. Physically, adrenaline increases a person's heart rate, blood pressure and restricts blood flow to the heart muscle. When this occurs, the user experiences rapid, shallow breathing and the feeling of a racing heartbeat. Adrenaline also instructs the body to dump excess glucose into the bloodstream.
Nicotine and Insulin
Nicotine also inhibits the release of insulin from the pancreas, a hormone that is responsible for removing excess sugar from a person's blood. This leaves the user in a slightly hyperglycemic condition, meaning he/she has more sugar in their blood than is normal. High blood sugar acts as an appetite suppressant, which may be why users think their habits reduce hunger.
Nicotine and Dopamine
Nicotine activates the same reward pathways in the brain that other drugs of abuse such as cocaine or amphetamines do, although to a lesser degree. Research has shown that nicotine increases the level of dopamine in the brain, a neurotransmitter that is responsible for feelings of pleasure and well-being. The acute effects of nicotine wear off within minutes, so people must continue dosing themselves frequently throughout the day to maintain the pleasurable effects of nicotine and to prevent withdrawal symptoms.
Recovery from nicotine addiction is a process of gradual release over time.
It doesn't happen overnight, but with perseverance, freedom from nicotine addiction is doable, and will pay you back with benefits that go well beyond what you can probably imagine. Don't offer up another day of your precious life to tobacco - stop today.
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Dip dream
In roll call I sometimes read the comment "had dip dream". I figured I knew just what this meant, because I've often dreamt of chew. I used to dream of new flavor discoveries. Some time back, I started occasionally adding various extracts to whatever it was I was chewing - like spearmint, vanilla, orange, molasses - and it assisted me in my sick quest to persistently poison myself, that I found an entertaining way to do this. Sounds a little fluffy now that I read this admission, but anyway, that's how it was.
Last night I had a whole different kind of "dip dream". In fits of wakefulness the story began with me at work, logged into this site, blabbering away the way I have been, the way I'm doing here - yack, yack, yack - when I opened my drawer to get something and there was a can of snuff in there. Without even a second thought, I opened that up and took a big pinch. In my mouth it turned into a wad of Redman soaked in peppermint - my favorite.
Yack, yack, yack - and suddenly I realized what I was doing. I felt a rush of horror go through me, and I snapped awake ("what was that all about?"), but when I drifted away again I was back in the dream. It's blurry and I'm filling in gaps - the way you do when you try to remember a dream - but what happened next is that you all found out what I had done - something about tracing my IP to the main trunk and re-routing my servers (I've been watching 24 on Netflix). I was literally terrified. I got threatening phone calls, prayer mail and hate mail. They told my family and church what I'd done. It was in the news. I don't remember any men with pointy white hoods gathering on my lawn, but they would have fit right in - you get the idea.
Bits and pieces like that remain with me. One scene I remember vividly. A big Marine showed up on my doorstep. I'm 6'3" and 230 but he dwarfed me. I knew right away that he was from the forum, and I was shaking when he asked for Ninereasons. When I confirmed my identity, this big guy burst into a storm of obscenities, his face so red that he was in tears, shouting so loud in my face that my hair blew back, demanding how the F* could you F*n cave like that, you F*n F*.
The difference, in real life, between secretly quitting and quitting with accountability, is affecting even my dreams. I've had weird and vivid dreams about tobacco before: I dreamed once that I vomited up all the chew I'd ever swallowed, in big piles of black powder, which a crew of men in hazmat suits shoveled into trucks to package as Copenhagen. But I've never had a dream about chewing tobacco that actually gave me hope that I have the right stuff to be free of it, until now.
I'm hoping that in my next dip dream, if I must have one, I have the sense to throw the stuff away. I'm sure I'd sleep better if I did.
Ninereasons - Day 15
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wait until you have the one where your teeth fall out. that will fuck up your world.
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wait until you have the one where your teeth fall out. that will fuck up your world.
Brother, I don't need to fall asleep to have that nightmare.
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Dip dreams are part of the healing process. The bitch knows you have a firm choke hold on her while you are awake so she is messing with you while you sleep.
They can rattle you that is for sure, I have had a few and all of them are disturbing but they are just dreams.
Keep fighting...
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You've been quit for some time, ninereasons - what's it been? a year? more? But you're reading back over your old stuff here. Are you trying to recover that old determination to stay quit? Those first four days have faded in your memory, the sting and confusion of the first couple of weeks of head games is forgotten. Are you having a hard time relating to your old passion to finally be rid of tobacco once and for all?
You really were unhappy when you were chewing. I plead with you to remember that. You saw your life coming to a close. Tobacco had dimmed your eyesight, scarred your esophagus, rotted your teeth, robbed you of energy, dulled your passions, diminished your dignity and it never gave you anything except an irrational desire to maintain the addiction. You're only one dip away from going back to all that.
What I'm writing here is my best shot at talking you off the ledge. I hope it will be enough. I hope you won't give yourself permission to pull the shades closed on your conscience, and that you won't stop being strong enough to help others break free: your son, your brother. It's embarrassing, isn't it, that you put all of this out in front of strangers this way? Remember - that's how much you wanted this once.
In fact, I'll just tell you now: I'm not ever going to hand this quit over to my future self. I have what I need to beat this today, and you never will. "Stopping" is something you tried in the past. You hoped you wouldn't pick it up again in the future. That's where you got it wrong. Quitting is something you can only do today.
Ninereasons - Day 16 of talking to myself.
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Well written !! I look to my page often, keep going it will serve you well later on.
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Nine, you're doing great man! Proud to be quit with you!
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Nine, you're doing great man! Proud to be quit with you!
Second that, I look on the quit path behind me and I see this guy coming and it inspires me to keep going!
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Nine, you're doing great man! Proud to be quit with you!
Second that, I look on the quit path behind me and I see this guy coming and it inspires me to keep going!
The storm of crap I would deserve if I let you down is impossible to contemplate. Keep piling it on, brothers.
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The storm of crap I would deserve if I let you down is impossible to contemplate.
Isn't it interesting how the fear of letting down strangers will do more to help you beat down your addiction than any person in your real life?
Drink the Kool-aide people...it works.
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The storm of crap I would deserve if I let you down is impossible to contemplate.
Isn't it interesting how the fear of letting down strangers will do more to help you beat down your addiction than any person in your real life?
Drink the Kool-aide people...it works.
Ouch, loot. That slap on the back hurt like hell.
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And on the seventh day Nine created six.
Looking for it!
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And on the seventh day Nine created six.
Looking for it!
Three Lord's days without nicotine of any kind. I owe that to how much help I've received from the resources on this site. Some of the profane hardasses that post here won't like the thought, but they are instruments of God's grace and I'm thankful for them.
Ninereasons Day 20, third day six
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I do not feel great today.
I cannot run faster, jump higher or recite pi to the 50th place. My eyes are ringed with red and my lips are slightly cracked - no doubt from eating too much salt. I can hardly stay awake at my desk, which is the result of a couple of nights' restlessness.
But that's all good. I had already learned from other quitters that I should expect this sort of thing, and so everything is going according to plan. Feeling good is something that might happen tomorrow, but in any case quitting happens today.
And I feel great about that.
Ninereasons - Day 21 of staying on top of all the ups and downs
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I do not feel great today.
I cannot run faster, jump higher or recite pi to the 50th place. My eyes are ringed with red and my lips are slightly cracked - no doubt from eating too much salt. I can hardly stay awake at my desk, which is the result of a couple of nights' restlessness.
But that's all good. I had already learned from other quitters that I should expect this sort of thing, and so everything is going according to plan. Feeling good is something that might happen tomorrow, but in any case quitting happens today.
