KillTheCan.org Accountability Forum
Community => Introductions => Topic started by: david.m on July 23, 2014, 12:49:00 PM
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Introductions...
My name is David. I quit on Sunday, July 20 at 1:55pm. I looked at the clock as I took out my lipty and thought... "mark it."
I peaked (sunk) at 3-4 cans per week before the quit. One can could usually last me 2 days. Usually.
Skoal Mint Long Cut.
Started with baseball. Then for focus while working. Then for calming nerves. Then just because I was awake.
I had smoked cigarettes for 10 years - before quitting that on August 5, 2012. And now this is the last to go.
I'm quitting for my family - and for my sense of life's purpose. Â I don't want to burden my family with a struggle that could've been avoided if I had just been more disciplined - and I don't want to "go out" as a result of some addiction that beat me. Â
I hate the enslaving power of nicotine. I look forward to being free from it.
I'm on Day 3 right now (it's actually coming up on 72 hours right now). It's a struggle. It's painful. Etc. Etc. But I'm really glad I found this site. It's been extremely helpful so far. And I hope to be a help to others when I'm on the other side.
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Great choice to quit David! Glad you found KTC. Read everything here. Start with the welcome center and keep reading. All the knowledge you need is right here. Learn the KTC quit plan and live it. The plan works. PM me if you have any questions or need a #. You can do this!
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This site will save your life. That is a side benefit.... Because it will also help you get your life back. One day at a time you are regaining a freedom that you don't even know you lost. Life is so much better without the shackles of nicotine around your ankles. You are really going to love the new you. One day at a time.
Welcome aboard.
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This is real simple David, follow the KTC plan and you will not and cannot fail. Seems silly right, but its true. Post roll promising to not use nicotine for 24 hours. Wake up and repeat. If you are a man of your word then the system will never fail you. If my dumb ass can do this, you certainly can. Welcome to the Asylum and listen to the advice you get here.
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Day 4.
Thank you to all the supporters and fellow-quitters who have helped me get this far. It's been clutch.
It's so pathetic to me - to see myself excited about having not done something for (only) 3 days in a row - and thanking people who I couldn't have done it without. It just magnifies how powerful the nicotine addiction is.
"They" say that the nicotine is out of your body in 72 hours, but I'm still feeling that skin crawling, blood boiling, painful craving. Could just be psychological. But feels physical.
Definitely in the "fog" I've read about. I was 100% unproductive yesterday. Didn't get to work until 11am; sat in my office and poured over KTC site for 2 hours. Then I watched 4 hours of TV. I just can't get my mind around anything. Every time I think of working - especially the research/study, writing, design parts (anything that involves me being by myself and having to focus on a task) - my mouth starts watering and the crave rises up. Ugh!
[I'm going to use this thread as a log of my quit. Really, for my own sake - to track my progress and keep me accountable. But I also welcome those who can relate to chime in - and hopefully, as my journey continues, my observations will help others - as I have also been helped.]
Ok. Gotta go to work. There's TV to watch.
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Day 4.
Thank you to all the supporters and fellow-quitters who have helped me get this far. It's been clutch.
It's so pathetic to me - to see myself excited about having not done something for (only) 3 days in a row - and thanking people who I couldn't have done it without. It just magnifies how powerful the nicotine addiction is.
"They" say that the nicotine is out of your body in 72 hours, but I'm still feeling that skin crawling, blood boiling, painful craving. Could just be psychological. But feels physical.
Definitely in the "fog" I've read about. I was 100% unproductive yesterday. Didn't get to work until 11am; sat in my office and poured over KTC site for 2 hours. Then I watched 4 hours of TV. I just can't get my mind around anything. Every time I think of working - especially the research/study, writing, design parts (anything that involves me being by myself and having to focus on a task) - my mouth starts watering and the crave rises up. Ugh!
[I'm going to use this thread as a log of my quit. Really, for my own sake - to track my progress and keep me accountable. But I also welcome those who can relate to chime in - and hopefully, as my journey continues, my observations will help others - as I have also been helped.]
Ok. Gotta go to work. There's TV to watch.
David,
You will feel that craving sensation for longer than the 72 hours. It actually got worse for me after the 72 hours. When those cravings come find a physical activity to do. I did burpees or pushups no matter where I was when I got them (store, work, home, anywhere). Also drinks lots of water, if you can manage to pass a restroom and not have to piss...drink more.
The mental side is the toughest aspect as it take time for your brain to rewire itself. This is a lifestyle change like losing weight. Sure anyone can lose weight within a dedicated timeframe if the try but keeping it off is where the dedication comes in.
If you have not yet read the Kern story or the Sean Marsee story I recommend them. Also there is a Spousal support section that is great for family support and education. You need family support but quit for you and let them enjoy more years with a dad and husband.
If you have trouble navigating anything of or need a quitter to lean on send me a PM, I am here and willing to be a pillar in quit with you.
P
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Hang tough David, Day 4 can be rough as well, but I promise it will get better. Don't worry about tomorrow, just focus on today.
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Hang tough David, Day 4 can be rough as well, but I promise it will get better. Don't worry about tomorrow, just focus on today.
Days 5-15 were no picnic for me...
Welcome aboard, David. You've made a good choice.
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Physically the poison is out of your system after about 72 hours true, but now the mind games... It will be a roller coaster ride: good days, bad days, repeat. It will be like that for a while, but it will pass. You keep QLF minute to minute if need be; keep fighting, keep pushing, and you will be free.
You will see the term "embrace the suck" around here if you haven't already. The suck means you are winning! It is the nic bitches desperate attempts to get you to cave (ok it's really just your brain chemistry recovering from the poison hijacking your dopamine receptors but I like to personify the enemy for targeting the rage). Once I would embrace the suck it would generally go away for a while. Read some intro threads from the start and you will see some common times when people get into funks. Recognizing them for what they are is key.
You have made it through 3 of the toughest days you will ever have so you sure as hell can make it through today. Stay close to KTC and start getting your plan together. Make sure you have lots of #s and be ready to use them. Sometimes we all need a punch in the junk. PM me or any of the above bad ass quitters if you need help or digits.
You got this! You are killing it!
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Day 4.
Thank you to all the supporters and fellow-quitters who have helped me get this far. It's been clutch.
It's so pathetic to me - to see myself excited about having not done something for (only) 3 days in a row - and thanking people who I couldn't have done it without. It just magnifies how powerful the nicotine addiction is.
"They" say that the nicotine is out of your body in 72 hours, but I'm still feeling that skin crawling, blood boiling, painful craving. Could just be psychological. But feels physical.
Definitely in the "fog" I've read about. I was 100% unproductive yesterday. Didn't get to work until 11am; sat in my office and poured over KTC site for 2 hours. Then I watched 4 hours of TV. I just can't get my mind around anything. Every time I think of working - especially the research/study, writing, design parts (anything that involves me being by myself and having to focus on a task) - my mouth starts watering and the crave rises up. Ugh!
[I'm going to use this thread as a log of my quit. Really, for my own sake - to track my progress and keep me accountable. But I also welcome those who can relate to chime in - and hopefully, as my journey continues, my observations will help others - as I have also been helped.]
Ok. Gotta go to work. There's TV to watch.
David,
I understand about the work issues. I'm rolling through day 8 and it really is the first time since day 1 that I've felt like doing anything. However, I did do something that made the work part a litle easier. If you've got it, take a couple of days vacation. I bailed out yesterday and today. Got a decent nights sleep, played with the kids, took a quick trail walk, whatever I had to do to keep my mind occupied. While it didn't completely squash the urges, it did help with my frame of mind. Just keep pushing brother.
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Day 5.
Finding my most difficult crave times are the daylight hours right now. Nighttime is strangely mild.
Went out to a show with my family last night and never once felt a crave for it. The only time I even thought about it was when I noticed that I wasn't feeling the pain of withdrawal - for first time in 4 days. It was great.
But the pain came back this morning. Woke up angry. Not at anyone; nothing had happened yet. Just felt it. Anger.
Went to the gym. Been drinking lots of water. Took the day off. Unofficially. Again.
That all helps, but I still feel the burning. Every muscle constantly tensed against it.
It's fine. It's better than it was. Starting to really (really) believe I will do this.
So glad for the quit group I'm in. They helped me thru a couple rough spots yesterday via PM chat. Cool guys (and girl). They get it. KTC is a great find.
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Day 5.
Finding my most difficult crave times are the daylight hours right now. Nighttime is strangely mild.
Went out to a show with my family last night and never once felt a crave for it. The only time I even thought about it was when I noticed that I wasn't feeling the pain of withdrawal - for first time in 4 days. It was great.
