KillTheCan.org Accountability Forum
Community => Introductions => Topic started by: TryingToHelp on December 05, 2012, 12:13:00 PM
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your site is wonderful, and thank you for all your are doing to help so many people.
I am hoping for some guidance. Is there a forum for spouses? I need help. The one page on spousal support has been exhausted. After 8 years of marriage and approximately 5 years of quitting (apparently less of "really this time")... I am running out of motivation to try to help anymore. The lies, the hiding, the worry, the irritability, the expense, the lies, the lies, the worry, seeing the angst, wanting to help, more lies, more worry, more anger, more irritability, depression ... I am moving from how can I help toward how can I get help? It is breaking my heart. Since he wasn't honest about it before we married, I feel like a victim of fraud. I didn't sign up for this. It is one thing if it started after we married, but it was a "pre-existing condition" that I was not told about but get to deal with all the consequences. The health concerns terrify me. His parents (smokers) are both dead from heart disease. This is a ticking time bomb that has to be defused once and for all. I won't write a book here. But I feel like we have tried everything. He will at least now come to me and ask for help instead of waiting for me to find a stash and freak out (from being lied to and being slapped in the face with the worry again), but since nothing I do helps and all my ideas are rejected, I am past wanting to get involved. I found this site years ago, and he values it. He even got to 100 days once, and I made him a "World's Best Quitter" certificate. He has tried so many things. I have literally lost count now (I am an engineer, good with numbers...) He now finally wants my help and I am worn out and don't want to be involved and set up for another cycle of hope and then right back where we started. Please don't hate me or flame me. I don't understand addiction to this degree. I am one of those freaks who used to smoke, put them down, then could randomly smoke socially (drinking) and not be a habit and doesn't miss it. Addiction runs rampant in my family so I don't see how I could have not gotten the gene, but it seems I didn't. So it is hard for me to understand how someone can want to not do something so badly and then go back to it so many times despite so many approaches and support. If it was free and laying around like candy in the breakroom, maybe, but deliberately walking into a store and paying hard earned money for poison and starting the cycle over blows my mind. Especially after we have moved to a state where it costs twice as much and he was excited because he would not be willing to pay $5+ for a can of Grizzly. Anyway... I don't know what to do now. Doing the same thing is not an option. What now... :'-(
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I wish I had better news, I really do... but he has to quit for himself. He has to get to the point that he is not willing to accept failure any more. Until he gets to that point, there is little you or I or anyone here can do to help. All of us here were like him at one time - a slave. All of us had to get to the point that we were thoroughly sick of being slaves before we were able to gain control of our addiction. So it is with your husband. When he gets to that point, we can help him get through the rough spots.
Don't mean to get overly personal, but to me it sounds like the two of you might benefit from some marriage counseling as it seems as if this has built up quite a bit of resentment.
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TryingToHelp,
I, unfortunately, agree with 30yrAddict. No amount of want will help in this case - it truly has to come from him. Addiction is truly a horrible thing. It may be hard for you to understand, given that you've a past with nicotine, but you were fortunate enough to quit before it was an addiction. *(Good for you! - but it makes it even tougher to understand the addict's mind.)
Nicotine may not seem too bad when you compare it to other "major" drugs like meth, cocaine, etc... Because the damage is so much slower, people disregard it or downplay the addiction. It is NO DIFFERENT... Addicts harbor - cherish (almost) that which they crave! I hated EVERY minute that I used... Dip and smokes... I told myself that I enjoyed it... and would tell others - but the truth is that the little voice in my mind would scream that I HATE IT because I cannot stop it.
I quit using dip for well over a year - and it was a death that triggered my fall. My cousin dies prematurely in a car accident - 21 year old soldier between deployments, and our family of guys share his last can of dip... There is no occasional use when you are an addict.
As for the pre-existing condition and dealing with his lies and such... if you have not told him how you feel, tell him. If fear of death doesn't motivate him enough, then fear of love will? I don't know what to say... fruitless my words seem to be.
