KillTheCan.org Accountability Forum
Community => Introductions => Topic started by: zam on January 27, 2012, 09:24:00 AM
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I don't really have any criticisms of KTC, I just thought I'd deflect some of the heat off of 2score. I also realized that I guess protocol indicates I should post something of an intro in this section. I'll keep it short, because (like a certain other intro thread), I would surely offend somebody. Hell, In my current state (day 4.25 of the quit) I know I am not overly pleasant or tactful. Nor do I give a rat's anus. It's likely I'll go out of my way to piss people off just so I have an excuse to repeatedly yell the stuff like "WHAT THE FUCK, OVER!?" and YGBSM! and " I am NOT over-fucking-reacting!!" and "toilet paper is supposed to unroll off the top, you f'n moron!! How many mother-$@'€ times...".
Deep breath. No, a nice pinch wouldn't be just the thing to help compose an introduction.
INTRODUCTION
Sam
Username : Zam
Started smoking in early 80's,
Switched to cope in the mid80's
Figured out 25 years later how much of my life has become nothing but support system for my habit.
I have survived the last few days nic-free by putting the nic-bitch in physical form. Literally. Instead of a having an "invisible friend, " I have an invisible evil devil of an enemy. I'm not crazy. Ok, I'm crazy.
Edit: I'm only leaving this post intact as an example of the horribly bad decision making that any "day 1" will give. I do not want another day one. Also, it has already been quoted, and I can't do shit about that. If the first sentence doesnmt make sense, heres the context: One of the first threads I read in the introductions section was one where some dude named 2score was getting an ass chewing, and there were like 4 bazillion replies to his intro - every one flaming hot.
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I don't really have any criticisms of KTC, I just thought I'd deflect some of the heat off of 2score. I also realized that I guess protocol indicates I should post something of an intro in this section. I'll keep it short, because (like a certain other intro thread), I would surely offend somebody. Hell, In my current state (day 4.25 of the quit) I know I am not overly pleasant or tactful. Nor do I give a rat's anus. It's likely I'll go out of my way to piss people off just so I have an excuse to repeatedly yell the stuff like "WHAT THE FUCK, OVER!?" and YGBSM! and " I am NOT over-fucking-reacting!!" and "toilet paper is supposed to unroll off the top, you f'n moron!! How many mother-$@'€ times...".
Deep breath. No, a nice pinch wouldn't be just the thing to help compose an introduction.
INTRODUCTION
Sam Powell
Username : Zam
Started smoking in early 80's,
Switched to cope in the mid80's
Figured out 25 years later how much of my life has become nothing but support system for my habit.
I have survived the last few days nic-free by putting the nic-bitch in physical form. Literally. Instead of a having an "invisible friend, " I have an invisible evil devil of an enemy. I'm not crazy. Ok, I'm crazy.
Welcome.
Rage is good.
Rage here.
Toilet paper comes from the bottom.
Never again.
For any reason.
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I don't really have any criticisms of KTC, I just thought I'd deflect some of the heat off of 2score. I also realized that I guess protocol indicates I should post something of an intro in this section.  I'll keep it short, because (like a certain other intro thread), I would surely offend somebody.  Hell, In my current state (day 4.25 of the quit) I know I am not overly pleasant or tactful. Nor do I give a rat's anus.  It's likely I'll go out of my way to piss people off just so I have an excuse to repeatedly yell the stuff like "WHAT THE FUCK, OVER!?" and YGBSM! and " I am NOT over-fucking-reacting!!" and "toilet paper is supposed to unroll off the top, you f'n moron!! How many mother-$@'€ times...".  Â
Deep breath.  No, a nice pinch wouldn't be just the thing to help compose an introduction.
INTRODUCTION
Sam Powell
Username : Zam
Started smoking in early 80's,
Switched to cope in the mid80's
Figured out 25 years later how much of my life has become nothing but support system for my habit.Â
I have survived the last few days nic-free by putting the nic-bitch in physical form. Literally.  Instead of a having an "invisible friend, " I have an invisible evil devil of an enemy. I'm not crazy. Ok, I'm crazy.
Welcome.
Rage is good.
Rage here.
Toilet paper comes from the bottom.
Never again.
For any reason.
Your comments reminded me of some of mine years ago when I'd make a half-assed attempt to quit. "Are you TRYING to fuck with me?" or "What's your fucking problem" were two of my most common responses to questions from my wife...Now I don't have a wife. I wonder if my comments had anything to do with it. 'crackup'
Stay the course and don't put any of that shit in your face. It WILL kill you, just a matter of time.
You can do this.
I'm quit with you today, brother.
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For any reason.
Your comments reminded me of some of mine years ago when I'd make a half-assed attempt to quit. "Are you TRYING to fuck with me?" or "What's your fucking problem" were two of my most common responses to questions from my wife...Now I don't have a wife. I wonder if my comments had anything to do with it. 'crackup'
Stay the course and don't put any of that shit in your face. It WILL kill you, just a matter of time.
You can do this.
I'm quit with you today, brother. [/QUOTE]
Thanks for the words. Good ones. It's easy to blow steam here, and you guys will hear some of the shit I didn't say to the wife. Most of my intro post comes from the fact that nicotine withdrawal is a bitch, and dealing with the fact that I am not in as much control as I woulda liked to believe.
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For any reason.
Your comments reminded me of some of mine years ago when I'd make a half-assed attempt to quit. "Are you TRYING to fuck with me?" or "What's your fucking problem" were two of my most common responses to questions from my wife...Now I don't have a wife. I wonder if my comments had anything to do with it. 'crackup'
Stay the course and don't put any of that shit in your face. It WILL kill you, just a matter of time.
You can do this.
I'm quit with you today, brother.
Thanks for the words. Good ones. It's easy to blow steam here, and you guys will hear some of the shit I didn't say to the wife. Most of my intro post comes from the fact that nicotine withdrawal is a bitch, and dealing with the fact that I am not in as much control as I woulda liked to believe. [/QUOTE]
I thought I was in control and not raging much, until one day just unleashed a tirade on a fellow quitter. We were called the February Flamethrowers for a few days after that. It didn't matter at all in the long run...all was forgiven. So let it out. Plus, its fun to go back and read after you get your head back on straight.
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Welcome to the best decision you ever made brother.
I quit with you today.
Miles +1
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Welcome, sir. Good to have you here. Yes, aim your ire in our direction. Especially Miles. Calling him a fag has helped me many times.
Yell if you need anything.
PS- I rather doubt 2sore would appreciate the attention being diverted.
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I feel you Zam.. I am on day 2 of quitting and I am on edge.. The anxiety is through the roof but we got this bro!! I told the boys on my team that I am off the nic now, so if I freak out on someone, put my sorry ass back in-line.. Stay true man!
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I don't really have any criticisms of KTC, I just thought I'd deflect some of the heat off of 2score. I also realized that I guess protocol indicates I should post something of an intro in this section. I'll keep it short, because (like a certain other intro thread), I would surely offend somebody. Hell, In my current state (day 4.25 of the quit) I know I am not overly pleasant or tactful. Nor do I give a rat's anus. It's likely I'll go out of my way to piss people off just so I have an excuse to repeatedly yell the stuff like "WHAT THE FUCK, OVER!?" and YGBSM! and " I am NOT over-fucking-reacting!!" and "toilet paper is supposed to unroll off the top, you f'n moron!! How many mother-$@'€ times...".  Â
Deep breath. No, a nice pinch wouldn't be just the thing to help compose an introduction.
INTRODUCTION
Sam Powell
Username : Zam
Started smoking in early 80's,
Switched to cope in the mid80's
Figured out 25 years later how much of my life has become nothing but support system for my habit.Â
I have survived the last few days nic-free by putting the nic-bitch in physical form. Literally. Instead of a having an "invisible friend, " I have an invisible evil devil of an enemy. I'm not crazy. Ok, I'm crazy.
Welcome.
Rage is good.
Rage here.
Toilet paper comes from the bottom.
Never again.
For any reason.
I need TP for my bunghole!!
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I want to post this up while I'm still newbie around here. If the process of trying to figure out where to go and what to do is part of the initiation, well, disregard.
First of all, after being here for 16 days and change, I don't have ANY problem navigating to where I need to go, and finding stuff that I think may be here but never seen.
I think we all know that this site is not hard to navigate if one is in ANY way motivated. But if guys hitting this site for the first time are like me, and foggy as hell, licking the empty space behind their bottom lip, it can be hard.
Also realize that first time visitors can land on damn near ANY page in on the site, depending on what they googled before coming here.
My suggestion is to simply make sure that the "template" for damn near any page on this site has a VERY CLEAR escape hatch that SCREAM to the confused: "DON"T KNOW WHERE TO START? CLICK HERE!!" "ABOUT TO FUCKING SNAP INTO SOME SORT OF INSANITY OR RAGE? CLICK HERE!! Every page should have this, even at the expense of some function that the old vet uses a lot.
Now that I think about it, maybe the introductions thread should automatically be the first thing that an active member sees before going off somewhere else. If some visitor in need posts a note, there is no doubt that they will get a response - quickly.
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OK, If I had known that this thread would stay with me here at KTC as my official intro, I definitely would have re-thunk the title. And I might have posted stuff that actually had to do with an introduction. So here goes a slightly less foggy, slightly more informative introduction.
(cue up inspiring music)
"And now, please welcome Zam! Sam hails from southern Missouri. He is 46 years old, married with 3 (nearly) grown kids. Zam's ensemble this morning includes pin-striped boxers, paint-stained tee shirt, and black socks. When not working for a major airline, he enjoys golf, old machinery, and ranting with nic-rage. He recently restored a 98 year old printing press, and is now working on building a high-quality still. If Sam was given one wish, he would use it to end hunger, stop violence, to obtain world peace, or for $50Million cash. Sam has chosen to quit nicotine use after 26+ years because he no longer wishes to have his every movement tied to when and how he would get his next nicotine hit. The quit-for-today idea, along with the no-coddling, in-your-face, meaningful accountability convinced Sam to join KTC."
(fade out inspiring music, cue applause)
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OK, If I had known that this thread would stay with me here at KTC as my official intro, I probably would have re-thunk the title. And I might have posted stuff that actually had to do with an introduction. So here goes a slightly less foggy, slightly more informative introduction.
(cue up inspiring music)
"And now, please welcome Zam! Sam hails from southern Missouri. He is 46 years old, married with 3 (nearly) grown kids. Zam's ensemble this morning includes pin-striped boxers, paint-stained tee shirt, and black socks. When not working for a major airline, he enjoys golf, old machinery, and ranting with nic-rage. He recently restored a 98 year old printing press, and is now working on building a high-quality still. If Sam was given one wish, he would use it to end hunger, stop violence, to obtain world peace, or for $50Million cash. Sam has chosen to quit nicotine use because he no longer wishes to have his every movement tied to when and how he would get his next nicotine hit. The quit-for-today idea, along with the no-coddling, in-your-face, meaningful accountability convinced Sam to join KTC."
(fade out inspiring music)
Welcome aboard Zam ;)
Nice title, jackass :lol:
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OK, If I had known that this thread would stay with me here at KTC as my official intro, I probably would have re-thunk the title.  And I might have posted stuff that actually had to do with an introduction. So here goes a slightly less foggy, slightly more informative introduction.
(cue up inspiring music)
"And now, please welcome Zam! Sam hails from southern Missouri. He is 46 years old, married with 3 (nearly) grown kids. Zam's ensemble this morning includes pin-striped boxers, paint-stained tee shirt, and black socks. When not working for a major airline, he enjoys golf, old machinery, and ranting with nic-rage. He recently restored a 98 year old printing press, and is now working on building a high-quality still. If Sam was given one wish, he would use it to end hunger, stop violence, to obtain world peace, or for $50Million cash. Sam has chosen to quit nicotine use because he no longer wishes to have his every movement tied to when and how he would get his next nicotine hit. The quit-for-today idea, along with the no-coddling, in-your-face, meaningful accountability convinced Sam to join KTC."
(fade out inspiring music)
Welcome aboard Zam ;)
Nice title, jackass :lol:
You rock Sam.
'Sing and Drink'
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OK, If I had known that this thread would stay with me here at KTC as my official intro, I definitely would have re-thunk the title. And I might have posted stuff that actually had to do with an introduction. So here goes a slightly less foggy, slightly more informative introduction.
(cue up inspiring music)
"And now, please welcome Zam! Sam hails from southern Missouri. He is 46 years old, married with 3 (nearly) grown kids. Zam's ensemble this morning includes pin-striped boxers, paint-stained tee shirt, and black socks. When not working for a major airline, he enjoys golf, old machinery, and ranting with nic-rage. He recently restored a 98 year old printing press, and is now working on building a high-quality still. If Sam was given one wish, he would use it to end hunger, stop violence, to obtain world peace, or for $50Million cash. Sam has chosen to quit nicotine use after 26+ years because he no longer wishes to have his every movement tied to when and how he would get his next nicotine hit. The quit-for-today idea, along with the no-coddling, in-your-face, meaningful accountability convinced Sam to join KTC."
(fade out inspiring music, cue applause)
Face it, you're just an attention whore...
'crackup'
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Calling out a caver is an ugly thing, but not the ugliest of things. The decayed and degraded state of moral being which thinks that no caver has a duty to pass his hard earned lessons on to his brothers, that no attempt at accountability is worth the risk offending someone, is much worse. The quitter who refuses to hold someone accountable to their word, who refuses to ask the tough questions of a brother in need of not comfort but truth, who values harmony over confronting the logic of the addicted brain , is a miserable creature with little chance of being free unless made and kept so by the exertions of more honest, forthright, and yes, compassionate quitters than himself.
My apologies to John Stuart Mill for the adaptation his wonderful quote.
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OK, If I had known that this thread would stay with me here at KTC as my official intro, I definitely would have re-thunk the title. And I might have posted stuff that actually had to do with an introduction. So here goes a slightly less foggy, slightly more informative introduction.
(cue up inspiring music)
"And now, please welcome Zam! Sam hails from southern Missouri. He is 46 years old, married with 3 (nearly) grown kids. Zam's ensemble this morning includes pin-striped boxers, paint-stained tee shirt, and black socks. When not working for a major airline, he enjoys golf, old machinery, and ranting with nic-rage. He recently restored a 98 year old printing press, and is now working on building a high-quality still. If Sam was given one wish, he would use it to end hunger, stop violence, to obtain world peace, or for $50Million cash. Sam has chosen to quit nicotine use after 26+ years because he no longer wishes to have his every movement tied to when and how he would get his next nicotine hit. The quit-for-today idea, along with the no-coddling, in-your-face, meaningful accountability convinced Sam to join KTC."
(fade out inspiring music, cue applause)
a little tip...and spoiling the party...
If you go back to your first post on this thread and hit edit, you will be able to change the title...
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In the midst of a crave, Forever is not possible...Today is possible.
I just read these words on this website and I never knew that everyone experienced overwhelming feelings of fear when confronted with the question "what will my life be like without my snuff?" That fear has doomed me many times. Thanks to whoever posted it.
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Rangy-
Even though we all think we are unique and special (we are, just like everyone else), a lot of quits have many of the same issues we each have, at about the same stage. I thought I was unique because of how long I chewed, my lifestyle, my image. Hell, most of that was the nic bitch trying to keep me hooked.
I've learned a ton by reading what's out here. Turns out I'm just a like almost everyone else here, a long term addict that is now quit 1 day at a time.
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Theory: It is no one's business when and how an individual quitter choses to post roll, other than that of said quitter. The particular style in which one choses to post has no logical bearing or influence on the workings of the quit group as a whole. Furthermore, disagreeing with a posting style, or attempting to impose a "standard" is counterproductive, and does not fall within the definition of "support".
I think the above about wraps up a couple of conversations I have had concerning when and how someone posts roll. I'm here to tell you, that I had a clear choice when I googled "quit dipping" 70-something days ago. I found many options. More than one option was good, but one option I thought to be clearly better for me than what I had tried. I chose KTC. Why? Because of accountability. Anyone want to seriously tell me how this place is better than a simple diary, if you throw out accountability? And anyone want to tell me how you can have accountability if all of us decided that it just isn't anyone's business when, how and if they interacted with the quit group? The irony is that the people who have the balls to say that it is no one's business how they post, are having their water carried by those that think otherwise. They are like the people who refuse to get vaccines for measles, small pox, etc: they are fine and happy with their decision, and you hear them crow "see! I told you I was right and didn't need to do it your way! You all were just over-reacting!". But in reality, that person is kept healthy only because the larger crowd has reduced EVERYONE"S risks by being vaccinated, including the person who refused. Sort of the same thing at KTC. You can be quit at KTC without following the "standard practices", but only because there are many more people willing to "subvert" their personal desires and conform to the "system." Some call this drinking the koolade. I strongly believe that the ones that want to "do their own thing" are trying to have all the benefits of a strong support system, without any need to contribute to that system.
To those of you that I have offended by be so direct in my beliefs, I have no apology. I honestly hope you continue being free of the nicotine burden. But if you believe that your actions here affect no one but yourself, I want you to change your opinion, I want you to try to change mine, or I want you to find a system that works better for you. That's not being an ass. That's me wanting to help.
Rant complete.
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Theory: It is no one's business when and how an individual quitter choses to post roll, other than that of said quitter. The particular style in which one choses to post has no logical bearing or influence on the workings of the quit group as a whole. Furthermore, disagreeing with a posting style, or attempting to impose a "standard" is counterproductive, and does not fall within the definition of "support".
I think the above about wraps up a couple of conversations I have had concerning when and how someone posts roll. I'm here to tell you, that I had a clear choice when I googled "quit dipping" 70-something days ago. I found many options. More than one option was good, but one option I thought to be clearly better for me than what I had tried. I chose KTC. Why? Because of accountability. Anyone want to seriously tell me how this place is better than a simple diary, if you throw out accountability? And anyone want to tell me how you can have accountability if all of us decided that it just isn't anyone's business when, how and if they interacted with the quit group? The irony is that the people who have the balls to say that it is no one's business how they post, are having their water carried by those that think otherwise. They are like the people who refuse to get vaccines for measles, small pox, etc: they are fine and happy with their decision, and you hear them crow "see! I told you I was right and didn't need to do it your way! You all were just over-reacting!". But in reality, that person is kept healthy only because the larger crowd has reduced EVERYONE"S risks by being vaccinated, including the person who refused. Sort of the same thing at KTC. You can be quit at KTC without following the "standard practices", but only because there are many more people willing to "subvert" their personal desires and conform to the "system." Some call this drinking the koolade. I strongly believe that the ones that want to "do their own thing" are trying to have all the benefits of a strong support system, without any need to contribute to that system.
To those of you that I have offended by be so direct in my beliefs, I have no apology. I honestly hope you continue being free of the nicotine burden. But if you believe that your actions here affect no one but yourself, I want you to change your opinion, I want you to try to change mine, or I want you to find a system that works better for you. That's not being an ass. That's me wanting to help.
Rant complete.
Your rant is not complete, it's just reserved for a TBD time and location. You think a lot like I do and we seem to have similar likes and dislikes. We both enjoy moustache rides, blow up dolls and sitting on the front porch drinking sweet tea. But most importantly, we both have a serious disdain for members of our respective groups that shit all over everyone else and/or do not contribute anything to the group. IMO, the guys that shit on the group aren't that big of an issue because everyone knows they suck and no one takes their side. However, the bigger issue is the quitters that choose to ONLY post roll and then go about their daily business. These quitters do not contribute anything to the good of the whole group, yet they keep hanging around and hanging around. These quitters do not reach out to their group members, instead they look elsewhere for guidance and support (i.e. the Vets).
Now, anybody in April 12 that knows me well, knows exactly who I'm talking about. And I have to be honest, that weird ass fuck tard still pisses me off. Well Mr. Zam, I've had to convince myself that it is their loss. People like you and I find strength in reaching out and helping others. On the other hand, "those" quitters would most likely fail if all of the Vets were wiped off the face of the planet tomorrow by some crazy virus. Not me, not us. We are involved in our group and our group is our strength. That's what this site is all about.
I guess my point is this: There will always be "those"quitters in new quit groups, but there will also always be guys like us.
I know this isn't my Intro thread, but on behalf of Zam, myself and all the serious badass quitters out there, I'd like to take this opportunity to tell all of you out there that do not get involved in your quit group and rely on others to do the work, especially that one person in particular...to Go Fuck Yourselves!! 'Finger'
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Theory: It is no one's business when and how an individual quitter choses to post roll, other than that of said quitter. The particular style in which one choses to post has no logical bearing or influence on the workings of the quit group as a whole. Furthermore, disagreeing with a posting style, or attempting to impose a "standard" is counterproductive, and does not fall within the definition of "support".
I think the above about wraps up a couple of conversations I have had concerning when and how someone posts roll. I'm here to tell you, that I had a clear choice when I googled "quit dipping" 70-something days ago. I found many options. More than one option was good, but one option I thought to be clearly better for me than what I had tried. I chose KTC. Why? Because of accountability. Anyone want to seriously tell me how this place is better than a simple diary, if you throw out accountability? And anyone want to tell me how you can have accountability if all of us decided that it just isn't anyone's business when, how and if they interacted with the quit group? The irony is that the people who have the balls to say that it is no one's business how they post, are having their water carried by those that think otherwise. They are like the people who refuse to get vaccines for measles, small pox, etc: they are fine and happy with their decision, and you hear them crow "see! I told you I was right and didn't need to do it your way! You all were just over-reacting!". But in reality, that person is kept healthy only because the larger crowd has reduced EVERYONE"S risks by being vaccinated, including the person who refused. Sort of the same thing at KTC. You can be quit at KTC without following the "standard practices", but only because there are many more people willing to "subvert" their personal desires and conform to the "system." Some call this drinking the koolade. I strongly believe that the ones that want to "do their own thing" are trying to have all the benefits of a strong support system, without any need to contribute to that system.
To those of you that I have offended by be so direct in my beliefs, I have no apology. I honestly hope you continue being free of the nicotine burden. But if you believe that your actions here affect no one but yourself, I want you to change your opinion, I want you to try to change mine, or I want you to find a system that works better for you. That's not being an ass. That's me wanting to help.
Rant complete.
I agree with you Zam, but frankly have less expectation of those that either don't participate or rebel against the site norms. I view most of them as stoppers, not quitters. I fully expect 50% or more to fail, if for no other reason than they hadn't really decided to be done with nicotine and do what obviously attracted them to this site. Like most things in life, you get out of KTC what you put into it. Being active on the site and supportive of others helps multiple people, and hell it helps my quit. So I do it some. I've drank the koolaid as far as trying hard to post before 8:30am local time, because it does help those that are hawking the roll posts. Total agree that KTC different only because of accountability. However I don't want future failed quitters (or former failed quitters for that matter) chasing people off the site by being asses. I'd like to believe there is more effort behind the scenes than just the public whacking that sometimes goes on. So long as people are doing more personally (PMs, texts, emails, calls) than publically (posts, namecalling, etc) the site will survive just fine.
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Theory: It is no one's business when and how an individual quitter choses to post roll, other than that of said quitter. The particular style in which one choses to post has no logical bearing or influence on the workings of the quit group as a whole. Furthermore, disagreeing with a posting style, or attempting to impose a "standard" is counterproductive, and does not fall within the definition of "support".
I think the above about wraps up a couple of conversations I have had concerning when and how someone posts roll. I'm here to tell you, that I had a clear choice when I googled "quit dipping" 70-something days ago. I found many options. More than one option was good, but one option I thought to be clearly better for me than what I had tried. I chose KTC. Why? Because of accountability. Anyone want to seriously tell me how this place is better than a simple diary, if you throw out accountability? And anyone want to tell me how you can have accountability if all of us decided that it just isn't anyone's business when, how and if they interacted with the quit group? The irony is that the people who have the balls to say that it is no one's business how they post, are having their water carried by those that think otherwise. They are like the people who refuse to get vaccines for measles, small pox, etc: they are fine and happy with their decision, and you hear them crow "see! I told you I was right and didn't need to do it your way! You all were just over-reacting!". But in reality, that person is kept healthy only because the larger crowd has reduced EVERYONE"S risks by being vaccinated, including the person who refused. Sort of the same thing at KTC. You can be quit at KTC without following the "standard practices", but only because there are many more people willing to "subvert" their personal desires and conform to the "system." Some call this drinking the koolade. I strongly believe that the ones that want to "do their own thing" are trying to have all the benefits of a strong support system, without any need to contribute to that system.
To those of you that I have offended by be so direct in my beliefs, I have no apology. I honestly hope you continue being free of the nicotine burden. But if you believe that your actions here affect no one but yourself, I want you to change your opinion, I want you to try to change mine, or I want you to find a system that works better for you. That's not being an ass. That's me wanting to help.
Rant complete.
I agree with you Zam, but frankly have less expectation of those that either don't participate or rebel against the site norms. I view most of them as stoppers, not quitters. I fully expect 50% or more to fail, if for no other reason than they hadn't really decided to be done with nicotine and do what obviously attracted them to this site. Like most things in life, you get out of KTC what you put into it. Being active on the site and supportive of others helps multiple people, and hell it helps my quit. So I do it some. I've drank the koolaid as far as trying hard to post before 8:30am local time, because it does help those that are hawking the roll posts. Total agree that KTC different only because of accountability. However I don't want future failed quitters (or former failed quitters for that matter) chasing people off the site by being asses. I'd like to believe there is more effort behind the scenes than just the public whacking that sometimes goes on. So long as people are doing more personally (PMs, texts, emails, calls) than publically (posts, namecalling, etc) the site will survive just fine.
Thanks for the thoughts, tony. As to the last part, I am guilty of, believe it or not, both extremes. I have coddle those that take advantage of my time, and I have gone apeshit on some that didn't deserve it. I decided to make a very concerted effort to never PM "negative" support. I have broken that vow a couple of time, and regretted it every time. I'll keep the "bad zam" on the public forum, where my brothers can pull back on the reigns when needed. That's not to say I regret some of my assholeishness, because sometimes (often) people misinterpret tact for acceptance. And brutal honesty is the only way. If I want tact, I'll converse with my grandmother.
Thanks man, made me think.
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Just wanted to keep save this post, pretty interesting stuff about the physiology of stress and nicotine.
attributed to Skoalmonster:
Schwimmerdave - day18 - question - do I ever get nice again - or do i spend the rest of my life as a grumpy - mean - foul mouthed jerk
Depends, were you a screaming douche nozzle before quitting? or just after?
check this out lil swimmer, Your problem has a few angles that you need to understand. The knowledge will help you feel better.
1. Anger as a substitute for nicotine- When you dipped nicotine released chemicals including adrenaline and other fight or flight endorphins. Imagine squeezing the water out of a sponge. Each time you dipped you squeezed your sponge and got a hit of dopamine and adrenaline. Your body forgot how to manufacture those chemicals properly while you forced it to produce on a schedule. Now that you quit your brain is wondering what the hell is going on, and where is its dose of feel good chemicals. So you find a CHEAT...anger. When you argue with your wife, fight with a co worker and let loose some anger, you get the same chemical hit. Adrenaline, cortisol etc. Your addicted brain is literally tricking you into stirring up shit to get a little jolt of the chemicals you used to force it to produce. In my case I fought with my wife, was a dick to the dog, mean to the kids, and almost assaulted a 17 yr old donut store clerk after he honked at me in the parking lot and I followed him into work. My favorite dip rage story was when Hydro threw a garbage can at a coworker.
Pretty fucked up huh? Nicotine is a toxic bitch that effects you in ways you'd never imagine. Good news is that shit will pass. Every day you don't dip your body heals. Nicotine receptors die or at least shut down. So yes things will get better.
2. New ways of dealing with anger- Here's a link you should read.
http://www.killthecan.org/robs/anger.asp (http://www.killthecan.org/robs/anger.asp)
3. The relief you think chew gave you from being angry is actually all bullshit. The relief you felt was just from getting over the withdrawl symptoms of nicotine. When your body is stressed it releases various chemicals, that actually quickly reduce the levels of nicotine in your blood stream. So stress becomes a craving for a dip. You would chew then feel better. The lie is that we attribute the feeling better to the dip relieving the stress, when in reality all you did was feed the addiction and relieve the anxiety of nicotine withdrawl. The stressful situation is still there.