But the pain came back this morning. Woke up angry. Not at anyone; nothing had happened yet. Just felt it. Anger.
Went to the gym. Been drinking lots of water. Took the day off. Unofficially. Again.
That all helps, but I still feel the burning. Every muscle constantly tensed against it.
It's fine. It's better than it was. Starting to really (really) believe I will do this.
So glad for the quit group I'm in. They helped me thru a couple rough spots yesterday via PM chat. Cool guys (and girl). They get it. KTC is a great find.
You are healing after years of poisoning yourself. Soon the good days will out number the bad ones. 5 days quit is bad ass David!
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Day 5.
Finding my most difficult crave times are the daylight hours right now. Nighttime is strangely mild.
Went out to a show with my family last night and never once felt a crave for it. The only time I even thought about it was when I noticed that I wasn't feeling the pain of withdrawal - for first time in 4 days. It was great.
But the pain came back this morning. Woke up angry. Not at anyone; nothing had happened yet. Just felt it. Anger.
Went to the gym. Been drinking lots of water. Took the day off. Unofficially. Again.
That all helps, but I still feel the burning. Every muscle constantly tensed against it.
It's fine. It's better than it was. Starting to really (really) believe I will do this.
So glad for the quit group I'm in. They helped me thru a couple rough spots yesterday via PM chat. Cool guys (and girl). They get it. KTC is a great find.
You are healing after years of poisoning yourself. Soon the good days will out number the bad ones. 5 days quit is bad ass David!
Been there David. Hang in there my guess is this time next Friday you won't feel like you do now. I find the hardest part about quitting isn't finding the resolve to quit....you have that already. It's once you make the decision and the switch turns on, your craves don't go away, and you have to keep on battling. It fucking sucks, but it's totally worth it. Keep grinding brutha I quit with you today.
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Day 5.
Finding my most difficult crave times are the daylight hours right now. Nighttime is strangely mild.
Went out to a show with my family last night and never once felt a crave for it. The only time I even thought about it was when I noticed that I wasn't feeling the pain of withdrawal - for first time in 4 days. It was great.
But the pain came back this morning. Woke up angry. Not at anyone; nothing had happened yet. Just felt it. Anger.
Went to the gym. Been drinking lots of water. Took the day off. Unofficially. Again.
That all helps, but I still feel the burning. Every muscle constantly tensed against it.
It's fine. It's better than it was. Starting to really (really) believe I will do this.
So glad for the quit group I'm in. They helped me thru a couple rough spots yesterday via PM chat. Cool guys (and girl). They get it. KTC is a great find.
You are healing after years of poisoning yourself. Soon the good days will out number the bad ones. 5 days quit is bad ass David!
Been there David. Hang in there my guess is this time next Friday you won't feel like you do now. I find the hardest part about quitting isn't finding the resolve to quit....you have that already. It's once you make the decision and the switch turns on, your craves don't go away, and you have to keep on battling. It fucking sucks, but it's totally worth it. Keep grinding brutha I quit with you today.
You are describing the typical quit. Know this, there is an other side and it is wonderful. Keep it up.
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Day 5.
Finding my most difficult crave times are the daylight hours right now. Nighttime is strangely mild.
Went out to a show with my family last night and never once felt a crave for it. The only time I even thought about it was when I noticed that I wasn't feeling the pain of withdrawal - for first time in 4 days. It was great.
But the pain came back this morning. Woke up angry. Not at anyone; nothing had happened yet. Just felt it. Anger.
Went to the gym. Been drinking lots of water. Took the day off. Unofficially. Again.
That all helps, but I still feel the burning. Every muscle constantly tensed against it.
It's fine. It's better than it was. Starting to really (really) believe I will do this.
So glad for the quit group I'm in. They helped me thru a couple rough spots yesterday via PM chat. Cool guys (and girl). They get it. KTC is a great find.
You are healing after years of poisoning yourself. Soon the good days will out number the bad ones. 5 days quit is bad ass David!
Been there David. Hang in there my guess is this time next Friday you won't feel like you do now. I find the hardest part about quitting isn't finding the resolve to quit....you have that already. It's once you make the decision and the switch turns on, your craves don't go away, and you have to keep on battling. It fucking sucks, but it's totally worth it. Keep grinding brutha I quit with you today.
You are describing the typical quit. Know this, there is an other side and it is wonderful. Keep it up.
Keep at it today! Whatever it takes to stay quit! I'm with you all day!
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Mark it 8, dude.
Insomnia stage has set in. Up since 3:30 this morning. It was 4:15 on Sat. and 5:15 on Sun. I'm exhausted.
Fog starting to clear. Cravings less frequent, now coming at specific times: when feeling stressed or angry.
Chewed a lot of seeds over the weekend. They're a good diversion. Need to find saltless tho. Lip is torn up. Last week, i ordered "the fake stuff" samples from a couple different companies - but I'm thinking I'll toss them when they arrive. I feel like I'd be better off not toying around with a less-satisfying imitation that will only make me want the real thing more. Seeds are a better alternative for me because while it's an oral-fixation mechanism, it's a completely different substance and action. I don't want seeds to become a replacement for dip. Not the way I used dip all day long. Need to re-learn how to work/study/write without anything in my mouth. But seeds will be great for baseball games, times of stress or boredom.
Told the kids about my quit. Talked about the addiction of nicotine, the reason I'm quitting, the struggle that it is. Not much of a reaction from them. Not sure what I expected. Haha. But it was a good step. Admittedly, I had been delaying that conversation because I wasn't sure I was going to be able to get through the first week. By telling them, it was (a.) like celebrating a checkpoint reached (1:55pm yesterday marked one complete week) as well as (b.) an added level of accountability for the journey ahead: now that I've told my kids, I can't give up.
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Mark it 8, dude.
Insomnia stage has set in. Up since 3:30 this morning. It was 4:15 on Sat. and 5:15 on Sun. I'm exhausted.
Fog starting to clear. Cravings less frequent, now coming at specific times: when feeling stressed or angry.
Chewed a lot of seeds over the weekend. They're a good diversion. Need to find saltless tho. Lip is torn up. Last week, i ordered "the fake stuff" samples from a couple different companies - but I'm thinking I'll toss them when they arrive. I feel like I'd be better off not toying around with a less-satisfying imitation that will only make me want the real thing more. Seeds are a better alternative for me because while it's an oral-fixation mechanism, it's a completely different substance and action. I don't want seeds to become a replacement for dip. Not the way I used dip all day long. Need to re-learn how to work/study/write without anything in my mouth. But seeds will be great for baseball games, times of stress or boredom.
Told the kids about my quit. Talked about the addiction of nicotine, the reason I'm quitting, the struggle that it is. Not much of a reaction from them. Not sure what I expected. Haha. But it was a good step. Admittedly, I had been delaying that conversation because I wasn't sure I was going to be able to get through the first week. By telling them, it was (a.) like celebrating a checkpoint reached (1:55pm yesterday marked one complete week) as well as (b.) an added level of accountability for the journey ahead: now that I've told my kids, I can't give up.
Good stuff here! Love the added accountability of telling your kids!
Hell yes celebrate week 1 of quit! You are a bad ass.
Who needs sleep anyway.
I used the fake stuff hard the first week, and often (3-4 times a day) weeks 2-4, and then I switched mostly to seeds and only had the fake stuff a few more times. I still keep my stash around though just in case. I like to have a can of the fake dip with me if I go tailgating for a Bills game or will be drinking with buddies who still dip. I haven't had a fake dip in a long time, but it's good to be prepared. Toss the fake if you want, but it won't hurt to have in case of emergency.
David, you are winning, and I will be quit with you all day.
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Mark it 8, dude.
Insomnia stage has set in. Up since 3:30 this morning. It was 4:15 on Sat. and 5:15 on Sun. I'm exhausted.
Fog starting to clear. Cravings less frequent, now coming at specific times: when feeling stressed or angry.
Chewed a lot of seeds over the weekend. They're a good diversion. Need to find saltless tho. Lip is torn up. Last week, i ordered "the fake stuff" samples from a couple different companies - but I'm thinking I'll toss them when they arrive. I feel like I'd be better off not toying around with a less-satisfying imitation that will only make me want the real thing more. Seeds are a better alternative for me because while it's an oral-fixation mechanism, it's a completely different substance and action. I don't want seeds to become a replacement for dip. Not the way I used dip all day long. Need to re-learn how to work/study/write without anything in my mouth. But seeds will be great for baseball games, times of stress or boredom.