Best of luck!
algoan
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Thank you, 30YearAddict.
Slave is a good description.
Yes, counseling is a good suggestion. I don't think he is open to that either. And overall things are good and improving. This one trap keeps popping up. Will look into that for myself though at least. I can address my anger and disappointment on my own.
Yoda has it right, and it seems so simple.
I will just encourage him to come back here and start his day count again.
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And alogan1023, that rings very true and familiar.
I see the parallels and denial with the "major" drugs. i will go for another frank talk about my feelings and see if I can get his true intentions and more direct wishes for how I can help. But I know it is not about me. I just feel so helpless. I am a problem solver and this is so frustrating.
I have seen those big triggers mess up others as well. Best wishes in getting past that. That is a terrible loss.
thanks...
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Dont give up on him. Its not himself making these decisions, its his addiction. I like to think of when people finally realize that they're killing themselves the aha moment. Lets just hope he has his sooner than later. Theres many things you can do to try to induce this such as not giving up support. You need to stay strong for him and you guys will figure this out. If he wants someone to talk to personally feel free to have him PM me. Hell we've all been through this shit and it sure as hell helps to have someone else there for you.
First thing first get him to post up!
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This is helping... :D
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Its not himself making these decisions, its his addiction.
I'm gonna go ahead and disagree with you here.
Speaking from my own experience, I knew from the first time I packed a lip full of that cancerous shit at age 14, that it would give me cancer. I knew it would kill my gums. I knew it would dissolve my teeth. I knew it could kill me. But I did it anyway.
As I continued doing it, it turned into an addiction. I didn't realize it was happening, but it did. I spent years trying to stop because people asked me to. As stop I did. I knew I shouldn't go back to it because it would kill me, but I did it anyway.
The one day, BAM. I didn't want to be a slave any more. So I quit. That was 70 days ago.
If my addiction could make decisions for me, wouldn't it have stopped me from quitting?
Would it have ever even let me realize I was an addict?
No. I made those decisions. All me. Just like TryingToHelp's man is now. He knows what he's doing. It all comes down to him now to do something about it.
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The one day, BAM. I didn't want to be a slave any more. So I quit. That was 70 days ago.
If my addiction could make decisions for me, wouldn't it have stopped me from quitting?
Would it have ever even let me realize I was an addict?
No. I made those decisions. All me.
Well that is what makes sense in my brain. And that seems to be what happened with the people I know who have been able to stay quit. They may have had rough spots and had to fight the fall, but had made that committment to themselves and stayed the course.
It is a decision.
Finally choosing to be done.
And it doesn't make any sense, because he is strong and does everything else he puts his mind to. This one thing is such an evil curse.
What made you finally decided not to be a slave anymore, for yourself?
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Its not himself making these decisions, its his addiction.
I'm gonna go ahead and disagree with you here.
Speaking from my own experience, I knew from the first time I packed a lip full of that cancerous shit at age 14, that it would give me cancer. I knew it would kill my gums. I knew it would dissolve my teeth. I knew it could kill me. But I did it anyway.
As I continued doing it, it turned into an addiction. I didn't realize it was happening, but it did. I spent years trying to stop because people asked me to. As stop I did. I knew I shouldn't go back to it because it would kill me, but I did it anyway.
The one day, BAM. I didn't want to be a slave any more. So I quit. That was 70 days ago.
If my addiction could make decisions for me, wouldn't it have stopped me from quitting?
Would it have ever even let me realize I was an addict?
No. I made those decisions. All me. Just like TryingToHelp's man is now. He knows what he's doing. It all comes down to him now to do something about it.
Nicotine is more addictive than crack. This drug has the power, obviously, to completely stop rational thought and replace it with the need for more of the drug.
Your addiction can make decisions for you, and this is exactly why you continued to dip for however long you did. You had your AHA moment where you thought rationally about what you were doing to yourself and had the strength to stop.