4. And last , think over this. My routine was to get pissed about something or at someone at which point I would usually just bail and go have a chew. Then I would settle down. Being a dumbass I also assumed the chew was helping me manage my anger. Nope. What was helping me was simply removing myself from the situation. The relief was caused by handling the nicotine withdrawl . Whenever I had a confrontation I was essentially putting myself in a time out. Since I chewed from the time I was a kid, this is how I learned to handle ALL confrontation. When I stopped dipping I had to re-learn how to communicate and problem solve without bailing out of the conversation to go dip.
Essentially your addiction has managed your life and how you handle stress and how you communicate or rather don't communicate with those around you. It will change, but you gotta be patient, you didn't get here over night, and your not going to be all better after 3 weeks. What helped me a hell of alot in the beginning was just taking a walk.
sM
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Theory: It is no one's business when and how an individual quitter choses to post roll, other than that of said quitter. The particular style in which one choses to post has no logical bearing or influence on the workings of the quit group as a whole. Furthermore, disagreeing with a posting style, or attempting to impose a "standard" is counterproductive, and does not fall within the definition of "support".
I think the above about wraps up a couple of conversations I have had concerning when and how someone posts roll. I'm here to tell you, that I had a clear choice when I googled "quit dipping" 70-something days ago. I found many options. More than one option was good, but one option I thought to be clearly better for me than what I had tried. I chose KTC. Why? Because of accountability. Anyone want to seriously tell me how this place is better than a simple diary, if you throw out accountability? And anyone want to tell me how you can have accountability if all of us decided that it just isn't anyone's business when, how and if they interacted with the quit group? The irony is that the people who have the balls to say that it is no one's business how they post, are having their water carried by those that think otherwise. They are like the people who refuse to get vaccines for measles, small pox, etc: they are fine and happy with their decision, and you hear them crow "see! I told you I was right and didn't need to do it your way! You all were just over-reacting!". But in reality, that person is kept healthy only because the larger crowd has reduced EVERYONE"S risks by being vaccinated, including the person who refused. Sort of the same thing at KTC. You can be quit at KTC without following the "standard practices", but only because there are many more people willing to "subvert" their personal desires and conform to the "system." Some call this drinking the koolade. I strongly believe that the ones that want to "do their own thing" are trying to have all the benefits of a strong support system, without any need to contribute to that system.
To those of you that I have offended by be so direct in my beliefs, I have no apology. I honestly hope you continue being free of the nicotine burden. But if you believe that your actions here affect no one but yourself, I want you to change your opinion, I want you to try to change mine, or I want you to find a system that works better for you. That's not being an ass. That's me wanting to help.
Rant complete.
I agree with you Zam, but frankly have less expectation of those that either don't participate or rebel against the site norms. I view most of them as stoppers, not quitters. I fully expect 50% or more to fail, if for no other reason than they hadn't really decided to be done with nicotine and do what obviously attracted them to this site. Like most things in life, you get out of KTC what you put into it. Being active on the site and supportive of others helps multiple people, and hell it helps my quit. So I do it some. I've drank the koolaid as far as trying hard to post before 8:30am local time, because it does help those that are hawking the roll posts. Total agree that KTC different only because of accountability. However I don't want future failed quitters (or former failed quitters for that matter) chasing people off the site by being asses. I'd like to believe there is more effort behind the scenes than just the public whacking that sometimes goes on. So long as people are doing more personally (PMs, texts, emails, calls) than publically (posts, namecalling, etc) the site will survive just fine.
Thanks for the thoughts, tony. As to the last part, I am guilty of, believe it or not, both extremes. I have coddle those that take advantage of my time, and I have gone apeshit on some that didn't deserve it. I decided to make a very concerted effort to never PM "negative" support. I have broken that vow a couple of time, and regretted it every time. I'll keep the "bad zam" on the public forum, where my brothers can pull back on the reigns when needed. That's not to say I regret some of my assholeishness, because sometimes (often) people misinterpret tact for acceptance. And brutal honesty is the only way. If I want tact, I'll converse with my grandmother.
Thanks man, made me think.
Tact is over rated. Direct is always best in my experience. Also been on both sides, prefer to spend more on helping (even when the turd on the other end doesn't appear to deserve it) than raging at someone. But it is hard to not take it personally when someone who has touched you caves. Especially if you are in the middle of a nic rage, which seem to come in diminishing spirals...
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Theory: It is no one's business when and how an individual quitter choses to post roll, other than that of said quitter. The particular style in which one choses to post has no logical bearing or influence on the workings of the quit group as a whole. Furthermore, disagreeing with a posting style, or attempting to impose a "standard" is counterproductive, and does not fall within the definition of "support".
I think the above about wraps up a couple of conversations I have had concerning when and how someone posts roll. I'm here to tell you, that I had a clear choice when I googled "quit dipping" 70-something days ago. I found many options. More than one option was good, but one option I thought to be clearly better for me than what I had tried. I chose KTC. Why? Because of accountability. Anyone want to seriously tell me how this place is better than a simple diary, if you throw out accountability? And anyone want to tell me how you can have accountability if all of us decided that it just isn't anyone's business when, how and if they interacted with the quit group? The irony is that the people who have the balls to say that it is no one's business how they post, are having their water carried by those that think otherwise. They are like the people who refuse to get vaccines for measles, small pox, etc: they are fine and happy with their decision, and you hear them crow "see! I told you I was right and didn't need to do it your way! You all were just over-reacting!". But in reality, that person is kept healthy only because the larger crowd has reduced EVERYONE"S risks by being vaccinated, including the person who refused. Sort of the same thing at KTC. You can be quit at KTC without following the "standard practices", but only because there are many more people willing to "subvert" their personal desires and conform to the "system." Some call this drinking the koolade. I strongly believe that the ones that want to "do their own thing" are trying to have all the benefits of a strong support system, without any need to contribute to that system.
To those of you that I have offended by be so direct in my beliefs, I have no apology. I honestly hope you continue being free of the nicotine burden. But if you believe that your actions here affect no one but yourself, I want you to change your opinion, I want you to try to change mine, or I want you to find a system that works better for you. That's not being an ass. That's me wanting to help.
Rant complete.
I agree with you Zam, but frankly have less expectation of those that either don't participate or rebel against the site norms. I view most of them as stoppers, not quitters. I fully expect 50% or more to fail, if for no other reason than they hadn't really decided to be done with nicotine and do what obviously attracted them to this site. Like most things in life, you get out of KTC what you put into it. Being active on the site and supportive of others helps multiple people, and hell it helps my quit. So I do it some. I've drank the koolaid as far as trying hard to post before 8:30am local time, because it does help those that are hawking the roll posts. Total agree that KTC different only because of accountability. However I don't want future failed quitters (or former failed quitters for that matter) chasing people off the site by being asses. I'd like to believe there is more effort behind the scenes than just the public whacking that sometimes goes on. So long as people are doing more personally (PMs, texts, emails, calls) than publically (posts, namecalling, etc) the site will survive just fine.
Thanks for the thoughts, tony. As to the last part, I am guilty of, believe it or not, both extremes. I have coddle those that take advantage of my time, and I have gone apeshit on some that didn't deserve it. I decided to make a very concerted effort to never PM "negative" support. I have broken that vow a couple of time, and regretted it every time. I'll keep the "bad zam" on the public forum, where my brothers can pull back on the reigns when needed. That's not to say I regret some of my assholeishness, because sometimes (often) people misinterpret tact for acceptance. And brutal honesty is the only way. If I want tact, I'll converse with my grandmother.
Thanks man, made me think.
Tact is over rated. Direct is always best in my experience. Also been on both sides, prefer to spend more on helping (even when the turd on the other end doesn't appear to deserve it) than raging at someone. But it is hard to not take it personally when someone who has touched you caves. Especially if you are in the middle of a nic rage, which seem to come in diminishing spirals...
Pride. After reading the above posts, that's what I feel. An overwhelming pride.
Ready tips his hat and mumbles a thank you gentlemen for keeping this place alive
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Flattery, platitudes and lax expectations are forms of hatred.
From 30YrAddict's post. (http://forum.killthecan.org/index.php?showtopic=5760&view=findpost&p=6297945) That's good stuff.
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I will love and forgive myself into submission.
Whether you care enough to or not.
I can't say why, but I just had to copy and save this post. It is classic, in a weird way. I think Izanami was plagiarizing this guy. (http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_jX9QklC3G4E/TM8lAt040UI/AAAAAAAADRI/eW0s2_t1W9c/s400/Stuart_Smalley.jpg)
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A thought occurred to me today:
I travel a lot. Now, in the past, I would never start a trip without an ample supply of Cope. There were times, however, that I found myself licking the bottom of my last can. When this happened, I'd solve the "problem" any way possible. I've spent entire afternoons walking around looking for cope. I've walked in downpours without thinking twice bout it to get a new can. I've taken a cab to get cope. Ive talked shuttle drivers into taking me to grocery stores (not c-stores, because that would mean I was going through all this trouble for snuff, which would be lame, right?).
This is probably not surprising to many of you. In fact, I imagine that most everyone here has gone through the same BS many times.
What struck me as interesting is that I dont have any Smokey Mountain with me on this trip. I wish I did, but I don't. So what did I do this morning when I realized the I had no SM? Nothing. I figured I'd check a store as I was out walking around town. I forgot.
The point of all this? There are those that worry about fake chew becoming just another addiction of sorts. Maybe so, but the SM "addiction" didn't put my life on hold until I got my fix.
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A thought occurred to me today:
I travel a lot. Now, in the past, I would never start a trip without an ample supply of Cope. There were times, however, that I found myself licking the bottom of my last can. When this happened, I'd solve the "problem" any way possible. I've spent entire afternoons walking around looking for cope. I've walked in downpours without thinking twice bout it to get a new can. I've taken a cab to get cope. Ive talked shuttle drivers into taking me to grocery stores (not c-stores, because that would mean I was going through all this trouble for snuff, which would be lame, right?).
This is probably not surprising to many of you. In fact, I imagine that most everyone here has gone through the same BS many times.
What struck me as interesting is that I dont have any Smokey Mountain with me on this trip. I wish I did, but I don't. So what did I do this morning when I realized the I had no SM? Nothing. I figured I'd check a store as I was out walking around town. I forgot.
The point of all this? There are those that worry about fake chew becoming just another addiction of sorts. Maybe so, but the SM "addiction" didn't put my life on hold until I got my fix.
Great story and victory Zam!
I am a big fan of Smokey Mountain but I like you have found I don't crave the fake stuf the way I had craved my Grizzly....
I am happy to be quit and will continue to use Smokey Mountain whenever the thought strikes me without the worry of addiction!!
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A thought occurred to me today:
I travel a lot. Now, in the past, I would never start a trip without an ample supply of Cope. There were times, however, that I found myself licking the bottom of my last can. When this happened, I'd solve the "problem" any way possible. I've spent entire afternoons walking around looking for cope. I've walked in downpours without thinking twice bout it to get a new can. I've taken a cab to get cope. Ive talked shuttle drivers into taking me to grocery stores (not c-stores, because that would mean I was going through all this trouble for snuff, which would be lame, right?).
This is probably not surprising to many of you. In fact, I imagine that most everyone here has gone through the same BS many times.
What struck me as interesting is that I dont have any Smokey Mountain with me on this trip. I wish I did, but I don't. So what did I do this morning when I realized the I had no SM? Nothing. I figured I'd check a store as I was out walking around town. I forgot.
The point of all this? There are those that worry about fake chew becoming just another addiction of sorts. Maybe so, but the SM "addiction" didn't put my life on hold until I got my fix.
I was worried about the SM 'addiction factor' as well in the beginning.
I agree, it's more of a luxury item than anything else. I've run out and thought the same thing -- "I'll just pick some up later", then either forgot to or decided it wasn't worth the hassle.
It's gratifying as fuck to have control back over your life, and not have your day come to a grinding halt in order to increase your supply of a substance.
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Screenname: FosterChild
Name: T.J.
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Why did you Quit?: My son was asking a lot of questions about the manure i was putting in my mouth. He told me to just stop. It was my time and he pushed me over the edge.
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"He told me to just stop."
I can't put my finger on it now, so I just posted this on my intro as something for me to think about on a sleepless night. Just stop. Said in a matter-of-fact 5 year old voice. Just stop.
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Morpheus: Nicotine is a system, Neo. That system is our enemy. But when you're inside, you look around, what do you see? Businessmen, teachers, lawyers, carpenters. The very minds of the people we are trying to save. But until we do, these people are still a part of that system and that makes them our enemy. You have to understand, most of these people are not ready to be unplugged. And many of them are so inured, so hopelessly dependent on the system, that they will fight to protect it.
[Neo's eyes suddenly wander towards a sexy woman wearing a Copenhagen t-shirt]
Morpheus: Were you listening to me, Neo? Or were you looking at the woman in the Cope t-shirt?
Neo: I was...
Morpheus: [gestures with one hand] Look again.
[the woman in the cope t-shirt is now Agent Smith, holding an open can out towards Neo; Neo ducks]
Morpheus: Freeze it.
[Everybody and everything besides Neo and Morpheus freezes in time]
Neo: This... this isn't the Nicotine?
Morpheus: No. It is another training program designed to teach you one thing: the nic bitch is cunning, patient, and will pop up when you least expect it.
yes, it has been a pretty slow morning . . .
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I read a post by a fairly new, well intentioned quitter. His point was essentially that he would no longer post his number of days quit, just "day 1" from now on. I almost felt bad for this dude, because his heart was in the right place, and he had taken the time to deeply consider the stuff he read on KTC. I like the reasoning, the thought process that led him to think that, but felt the application of the idea sucked. ( BTW, SmokeyG pointed out in another thread that there is good reason NOT to treat every day as day 1. But that is another topic for another day). So, we quit for only today, and that insinuates that this day is all that really counts, right? No. That line of thinking missed the fact that addicts, me included, can often not be trusted for shit when they are living under the bitch's thumb. Therefore, I want to know that you kept your word yesterday. I need to know that. I need you to demand an accounting from me for yesterday. That last part is most important to me, so read it again. So really, yesterday counts damn near as much as today. Sure, that may not be quitter 101 appropriate material, but its a fact. That is why when I post:
zam -172 quit today
That is me promising to quit today, and telling you I kept my word yesterday. I'll treat today as day one, ANOTHER day one, my 172nd consecutive day one. THAT is why I post my quit number.
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I don't fully understand what my responsibilities are as a new quitter on this site. If someone could send me an inbox, it'd be greatly appreciated.
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G25 hit on something that I've been thinking about lately:
Quitting for you and you alone IS the best way to go. It IS the best way for your family, your loved ones. We (as a society, or just as a bunch of macho blow hards) don't like to think of "ourselves first." It's not in our nature. We're taught from a young age to put others first. Ironically, that can kill you, and cause pain for those that you purport to be putting "first."
Do I expect you to chose to post roll over an ice cream with the kids? It should never come to this, but yes, I do. why? Because that "selfish act" of putting yourself first is the MATURE thing to do. It's the adult thing to do, as we are the ones supposedly making the decisions not on instant gratification, but on the long term benefits.
Nothing wrong with quitting for you and you alone. And as Grizzly25 said in another thread: your loved ones benefit greatly from all your quitting. They are probably secretly praying that you will be selfish enough to want, all for yourself, freedom from a horrible habit, freedom from constant health scares, etc, etc.
What happens when you put Junior FIRST. You are doing IT ALL for Junior. Then you go out with some whale client who whips out a tin, slaps you on the back and offers you a go? I hope you are selfish enough to risk Jr's college fund to stay clean. Extreme example? yes, but the logic holds.
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One other observation today: I'm finding that it is becoming increasing difficult to distinguish between a run of the mill bad mood, everyday normal bouts of anxiety, and craves.
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One other observation today:Â I'm finding that it is becoming increasing difficult to distinguish between a run of the mill bad mood, everyday normal bouts of anxiety, and craves.
Is this a good or bad thing? I'm a noob....45 days...
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One other observation today:Â Â I'm finding that it is becoming increasing difficult to distinguish between a run of the mill bad mood, everyday normal bouts of anxiety, and craves.
Is this a good or bad thing? I'm a noob....45 days...
I think it's a good thing. I'll have to think about how to better put it. Maybe I'll come back and edit this later, but here goes:
I guess what I meant was this: Day 3 for example, I knew EXACTLY why I felt like shit, was wound up tight, anxious, etc. Now I'll get anxious, it just . . . me being anxious. Not related to nicotine and/or oral addictions. Anxious about my job, or the fact that I don't have an anniversary card yet, etc. NORMAL stuff. Not nicotine induced stuff. I had forgotten that NORMAL (non-nic addicts) people sometimes feel anxious (crave something).
I havent' thought this through yet, but anxious is different now. As a ninja dipper, I HAD to constantly worry about how I'd get my next hit. I now realize that before I was quit, I was ALWAYS anxious. That constant anxiety carried over into EVERYTHING in daily life. Example: The nic-bitch reminds me that I am "past due" for a dip, so anxiety starts to build as I look for a way to get my fix. If I am talking to your wife at that time about a new deck, that dip anxiety transfers to the deck discussion. And the conversation is clipped at best. Possibly an argument ensues and I walk off, and yes, walk off to get my fix. Now. . . .I still get anxious occasionally, but it seem to be over shit that is . . .well . . .normal.
Edit: Diesel, Let me be PERFECTLY clear. Day 176 is so much better than 100, which was SO much better than 50, that I literally can not describe it to you adequately. It it a good thing? It's all good. Really.
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One other observation today:Â Â I'm finding that it is becoming increasing difficult to distinguish between a run of the mill bad mood, everyday normal bouts of anxiety, and craves.
Is this a good or bad thing? I'm a noob....45 days...
I don't know if it is a good thing or a bad thing but it is reality. And I'll throw my 2 cents in on it. I believe that the main reason that it is so difficult to determine what is going on is because we have been self medicating our brain for so long that we really can't recognize what life should be like. Like many of you I have never really had any adult life experiences without nicotine. (that's 35 yrs. supposedly as an adult) Now we have got to learn to be adults, learn to live, learn to discover what life without nicotine is like, experience everything that we understood about life in a completely different light. Our addicted mind will try to tell us that we need the nicotine to feel normal. (true we need it to feel the way that we have become accustomed to feeling) But we are now nicotine free and are learning to live that way!! The process isn't fast, it may not be easy but damn it is rewarding!
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One other observation today:Â Â I'm finding that it is becoming increasing difficult to distinguish between a run of the mill bad mood, everyday normal bouts of anxiety, and craves.
Is this a good or bad thing? I'm a noob....45 days...
I think it's a good thing. I'll have to think about how to better put it. Maybe I'll come back and edit this later, but here goes:
I guess what I meant was this: Day 3 for example, I knew EXACTLY why I felt like shit, was wound up tight, anxious, etc. Now I'll get anxious, it just . . . me being anxious. Not related to nicotine and/or oral addictions. Anxious about my job, or the fact that I don't have an anniversary card yet, etc. NORMAL stuff. Not nicotine induced stuff. I had forgotten that NORMAL (non-nic addicts) people sometimes feel anxious (crave something).
I havent' thought this through yet, but anxious is different now. As a ninja dipper, I HAD to constantly worry about how I'd get my next hit. I now realize that before I was quit, I was ALWAYS anxious. That constant anxiety carried over into EVERYTHING in daily life. Example: The nic-bitch reminds me that I am "past due" for a dip, so anxiety starts to build as I look for a way to get my fix. If I am talking to your wife at that time about a new deck, that dip anxiety transfers to the deck discussion. And the conversation is clipped at best. Possibly an argument ensues and I walk off, and yes, walk off to get my fix. Now. . . .I still get anxious occasionally, but it seem to be over shit that is . . .well . . .normal.
Edit: Diesel, Let me be PERFECTLY clear. Day 176 is so much better than 100, which was SO much better than 50, that I literally can not describe it to you adequately. It it a good thing? It's all good. Really.
Thanks Zam. That actually does make sense and is actually kind of comforting. Ive had anxiety issues that I thought I was moving forward with but take a step back sometimes which leads me to think I'm going crazy or something. I too was ninja and what u say makes sense. I have to relearn a lot of things, even very basic ones. That process is scary to me and overwhelms me with fear sometimes. I can do it!!! I think I need more time as 45 days compared to 15 yrs is still a piss poor ratio. Thanks. Thanks to Wt as well for helping me understand anxiety better by sharing his experiences as well.
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One other observation today:Â Â I'm finding that it is becoming increasing difficult to distinguish between a run of the mill bad mood, everyday normal bouts of anxiety, and craves.
Is this a good or bad thing? I'm a noob....45 days...
I think it's a good thing. I'll have to think about how to better put it. Maybe I'll come back and edit this later, but here goes:
I guess what I meant was this: Day 3 for example, I knew EXACTLY why I felt like shit, was wound up tight, anxious, etc. Now I'll get anxious, it just . . . me being anxious. Not related to nicotine and/or oral addictions. Anxious about my job, or the fact that I don't have an anniversary card yet, etc. NORMAL stuff. Not nicotine induced stuff. I had forgotten that NORMAL (non-nic addicts) people sometimes feel anxious (crave something).
I havent' thought this through yet, but anxious is different now. As a ninja dipper, I HAD to constantly worry about how I'd get my next hit. I now realize that before I was quit, I was ALWAYS anxious. That constant anxiety carried over into EVERYTHING in daily life. Example: The nic-bitch reminds me that I am "past due" for a dip, so anxiety starts to build as I look for a way to get my fix. If I am talking to your wife at that time about a new deck, that dip anxiety transfers to the deck discussion. And the conversation is clipped at best. Possibly an argument ensues and I walk off, and yes, walk off to get my fix. Now. . . .I still get anxious occasionally, but it seem to be over shit that is . . .well . . .normal.
Edit: Diesel, Let me be PERFECTLY clear. Day 176 is so much better than 100, which was SO much better than 50, that I literally can not describe it to you adequately. It it a good thing? It's all good. Really.
Thanks Zam. That actually does make sense and is actually kind of comforting. Ive had anxiety issues that I thought I was moving forward with but take a step back sometimes which leads me to think I'm going crazy or something. I too was ninja and what u say makes sense. I have to relearn a lot of things, even very basic ones. That process is scary to me and overwhelms me with fear sometimes. I can do it!!! I think I need more time as 45 days compared to 15 yrs is still a piss poor ratio. Thanks. Thanks to Wt as well for helping me understand anxiety better by sharing his experiences as well.
Zam... that is a very interesting thought, and I feel the same way. Many people that have been quit for a while tend to feel that as long as they have been quit, then there life should be honky dory. I feel that many times it is not necessarily a crave, but just the person is having a bad day or they are anxious about something. Both of these just naturally occur. I think that in the old days most of us thought that tobacco helped out with these types of events and that is why most relate these times with a crave, when in fact it isn't a crave. On the other hand, one of the main reasons that I quit using tobacco was that my nerves constantly stayed torn up. Before using tobacco, I never really became nervous. Since quitting, I have seen a major decline in the amount of nervous episodes.... Just some words for thought.
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 From another intro thread. It made me think a little, and I posted here because I didn't want to hijack the new quitters thread One thing of note you wont hear my blaming tobacco companies for my addiction. Thats like the meth addict blaming the dealer. I knew it was addictive I stopped for over a year before and then started again. I am the one to blame for my addiction not tobacco companies.
You won't score any points here putting the shithole tobacco companies on a pedestal. They ALWAYS have made money off your ass by selling a highly addictive product, and mercilessly marketing it to you and your (future) children.
And fuck the meth dealer, too. That's some shitty logic, bro. You think the people and companies that supply this shit have no culpability, and you are entirely at fault?
Don't let mthomas catch wind of this BS.
Stay strong in the meantime.
My point was that blaming others for my problems is just a way to perpetuate the problem. At no point in time did I put tobacco companies on a pedastal. I just don't think blaming other people for my addiction to nicotine is the way to truly escape this addiction. Face it head on, smash through it, and be done with it.
I like the attitude.
Quit today. Look forward to your next roll post tomorrow.
Although it pains me greatly to say so :o , I agree with carumba. There will ALWAYS be a bogey man. Take away UST and nicotine and there will be another entity right there ready to clamp on the ball and chain. Hell, I think UST and the gang are pretty slimy, but so is the guy down the road financing a washer/dryer at about 75%. Do I think UST took advantage of my laziness and irresponsibiliy? Yep. Do I "blame" them for my addiction? No
blame/blÄm/Verb: Assign responsibility for a fault or wrong.
In order for me to "blame" UST for 27+ years of idiocy, I would have to acknowledge that they were responsible for a series of dumb-ass decisions. If they were responsible for my decisions 190 days ago, why are they not responsible for those decisions tomorrow? If my logic is correct, UST has and still has control over my tobacco decision. Or they NEVER had control.
The big thing that KTC has taught me is this: Nicotine was NEVER in control. UST never made me dip. Krispy Creme didn't make me fat. What KTC did for me was to remind me that I was the one in control then, and I'm the one in control now. If the gobernint shut down UST and the like today, and burned every gram of tobacco, would the lessons learned here at KTC no longer be needed? Would those tobacco users just decide that there was no way now to feed the addiction and give up? Or would they turn to some Pfizer or Ben Jerry's product?
-
  From another intro thread. It made me think a little, and I posted here because I didn't want to hijack the new quitters thread One thing of note you wont hear my blaming tobacco companies for my addiction. Thats like the meth addict blaming the dealer. I knew it was addictive I stopped for over a year before and then started again. I am the one to blame for my addiction not tobacco companies.
You won't score any points here putting the shithole tobacco companies on a pedestal. They ALWAYS have made money off your ass by selling a highly addictive product, and mercilessly marketing it to you and your (future) children.
And fuck the meth dealer, too. That's some shitty logic, bro. You think the people and companies that supply this shit have no culpability, and you are entirely at fault?
Don't let mthomas catch wind of this BS.
Stay strong in the meantime.
My point was that blaming others for my problems is just a way to perpetuate the problem. At no point in time did I put tobacco companies on a pedastal. I just don't think blaming other people for my addiction to nicotine is the way to truly escape this addiction. Face it head on, smash through it, and be done with it.
I like the attitude.
Quit today. Look forward to your next roll post tomorrow.
Although it pains me greatly to say so :o , I agree with carumba. There will ALWAYS be a bogey man. Take away UST and nicotine and there will be another entity right there ready to clamp on the ball and chain. Hell, I think UST and the gang are pretty slimy, but so is the guy down the road financing a washer/dryer at about 75%. Do I think UST took advantage of my laziness and irresponsibiliy? Yep. Do I "blame" them for my addiction? No
blame/blÄm/Verb: Assign responsibility for a fault or wrong.
In order for me to "blame" UST for 27+ years of idiocy, I would have to acknowledge that they were responsible for a series of dumb-ass decisions. If they were responsible for my decisions 190 days ago, why are they not responsible for those decisions tomorrow? If my logic is correct, UST has and still has control over my tobacco decision. Or they NEVER had control.
The big thing that KTC has taught me is this: Nicotine was NEVER in control. UST never made me dip. Krispy Creme didn't make me fat. What KTC did for me was to remind me that I was the one in control then, and I'm the one in control now. If the gobernint shut down UST and the like today, and burned every gram of tobacco, would the lessons learned here at KTC no longer be needed? Would those tobacco users just decide that there was no way now to feed the addiction and give up? Or would they turn to some Pfizer or Ben Jerry's product?