And I feel great about that.
Ninereasons - Day 21 of staying on top of all the ups and downs
Keep going. I will get better.
-
I do not feel great today.Â
I cannot run faster, jump higher or recite pi to the 50th place. My eyes are ringed with red and my lips are slightly cracked - no doubt from eating too much salt. I can hardly stay awake at my desk, which is the result of a couple of nights' restlessness.
But that's all good. I had already learned from other quitters that I should expect this sort of thing, and so everything is going according to plan. Feeling good is something that might happen tomorrow, but in any case quitting happens today.Â
And I feel great about that.
Ninereasons - Day 21 of staying on top of all the ups and downs
Keep going. I will get better.
Keep your head down and focus on the next step you take if that is all you can do. The time for puffing out your chest will come....not without a hefty price tho.
Hang in there little bro. All the hell will be worth it.
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I do not feel great today.Â
I cannot run faster, jump higher or recite pi to the 50th place.  My eyes are ringed with red and my lips are slightly cracked - no doubt from eating too much salt. I can hardly stay awake at my desk, which is the result of a couple of nights' restlessness.
But that's all good. I had already learned from other quitters that I should expect this sort of thing, and so everything is going according to plan. Feeling good is something that might happen tomorrow, but in any case quitting happens today.Â
And I feel great about that.
Ninereasons - Day 21 of staying on top of all the ups and downs
Keep going. I will get better.
Keep your head down and focus on the next step you take if that is all you can do. The time for puffing out your chest will come....not without a hefty price tho.
Hang in there little bro. All the hell will be worth it.
Early on in my quit I felt horrible . . . . just as you describe. Now, at Day 134, I feel better than I have in years.
Bottom Line: Stay the course . . . .
You can do it!
And it WILL get better!
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Weird times, these past few days. I've had several moments when my heart beats fast, and I feel like I'm going in and out of focus, or like the world is wobbly.
But the quit is still a bright and steady light ahead of me. No looking back.
Ninereasons Day 23 of getting used to normal
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Weird times, these past few days. I've had several moments when my heart beats fast, and I feel like I'm going in and out of focus, or like the world is wobbly.
But the quit is still a bright and steady light ahead of me. No looking back.
Ninereasons Day 23 of getting used to normal
I'm with you Nine...past couple days for me have felt like I was re-entering the fog that I felt for the first 3 days...No craves shockingly, just mild dizziness. I've been going heavy on the seeds, so you might be on to something with the salt works.
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Weird times, these past few days. I've had several moments when my heart beats fast, and I feel like I'm going in and out of focus, or like the world is wobbly.
But the quit is still a bright and steady light ahead of me. No looking back.
Ninereasons Day 23 of getting used to normal
All part of the battle my brothers. These things will come and go over the weeks. Each time it gets a bit better. Trust me though, you have no idea how much better things get. I am by no means a vet. I am brand new to the HOF. Not far ahead of you guys. I'm not going to lie and say there are no craves at 102 days. But they are few and far between and pretty easy to beat. Just keep at it heroes! Stay the course, better days are very close. It is soooooooo worth it!
-
Weird times, these past few days. I've had several moments when my heart beats fast, and I feel like I'm going in and out of focus, or like the world is wobbly.
But the quit is still a bright and steady light ahead of me. No looking back.
Ninereasons Day 23 of getting used to normal
23 days... Your Huge. Most people can't quit for one day, let alone 23.
Keep the quit badass.
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Weird times, these past few days. I've had several moments when my heart beats fast, and I feel like I'm going in and out of focus, or like the world is wobbly.Â
But the quit is still a bright and steady light ahead of me. No looking back.
Ninereasons Day 23 of getting used to normal
All part of the battle my brothers. These things will come and go over the weeks. Each time it gets a bit better. Trust me though, you have no idea how much better things get. I am by no means a vet. I am brand new to the HOF. Not far ahead of you guys. I'm not going to lie and say there are no craves at 102 days. But they are few and far between and pretty easy to beat. Just keep at it heroes! Stay the course, better days are very close. It is soooooooo worth it!
Congratulations on reaching the big milestone, jcook. It makes it seem a lot closer for us when you guys stay to cheer us on after you've become famous. Thanks for that.
-
Weird times, these past few days. I've had several moments when my heart beats fast, and I feel like I'm going in and out of focus, or like the world is wobbly.Â
But the quit is still a bright and steady light ahead of me. No looking back.
Ninereasons Day 23 of getting used to normal
All part of the battle my brothers. These things will come and go over the weeks. Each time it gets a bit better. Trust me though, you have no idea how much better things get. I am by no means a vet. I am brand new to the HOF. Not far ahead of you guys. I'm not going to lie and say there are no craves at 102 days. But they are few and far between and pretty easy to beat. Just keep at it heroes! Stay the course, better days are very close. It is soooooooo worth it!
Congratulations on reaching the big milestone, jcook. It makes it seem a lot closer for us when you guys stay to cheer us on after you've become famous. Thanks for that.
I had the same thing nine, actually had a panic attack , thought I was having a heart attack and drove my dumb ass to the hospital. Nicotine wreaks all sorts of havoc on the mind and the body. Your body is still recovering. I ended up talking to the family doc and getting some anti anxiety meds in the beginning. One thing that won't help is caving in. Just take it slow, stay in your fox hole and reach for help if you need it.
-
Weird times, these past few days. I've had several moments when my heart beats fast, and I feel like I'm going in and out of focus, or like the world is wobbly.Â
But the quit is still a bright and steady light ahead of me. No looking back.
Ninereasons Day 23 of getting used to normal
All part of the battle my brothers. These things will come and go over the weeks. Each time it gets a bit better. Trust me though, you have no idea how much better things get. I am by no means a vet. I am brand new to the HOF. Not far ahead of you guys. I'm not going to lie and say there are no craves at 102 days. But they are few and far between and pretty easy to beat. Just keep at it heroes! Stay the course, better days are very close. It is soooooooo worth it!
Congratulations on reaching the big milestone, jcook. It makes it seem a lot closer for us when you guys stay to cheer us on after you've become famous. Thanks for that.
I had the same thing nine, actually had a panic attack , thought I was having a heart attack and drove my dumb ass to the hospital. Nicotine wreaks all sorts of havoc on the mind and the body. Your body is still recovering. I ended up talking to the family doc and getting some anti anxiety meds in the beginning. One thing that won't help is caving in. Just take it slow, stay in your fox hole and reach for help if you need it.
The fake stuff, gum, seeds, sweets and salt drops so completely handle my craving at this point in my quit that the thought of caving is rare and weak. But I'm doing a poor job of watching what I'm compulsively ingesting to keep cravings few and short I'm out of whack.
If this strange "buzzed", "unreal" feeling doesn't go away, I should probably get my blood pressure checked or something so that the doctor can tell me to cut down on sugar and salt.
You're right - this also is all part of recovering from the damage of decades of nicotine abuse, and keeping that in mind keeps me off the ledge.
-
Weird times, these past few days. I've had several moments when my heart beats fast, and I feel like I'm going in and out of focus, or like the world is wobbly.Â
But the quit is still a bright and steady light ahead of me. No looking back.
Ninereasons Day 23 of getting used to normal
All part of the battle my brothers. These things will come and go over the weeks. Each time it gets a bit better. Trust me though, you have no idea how much better things get. I am by no means a vet. I am brand new to the HOF. Not far ahead of you guys. I'm not going to lie and say there are no craves at 102 days. But they are few and far between and pretty easy to beat. Just keep at it heroes! Stay the course, better days are very close. It is soooooooo worth it!