Told the kids about my quit. Talked about the addiction of nicotine, the reason I'm quitting, the struggle that it is. Not much of a reaction from them. Not sure what I expected. Haha. But it was a good step. Admittedly, I had been delaying that conversation because I wasn't sure I was going to be able to get through the first week. By telling them, it was (a.) like celebrating a checkpoint reached (1:55pm yesterday marked one complete week) as well as (b.) an added level of accountability for the journey ahead: now that I've told my kids, I can't give up.
Good stuff here! Love the added accountability of telling your kids!
Hell yes celebrate week 1 of quit! You are a bad ass.
Who needs sleep anyway.
I used the fake stuff hard the first week, and often (3-4 times a day) weeks 2-4, and then I switched mostly to seeds and only had the fake stuff a few more times. I still keep my stash around though just in case. I like to have a can of the fake dip with me if I go tailgating for a Bills game or will be drinking with buddies who still dip. I haven't had a fake dip in a long time, but it's good to be prepared. Toss the fake if you want, but it won't hurt to have in case of emergency.
David, you are winning, and I will be quit with you all day.
Love your idea of using this as a journal. I'm going to do the same thing with mine. Glad you told your kids. I haven't told mine yet. My kids are older, 20 22, and I have let them down many times before with failed "quits" and I certainly don't want to do it again. The other side of this coin is my fear that I haven't told them because my quit is not as solid as I'd like to think it is. I guess I'll head to the office and like you, take another "unofficial" day off and figure out what's keeping me from telling my kids.
Love quitting with you brother!
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Mark it 8, dude.
I told that fuckin Kraut a thousand times, I don't roll on Shabbos!
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Day 9.
I have ridden the Fog to it's limit. I absolutely have to work (and be productive!) today.
Anxiety came on as soon as I reached the office. I now realize that this has been the regular feeling at the office for some time now. But I've been "treating" it with nicotine asap each morning. Once the nic-rush assuages the anxiety, I buckle down and work with focus. That's been my routine. 9 to 5. (That's why the daylight hours are my peak craving times.) So.... it has me thinking that nicotine may not be my only problem to deal with here. Finding a new way to mask the anxiety isn't the answer. It may be a change of job/location - or at least perspective - that's necessary. BUT I'm not going to make any decisions while in these first stages of the Quit. Who knows what crazy things I'm thinking and feeling because of the mind/body's panic!? Stupid mind and body. Nicotine is for idiots. Relearn!!!
Bottom line: today is truly a page turning day for me and my work. I must work. I must focus. I must produce. And I WILL do it without Nicki (I prefer to anthropomorphize nicotine as an evil female vixen).
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Day 9.
I have ridden the Fog to it's limit. I absolutely have to work (and be productive!) today.
Anxiety came on as soon as I reached the office. I now realize that this has been the regular feeling at the office for some time now. But I've been "treating" it with nicotine asap each morning. Once the nic-rush assuages the anxiety, I buckle down and work with focus. That's been my routine. 9 to 5. (That's why the daylight hours are my peak craving times.) So.... it has me thinking that nicotine may not be my only problem to deal with here. Finding a new way to mask the anxiety isn't the answer. It may be a change of job/location - or at least perspective - that's necessary. BUT I'm not going to make any decisions while in these first stages of the Quit. Who knows what crazy things I'm thinking and feeling because of the mind/body's panic!? Stupid mind and body. Nicotine is for idiots. Relearn!!!
Bottom line: today is truly a page turning day for me and my work. I must work. I must focus. I must produce. And I WILL do it without Nicki (I prefer to anthropomorphize nicotine as an evil female vixen).
You can do this man. Some days are better than others.
Your eating may also be affecting how foggy you feel. (http://www.killthecan.org/nutrition-when-quitting-smokeless-tobacco-dip-chew/)
Concentrate on protein (especially in the mornings) and up your vitamin c intake. Your body is going through a lot right now. Help it along.
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Mark it 8, dude.
I told that fuckin Kraut a thousand times, I don't roll on Shabbos!
That rug really tied the room together. (One of the greatest and most underrated movies of all time)
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Day 9.
I have ridden the Fog to it's limit. I absolutely have to work (and be productive!) today.
Anxiety came on as soon as I reached the office. I now realize that this has been the regular feeling at the office for some time now. But I've been "treating" it with nicotine asap each morning. Once the nic-rush assuages the anxiety, I buckle down and work with focus. That's been my routine. 9 to 5. (That's why the daylight hours are my peak craving times.) So.... it has me thinking that nicotine may not be my only problem to deal with here. Finding a new way to mask the anxiety isn't the answer. It may be a change of job/location - or at least perspective - that's necessary. BUT I'm not going to make any decisions while in these first stages of the Quit. Who knows what crazy things I'm thinking and feeling because of the mind/body's panic!? Stupid mind and body. Nicotine is for idiots. Relearn!!!
Bottom line: today is truly a page turning day for me and my work. I must work. I must focus. I must produce. And I WILL do it without Nicki (I prefer to anthropomorphize nicotine as an evil female vixen).
I like the thought process here. We always say a problem + nicotine = 2 problems. Your job is going to cause you anxiety regardless of dip or no, so today you decide to remain quit, bravo to you.
As far as any major decisions, I'd wait at least until you have 100 days behind you, let your body heal.
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Day 9.
I have ridden the Fog to it's limit. I absolutely have to work (and be productive!) today.
Anxiety came on as soon as I reached the office. I now realize that this has been the regular feeling at the office for some time now. But I've been "treating" it with nicotine asap each morning. Once the nic-rush assuages the anxiety, I buckle down and work with focus. That's been my routine. 9 to 5. (That's why the daylight hours are my peak craving times.) So.... it has me thinking that nicotine may not be my only problem to deal with here. Finding a new way to mask the anxiety isn't the answer. It may be a change of job/location - or at least perspective - that's necessary. BUT I'm not going to make any decisions while in these first stages of the Quit. Who knows what crazy things I'm thinking and feeling because of the mind/body's panic!? Stupid mind and body. Nicotine is for idiots. Relearn!!!
Bottom line: today is truly a page turning day for me and my work. I must work. I must focus. I must produce. And I WILL do it without Nicki (I prefer to anthropomorphize nicotine as an evil female vixen).
You can do this man. Some days are better than others.
Your eating may also be affecting how foggy you feel. (http://www.killthecan.org/nutrition-when-quitting-smokeless-tobacco-dip-chew/)
Concentrate on protein (especially in the mornings) and up your vitamin c intake. Your body is going through a lot right now. Help it along.
Thanks for that link and article. Passed it on to my wife. She is very into healing/health thru nutrition.
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Day 10.
Double digits! I've only been here twice before in the last 7 years. Neither time was I serious about quitting. Once, was a 10-day fast. I was only too happy for that fast to end. The other time - 19 days - was launched by a 2 week vacation on which I arbitrarily decided I was not going to use any tobacco (was also a smoker at the time). But 5 days after vacation ended I arbitrarily decided I'd go buy myself a pack and a can. Moron.
But those days are behind me. I will never smoke or dip again. Not once. Not ever.
Cravings were very mild all day. Was able to focus at work. It was good. Granted, my mouth is raw from non-stop seed chewing - but it's a huge improvement.
It wasn't until tonight that I started to feel it. It was around 9pm (not a usual peak-craving time). I had just finished teaching a 90 minute class, so I was drained - physically and mentally. I was talking with people after the class and not paying attention to them at all; totally zoned out, thinking, "man, I want a dip right now!" Interesting. I knew times of stress, anger, and impatience were triggers for me to go to the dip - i.e., times when I felt like I needed to be "evened out". I didn't realize I also went to it when I needed to be "picked up". Anyway, I opted for a grilled-cheese sandwich and a White Russian instead. Better!
Point is - I'm finding this stage of the Quit very interesting. I feel like I'm learning a lot about myself - my patterns - my peeves - my weak spots - my real goals. Removing nicotine has been like removing a veil from my eyes. I thought I was relying on nicotine to help me focus, but I think it was only blurring things out. I'm seeing life clearer.
I don't remember having any of these observations either of the previous 2 times I reached 10 days. But then again, in those times, I was still enslaved to it because I had not denounced it. This time is different. I am done!
Then, my mind was chained to what I was missing. Now, my mind is set on what I am gaining.
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Day 10.
Double digits! I've only been here twice before in the last 7 years. Neither time was I serious about quitting. Once, was a 10-day fast. I was only too happy for that fast to end. The other time - 19 days - was launched by a 2 week vacation on which I arbitrarily decided I was not going to use any tobacco (was also a smoker at the time). But 5 days after vacation ended I arbitrarily decided I'd go buy myself a pack and a can. Moron.