Zam,
You just enlightened, encouraged, and gave me quit wood. No Pfizer product needed. (Not that I ever needed it....it was for a friend) :ph43r:
-
-
I wrote a long explanation an decided to edit it.Â
If you want an explanation pm me and I'll send it to you.Â
I blame ust and the blood of the addicted is splattered on their hands!Â
I was a child when I became an addict. Most of us were.Â
I am not going to argue disagree or think about it. I studied it, I am at war with them for the rest of my life. My mind is made up.Â
This terrorist organization is responsible for the deaths of 3million people a year.Â
Anyone who sympathizes, understands or doesn't hold tobacco to account for their acts to addict children to their product is not my friend. I don't bullshit. In this life if you take a stand, you will have enemies.Â
I stand tall and UST is my ENIMY! Yes I chose to dip. A little child may also chose to go to the nice mans van to see his puppies too! I blame them for deceiving me as a child to get me addicted for life.Â
Those fuckers kidnaped my spirit and my potential. Lookup Stockholm Syndrome. It's time to embrace the suck and see the reality of the tobacco industry.
Although I respect the thought, I believe mark's argument suffers from something like the "straw man" fallacy. At any rate, we have here, in my opinion, two separate, two independent questions: "Who is ulitimately respnsible?" And "does UST and the like cross moral, if not legal boundaries?"
My answer to the first question is ME. One good reason to take this view is that any other view puts you in a situation where your fate is not even worth wasting though on. It's pointless. The Lord gave me the responsibility to accept Him or not, so I can't imagine He didn't give me the same ability when it came to tobacco. My answer to the second question is "yes.". But they (big tobacco) are only a little worse than every billion calorie snack that plasters "LOW FAT!!" and a picture of a superhero on the wrapper. Statistically, I'll bet pushing marketing apple juice on children does as much harm overall as tobacco marketing.
And I understand what you are insinuating by saying about "became an addict as a child.". But statistics don't bear this out. Unless you consider 20.1 years old a child.
Just for the record, I am NOT defending big tobacco. Beware of the straw man argument. Logic does not link my my belief in who is responsible with any prcieved sympathy for big tobacco. And yes, if you have the longer version, PM it to me. Or post it hear, its OK with me. I'm up for a good discussion. Lord knows my brain needs exercise!
-
I wrote a long explanation an decided to edit it.Â
If you want an explanation pm me and I'll send it to you.Â
I blame ust and the blood of the addicted is splattered on their hands!Â
I was a child when I became an addict. Most of us were.Â
I am not going to argue disagree or think about it. I studied it, I am at war with them for the rest of my life. My mind is made up.Â
This terrorist organization is responsible for the deaths of 3million people a year.Â
Anyone who sympathizes, understands or doesn't hold tobacco to account for their acts to addict children to their product is not my friend. I don't bullshit. In this life if you take a stand, you will have enemies.Â
I stand tall and UST is my ENIMY! Yes I chose to dip. A little child may also chose to go to the nice mans van to see his puppies too! I blame them for deceiving me as a child to get me addicted for life.Â
Those fuckers kidnaped my spirit and my potential. Lookup Stockholm Syndrome. It's time to embrace the suck and see the reality of the tobacco industry.
Although I respect the thought, I believe mark's argument suffers from something like the "straw man" fallacy. At any rate, we have here, in my opinion, two separate questions: "Who is ulitimately respnsible?" And "does UST and the like cross moral, if not legal boundaries?"
My answer to the first question is ME. One good reason to take this view is that any other view puts you in a situation where your fate is not even worth wasting though on. It's pointless. The Lord gave me the responsibility to accept Him or not, so I can't imagine He didn't give me the same ability when it came to tobacco. My answer to the second question is "yes.". But they (big tobacco) are only a little worse than every billion calorie snack that plasters "LOW FAT!!" and a picture of a superhero on the wrapper. Statistically, I'll bet pushing marketing apple juice on children does as much harm overall as tobacco marketing.
And I understand what you are insinuating by saying about "became an addict as a child.". But statistics don't bear this out. Unless you consider 20.1 years old a child.
Just for the record, I am NOT defending big tobacco. And yes, if you have the longer version, PM it to me. Or post it hear, its OK with me. I'm up for a good discussion. Lord knows my brain needs exercise!
If this is true, let's remove the ability of states and the feds to tax the shit out of tobacco and vacate the suits and return the billions in damages. Let's let them resume magazine, billboard, and bring back TV ads! We've wrongly persecuted and victimized that industry, users have been in control all along.
What a revelation, everyone is in control now! I'm buying tobacco stock!
Sorry for the Sarcasm, Zam, but I'm bitter about this topic.
:)
-
I wrote a long explanation an decided to edit it.Â
If you want an explanation pm me and I'll send it to you.Â
I blame ust and the blood of the addicted is splattered on their hands!Â
I was a child when I became an addict. Most of us were.Â
I am not going to argue disagree or think about it. I studied it, I am at war with them for the rest of my life. My mind is made up.Â
This terrorist organization is responsible for the deaths of 3million people a year.Â
Anyone who sympathizes, understands or doesn't hold tobacco to account for their acts to addict children to their product is not my friend. I don't bullshit. In this life if you take a stand, you will have enemies.Â
I stand tall and UST is my ENIMY! Yes I chose to dip. A little child may also chose to go to the nice mans van to see his puppies too! I blame them for deceiving me as a child to get me addicted for life.Â
Those fuckers kidnaped my spirit and my potential. Lookup Stockholm Syndrome. It's time to embrace the suck and see the reality of the tobacco industry.
Although I respect the thought, I believe mark's argument suffers from something like the "straw man" fallacy. At any rate, we have here, in my opinion, two separate questions: "Who is ulitimately respnsible?" And "does UST and the like cross moral, if not legal boundaries?"
My answer to the first question is ME. One good reason to take this view is that any other view puts you in a situation where your fate is not even worth wasting though on. It's pointless. The Lord gave me the responsibility to accept Him or not, so I can't imagine He didn't give me the same ability when it came to tobacco. My answer to the second question is "yes.". But they (big tobacco) are only a little worse than every billion calorie snack that plasters "LOW FAT!!" and a picture of a superhero on the wrapper. Statistically, I'll bet pushing marketing apple juice on children does as much harm overall as tobacco marketing.
And I understand what you are insinuating by saying about "became an addict as a child.". But statistics don't bear this out. Unless you consider 20.1 years old a child.
Just for the record, I am NOT defending big tobacco. And yes, if you have the longer version, PM it to me. Or post it hear, its OK with me. I'm up for a good discussion. Lord knows my brain needs exercise!
If this is true, let's remove the ability of states and the feds to tax the shit out of tobacco and vacate the suits and return the billions in damages. Let's let them resume magazine, billboard, and bring back TV ads! We've wrongly persecuted and victimized that industry, users have been in control all along.
What a revelation, everyone is in control now! I'm buying tobacco stock!
Sorry for the Sarcasm, Zam, but I'm bitter about this topic.
:)
Hey guys, I get it. But my point comes back to this: if the scenario you sarcastically mock happens, am I doomed to a life of nicotine? Should I just sigh, walk down to the c-store and stop fighting the inevitable? Or do I stand up and say FUCK YOU, as KTC has reminded me is my option.
For me the only emotional part of this discussion is the exasperation I feel when someone wants to go to war with UST (which I get), but without a thought gives their cash daily to support the local nic pusher when they buy gas or groceries. .. When someone demands some lawsuit on a faceless entity but won't confront the lady in the checkout line next to them about them teaching their kids to be good future addicts.
-
{mental note - after the big tobacco topic dies out, post a rant about the new trend of "numbering" quitters ala June/July}
-
I wrote a long explanation an decided to edit it.Â
If you want an explanation pm me and I'll send it to you.Â
I blame ust and the blood of the addicted is splattered on their hands!Â
I was a child when I became an addict. Most of us were.Â
I am not going to argue disagree or think about it. I studied it, I am at war with them for the rest of my life. My mind is made up.Â
This terrorist organization is responsible for the deaths of 3million people a year.Â
Anyone who sympathizes, understands or doesn't hold tobacco to account for their acts to addict children to their product is not my friend. I don't bullshit. In this life if you take a stand, you will have enemies.Â
I stand tall and UST is my ENIMY! Yes I chose to dip. A little child may also chose to go to the nice mans van to see his puppies too! I blame them for deceiving me as a child to get me addicted for life.Â
Those fuckers kidnaped my spirit and my potential. Lookup Stockholm Syndrome. It's time to embrace the suck and see the reality of the tobacco industry.
Although I respect the thought, I believe mark's argument suffers from something like the "straw man" fallacy. At any rate, we have here, in my opinion, two separate questions: "Who is ulitimately respnsible?" And "does UST and the like cross moral, if not legal boundaries?"
My answer to the first question is ME. One good reason to take this view is that any other view puts you in a situation where your fate is not even worth wasting though on. It's pointless. The Lord gave me the responsibility to accept Him or not, so I can't imagine He didn't give me the same ability when it came to tobacco. My answer to the second question is "yes.". But they (big tobacco) are only a little worse than every billion calorie snack that plasters "LOW FAT!!" and a picture of a superhero on the wrapper. Statistically, I'll bet pushing marketing apple juice on children does as much harm overall as tobacco marketing.
And I understand what you are insinuating by saying about "became an addict as a child.". But statistics don't bear this out. Unless you consider 20.1 years old a child.
Just for the record, I am NOT defending big tobacco. And yes, if you have the longer version, PM it to me. Or post it hear, its OK with me. I'm up for a good discussion. Lord knows my brain needs exercise!
If this is true, let's remove the ability of states and the feds to tax the shit out of tobacco and vacate the suits and return the billions in damages. Let's let them resume magazine, billboard, and bring back TV ads! We've wrongly persecuted and victimized that industry, users have been in control all along.
What a revelation, everyone is in control now! I'm buying tobacco stock!
Sorry for the Sarcasm, Zam, but I'm bitter about this topic.
:)
Hey guys, I get it. But my point comes back to this: if the scenario you sarcastically mock happens, am I doomed to a life of nicotine? Should I just sigh, walk down to the c-store and stop fighting the inevitable? Or do I stand up and say FUCK YOU, as KTC has reminded me is my option.
For me the only emotional part of this discussion is the exasperation I feel when someone wants to go to war with UST (which I get), but without a thought gives their cash daily to support the local nic pusher when they buy gas or groceries. .. When someone demands some lawsuit on a faceless entity but won't confront the lady in the checkout line next to them about them teaching their kids to be good future addicts.
What are we even arguing about here?
I started dipping at a baseball camp when I was 15 years old. I don't blame the game of baseball for my addiction even though tobacco is prevalent in the game.
So what about the people who have never tried tobacco or never got addicted? Are these people simply immune to the evil tobacco industries attempts to hook them? Or did they make the right choice at the right time?
I blame myself. Leveling blame and hatred upon external forces does nothing to help me stay quit.
-
1,2,3....Gone
-
I wrote a long explanation an decided to edit it.Â
If you want an explanation pm me and I'll send it to you.Â
I blame ust and the blood of the addicted is splattered on their hands!Â
I was a child when I became an addict. Most of us were.Â
I am not going to argue disagree or think about it. I studied it, I am at war with them for the rest of my life. My mind is made up.Â
This terrorist organization is responsible for the deaths of 3million people a year.Â
Anyone who sympathizes, understands or doesn't hold tobacco to account for their acts to addict children to their product is not my friend. I don't bullshit. In this life if you take a stand, you will have enemies.Â
I stand tall and UST is my ENIMY! Yes I chose to dip. A little child may also chose to go to the nice mans van to see his puppies too! I blame them for deceiving me as a child to get me addicted for life.Â
Those fuckers kidnaped my spirit and my potential. Lookup Stockholm Syndrome. It's time to embrace the suck and see the reality of the tobacco industry.
Although I respect the thought, I believe mark's argument suffers from something like the "straw man" fallacy. At any rate, we have here, in my opinion, two separate questions: "Who is ulitimately respnsible?" And "does UST and the like cross moral, if not legal boundaries?"
My answer to the first question is ME. One good reason to take this view is that any other view puts you in a situation where your fate is not even worth wasting though on. It's pointless. The Lord gave me the responsibility to accept Him or not, so I can't imagine He didn't give me the same ability when it came to tobacco. My answer to the second question is "yes.". But they (big tobacco) are only a little worse than every billion calorie snack that plasters "LOW FAT!!" and a picture of a superhero on the wrapper. Statistically, I'll bet pushing marketing apple juice on children does as much harm overall as tobacco marketing.
And I understand what you are insinuating by saying about "became an addict as a child.". But statistics don't bear this out. Unless you consider 20.1 years old a child.
Just for the record, I am NOT defending big tobacco. And yes, if you have the longer version, PM it to me. Or post it hear, its OK with me. I'm up for a good discussion. Lord knows my brain needs exercise!
If this is true, let's remove the ability of states and the feds to tax the shit out of tobacco and vacate the suits and return the billions in damages. Let's let them resume magazine, billboard, and bring back TV ads! We've wrongly persecuted and victimized that industry, users have been in control all along.
What a revelation, everyone is in control now! I'm buying tobacco stock!
Sorry for the Sarcasm, Zam, but I'm bitter about this topic.
:)
Hey guys, I get it. But my point comes back to this: if the scenario you sarcastically mock happens, am I doomed to a life of nicotine? Should I just sigh, walk down to the c-store and stop fighting the inevitable? Or do I stand up and say FUCK YOU, as KTC has reminded me is my option.
For me the only emotional part of this discussion is the exasperation I feel when someone wants to go to war with UST (which I get), but without a thought gives their cash daily to support the local nic pusher when they buy gas or groceries. .. When someone demands some lawsuit on a faceless entity but won't confront the lady in the checkout line next to them about them teaching their kids to be good future addicts.
Sigh. Deep Breath......
Horse Shit is being spoken here!
UST is not a victim. They are a predator.
Selling a product isn't always buyer beware people. Corporations have an obligation to its customers, country and common law practices. Con artists deceive and well con people into making money and they are liable when caught!
Bernie Madoff? He scammed people out of money. Is the investor to blame? With the information given by Madoff, he knowingly screwed people out of their money.
What about Fen Phen? People rushed to a miracle drug for weight loss. It caused heart valve damage. Did Wyeth-Ayerst Laboratories knowing that it caused heart valve damage still pimp its product? This drug causes ir-repairable heart damage and was removed from the market. Why, because it kills!
Lutwak wrote on September 24, 1996, “If this hurts the sales, so be it. The company has gotten away with much manipulation these past 3 years, of the public, of the press, of the FDA.” He continued to describe his frustration in an email describing the difficulties he had with fen phen and the FDA saying, “I started getting upset about this drug in ’93 or ’94 and was running into a lot of blocks from the FDA and from the drug company.”
If you were overweight and the product Fen Phen was prescribed by your doctor to cure weight and the drug company duped the FDA which mislead doctors to prescribe and preyed on your trust. Your choice to use the product was a manipulation or calculated lies.
How about Pacific Gas and Electric litigation? The case alleged contamination of drinking water with hexavalent chromium, also known as chromium (VI), in the southern California town of Hinkley. The case was settled in 1996 for US$333 million, the largest settlement ever paid in a direct action lawsuit in US history. I love the part in the movie when Erin offers them water after they swore the water was drinkable. She said, this is water you said was drinkable. I have it brought here for you to drink in this meeting. They didn't touch it. Even though they swore it was not harmful......
Master Tobacco Settlement Agreement look that up.
The heart of the question here is, do companies have an obligation to release the dangers of their product? Can a company coverup and conceal health risks and danger to save stock prices and an industry?
Common Law Doctrine that my country follows in the Judicial System tells me that they are liable for misleading coverups and knowingly putting lives at risks.
Hell these companies agree by settling for this amount of money!!!! What company would pay theses penalties if there wasn't some admission of guilt????
We can take many angles. With the education and knowledge we have, the choice is our blame. The labels have warnings and we still are free to choose. If we do so, we own it. I concur.
However, the Tobacco industry is not guiltless. They are liable for misleading, blatant coverups and denial of facts! They agreed to change their marketing practices in exchange that no individual can sue them directly now. They write a check to the Government for protection. It is dirty!
So give me all the examples of wrong doings. That doesn't take away the UST responsibility or blame for killing and destroying lives!
Common Law shows that they knowingly mislead and marketed their product to children. Mcdonald's to my knowledge never denied getting market share by marketing their product to children.
That my friends is the lie. UST wants your children to buy and use their product even though it is illegal! Don't ever cut them slack by saying we had a choice!
They are con artists after children. They have no fault???? Really?
Well fuck me then. Let the companies knowingly let carcinogens seep into drinking water. No more recalls on car's that explode or tires that blow out. Let every drug come to market and screw the buried research. I chose to take a pill. If I make 30k and a bank gives me a loan for a 500k house. I am the responsible one for them telling me that I am qualified. (That is the closest argument to us being fully responsible for our choice, however if your loan officer knowingly qualifies you without informing you that you're fucked. They have some burden too! )
So yes we chose to dip. However, our choice was made from intentional misleading information. FUCK US TOBACCO! Never sympathize with them.
They have blood spattered hands. Until they fold, they always will. They share the burden and blame for taking loved ones too early. Who else is to blame? Those who aid and promote this product. Advertising agency that will accept their filthy lucre to send out propaganda adds. The government that accepts a payout to prevent individual lawsuits. The parents who use in front of kids. Coaches and professional athletes that think they aren't role models and its a fucking individual choice!!!!
If you knew that your drinking water was contaminated and your risk to have painful tumors was a possibility, would you drink it? If I told you that my drinking water was safe would you take me at my word?
So you can't make a horse drink but if you offer tainted water for them to drink aren't you holding some fault????
I blame US Tobacco for 3 million deaths per year. I will until they fold. The only good I ever linked to tobacco was for helping heal wounds on animals. Don't even know if that is true. So without any real benefits to man, tobacco is a noxious weed and kills. They should till it in the ground and fold up shop. Until then watch their expansion into Indonesia. They aren't educated about tobacco. They are in the dark like America was 30 years ago. With little laws on pimping their product, that is where they are increasing market share!!! They aren't held to the same advertising standards.
Watch an epidemic of cancer hit Indonesia. Once they begin learning the truth about tobacco and the false propaganda by UST, are you going to say those individuals had a choice and UST is just a business????
I don't care if it is American. The UST companies are a worldwide terrorist organization. They kill 3 million people a year and it is going to increase in Indonesia!
They knowingly kill! Money is more important than your life. They will and can replace you so they aren't concerned about losing a customer. If you quit or die, they recruit 5 more to take your place. Yes their market is still children. Boys between 6th and 9th grade is their market.
Sure look the other way and say, "I chose to chew." UST would applaud you for owning the liability and responsibility of the product they sell. Also, check your figures, I think that 20.1 is not the average age starting. I think that is the average age using tobacco. Many of us here are older than 30, to balance the average, how many users are under 20?
Honestly I don't think I can change your mind and I don't think I will. However for all those that are quitting tobacco that read this, they must know that your thoughts are not the full story of blame.
BTW: I am speaking up because I couldn't be silent and let anyone assume that I agreed that I am 100% to blame for chewing tobacco.
Why do we even have laws on the books called, contributing to the delinquency of minors. If there is no culpability and we all made a choice.
I am done ranting but want it known the UST should have blame for the deaths linked to their product.
My final two cents:
Zam, was it really your free-will choice to quit when it took joining a ragtag website called KTC.org and banning together with a bunch of other addicts strewn across the country who could not quit on their own?
And prior to becoming the badass quitter that you are, you say you consciously decided to buy, use, and run your life around that shit for years and years and years when you probably didn't want to anymore?
-
My final two cents:
Zam, was it really your free-will choice to quit when it took joining a ragtag website called KTC.org and banning together with a bunch of other addicts strewn across the country who could not quit on their own?
And prior to becoming the badass quitter that you are, you say you consciously decided to buy, use, and run your life around that shit for years and years and years when you probably didn't want to anymore?
Russ, if I understand your question correctly, the answer is yes, and definitely yes.
-
I wrote a long explanation an decided to edit it.Â
If you want an explanation pm me and I'll send it to you.Â
I blame ust and the blood of the addicted is splattered on their hands!Â
I was a child when I became an addict. Most of us were.Â
I am not going to argue disagree or think about it. I studied it, I am at war with them for the rest of my life. My mind is made up.Â
This terrorist organization is responsible for the deaths of 3million people a year.Â
Anyone who sympathizes, understands or doesn't hold tobacco to account for their acts to addict children to their product is not my friend. I don't bullshit. In this life if you take a stand, you will have enemies.Â
I stand tall and UST is my ENIMY! Yes I chose to dip. A little child may also chose to go to the nice mans van to see his puppies too! I blame them for deceiving me as a child to get me addicted for life.Â
Those fuckers kidnaped my spirit and my potential. Lookup Stockholm Syndrome. It's time to embrace the suck and see the reality of the tobacco industry.
Although I respect the thought, I believe mark's argument suffers from something like the "straw man" fallacy. At any rate, we have here, in my opinion, two separate questions: "Who is ulitimately respnsible?" And "does UST and the like cross moral, if not legal boundaries?"
My answer to the first question is ME. One good reason to take this view is that any other view puts you in a situation where your fate is not even worth wasting though on. It's pointless. The Lord gave me the responsibility to accept Him or not, so I can't imagine He didn't give me the same ability when it came to tobacco. My answer to the second question is "yes.". But they (big tobacco) are only a little worse than every billion calorie snack that plasters "LOW FAT!!" and a picture of a superhero on the wrapper. Statistically, I'll bet pushing marketing apple juice on children does as much harm overall as tobacco marketing.
And I understand what you are insinuating by saying about "became an addict as a child.". But statistics don't bear this out. Unless you consider 20.1 years old a child.
Just for the record, I am NOT defending big tobacco. And yes, if you have the longer version, PM it to me. Or post it hear, its OK with me. I'm up for a good discussion. Lord knows my brain needs exercise!
If this is true, let's remove the ability of states and the feds to tax the shit out of tobacco and vacate the suits and return the billions in damages. Let's let them resume magazine, billboard, and bring back TV ads! We've wrongly persecuted and victimized that industry, users have been in control all along.
What a revelation, everyone is in control now! I'm buying tobacco stock!
Sorry for the Sarcasm, Zam, but I'm bitter about this topic.
:)
Hey guys, I get it. But my point comes back to this: if the scenario you sarcastically mock happens, am I doomed to a life of nicotine? Should I just sigh, walk down to the c-store and stop fighting the inevitable? Or do I stand up and say FUCK YOU, as KTC has reminded me is my option.
For me the only emotional part of this discussion is the exasperation I feel when someone wants to go to war with UST (which I get), but without a thought gives their cash daily to support the local nic pusher when they buy gas or groceries. .. When someone demands some lawsuit on a faceless entity but won't confront the lady in the checkout line next to them about them teaching their kids to be good future addicts.
Sigh. Deep Breath......
Horse Shit is being spoken here!
UST is not a victim. They are a predator.
Selling a product isn't always buyer beware people. Corporations have an obligation to its customers, country and common law practices. Con artists deceive and well con people into making money and they are liable when caught!
Bernie Madoff? He scammed people out of money. Is the investor to blame? With the information given by Madoff, he knowingly screwed people out of their money.
What about Fen Phen? People rushed to a miracle drug for weight loss. It caused heart valve damage. Did Wyeth-Ayerst Laboratories knowing that it caused heart valve damage still pimp its product? This drug causes ir-repairable heart damage and was removed from the market. Why, because it kills!
Lutwak wrote on September 24, 1996, “If this hurts the sales, so be it. The company has gotten away with much manipulation these past 3 years, of the public, of the press, of the FDA.” He continued to describe his frustration in an email describing the difficulties he had with fen phen and the FDA saying, “I started getting upset about this drug in ’93 or ’94 and was running into a lot of blocks from the FDA and from the drug company.”
If you were overweight and the product Fen Phen was prescribed by your doctor to cure weight and the drug company duped the FDA which mislead doctors to prescribe and preyed on your trust. Your choice to use the product was a manipulation or calculated lies.
How about Pacific Gas and Electric litigation? The case alleged contamination of drinking water with hexavalent chromium, also known as chromium (VI), in the southern California town of Hinkley. The case was settled in 1996 for US$333 million, the largest settlement ever paid in a direct action lawsuit in US history. I love the part in the movie when Erin offers them water after they swore the water was drinkable. She said, this is water you said was drinkable. I have it brought here for you to drink in this meeting. They didn't touch it. Even though they swore it was not harmful......
Master Tobacco Settlement Agreement look that up.
The heart of the question here is, do companies have an obligation to release the dangers of their product? Can a company coverup and conceal health risks and danger to save stock prices and an industry?
Common Law Doctrine that my country follows in the Judicial System tells me that they are liable for misleading coverups and knowingly putting lives at risks.
Hell these companies agree by settling for this amount of money!!!! What company would pay theses penalties if there wasn't some admission of guilt????
We can take many angles. With the education and knowledge we have, the choice is our blame. The labels have warnings and we still are free to choose. If we do so, we own it. I concur.
However, the Tobacco industry is not guiltless. They are liable for misleading, blatant coverups and denial of facts! They agreed to change their marketing practices in exchange that no individual can sue them directly now. They write a check to the Government for protection. It is dirty!
So give me all the examples of wrong doings. That doesn't take away the UST responsibility or blame for killing and destroying lives!
Common Law shows that they knowingly mislead and marketed their product to children. Mcdonald's to my knowledge never denied getting market share by marketing their product to children.
That my friends is the lie. UST wants your children to buy and use their product even though it is illegal! Don't ever cut them slack by saying we had a choice!
They are con artists after children. They have no fault???? Really?
Well fuck me then. Let the companies knowingly let carcinogens seep into drinking water. No more recalls on car's that explode or tires that blow out. Let every drug come to market and screw the buried research. I chose to take a pill. If I make 30k and a bank gives me a loan for a 500k house. I am the responsible one for them telling me that I am qualified. (That is the closest argument to us being fully responsible for our choice, however if your loan officer knowingly qualifies you without informing you that you're fucked. They have some burden too! )
So yes we chose to dip. However, our choice was made from intentional misleading information. FUCK US TOBACCO! Never sympathize with them.
They have blood spattered hands. Until they fold, they always will. They share the burden and blame for taking loved ones too early. Who else is to blame? Those who aid and promote this product. Advertising agency that will accept their filthy lucre to send out propaganda adds. The government that accepts a payout to prevent individual lawsuits. The parents who use in front of kids. Coaches and professional athletes that think they aren't role models and its a fucking individual choice!!!!
If you knew that your drinking water was contaminated and your risk to have painful tumors was a possibility, would you drink it? If I told you that my drinking water was safe would you take me at my word?
So you can't make a horse drink but if you offer tainted water for them to drink aren't you holding some fault????
I blame US Tobacco for 3 million deaths per year. I will until they fold. The only good I ever linked to tobacco was for helping heal wounds on animals. Don't even know if that is true. So without any real benefits to man, tobacco is a noxious weed and kills. They should till it in the ground and fold up shop. Until then watch their expansion into Indonesia. They aren't educated about tobacco. They are in the dark like America was 30 years ago. With little laws on pimping their product, that is where they are increasing market share!!! They aren't held to the same advertising standards.
Watch an epidemic of cancer hit Indonesia. Once they begin learning the truth about tobacco and the false propaganda by UST, are you going to say those individuals had a choice and UST is just a business????
I don't care if it is American. The UST companies are a worldwide terrorist organization. They kill 3 million people a year and it is going to increase in Indonesia!
They knowingly kill! Money is more important than your life. They will and can replace you so they aren't concerned about losing a customer. If you quit or die, they recruit 5 more to take your place. Yes their market is still children. Boys between 6th and 9th grade is their market.
Sure look the other way and say, "I chose to chew." UST would applaud you for owning the liability and responsibility of the product they sell. Also, check your figures, I think that 20.1 is not the average age starting. I think that is the average age using tobacco. Many of us here are older than 30, to balance the average, how many users are under 20?
Honestly I don't think I can change your mind and I don't think I will. However for all those that are quitting tobacco that read this, they must know that your thoughts are not the full story of blame.