Congratulations on reaching the big milestone, jcook. It makes it seem a lot closer for us when you guys stay to cheer us on after you've become famous. Thanks for that.
I had the same thing nine, actually had a panic attack , thought I was having a heart attack and drove my dumb ass to the hospital. Nicotine wreaks all sorts of havoc on the mind and the body. Your body is still recovering. I ended up talking to the family doc and getting some anti anxiety meds in the beginning. One thing that won't help is caving in. Just take it slow, stay in your fox hole and reach for help if you need it.
The fake stuff, gum, seeds, sweets and salt drops so completely handle my craving at this point in my quit that the thought of caving is rare and weak. But I'm doing a poor job of watching what I'm compulsively ingesting to keep cravings few and short I'm out of whack.
If this strange "buzzed", "unreal" feeling doesn't go away, I should probably get my blood pressure checked or something so that the doctor can tell me to cut down on sugar and salt.
You're right - this also is all part of recovering from the damage of decades of nicotine abuse, and keeping that in mind keeps me off the ledge.
That 'fog' is something we all experience. No problem. Sounds weird, but I looked at it like a scientist from the outside in and that helped because now it was kinda cool and interesting instead of being concerning. It's not concerning, nine. It's totally normal. It will go away.
-
Weird times, these past few days. I've had several moments when my heart beats fast, and I feel like I'm going in and out of focus, or like the world is wobbly.Â
But the quit is still a bright and steady light ahead of me. No looking back.
Ninereasons Day 23 of getting used to normal
All part of the battle my brothers. These things will come and go over the weeks. Each time it gets a bit better. Trust me though, you have no idea how much better things get. I am by no means a vet. I am brand new to the HOF. Not far ahead of you guys. I'm not going to lie and say there are no craves at 102 days. But they are few and far between and pretty easy to beat. Just keep at it heroes! Stay the course, better days are very close. It is soooooooo worth it!
Congratulations on reaching the big milestone, jcook. It makes it seem a lot closer for us when you guys stay to cheer us on after you've become famous. Thanks for that.
I had the same thing nine, actually had a panic attack , thought I was having a heart attack and drove my dumb ass to the hospital. Nicotine wreaks all sorts of havoc on the mind and the body. Your body is still recovering. I ended up talking to the family doc and getting some anti anxiety meds in the beginning. One thing that won't help is caving in. Just take it slow, stay in your fox hole and reach for help if you need it.
The fake stuff, gum, seeds, sweets and salt drops so completely handle my craving at this point in my quit that the thought of caving is rare and weak. But I'm doing a poor job of watching what I'm compulsively ingesting to keep cravings few and short I'm out of whack.
If this strange "buzzed", "unreal" feeling doesn't go away, I should probably get my blood pressure checked or something so that the doctor can tell me to cut down on sugar and salt.
You're right - this also is all part of recovering from the damage of decades of nicotine abuse, and keeping that in mind keeps me off the ledge.
That 'fog' is something we all experience. No problem. Sounds weird, but I looked at it like a scientist from the outside in and that helped because now it was kinda cool and interesting instead of being concerning. It's not concerning, nine. It's totally normal. It will go away.
I had one kind of fog earlier. This is different. A different phase of fog. :blink:
But I'm confident it will go away.
-
Weird times, these past few days. I've had several moments when my heart beats fast, and I feel like I'm going in and out of focus, or like the world is wobbly.Â
But the quit is still a bright and steady light ahead of me. No looking back.
Ninereasons Day 23 of getting used to normal
All part of the battle my brothers. These things will come and go over the weeks. Each time it gets a bit better. Trust me though, you have no idea how much better things get. I am by no means a vet. I am brand new to the HOF. Not far ahead of you guys. I'm not going to lie and say there are no craves at 102 days. But they are few and far between and pretty easy to beat. Just keep at it heroes! Stay the course, better days are very close. It is soooooooo worth it!
Congratulations on reaching the big milestone, jcook. It makes it seem a lot closer for us when you guys stay to cheer us on after you've become famous. Thanks for that.
I had the same thing nine, actually had a panic attack , thought I was having a heart attack and drove my dumb ass to the hospital. Nicotine wreaks all sorts of havoc on the mind and the body. Your body is still recovering. I ended up talking to the family doc and getting some anti anxiety meds in the beginning. One thing that won't help is caving in. Just take it slow, stay in your fox hole and reach for help if you need it.
The fake stuff, gum, seeds, sweets and salt drops so completely handle my craving at this point in my quit that the thought of caving is rare and weak. But I'm doing a poor job of watching what I'm compulsively ingesting to keep cravings few and short I'm out of whack.
If this strange "buzzed", "unreal" feeling doesn't go away, I should probably get my blood pressure checked or something so that the doctor can tell me to cut down on sugar and salt.
You're right - this also is all part of recovering from the damage of decades of nicotine abuse, and keeping that in mind keeps me off the ledge.
That 'fog' is something we all experience. No problem. Sounds weird, but I looked at it like a scientist from the outside in and that helped because now it was kinda cool and interesting instead of being concerning. It's not concerning, nine. It's totally normal. It will go away.
I had one kind of fog earlier. This is different. A different phase of fog. :blink:
But I'm confident it will go away.
Explain different.
-
Weird times, these past few days. I've had several moments when my heart beats fast, and I feel like I'm going in and out of focus, or like the world is wobbly.Â
But the quit is still a bright and steady light ahead of me. No looking back.
Ninereasons Day 23 of getting used to normal
All part of the battle my brothers. These things will come and go over the weeks. Each time it gets a bit better. Trust me though, you have no idea how much better things get. I am by no means a vet. I am brand new to the HOF. Not far ahead of you guys. I'm not going to lie and say there are no craves at 102 days. But they are few and far between and pretty easy to beat. Just keep at it heroes! Stay the course, better days are very close. It is soooooooo worth it!
Congratulations on reaching the big milestone, jcook. It makes it seem a lot closer for us when you guys stay to cheer us on after you've become famous. Thanks for that.
I had the same thing nine, actually had a panic attack , thought I was having a heart attack and drove my dumb ass to the hospital. Nicotine wreaks all sorts of havoc on the mind and the body. Your body is still recovering. I ended up talking to the family doc and getting some anti anxiety meds in the beginning. One thing that won't help is caving in. Just take it slow, stay in your fox hole and reach for help if you need it.
The fake stuff, gum, seeds, sweets and salt drops so completely handle my craving at this point in my quit that the thought of caving is rare and weak. But I'm doing a poor job of watching what I'm compulsively ingesting to keep cravings few and short I'm out of whack.
If this strange "buzzed", "unreal" feeling doesn't go away, I should probably get my blood pressure checked or something so that the doctor can tell me to cut down on sugar and salt.
You're right - this also is all part of recovering from the damage of decades of nicotine abuse, and keeping that in mind keeps me off the ledge.
That 'fog' is something we all experience. No problem. Sounds weird, but I looked at it like a scientist from the outside in and that helped because now it was kinda cool and interesting instead of being concerning. It's not concerning, nine. It's totally normal. It will go away.
I had one kind of fog earlier. This is different. A different phase of fog. :blink:
But I'm confident it will go away.
Explain different.
For months it was like a light weed high. Or how you get a small headrush when you stand up and yawn?
This went on for many many months. It was a weird feeling indeed.
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Weird times, these past few days. I've had several moments when my heart beats fast, and I feel like I'm going in and out of focus, or like the world is wobbly.Â
But the quit is still a bright and steady light ahead of me. No looking back.
