KillTheCan.org Accountability Forum
Community => Introductions => Topic started by: Mister on September 19, 2016, 01:23:00 PM
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I was curious about what the KTC community has to say about the findings of the Tobacco Harm Reduction organization, especially in regards to smokeless tobacco:
http://www.tobaccoharmreduction.org/faq ... obacco.htm (http://www.tobaccoharmreduction.org/faq/smokelesstobacco.htm)
In a nutshell, they claim that the scientific evidence does not prove a causal relationship between the use of smokeless tobacco and oral cancer or any other serious disease. That smoking tobacco is the real known culprit. And that since nicotine isn't harmful in and of itself, if someone is unable to completely give up nicotine, they should instead switch to other forms of nicotine.
Please give this a read and I would love to hear comments about this. Thanks.
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Look, even if you could convince me that smokeless tobacco was harmless, and even if I could get it, and it wouldn't cost me a thing, I still wouldn't go back.
I am no longer a slave to nicotine.
I am no longer a slave to nicotine.
I am no longer a slave to nicotine.
Even if it were safe and free, it is disgusting.
It ripped the fuck out of my lip.
It disintegrated one of my molars, and I now wear a $1,000 gold cap over my tooth.
So I didn't even read the link you posted, but here's my reaction.
What a bunch of fucking bullshit.
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Didn't read it but what if the chances of getting cancer from big tobacco are 1/10 or 1/50 or 1/100? I rolled the dice enough to know that I don't want to increase my odds of getting mouth cancer. Do what you will but I am free of chew and nicotine and I will never go back.
ID
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Don't get me wrong, I realize there are many, MANY good reasons to quit. I didn't share this to argue against quitting or to somehow justify continuing to use. But I do find it very interesting when conventional wisdom is challenged. Who would have ever thought it is possible the science simply does not back up the claims here. That correlation has been substituted for causation. I was shocked to read this!
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Don't get me wrong, I realize there are many, MANY good reasons to quit. I didn't share this to argue against quitting or to somehow justify continuing to use. But I do find it very interesting when conventional wisdom is challenged. Who would have ever thought it is possible the science simply does not back up the claims here. That correlation has been substituted for causation. I was shocked to read this!
lets say someone here read your article and went back to nic only to get oral cancer........even if science couldn't prove it gave him cancer he truly felt that it did .....even though it was his choice you sort of were involved....how would you feel
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Don't get me wrong, I realize there are many, MANY good reasons to quit. I didn't share this to argue against quitting or to somehow justify continuing to use. But I do find it very interesting when conventional wisdom is challenged. Who would have ever thought it is possible the science simply does not back up the claims here. That correlation has been substituted for causation. I was shocked to read this!
My view: this is a great topic of discussion, but this forum is not the place for that discussion. Users of this site are, given their condition, in a particularly fragile mental state. Many, especially those earlier into their quit, will take *any* reason if it will justify them buying a can of dip. Reading that ST isn't that harmful will look like such a reason; it might end someone's quit.
That being said, I'll note a few things that should be considered along with the meta-analysis we get from this group. (By the way, note that this Tobacco Harm Reduction site is just the site for a lab group at a university.) So, the things to consider: (1) people in general are very bad at interpreting science. To make going back to using ST rational, you have to have *more* confidence that your ability to read and evaluate the relevant studies is high than you have in your background knowledge about the negative affects of using ST. More importantly: health science isn't physics or biology. It's not like anything is set in stone once it is put forth. Example: remember how the egg has gone from the perfect food to a horrible source of cholesterol and back to a perfect food? Science that has to do with how the human body interacts with its environment and things it ingests is very *fluid* and ill-understood.
So, even if ST could be shown to be harmless, you still have overwhelming reasons to avoid using it! In fact, the authors of that page say as much: you should avoid smokeless tobacco *unless* it is being used as a way to quit smoking.
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This is a very inappropriate post in the wrong section of this website; nicotine is a waste of time, money, and overall bad for your health, period. I don't need an expert to tell me that, I've experienced it for the last ten years. I always justified my use as the "better alternative to smoking" and I was just fooling myself.
So who are you Mister, and are you ready to quit smokeless tobacco?
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In addition to the above comments, beware of who is sponsoring scientific research. All too often the conclusion supports a view that the sponsor has an economic interest. I first saw this article several years ago. When I dug into it I found that the pipeline of $ ended up with a big tobacco source.
The real truth is is expressed in the deaths and health issues experience by users and former users.