BTW: I am speaking up because I couldn't be silent and let anyone assume that I agreed that I am 100% to blame for chewing tobacco.
Why do we even have laws on the books called, contributing to the delinquency of minors. If there is no culpability and we all made a choice.
I am done ranting but want it known the UST should have blame for the deaths linked to their product.
Oooooooookkaaaaaaayyyy then. I did ask for the full version.
The short version response: We disagree. Frankly, the consequences of your line of thinking frighten me. Slavery to nicotine is not the worst form of slavery.
-
I wrote a long explanation an decided to edit it.Â
If you want an explanation pm me and I'll send it to you.Â
I blame ust and the blood of the addicted is splattered on their hands!Â
I was a child when I became an addict. Most of us were.Â
I am not going to argue disagree or think about it. I studied it, I am at war with them for the rest of my life. My mind is made up.Â
This terrorist organization is responsible for the deaths of 3million people a year.Â
Anyone who sympathizes, understands or doesn't hold tobacco to account for their acts to addict children to their product is not my friend. I don't bullshit. In this life if you take a stand, you will have enemies.Â
I stand tall and UST is my ENIMY! Yes I chose to dip. A little child may also chose to go to the nice mans van to see his puppies too! I blame them for deceiving me as a child to get me addicted for life.Â
Those fuckers kidnaped my spirit and my potential. Lookup Stockholm Syndrome. It's time to embrace the suck and see the reality of the tobacco industry.
Although I respect the thought, I believe mark's argument suffers from something like the "straw man" fallacy. At any rate, we have here, in my opinion, two separate questions: "Who is ulitimately respnsible?" And "does UST and the like cross moral, if not legal boundaries?"
My answer to the first question is ME. One good reason to take this view is that any other view puts you in a situation where your fate is not even worth wasting though on. It's pointless. The Lord gave me the responsibility to accept Him or not, so I can't imagine He didn't give me the same ability when it came to tobacco. My answer to the second question is "yes.". But they (big tobacco) are only a little worse than every billion calorie snack that plasters "LOW FAT!!" and a picture of a superhero on the wrapper. Statistically, I'll bet pushing marketing apple juice on children does as much harm overall as tobacco marketing.
And I understand what you are insinuating by saying about "became an addict as a child.". But statistics don't bear this out. Unless you consider 20.1 years old a child.
Just for the record, I am NOT defending big tobacco. And yes, if you have the longer version, PM it to me. Or post it hear, its OK with me. I'm up for a good discussion. Lord knows my brain needs exercise!
If this is true, let's remove the ability of states and the feds to tax the shit out of tobacco and vacate the suits and return the billions in damages. Let's let them resume magazine, billboard, and bring back TV ads! We've wrongly persecuted and victimized that industry, users have been in control all along.
What a revelation, everyone is in control now! I'm buying tobacco stock!
Sorry for the Sarcasm, Zam, but I'm bitter about this topic.
:)
Hey guys, I get it. But my point comes back to this: if the scenario you sarcastically mock happens, am I doomed to a life of nicotine? Should I just sigh, walk down to the c-store and stop fighting the inevitable? Or do I stand up and say FUCK YOU, as KTC has reminded me is my option.
For me the only emotional part of this discussion is the exasperation I feel when someone wants to go to war with UST (which I get), but without a thought gives their cash daily to support the local nic pusher when they buy gas or groceries. .. When someone demands some lawsuit on a faceless entity but won't confront the lady in the checkout line next to them about them teaching their kids to be good future addicts.
Sigh. Deep Breath......
Horse Shit is being spoken here!
UST is not a victim. They are a predator.
Selling a product isn't always buyer beware people. Corporations have an obligation to its customers, country and common law practices. Con artists deceive and well con people into making money and they are liable when caught!
Bernie Madoff? He scammed people out of money. Is the investor to blame? With the information given by Madoff, he knowingly screwed people out of their money.
What about Fen Phen? People rushed to a miracle drug for weight loss. It caused heart valve damage. Did Wyeth-Ayerst Laboratories knowing that it caused heart valve damage still pimp its product? This drug causes ir-repairable heart damage and was removed from the market. Why, because it kills!
Lutwak wrote on September 24, 1996, “If this hurts the sales, so be it. The company has gotten away with much manipulation these past 3 years, of the public, of the press, of the FDA.” He continued to describe his frustration in an email describing the difficulties he had with fen phen and the FDA saying, “I started getting upset about this drug in ’93 or ’94 and was running into a lot of blocks from the FDA and from the drug company.”
If you were overweight and the product Fen Phen was prescribed by your doctor to cure weight and the drug company duped the FDA which mislead doctors to prescribe and preyed on your trust. Your choice to use the product was a manipulation or calculated lies.
How about Pacific Gas and Electric litigation? The case alleged contamination of drinking water with hexavalent chromium, also known as chromium (VI), in the southern California town of Hinkley. The case was settled in 1996 for US$333 million, the largest settlement ever paid in a direct action lawsuit in US history. I love the part in the movie when Erin offers them water after they swore the water was drinkable. She said, this is water you said was drinkable. I have it brought here for you to drink in this meeting. They didn't touch it. Even though they swore it was not harmful......
Master Tobacco Settlement Agreement look that up.
The heart of the question here is, do companies have an obligation to release the dangers of their product? Can a company coverup and conceal health risks and danger to save stock prices and an industry?
Common Law Doctrine that my country follows in the Judicial System tells me that they are liable for misleading coverups and knowingly putting lives at risks.
Hell these companies agree by settling for this amount of money!!!! What company would pay theses penalties if there wasn't some admission of guilt????
We can take many angles. With the education and knowledge we have, the choice is our blame. The labels have warnings and we still are free to choose. If we do so, we own it. I concur.
However, the Tobacco industry is not guiltless. They are liable for misleading, blatant coverups and denial of facts! They agreed to change their marketing practices in exchange that no individual can sue them directly now. They write a check to the Government for protection. It is dirty!
So give me all the examples of wrong doings. That doesn't take away the UST responsibility or blame for killing and destroying lives!
Common Law shows that they knowingly mislead and marketed their product to children. Mcdonald's to my knowledge never denied getting market share by marketing their product to children.
That my friends is the lie. UST wants your children to buy and use their product even though it is illegal! Don't ever cut them slack by saying we had a choice!
They are con artists after children. They have no fault???? Really?
Well fuck me then. Let the companies knowingly let carcinogens seep into drinking water. No more recalls on car's that explode or tires that blow out. Let every drug come to market and screw the buried research. I chose to take a pill. If I make 30k and a bank gives me a loan for a 500k house. I am the responsible one for them telling me that I am qualified. (That is the closest argument to us being fully responsible for our choice, however if your loan officer knowingly qualifies you without informing you that you're fucked. They have some burden too! )
So yes we chose to dip. However, our choice was made from intentional misleading information. FUCK US TOBACCO! Never sympathize with them.
They have blood spattered hands. Until they fold, they always will. They share the burden and blame for taking loved ones too early. Who else is to blame? Those who aid and promote this product. Advertising agency that will accept their filthy lucre to send out propaganda adds. The government that accepts a payout to prevent individual lawsuits. The parents who use in front of kids. Coaches and professional athletes that think they aren't role models and its a fucking individual choice!!!!
If you knew that your drinking water was contaminated and your risk to have painful tumors was a possibility, would you drink it? If I told you that my drinking water was safe would you take me at my word?
So you can't make a horse drink but if you offer tainted water for them to drink aren't you holding some fault????
I blame US Tobacco for 3 million deaths per year. I will until they fold. The only good I ever linked to tobacco was for helping heal wounds on animals. Don't even know if that is true. So without any real benefits to man, tobacco is a noxious weed and kills. They should till it in the ground and fold up shop. Until then watch their expansion into Indonesia. They aren't educated about tobacco. They are in the dark like America was 30 years ago. With little laws on pimping their product, that is where they are increasing market share!!! They aren't held to the same advertising standards.
Watch an epidemic of cancer hit Indonesia. Once they begin learning the truth about tobacco and the false propaganda by UST, are you going to say those individuals had a choice and UST is just a business????
I don't care if it is American. The UST companies are a worldwide terrorist organization. They kill 3 million people a year and it is going to increase in Indonesia!
They knowingly kill! Money is more important than your life. They will and can replace you so they aren't concerned about losing a customer. If you quit or die, they recruit 5 more to take your place. Yes their market is still children. Boys between 6th and 9th grade is their market.
Sure look the other way and say, "I chose to chew." UST would applaud you for owning the liability and responsibility of the product they sell. Also, check your figures, I think that 20.1 is not the average age starting. I think that is the average age using tobacco. Many of us here are older than 30, to balance the average, how many users are under 20?
Honestly I don't think I can change your mind and I don't think I will. However for all those that are quitting tobacco that read this, they must know that your thoughts are not the full story of blame.
BTW: I am speaking up because I couldn't be silent and let anyone assume that I agreed that I am 100% to blame for chewing tobacco.
Why do we even have laws on the books called, contributing to the delinquency of minors. If there is no culpability and we all made a choice.
I am done ranting but want it known the UST should have blame for the deaths linked to their product.
Oooooooookkaaaaaaayyyy then. I did ask for the full version.
The short version response: We disagree. Frankly, the consequences of your line of thinking frighten me. Slavery to nicotine is not the worst form of slavery.
You mean fire burns down houses? I thought the stove was to blame.
-
Big Tobacco sets traps and plants landmines to get your addicted ass to cave. I see through their lies and deceit. I hate them and fight them. That's what keeps me quit and always on guard. They have the advantage because we are addicts. Doesn't mean they will win. Just know their game! If full 100% ownership keeps you quit. Great! For me 100% hatred of those killers keeps me quit.
I am just glad that I quit with you zam, Eric, rgross, coachsteve and KTC. We all say, "Fuck Tobacco". I am Quit!
Whom ever Intro this is, I apologize for hijacking, I will go back and poof my posts so that it isn't so lengthy.
-
Big Tobacco sets traps and plants landmines to get your addicted ass to cave. I see through their lies and deceit. I hate them and fight them. That's what keeps me quit and always on guard. They have the advantage because we are addicts. Doesn't mean they will win. Just know their game! If full 100% ownership keeps you quit. Great! For me 100% hatred of those killers keeps me quit.
I am just glad that I quit with you zam, Eric, rgross, coachsteve and KTC. We all say, "Fuck Tobacco". I am Quit!
Whom ever Intro this is, I apologize for hijacking, I will go back and poof my posts so that it isn't so lengthy.
Your post are fine with me. It's my thread. Discussion is why I post stuff here.
-
Big Tobacco sets traps and plants landmines to get your addicted ass to cave. I see through their lies and deceit. I hate them and fight them. That's what keeps me quit and always on guard. They have the advantage because we are addicts. Doesn't mean they will win. Just know their game! If full 100% ownership keeps you quit. Great! For me 100% hatred of those killers keeps me quit.Â
I am just glad that I quit with you zam, Eric, rgross, coachsteve and KTC. We all say, "Fuck Tobacco". I am Quit!
Whom ever Intro this is, I apologize for hijacking, I will go back and poof my posts so that it isn't so lengthy.
Your post are fine with me. It's my thread. Discussion is why I post stuff here.
Good discussion, I'll hijack for a second here Zam...
I align more with your thinking on this. While I have no love loss for UST, they are figuratively dead to me. They get no more of my money, time or energy. Tobacco is simply off the table as any option now, it is part of my past only. If I take full responsibility for chewing, I can take full responsiblity for staying quit.
One of the things that makes this site work well is the group accountability, the social interaction with other quitters. I think we all need those things when we begin our quits. Some will need them forever. But ultimately I think if you are only quitting because of KTC brothers/peer re-inforcement you will eventually cave because you haven't reached 100% accountability to yourself.
Man up and remove it as an option in your life. If necessary, change your lifestyle, your other habits/addictions, even your friends. Hold yourself accountable first and foremost. Be the master of yourself. At some point, personal accountability should replace or at least augment peer accountability.
-
Big Tobacco sets traps and plants landmines to get your addicted ass to cave. I see through their lies and deceit. I hate them and fight them. That's what keeps me quit and always on guard. They have the advantage because we are addicts. Doesn't mean they will win. Just know their game! If full 100% ownership keeps you quit. Great! For me 100% hatred of those killers keeps me quit.Â
I am just glad that I quit with you zam, Eric, rgross, coachsteve and KTC. We all say, "Fuck Tobacco". I am Quit!
Whom ever Intro this is, I apologize for hijacking, I will go back and poof my posts so that it isn't so lengthy.
Your post are fine with me. It's my thread. Discussion is why I post stuff here.
Good discussion, I'll hijack for a second here Zam...
I align more with your thinking on this. While I have no love loss for UST, they are figuratively dead to me. They get no more of my money, time or energy. Tobacco is simply off the table as any option now, it is part of my past only. If I take full responsibility for chewing, I can take full responsiblity for staying quit.
One of the things that makes this site work well is the group accountability, the social interaction with other quitters. I think we all need those things when we begin our quits. Some will need them forever. But ultimately I think if you are only quitting because of KTC brothers/peer re-inforcement you will eventually cave because you haven't reached 100% accountability to yourself.
Man up and remove it as an option in your life. If necessary, change your lifestyle, your other habits/addictions, even your friends. Hold yourself accountable first and foremost. Be the master of yourself. At some point, personal accountability should replace or at least augment peer accountability.
Again, my advocacy for full individual responsibility is NOT linked the moral/legal issues of marketing nicotine. Â Â Â
Tony, I obviously agree with what you are saying, to some extent. Â However, your point is certainly easily and often misunderstood by the newest of quitters. I think the fear of this "misunderstanding"shades the debate about responsibility.
Mark, when evaluating life decisions I try to take the world as it is, not how I wish it to be. Â Loan sharks will attempt to take advantage of my ignorance. Â The Bernie Madoffs will always be there to take advantage of my laziness and greed. Â Â Capital One tells me how much better life will be if I charge on their card. Â Harrah's slots will make me rich and good looking. Â Even if you don't have a pot to piss in, you simply MUST get the Dish-700 package, now only 29.99* Â for the first month! Â I'll get washboard abs while masturbating if I learn the secrets in new CDrom I can purchase for only 3 easy payments. Â I'm from the government, and I'm here to help. Â Â And finally, yes, "Copenhagen is relaxing and puts hair on you chest, only real men can handle it."Â Â
This stuff will never change. Â Â I applaud your efforts against big tobacco, but unfortunately, big tobacco is just one of thousands of evils that we face every day, and will continue to face every day. Â
Frankly, I would have it no other way.
-
I'll get washboard abs while masturbating if I learn the secrets in new CDrom I can purchase for only 3 easy payments.
Zam, making me laugh lessons my stubbornness. I have thought about this discussion for a couple days.
I am quit. It is my fault and I chose to quit. I am to blame. However, I blame kTC for educating me, I blame my family, friends and kTC brotherhood for support and demanding more from me than I thought was in me.
I am an addict. I am to blame and it is my fault. I chose to dip. I would like to also recognize and blame UST for leading me down a path of disgrace. I blame them for not giving a shit about me as a customer and must recognize them for creating an addict for a customer. They were like Draco to appolo creed....if he dies...he dies.
What I realized is that we are both semi right. To be fully right, we both have to acknowledge that all parties are to blame.
-
I'll get washboard abs while masturbating if I learn the secrets in new CDrom I can purchase for only 3 easy payments.
Zam, making me laugh lessons my stubbornness. I have thought about this discussion for a couple days.
I am quit. It is my fault and I chose to quit. I am to blame. However, I blame kTC for educating me, I blame my family, friends and kTC brotherhood for support and demanding more from me than I thought was in me.
I am an addict. I am to blame and it is my fault. I chose to dip. I would like to also recognize and blame UST for leading me down a path of disgrace. I blame them for not giving a shit about me as a customer and must recognize them for creating an addict for a customer. They were like Draco to appolo creed....if he dies...he dies.
What I realized is that we are both semi right. To be fully right, we both have to acknowledge that all parties are to blame.
Use whatever motivates you Mark, we all vary somewhat in that. UST certainly has done no one any favors save their shareholders and CEOs.
I will second what Zam says, many large corporations that make products you use every day do not care at all about an individual consumer. More of them than UST have poisoned citizens purposely. They all do it for the same reason, because it is profitable and they can get away with it.
I agree Sam, the concepts of individual vs peer accountability as well as today vs forever are difficult to talk about head on. We tend to think they are diametrically opposed, but they seem to coincide well for me. Forever is the purpose, today is the practice.
-
I'll get washboard abs while masturbating if I learn the secrets in new CDrom I can purchase for only 3 easy payments.
Zam, making me laugh lessons my stubbornness. I have thought about this discussion for a couple days.
I am quit. It is my fault and I chose to quit. I am to blame. However, I blame kTC for educating me, I blame my family, friends and kTC brotherhood for support and demanding more from me than I thought was in me.
I am an addict. I am to blame and it is my fault. I chose to dip. I would like to also recognize and blame UST for leading me down a path of disgrace. I blame them for not giving a shit about me as a customer and must recognize them for creating an addict for a customer. They were like Draco to appolo creed....if he dies...he dies.
What I realized is that we are both semi right. To be fully right, we both have to acknowledge that all parties are to blame.
Use whatever motivates you Mark, we all vary somewhat in that. UST certainly has done no one any favors save their shareholders and CEOs.
I will second what Zam says, many large corporations that make products you use every day do not care at all about an individual consumer. More of them than UST have poisoned citizens purposely. They all do it for the same reason, because it is profitable and they can get away with it.
I agree Sam, the concepts of individual vs peer accountability as well as today vs forever are difficult to talk about head on. We tend to think they are diametrically opposed, but they seem to coincide well for me. Forever is the purpose, today is the practice.
I
Blame
All
Of
You
For
Me
Being
qUIT lIKE fUCK
p.s. fUCK uST, fUCK cANCER, pOST rOLL, sTAY qUIT
-
I'll get washboard abs while masturbating if I learn the secrets in new CDrom I can purchase for only 3 easy payments.
Zam, making me laugh lessons my stubbornness. I have thought about this discussion for a couple days.
I am quit. It is my fault and I chose to quit. I am to blame. However, I blame kTC for educating me, I blame my family, friends and kTC brotherhood for support and demanding more from me than I thought was in me.
I am an addict. I am to blame and it is my fault. I chose to dip. I would like to also recognize and blame UST for leading me down a path of disgrace. I blame them for not giving a shit about me as a customer and must recognize them for creating an addict for a customer. They were like Draco to appolo creed....if he dies...he dies.
What I realized is that we are both semi right. To be fully right, we both have to acknowledge that all parties are to blame.
Use whatever motivates you Mark, we all vary somewhat in that. UST certainly has done no one any favors save their shareholders and CEOs.
I will second what Zam says, many large corporations that make products you use every day do not care at all about an individual consumer. More of them than UST have poisoned citizens purposely. They all do it for the same reason, because it is profitable and they can get away with it.
I agree Sam, the concepts of individual vs peer accountability as well as today vs forever are difficult to talk about head on. We tend to think they are diametrically opposed, but they seem to coincide well for me. Forever is the purpose, today is the practice.
I
Blame
All
Of
You
For
Me
Being
qUIT lIKE fUCK
p.s. fUCK uST, fUCK cANCER, pOST rOLL, sTAY qUIT
'clap'
-
So there's this story that everyone in my small town is talking about ...
A couple of days ago, this woman is working out at the fitness center. This is a small town, so there are no huge mega gyms that have crowds 24/7. When this woman arrives the place has a few others working out. An hour later, she is the only person left as she finishes her workout. As is the case with most fitness centers, the front desk is right by the exit, and is manned by an attendant. On the way out, the lady glances over and sees that the employee is jacking off behind the desk. True story (well, true as far as I know. edit- the story made the local paper)
What ACTUALLY happened immediately following is not really important to my point. A discussion on what MIGHT have happened is important to my point.
Here's a couple of my possible scenarios:
1. The woman freaks out, calls the cops.
2. The woman calls the owner and demands that the employee be fired immediately.
3. The patrons tell the attendant to jerk off whenever, wherever he wants, with the exception of the front desk.
4. The woman complains to the other patrons. The patrons of the fitness club get together and decide that the woman could just simply look the other way if she doesn't like it. The attendant jerking off is none of her business, doesn't effect her ability to work out, and she is probably just looking for an excuse to stay home and eat ho-hos anyway.
-
“God whispers to us in our pleasures, speaks in our conscience, but shouts in our pain; it is His megaphone to rouse a deaf world.” C.S. Lewis
-
Something WarE2013 mentioned in his intro got me thinking about bridges....
Burning bridges. That's the difference between a little pause in nicotine usage and quitting. Pausers see a bridge standing, and feel comfortable. They get a warm fuzzy knowing that if this quitting thing gets really tough, there is an escape back to a life they knew. The pauser values the comfort of a life they know (even if it's a messed up addict life) over the unknown life free of a nicotine.
A quitter sees a bridge and gets scared. Concerned. Angry. A quitter realizes the "comfort" offerred on the other side of that bridge is a lie. Even so, that quitter knows he'll see that bridge every time he's weak. To a quitter, that bridge is a threat. A quitter will burn that damn bridge. No mercy.
-
Count Wedgie in as quitting with the trademark.
-
Mini Rant
I absolutely lose my damn mind when a caver or a caver apologetic gets/gives kudos for "manning up and admitting it" or "having the balls to come back and face the music." Don't get me wrong, there are some people whose pride is all they have, and would never fess up or return. But that's pride fucking with you. That's the kind of pride that probably fucks up other aspects of their life. The kind of pride that convinces you to punch the MMA champ in the mouth, "cause you're not a pussy!" That's not "balls". "Balls" are what it takes to make the decision that you are DONE! NO more, even when every cell of your body is screaming WTF!, just one already. The caver comes back for one reason, and one reason only: They understand that consequences of not coming back are probably worse than the consequences of coming back. There are no "balls" required. Is it "ballsy" to have a doctor reset a broken leg? NO, at most, you can get kudos on how you handled the procedure. Same with returning cavers. You can get kudos for humbling yourself and airing out your issues and lessons, but to get kudos JUST FOR returning? No frigg'n way.
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Mini Rant
I absolutely lose my damn mind when a caver or a caver apologetic gets/gives kudos for "manning up and admitting it" or "having the balls to come back and face the music." Don't get me wrong, there are some people whose pride is all they have, and would never fess up or return. But that's pride fucking with you. That's the kind of pride that probably fucks up other aspects of their life. The kind of pride that convinces you to punch the MMA champ in the mouth, "cause you're not a pussy!" That's not "balls". "Balls" are what it takes to make the decision that you are DONE! NO more, even when every cell of your body is screaming WTF!, just one already. The caver comes back for one reason, and one reason only: They understand that consequences of not coming back are probably worse than the consequences of coming back. There are no "balls" required. Is it "ballsy" to have a doctor reset a broken leg? NO, at most, you can get kudos on how you handled the procedure. Same with returning cavers. You can get kudos for humbling yourself and airing out your issues and lessons, but to get kudos JUST FOR returning? No frigg'n way.
Standing -O bro
I'll steal Coach Steve's soap box anytime you want!!!
'clap'
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Mini Rant
I absolutely lose my damn mind when a caver or a caver apologetic gets/gives kudos for "manning up and admitting it" or "having the balls to come back and face the music." Don't get me wrong, there are some people whose pride is all they have, and would never fess up or return. But that's pride fucking with you. That's the kind of pride that probably fucks up other aspects of their life. The kind of pride that convinces you to punch the MMA champ in the mouth, "cause you're not a pussy!" That's not "balls". "Balls" are what it takes to make the decision that you are DONE! NO more, even when every cell of your body is screaming WTF!, just one already. The caver comes back for one reason, and one reason only: They understand that consequences of not coming back are probably worse than the consequences of coming back. There are no "balls" required. Is it "ballsy" to have a doctor reset a broken leg? NO, at most, you can get kudos on how you handled the procedure. Same with returning cavers. You can get kudos for humbling yourself and airing out your issues and lessons, but to get kudos JUST FOR returning? No frigg'n way.
Standing -O bro
I'll steal Coach Steve's soap box anytime you want!!!
'clap'
I so appreciate that mentality. To much patting oneself on the back for being weak and taking the path of least resistance to Old Fucking Nictown. Bravery and Accountability to yourself and your word is telling the Nic Bitch to go FUCK herself in that moment of weakness. Coming back to the site by either crawling or walking tall doesn't justify or lessen the FAILURE. Sorry Zam didn't mean to sabotage, just a very sensitive subject I suppose.
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Bumpage for a day of recognition
Nice work hitting the 5th Floor Z!!!!
Keep it rolling
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Mini Rant
I absolutely lose my damn mind when a caver or a caver apologetic gets/gives kudos for "manning up and admitting it" or "having the balls to come back and face the music." Don't get me wrong, there are some people whose pride is all they have, and would never fess up or return. But that's pride fucking with you. That's the kind of pride that probably fucks up other aspects of their life. The kind of pride that convinces you to punch the MMA champ in the mouth, "cause you're not a pussy!" That's not "balls". "Balls" are what it takes to make the decision that you are DONE! NO more, even when every cell of your body is screaming WTF!, just one already. The caver comes back for one reason, and one reason only: They understand that consequences of not coming back are probably worse than the consequences of coming back. There are no "balls" required. Is it "ballsy" to have a doctor reset a broken leg? NO, at most, you can get kudos on how you handled the procedure. Same with returning cavers. You can get kudos for humbling yourself and airing out your issues and lessons, but to get kudos JUST FOR returning? No frigg'n way.
Standing -O bro
I'll steal Coach Steve's soap box anytime you want!!!
'clap'
I so appreciate that mentality. To much patting oneself on the back for being weak and taking the path of least resistance to Old Fucking Nictown. Bravery and Accountability to yourself and your word is telling the Nic Bitch to go FUCK herself in that moment of weakness. Coming back to the site by either crawling or walking tall doesn't justify or lessen the FAILURE. Sorry Zam didn't mean to sabotage, just a very sensitive subject I suppose.
This is a powerful trifecta of goodnessosity.
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Wow, first day of the new group and the "you guys are just internet bullies" card has been played. Didn't see that one coming Sarcasm
In my short time here, I have been amazed at how many times the following pattern emerges:
1. user fails miserably multiple times trying to quit alone.
2. user find KTC and presumably sees all sorts of actual, no-shit, real word posts (no firewalls here!) that should clearly show that KTC believes in ALL types of support, not just the ass-patting.
3. The user really likes what he/she reads and decides to join the group.
4. The first time the new "quitter" is asked to explain themselves, the quit-failure whines about internet bullies, not having to explain themselves, and then says something along the lines of "fuck you, blah blah blah."
I mean....who f%ing joins a group like this without looking into the shit the site proclaims to be about? Without reading about what they stand for? Without trying to get a sense for what they do and how they do it? I did. I read for HOURS before joining. HOURS. Did these guys not read anything before joining? Or did they think the brutal honestly, no-shit accountability was for everyone else?
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Wow, first day of the new group and the "you guys are just internet bullies" card has been played. Didn't see that one coming Sarcasm
In my short time here, I have been amazed at how many times the following pattern emerges:
1. user fails miserably multiple times trying to quit alone.
2. user find KTC and presumably sees all sorts of actual, no-shit, real word posts (no firewalls here!) that should clearly show that KTC believes in ALL types of support, not just the ass-patting.
3. The user really likes what he/she reads and decides to join the group.
4. The first time the new "quitter" is asked to explain themselves, the quit-failure whines about internet bullies, not having to explain themselves, and then says something along the lines of "fuck you, blah blah blah."
I mean....who f%ing joins a group like this without looking into the shit the site proclaims to be about? Without reading about what they stand for? Without trying to get a sense for what they do and how they do it? I did. I read for HOURS before joining. HOURS. Did these guys not read anything before joining? Or did they think the brutal honestly, no-shit accountability was for everyone else?