Nicotine DOES have the power to make you not realize you're an addict and it DOES have the power to stop you from quitting. Why do you think there are so many people who dont make it on this site? Why are there so many people who dont even try to quit? WE ARE the minority when it comes to smokeless tobacco.
You must have been one real smart kid when you started dipping because I can tell you when I started the thought of cancer or oral problems never crossed my mind. Im willing to bet this is the same with the majority of the other people here because we were KIDS we thought we were invincible.
You say you spent years trying to stop your addiction, you sure it didnt make decisions for you?
Anyways this has absolutely nothing to do with the guy were trying to help so il end this with tryingtohelp dont give up!
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Its not himself making these decisions, its his addiction.
I'm gonna go ahead and disagree with you here.
Speaking from my own experience, I knew from the first time I packed a lip full of that cancerous shit at age 14, that it would give me cancer. I knew it would kill my gums. I knew it would dissolve my teeth. I knew it could kill me. But I did it anyway.
As I continued doing it, it turned into an addiction. I didn't realize it was happening, but it did. I spent years trying to stop because people asked me to. As stop I did. I knew I shouldn't go back to it because it would kill me, but I did it anyway.
The one day, BAM. I didn't want to be a slave any more. So I quit. That was 70 days ago.
If my addiction could make decisions for me, wouldn't it have stopped me from quitting?
Would it have ever even let me realize I was an addict?
No. I made those decisions. All me. Just like TryingToHelp's man is now. He knows what he's doing. It all comes down to him now to do something about it.
Nicotine is more addictive than crack. This drug has the power, obviously, to completely stop rational thought and replace it with the need for more of the drug.
Your addiction can make decisions for you, and this is exactly why you continued to dip for however long you did. You had your AHA moment where you thought rationally about what you were doing to yourself and had the strength to stop.
Nicotine DOES have the power to make you not realize you're an addict and it DOES have the power to stop you from quitting. Why do you think there are so many people who dont make it on this site? Why are there so many people who dont even try to quit? WE ARE the minority when it comes to smokeless tobacco.
You must have been one real smart kid when you started dipping because I can tell you when I started the thought of cancer or oral problems never crossed my mind. Im willing to bet this is the same with the majority of the other people here because we were KIDS we thought we were invincible.
You say you spent years trying to stop your addiction, you sure it didnt make decisions for you?
Anyways this has absolutely nothing to do with the guy were trying to help so il end this with tryingtohelp dont give up!
I've gotta disagree entirely. If nicotine made all my decisions for me then I never would have ended up here. Sure it can cloud our judgment and impair our rational thought, but if it comletely sapped us of free will then none of us would be here and this site wouldn't exist. It's a slap in the face to all of the successful quitters here to say that we're the lucky minority whom fate has decided to unshackle from the the bonds of nicotine. Bullshit! I quit because I got sick and fucking tired of hiding in the dark away from the world so that I could have a dip. Sorry to get all philosophical up in here, but the spirit was moving me just then.
Anyways, Tryingtohelp, I'm not married so I can't speak to any counseling. But I can tell you that if he wants to put on his big boy pants is a decision that's entirely up to him and not you.
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There is alot being said here to help.
Yes - the ultimate decision must be within his mind, and it must be for a reason for HIM, and not a quit that would be based on 'because they want me to'
However - I also believe that a person may only need to read or see that one thing, to hear that one word, to feel just that little spark that will snap the switch in the brain that would provide that push to make oneself quit.
Therefore, we invite you spouse to have a look through the hall of fame speaches where he will read the words of people just like himself, maybe something with catch his eye.
Have him scan through the intros and see that although we may be from all types and walks of life, we all have the same issues and have come together here in a brotherhood to provide a valuable strength in our fight.
Have him jump into the live chat room and actually ask any questions he may have.
We cannot make him quit, but we might be able to give him what he needs to flip his own switch.
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Anyways this has absolutely nothing to do with the guy were trying to help so il end this with tryingtohelp dont give up!
...I quit because I got sick and fucking tired of hiding in the dark away from the world so that I could have a dip.