Ninereasons Day 23 of getting used to normal
All part of the battle my brothers. These things will come and go over the weeks. Each time it gets a bit better. Trust me though, you have no idea how much better things get. I am by no means a vet. I am brand new to the HOF. Not far ahead of you guys. I'm not going to lie and say there are no craves at 102 days. But they are few and far between and pretty easy to beat. Just keep at it heroes! Stay the course, better days are very close. It is soooooooo worth it!
Congratulations on reaching the big milestone, jcook. It makes it seem a lot closer for us when you guys stay to cheer us on after you've become famous. Thanks for that.
I had the same thing nine, actually had a panic attack , thought I was having a heart attack and drove my dumb ass to the hospital. Nicotine wreaks all sorts of havoc on the mind and the body. Your body is still recovering. I ended up talking to the family doc and getting some anti anxiety meds in the beginning. One thing that won't help is caving in. Just take it slow, stay in your fox hole and reach for help if you need it.
The fake stuff, gum, seeds, sweets and salt drops so completely handle my craving at this point in my quit that the thought of caving is rare and weak. But I'm doing a poor job of watching what I'm compulsively ingesting to keep cravings few and short I'm out of whack.
If this strange "buzzed", "unreal" feeling doesn't go away, I should probably get my blood pressure checked or something so that the doctor can tell me to cut down on sugar and salt.
You're right - this also is all part of recovering from the damage of decades of nicotine abuse, and keeping that in mind keeps me off the ledge.
That 'fog' is something we all experience. No problem. Sounds weird, but I looked at it like a scientist from the outside in and that helped because now it was kinda cool and interesting instead of being concerning. It's not concerning, nine. It's totally normal. It will go away.
I had one kind of fog earlier. This is different. A different phase of fog. :blink:
But I'm confident it will go away.
Explain different.
For months it was like a light weed high. Or how you get a small headrush when you stand up and yawn?
This went on for many many months. It was a weird feeling indeed.
Weed high...that's a good descriptor. I always felt a dull but steady head buzz....like you might feel after drinking 3 pots of Starbucks dark roast.......with the added feeling of being about 2" above and slightly left of my body.
Yeah...that last part is weird. :blink:
-
Weird times, these past few days. I've had several moments when my heart beats fast, and I feel like I'm going in and out of focus, or like the world is wobbly.Â
But the quit is still a bright and steady light ahead of me. No looking back.
Ninereasons Day 23 of getting used to normal
All part of the battle my brothers. These things will come and go over the weeks. Each time it gets a bit better. Trust me though, you have no idea how much better things get. I am by no means a vet. I am brand new to the HOF. Not far ahead of you guys. I'm not going to lie and say there are no craves at 102 days. But they are few and far between and pretty easy to beat. Just keep at it heroes! Stay the course, better days are very close. It is soooooooo worth it!
Congratulations on reaching the big milestone, jcook. It makes it seem a lot closer for us when you guys stay to cheer us on after you've become famous. Thanks for that.
I had the same thing nine, actually had a panic attack , thought I was having a heart attack and drove my dumb ass to the hospital. Nicotine wreaks all sorts of havoc on the mind and the body. Your body is still recovering. I ended up talking to the family doc and getting some anti anxiety meds in the beginning. One thing that won't help is caving in. Just take it slow, stay in your fox hole and reach for help if you need it.
The fake stuff, gum, seeds, sweets and salt drops so completely handle my craving at this point in my quit that the thought of caving is rare and weak. But I'm doing a poor job of watching what I'm compulsively ingesting to keep cravings few and short I'm out of whack.
If this strange "buzzed", "unreal" feeling doesn't go away, I should probably get my blood pressure checked or something so that the doctor can tell me to cut down on sugar and salt.
You're right - this also is all part of recovering from the damage of decades of nicotine abuse, and keeping that in mind keeps me off the ledge.
That 'fog' is something we all experience. No problem. Sounds weird, but I looked at it like a scientist from the outside in and that helped because now it was kinda cool and interesting instead of being concerning. It's not concerning, nine. It's totally normal. It will go away.
I had one kind of fog earlier. This is different. A different phase of fog. :blink:
But I'm confident it will go away.
Explain different.
For months it was like a light weed high. Or how you get a small headrush when you stand up and yawn?
This went on for many many months. It was a weird feeling indeed.
Weed high...that's a good descriptor. I always felt a dull but steady head buzz....like you might feel after drinking 3 pots of Starbucks dark roast.......with the added feeling of being about 2" above and slightly left of my body.
Yeah...that last part is weird. :blink:
curious, me too. I thought I was imagining it for a long time. IT still comes and goes, has to be chemical- maybe adrenaline or cortisol????
-
Weird times, these past few days. I've had several moments when my heart beats fast, and I feel like I'm going in and out of focus, or like the world is wobbly.Â
But the quit is still a bright and steady light ahead of me. No looking back.
Ninereasons Day 23 of getting used to normal
All part of the battle my brothers. These things will come and go over the weeks. Each time it gets a bit better. Trust me though, you have no idea how much better things get. I am by no means a vet. I am brand new to the HOF. Not far ahead of you guys. I'm not going to lie and say there are no craves at 102 days. But they are few and far between and pretty easy to beat. Just keep at it heroes! Stay the course, better days are very close. It is soooooooo worth it!
Congratulations on reaching the big milestone, jcook. It makes it seem a lot closer for us when you guys stay to cheer us on after you've become famous. Thanks for that.
I had the same thing nine, actually had a panic attack , thought I was having a heart attack and drove my dumb ass to the hospital. Nicotine wreaks all sorts of havoc on the mind and the body. Your body is still recovering. I ended up talking to the family doc and getting some anti anxiety meds in the beginning. One thing that won't help is caving in. Just take it slow, stay in your fox hole and reach for help if you need it.
The fake stuff, gum, seeds, sweets and salt drops so completely handle my craving at this point in my quit that the thought of caving is rare and weak. But I'm doing a poor job of watching what I'm compulsively ingesting to keep cravings few and short I'm out of whack.
If this strange "buzzed", "unreal" feeling doesn't go away, I should probably get my blood pressure checked or something so that the doctor can tell me to cut down on sugar and salt.
You're right - this also is all part of recovering from the damage of decades of nicotine abuse, and keeping that in mind keeps me off the ledge.
That 'fog' is something we all experience. No problem. Sounds weird, but I looked at it like a scientist from the outside in and that helped because now it was kinda cool and interesting instead of being concerning. It's not concerning, nine. It's totally normal. It will go away.
I had one kind of fog earlier. This is different. A different phase of fog. :blink:
But I'm confident it will go away.
Explain different.
For months it was like a light weed high. Or how you get a small headrush when you stand up and yawn?
This went on for many many months. It was a weird feeling indeed.
Weed high...that's a good descriptor. I always felt a dull but steady head buzz....like you might feel after drinking 3 pots of Starbucks dark roast.......with the added feeling of being about 2" above and slightly left of my body.
Yeah...that last part is weird. :blink:
curious, me too. I thought I was imagining it for a long time. IT still comes and goes, has to be chemical- maybe adrenaline or cortisol????
That is the best description of it that I have read. I always just chalked it up to my brain re-wiring itself and healing. Regardless, I'll take that feeling over the guilt I felt from still using. Stay in it gentlemen!
-
Weird times, these past few days. I've had several moments when my heart beats fast, and I feel like I'm going in and out of focus, or like the world is wobbly.Â
But the quit is still a bright and steady light ahead of me. No looking back.