AMEN!!!! I couldnt have put it better myself...wtf this is not an ass patting site this site is for people who have failed at every other attempt they have ever made. Its not FB or quit or all the other ones you get a ribbon for TRYING its for hard cases. I tried million other ways but this one fits for me. Its the hard hitting brutal honesty about quit that keeps me focused. I just want to say thanks
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Wow, first day of the new group and the "you guys are just internet bullies" card has been played. Didn't see that one coming Sarcasm
In my short time here, I have been amazed at how many times the following pattern emerges:
1. user fails miserably multiple times trying to quit alone.
2. user find KTC and presumably sees all sorts of actual, no-shit, real word posts (no firewalls here!) that should clearly show that KTC believes in ALL types of support, not just the ass-patting.
3. The user really likes what he/she reads and decides to join the group.
4. The first time the new "quitter" is asked to explain themselves, the quit-failure whines about internet bullies, not having to explain themselves, and then says something along the lines of "fuck you, blah blah blah."
I mean....who f%ing joins a group like this without looking into the shit the site proclaims to be about? Without reading about what they stand for? Without trying to get a sense for what they do and how they do it? I did. I read for HOURS before joining. HOURS. Did these guys not read anything before joining? Or did they think the brutal honestly, no-shit accountability was for everyone else?
Perfectly, Said Z
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Wow, first day of the new group and the "you guys are just internet bullies" card has been played. Didn't see that one coming Sarcasm
In my short time here, I have been amazed at how many times the following pattern emerges:
1. user fails miserably multiple times trying to quit alone.
2. user find KTC and presumably sees all sorts of actual, no-shit, real word posts (no firewalls here!) that should clearly show that KTC believes in ALL types of support, not just the ass-patting.
3. The user really likes what he/she reads and decides to join the group.
4. The first time the new "quitter" is asked to explain themselves, the quit-failure whines about internet bullies, not having to explain themselves, and then says something along the lines of "fuck you, blah blah blah."
I mean....who f%ing joins a group like this without looking into the shit the site proclaims to be about? Without reading about what they stand for? Without trying to get a sense for what they do and how they do it? I did. I read for HOURS before joining. HOURS. Did these guys not read anything before joining? Or did they think the brutal honestly, no-shit accountability was for everyone else?
Seems they didn't read much before joining and looking at there posts for how long they were here, they didn't do much reading while members either! So surprised they failed! Sarcasm
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This is so true. I read about a cave that happened over day 300 and the fallout of that before I posted roll here. Maybe we should put a link to a cave story and what one can expect if they follow that path in the Welcome Center.
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This is so true. I read about a cave that happened over day 300 and the fallout of that before I posted roll here. Maybe we should put a link to a cave story and what one can expect if they follow that path in the Welcome Center.
Failure's not an option. Don't want to make it one.
We all make mistakes, but it is our responsibility to learn from them. There is no template to redemption, only a general path. The questions asked (what happened? why did it happen? what are you doing differently this time?) are asked to lead the returning member to the path. It is up to him to walk the path like every other quitter here.
We all take this one day at a time. Once a person returns, he is no different than any other day 1 except he knows how the program generally works. He needs to understand the program, not know it.
And we can't make that happen.
It is up to the returning member only.
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Wow, first day of the new group and the "you guys are just internet bullies" card has been played. Didn't see that one coming Sarcasm
In my short time here, I have been amazed at how many times the following pattern emerges:
1. user fails miserably multiple times trying to quit alone.
2. user find KTC and presumably sees all sorts of actual, no-shit, real word posts (no firewalls here!) that should clearly show that KTC believes in ALL types of support, not just the ass-patting.Â
3. The user really likes what he/she reads and decides to join the group.
4. The first time the new "quitter" is asked to explain themselves, the quit-failure whines about internet bullies, not having to explain themselves, and then says something along the lines of "fuck you, blah blah blah."
I mean....who f%ing joins a group like this without looking into the shit the site proclaims to be about? Without reading about what they stand for? Without trying to get a sense for what they do and how they do it? I did. I read for HOURS before joining. HOURS. Did these guys not read anything before joining? Or did they think the brutal honestly, no-shit accountability was for everyone else?
AMEN!!!! I couldnt have put it better myself...wtf this is not an ass patting site this site is for people who have failed at every other attempt they have ever made. Its not FB or quit or all the other ones you get a ribbon for TRYING its for hard cases. I tried million other ways but this one fits for me. Its the hard hitting brutal honesty about quit that keeps me focused. I just want to say thanks
You may be asking rhetorical questions, but I'm going to put in my 2 cents nonetheless and engage this discussion because it's worth having.
I think the instances to which you are referring are a combination of several factors. One factor is most certainly that these quitters dive in without doing their research, perhaps looking for a "quick fix." I admit that I didn't read for hours prior to joining, but I read enough to know that KTC had me at accountability. Of course, I read for many hours after I joined...which is also something that a lot of quitters fail to do. Failing to educate oneself is a trait of a lazy quitter...and a lazy human for that matter.
Another factor is undoubtedly the selfishness of the nicotine addict. We all wanted a quick fix for quitting, something painless and stress free. And of course we expected nothing but unequivocal kindness and positivism from everyone we encountered along the way, right? Wrong. We need hard core reality and we need it every damn day. That's why I put my name on roll every day and I know that's why Zam does the same. In order to accept the quit methods of KTC, you must forget about quitting "your way." KTC isn't just a tool to quit, it's the manufacturer, supplier, dealer and mechanic. Buy into that and we can quit together. If not...well, good "luck."
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Wow, first day of the new group and the "you guys are just internet bullies" card has been played. Didn't see that one coming Sarcasm
In my short time here, I have been amazed at how many times the following pattern emerges:
1. user fails miserably multiple times trying to quit alone.
2. user find KTC and presumably sees all sorts of actual, no-shit, real word posts (no firewalls here!) that should clearly show that KTC believes in ALL types of support, not just the ass-patting.Â
3. The user really likes what he/she reads and decides to join the group.
4. The first time the new "quitter" is asked to explain themselves, the quit-failure whines about internet bullies, not having to explain themselves, and then says something along the lines of "fuck you, blah blah blah."
I mean....who f%ing joins a group like this without looking into the shit the site proclaims to be about? Without reading about what they stand for? Without trying to get a sense for what they do and how they do it? I did. I read for HOURS before joining. HOURS. Did these guys not read anything before joining? Or did they think the brutal honestly, no-shit accountability was for everyone else?
AMEN!!!! I couldnt have put it better myself...wtf this is not an ass patting site this site is for people who have failed at every other attempt they have ever made. Its not FB or quit or all the other ones you get a ribbon for TRYING its for hard cases. I tried million other ways but this one fits for me. Its the hard hitting brutal honesty about quit that keeps me focused. I just want to say thanks
You may be asking rhetorical questions, but I'm going to put in my 2 cents nonetheless and engage this discussion because it's worth having.
I think the instances to which you are referring are a combination of several factors. One factor is most certainly that these quitters dive in without doing their research, perhaps looking for a "quick fix." I admit that I didn't read for hours prior to joining, but I read enough to know that KTC had me at accountability. Of course, I read for many hours after I joined...which is also something that a lot of quitters fail to do. Failing to educate oneself is a trait of a lazy quitter...and a lazy human for that matter.
Another factor is undoubtedly the selfishness of the nicotine addict. We all wanted a quick fix for quitting, something painless and stress free. And of course we expected nothing but unequivocal kindness and positivism from everyone we encountered along the way, right? Wrong. We need hard core reality and we need it every damn day. That's why I put my name on roll every day and I know that's why Zam does the same. In order to accept the quit methods of KTC, you must forget about quitting "your way." KTC isn't just a tool to quit, it's the manufacturer, supplier, dealer and mechanic. Buy into that and we can quit together. If not...well, good "luck."
worth a half a cent but here goes -
I quit 3 days prior to joining this site - Accountability - Brotherhood - Success was all it took for me to start chugging the Kool-Aid like a fish at a frat party
take what you can - leave the rest -
It ain't personal, it's about the QUIT!!!
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Wow, first day of the new group and the "you guys are just internet bullies" card has been played. Didn't see that one coming Sarcasm
In my short time here, I have been amazed at how many times the following pattern emerges:
1. user fails miserably multiple times trying to quit alone.
2. user find KTC and presumably sees all sorts of actual, no-shit, real word posts (no firewalls here!) that should clearly show that KTC believes in ALL types of support, not just the ass-patting.Â
3. The user really likes what he/she reads and decides to join the group.
4. The first time the new "quitter" is asked to explain themselves, the quit-failure whines about internet bullies, not having to explain themselves, and then says something along the lines of "fuck you, blah blah blah."
I mean....who f%ing joins a group like this without looking into the shit the site proclaims to be about? Without reading about what they stand for? Without trying to get a sense for what they do and how they do it? I did. I read for HOURS before joining. HOURS. Did these guys not read anything before joining? Or did they think the brutal honestly, no-shit accountability was for everyone else?
AMEN!!!! I couldnt have put it better myself...wtf this is not an ass patting site this site is for people who have failed at every other attempt they have ever made. Its not FB or quit or all the other ones you get a ribbon for TRYING its for hard cases. I tried million other ways but this one fits for me. Its the hard hitting brutal honesty about quit that keeps me focused. I just want to say thanks
You may be asking rhetorical questions, but I'm going to put in my 2 cents nonetheless and engage this discussion because it's worth having.
I think the instances to which you are referring are a combination of several factors. One factor is most certainly that these quitters dive in without doing their research, perhaps looking for a "quick fix." I admit that I didn't read for hours prior to joining, but I read enough to know that KTC had me at accountability. Of course, I read for many hours after I joined...which is also something that a lot of quitters fail to do. Failing to educate oneself is a trait of a lazy quitter...and a lazy human for that matter.
Another factor is undoubtedly the selfishness of the nicotine addict. We all wanted a quick fix for quitting, something painless and stress free. And of course we expected nothing but unequivocal kindness and positivism from everyone we encountered along the way, right? Wrong. We need hard core reality and we need it every damn day. That's why I put my name on roll every day and I know that's why Zam does the same. In order to accept the quit methods of KTC, you must forget about quitting "your way." KTC isn't just a tool to quit, it's the manufacturer, supplier, dealer and mechanic. Buy into that and we can quit together. If not...well, good "luck."
worth a half a cent but here goes -
I quit 3 days prior to joining this site - Accountability - Brotherhood - Success was all it took for me to start chugging the Kool-Aid like a fish at a frat party
take what you can - leave the rest -
It ain't personal, it's about the QUIT!!!
Good comments, all. I hear what you're smelling CS - there are many that came here for the quick fix. In a way, I did too. I knew I wasn't gonna last the day when I first logged on to KTC, and KTC promised to keep me quit TODAY. Promising to stay quit today was a quick, albeit short-term fix. I guess so far I have participated in 520 consecutive "quick fixes". And that's probably not a bad way to look at it. So....good point.
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Wow, first day of the new group and the "you guys are just internet bullies" card has been played. Didn't see that one coming Sarcasm
In my short time here, I have been amazed at how many times the following pattern emerges:
1. user fails miserably multiple times trying to quit alone.
2. user find KTC and presumably sees all sorts of actual, no-shit, real word posts (no firewalls here!) that should clearly show that KTC believes in ALL types of support, not just the ass-patting.Â
3. The user really likes what he/she reads and decides to join the group.
4. The first time the new "quitter" is asked to explain themselves, the quit-failure whines about internet bullies, not having to explain themselves, and then says something along the lines of "fuck you, blah blah blah."
I mean....who f%ing joins a group like this without looking into the shit the site proclaims to be about? Without reading about what they stand for? Without trying to get a sense for what they do and how they do it? I did. I read for HOURS before joining. HOURS. Did these guys not read anything before joining? Or did they think the brutal honestly, no-shit accountability was for everyone else?
AMEN!!!! I couldnt have put it better myself...wtf this is not an ass patting site this site is for people who have failed at every other attempt they have ever made. Its not FB or quit or all the other ones you get a ribbon for TRYING its for hard cases. I tried million other ways but this one fits for me. Its the hard hitting brutal honesty about quit that keeps me focused. I just want to say thanks
You may be asking rhetorical questions, but I'm going to put in my 2 cents nonetheless and engage this discussion because it's worth having.
I think the instances to which you are referring are a combination of several factors. One factor is most certainly that these quitters dive in without doing their research, perhaps looking for a "quick fix." I admit that I didn't read for hours prior to joining, but I read enough to know that KTC had me at accountability. Of course, I read for many hours after I joined...which is also something that a lot of quitters fail to do. Failing to educate oneself is a trait of a lazy quitter...and a lazy human for that matter.
Another factor is undoubtedly the selfishness of the nicotine addict. We all wanted a quick fix for quitting, something painless and stress free. And of course we expected nothing but unequivocal kindness and positivism from everyone we encountered along the way, right? Wrong. We need hard core reality and we need it every damn day. That's why I put my name on roll every day and I know that's why Zam does the same. In order to accept the quit methods of KTC, you must forget about quitting "your way." KTC isn't just a tool to quit, it's the manufacturer, supplier, dealer and mechanic. Buy into that and we can quit together. If not...well, good "luck."
worth a half a cent but here goes -
I quit 3 days prior to joining this site - Accountability - Brotherhood - Success was all it took for me to start chugging the Kool-Aid like a fish at a frat party
take what you can - leave the rest -
It ain't personal, it's about the QUIT!!!
Good comments, all. I hear what you're smelling CS - there are many that came here for the quick fix. In a way, I did too. I knew I wasn't gonna last the day when I first logged on to KTC, and KTC promised to keep me quit TODAY. Promising to stay quit today was a quick, albeit short-term fix. I guess so far I have participated in 520 consecutive "quick fixes". And that's probably not a bad way to look at it. So....good point.
Since Zam hasn't posted a new topic I'll jump on this older one as I missed it originally and think it is a great point of discussion and something that pisses me off here...
Bottom line, there is no excuse for people who show up here expecting the site to keep them quit without investing much effort in it themselves.
The tools are here. The recipe is here. All it takes is a dedicated quitter who is willing to read, learn and act to build their quit. You don't have to be a superhero, but you do have to be honest with yourself to be a quitter.
I'm always amazed at those that show up and think they have a better way without even attempting to understand the KTC way 'bang head'
But we see it almost every month...
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There is a dude by the name "shark" that started posting in the intro around the 3rd of August or so. He had the common "plan" of how he was gonna quit on "this other day sometime in the near future." Long story short - he is called out, he seems to get it, posts a few days, now he's gone. But that's not the interesting part.
The interesting part is who he was getting pressed to either post roll or stop posting -in the INTRODUCTION section. Maybe I missed something in the bylaws, but isn't the INTRO section an open forum where nic use status is not considered? We strongly enforce nic-free in the quit forums, and I've done my part to ensure it stays nic-free. More than once I've asked some dude in the quit forum to post roll or --wait for it--- head to some other area of the site. But do we really want to run off some user in the INTRO section because they haven't bought in to KTC or roll? I understand if I/we decided to ignore them until they get serious...but to ask to go away?
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But do we really want to run off some user in the INTRO section because they haven't bought in to KTC or roll? I understand if I/we decided to ignore them until they get serious...but to ask to go away?
Well said. I don't think the majority of newbies understand KTC.
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There is a dude by the name "shark" that started posting in the intro around the 3rd of August or so. He had the common "plan" of how he was gonna quit on "this other day sometime in the near future." Long story short - he is called out, he seems to get it, posts a few days, now he's gone. But that's not the interesting part.
The interesting part is who he was getting pressed to either post roll or stop posting -in the INTRODUCTION section. Maybe I missed something in the bylaws, but isn't the INTRO section an open forum where nic use status is not considered? We strongly enforce nic-free in the quit forums, and I've done my part to ensure it stays nic-free. More than once I've asked some dude in the quit forum to post roll or --wait for it--- head to some other area of the site. But do we really want to run off some user in the INTRO section because they haven't bought in to KTC or roll? I understand if I/we decided to ignore them until they get serious...but to ask to go away?
I am not sure this is the right area to entertain this but I was told that is the cost of admission to be able to type in the intro was to be nic free and have posted roll. Then after roll has been posted have at it run all over the site. I have heard that chat and the other forums were for those who didn't post roll.
I am not sure IMO I think that the roll post section and the intro threads should be reserved for those who are posting roll and making the promise EDD. Its really our basic fundamental of the site post roll repeat. If you cant do that the quit isn't on the forefront. I guess I am not understanding what is happening with shark? He posts roll now and then but goes to intro a lot? 10 seconds more and he can post roll?
I try not to post in anyones intro until I have posted roll or I am still within my 24hours. I just thought that was how it worked would like to see what the rule is on this.
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There is a dude by the name "shark" that started posting in the intro around the 3rd of August or so. He had the common "plan" of how he was gonna quit on "this other day sometime in the near future." Long story short - he is called out, he seems to get it, posts a few days, now he's gone. But that's not the interesting part.
The interesting part is who he was getting pressed to either post roll or stop posting -in the INTRODUCTION section. Maybe I missed something in the bylaws, but isn't the INTRO section an open forum where nic use status is not considered? We strongly enforce nic-free in the quit forums, and I've done my part to ensure it stays nic-free. More than once I've asked some dude in the quit forum to post roll or --wait for it--- head to some other area of the site. But do we really want to run off some user in the INTRO section because they haven't bought in to KTC or roll? I understand if I/we decided to ignore them until they get serious...but to ask to go away?
I am not sure this is the right area to entertain this but I was told that is the cost of admission to be able to type in the intro was to be nic free and have posted roll. Then after roll has been posted have at it run all over the site. I have heard that chat and the other forums were for those who didn't post roll.
I am not sure IMO I think that the roll post section and the intro threads should be reserved for those who are posting roll and making the promise EDD. Its really our basic fundamental of the site post roll repeat. If you cant do that the quit isn't on the forefront. I guess I am not understanding what is happening with shark? He posts roll now and then but goes to intro a lot? 10 seconds more and he can post roll?
I try not to post in anyones intro until I have posted roll or I am still within my 24hours. I just thought that was how it worked would like to see what the rule is on this.
my understanding is intros can be done by anyone, but you must be nic-free to post roll in quit groups. However I've never seen this written down anywhere. Seems to me we should encouraging those that are considering quitting not driving them away from the site...
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There is a dude by the name "shark" that started posting in the intro around the 3rd of August or so. He had the common "plan" of how he was gonna quit on "this other day sometime in the near future." Long story short - he is called out, he seems to get it, posts a few days, now he's gone. But that's not the interesting part.
The interesting part is who he was getting pressed to either post roll or stop posting -in the INTRODUCTION section. Maybe I missed something in the bylaws, but isn't the INTRO section an open forum where nic use status is not considered? We strongly enforce nic-free in the quit forums, and I've done my part to ensure it stays nic-free.  More than once I've asked some dude in the quit forum to post roll or --wait for it--- head to some other area of the site. But do we really want to run off some user in the INTRO section because they haven't bought in to KTC or roll? I understand if I/we decided to ignore them until they get serious...but to ask to go away?
I am not sure this is the right area to entertain this but I was told that is the cost of admission to be able to type in the intro was to be nic free and have posted roll. Then after roll has been posted have at it run all over the site. I have heard that chat and the other forums were for those who didn't post roll.
I am not sure IMO I think that the roll post section and the intro threads should be reserved for those who are posting roll and making the promise EDD. Its really our basic fundamental of the site post roll repeat. If you cant do that the quit isn't on the forefront. I guess I am not understanding what is happening with shark? He posts roll now and then but goes to intro a lot? 10 seconds more and he can post roll?
I try not to post in anyones intro until I have posted roll or I am still within my 24hours. I just thought that was how it worked would like to see what the rule is on this.
my understanding is intros can be done by anyone, but you must be nic-free to post roll in quit groups. However I've never seen this written down anywhere. Seems to me we should encouraging those that are considering quitting not driving them away from the site...
There are no written rules. The point is to drive users towards quitting and posting in the quit groups. Sometimes that happens, sometimes we never see that person again, and sometimes you get the trolls that blatantly refuse to post roll and talk shit to others for following the "status quo."
My 2 cents? If you're not posting roll and you are using, but you continue to post in your Intro day after day...eventually you need to be told to get with the program or fuck off.
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There is a dude by the name "shark" that started posting in the intro around the 3rd of August or so. He had the common "plan" of how he was gonna quit on "this other day sometime in the near future." Long story short - he is called out, he seems to get it, posts a few days, now he's gone. But that's not the interesting part.
The interesting part is who he was getting pressed to either post roll or stop posting -in the INTRODUCTION section. Maybe I missed something in the bylaws, but isn't the INTRO section an open forum where nic use status is not considered? We strongly enforce nic-free in the quit forums, and I've done my part to ensure it stays nic-free. More than once I've asked some dude in the quit forum to post roll or --wait for it--- head to some other area of the site. But do we really want to run off some user in the INTRO section because they haven't bought in to KTC or roll? I understand if I/we decided to ignore them until they get serious...but to ask to go away?
How about this...Shark fucking just mans up and quits? The very first line of his intro is something like, "I came across this site a few years ago, but didn't think much of it..." Gee Shark, WELCOME.
If you REALLY want something NOBODY can "run you off". If the guy is not quit then what's the point of being here? He's a bad influence on the rest of us. It only takes on spec of poop to ruin an entire gallon of ice cream.
If he is struggling and such then reach out and we will help, but if your just here to fuck around and waste everyones time then you will be called out.
He didn't seem to mind it as this is his quote in his final post:
"Thanks guys. Thanks too to everyone who called me out. I needed that. It's been a rough first day, but KTC is a good reminder that quit can be done."
Tired of people who fade away somehow blaming others for "Pushing them away".
You want to quit. Quit.
You want to fuck around and hym and haw. Then no offense, perhaps this isn't the place for you.
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There is a dude by the name "shark" that started posting in the intro around the 3rd of August or so. He had the common "plan" of how he was gonna quit on "this other day sometime in the near future." Long story short - he is called out, he seems to get it, posts a few days, now he's gone. But that's not the interesting part.
The interesting part is who he was getting pressed to either post roll or stop posting -in the INTRODUCTION section. Maybe I missed something in the bylaws, but isn't the INTRO section an open forum where nic use status is not considered? We strongly enforce nic-free in the quit forums, and I've done my part to ensure it stays nic-free.  More than once I've asked some dude in the quit forum to post roll or --wait for it--- head to some other area of the site. But do we really want to run off some user in the INTRO section because they haven't bought in to KTC or roll? I understand if I/we decided to ignore them until they get serious...but to ask to go away?
I am not sure this is the right area to entertain this but I was told that is the cost of admission to be able to type in the intro was to be nic free and have posted roll. Then after roll has been posted have at it run all over the site. I have heard that chat and the other forums were for those who didn't post roll.
I am not sure IMO I think that the roll post section and the intro threads should be reserved for those who are posting roll and making the promise EDD. Its really our basic fundamental of the site post roll repeat. If you cant do that the quit isn't on the forefront. I guess I am not understanding what is happening with shark? He posts roll now and then but goes to intro a lot? 10 seconds more and he can post roll?
I try not to post in anyones intro until I have posted roll or I am still within my 24hours. I just thought that was how it worked would like to see what the rule is on this.
my understanding is intros can be done by anyone, but you must be nic-free to post roll in quit groups. However I've never seen this written down anywhere. Seems to me we should encouraging those that are considering quitting not driving them away from the site...
There are no written rules. The point is to drive users towards quitting and posting in the quit groups. Sometimes that happens, sometimes we never see that person again, and sometimes you get the trolls that blatantly refuse to post roll and talk shit to others for following the "status quo."
My 2 cents? If you're not posting roll and you are using, but you continue to post in your Intro day after day...eventually you need to be told to get with the program or fuck off.
There is a price of admission to play on our playground.
It is roll.
Now, for the most part, the intros are the only part of the site that we have traditionally allowed people to post stuff while using. This was to help out those thinking about quitting without an immediate exit. However, this system can be abused. Once you post a day 1 on the forum section, we ask that you keep posting roll as long as you're quit. If you post a day 1-3, and come back just to play in your intro from that point on...that person is trolling and is not serious about quitting. Remember, the intros are the public section of our site that guests can read. Do you want somebody out here spewing failure?
I guess the best answer is to look at this example specifically.
Shark posted first to his intro on July 31. After 4 days of preparing himself to quit, he posted that he:
Been through 2 cans of Smokey Mountain already this morning.
on August 3.
After he did that, you see a flurry of posts telling him to post roll. Why? Somewhat for the rules of the site, but primarily because it is an important part of our program. I wouldn't be here today had I not made the habit of posting roll daily. I guarantee there would be many more that would be in the same boat. It's what we do and how we quit. No grey areas.
He then posted for the next 4 days, and has been missing the last 3.
Honestly, if he comes back today and doesn't post roll but plays in the intros, I'm going to question his quit. He hasn't, and hasn't posted in his intro since the third (day 1).
This case doesn't seem any more special than the 800,000 times I've already seen it. Why did shark catch your attention Zam?
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There is a dude by the name "shark" that started posting in the intro around the 3rd of August or so. He had the common "plan" of how he was gonna quit on "this other day sometime in the near future." Long story short - he is called out, he seems to get it, posts a few days, now he's gone. But that's not the interesting part.
The interesting part is who he was getting pressed to either post roll or stop posting -in the INTRODUCTION section. Maybe I missed something in the bylaws, but isn't the INTRO section an open forum where nic use status is not considered? We strongly enforce nic-free in the quit forums, and I've done my part to ensure it stays nic-free.  More than once I've asked some dude in the quit forum to post roll or --wait for it--- head to some other area of the site. But do we really want to run off some user in the INTRO section because they haven't bought in to KTC or roll? I understand if I/we decided to ignore them until they get serious...but to ask to go away?
I am not sure this is the right area to entertain this but I was told that is the cost of admission to be able to type in the intro was to be nic free and have posted roll. Then after roll has been posted have at it run all over the site. I have heard that chat and the other forums were for those who didn't post roll.
I am not sure IMO I think that the roll post section and the intro threads should be reserved for those who are posting roll and making the promise EDD. Its really our basic fundamental of the site post roll repeat. If you cant do that the quit isn't on the forefront. I guess I am not understanding what is happening with shark? He posts roll now and then but goes to intro a lot? 10 seconds more and he can post roll?
I try not to post in anyones intro until I have posted roll or I am still within my 24hours. I just thought that was how it worked would like to see what the rule is on this.
my understanding is intros can be done by anyone, but you must be nic-free to post roll in quit groups. However I've never seen this written down anywhere. Seems to me we should encouraging those that are considering quitting not driving them away from the site...
There are no written rules. The point is to drive users towards quitting and posting in the quit groups. Sometimes that happens, sometimes we never see that person again, and sometimes you get the trolls that blatantly refuse to post roll and talk shit to others for following the "status quo."
My 2 cents? If you're not posting roll and you are using, but you continue to post in your Intro day after day...eventually you need to be told to get with the program or fuck off.
To be fair, those who are not quit yet are invited to post in the Intro section.
"That doesnÂ’t mean you have to leave. Please feel free to post in the Cafe`. Ask questions, start making contacts. Learn. Post in the Introductions area. Many quitters will respond to you in both of these areas. We have a chat room. You can also go into there for some live chat. When you are ready, and want to post day 1, find your quit group and post up. It will be a day you never forget.". Here is the page: Welcome Page (http://forum.killthecan.org/index.php?showtopic=1360)
I'm just saying that it takes some longer than others to get it (me) and that we should hammer 'em with the principles of KTC and not be to quick to push the GTFO button.
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There is a dude by the name "shark" that started posting in the intro around the 3rd of August or so. He had the common "plan" of how he was gonna quit on "this other day sometime in the near future." Long story short - he is called out, he seems to get it, posts a few days, now he's gone. But that's not the interesting part.