But those days are behind me. I will never smoke or dip again. Not once. Not ever.
Cravings were very mild all day. Was able to focus at work. It was good. Granted, my mouth is raw from non-stop seed chewing - but it's a huge improvement.
It wasn't until tonight that I started to feel it. It was around 9pm (not a usual peak-craving time). I had just finished teaching a 90 minute class, so I was drained - physically and mentally. I was talking with people after the class and not paying attention to them at all; totally zoned out, thinking, "man, I want a dip right now!" Interesting. I knew times of stress, anger, and impatience were triggers for me to go to the dip - i.e., times when I felt like I needed to be "evened out". I didn't realize I also went to it when I needed to be "picked up". Anyway, I opted for a grilled-cheese sandwich and a White Russian instead. Better!
Point is - I'm finding this stage of the Quit very interesting. I feel like I'm learning a lot about myself - my patterns - my peeves - my weak spots - my real goals. Removing nicotine has been like removing a veil from my eyes. I thought I was relying on nicotine to help me focus, but I think it was only blurring things out. I'm seeing life clearer.
I don't remember having any of these observations either of the previous 2 times I reached 10 days. But then again, in those times, I was still enslaved to it because I had not denounced it. This time is different. I am done!
Then, my mind was chained to what I was missing. Now, my mind is set on what I am gaining.
Awesome! You are getting it! I too felt I was done forever with the poison at the start of my quit, just make sure you stay grounded in ODAAT. Look around you. Gaze upon the world as a free man for the first time in a long time! Everything is better without the poison! QLF with you all day.
-
Day 12.
Feeling great. I still feel the crave here and there, of course. But the fear of, "I can't do this!" is gone (or at least dying).
Now, I know I can - because I have.
I don't dip. That's the bottom line. Just like I don't smoke. And I don't shoot heroin. And I don't kill my enemies. These are things I just don't do. No matter how angry or stressed out or anxious I feel. I may binge eat. I may have a beer. I may punch a wall. (I may still need to find more productive ways to deal, haha) But I don't dip. Others may, but I don't.
It was always fear that kept me from stepping into the darkness of detox. Fear of facing life without nicotine. Fear of failing at any attempt to quit. Fear that this crave is going to be the one to make me cave. But now that fear has been replaced.
Now, it's a matter of maintaining and owning my quit.
I'm not naive about it. ODAAT. I've been seeing some of the 30-day and 70-day guys expressing a kind of revived wave of craving. And I've read how old timers emphasize, "you're always an addict." That's so helpful to know. I think that's one of the greatest aspects of this program: having other quitters tell you... yep, that's normal... you're going to feel this next... etc. It's paternal. But more, it's partnership.
For that reason...
a.) I am committing to stay connected to this group for the long haul - because I value others' experience.
b.) I am committing to help other newbies quit - because the journey of my Quit is truly most valuable when it's used for others' good.
-
Day 12.
Feeling great. I still feel the crave here and there, of course. But the fear of, "I can't do this!" is gone (or at least dying).
Now, I know I can - because I have.
I don't dip. That's the bottom line. Just like I don't smoke. And I don't shoot heroin. And I don't kill my enemies. These are things I just don't do. No matter how angry or stressed out or anxious I feel. I may binge eat. I may have a beer. I may punch a wall. (I may still need to find more productive ways to deal, haha) But I don't dip. Others may, but I don't.
It was always fear that kept me from stepping into the darkness of detox. Fear of facing life without nicotine. Fear of failing at any attempt to quit. Fear that this crave is going to be the one to make me cave. But now that fear has been replaced.
Now, it's a matter of maintaining and owning my quit.
I'm not naive about it. ODAAT. I've been seeing some of the 30-day and 70-day guys expressing a kind of revived wave of craving. And I've read how old timers emphasize, "you're always an addict." That's so helpful to know. I think that's one of the greatest aspects of this program: having other quitters tell you... yep, that's normal... you're going to feel this next... etc. It's paternal. But more, it's partnership.
For that reason...
a.) I am committing to stay connected to this group for the long haul - because I value others' experience.
b.) I am committing to help other newbies quit - because the journey of my Quit is truly most valuable when it's used for others' good.
I quit with you all damn day!
-
Day 14.
Feeling ... I don't know... a relapse? of cravings. Days 10-12 were much easier than days 13 14 have been. As if my mind is remembering that blood-boiling/skin-crawling feeling and telling my body about it.
Found notes I made 2 years ago when I was trying to quit:
11.02.12.
It's been 426 hours. (17 days, 18 hours)
Yesterday and today, having real struggle. It was getting better - but now craving seems to be making a revival?
I really, really don't want to experience the pain of those first 100 hours again.
But I so badly want to "reward" myself with a 1-can binge.
Of course (now) I see the lie of that last line.... that caving is in any way a "reward".
But then I didn't. That's the last entry on that topic. I must've caved soon after.
The REAL difference between then and now... is that I have KTC and the Titans to help me and keep me accountable.
Then... I was able to turn inward, rationalize, I was my own accountability - thus my worst enemy.
Now... I have a group of guys (and one girl) who will keep me in check - and denounce such lies I may tell myself.
-
Day 15.
Monday. (that word alone says plenty)
Feeling full of energy. More energy than I'm used to having. The kind that makes it hard to sit still - much less focus. Every muscle tensed up. The kind that I would normally suppress with nicotine. Now, I just have to force myself to work through it. A worthy battle.
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Day 15.
Monday. (that word alone says plenty)
Feeling full of energy. More energy than I'm used to having. The kind that makes it hard to sit still - much less focus. Every muscle tensed up. The kind that I would normally suppress with nicotine. Now, I just have to force myself to work through it. A worthy battle.
Sounds like someone is healing! Love it, fight the good fight man!
-
Day 15.
Monday. (that word alone says plenty)
Feeling full of energy. More energy than I'm used to having. The kind that makes it hard to sit still - much less focus. Every muscle tensed up. The kind that I would normally suppress with nicotine. Now, I just have to force myself to work through it. A worthy battle.
I fight that battle with you David. Thanks for making my QUIT stronger today, and everyday!
ODAAT
Tom
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Day 14.
Feeling ... I don't know... a relapse? of cravings. Days 10-12 were much easier than days 13 14 have been. As if my mind is remembering that blood-boiling/skin-crawling feeling and telling my body about it.
Found notes I made 2 years ago when I was trying to quit:
11.02.12.
It's been 426 hours. (17 days, 18 hours)
Yesterday and today, having real struggle. It was getting better - but now craving seems to be making a revival?
I really, really don't want to experience the pain of those first 100 hours again.
But I so badly want to "reward" myself with a 1-can binge.
Of course (now) I see the lie of that last line.... that caving is in any way a "reward".
But then I didn't. That's the last entry on that topic. I must've caved soon after.
The REAL difference between then and now... is that I have KTC and the Titans to help me and keep me accountable.
Then... I was able to turn inward, rationalize, I was my own accountability - thus my worst enemy.
Now... I have a group of guys (and one girl) who will keep me in check - and denounce such lies I may tell myself.
Following your quit helps me so much! I'm just 3 days behind you but your intro/blog always gives me a heads up of what to expect next. Several times the things you posted were happening to you happened to me a couple of days later but I wasn't blindsided by them because I had an idea of what was coming. So right now I am preparing myself for a revival of cravings during the next couple of days.
Thanks for making my quit stronger!
-
Day 17.
Really tough day. Cravings are particularly strong. They're spaced far apart - but strong when they hit. And different: they're amplified by the fear that this feeling is never going to go away, that this is my life now: periodic waves of pain.
[***WARNING: All you rabid Quit-police, you don't need to light me up for what I'm about to say. It's not what I really think... it's just what I'm thinking. I'm logging the emotions of my quit... not making conclusions.***]
I don't want to live in pain everyday for the rest of my life. Yeah, I might get cancer from dip. But... I might not. I started late; I'm not in the highest risk categories.
I might get heart disease from the nicotine. But... I might not. I'm in fairly good shape. How much longer can I go on being quit - if it doesn't get easier than this?
--
Of course, I immediately see the faulty logic in that! "I might get cancer from dip." "I might get heart disease from nicotine." Isn't that reason enough to endure this mild pain now?! (I'm also visualizing the disgusting picture BigRedDude loves to show everyone. C,mon Red! You've scarred my brain!!!! lol)
Isn't this mild pain merely an inconvenience in comparison?
Perhaps, I need to embrace this pain - and begin to think about it differently.... as something good - even if (especially if) it never goes away.- It is, for one thing, the consequence of my foolishness: the result of my former bad choices and my willful surrender to addiction, in spite of the warnings. (There are warnings on the packs!, on the cans! So stupid.) So.... when I feel the pain, I am reminded: some decisions carry a lifetime of consequence. Use wisdom!