Ninereasons Day 23 of getting used to normal
All part of the battle my brothers. These things will come and go over the weeks. Each time it gets a bit better. Trust me though, you have no idea how much better things get. I am by no means a vet. I am brand new to the HOF. Not far ahead of you guys. I'm not going to lie and say there are no craves at 102 days. But they are few and far between and pretty easy to beat. Just keep at it heroes! Stay the course, better days are very close. It is soooooooo worth it!
Congratulations on reaching the big milestone, jcook. It makes it seem a lot closer for us when you guys stay to cheer us on after you've become famous. Thanks for that.
I had the same thing nine, actually had a panic attack , thought I was having a heart attack and drove my dumb ass to the hospital. Nicotine wreaks all sorts of havoc on the mind and the body. Your body is still recovering. I ended up talking to the family doc and getting some anti anxiety meds in the beginning. One thing that won't help is caving in. Just take it slow, stay in your fox hole and reach for help if you need it.
The fake stuff, gum, seeds, sweets and salt drops so completely handle my craving at this point in my quit that the thought of caving is rare and weak. But I'm doing a poor job of watching what I'm compulsively ingesting to keep cravings few and short I'm out of whack.
If this strange "buzzed", "unreal" feeling doesn't go away, I should probably get my blood pressure checked or something so that the doctor can tell me to cut down on sugar and salt.
You're right - this also is all part of recovering from the damage of decades of nicotine abuse, and keeping that in mind keeps me off the ledge.
That 'fog' is something we all experience. No problem. Sounds weird, but I looked at it like a scientist from the outside in and that helped because now it was kinda cool and interesting instead of being concerning. It's not concerning, nine. It's totally normal. It will go away.
I had one kind of fog earlier. This is different. A different phase of fog. :blink:
But I'm confident it will go away.
Explain different.
For months it was like a light weed high. Or how you get a small headrush when you stand up and yawn?
This went on for many many months. It was a weird feeling indeed.
Weed high...that's a good descriptor. I always felt a dull but steady head buzz....like you might feel after drinking 3 pots of Starbucks dark roast.......with the added feeling of being about 2" above and slightly left of my body.
Yeah...that last part is weird. :blink:
curious, me too. I thought I was imagining it for a long time. IT still comes and goes, has to be chemical- maybe adrenaline or cortisol????
That is the best description of it that I have read. I always just chalked it up to my brain re-wiring itself and healing. Regardless, I'll take that feeling over the guilt I felt from still using. Stay in it gentlemen!
This is a great discussion and for the dizziness/fog I have had it for some time. Just in the last week and a half did it almost totally go away? Now I'm on anti-depression/anxiety drugs dizziness is a side affect so it is slightly back as of today (I will take the fog/dizzy feeling over a panic attack any day). If you search some of my old post you will see I have also been dealing with some other health issue (Nothing to bad found yet and not expected to). Over all, I quit around the same time my health issue started so the quitting the Nic bitch amplified my symptoms tenfold (that my story and I'm sticking to it). The doctors found that my thyroid is all out of whack and it takes time to get adjusted. In the mean time I have been scanned and tested for a number of things and due to the stress of quitting and anxiety how ever you deal with it can cause your neck muscle to get tight and you don't even know it. This is where some of my dizziness has come from in my opinion. For me it has been and anxiety and symptom packed ride during an ongoing for my quit but I'm determined to stay quit. My wife says she knows this quit day by day is going to work because she has seen that I have had been scared straight and she can tell the difference from the times I have tried before. Take it from me it does get better to even where I have had days that felt like I could run 100 miles then the next week felt like day 1 again. I also agree with the fact your brain is re-wiring it's self since Nic was our anxiety/comfort in a can it would stand to reason that is why the anxiety meds have a side effect of dizziness listed. Stay strong man and good to quit with everyone today.
KTM640
-
For the weekend I've had less coffee and sweets, and I've been a little more self-conscious about how much salt I'm eating. The buzz hasn't gone away completely, but I think it's not as bad and it's definitely less distracting.
I didn't buy more fake snuff after I ran out. I might buy some, later, but I don't want to. I've only been a couple of days without it, but I feel more quit when there's nothing between my cheek and gum and yet I have no craving.
Ninereasons - Day 28 - Crawl, stand, walk ...
-
Way to go nine. I had the same feeling about the fake...I ran out and just didn't need it.
Congrats on being quit and thanks for all that you do.
-
Day 31
What's the worst thing about quitting? Well - ok - the worst thing is the dread that you might cave; but set that aside. If there's one symptom that can slam you to the mat, which is it?
I hate the insomnia, night-sweats, sleepiness, fog, munchies and dip-cravings. I've had constipation, diarrhea, lethargy and panic-attacks. My muscles ache, my head buzzes, my eyes throb.
The unstable emotions are also annoying - I thought my heart was going to break watching The Fighter with my wife the other night; my chest hurt so much it felt just like I had swallowed a chicken-bone sideways. I don't like being gripped like that. I watched "Epic Rap Battles of History - 2" on YouTube; and, even though it's not my kind of humor, I was laughing so hard I was on the floor gulping for breath. I like a good belly-laugh as much as anyone, but this was maniacal and frankly, unpleasant.
Unpleasant as they are, none of these can make me give chewing a second thought. Yeah, they're no fun, but a bad case of the flu is no fun and it doesn't make me want to go suck on an infected bird or something. I know that nic has caused all these things, and they will become less intense and finally go away over time, so I'm not going to return to the toxin for relief.
Dip-rage on the other hand ... compared to other symptoms of nicotine cessation, dip-rage is all by itself. If all I had to deal with is those other annoyances, I might have quit for good decades ago. But, when I quit, I am literally afraid of myself: very anxious about what I might say, or what I might do. The worst thing is, I'm not sure that it's actually a symptom. Is it the absence of nicotine that makes me feel like I might literally KILL someone - or is that just the kind of person I actually am? Is this something about which no one can tell me, "Trust me, it gets better"?
Anger has the strangest effect on me when I'm not using. When something gets my goat, someone interrupts me when I'm trying to make a point, someone turns into my lane without checking to see if they're past me, someone gets angry with me - it doesn't take a real reason - I suddenly feel as though I'm right back in the heaviest fog of days 1-4. I can not think straight. I have changed into Hulk and me not me. Me become death, crusher of worlds! AAAAAaaaggggHHHH!
I'm trying to keep a sense of humor about it, but in all seriousness, the problem is severe enough that I'm going to have to get real low and ask a psychiatrist about it. I hate talking to those people about their magical $50/pill solutions to life's ups and downs. Anger management classes? Something.
No plan for me to stay quit can exclude dealing with the anger problem. It's the one factor that, in the past, even after a year or more of being quit, has always made me doubt whether staying clean is worth it.
-- edit --
I don't like where I left that. I have to put my other foot down.
My wife begged me once to start chewing again. She didn't say "Please start dipping", instead it was "I'm afraid of you". That person she's afraid of ... I don't want to be that person. That's why this addict always went back. It's a powerful rationalization - capable of overcoming any of my fears of cancer or early death.
I also don't want to use tobacco. I need to be quit. So, to be quit, it needs to be a matter of choosing who I want to be: because that is the ultimate rationalization - does this make sense?
I don't make many promises. I don't trust myself to keep them, if they become numerous. But from now on I'm making one promise to you strangers today, each day. I promise not to use tobacco today. For that to work, I need to want to be a man of my word as much as I want to overcome any issues of anger that in the past I ever imagined tobacco to help me with. Now, in order to be the man I want to be - whether handling anger or keeping my promises - caving is no longer an option; I have to find another way.
At last, the ultimate rationalization is on my team, against nicotine.
-
Day 31
What's the worst thing about quitting? Well - ok - the worst thing is the dread that you might cave; but set that aside. If there's one symptom that can slam you to the mat, which is it?