The interesting part is who he was getting pressed to either post roll or stop posting -in the INTRODUCTION section. Maybe I missed something in the bylaws, but isn't the INTRO section an open forum where nic use status is not considered? We strongly enforce nic-free in the quit forums, and I've done my part to ensure it stays nic-free.  More than once I've asked some dude in the quit forum to post roll or --wait for it--- head to some other area of the site. But do we really want to run off some user in the INTRO section because they haven't bought in to KTC or roll? I understand if I/we decided to ignore them until they get serious...but to ask to go away?
I am not sure this is the right area to entertain this but I was told that is the cost of admission to be able to type in the intro was to be nic free and have posted roll. Then after roll has been posted have at it run all over the site. I have heard that chat and the other forums were for those who didn't post roll.
I am not sure IMO I think that the roll post section and the intro threads should be reserved for those who are posting roll and making the promise EDD. Its really our basic fundamental of the site post roll repeat. If you cant do that the quit isn't on the forefront. I guess I am not understanding what is happening with shark? He posts roll now and then but goes to intro a lot? 10 seconds more and he can post roll?
I try not to post in anyones intro until I have posted roll or I am still within my 24hours. I just thought that was how it worked would like to see what the rule is on this.
my understanding is intros can be done by anyone, but you must be nic-free to post roll in quit groups. However I've never seen this written down anywhere. Seems to me we should encouraging those that are considering quitting not driving them away from the site...
There are no written rules. The point is to drive users towards quitting and posting in the quit groups. Sometimes that happens, sometimes we never see that person again, and sometimes you get the trolls that blatantly refuse to post roll and talk shit to others for following the "status quo."
My 2 cents? If you're not posting roll and you are using, but you continue to post in your Intro day after day...eventually you need to be told to get with the program or fuck off.
There is a price of admission to play on our playground.
It is roll.
Now, for the most part, the intros are the only part of the site that we have traditionally allowed people to post stuff while using. This was to help out those thinking about quitting without an immediate exit. However, this system can be abused. Once you post a day 1 on the forum section, we ask that you keep posting roll as long as you're quit. If you post a day 1-3, and come back just to play in your intro from that point on...that person is trolling and is not serious about quitting. Remember, the intros are the public section of our site that guests can read. Do you want somebody out here spewing failure?
I guess the best answer is to look at this example specifically.
Shark posted first to his intro on July 31. After 4 days of preparing himself to quit, he posted that he:
Been through 2 cans of Smokey Mountain already this morning.
on August 3.
After he did that, you see a flurry of posts telling him to post roll. Why? Somewhat for the rules of the site, but primarily because it is an important part of our program. I wouldn't be here today had I not made the habit of posting roll daily. I guarantee there would be many more that would be in the same boat. It's what we do and how we quit. No grey areas.
He then posted for the next 4 days, and has been missing the last 3.
Honestly, if he comes back today and doesn't post roll but plays in the intros, I'm going to question his quit. He hasn't, and hasn't posted in his intro since the third (day 1).
This case doesn't seem any more special than the 800,000 times I've already seen it. Why did shark catch your attention Zam?
Good points, all. I'm not sure what got my attention about shark's post. Probably the fact that he believed his own BS addict logic...like we all did, and I love debating addict logic. I'm not saying posting in the INRO section is without limits. Well, I'm not saying it now, after you all reminded me of the troll-factor. I see your points, and cede that, even in the INTRO section, eventually we need to get to the "post or leave" place. I'm not sure that place comes after 2...yep....2 total posts. While we (you and I, my brothers) were all over this thread, shark certainly didn't begin to understand the urgency that we understood. While he was scratching his head wondering why we didn't see the brilliance of his plan and why we are so damned impatient, we told him to "post or leave" after what was literally his second post. Granted, his 3rd post was just-plain-asking-for-it-stupid, but it was still his THIRD total post.
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A Thought for the day....
I've seen a lot of "this is not your group, so f*k off" in the last few weeks. Maybe it's time to discuss to just exactly what is meant by "Your group" or "my group". If I'm not in "your group", do I..... not challenge someone that says that there is no requirement to answer any silly questions? ..... not challenge someone that "doesn't post weekends" ...not challenge someone that thinks it's OK to edit your roll post based on whether they "like" you or not? ...someone who refuses to post a number? ....someone who wants to keep a trophy can? ...someone who calls honorable a guy that has lied every day over the last 104 days?
At some point, when do you say "sorry, but I'm not gonna shut up and leave your group... I'm not gonna do that because the group your are trying to join is the group I"m in, and that group deserves people willing to hold others and me accountable. That group is called the HOF group.
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A Thought for the day....
I've seen a lot of "this is not your group, so f*k off" in the last few weeks. Maybe it's time to discuss to just exactly what is meant by "Your group" or "my group". If I'm not in "your group", do I..... not challenge someone that says that there is no requirement to answer any silly questions? ..... not challenge someone that "doesn't post weekends" ...not challenge someone that thinks it's OK to edit your roll post based on whether they "like" you or not? ...someone who refuses to post a number? ....someone who wants to keep a trophy can? ...someone who calls honorable a guy that has lied every day over the last 104 days?
At some point, when do you say "sorry, but I'm not gonna shut up and leave your group... I'm not gonna do that because the group your are trying to join is the group I"m in, and that group deserves people willing to hold others and me accountable. That group is called the HOF group.
I miss being told to fuck offÂ…..man those were the good ole days!
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A Thought for the day....
I've seen a lot of "this is not your group, so f*k off" in the last few weeks. Maybe it's time to discuss to just exactly what is meant by "Your group" or "my group". If I'm not in "your group", do I..... not challenge someone that says that there is no requirement to answer any silly questions? ..... not challenge someone that "doesn't post weekends" ...not challenge someone that thinks it's OK to edit your roll post based on whether they "like" you or not? ...someone who refuses to post a number? ....someone who wants to keep a trophy can? ...someone who calls honorable a guy that has lied every day over the last 104 days?
At some point, when do you say "sorry, but I'm not gonna shut up and leave your group... I'm not gonna do that because the group your are trying to join is the group I"m in, and that group deserves people willing to hold others and me accountable. That group is called the HOF group.
I miss being told to fuck offÂ…..man those were the good ole days!
FUCS
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A Thought for the day....
I've seen a lot of "this is not your group, so f*k off" in the last few weeks. Maybe it's time to discuss to just exactly what is meant by "Your group" or "my group".  If I'm not in "your group", do I..... not challenge someone that says that there is no requirement to answer any silly questions? ..... not challenge someone that "doesn't post weekends" ...not challenge someone that thinks it's OK to edit your roll post based on whether they "like" you or not? ...someone who refuses to post a number? ....someone who wants to keep a trophy can? ...someone who calls honorable a guy that has lied every day over the last 104 days?
At some point, when do you say "sorry, but I'm not gonna shut up and leave your group... I'm not gonna do that because the group your are trying to join is the group I"m in, and that group deserves people willing to hold others and me accountable. That group is called the HOF group.
I miss being told to fuck offÂ…..man those were the good ole days!
FUCS
x2 and Coach you are too much my Senior to tell you fuck off I will leave that to your senior. I agree with Zam where did this our group our rules thinking come from and when did pre HOF classes tell anyone anything? Where did the level of respect go for the ones that came before? I like it here and I like the structure rules are easy post roll don't lie admit error call attention to others to quote J2B have them look in the KTC mirror. We CAN NOT afford lower the bar the NIC BITCH is too strong and adversary.
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A Thought for the day....
I've seen a lot of "this is not your group, so f*k off" in the last few weeks. Maybe it's time to discuss to just exactly what is meant by "Your group" or "my group".  If I'm not in "your group", do I..... not challenge someone that says that there is no requirement to answer any silly questions? ..... not challenge someone that "doesn't post weekends" ...not challenge someone that thinks it's OK to edit your roll post based on whether they "like" you or not? ...someone who refuses to post a number? ....someone who wants to keep a trophy can? ...someone who calls honorable a guy that has lied every day over the last 104 days?
At some point, when do you say "sorry, but I'm not gonna shut up and leave your group... I'm not gonna do that because the group your are trying to join is the group I"m in, and that group deserves people willing to hold others and me accountable. That group is called the HOF group.
I miss being told to fuck offÂ…..man those were the good ole days!
FUCS
x2 and Coach you are too much my Senior to tell you fuck off I will leave that to your senior. I agree with Zam where did this our group our rules thinking come from and when did pre HOF classes tell anyone anything? Where did the level of respect go for the ones that came before? I like it here and I like the structure rules are easy post roll don't lie admit error call attention to others to quote J2B have them look in the KTC mirror. We CAN NOT afford lower the bar the NIC BITCH is too strong and adversary.
Bottom line this site works. Its not to be used in pieces or parts, you gotta use it the way it was made its not all a cart. Fuck off to the pussies that want to change it. Fuck OFF to those that want to simplify and water down the KTC way. Your group is my group. August 2013 is my small intermediate family, but this entire site is my group, the entire KTC family is my quit group. I agree with you bro, this isn't a coddle your balls,we will do it your way, let us beg you to quit place! This is a place where bad asses quit a horrible addiction, and that takes god damn balls, and sometimes busting those balls! Keep up your hard work, I would hope you would hold me accountable! Hope not, but my quit may one day count on it bro! Glad to know your there so my daily promise counts! Quit with you Erussell 203
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A Thought for the day....
I've seen a lot of "this is not your group, so f*k off" in the last few weeks. Maybe it's time to discuss to just exactly what is meant by "Your group" or "my group".  If I'm not in "your group", do I..... not challenge someone that says that there is no requirement to answer any silly questions? ..... not challenge someone that "doesn't post weekends" ...not challenge someone that thinks it's OK to edit your roll post based on whether they "like" you or not? ...someone who refuses to post a number? ....someone who wants to keep a trophy can? ...someone who calls honorable a guy that has lied every day over the last 104 days?
At some point, when do you say "sorry, but I'm not gonna shut up and leave your group... I'm not gonna do that because the group your are trying to join is the group I"m in, and that group deserves people willing to hold others and me accountable. That group is called the HOF group.
I miss being told to fuck offÂ…..man those were the good ole days!
FUCS
x2 and Coach you are too much my Senior to tell you fuck off I will leave that to your senior. I agree with Zam where did this our group our rules thinking come from and when did pre HOF classes tell anyone anything? Where did the level of respect go for the ones that came before? I like it here and I like the structure rules are easy post roll don't lie admit error call attention to others to quote J2B have them look in the KTC mirror. We CAN NOT afford lower the bar the NIC BITCH is too strong and adversary.
Bottom line this site works. Its not to be used in pieces or parts, you gotta use it the way it was made its not all a cart. Fuck off to the pussies that want to change it. Fuck OFF to those that want to simplify and water down the KTC way. Your group is my group. August 2013 is my small intermediate family, but this entire site is my group, the entire KTC family is my quit group. I agree with you bro, this isn't a coddle your balls,we will do it your way, let us beg you to quit place! This is a place where bad asses quit a horrible addiction, and that takes god damn balls, and sometimes busting those balls! Keep up your hard work, I would hope you would hold me accountable! Hope not, but my quit may one day count on it bro! Glad to know your there so my daily promise counts! Quit with you Erussell 203
But what if...the kool-aide is too strong?
I agree gents, Quit on! 'Finger'
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A Thought for the day....
I've seen a lot of "this is not your group, so f*k off" in the last few weeks. Maybe it's time to discuss to just exactly what is meant by "Your group" or "my group".  If I'm not in "your group", do I..... not challenge someone that says that there is no requirement to answer any silly questions? ..... not challenge someone that "doesn't post weekends" ...not challenge someone that thinks it's OK to edit your roll post based on whether they "like" you or not? ...someone who refuses to post a number? ....someone who wants to keep a trophy can? ...someone who calls honorable a guy that has lied every day over the last 104 days?
At some point, when do you say "sorry, but I'm not gonna shut up and leave your group... I'm not gonna do that because the group your are trying to join is the group I"m in, and that group deserves people willing to hold others and me accountable. That group is called the HOF group.
I miss being told to fuck offÂ…..man those were the good ole days!
FUCS
x2 and Coach you are too much my Senior to tell you fuck off I will leave that to your senior. I agree with Zam where did this our group our rules thinking come from and when did pre HOF classes tell anyone anything? Where did the level of respect go for the ones that came before? I like it here and I like the structure rules are easy post roll don't lie admit error call attention to others to quote J2B have them look in the KTC mirror. We CAN NOT afford lower the bar the NIC BITCH is too strong and adversary.
Bottom line this site works. Its not to be used in pieces or parts, you gotta use it the way it was made its not all a cart. Fuck off to the pussies that want to change it. Fuck OFF to those that want to simplify and water down the KTC way. Your group is my group. August 2013 is my small intermediate family, but this entire site is my group, the entire KTC family is my quit group. I agree with you bro, this isn't a coddle your balls,we will do it your way, let us beg you to quit place! This is a place where bad asses quit a horrible addiction, and that takes god damn balls, and sometimes busting those balls! Keep up your hard work, I would hope you would hold me accountable! Hope not, but my quit may one day count on it bro! Glad to know your there so my daily promise counts! Quit with you Erussell 203
But what if...the kool-aide is too strong?
I agree gents, Quit on! 'Finger'
True dat Zam! Many of these newbies still haven't learned the KTC way. These same guys will think they are cured at 100 days nor will they learn anything from those that came before them because they are not investing in their quit, they are just going through the minimal motions of posting roll. We will see how many make it to 200, 300 or beyond...
As always, you are right on target.
ps, FUCS (don't get to say that often enough)
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A Thought for the day....
I've seen a lot of "this is not your group, so f*k off" in the last few weeks. Maybe it's time to discuss to just exactly what is meant by "Your group" or "my group".  If I'm not in "your group", do I..... not challenge someone that says that there is no requirement to answer any silly questions? ..... not challenge someone that "doesn't post weekends" ...not challenge someone that thinks it's OK to edit your roll post based on whether they "like" you or not? ...someone who refuses to post a number? ....someone who wants to keep a trophy can? ...someone who calls honorable a guy that has lied every day over the last 104 days?
At some point, when do you say "sorry, but I'm not gonna shut up and leave your group... I'm not gonna do that because the group your are trying to join is the group I"m in, and that group deserves people willing to hold others and me accountable. That group is called the HOF group.
I miss being told to fuck offÂ…..man those were the good ole days!
FUCS
x2 and Coach you are too much my Senior to tell you fuck off I will leave that to your senior. I agree with Zam where did this our group our rules thinking come from and when did pre HOF classes tell anyone anything? Where did the level of respect go for the ones that came before? I like it here and I like the structure rules are easy post roll don't lie admit error call attention to others to quote J2B have them look in the KTC mirror. We CAN NOT afford lower the bar the NIC BITCH is too strong and adversary.
Bottom line this site works. Its not to be used in pieces or parts, you gotta use it the way it was made its not all a cart. Fuck off to the pussies that want to change it. Fuck OFF to those that want to simplify and water down the KTC way. Your group is my group. August 2013 is my small intermediate family, but this entire site is my group, the entire KTC family is my quit group. I agree with you bro, this isn't a coddle your balls,we will do it your way, let us beg you to quit place! This is a place where bad asses quit a horrible addiction, and that takes god damn balls, and sometimes busting those balls! Keep up your hard work, I would hope you would hold me accountable! Hope not, but my quit may one day count on it bro! Glad to know your there so my daily promise counts! Quit with you Erussell 203
But what if...the kool-aide is too strong?
I agree gents, Quit on! 'Finger'
True dat Zam! Many of these newbies still haven't learned the KTC way. These same guys will think they are cured at 100 days nor will they learn anything from those that came before them because they are not investing in their quit, they are just going through the minimal motions of posting roll. We will see how many make it to 200, 300 or beyond...
As always, you are right on target.
ps, FUCS (don't get to say that often enough)
I like to drink a gallon per day of KTC Koolaid. If I did not then I would probably be dead or very sick today.
I want to live as long as I can....I know you do to.
Thanks for being here Zam!
Take what you need, give what you can, leave the bitching to the bitches.
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A Thought for the day....
I've seen a lot of "this is not your group, so f*k off" in the last few weeks. Maybe it's time to discuss to just exactly what is meant by "Your group" or "my group".  If I'm not in "your group", do I..... not challenge someone that says that there is no requirement to answer any silly questions? ..... not challenge someone that "doesn't post weekends" ...not challenge someone that thinks it's OK to edit your roll post based on whether they "like" you or not? ...someone who refuses to post a number? ....someone who wants to keep a trophy can? ...someone who calls honorable a guy that has lied every day over the last 104 days?
At some point, when do you say "sorry, but I'm not gonna shut up and leave your group... I'm not gonna do that because the group your are trying to join is the group I"m in, and that group deserves people willing to hold others and me accountable. That group is called the HOF group.
I miss being told to fuck offÂ…..man those were the good ole days!
FUCS
x2 and Coach you are too much my Senior to tell you fuck off I will leave that to your senior. I agree with Zam where did this our group our rules thinking come from and when did pre HOF classes tell anyone anything? Where did the level of respect go for the ones that came before? I like it here and I like the structure rules are easy post roll don't lie admit error call attention to others to quote J2B have them look in the KTC mirror. We CAN NOT afford lower the bar the NIC BITCH is too strong and adversary.
Bottom line this site works. Its not to be used in pieces or parts, you gotta use it the way it was made its not all a cart. Fuck off to the pussies that want to change it. Fuck OFF to those that want to simplify and water down the KTC way. Your group is my group. August 2013 is my small intermediate family, but this entire site is my group, the entire KTC family is my quit group. I agree with you bro, this isn't a coddle your balls,we will do it your way, let us beg you to quit place! This is a place where bad asses quit a horrible addiction, and that takes god damn balls, and sometimes busting those balls! Keep up your hard work, I would hope you would hold me accountable! Hope not, but my quit may one day count on it bro! Glad to know your there so my daily promise counts! Quit with you Erussell 203
But what if...the kool-aide is too strong?
I agree gents, Quit on! 'Finger'
True dat Zam! Many of these newbies still haven't learned the KTC way. These same guys will think they are cured at 100 days nor will they learn anything from those that came before them because they are not investing in their quit, they are just going through the minimal motions of posting roll. We will see how many make it to 200, 300 or beyond...
As always, you are right on target.
ps, FUCS (don't get to say that often enough)
I like to drink a gallon per day of KTC Koolaid. If I did not then I would probably be dead or very sick today.
I want to live as long as I can....I know you do to.
Thanks for being here Zam!
Take what you need, give what you can, leave the bitching to the bitches.
well said Zam. It's a process, and the process works!
-
A Thought for the day....
I've seen a lot of "this is not your group, so f*k off" in the last few weeks. Maybe it's time to discuss to just exactly what is meant by "Your group" or "my group".  If I'm not in "your group", do I..... not challenge someone that says that there is no requirement to answer any silly questions? ..... not challenge someone that "doesn't post weekends" ...not challenge someone that thinks it's OK to edit your roll post based on whether they "like" you or not? ...someone who refuses to post a number? ....someone who wants to keep a trophy can? ...someone who calls honorable a guy that has lied every day over the last 104 days?
At some point, when do you say "sorry, but I'm not gonna shut up and leave your group... I'm not gonna do that because the group your are trying to join is the group I"m in, and that group deserves people willing to hold others and me accountable. That group is called the HOF group.
I miss being told to fuck offÂ…..man those were the good ole days!
FUCS
x2 and Coach you are too much my Senior to tell you fuck off I will leave that to your senior. I agree with Zam where did this our group our rules thinking come from and when did pre HOF classes tell anyone anything? Where did the level of respect go for the ones that came before? I like it here and I like the structure rules are easy post roll don't lie admit error call attention to others to quote J2B have them look in the KTC mirror. We CAN NOT afford lower the bar the NIC BITCH is too strong and adversary.
Bottom line this site works. Its not to be used in pieces or parts, you gotta use it the way it was made its not all a cart. Fuck off to the pussies that want to change it. Fuck OFF to those that want to simplify and water down the KTC way. Your group is my group. August 2013 is my small intermediate family, but this entire site is my group, the entire KTC family is my quit group. I agree with you bro, this isn't a coddle your balls,we will do it your way, let us beg you to quit place! This is a place where bad asses quit a horrible addiction, and that takes god damn balls, and sometimes busting those balls! Keep up your hard work, I would hope you would hold me accountable! Hope not, but my quit may one day count on it bro! Glad to know your there so my daily promise counts! Quit with you Erussell 203
But what if...the kool-aide is too strong?
I agree gents, Quit on! 'Finger'
True dat Zam! Many of these newbies still haven't learned the KTC way. These same guys will think they are cured at 100 days nor will they learn anything from those that came before them because they are not investing in their quit, they are just going through the minimal motions of posting roll. We will see how many make it to 200, 300 or beyond...
As always, you are right on target.
ps, FUCS (don't get to say that often enough)
I like to drink a gallon per day of KTC Koolaid. If I did not then I would probably be dead or very sick today.
I want to live as long as I can....I know you do to.
Thanks for being here Zam!
Take what you need, give what you can, leave the bitching to the bitches.
well said Zam. It's a process, and the process works!
My journey to the HOF taught me one thing.... KTC works as is. My first 100 days has shown me "how" to stay quit ODAAT. I continue my journey here to 200 and beyond so that I may learn to "live" quit. Proud to quit with all of you today!
-
PaddyMac02- Day 17. I was an accessory to murder in a dream last night, but there was no dip involved, so I'll eat the murder charge. QLF!
PaddyMac02- Day 14. Emergency call from work just now, and I really needed those last 2 hours. Oh well, I'm quit, and staying that way. I work 3:30pm-11:30pm. The latest I should be posting is 12pm, if I need to catch up on sleep.
PaddyMac02- Day 11. Concierge in a residential building in NYC/part time male escort for lonely women in their 50's. Welcome, Al Man. Answer the 3 questions here and with your former quit group.
PaddyMac02- Day 10. Like a BoSs, but a humble one.
PaddyMac02- Day 9. Up late on chat, slept for a bit and gonna go back to bed. Feeling good and proud to be quitting with ya'll.
PaddyMac02- MJ Day 23. Check the spreadsheet, quitters, and make sure your quit day is correct. Several of you are off, and one is off by more than 2 days, wtf?
PaddyMac02- Day 25. Physical therapy at 12pm, and a 5k tomorrow. Livin' that QuIt LiFe!
PaddyMac02- Day 26. 5k in 2 hours to be followed by a nap, and then a visit with an old friend from college. #QuitLife
PaddyMac02- Day 31. I have over 20 #'s, and have given my # to more. ODAAT
PaddyMac02- Larry Bird Day! Born and raised in NY. Embrace your quit, November!
PaddyMac02- Day 37. MCarmo44. Dude never gave up on me. I will forever be indebted to him.
PaddyMac02- Day 40. (bump fix) I'm with Flucky and Joe. I won't stray to far from KTC. The support and accountability is what got me quit, and it's what will keep me quit.
PaddyMac02- Day 48. QLF.
PaddyMac02- Day 50! I used Jake's Mint Chew in the beginning of my quit, but only use it once in awhile now. Good to have around, though.
PaddyMac02- Day 59. ODAAT.
PaddyMac02- Day 62. 10 mile race in 2 hours. DD911: Hope you've taken the day to see that people care, even if the love is a little tough. We QLF here
PaddyMac02- Day 63. Some sneaky craves the last week or so. The nic bitch is always lurking. Be mindful of that.
PaddyMac02- Day 66. Now that I've posted roll, I'll be quit for today. Whatever troubles may come down the road, I know now nicotine is not the answer to them; it's just another problem.
PaddyMac02- Day 68. Family birthday party. Loving this QuIt LiFe!
PaddyMac02- Day 70. Flucky07. I hate to tell you this, but knowingly or unknowingly, you caved. NO NICOTINE AT ALL, IN ANY FORM! WTF, MAN!!!
PaddyMac02- Day 72. In a bit of a funk, but the quit goes on. Sorry for your loss, Pclark.
PaddyMac02- Day 74. Some really effed up dreams last night. Be mindful of the 70's because they can be funky as hell. Woke up to a new member in Vince, and to see that Dave is back in the fold. Just the kind of news to defunkify my ish. Proud to be apart of this group of badass quitters. How good is life without nicotine?? Fuck big tobacco and fuck dip.
PaddyMac02- Day 79. Dave, you have my #. Text if you need me to post for you.
PaddyMac02- Day 81. How do we quit in here? We QLF.
PaddyMac02- Day 83. Turned 37 today, and my bday wish is for all of us to remain quit.
PaddyMac02- Day 94. Ordered my engraved HOF coin yesterday. 100 will be quite the accomplishment, but it's not about the hof destination, it's about the journey and our journey of quit is in it's infancy.
(anon quitter)-86- Staying quit this sunday with my brothers November SKY DIVERS. Paddhymac02 is one badass quitter. Good work brother I appreciate the effort you are putting here for us. Hats off to Paddy, Dabean and middle finger salute to the bitch. No dip today for me.
I had some time to kill on a layover, and did some searching. DamnÂ…Yes Anonymous Quitter, he is bad ass. I now see the reason Pmac has his posse. Check out those comments. Check out that dedication. For someone that was still using nic, he was the baddest ass quitter I know. I can see how that kind of stuff would help a groups quit. So what if it was just a bit untrueÂ….
-
PaddyMac02- Day 17. I was an accessory to murder in a dream last night, but there was no dip involved, so I'll eat the murder charge. QLF!
PaddyMac02- Day 14. Emergency call from work just now, and I really needed those last 2 hours. Oh well, I'm quit, and staying that way. I work 3:30pm-11:30pm. The latest I should be posting is 12pm, if I need to catch up on sleep.
PaddyMac02- Day 11. Concierge in a residential building in NYC/part time male escort for lonely women in their 50's. Welcome, Al Man. Answer the 3 questions here and with your former quit group.
PaddyMac02- Day 10. Like a BoSs, but a humble one.
PaddyMac02- Day 9. Up late on chat, slept for a bit and gonna go back to bed. Feeling good and proud to be quitting with ya'll.
PaddyMac02- MJ Day 23. Check the spreadsheet, quitters, and make sure your quit day is correct. Several of you are off, and one is off by more than 2 days, wtf?
PaddyMac02- Day 25. Physical therapy at 12pm, and a 5k tomorrow. Livin' that QuIt LiFe!
PaddyMac02- Day 26. 5k in 2 hours to be followed by a nap, and then a visit with an old friend from college. #QuitLife
PaddyMac02- Day 31. I have over 20 #'s, and have given my # to more. ODAAT
PaddyMac02- Larry Bird Day! Born and raised in NY. Embrace your quit, November!
PaddyMac02- Day 37. MCarmo44. Dude never gave up on me. I will forever be indebted to him.
PaddyMac02- Day 40. (bump fix) I'm with Flucky and Joe. I won't stray to far from KTC. The support and accountability is what got me quit, and it's what will keep me quit.
PaddyMac02- Day 48. QLF.
PaddyMac02- Day 50! I used Jake's Mint Chew in the beginning of my quit, but only use it once in awhile now. Good to have around, though.
PaddyMac02- Day 59. ODAAT.
PaddyMac02- Day 62. 10 mile race in 2 hours. DD911: Hope you've taken the day to see that people care, even if the love is a little tough. We QLF here
PaddyMac02- Day 63. Some sneaky craves the last week or so. The nic bitch is always lurking. Be mindful of that.
PaddyMac02- Day 66. Now that I've posted roll, I'll be quit for today. Whatever troubles may come down the road, I know now nicotine is not the answer to them; it's just another problem.
PaddyMac02- Day 68. Family birthday party. Loving this QuIt LiFe!
PaddyMac02- Day 70. Flucky07. I hate to tell you this, but knowingly or unknowingly, you caved. NO NICOTINE AT ALL, IN ANY FORM! WTF, MAN!!!
PaddyMac02- Day 72. In a bit of a funk, but the quit goes on. Sorry for your loss, Pclark.