- It is, for another thing, a sign of my ongoing victory over something that is trying to destroy me. Struggling is a sign you haven't given up. The only way to lose this battle is to surrender. So... when I feel the pain, I am encouraged: I haven't given up, laid down, caved in. I'm still standing - in spite of the pain. I AM winning this battle.
No temptation has overtaken you except what is common to mankind. And God is faithful; he will not let you be tempted beyond what you can bear. But when you are tempted, he will also provide a way out so that you can endure it. (1 Corinthians 10:13)
-
Day 17.
Really tough day. Cravings are particularly strong. They're spaced far apart - but strong when they hit. And different: they're amplified by the fear that this feeling is never going to go away, that this is my life now: periodic waves of pain.
[***WARNING: All you rabid Quit-police, you don't need to light me up for what I'm about to say. It's not what I really think... it's just what I'm thinking. I'm logging the emotions of my quit... not making conclusions.***]
I don't want to live in pain everyday for the rest of my life. Yeah, I might get cancer from dip. But... I might not. I started late; I'm not in the highest risk categories.
I might get heart disease from the nicotine. But... I might not. I'm in fairly good shape. How much longer can I go on being quit - if it doesn't get easier than this?
--
Of course, I immediately see the faulty logic in that! "I might get cancer from dip." "I might get heart disease from nicotine." Isn't that reason enough to endure this mild pain now?! (I'm also visualizing the disgusting picture BigRedDude loves to show everyone. C,mon Red! You've scarred my brain!!!! lol)
Isn't this mild pain merely an inconvenience in comparison?
Perhaps, I need to embrace this pain - and begin to think about it differently.... as something good - even if (especially if) it never goes away.- It is, for one thing, the consequence of my foolishness: the result of my former bad choices and my willful surrender to addiction, in spite of the warnings. (There are warnings on the packs!, on the cans! So stupid.) So.... when I feel the pain, I am reminded: some decisions carry a lifetime of consequence. Use wisdom!
- It is, for another thing, a sign of my ongoing victory over something that is trying to destroy me. Struggling is a sign you haven't given up. The only way to lose this battle is to surrender. So... when I feel the pain, I am encouraged: I haven't given up, laid down, caved in. I'm still standing - in spite of the pain. I AM winning this battle.
No temptation has overtaken you except what is common to mankind. And God is faithful; he will not let you be tempted beyond what you can bear. But when you are tempted, he will also provide a way out so that you can endure it. (1 Corinthians 10:13)
I have more pics if you want to see them!! hahahha
The "way out" He provides is our brothers (and sister) in October! Our group freaking rules! Love it man!
I quit all day, every day with you!
-
Day 18.
Had rough day 17, so I started reading speeches from the HOFers and 1,000ers - looking for some encouragement. I was hoping to read stuff like, "the pain is gone... it's only a memory for me now... feeling strong". Instead, it was a lot of "don't let your guard down... the battle continues" stuff. Kind of disappointing.
So I brought it to the Titans last night...- Southpaw: From what I have been told, the pain becomes less frequent. What they mean is that we are addicts and always will be. We must guard from the perception that we are no longer addicts.
- Stevo: Heard it gets easier... But one thing is for sure: we r all one dip away from 100% back in to it.
- Bam: If the pain or the battle were to ever go away completely, you'd forget the struggle, and how much this sucks and one day you'd pop another bit of poison in your mouth forgetting how fucking shitty it is for you and thinking it's no big deal. That's why the battle has to continue.
- Me: I hear what you're saying... "don't forget how much this sucks"... "you're always an addict" ... "one dip away". I definitely agree. It's just alarming to think that the struggle doesn't get easier with time, right?
- Bam: It probably does, but they don't want to make it appear like it goes away. They don't want you to hit the HOF, or the comma and say "I've got this, I'm good".
- Stevo: A lot if the older quitters says it does. Just saw a guy in chat a couple of nights ago, he was coming up on 1000 days and was thinking of leaving the site. Some of the OTQs told him to do what's best for him, others said they stick around to help others. He said he only thinks of dip when he's on the site now.
- Southpaw: I hear ya David. There will be more sunshine and rainbow days down the road than bad ones; we get stronger in the quit as we go along.
I greet Day 18 encouraged. Hope is powerful!
-
Day 18.
Had rough day 17, so I started reading speeches from the HOFers and 1,000ers - looking for some encouragement. I was hoping to read stuff like, "the pain is gone... it's only a memory for me now... feeling strong". Instead, it was a lot of "don't let your guard down... the battle continues" stuff. Kind of disappointing.
So I brought it to the Titans last night...- Southpaw: From what I have been told, the pain becomes less frequent. What they mean is that we are addicts and always will be. We must guard from the perception that we are no longer addicts.
- Stevo: Heard it gets easier... But one thing is for sure: we r all one dip away from 100% back in to it.
- Bam: If the pain or the battle were to ever go away completely, you'd forget the struggle, and how much this sucks and one day you'd pop another bit of poison in your mouth forgetting how fucking shitty it is for you and thinking it's no big deal. That's why the battle has to continue.
- Me: I hear what you're saying... "don't forget how much this sucks"... "you're always an addict" ... "one dip away". I definitely agree. It's just alarming to think that the struggle doesn't get easier with time, right?
- Bam: It probably does, but they don't want to make it appear like it goes away. They don't want you to hit the HOF, or the comma and say "I've got this, I'm good".
- Stevo: A lot if the older quitters says it does. Just saw a guy in chat a couple of nights ago, he was coming up on 1000 days and was thinking of leaving the site. Some of the OTQs told him to do what's best for him, others said they stick around to help others. He said he only thinks of dip when he's on the site now.
- Southpaw: I hear ya David. There will be more sunshine and rainbow days down the road than bad ones; we get stronger in the quit as we go along.
I greet Day 18 encouraged. Hope is powerful!
I'm on day 82 and I'll tell you that if definitely gets easier/better. I'm sitting in my house alone working from home. Do I have the occasional thought about dipping? Yeah, but the main reason is that for YEARS that was my routine when I worked from home, I would dip all day. For me it's all about routine and dipping just isn't part of my routine anymore. The more days I'm quit the more my non dip routine is strengthened. I go about my business and for the most part do all the same things I did pre-quit, but dipping just isn't part of it anymore.
Proud to quit with you TODAY.
Lighty
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A worthy battle indeed! I quit w/ you bro!
-
Day 22
This is the longest I have gone without nicotine in the past 16 years! 21 days and 20 hours. 524 total hours.
The wave of cravings I was feeling last week was compounded by fear that the pain wasn't ever going to let up. But the encouragement I received last week from my quit group and some OTQs - letting me know, "it does get easier" - gave me a huge psychological edge on this Quit. Removing the fear took power away from the cravings. Something switched in my mind. Quitting went from something I'm doing... to something I did. Or, really, something I am. I did quit using nicotine. I am a nicotine quitter. I'm not trying to quit anymore - I'm staying quit, ODAAT.
This weekend was a huge milestone! I chose my quit date as I did because I knew had two Sundays in a row where I didn't have to preach. (Actually, I intentionally scheduled two guests speakers in a row, because I figured I'd need at least two weeks off if I was going to stay quit.) I still had to go into the office, tasks to complete, meetings to run, classes to teach, etc. But I can do all of that in my sleep. Sermon writing (for me) takes massive amounts of time, focus, spiritual energy, and creativity. All previous aborted-quits have been due to the panic of having a sermon to complete but the lack of focus to do it - because of the quit.
So, this Sunday was the first sermon I had to preach since the quit began. (Which might've added to the stress and fear that those day 14-17 cravings were causing me last week.) I did it. It was the first sermon I've written sans nicotine in 8 years! I felt good about it. It wasn't quite as honed as I would've liked, but - based on response and feedback - it was effective. (Which is all the work of God's Spirit - using my best efforts for His purposes; I'm just glad I was able to give him something to work with.)
Accumulated hours and days aside... getting over that hurdle is the furthest I've ever gone in my quit attempts before. It feels great!
-
Day 22
This is the longest I have gone without nicotine in the past 16 years! 21 days and 20 hours. 524 total hours.
The wave of cravings I was feeling last week was compounded by fear that the pain wasn't ever going to let up. But the encouragement I received last week from my quit group and some OTQs - letting me know, "it does get easier" - gave me a huge psychological edge on this Quit. Removing the fear took power away from the cravings. Something switched in my mind. Quitting went from something I'm doing... to something I did. Or, really, something I am. I did quit using nicotine. I am a nicotine quitter. I'm not trying to quit anymore - I'm staying quit, ODAAT.