I hate the insomnia, night-sweats, sleepiness, fog, munchies and dip-cravings. I've had constipation, diarrhea, lethargy and panic-attacks. My muscles ache, my head buzzes, my eyes throb.
The unstable emotions are also annoying - I thought my heart was going to break watching The Fighter with my wife the other night; my chest hurt so much it felt just like I had swallowed a chicken-bone sideways. I don't like being gripped like that. I watched "Epic Rap Battles of History - 2" on YouTube; and, even though it's not my kind of humor, I was laughing so hard I was on the floor gulping for breath. I like a good belly-laugh as much as anyone, but this was maniacal and frankly, unpleasant.
Unpleasant as they are, none of these can make me give chewing a second thought. Yeah, they're no fun, but a bad case of the flu is no fun and it doesn't make me want to go suck on an infected bird or something. I know that nic has caused all these things, and they will become less intense and finally go away over time, so I'm not going to return to the toxin for relief.
Dip-rage on the other hand ... compared to other symptoms of nicotine cessation, dip-rage is all by itself. If all I had to deal with is those other annoyances, I might have quit for good decades ago. But, when I quit, I am literally afraid of myself: very anxious about what I might say, or what I might do. The worst thing is, I'm not sure that it's actually a symptom. Is it the absence of nicotine that makes me feel like I might literally KILL someone - or is that just the kind of person I actually am? Is this something about which no one can tell me, "Trust me, it gets better"?
Anger has the strangest effect on me when I'm not using. When something gets my goat, someone interrupts me when I'm trying to make a point, someone turns into my lane without checking to see if they're past me, someone gets angry with me - it doesn't take a real reason - I suddenly feel as though I'm right back in the heaviest fog of days 1-4. I can not think straight. I have changed into Hulk and me not me. Me become death, crusher of worlds! AAAAAaaaggggHHHH!
I'm trying to keep a sense of humor about it, but in all seriousness, the problem is severe enough that I'm going to have to get real low and ask a psychiatrist about it. I hate talking to those people about their magical $50/pill solutions to life's ups and downs. Anger management classes? Something.
No plan for me to stay quit can exclude dealing with the anger problem. It's the one factor that, in the past, even after a year or more of being quit, has always made me doubt whether staying clean is worth it.
-- edit --
I don't like where I left that. I have to put my other foot down.
My wife begged me once to start chewing again. She didn't say "Please start dipping", instead it was "I'm afraid of you". That person she's afraid of ... I don't want to be that person. That's why this addict always went back. It's a powerful rationalization - capable of overcoming any of my fears of cancer or early death.
I also don't want to use tobacco. I need to be quit. So, to be quit, it needs to be a matter of choosing who I want to be: because that is the ultimate rationalization - does this make sense?
I don't make many promises. I don't trust myself to keep them, if they become numerous. But from now on I'm making one promise to you strangers today, each day. I promise not to use tobacco today. For that to work, I need to want to be a man of my word as much as I want to overcome any issues of anger that in the past I ever imagined tobacco to help me with. Now, in order to be the man I want to be - whether handling anger or keeping my promises - caving is no longer an option; I have to find another way.
At last, the ultimate rationalization is on my team, against nicotine.
Nine,
I cant give you a lengthy reply as I am out the door for work, however I am just going to try to encourage you to hang in there for TODAY and this weekend...Do what you got to do to stay quit, even if it means talking to a professional. There's a reason why they are called doctors, so don't be discouraged.
I'm proud to be quit with you, and I hope you get to feeling better soon!
I'll be glad to exchange #'s with you if you want.
-
Day 31
What's the worst thing about quitting? Well - ok - the worst thing is the dread that you might cave; but set that aside. If there's one symptom that can slam you to the mat, which is it?
I hate the insomnia, night-sweats, sleepiness, fog, munchies and dip-cravings. I've had constipation, diarrhea, lethargy and panic-attacks. My muscles ache, my head buzzes, my eyes throb.Â
The unstable emotions are also annoying - I thought my heart was going to break watching The Fighter with my wife the other night; my chest hurt so much it felt just like I had swallowed a chicken-bone sideways. I don't like being gripped like that. I watched "Epic Rap Battles of History - 2" on YouTube; and, even though it's not my kind of humor, I was laughing so hard I was on the floor gulping for breath. I like a good belly-laugh as much as anyone, but this was maniacal and frankly, unpleasant.
Unpleasant as they are, none of these can make me give chewing a second thought. Yeah, they're no fun, but a bad case of the flu is no fun and it doesn't make me want to go suck on an infected bird or something. I know that nic has caused all these things, and they will become less intense and finally go away over time, so I'm not going to return to the toxin for relief.
Dip-rage on the other hand ... compared to other symptoms of nicotine cessation, dip-rage is all by itself. If all I had to deal with is those other annoyances, I might have quit for good decades ago. But, when I quit, I am literally afraid of myself: very anxious about what I might say, or what I might do. The worst thing is, I'm not sure that it's actually a symptom. Is it the absence of nicotine that makes me feel like I might literally KILL someone - or is that just the kind of person I actually am? Is this something about which no one can tell me, "Trust me, it gets better"?
Anger has the strangest effect on me when I'm not using. When something gets my goat, someone interrupts me when I'm trying to make a point, someone turns into my lane without checking to see if they're past me, someone gets angry with me - it doesn't take a real reason - I suddenly feel as though I'm right back in the heaviest fog of days 1-4. I can not think straight. I have changed into Hulk and me not me. Me become death, crusher of worlds! AAAAAaaaggggHHHH!
I'm trying to keep a sense of humor about it, but in all seriousness, the problem is severe enough that I'm going to have to get real low and ask a psychiatrist about it. I hate talking to those people about their magical $50/pill solutions to life's ups and downs. Anger management classes? Something.Â
No plan for me to stay quit can exclude dealing with the anger problem. It's the one factor that, in the past, even after a year or more of being quit, has always made me doubt whether staying clean is worth it.
-- edit --
I don't like where I left that. I have to put my other foot down.
My wife begged me once to start chewing again. She didn't say "Please start dipping", instead it was "I'm afraid of you". That person she's afraid of ... I don't want to be that person. That's why this addict always went back. It's a powerful rationalization - capable of overcoming any of my fears of cancer or early death.
I also don't want to use tobacco. I need to be quit. So, to be quit, it needs to be a matter of choosing who I want to be: because that is the ultimate rationalization - does this make sense?
I don't make many promises. I don't trust myself to keep them, if they become numerous. But from now on I'm making one promise to you strangers today, each day. I promise not to use tobacco today. For that to work, I need to want to be a man of my word as much as I want to overcome any issues of anger that in the past I ever imagined tobacco to help me with. Now, in order to be the man I want to be - whether handling anger or keeping my promises - caving is no longer an option; I have to find another way. Â
At last, the ultimate rationalization is on my team, against nicotine.
Nine,
I cant give you a lengthy reply as I am out the door for work, however I am just going to try to encourage you to hang in there for TODAY and this weekend...Do what you got to do to stay quit, even if it means talking to a professional. There's a reason why they are called doctors, so don't be discouraged.
I'm proud to be quit with you, and I hope you get to feeling better soon!
I'll be glad to exchange #'s with you if you want.
This is my feeling about this. In my case I have come to the conclusion that I must have hated myself quite a bit to stuff my face with a can of death a day. Nicotine gave me a false sense of control of things I couldn't control or didn't want to deal with. Without nicotine in my brain I believe I am more willing to speak my mind about what is truly bothering me. Does this make me an asshole? Sometimes it does. However, I think I was a bigger asshole when I was hiding behind nicotine. Stay strong!!! Stay quit!!!!! While it is frustrating I have yet to see one veteran say it only gets worse. Better days are coming for us all if we can stay quit one day at a time.