PaddyMac02- Day 74. Some really effed up dreams last night. Be mindful of the 70's because they can be funky as hell. Woke up to a new member in Vince, and to see that Dave is back in the fold. Just the kind of news to defunkify my ish. Proud to be apart of this group of badass quitters. How good is life without nicotine?? Fuck big tobacco and fuck dip.
PaddyMac02- Day 79. Dave, you have my #. Text if you need me to post for you.
PaddyMac02- Day 81. How do we quit in here? We QLF.
PaddyMac02- Day 83. Turned 37 today, and my bday wish is for all of us to remain quit.
PaddyMac02- Day 94. Ordered my engraved HOF coin yesterday. 100 will be quite the accomplishment, but it's not about the hof destination, it's about the journey and our journey of quit is in it's infancy.
(anon quitter)-86- Staying quit this sunday with my brothers November SKY DIVERS. Paddhymac02 is one badass quitter. Good work brother I appreciate the effort you are putting here for us. Hats off to Paddy, Dabean and middle finger salute to the bitch. No dip today for me.
I had some time to kill on a layover, and did some searching. DamnÂ…Yes Anonymous Quitter, he is bad ass. I now see the reason Pmac has his posse. Check out those comments. Check out that dedication. For someone that was still using nic, he was the baddest ass quitter I know. I can see how that kind of stuff would help a groups quit. So what if it was just a bit untrueÂ….
That right there shows the level of deceit! Holy shit this enrages me! What a traitor to quit! We have a revolution declaring our freedom from this and our brother is a REDCOAT! What an incredible sick addict or snake!
If he lied about dipping and talked this game....He is too addicted to his addiction. He must first be honest. The fucknut can't even be honest with addicts? He is cheating! Doesn't want help or help others, he is cheating but why?
He deceived, lied etc. Why? Why keep coming back and saying all this shit with a turd in? Why not just fade away? Something smells so fowl here.
He was banned for our protection. Something is not right about this one.
Thanks for the admins who police this site. GREAT CALL ON Bouncing this bastard. If he really feels bad for this, he will accept his ban. He can and has to quit without us. He can go somewhere else but here? Not going to do him any good to be here with us.
Its okay Paddy? NO THIS IS NOT OKAY. This should be closed and we should get back to quitting. Lesson learned, if you're deceitful, you are still loyal to nicotine!
If your allegiance is to Nicotine. You are not welcome to post roll.
If anyone quits with me, you know I am good for my word and nicotine can kiss my ass!
Fuck this debate. The Ban is the Correct Call. 100% correct! Any addict that lied but didn't want the heat so they have a different day 1 than what you post...Come clean. Not for us but for you! You are not going to be successful if you think you can lie and never touch the shit again.
Honesty about this whore nicotine must be established. Honest no matter the consequences. Come clean, chicken out and fade but caving is not what we accept. Forgive? Only if the person is honest and is set never to cave again. Unconditional forgiveness? No way! It removes accountability!
Case closed. KTC police did the right thing and anyone who disagrees...you must be young in your quit. Compassion requires honesty!!!!!
Goodnight and I have been 100% honest in my 616 days quit. I am proud because I wasn't honest in 22 years of dipping. That is what I mean. I quit to be a man of my word again. Anyone who thinks this is a sham, its not. I am quit and doing this every fucking day with you.
A deceitful "Quitter" that post and humps a can? NO MAN CAN SERVE TWO MASTERS. He can't be a quitter and a caver people. Ban his ass. This is not a game, this is a fucking war on nicotine and he is a traitor.
-
PaddyMac02- Day 17. I was an accessory to murder in a dream last night, but there was no dip involved, so I'll eat the murder charge. QLF!
PaddyMac02- Day 14. Emergency call from work just now, and I really needed those last 2 hours. Oh well, I'm quit, and staying that way. I work 3:30pm-11:30pm. The latest I should be posting is 12pm, if I need to catch up on sleep.
PaddyMac02- Day 11. Concierge in a residential building in NYC/part time male escort for lonely women in their 50's. Welcome, Al Man. Answer the 3 questions here and with your former quit group.
PaddyMac02- Day 10. Like a BoSs, but a humble one.
PaddyMac02- Day 9. Up late on chat, slept for a bit and gonna go back to bed. Feeling good and proud to be quitting with ya'll.
PaddyMac02- MJ Day 23. Check the spreadsheet, quitters, and make sure your quit day is correct. Several of you are off, and one is off by more than 2 days, wtf?
PaddyMac02- Day 25. Physical therapy at 12pm, and a 5k tomorrow. Livin' that QuIt LiFe!
PaddyMac02- Day 26. 5k in 2 hours to be followed by a nap, and then a visit with an old friend from college. #QuitLife
PaddyMac02- Day 31. I have over 20 #'s, and have given my # to more. ODAAT
PaddyMac02- Larry Bird Day! Born and raised in NY. Embrace your quit, November!
PaddyMac02- Day 37. MCarmo44. Dude never gave up on me. I will forever be indebted to him.
PaddyMac02- Day 40. (bump fix) I'm with Flucky and Joe. I won't stray to far from KTC. The support and accountability is what got me quit, and it's what will keep me quit.
PaddyMac02- Day 48. QLF.
PaddyMac02- Day 50! I used Jake's Mint Chew in the beginning of my quit, but only use it once in awhile now. Good to have around, though.
PaddyMac02- Day 59. ODAAT.
PaddyMac02- Day 62. 10 mile race in 2 hours. DD911: Hope you've taken the day to see that people care, even if the love is a little tough. We QLF here
PaddyMac02- Day 63. Some sneaky craves the last week or so. The nic bitch is always lurking. Be mindful of that.
PaddyMac02- Day 66. Now that I've posted roll, I'll be quit for today. Whatever troubles may come down the road, I know now nicotine is not the answer to them; it's just another problem.
PaddyMac02- Day 68. Family birthday party. Loving this QuIt LiFe!
PaddyMac02- Day 70. Flucky07. I hate to tell you this, but knowingly or unknowingly, you caved. NO NICOTINE AT ALL, IN ANY FORM! WTF, MAN!!!
PaddyMac02- Day 72. In a bit of a funk, but the quit goes on. Sorry for your loss, Pclark.
PaddyMac02- Day 74. Some really effed up dreams last night. Be mindful of the 70's because they can be funky as hell. Woke up to a new member in Vince, and to see that Dave is back in the fold. Just the kind of news to defunkify my ish. Proud to be apart of this group of badass quitters. How good is life without nicotine?? Fuck big tobacco and fuck dip.
PaddyMac02- Day 79. Dave, you have my #. Text if you need me to post for you.
PaddyMac02- Day 81. How do we quit in here? We QLF.
PaddyMac02- Day 83. Turned 37 today, and my bday wish is for all of us to remain quit.
PaddyMac02- Day 94. Ordered my engraved HOF coin yesterday. 100 will be quite the accomplishment, but it's not about the hof destination, it's about the journey and our journey of quit is in it's infancy.
(anon quitter)-86- Staying quit this sunday with my brothers November SKY DIVERS. Paddhymac02 is one badass quitter. Good work brother I appreciate the effort you are putting here for us. Hats off to Paddy, Dabean and middle finger salute to the bitch. No dip today for me.
I had some time to kill on a layover, and did some searching. DamnÂ…Yes Anonymous Quitter, he is bad ass. I now see the reason Pmac has his posse. Check out those comments. Check out that dedication. For someone that was still using nic, he was the baddest ass quitter I know. I can see how that kind of stuff would help a groups quit. So what if it was just a bit untrueÂ….
That right there shows the level of deceit! Holy shit this enrages me! What a traitor to quit! We have a revolution declaring our freedom from this and our brother is a REDCOAT! What an incredible sick addict or snake!
If he lied about dipping and talked this game....He is too addicted to his addiction. He must first be honest. The fucknut can't even be honest with addicts? He is cheating! Doesn't want help or help others, he is cheating but why?
He deceived, lied etc. Why? Why keep coming back and saying all this shit with a turd in? Why not just fade away? Something smells so fowl here.
He was banned for our protection. Something is not right about this one.
Thanks for the admins who police this site. GREAT CALL ON Bouncing this bastard. If he really feels bad for this, he will accept his ban. He can and has to quit without us. He can go somewhere else but here? Not going to do him any good to be here with us.
Its okay Paddy? NO THIS IS NOT OKAY. This should be closed and we should get back to quitting. Lesson learned, if you're deceitful, you are still loyal to nicotine!
If your allegiance is to Nicotine. You are not welcome to post roll.
If anyone quits with me, you know I am good for my word and nicotine can kiss my ass!
Fuck this debate. The Ban is the Correct Call. 100% correct! Any addict that lied but didn't want the heat so they have a different day 1 than what you post...Come clean. Not for us but for you! You are not going to be successful if you think you can lie and never touch the shit again.
Honesty about this whore nicotine must be established. Honest no matter the consequences. Come clean, chicken out and fade but caving is not what we accept. Forgive? Only if the person is honest and is set never to cave again. Unconditional forgiveness? No way! It removes accountability!
Case closed. KTC police did the right thing and anyone who disagrees...you must be young in your quit. Compassion requires honesty!!!!!
Goodnight and I have been 100% honest in my 616 days quit. I am proud because I wasn't honest in 22 years of dipping. That is what I mean. I quit to be a man of my word again. Anyone who thinks this is a sham, its not. I am quit and doing this every fucking day with you.
A deceitful "Quitter" that post and humps a can? NO MAN CAN SERVE TWO MASTERS. He can't be a quitter and a caver people. Ban his ass. This is not a game, this is a fucking war on nicotine and he is a traitor.
I keep hearing this name, pmac is it?
I was born to lead not read so I don't know the full story, but I'm assuming he's but another weakling that caved like a little bitch...
So why should Bruce care? Why is KTC still waisting time?
Move on, focus on quitters who still have fight.
-
PaddyMac02- Day 17. I was an accessory to murder in a dream last night, but there was no dip involved, so I'll eat the murder charge. QLF!
PaddyMac02- Day 14. Emergency call from work just now, and I really needed those last 2 hours. Oh well, I'm quit, and staying that way. I work 3:30pm-11:30pm. The latest I should be posting is 12pm, if I need to catch up on sleep.
PaddyMac02- Day 11. Concierge in a residential building in NYC/part time male escort for lonely women in their 50's. Welcome, Al Man. Answer the 3 questions here and with your former quit group.
PaddyMac02- Day 10. Like a BoSs, but a humble one.
PaddyMac02- Day 9. Up late on chat, slept for a bit and gonna go back to bed. Feeling good and proud to be quitting with ya'll.
PaddyMac02- MJ Day 23. Check the spreadsheet, quitters, and make sure your quit day is correct. Several of you are off, and one is off by more than 2 days, wtf?
PaddyMac02- Day 25. Physical therapy at 12pm, and a 5k tomorrow. Livin' that QuIt LiFe!
PaddyMac02- Day 26. 5k in 2 hours to be followed by a nap, and then a visit with an old friend from college. #QuitLife
PaddyMac02- Day 31. I have over 20 #'s, and have given my # to more. ODAAT
PaddyMac02- Larry Bird Day! Born and raised in NY. Embrace your quit, November!
PaddyMac02- Day 37. MCarmo44. Dude never gave up on me. I will forever be indebted to him.
PaddyMac02- Day 40. (bump fix) I'm with Flucky and Joe. I won't stray to far from KTC. The support and accountability is what got me quit, and it's what will keep me quit.
PaddyMac02- Day 48. QLF.
PaddyMac02- Day 50! I used Jake's Mint Chew in the beginning of my quit, but only use it once in awhile now. Good to have around, though.
PaddyMac02- Day 59. ODAAT.
PaddyMac02- Day 62. 10 mile race in 2 hours. DD911: Hope you've taken the day to see that people care, even if the love is a little tough. We QLF here
PaddyMac02- Day 63. Some sneaky craves the last week or so. The nic bitch is always lurking. Be mindful of that.
PaddyMac02- Day 66. Now that I've posted roll, I'll be quit for today. Whatever troubles may come down the road, I know now nicotine is not the answer to them; it's just another problem.
PaddyMac02- Day 68. Family birthday party. Loving this QuIt LiFe!
PaddyMac02- Day 70. Flucky07. I hate to tell you this, but knowingly or unknowingly, you caved. NO NICOTINE AT ALL, IN ANY FORM! WTF, MAN!!!
PaddyMac02- Day 72. In a bit of a funk, but the quit goes on. Sorry for your loss, Pclark.
PaddyMac02- Day 74. Some really effed up dreams last night. Be mindful of the 70's because they can be funky as hell. Woke up to a new member in Vince, and to see that Dave is back in the fold. Just the kind of news to defunkify my ish. Proud to be apart of this group of badass quitters. How good is life without nicotine?? Fuck big tobacco and fuck dip.
PaddyMac02- Day 79. Dave, you have my #. Text if you need me to post for you.
PaddyMac02- Day 81. How do we quit in here? We QLF.
PaddyMac02- Day 83. Turned 37 today, and my bday wish is for all of us to remain quit.
PaddyMac02- Day 94. Ordered my engraved HOF coin yesterday. 100 will be quite the accomplishment, but it's not about the hof destination, it's about the journey and our journey of quit is in it's infancy.
(anon quitter)-86- Staying quit this sunday with my brothers November SKY DIVERS. Paddhymac02 is one badass quitter. Good work brother I appreciate the effort you are putting here for us. Hats off to Paddy, Dabean and middle finger salute to the bitch. No dip today for me.
I had some time to kill on a layover, and did some searching. DamnÂ…Yes Anonymous Quitter, he is bad ass. I now see the reason Pmac has his posse. Check out those comments. Check out that dedication. For someone that was still using nic, he was the baddest ass quitter I know. I can see how that kind of stuff would help a groups quit. So what if it was just a bit untrueÂ….
That right there shows the level of deceit! Holy shit this enrages me! What a traitor to quit! We have a revolution declaring our freedom from this and our brother is a REDCOAT! What an incredible sick addict or snake!
If he lied about dipping and talked this game....He is too addicted to his addiction. He must first be honest. The fucknut can't even be honest with addicts? He is cheating! Doesn't want help or help others, he is cheating but why?
He deceived, lied etc. Why? Why keep coming back and saying all this shit with a turd in? Why not just fade away? Something smells so fowl here.
He was banned for our protection. Something is not right about this one.
Thanks for the admins who police this site. GREAT CALL ON Bouncing this bastard. If he really feels bad for this, he will accept his ban. He can and has to quit without us. He can go somewhere else but here? Not going to do him any good to be here with us.
Its okay Paddy? NO THIS IS NOT OKAY. This should be closed and we should get back to quitting. Lesson learned, if you're deceitful, you are still loyal to nicotine!
If your allegiance is to Nicotine. You are not welcome to post roll.
If anyone quits with me, you know I am good for my word and nicotine can kiss my ass!
Fuck this debate. The Ban is the Correct Call. 100% correct! Any addict that lied but didn't want the heat so they have a different day 1 than what you post...Come clean. Not for us but for you! You are not going to be successful if you think you can lie and never touch the shit again.
Honesty about this whore nicotine must be established. Honest no matter the consequences. Come clean, chicken out and fade but caving is not what we accept. Forgive? Only if the person is honest and is set never to cave again. Unconditional forgiveness? No way! It removes accountability!
Case closed. KTC police did the right thing and anyone who disagrees...you must be young in your quit. Compassion requires honesty!!!!!
Goodnight and I have been 100% honest in my 616 days quit. I am proud because I wasn't honest in 22 years of dipping. That is what I mean. I quit to be a man of my word again. Anyone who thinks this is a sham, its not. I am quit and doing this every fucking day with you.
A deceitful "Quitter" that post and humps a can? NO MAN CAN SERVE TWO MASTERS. He can't be a quitter and a caver people. Ban his ass. This is not a game, this is a fucking war on nicotine and he is a traitor.
I keep hearing this name, pmac is it?
I was born to lead not read so I don't know the full story, but I'm assuming he's but another weakling that caved like a little bitch...
So why should Bruce care? Why is KTC still waisting time?
Move on, focus on quitters who still have fight.
I don't give a shit about pmac. I don't give a shit what Bruce thinks or doesn't think about pmac. Pmac is history. However...a shit load of people that think this douche is some sort of bad ass quitter...I do give a shit about that.
-
PaddyMac02- Day 17. I was an accessory to murder in a dream last night, but there was no dip involved, so I'll eat the murder charge. QLF!
PaddyMac02- Day 14. Emergency call from work just now, and I really needed those last 2 hours. Oh well, I'm quit, and staying that way. I work 3:30pm-11:30pm. The latest I should be posting is 12pm, if I need to catch up on sleep.
PaddyMac02- Day 11. Concierge in a residential building in NYC/part time male escort for lonely women in their 50's. Welcome, Al Man. Answer the 3 questions here and with your former quit group.
PaddyMac02- Day 10. Like a BoSs, but a humble one.
PaddyMac02- Day 9. Up late on chat, slept for a bit and gonna go back to bed. Feeling good and proud to be quitting with ya'll.
PaddyMac02- MJ Day 23. Check the spreadsheet, quitters, and make sure your quit day is correct. Several of you are off, and one is off by more than 2 days, wtf?
PaddyMac02- Day 25. Physical therapy at 12pm, and a 5k tomorrow. Livin' that QuIt LiFe!
PaddyMac02- Day 26. 5k in 2 hours to be followed by a nap, and then a visit with an old friend from college. #QuitLife
PaddyMac02- Day 31. I have over 20 #'s, and have given my # to more. ODAAT
PaddyMac02- Larry Bird Day! Born and raised in NY. Embrace your quit, November!
PaddyMac02- Day 37. MCarmo44. Dude never gave up on me. I will forever be indebted to him.
PaddyMac02- Day 40. (bump fix) I'm with Flucky and Joe. I won't stray to far from KTC. The support and accountability is what got me quit, and it's what will keep me quit.
PaddyMac02- Day 48. QLF.
PaddyMac02- Day 50! I used Jake's Mint Chew in the beginning of my quit, but only use it once in awhile now. Good to have around, though.
PaddyMac02- Day 59. ODAAT.
PaddyMac02- Day 62. 10 mile race in 2 hours. DD911: Hope you've taken the day to see that people care, even if the love is a little tough. We QLF here
PaddyMac02- Day 63. Some sneaky craves the last week or so. The nic bitch is always lurking. Be mindful of that.
PaddyMac02- Day 66. Now that I've posted roll, I'll be quit for today. Whatever troubles may come down the road, I know now nicotine is not the answer to them; it's just another problem.
PaddyMac02- Day 68. Family birthday party. Loving this QuIt LiFe!
PaddyMac02- Day 70. Flucky07. I hate to tell you this, but knowingly or unknowingly, you caved. NO NICOTINE AT ALL, IN ANY FORM! WTF, MAN!!!
PaddyMac02- Day 72. In a bit of a funk, but the quit goes on. Sorry for your loss, Pclark.
PaddyMac02- Day 74. Some really effed up dreams last night. Be mindful of the 70's because they can be funky as hell. Woke up to a new member in Vince, and to see that Dave is back in the fold. Just the kind of news to defunkify my ish. Proud to be apart of this group of badass quitters. How good is life without nicotine?? Fuck big tobacco and fuck dip.
PaddyMac02- Day 79. Dave, you have my #. Text if you need me to post for you.
PaddyMac02- Day 81. How do we quit in here? We QLF.
PaddyMac02- Day 83. Turned 37 today, and my bday wish is for all of us to remain quit.
PaddyMac02- Day 94. Ordered my engraved HOF coin yesterday. 100 will be quite the accomplishment, but it's not about the hof destination, it's about the journey and our journey of quit is in it's infancy.
(anon quitter)-86- Staying quit this sunday with my brothers November SKY DIVERS. Paddhymac02 is one badass quitter. Good work brother I appreciate the effort you are putting here for us. Hats off to Paddy, Dabean and middle finger salute to the bitch. No dip today for me.
I had some time to kill on a layover, and did some searching. DamnÂ…Yes Anonymous Quitter, he is bad ass. I now see the reason Pmac has his posse. Check out those comments. Check out that dedication. For someone that was still using nic, he was the baddest ass quitter I know. I can see how that kind of stuff would help a groups quit. So what if it was just a bit untrueÂ….
That right there shows the level of deceit! Holy shit this enrages me! What a traitor to quit! We have a revolution declaring our freedom from this and our brother is a REDCOAT! What an incredible sick addict or snake!
If he lied about dipping and talked this game....He is too addicted to his addiction. He must first be honest. The fucknut can't even be honest with addicts? He is cheating! Doesn't want help or help others, he is cheating but why?
He deceived, lied etc. Why? Why keep coming back and saying all this shit with a turd in? Why not just fade away? Something smells so fowl here.
He was banned for our protection. Something is not right about this one.
Thanks for the admins who police this site. GREAT CALL ON Bouncing this bastard. If he really feels bad for this, he will accept his ban. He can and has to quit without us. He can go somewhere else but here? Not going to do him any good to be here with us.
Its okay Paddy? NO THIS IS NOT OKAY. This should be closed and we should get back to quitting. Lesson learned, if you're deceitful, you are still loyal to nicotine!
If your allegiance is to Nicotine. You are not welcome to post roll.
If anyone quits with me, you know I am good for my word and nicotine can kiss my ass!
Fuck this debate. The Ban is the Correct Call. 100% correct! Any addict that lied but didn't want the heat so they have a different day 1 than what you post...Come clean. Not for us but for you! You are not going to be successful if you think you can lie and never touch the shit again.
Honesty about this whore nicotine must be established. Honest no matter the consequences. Come clean, chicken out and fade but caving is not what we accept. Forgive? Only if the person is honest and is set never to cave again. Unconditional forgiveness? No way! It removes accountability!
Case closed. KTC police did the right thing and anyone who disagrees...you must be young in your quit. Compassion requires honesty!!!!!
Goodnight and I have been 100% honest in my 616 days quit. I am proud because I wasn't honest in 22 years of dipping. That is what I mean. I quit to be a man of my word again. Anyone who thinks this is a sham, its not. I am quit and doing this every fucking day with you.
A deceitful "Quitter" that post and humps a can? NO MAN CAN SERVE TWO MASTERS. He can't be a quitter and a caver people. Ban his ass. This is not a game, this is a fucking war on nicotine and he is a traitor.
I keep hearing this name, pmac is it?
I was born to lead not read so I don't know the full story, but I'm assuming he's but another weakling that caved like a little bitch...
So why should Bruce care? Why is KTC still waisting time?
Move on, focus on quitters who still have fight.
I don't give a shit about pmac. I don't give a shit what Bruce thinks or doesn't think about pmac. Pmac is history. However...a shit load of people that think this douche is some sort of bad ass quitter...I do give a shit about that.
The fact that he's no longer quit would say otherwise. Some people are dumbasses, there's Bruce's opinion that you can shove up your ass prick
-
PaddyMac02- Day 17. I was an accessory to murder in a dream last night, but there was no dip involved, so I'll eat the murder charge. QLF!
PaddyMac02- Day 14. Emergency call from work just now, and I really needed those last 2 hours. Oh well, I'm quit, and staying that way. I work 3:30pm-11:30pm. The latest I should be posting is 12pm, if I need to catch up on sleep.
PaddyMac02- Day 11. Concierge in a residential building in NYC/part time male escort for lonely women in their 50's. Welcome, Al Man. Answer the 3 questions here and with your former quit group.
PaddyMac02- Day 10. Like a BoSs, but a humble one.
PaddyMac02- Day 9. Up late on chat, slept for a bit and gonna go back to bed. Feeling good and proud to be quitting with ya'll.
PaddyMac02- MJ Day 23. Check the spreadsheet, quitters, and make sure your quit day is correct. Several of you are off, and one is off by more than 2 days, wtf?
PaddyMac02- Day 25. Physical therapy at 12pm, and a 5k tomorrow. Livin' that QuIt LiFe!
PaddyMac02- Day 26. 5k in 2 hours to be followed by a nap, and then a visit with an old friend from college. #QuitLife
PaddyMac02- Day 31. I have over 20 #'s, and have given my # to more. ODAAT
PaddyMac02- Larry Bird Day! Born and raised in NY. Embrace your quit, November!
PaddyMac02- Day 37. MCarmo44. Dude never gave up on me. I will forever be indebted to him.
PaddyMac02- Day 40. (bump fix) I'm with Flucky and Joe. I won't stray to far from KTC. The support and accountability is what got me quit, and it's what will keep me quit.
PaddyMac02- Day 48. QLF.
PaddyMac02- Day 50! I used Jake's Mint Chew in the beginning of my quit, but only use it once in awhile now. Good to have around, though.
PaddyMac02- Day 59. ODAAT.
PaddyMac02- Day 62. 10 mile race in 2 hours. DD911: Hope you've taken the day to see that people care, even if the love is a little tough. We QLF here
PaddyMac02- Day 63. Some sneaky craves the last week or so. The nic bitch is always lurking. Be mindful of that.
PaddyMac02- Day 66. Now that I've posted roll, I'll be quit for today. Whatever troubles may come down the road, I know now nicotine is not the answer to them; it's just another problem.
PaddyMac02- Day 68. Family birthday party. Loving this QuIt LiFe!
PaddyMac02- Day 70. Flucky07. I hate to tell you this, but knowingly or unknowingly, you caved. NO NICOTINE AT ALL, IN ANY FORM! WTF, MAN!!!
PaddyMac02- Day 72. In a bit of a funk, but the quit goes on. Sorry for your loss, Pclark.
PaddyMac02- Day 74. Some really effed up dreams last night. Be mindful of the 70's because they can be funky as hell. Woke up to a new member in Vince, and to see that Dave is back in the fold. Just the kind of news to defunkify my ish. Proud to be apart of this group of badass quitters. How good is life without nicotine?? Fuck big tobacco and fuck dip.
PaddyMac02- Day 79. Dave, you have my #. Text if you need me to post for you.
PaddyMac02- Day 81. How do we quit in here? We QLF.
PaddyMac02- Day 83. Turned 37 today, and my bday wish is for all of us to remain quit.
PaddyMac02- Day 94. Ordered my engraved HOF coin yesterday. 100 will be quite the accomplishment, but it's not about the hof destination, it's about the journey and our journey of quit is in it's infancy.
(anon quitter)-86- Staying quit this sunday with my brothers November SKY DIVERS. Paddhymac02 is one badass quitter. Good work brother I appreciate the effort you are putting here for us. Hats off to Paddy, Dabean and middle finger salute to the bitch. No dip today for me.
I had some time to kill on a layover, and did some searching. DamnÂ…Yes Anonymous Quitter, he is bad ass. I now see the reason Pmac has his posse. Check out those comments. Check out that dedication. For someone that was still using nic, he was the baddest ass quitter I know. I can see how that kind of stuff would help a groups quit. So what if it was just a bit untrueÂ….
That right there shows the level of deceit! Holy shit this enrages me! What a traitor to quit! We have a revolution declaring our freedom from this and our brother is a REDCOAT! What an incredible sick addict or snake!
If he lied about dipping and talked this game....He is too addicted to his addiction. He must first be honest. The fucknut can't even be honest with addicts? He is cheating! Doesn't want help or help others, he is cheating but why?
He deceived, lied etc. Why? Why keep coming back and saying all this shit with a turd in? Why not just fade away? Something smells so fowl here.
He was banned for our protection. Something is not right about this one.
Thanks for the admins who police this site. GREAT CALL ON Bouncing this bastard. If he really feels bad for this, he will accept his ban. He can and has to quit without us. He can go somewhere else but here? Not going to do him any good to be here with us.
Its okay Paddy? NO THIS IS NOT OKAY. This should be closed and we should get back to quitting. Lesson learned, if you're deceitful, you are still loyal to nicotine!
If your allegiance is to Nicotine. You are not welcome to post roll.
If anyone quits with me, you know I am good for my word and nicotine can kiss my ass!
Fuck this debate. The Ban is the Correct Call. 100% correct! Any addict that lied but didn't want the heat so they have a different day 1 than what you post...Come clean. Not for us but for you! You are not going to be successful if you think you can lie and never touch the shit again.