This weekend was a huge milestone! I chose my quit date as I did because I knew had two Sundays in a row where I didn't have to preach. (Actually, I intentionally scheduled two guests speakers in a row, because I figured I'd need at least two weeks off if I was going to stay quit.) I still had to go into the office, tasks to complete, meetings to run, classes to teach, etc. But I can do all of that in my sleep. Sermon writing (for me) takes massive amounts of time, focus, spiritual energy, and creativity. All previous aborted-quits have been due to the panic of having a sermon to complete but the lack of focus to do it - because of the quit.
So, this Sunday was the first sermon I had to preach since the quit began. (Which might've added to the stress and fear that those day 14-17 cravings were causing me last week.) I did it. It was the first sermon I've written sans nicotine in 8 years! I felt good about it. It wasn't quite as honed as I would've liked, but - based on response and feedback - it was effective. (Which is all the work of God's Spirit - using my best efforts for His purposes; I'm just glad I was able to give him something to work with.)
Accumulated hours and days aside... getting over that hurdle is the furthest I've ever gone in my quit attempts before. It feels great!
I would have really enjoyed that sermon...can you PM it to me?
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Day 22
This is the longest I have gone without nicotine in the past 16 years! 21 days and 20 hours. 524 total hours.
The wave of cravings I was feeling last week was compounded by fear that the pain wasn't ever going to let up. But the encouragement I received last week from my quit group and some OTQs - letting me know, "it does get easier" - gave me a huge psychological edge on this Quit. Removing the fear took power away from the cravings. Something switched in my mind. Quitting went from something I'm doing... to something I did. Or, really, something I am. I did quit using nicotine. I am a nicotine quitter. I'm not trying to quit anymore - I'm staying quit, ODAAT.
This weekend was a huge milestone! I chose my quit date as I did because I knew had two Sundays in a row where I didn't have to preach. (Actually, I intentionally scheduled two guests speakers in a row, because I figured I'd need at least two weeks off if I was going to stay quit.) I still had to go into the office, tasks to complete, meetings to run, classes to teach, etc. But I can do all of that in my sleep. Sermon writing (for me) takes massive amounts of time, focus, spiritual energy, and creativity. All previous aborted-quits have been due to the panic of having a sermon to complete but the lack of focus to do it - because of the quit.
So, this Sunday was the first sermon I had to preach since the quit began. (Which might've added to the stress and fear that those day 14-17 cravings were causing me last week.) I did it. It was the first sermon I've written sans nicotine in 8 years! I felt good about it. It wasn't quite as honed as I would've liked, but - based on response and feedback - it was effective. (Which is all the work of God's Spirit - using my best efforts for His purposes; I'm just glad I was able to give him something to work with.)
Accumulated hours and days aside... getting over that hurdle is the furthest I've ever gone in my quit attempts before. It feels great!
I would have really enjoyed that sermon...can you PM it to me?
Yeah, I'd like to read that too. Congrats on freeing yourself. I imagine you should find some good inspiration from what you are accomplishing.
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Day 24
At 1:55pm today, I will be at 24 days full days (576 hours) of quit.
It takes 10,000 hours of practice to be considered an "master" at something. So that's... 416 days and 18 hours.
Mark it: I will become a Master of Quit on September 27, 2015 at 7:55am.
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Day 25
¼ of the way to the HOF.
Cravings still hitting - but they're less frequent and shorter in length.
Yesterday, two of the times they hit I was in situations I couldn't have dipped anyway. In similar moments (before I quit), I would tell nicotine, "I'll get to you later", yesterday I told her, "I won't want you later."
The freedom is great. The feeling of power over something so powerful is even better. I highly recommend quitting addictions. It's a rush!
-
David, you are on a rollercoaster ride for the next few weeks/months, it will be easy then tough again on and on... That's why we quit ODAAT, but there will come a time where quitting is easy. For me it started somewhere between 2nd and 3rd floor. No cravings no urges no wish whatsoever to ever go back to the poison... You will get there too, just keep adding the days. Fight like your life depends on staying quit. It won't be hellish forever.
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David, you are on a rollercoaster ride for the next few weeks/months, it will be easy then tough again on and on... That's why we quit ODAAT, but there will come a time where quitting is easy. For me it started somewhere between 2nd and 3rd floor. No cravings no urges no wish whatsoever to ever go back to the poison... You will get there too, just keep adding the days. Fight like your life depends on staying quit. It won't be hellish forever.
Matt here is right on.
Enjoy the times when you are feeling good, as we should celebrate the freedom. But use these times to also keep learning about what we need to do when that rollercoaster drops....this up time is when we need to make those connections, reach out to say a word or two to others.
Doing great, just keep it up....
-
Day 26
Some interesting research:
on Nicotine as a dopamine releasing drug, ala heroin and other opiates:
"Nicotine and opiates are very different drugs, but the endpoint, with respect to the control of dopamine signaling, is almost identical. It demonstrates the seriousness of tobacco addiction, equating its grip on the individual to that of heroin. It reinforces the fact that these addictions are very physiological in nature and that breaking away from the habit is certainly more than just mind over matter."- Daniel McGehee, University of Chicago Medical Center."The 10 Hardest Drugs to Kick"
- by Jacqueline Detwiler
The chemical makeup of drugs guarantee that certain drugs are more addictive than others. The hardest ones to kick actually train your brain to crave them. A team of researchers led by professor David Nutt of London's Imperial College recently set out to determine which drugs were most harmful based on their addictive properties. Dutch scientists replicated the London study and devised a "dependency rating" that measured addictive potency of the biggest drugs out there on a precisely calibrated scale of 0-to-3.
1. Heroin - 2.89
2. Crack Cocaine - 2.82
3. Nicotine - 2.82 (tied with Crack for second "most addictive and hardest to kick" drug!!!)
4. Methadone - 2.68
5. Crystal Meth - 2.24
6. Alcohol - 2.13
7. Cocaine - 2.13
8. Amphetamines - 1.95
9. Benzodiazepines - 1.89
10. GHB - 1.71
on the first 100 days:
"There is growing evidence that on average, it takes about 90 days for the brain to break free of the immediate effects of the drug and reset itself. Researchers at Yale University call this 90-to-100 day period the 'sleeper effect,' a time during which the brain's proper... functions gradually recover."- Tony O'Neill, in his article, "The 100-Day Hangover""Whatever substance you're detoxing from, there's always an attachment. We're talking about people who are cutting off something that has started to feel as vital to them as the air they breathe. So you inevitably go through this painful period of wrenching yourself away from it, and now you're feeling lousy. It's pretty common for many recovering addicts to ask, 'Is this the reward I get for getting clean?' Most people are led to believe that once they stop using, their life will start to get better, when in reality this next period can really suck. But it gets better."- Dr. Arnold Washton, author of Willpower is Not Enough: Recovering From Addictions of Every Kind on not replacing nicotine-addiction with other dopamine-releasing-addictions:
"If you stop using your drug of choice but continue to use alcohol or another drug, you're saying that you don't want to learn new coping skills and that you don't want to change your life. You're saying that you want to continue to rely on drugs or alcohol to escape, relax, and reward yourself. But if you don't learn those new skills, then you won't have changed, and your addiction will catch up with you all over again.- www.AddictionsAndRecovery.org (http://www.AddictionsAndRecovery.org)I read another article (can't find it now to post the quotes) that essentially explained that "addicts are addicts." Meaning, after nicotine has left the body, our cravings are not really cravings for nicotine... they're cravings for dopamine. After years of nicotine use we've created extra "gates" in our brain through which the excess amount of dopamine was able to get to the brain. Now that we've stopped using, those "gates" are huuuungry. We get normal-sized shots of dopamine when we eat, have sex, exercise, complete tasks, etc... but we may also find our cravings pop up soon after (like the post-meal crave)... that's because the brain is used to getting bigger drops of dopamine at a time... so the natural ways we produce it aren't equal to the unnatural/drug-induced ways. So it wants more. The brain doesn't know (or care) what source is feeding it the excessive amounts of dopamine it's used to. So, often nicotine quitters will transition to another addiction - usually alcohol - and they're not actually breaking addiction at all, only shifting it to a new dopamine-source. The article advised steering clear of all drugs/alcohol during the first 100 days of nicotine-quitting so that the brain has time to recover and re-learn proper balance.