It is all relevant to him too. These different perspectives, I see that battle in him too.
I think the hiding in the dark is an important facet for him too, and he is sick of it. It isn't just me he hides it from. There are very few places/people he wouldn't hide it from.
When he started way back when, I don't think we knew it was so unhealthy? Back then it was a safe alternative to smoking, right? He has known better for a long time though. He worries about it killing him. So that isn't enough motivation.
I think for him that philosophy of being sick and fucking tired of hiding and being a slave is what will do it. But finding that switch and flipping it... The final... "I don't do this anymore even though it may haunt me at times, I just don't do it..." He has to find tht moment.
And thank you all, i won't give up. I will be more patient.
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There is alot being said here to help.
Yes - the ultimate decision must be within his mind, and it must be for a reason for HIM, and not a quit that would be based on 'because they want me to'
However - I also believe that a person may only need to read or see that one thing, to hear that one word, to feel just that little spark that will snap the switch in the brain that would provide that push to make oneself quit.
Therefore, we invite you spouse to have a look through the hall of fame speaches where he will read the words of people just like himself, maybe something with catch his eye.
Have him scan through the intros and see that although we may be from all types and walks of life, we all have the same issues and have come together here in a brotherhood to provide a valuable strength in our fight.
Have him jump into the live chat room and actually ask any questions he may have.
We cannot make him quit, but we might be able to give him what he needs to flip his own switch.
That is a good idea. Finding that perspective that speaks to you... find that switch. it is different for so many. he tends to dismiss some approaches if it doesn't resonate.
I will encourage him to be more active again. I think it has really helped in the past when he made some good tries, but we have had a lot of transitions that triggered him back. time to buckle down and find that switch.
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In reading this, you sound much like my wife did in begging me to stop. We spent close to two grand in counseling to learn about addiction, addict behavior....all the same resources you see here. I have a question for tou though. Have you done any insight for yourself? Co-dependancy is a big part of this equation. I encourage you to research and learn what you can on that. Once my wife got herself in order, MY addiction shone so bright that I couldnt ignore it. Thus is what finally got me into the counselors office.
I am not saying that you have any issues, but just ask that you look inside yourself to be sure. Your story just rings so familiar to my situation.
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Tryingto Help,
Please be careful. You pushing him may only aggravate him and cause him to resent you. Subtle pushing can be ok...We men learn to tolerate that pretty quick... ;)
If he talks about quitting, support him. I know you are tired of the disappointments, but all of us have tried and failed at some point...
Have you read Tom Jenny Kern's story? (http://www.killthecan.org/facts/jennykern.asp) Has he?
Encourage him to get on our site. He will find endless help from some of the finest people you may never meet. He too can develop the special bond that most of us have and learn to use it to keep him strong.
Each quit is different. Me, I just decided one day that when my can was empty, I was done. I stuck to it, but it was a battle for the first few months! Others have their own story.
I'm glad you found our site. When your husband is ready, hopefully he will use it. If he does, and he follows the process that we have learned really works, he will be a successful quitter.
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Sounds like he wants to quit. Most of us were failures at that before ending up here. If he is like I was he hates himself for the way he's behaving.
If he's looking for help from you I recommend getting his ass in here then back off and see what happens. Let KTC work on him a while and take the burden off you.
I joined almost as an afterthought but after reading peoples experience and sharing the fight with others, the light went on for me and the real motivation to quit forever set in.
I did not come to KTC motivated to quit forever but I figured I could quit for a day.
My family was supportive as best they could but they don't understand at all what I went thru. Still don't and praying they never do.
Strangers who are making the journey are far more capable of helping me than the people I am closest to.
If he can commit to joining KTC, introduce himself, get some numbers and get engaged it might just stick. It did for me.
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As you can tell by now (if you didn't already know) he has to be the one to quit, you can't quit for him. When he comes and posts day 1 he will have support here. Until that day - it is what it is, you, me, loot, obama (or bush if you'd rather) and the pope can't quit for him.