Honesty about this whore nicotine must be established. Honest no matter the consequences. Come clean, chicken out and fade but caving is not what we accept. Forgive? Only if the person is honest and is set never to cave again. Unconditional forgiveness? No way! It removes accountability!
Case closed. KTC police did the right thing and anyone who disagrees...you must be young in your quit. Compassion requires honesty!!!!!
Goodnight and I have been 100% honest in my 616 days quit. I am proud because I wasn't honest in 22 years of dipping. That is what I mean. I quit to be a man of my word again. Anyone who thinks this is a sham, its not. I am quit and doing this every fucking day with you.
A deceitful "Quitter" that post and humps a can? NO MAN CAN SERVE TWO MASTERS. He can't be a quitter and a caver people. Ban his ass. This is not a game, this is a fucking war on nicotine and he is a traitor.
I keep hearing this name, pmac is it?
I was born to lead not read so I don't know the full story, but I'm assuming he's but another weakling that caved like a little bitch...
So why should Bruce care? Why is KTC still waisting time?
Move on, focus on quitters who still have fight.
I don't give a shit about pmac. I don't give a shit what Bruce thinks or doesn't think about pmac. Pmac is history. However...a shit load of people that think this douche is some sort of bad ass quitter...I do give a shit about that.
The fact that he's no longer quit would say otherwise. Some people are dumbasses, there's Bruce's opinion that you can shove up your ass prick
Dude, I thought you were joking when you said you didn't know anything about any pmac? Holy shit. BTW, the last time you responded to a post of mine, it was simply "SHUT THE FUCK UP". I'll take this a downright friendly exchange. We'll be sharing a sleeping bag soon.
-
PaddyMac02- Day 17. I was an accessory to murder in a dream last night, but there was no dip involved, so I'll eat the murder charge. QLF!
PaddyMac02- Day 14. Emergency call from work just now, and I really needed those last 2 hours. Oh well, I'm quit, and staying that way. I work 3:30pm-11:30pm. The latest I should be posting is 12pm, if I need to catch up on sleep.
PaddyMac02- Day 11. Concierge in a residential building in NYC/part time male escort for lonely women in their 50's. Welcome, Al Man. Answer the 3 questions here and with your former quit group.
PaddyMac02- Day 10. Like a BoSs, but a humble one.
PaddyMac02- Day 9. Up late on chat, slept for a bit and gonna go back to bed. Feeling good and proud to be quitting with ya'll.
PaddyMac02- MJ Day 23. Check the spreadsheet, quitters, and make sure your quit day is correct. Several of you are off, and one is off by more than 2 days, wtf?
PaddyMac02- Day 25. Physical therapy at 12pm, and a 5k tomorrow. Livin' that QuIt LiFe!
PaddyMac02- Day 26. 5k in 2 hours to be followed by a nap, and then a visit with an old friend from college. #QuitLife
PaddyMac02- Day 31. I have over 20 #'s, and have given my # to more. ODAAT
PaddyMac02- Larry Bird Day! Born and raised in NY. Embrace your quit, November!
PaddyMac02- Day 37. MCarmo44. Dude never gave up on me. I will forever be indebted to him.
PaddyMac02- Day 40. (bump fix) I'm with Flucky and Joe. I won't stray to far from KTC. The support and accountability is what got me quit, and it's what will keep me quit.
PaddyMac02- Day 48. QLF.
PaddyMac02- Day 50! I used Jake's Mint Chew in the beginning of my quit, but only use it once in awhile now. Good to have around, though.
PaddyMac02- Day 59. ODAAT.
PaddyMac02- Day 62. 10 mile race in 2 hours. DD911: Hope you've taken the day to see that people care, even if the love is a little tough. We QLF here
PaddyMac02- Day 63. Some sneaky craves the last week or so. The nic bitch is always lurking. Be mindful of that.
PaddyMac02- Day 66. Now that I've posted roll, I'll be quit for today. Whatever troubles may come down the road, I know now nicotine is not the answer to them; it's just another problem.
PaddyMac02- Day 68. Family birthday party. Loving this QuIt LiFe!
PaddyMac02- Day 70. Flucky07. I hate to tell you this, but knowingly or unknowingly, you caved. NO NICOTINE AT ALL, IN ANY FORM! WTF, MAN!!!
PaddyMac02- Day 72. In a bit of a funk, but the quit goes on. Sorry for your loss, Pclark.
PaddyMac02- Day 74. Some really effed up dreams last night. Be mindful of the 70's because they can be funky as hell. Woke up to a new member in Vince, and to see that Dave is back in the fold. Just the kind of news to defunkify my ish. Proud to be apart of this group of badass quitters. How good is life without nicotine?? Fuck big tobacco and fuck dip.
PaddyMac02- Day 79. Dave, you have my #. Text if you need me to post for you.
PaddyMac02- Day 81. How do we quit in here? We QLF.
PaddyMac02- Day 83. Turned 37 today, and my bday wish is for all of us to remain quit.
PaddyMac02- Day 94. Ordered my engraved HOF coin yesterday. 100 will be quite the accomplishment, but it's not about the hof destination, it's about the journey and our journey of quit is in it's infancy.
(anon quitter)-86- Staying quit this sunday with my brothers November SKY DIVERS. Paddhymac02 is one badass quitter. Good work brother I appreciate the effort you are putting here for us. Hats off to Paddy, Dabean and middle finger salute to the bitch. No dip today for me.
I had some time to kill on a layover, and did some searching. DamnÂ…Yes Anonymous Quitter, he is bad ass. I now see the reason Pmac has his posse. Check out those comments. Check out that dedication. For someone that was still using nic, he was the baddest ass quitter I know. I can see how that kind of stuff would help a groups quit. So what if it was just a bit untrueÂ….
That right there shows the level of deceit! Holy shit this enrages me! What a traitor to quit! We have a revolution declaring our freedom from this and our brother is a REDCOAT! What an incredible sick addict or snake!
If he lied about dipping and talked this game....He is too addicted to his addiction. He must first be honest. The fucknut can't even be honest with addicts? He is cheating! Doesn't want help or help others, he is cheating but why?
He deceived, lied etc. Why? Why keep coming back and saying all this shit with a turd in? Why not just fade away? Something smells so fowl here.
He was banned for our protection. Something is not right about this one.
Thanks for the admins who police this site. GREAT CALL ON Bouncing this bastard. If he really feels bad for this, he will accept his ban. He can and has to quit without us. He can go somewhere else but here? Not going to do him any good to be here with us.
Its okay Paddy? NO THIS IS NOT OKAY. This should be closed and we should get back to quitting. Lesson learned, if you're deceitful, you are still loyal to nicotine!
If your allegiance is to Nicotine. You are not welcome to post roll.
If anyone quits with me, you know I am good for my word and nicotine can kiss my ass!
Fuck this debate. The Ban is the Correct Call. 100% correct! Any addict that lied but didn't want the heat so they have a different day 1 than what you post...Come clean. Not for us but for you! You are not going to be successful if you think you can lie and never touch the shit again.
Honesty about this whore nicotine must be established. Honest no matter the consequences. Come clean, chicken out and fade but caving is not what we accept. Forgive? Only if the person is honest and is set never to cave again. Unconditional forgiveness? No way! It removes accountability!
Case closed. KTC police did the right thing and anyone who disagrees...you must be young in your quit. Compassion requires honesty!!!!!
Goodnight and I have been 100% honest in my 616 days quit. I am proud because I wasn't honest in 22 years of dipping. That is what I mean. I quit to be a man of my word again. Anyone who thinks this is a sham, its not. I am quit and doing this every fucking day with you.
A deceitful "Quitter" that post and humps a can? NO MAN CAN SERVE TWO MASTERS. He can't be a quitter and a caver people. Ban his ass. This is not a game, this is a fucking war on nicotine and he is a traitor.
I keep hearing this name, pmac is it?
I was born to lead not read so I don't know the full story, but I'm assuming he's but another weakling that caved like a little bitch...
So why should Bruce care? Why is KTC still waisting time?
Move on, focus on quitters who still have fight.
I don't give a shit about pmac. I don't give a shit what Bruce thinks or doesn't think about pmac. Pmac is history. However...a shit load of people that think this douche is some sort of bad ass quitter...I do give a shit about that.
The fact that he's no longer quit would say otherwise. Some people are dumbasses, there's Bruce's opinion that you can shove up your ass prick
Dude, I thought you were joking when you said you didn't know anything about any pmac? Holy shit. BTW, the last time you responded to a post of mine, it was simply "SHUT THE FUCK UP". I'll take this a downright friendly exchange. We'll be sharing a sleeping bag soon.
With all this verbal fucking going on... 'getaroom'
-
A quit is not just a decision. It is a series of actions that result in a quit. ...
Good stuff I found elsewhere.
-
A quit is not just a decision. It is a series of actions that result in a quit. ...
Good stuff I found elsewhere.
Very good stuff Zam. Still mystified why people show up here thinking there is a magic pill or cure...
-
a little pre Christmas bumpage for the 7th floor
-
a little pre Christmas bumpage for the 7th floor
:wub:
-
a little pre Christmas bumpage for the 7th floor
:wub:
'BanDog'
-
a little pre Christmas bumpage for the 7th floor
:wub:
'BanDog'
Yeah ...that's it....just like that....yeaeeeeeeeahhhhh!
-
I got a half-a-can to go on my last can and then thatÂ’s it. IÂ’m quittinÂ’. I know itÂ’s gonnaÂ’ work this time ‘cause I couldÂ’ve bought a full roll last night on the way home from work but I didnÂ’t! DonÂ’t worry, IÂ’m keepinÂ’ my promise. IÂ’m just gonnaÂ’ stretch this can a bit to make quittinÂ’ easier; thatÂ’s all. After that itÂ’s no more for me, no sir. IÂ’ll be a-slidinÂ’ into this quit one little pinch at a time.Â
This plan works, believe me, I’ve often quit like this before. Garanteed! I hope you don’t mind me spoutin’ off like this but I’m just so damn proud about how far I’ve come! I’m workin’ hard but I gotta’ tell ya, it’s been smooth sailin’ so far. No withdrawal stuff yet and I’ve been at it almost a week! So take it from me. That's right fellas, I’m definitely quitting last Tuesday. You can take that to the bank.
You vets just donÂ’t understand how hard it is to stop.
I'm saving this for future use. I'll probably not give Keddy any credit though.
-
You know, I'm not to the rant stage yet, but I'm close. Here' the rub...
In the last....many.....quit groups, the roll header is dominated by one thing. That one thing is NOT some awesome post about a quitters triumph. The header is NOT monopolized by some new youtube link that will make you laugh and get through another 30 minutes without tearing your lip out. The first thing a quitter reads is NOT some awesome saying thrown down the night before. The first thing you read is probably something telling you how not to fuck up roll. Or (most likely) the first thing you read is a list of guys that deserve to be "shamed". So here's my bitch.....why the hell is ROLL CALL so often monopolized by the very people that don't give a shit enough to PUT THERE OWN NAMES on it? Seriously! Anyone who had the misfortune of quitting with me in the early days knows that I do not shy away from unleashing a good rant on cavers, week day quitters, addict-logic speakers, etc. But on the ROLL? Why would I want that? The roll is the place that all of us QUITTERS get together. If some dipshit drops his name on there every 2 or 3 days, before disappearing altogether....that's his business. I'll send him a few PMs, maybe call him out in a separate post, but damned if I'm going to allow him (and his ilk) to dominate OUR (read:quitters) roll on the days he hasn't even bothered to show up! My roll is for quitters. My roll is a place where I go and say "look at all these bad asses! THEY have my back today." Now, you look at the roll and it's dominated by those who DO NOT have your back. It's dominated by those that choose NOT to quit with you today. That's bassackwards.
Roll call is the foundation of what we do here. It's what keeps us free. It deserves to be dominated by quitters.
-
You know, I'm not to the rant stage yet, but I'm close. Here' the rub...
In the last....many.....quit groups, the roll header is dominated by one thing. That one thing is NOT some awesome post about a quitters triumph. The header is NOT monopolized by some new youtube link that will make you laugh and get through another 30 minutes without tearing your lip out. The first thing a quitter reads is NOT some awesome saying thrown down the night before. The first thing you read is probably something telling you how not to fuck up roll. Or (most likely) the first thing you read is a list of guys that deserve to be "shamed". So here's my bitch.....why the hell is ROLL CALL so often monopolized by the very people that don't give a shit enough to PUT THERE OWN NAMES on it? Seriously! Anyone who had the misfortune of quitting with me in the early days knows that I do not shy away from unleashing a good rant on cavers, week day quitters, addict-logic speakers, etc. But on the ROLL? Why would I want that? The roll is the place that all of us QUITTERS get together. If some dipshit drops his name on there every 2 or 3 days, before disappearing altogether....that's his business. I'll send him a few PMs, maybe call him out in a separate post, but damned if I'm going to allow him (and his ilk) to dominate OUR (read:quitters) roll on the days he hasn't even bothered to show up! My roll is for quitters. My roll is a place where I go and say "look at all these bad asses! THEY have my back today." Now, you look at the roll and it's dominated by those who DO NOT have your back. It's dominated by those that choose NOT to quit with you today. That's bassackwards.
Roll call is the foundation of what we do here. It's what keeps us free. It deserves to be dominated by quitters.
Concur.
-
You know, I'm not to the rant stage yet, but I'm close. Here' the rub...
In the last....many.....quit groups, the roll header is dominated by one thing. That one thing is NOT some awesome post about a quitters triumph. The header is NOT monopolized by some new youtube link that will make you laugh and get through another 30 minutes without tearing your lip out. The first thing a quitter reads is NOT some awesome saying thrown down the night before. The first thing you read is probably something telling you how not to fuck up roll. Or (most likely) the first thing you read is a list of guys that deserve to be "shamed". So here's my bitch.....why the hell is ROLL CALL so often monopolized by the very people that don't give a shit enough to PUT THERE OWN NAMES on it? Seriously! Anyone who had the misfortune of quitting with me in the early days knows that I do not shy away from unleashing a good rant on cavers, week day quitters, addict-logic speakers, etc. But on the ROLL? Why would I want that? The roll is the place that all of us QUITTERS get together. If some dipshit drops his name on there every 2 or 3 days, before disappearing altogether....that's his business. I'll send him a few PMs, maybe call him out in a separate post, but damned if I'm going to allow him (and his ilk) to dominate OUR (read:quitters) roll on the days he hasn't even bothered to show up! My roll is for quitters. My roll is a place where I go and say "look at all these bad asses! THEY have my back today." Now, you look at the roll and it's dominated by those who DO NOT have your back. It's dominated by those that choose NOT to quit with you today. That's bassackwards.
Roll call is the foundation of what we do here. It's what keeps us free. It deserves to be dominated by quitters.
Concur.
Honest to god, no bullshit truth.
That, and the f'ing header is as long as roll itself. :blink:
-
You know, I'm not to the rant stage yet, but I'm close. Here' the rub...
In the last....many.....quit groups, the roll header is dominated by one thing. That one thing is NOT some awesome post about a quitters triumph. The header is NOT monopolized by some new youtube link that will make you laugh and get through another 30 minutes without tearing your lip out. The first thing a quitter reads is NOT some awesome saying thrown down the night before. The first thing you read is probably something telling you how not to fuck up roll. Or (most likely) the first thing you read is a list of guys that deserve to be "shamed". So here's my bitch.....why the hell is ROLL CALL so often monopolized by the very people that don't give a shit enough to PUT THERE OWN NAMES on it? Seriously! Anyone who had the misfortune of quitting with me in the early days knows that I do not shy away from unleashing a good rant on cavers, week day quitters, addict-logic speakers, etc. But on the ROLL? Why would I want that? The roll is the place that all of us QUITTERS get together. If some dipshit drops his name on there every 2 or 3 days, before disappearing altogether....that's his business. I'll send him a few PMs, maybe call him out in a separate post, but damned if I'm going to allow him (and his ilk) to dominate OUR (read:quitters) roll on the days he hasn't even bothered to show up! My roll is for quitters. My roll is a place where I go and say "look at all these bad asses! THEY have my back today." Now, you look at the roll and it's dominated by those who DO NOT have your back. It's dominated by those that choose NOT to quit with you today. That's bassackwards.
Roll call is the foundation of what we do here. It's what keeps us free. It deserves to be dominated by quitters.
Concur.
Honest to god, no bullshit truth.
That, and the f'ing header is as long as roll itself. :blink:
I think it is important to have the "first steps" and instructions for posting roll on the open group. Newbies need some direction. Once the groups closes then that info can be removed.
I do agree that the MIA/public shameing is not necessary and is probably not effective.
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You know, I'm not to the rant stage yet, but I'm close. Here' the rub...
In the last....many.....quit groups, the roll header is dominated by one thing. That one thing is NOT some awesome post about a quitters triumph. The header is NOT monopolized by some new youtube link that will make you laugh and get through another 30 minutes without tearing your lip out. The first thing a quitter reads is NOT some awesome saying thrown down the night before. The first thing you read is probably something telling you how not to fuck up roll. Or (most likely) the first thing you read is a list of guys that deserve to be "shamed". So here's my bitch.....why the hell is ROLL CALL so often monopolized by the very people that don't give a shit enough to PUT THERE OWN NAMES on it? Seriously! Anyone who had the misfortune of quitting with me in the early days knows that I do not shy away from unleashing a good rant on cavers, week day quitters, addict-logic speakers, etc. But on the ROLL? Why would I want that? The roll is the place that all of us QUITTERS get together. If some dipshit drops his name on there every 2 or 3 days, before disappearing altogether....that's his business. I'll send him a few PMs, maybe call him out in a separate post, but damned if I'm going to allow him (and his ilk) to dominate OUR (read:quitters) roll on the days he hasn't even bothered to show up! My roll is for quitters. My roll is a place where I go and say "look at all these bad asses! THEY have my back today." Now, you look at the roll and it's dominated by those who DO NOT have your back. It's dominated by those that choose NOT to quit with you today. That's bassackwards.
Roll call is the foundation of what we do here. It's what keeps us free. It deserves to be dominated by quitters.
Concur.
Honest to god, no bullshit truth.
That, and the f'ing header is as long as roll itself. :blink:
I think it is important to have the "first steps" and instructions for posting roll on the open group. Newbies need some direction. Once the groups closes then that info can be removed.
I do agree that the MIA/public shameing is not necessary and is probably not effective.
Thanks for thoughts, Snot. You're right about something, or some link, to help newbs post. But to clarify my position on MIA lists and "shame"...if public shaming will help to pull someones head out of there ass, give it a shot. I have no problem with that. BUT NOT ON THE ROLL. MIA lists...i think are VERY effective. But maybe I view the MIA list differently. When I (and other BoMBs) was making up MIA lists, the list would go up in the late afternoon most days. The point wasn't to dog the quitter for not posting roll (although we did that on occasion) In fact, it didn't matter if that guy ever saw the list or not. The list was not for the guy that missed roll. It was for the rest of us. The MIA list was made to encourage other quitters to reach out and get people to post roll TODAY. You see, they hadn't yet MISSED ROLL. The point of the MIA list was (in the BoMB) to see that they don't MISS ROLL TODAY. There are probably some good reasons to occasionally view who didn't post yesterday, but that information seems to be infinitely less valuable than who still needs to post TODAY.
My view....listing a group of people that didn't post yesterday is wasted effort. The spreadsheet will tell you that already. Getting someone to post TODAY is never wasted effort. You can't get a person to post "yesterday."
In case someone wonders how we used to do it, if not on the roll header, here is a typical BoMB MIA list. (http://forum.killthecan.org/single/?p=1498962&t=1008017) This is not something the BoMB pioneered.
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damn it....
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damn it....
Zam - in Oct12 I did the similar thing to your link,
in keeping the spreadsheet, around 4 pm eastern time I sent out the MIA list, separate from roll. It got the point across and even listed those who normally posted late per their schedule in a separated portion.
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damn it....
Zam - in Oct12 I did the similar thing to your link,
in keeping the spreadsheet, around 4 pm eastern time I sent out the MIA list, separate from roll. It got the point across and even listed those who normally posted late per their schedule in a separated portion.
YES!
I am not sure when adding it the header became the new wave, I am sure it was done in 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012, and 2013 at various points, but the premise of roll was nailed in Zam's post - who is here, giving their word, today.
the MIA list in May 11 was the same thing - mid afternoon update of who was missing, start hitting the PM's and texts and calling. Get em on roll for the day. Fuck yesterday.
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derp
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You know, I'm not to the rant stage yet, but I'm close. Here' the rub...
In the last....many.....quit groups, the roll header is dominated by one thing. That one thing is NOT some awesome post about a quitters triumph. The header is NOT monopolized by some new youtube link that will make you laugh and get through another 30 minutes without tearing your lip out. The first thing a quitter reads is NOT some awesome saying thrown down the night before. The first thing you read is probably something telling you how not to fuck up roll. Or (most likely) the first thing you read is a list of guys that deserve to be "shamed". So here's my bitch.....why the hell is ROLL CALL so often monopolized by the very people that don't give a shit enough to PUT THERE OWN NAMES on it? Seriously! Anyone who had the misfortune of quitting with me in the early days knows that I do not shy away from unleashing a good rant on cavers, week day quitters, addict-logic speakers, etc. But on the ROLL? Why would I want that? The roll is the place that all of us QUITTERS get together. If some dipshit drops his name on there every 2 or 3 days, before disappearing altogether....that's his business. I'll send him a few PMs, maybe call him out in a separate post, but damned if I'm going to allow him (and his ilk) to dominate OUR (read:quitters) roll on the days he hasn't even bothered to show up! My roll is for quitters. My roll is a place where I go and say "look at all these bad asses! THEY have my back today." Now, you look at the roll and it's dominated by those who DO NOT have your back. It's dominated by those that choose NOT to quit with you today. That's bassackwards.
Roll call is the foundation of what we do here. It's what keeps us free. It deserves to be dominated by quitters.
Concur.
Honest to god, no bullshit truth.
That, and the f'ing header is as long as roll itself. :blink:
I think it is important to have the "first steps" and instructions for posting roll on the open group. Newbies need some direction. Once the groups closes then that info can be removed.
I do agree that the MIA/public shameing is not necessary and is probably not effective.
Thanks for thoughts, Snot. You're right about something, or some link, to help newbs post. But to clarify my position on MIA lists and "shame"...if public shaming will help to pull someones head out of there ass, give it a shot. I have no problem with that. BUT NOT ON THE ROLL. MIA lists...i think are VERY effective. But maybe I view the MIA list differently. When I (and other BoMBs) was making up MIA lists, the list would go up in the late afternoon most days. The point wasn't to dog the quitter for not posting roll (although we did that on occasion) In fact, it didn't matter if that guy ever saw the list or not. The list was not for the guy that missed roll. It was for the rest of us. The MIA list was made to encourage other quitters to reach out and get people to post roll TODAY. You see, they hadn't yet MISSED ROLL. The point of the MIA list was (in the BoMB) to see that they don't MISS ROLL TODAY. There are probably some good reasons to occasionally view who didn't post yesterday, but that information seems to be infinitely less valuable than who still needs to post TODAY.
My view....listing a group of people that didn't post yesterday is wasted effort. The spreadsheet will tell you that already. Getting someone to post TODAY is never wasted effort. You can't get a person to post "yesterday."
In case someone wonders how we used to do it, if not on the roll header, here is a typical BoMB MIA list. (http://forum.killthecan.org/single/?p=1498962&t=1008017) This is not something the BoMB pioneered.
you are correct Zam i liked it better that way also...this place could use a zam rant once in a while...
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This guy does not get it....not yet anyway. (http://forum.killthecan.org/single/?p=8509465&t=10423364)
The above thread concerns me.
1. It does not take balls to admit you caved and come back to KTC. Guys that come back to KTC after caving are mostly the same guys that come to KTC the first time - they are scared. They feel helpless and understand that, alone, they will fail again soon. They know that they are about to continue failing unless they do something....anything. These are the guys that just spent 10 minutes standing 3 inches away from the bathroom mirror deciding if that "thing" is going to end with a face removal. They are the ones almost in tears because they just realized that THEY are the one getting laid off...and it didn't help that they were late 3 times last month because they "had to" stop and buy dip. Etc.etc. The guys come here, and definitely the guys coming back, are here because they are scared. Balls has NOTHING to do with it. When you are drowning, does it take balls to grab on when someone throws you a rope? What DOES take balls? Laying open your weaknesses and failures takes balls...being honest and open about why you have F($ING FAILED over and over, and why you need to get this quit under way. It's damned painful to reopen that embarrassment and examine it. It's painful to tell others that your integrity was lacking. It hurts to admit that you were an idiot for telling people all those years that you did it because you "loved dipping." It's damned hard (it takes balls) to stay in the conversation when every fiber of your being wants to just crawl in a hole and pretend you did not make a series of VERY shitty decisions.
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This guy does not get it...not yet anyway. (http://forum.killthecan.org/single/?p=8509465&t=10423364)
The above thread concerns me.
2. H insinuates strongly that there are many on this site that are not as clean as their number suggests. He is wrong. I can't prove it. There is no doubt a few. And there is no doubt that integrity issues occur. But he's wrong about the number. Way wrong. Simply put...most human beings avoid situations where their actions are in contrast to their statements/beliefs/ideals. (cognitive dissonance theory, in case your'e wondering). So it is my strong belief that the VAST majority (of the exceedingly small minority of "liars") simply do not stay here any length of time. Perpetuating a lie is not something that most people will go out of their way, EDD, to do. So they just...disappear. Or find "fault" with KTC and storm out. Whatever. The point is that I doubt very, very seriously that there is ANY significant population posting a number other than the truth. Here's an example of the ridiculousness of H's argument - Would someone post EDD for 947 days just to avoid admitting a cave? Would any significant (or any) number of people post roll EDD for 947 days if posting roll was basically 947 reminders that they were a lying scumbag with no integrity? The person able to do this would be 1 in a billion.... 99.9% of those who post lies (.001% of those posting) would simply fade out quickly...leaving KTC with....wow....a shit load of real quitters.
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This guy does not get it...not yet anyway. (http://forum.killthecan.org/single/?p=8509465&t=10423364)
The above thread concerns me.
3. "Last, this psychosis that some members have that there has to be a great reason to cave is laughable. People fuck up an cave. There is no great reason. Its always a moment of weakness that gets them. " -H
Wrong....just...way wrong. There is always a reason. Most likely, there are multiple reasons. People do not just "fuck up and cave." That's crazy logic. That kind of thinking leads others to think caving is beyond one's control. This is THE most screwed up part of H's post. "Laughable?" Bull Shit. Insinuating that people simply "fuck up and cave" in a moment of "weakness" is laughable. And it's a freakin' insult to everyone that has burned a ton a bridges in order to stay quit. It's a insult to every day 5 quitter who put staying quit above one night at the local watering hole with buddies who don't yet realize they are slaves and pawns. It's an insult to anyone that does what it takes to stay quit...even when that means putting forth effort, planning and (yes) temporary discomfort.
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Well put Zam.
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...poof
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Comma is a helluva achievement, congrats!
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Comma is a helluva achievement, congrats!
Congrats on getting your dangler!
'oh yeah'
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OK, If I had known that this thread would stay with me here at KTC as my official intro, I definitely would have re-thunk the title. And I might have posted stuff that actually had to do with an introduction. So here goes a slightly less foggy, slightly more informative introduction.
Oh, but on the contrary, seeing that a guy with such a cantankerous beginning (neatly encapsulated in that title), made it to 1,000, well, that's inspiring.
Congratulations! and Thank You!
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4 years my friend awesome 'boob'
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4 years my friend awesome 'boob'
Holy shit Zam great job keep up the great work
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4 years my friend awesome 'boob'
Holy shit Zam great job keep up the great work
Congrats brother on 4 years of freedom...bad ass
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24th Floor bumpage
'oh yeah'