Now here is my question. Am I the only one that is more scared than angry when someone caves with hundreds of days quit. I am only at day 41 and it is a daily battle. At day 400 + am I still not going to be able to go into a convenience store alone because I don't trust myself?
-
Day 31
What's the worst thing about quitting? Well - ok - the worst thing is the dread that you might cave; but set that aside. If there's one symptom that can slam you to the mat, which is it?
I hate the insomnia, night-sweats, sleepiness, fog, munchies and dip-cravings. I've had constipation, diarrhea, lethargy and panic-attacks. My muscles ache, my head buzzes, my eyes throb.Â
The unstable emotions are also annoying - I thought my heart was going to break watching The Fighter with my wife the other night; my chest hurt so much it felt just like I had swallowed a chicken-bone sideways. I don't like being gripped like that. I watched "Epic Rap Battles of History - 2" on YouTube; and, even though it's not my kind of humor, I was laughing so hard I was on the floor gulping for breath. I like a good belly-laugh as much as anyone, but this was maniacal and frankly, unpleasant.
Unpleasant as they are, none of these can make me give chewing a second thought. Yeah, they're no fun, but a bad case of the flu is no fun and it doesn't make me want to go suck on an infected bird or something. I know that nic has caused all these things, and they will become less intense and finally go away over time, so I'm not going to return to the toxin for relief.
Dip-rage on the other hand ... compared to other symptoms of nicotine cessation, dip-rage is all by itself. If all I had to deal with is those other annoyances, I might have quit for good decades ago. But, when I quit, I am literally afraid of myself: very anxious about what I might say, or what I might do. The worst thing is, I'm not sure that it's actually a symptom. Is it the absence of nicotine that makes me feel like I might literally KILL someone - or is that just the kind of person I actually am? Is this something about which no one can tell me, "Trust me, it gets better"?
Anger has the strangest effect on me when I'm not using. When something gets my goat, someone interrupts me when I'm trying to make a point, someone turns into my lane without checking to see if they're past me, someone gets angry with me - it doesn't take a real reason - I suddenly feel as though I'm right back in the heaviest fog of days 1-4. I can not think straight. I have changed into Hulk and me not me. Me become death, crusher of worlds! AAAAAaaaggggHHHH!
I'm trying to keep a sense of humor about it, but in all seriousness, the problem is severe enough that I'm going to have to get real low and ask a psychiatrist about it. I hate talking to those people about their magical $50/pill solutions to life's ups and downs. Anger management classes? Something.Â
No plan for me to stay quit can exclude dealing with the anger problem. It's the one factor that, in the past, even after a year or more of being quit, has always made me doubt whether staying clean is worth it.
-- edit --
I don't like where I left that. I have to put my other foot down.
My wife begged me once to start chewing again. She didn't say "Please start dipping", instead it was "I'm afraid of you". That person she's afraid of ... I don't want to be that person. That's why this addict always went back. It's a powerful rationalization - capable of overcoming any of my fears of cancer or early death.
I also don't want to use tobacco. I need to be quit. So, to be quit, it needs to be a matter of choosing who I want to be: because that is the ultimate rationalization - does this make sense?
I don't make many promises. I don't trust myself to keep them, if they become numerous. But from now on I'm making one promise to you strangers today, each day. I promise not to use tobacco today. For that to work, I need to want to be a man of my word as much as I want to overcome any issues of anger that in the past I ever imagined tobacco to help me with. Now, in order to be the man I want to be - whether handling anger or keeping my promises - caving is no longer an option; I have to find another way. Â
At last, the ultimate rationalization is on my team, against nicotine.
Nine,
I cant give you a lengthy reply as I am out the door for work, however I am just going to try to encourage you to hang in there for TODAY and this weekend...Do what you got to do to stay quit, even if it means talking to a professional. There's a reason why they are called doctors, so don't be discouraged.
I'm proud to be quit with you, and I hope you get to feeling better soon!
I'll be glad to exchange #'s with you if you want.
No shame in seeking help. We have one target. Do what is necessary to remain nicotine free...today. Although your avatar screams "I drive a stalker van" and "put the lotion in the basket," my number is yours if you'd like it. I enjoy reading your writing, so I'll take the risk.
Maybe a martial arts class would help relieve some of the anger. You get to punch and kick folks. Whatever you do, the nic whore deserves no mercy.
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Day 35
A friend of a friend lost his leg under a Harley, recently. I'm unclear about the mechanics of it, but it happened somehow after he dropped the bike going no faster than 30, in an attempt to avoid another vehicle. A couple of seconds later, out of the fourteen bones in his face twelve were broken, and one of his legs lay a couple yards distant from the rest of him.
When my wife told me about this, I prodded for details that might make the story sound more plausible. She only repeated what she heard, she assured me. Something to do with the kickstand, she said. I couldn't imagine how that would work, but every improbable picture I could conjure made me cringe.
That's what may happen to you, riding a motorcycle. It is not at all probable. "This product may cause tooth loss". The same word, "may", is used properly in both instances. The word does not imply any degree of certainty. It doesn't even carry a connotation of likelihood.
Imagine my surprise then, when after years of diligently caring for my handsome grill - brushing, flossing, rinsing - one of my molars just broke in half. And then another. And another. I had fillings, bridges, caps following one another so quickly that finally I just couldn't keep up and the pulling started - all in the last seven years or so. It's been like a slow-motion demolition. My mouth is a scene of ancient ruins.
This, or worse, may happen to you.
If you decide to continue chewing, take what comfort you can from that little word "may". You'll need it, when you bite down on the fragment of a tooth that, since your last appointment, has been transformed to the consistency of a wet Corn Nut.
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Sorry to hear about your friend, nine. Thanks for sharing.
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Day 45
My temper seems to be increasingly under control over these past two weeks. Tomorrow might be different, but the trend is good. If I indulge feelings of annoyance or frustration I become anxious and snippy; but I don't have to indulge those feelings.
My wife says that she likes me better than when I was chewing. I was "dull for a long time", according to her - I'm paraphrasing what she said. I've let her know that I'm going to have to stay quit, even if it turns out that I'm a worse person without a wad of chew in my face; but it's good if that won't be an obstacle.
I returned to using fake snuff occasionally, because I was impulsively eating candy without it. I've had the same can for more than a week, though. The first tiny shoots of mint are poking through on the south side of my house; chewing mint after meals keeps candy out of my mouth, keeps my breath fresh, and adds a nice yellow-green tint to my teeth.
I'm sleeping better, but I have a hard time staying awake in the morning. That may have nothing to do with quitting, though. I've been getting up at 5:30 to run or go to the gym, which I haven't done for decades.
I am so glad to be quit. The thought runs through my mind now and then, to have just one; but I am feeling clean, healthy and more in control, so that I haven't been struggling with wanting one. Anyway, regardless of how I feel, I've posted roll today. I've got people who might need me to post roll for them later. Caving just doesn't fit in.
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Day 60
Everytime I returned to the can in the past, it was never because I really wanted it. I reached a point where I was exactly 50% about staying quit. I could go on with or without it. It's easy in that state of mind to forget that the game of quit is rigged. If the score is Me 100, Nic 1, I lose: Quit Over. In a contest so heavily weighted against me, I need to keep an edge.
Reading here - even when it's foggy and rambling nonsense, even when it's my own stuff - and posting every day, has helped me keep that edge.