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Day 26
Some interesting research:
on Nicotine as a dopamine releasing drug, ala heroin and other opiates:
"Nicotine and opiates are very different drugs, but the endpoint, with respect to the control of dopamine signaling, is almost identical. It demonstrates the seriousness of tobacco addiction, equating its grip on the individual to that of heroin. It reinforces the fact that these addictions are very physiological in nature and that breaking away from the habit is certainly more than just mind over matter."- Daniel McGehee, University of Chicago Medical Center."The 10 Hardest Drugs to Kick"
- by Jacqueline Detwiler
The chemical makeup of drugs guarantee that certain drugs are more addictive than others. The hardest ones to kick actually train your brain to crave them. A team of researchers led by professor David Nutt of London's Imperial College recently set out to determine which drugs were most harmful based on their addictive properties. Dutch scientists replicated the London study and devised a "dependency rating" that measured addictive potency of the biggest drugs out there on a precisely calibrated scale of 0-to-3.
1. Heroin - 2.89
2. Crack Cocaine - 2.82
3. Nicotine - 2.82 (tied with Crack for second "most addictive and hardest to kick" drug!!!)
4. Methadone - 2.68
5. Crystal Meth - 2.24
6. Alcohol - 2.13
7. Cocaine - 2.13
8. Amphetamines - 1.95
9. Benzodiazepines - 1.89
10. GHB - 1.71
on the first 100 days:
"There is growing evidence that on average, it takes about 90 days for the brain to break free of the immediate effects of the drug and reset itself. Researchers at Yale University call this 90-to-100 day period the 'sleeper effect,' a time during which the brain's proper... functions gradually recover."- Tony O'Neill, in his article, "The 100-Day Hangover""Whatever substance you're detoxing from, there's always an attachment. We're talking about people who are cutting off something that has started to feel as vital to them as the air they breathe. So you inevitably go through this painful period of wrenching yourself away from it, and now you're feeling lousy. It's pretty common for many recovering addicts to ask, 'Is this the reward I get for getting clean?' Most people are led to believe that once they stop using, their life will start to get better, when in reality this next period can really suck. But it gets better."- Dr. Arnold Washton, author of Willpower is Not Enough: Recovering From Addictions of Every Kind on not replacing nicotine-addiction with other dopamine-releasing-addictions:
"If you stop using your drug of choice but continue to use alcohol or another drug, you're saying that you don't want to learn new coping skills and that you don't want to change your life. You're saying that you want to continue to rely on drugs or alcohol to escape, relax, and reward yourself. But if you don't learn those new skills, then you won't have changed, and your addiction will catch up with you all over again.- www.AddictionsAndRecovery.org (http://www.AddictionsAndRecovery.org)I read another article (can't find it now to post the quotes) that essentially explained that "addicts are addicts." Meaning, after nicotine has left the body, our cravings are not really cravings for nicotine... they're cravings for dopamine. After years of nicotine use we've created extra "gates" in our brain through which the excess amount of dopamine was able to get to the brain. Now that we've stopped using, those "gates" are huuuungry. We get normal-sized shots of dopamine when we eat, have sex, exercise, complete tasks, etc... but we may also find our cravings pop up soon after (like the post-meal crave)... that's because the brain is used to getting bigger drops of dopamine at a time... so the natural ways we produce it aren't equal to the unnatural/drug-induced ways. So it wants more. The brain doesn't know (or care) what source is feeding it the excessive amounts of dopamine it's used to. So, often nicotine quitters will transition to another addiction - usually alcohol - and they're not actually breaking addiction at all, only shifting it to a new dopamine-source. The article advised steering clear of all drugs/alcohol during the first 100 days of nicotine-quitting so that the brain has time to recover and re-learn proper balance.
Thanks for posting this! This is great information! I'm going to repost this to my intro because I want to remember it!
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Day 32
In the eye of the storm right now. All is peaceful. No real cravings. Hardly a thought most of the day. I see from some others' posts that it's not always going to be this way. But I'm enjoying it while it is.
Playing in a baseball tournament at Doubleday Field in Cooperstown tomorrow. I have been fearful of this looming ahead of me - afraid that it will be a huge test of my quit. But I feel strong. I'll have my seeds with me - and even some fake stuff if I need it. Actually, it's perfect that it comes during a wave of strength.
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Just reading your last few entries now. Good stuff, man. The addiction/behavioral science info you posted is money. I love having data points like that to help me put things into perspective. Addiction is not some sort of nebulous abstraction that we can't explain. It's clinical and therefor something we can control.
You've got just the right mindset heading into your big weekend. Just as those blurbs you posted pointed out, your brain is still rewiring how to do things without interference from nicotine. Hitting the ballfield sounds like a big part of that process for you. The smart money says you're going to crush it this weekend. Reach out at any point if you need some support.
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Just reading your last few entries now. Good stuff, man. The addiction/behavioral science info you posted is money. I love having data points like that to help me put things into perspective. Addiction is not some sort of nebulous abstraction that we can't explain. It's clinical and therefor something we can control.
You've got just the right mindset heading into your big weekend. Just as those blurbs you posted pointed out, your brain is still rewiring how to do things without interference from nicotine. Hitting the ballfield sounds like a big part of that process for you. The smart money says you're going to crush it this weekend. Reach out at any point if you need some support.
Knowledge and awareness you have. Essential they are. Quit is strong in this one.
Have some digits in the phone just in case.
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Day 26
Some interesting research:
on Nicotine as a dopamine releasing drug, ala heroin and other opiates:
"Nicotine and opiates are very different drugs, but the endpoint, with respect to the control of dopamine signaling, is almost identical. It demonstrates the seriousness of tobacco addiction, equating its grip on the individual to that of heroin. It reinforces the fact that these addictions are very physiological in nature and that breaking away from the habit is certainly more than just mind over matter."- Daniel McGehee, University of Chicago Medical Center."The 10 Hardest Drugs to Kick"
- by Jacqueline Detwiler
The chemical makeup of drugs guarantee that certain drugs are more addictive than others. The hardest ones to kick actually train your brain to crave them. A team of researchers led by professor David Nutt of London's Imperial College recently set out to determine which drugs were most harmful based on their addictive properties. Dutch scientists replicated the London study and devised a "dependency rating" that measured addictive potency of the biggest drugs out there on a precisely calibrated scale of 0-to-3.
1. Heroin - 2.89
2. Crack Cocaine - 2.82
3. Nicotine - 2.82 (tied with Crack for second "most addictive and hardest to kick" drug!!!)
4. Methadone - 2.68
5. Crystal Meth - 2.24
6. Alcohol - 2.13
7. Cocaine - 2.13
8. Amphetamines - 1.95
9. Benzodiazepines - 1.89
10. GHB - 1.71
on the first 100 days:
"There is growing evidence that on average, it takes about 90 days for the brain to break free of the immediate effects of the drug and reset itself. Researchers at Yale University call this 90-to-100 day period the 'sleeper effect,' a time during which the brain's proper... functions gradually recover."- Tony O'Neill, in his article, "The 100-Day Hangover""Whatever substance you're detoxing from, there's always an attachment. We're talking about people who are cutting off something that has started to feel as vital to them as the air they breathe. So you inevitably go through this painful period of wrenching yourself away from it, and now you're feeling lousy. It's pretty common for many recovering addicts to ask, 'Is this the reward I get for getting clean?' Most people are led to believe that once they stop using, their life will start to get better, when in reality this next period can really suck. But it gets better."- Dr. Arnold Washton, author of Willpower is Not Enough: Recovering From Addictions of Every Kind on not replacing nicotine-addiction with other dopamine-releasing-addictions:
"If you stop using your drug of choice but continue to use alcohol or another drug, you're saying that you don't want to learn new coping skills and that you don't want to change your life. You're saying that you want to continue to rely on drugs or alcohol to escape, relax, and reward yourself. But if you don't learn those new skills, then you won't have changed, and your addiction will catch up with you all over again.- www.AddictionsAndRecovery.org (http://www.AddictionsAndRecovery.org)I read another article (can't find it now to post the quotes) that essentially explained that "addicts are addicts." Meaning, after nicotine has left the body, our cravings are not really cravings for nicotine... they're cravings for dopamine. After years of nicotine use we've created extra "gates" in our brain through which the excess amount of dopamine was able to get to the brain. Now that we've stopped using, those "gates" are huuuungry. We get normal-sized shots of dopamine when we eat, have sex, exercise, complete tasks, etc... but we may also find our cravings pop up soon after (like the post-meal crave)... that's because the brain is used to getting bigger drops of dopamine at a time... so the natural ways we produce it aren't equal to the unnatural/drug-induced ways. So it wants more. The brain doesn't know (or care) what source is feeding it the excessive amounts of dopamine it's used to. So, often nicotine quitters will transition to another addiction - usually alcohol - and they're not actually breaking addiction at all, only shifting it to a new dopamine-source. The article advised steering clear of all drugs/alcohol during the first 100 days of nicotine-quitting so that the brain has time to recover and re-learn proper balance.