Don't let purchased "science" influence your choices.
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Hey Mister, you POS...
Don't stain this house with your BS spam.
http://www.tobaccotactics.org/index.php/Carl_V_Phillips (http://www.tobaccotactics.org/index.php/Carl_V_Phillips)
I read your link, please read mine.
This guy is paid by big tobacco as an "expert".
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Hey Mister, you POS...
Don't stain this house with your BS spam.
http://www.tobaccotactics.org/index.php/Carl_V_Phillips (http://www.tobaccotactics.org/index.php/Carl_V_Phillips)
I read your link, please read mine.
This guy is paid by big tobacco as an "expert".
I'm guessing this idiot believes everything he reads. The rest of the "sources" on that dipshit site are basically e-cigarette store owners and active addicts who've gone to great extents to justify continuing to use their drug of choice.
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To follow up...
Here's some info about the study's other author Brad Rodu
http://www.tobaccotactics.org/index.php/Brad_Rodu (http://www.tobaccotactics.org/index.php/Brad_Rodu)
"Between 2000 and 2009, Rodu worked with tobacco company RJ Reynolds assisting promoting industry positions on harm reduction."
"Before moving to Louisville, Rodu was supported in part by an unrestricted gift from the United States Smokeless Tobacco Company to the Tobacco Research Fund of the University of Alabama at Birmingham."
"Rodu's research is supported by unrestricted grants from tobacco manufacturers to the University of Louisville and by the Kentucky Research Challenge Trust Fund."
Let's just say that there isn't an scientific evidence linking smokeless with all the shit we're trying not to get. Hell, I'll even concede that fact for the sake of my response.
I know, beyond a shadow of a doubt, what smokeless tobacco did to ME. I know how my body reacted when I was on it, and I know how my body reacted when I quit it. It damn near killed me. If not in a literal sense, then in an emotional and figurative sense.
If you're asking for my personal opinion, I think there probably is some merit in "harm reduction" when you are comparing smoking to smokeless. But while suggesting that smokeless is safer than smoking is technically an accurate statement, it's also technically accurate to say that jumping off a 6 story building is safer than jumping off a 12 story building.
I'll end there. Happy to clarify if need be.
Chewie
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Read this. (http://forum.killthecan.org/topic/1010002/11/?x=90#new)
Then tell me there is no harm in nicotine.
Doosh.
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Someone once asked me what the chances of getting cancer from chewing tobacco was, and I replied that it didnÂ’t matter what the chances are if you are the one who gets it. You never know if it will be you.
Tobacco harm reduction means that you serve the master. He just don't beat you so hard.
I enjoy being free. Cancer avoidance is secondary. All I know is that nicotine in any form harms you. It changes you. I remember when I hid it from my wife for a month and she commented a few times about how my "smell" changed (even though I never chewed around her). I know that making a leap from one vehicle to another happens often and that the tobacco companies have known for 20-30 years that the people that are not going to quit tobacco are dual users and that they began marketing to create more dual users. I know that I've never regretted quitting once even though I have gone through some very rough times.
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Serious question.....do you remember to play with big tobacco's balls when you have their cock in your mouth or do you just focus on the guy making a back door delivery while you perform your blowjob routine.....my guess would be that their semen tastes like skoal..
Oh I almost forgot......
Go fuck yourself
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I've read all that stuff before. It's fairly narrow science. Yes, I believe dipping is "slightly less awful" than smoking.
That's what I used to tell myself when I was still sucking on the worm dirt. Kinda justified it to myself. Like an addict.
It's certainly easier than nutting up, being a man, and quitting.
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This is a very inappropriate post in the wrong section of this website; nicotine is a waste of time, money, and overall bad for your health, period. I don't need an expert to tell me that, I've experienced it for the last ten years. I always justified my use as the "better alternative to smoking" and I was just fooling myself.
So who are you Mister, and are you ready to quit smokeless tobacco?
I am going to echo this, so what is your goal Mister? Are you just trying to justify using? Make yourself feel better? Or do you get paid by big tobacco?
The price of admission here is roll call, quitting = no chew and nicotine...
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You here to quit or blow sunshine up everyone's ass? This is a 100% Nicotine free site...
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This is just the sort of thing that I needed to keep dipping. Just a cunt hair of a doubt, no matter how rancid and shit-stained. Now that my head is clear, I know it's a complete crock of shit.
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Here's an idea:
Quit and post a promise not to use nicotine
OR
Get the fuck out
Choice is yours.