I could probably stay quit for a while making the daily decision to "just say no": that could go either way. In the past it did go both ways - sometimes staying quit, sometimes not. If there was a choice to be made during these past 60 days, I can think of half a dozen occasions when I'd already have lost.
But since I've been here, quitting has become more than just a daily decision. Now, there's only one choice open to me. The decision is already made when I wake up every day: "Just say Hell No!". Now quitting is not a choice, it's a cause.
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See you tomorrow. Glad you are here.
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Good stuff nine. I'd still never get in your van. :ph43r:
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Good stuff nine. I'd still never get in your van. :ph43r:
My wife doesn't like my avatar either.
Thanks for stopping by on your big day! Congratulations on your first hundred.
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The decision is already made when I wake up every day: "Just say Hell No!". Now quitting is not a choice, it's a cause.
Nine,
I think I got quit envy....
30
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Good stuff nine. I'd still never get in your van. :ph43r:
My wife doesn't like my avatar either.
Thanks for stopping by on your big day! Congratulations on your first hundred.
Good to be quit with you.
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Congrats on your first hundo, nine.
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Congrats on your first hundo, nine.
Congrats brother
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Congrats on your first hundo, nine.
Congrats brother
Hell yea. Nicely done. See you tomorrow.
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Congrats on your first hundo, nine.
Congrats brother
Hell yea. Nicely done. See you tomorrow.
Thank you all for your doing your part to keep me clean.
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Congrats on your first hundo, nine.
Congrats brother
Congratulations, Nine - proud of your quit man - an honor to quit with you today!
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Congrats on your first hundo, nine.
Congrats brother
Hell yea. Nicely done. See you tomorrow.
Thank you all for your doing your part to keep me clean.
Well done. Now you can live.
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The decision is already made when I wake up every day: "Just say Hell No!". Now quitting is not a choice, it's a cause.
Nine,
I think I got quit envy....
30
just saw this......
BBBOOOIIINNNGGGG!!!!!!!! Quit-agra right here.
Serious quit wood.
Congrats on the hundy....stick with the cause bro and we'll celebrate a thoudy.
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Here's to your first 100...well done...from a guy kicking Day 2 in the ass. You're an inspiration and part of why this site works, I can tell that already. I'm in it for the haul this time and people like you make it a little easier. Thank you!
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Day 169
I was blessing the newbies with my astonishing insights today, and it provided me the opportunity to realize how little I've been thinking about nicotine.
I had a craving about a week ago. If you can call it that. It was a pitiful, weak, orphan of an urge that pulled at the fringe of my consciousness and darted away into the shadows before I could really even get a glimpse of it. Sneaky, but shrunken and not even a shadow of its former terrifying self. I didn't stop to take in the significance of that at the time, but did today - and it is a big deal.
Next week will be different - I always need to remind myself of that, to keep a watch against my old nemesis Complacency. But, I'm enjoying this season of life, greatly. I've had very few like it in my life. I am quite fully assured that, it will get even better.
I am grateful. And I'm realizing now that gratitude is an even stronger weapon against falling back, than willpower or fear were earlier in my quit.
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Good stuff there nine. Freedom is becoming more free...
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Good stuff there nine. Freedom is becoming more free...
I've paid a great price in the service of chew. I've always known that. But it's only as the weight lifts off me that I really get a measure of what a tremendous burden I'd been carrying, of physical and psychological strain, and the load on my conscience too.
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Your experience gives me hope. thanks Nine.
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Day 171
I was working out faithfully for months after I quit dipping, but my weight continued to climb. Then my achilles' tendon started to swell. I had to knock off running. I feel huge.
Damn you Reese's peanut butter Cup. Why do you have to be so delicious?
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Congrats on your accomplishment - just read the thread and your journey. I'm a 21 year dipper, on day 9 quit now. I like reading the stories of others to put a little more fire in my gut to motivate me and yours was a good one.
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Congrats on your accomplishment - just read the thread and your journey. I'm a 21 year dipper, on day 9 quit now. I like reading the stories of others to put a little more fire in my gut to motivate me and yours was a good one.
Thanks. It doesn't really come across in those early posts how scared I was that I would fail and that there was nothing I could do about it.
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Damn you Reese's peanut butter Cup. Why do you have to be so delicious?
Mule has a support group for this....I sugest you contact him ASAP.
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Damn you Reese's peanut butter Cup. Why do you have to be so delicious?
Mule has a support group for this....I sugest you contact him ASAP.
Good idea.
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One of my favorite can killers surrendered today, which naturally reawakens the question of if that might happen to me.
Not having chew in my mouth as I used to for every waking moment of most of my life makes me more keenly aware of what I'm missing. I poke the gaps on the plug-side of my mouth, where once I had teeth. I brush literally a half-dozen times a day - as though I'm trying to undo the damage. I miss sleeping on my left side, which hasn't been comfortable for years now because of the damage done to my esophagus. I do miss those things.
I no longer have the headaches and edginess that would come around every time that I didn't put tobacco in my face first thing in the morning. I'm no longer digging in the couch or in my wife's purse or a piggy bank to find quarters as I used to when I unexpectedly ran short of cash for a can. It's been hundreds of days since I snapped at my kids for digging through my jacket pockets to find car keys (where I had left a pouch of Redman that I didn't want them to know about). I don't have chew in my life anymore, but at least I have countless memories like that to comfort me.
Tough decision. Aaargh ... so hard! But, uh ... all things considered, I quit again today. As hard as it's going to be, I'll just have to get used to what I'm missing.
Day 262
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Nine....
This morning when I found out a sadness came over me...a friend, a brother had fallen in this battle. As you point out, it reminds us of our vulnerability, and that scares us. Causes us to be more vigilant. And in a weird way that failure fuels our success.
As we near the time that taps is sounded for 3 November 2011, you and I won yet another victory. We fought today against our addiction, and we have been awarded a decisive victory. Congratulations my friend, we live to fight another day.
I will see you tomorrow at roll, Lord willing.
Dale
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Nine, I'm sorry to hear about your friend. I can relate to your health concerns. 28 teeth is what we start with. I am down to 27 and will be losing one more pretty soon. I can drive a Mack truck between my teeth and gums. I hate myself for what I have done to my mouth. My taste buds are ruined. My gums are so sensitive to texture that most foods feel too strange to eat. After 2 beers my mouth becomes so bitter to taste Im done. This is what I have done to myself. A month ago I wrote out my HOF speech explaining all this but it got so bitter of a speech I never posted it. I am quit with you. Today and tomorrow.
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Day 417
Blood work for insurance came back with good news.
After 402 days quit, I was bumped from "Choice Non-smoker" to "Preferred Non-smoker", meaning: I was a customer whose business they won't refuse, and now I'm one whose business they will work to keep.
That's because I am, to a scientific certainty, that much healthier than I used to be.
Are you quit?
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Congrats bud. The world is validating your decision!
I quit with you today.
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Day 417
Blood work for insurance came back with good news.
After 402 days quit, I was bumped from "Choice Non-smoker" to "Preferred Non-smoker", meaning: I was a customer whose business they won't refuse, and now I'm one whose business they will work to keep.
That's because I am, to a scientific certainty, that much healthier than I used to be.
Are you quit?
:)
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Day 417
Blood work for insurance came back with good news.
After 402 days quit, I was bumped from "Choice Non-smoker" to "Preferred Non-smoker", meaning: I was a customer whose business they won't refuse, and now I'm one whose business they will work to keep.
That's because I am, to a scientific certainty, that much healthier than I used to be.
Are you quit?
That is great news, congrats!
Also, good to know that the Death Panel at the Insurance Companies are starting to look at you profitably and favorably.