Thanks for posting this! This is great information! I'm going to repost this to my intro because I want to remember it!
I'm going to do the same. Great stuff David! Glad to be quit with you!
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Day 35
5 weeks.
Had a great weekend at Cooperstown! At first, it felt weird to play without dip... like something was missing... but that was just a mental blip. Shook it off, loaded my mouth with seeds, and had a day. It felt great. My friends were super supportive. I can't wait to stand at the plate and take a pic with my KTC chip next year!
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Day 26
Some interesting research:
on Nicotine as a dopamine releasing drug, ala heroin and other opiates:
"Nicotine and opiates are very different drugs, but the endpoint, with respect to the control of dopamine signaling, is almost identical. It demonstrates the seriousness of tobacco addiction, equating its grip on the individual to that of heroin. It reinforces the fact that these addictions are very physiological in nature and that breaking away from the habit is certainly more than just mind over matter."- Daniel McGehee, University of Chicago Medical Center."The 10 Hardest Drugs to Kick"
- by Jacqueline Detwiler
The chemical makeup of drugs guarantee that certain drugs are more addictive than others. The hardest ones to kick actually train your brain to crave them. A team of researchers led by professor David Nutt of London's Imperial College recently set out to determine which drugs were most harmful based on their addictive properties. Dutch scientists replicated the London study and devised a "dependency rating" that measured addictive potency of the biggest drugs out there on a precisely calibrated scale of 0-to-3.
1. Heroin - 2.89
2. Crack Cocaine - 2.82
3. Nicotine - 2.82 (tied with Crack for second "most addictive and hardest to kick" drug!!!)
4. Methadone - 2.68
5. Crystal Meth - 2.24
6. Alcohol - 2.13
7. Cocaine - 2.13
8. Amphetamines - 1.95
9. Benzodiazepines - 1.89
10. GHB - 1.71
on the first 100 days:
"There is growing evidence that on average, it takes about 90 days for the brain to break free of the immediate effects of the drug and reset itself. Researchers at Yale University call this 90-to-100 day period the 'sleeper effect,' a time during which the brain's proper... functions gradually recover."- Tony O'Neill, in his article, "The 100-Day Hangover""Whatever substance you're detoxing from, there's always an attachment. We're talking about people who are cutting off something that has started to feel as vital to them as the air they breathe. So you inevitably go through this painful period of wrenching yourself away from it, and now you're feeling lousy. It's pretty common for many recovering addicts to ask, 'Is this the reward I get for getting clean?' Most people are led to believe that once they stop using, their life will start to get better, when in reality this next period can really suck. But it gets better."- Dr. Arnold Washton, author of Willpower is Not Enough: Recovering From Addictions of Every Kind on not replacing nicotine-addiction with other dopamine-releasing-addictions:
"If you stop using your drug of choice but continue to use alcohol or another drug, you're saying that you don't want to learn new coping skills and that you don't want to change your life. You're saying that you want to continue to rely on drugs or alcohol to escape, relax, and reward yourself. But if you don't learn those new skills, then you won't have changed, and your addiction will catch up with you all over again.- www.AddictionsAndRecovery.org (http://www.AddictionsAndRecovery.org)I read another article (can't find it now to post the quotes) that essentially explained that "addicts are addicts." Meaning, after nicotine has left the body, our cravings are not really cravings for nicotine... they're cravings for dopamine. After years of nicotine use we've created extra "gates" in our brain through which the excess amount of dopamine was able to get to the brain. Now that we've stopped using, those "gates" are huuuungry. We get normal-sized shots of dopamine when we eat, have sex, exercise, complete tasks, etc... but we may also find our cravings pop up soon after (like the post-meal crave)... that's because the brain is used to getting bigger drops of dopamine at a time... so the natural ways we produce it aren't equal to the unnatural/drug-induced ways. So it wants more. The brain doesn't know (or care) what source is feeding it the excessive amounts of dopamine it's used to. So, often nicotine quitters will transition to another addiction - usually alcohol - and they're not actually breaking addiction at all, only shifting it to a new dopamine-source. The article advised steering clear of all drugs/alcohol during the first 100 days of nicotine-quitting so that the brain has time to recover and re-learn proper balance.
Thanks for posting this! This is great information! I'm going to repost this to my intro because I want to remember it!
I'm going to do the same. Great stuff David! Glad to be quit with you!
I just saw this. Thanks for the great information!
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Day 35
5 weeks.
Had a great weekend at Cooperstown! At first, it felt weird to play without dip... like something was missing... but that was just a mental blip. Shook it off, loaded my mouth with seeds, and had a day. It felt great. My friends were super supportive. I can't wait to stand at the plate and take a pic with my KTC chip next year!
Nice win David! You are doing it right, keep working your quit. Use the eye of the storm break to strengthen your quit: keep building your accountability, keep adding phone #s, adopt a newb, and get ready for the rollercoaster to take you up the next hill.
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Nice quit you have going here, David! I just read through your intro after reading BigRedDude's repost of your research into addiction. That is very helpful to me. I have long felt that just "normal" daily highs were just not enough for me, which is probably a big reason I was so susceptible to addiction. I really need to learn healthier ways of dealing with those craves. This site and insights from fellow quitters are a great way to start! Congrats on the no-chew baseball weekend.
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Day 17.
Really tough day. Cravings are particularly strong. They're spaced far apart - but strong when they hit. And different: they're amplified by the fear that this feeling is never going to go away, that this is my life now: periodic waves of pain.
[***WARNING: All you rabid Quit-police, you don't need to light me up for what I'm about to say. It's not what I really think... it's just what I'm thinking. I'm logging the emotions of my quit... not making conclusions.***]
I don't want to live in pain everyday for the rest of my life. Yeah, I might get cancer from dip. But... I might not. I started late; I'm not in the highest risk categories.
I might get heart disease from the nicotine. But... I might not. I'm in fairly good shape. How much longer can I go on being quit - if it doesn't get easier than this?
--
Of course, I immediately see the faulty logic in that! "I might get cancer from dip." "I might get heart disease from nicotine." Isn't that reason enough to endure this mild pain now?! (I'm also visualizing the disgusting picture BigRedDude loves to show everyone. C,mon Red! You've scarred my brain!!!! lol)
Isn't this mild pain merely an inconvenience in comparison?
Perhaps, I need to embrace this pain - and begin to think about it differently.... as something good - even if (especially if) it never goes away.- It is, for one thing, the consequence of my foolishness: the result of my former bad choices and my willful surrender to addiction, in spite of the warnings. (There are warnings on the packs!, on the cans! So stupid.) So.... when I feel the pain, I am reminded: some decisions carry a lifetime of consequence. Use wisdom!
- It is, for another thing, a sign of my ongoing victory over something that is trying to destroy me. Struggling is a sign you haven't given up. The only way to lose this battle is to surrender. So... when I feel the pain, I am encouraged: I haven't given up, laid down, caved in. I'm still standing - in spite of the pain. I AM winning this battle.
No temptation has overtaken you except what is common to mankind. And God is faithful; he will not let you be tempted beyond what you can bear. But when you are tempted, he will also provide a way out so that you can endure it. (1 Corinthians 10:13)
This post may very well have saved me from a cave yesterday. The worst craving I've had yet, on day 11, and it lasted well over 2 hours. Just a battle between two different sides of my brain debating the argument as to weather I should break down and buy a six pack and a can of dip or not. And just to set the record straight, I haven't had a craving in a couple days prior to this. Thanks to david.m and this post it helped the logical side of my brain take control. Thanks Dave and KTC. I was a little skeptical of this site from the beginning, but I'm quickly understanding how well this works when you use it correctly.
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Day 39
Feeling the rumblings of "cravings" today. That is, I'm feeling a bit anxious, a bit distracted, and a bit down.
All for different reasons - or no reason at all - but all things that would've led me to nicotine - 39 days ago. Not anymore.
I mention it because while the "craving" feeling is there, it's not nearly what it was in the first three weeks.
It's far far weaker, for one thing.
Also, I understand it differently: the feelings (anxiety, etc.) are the issue, not my refusal to mask them with harmful substances and behaviors.
I'm learning to stop saying, "I'm craving dip"... and start thinking it through... "I'm stressed... I'm depressed... I'm angry... etc."
I also mention it because it's helpful to write it out. I would encourage all quitters to keep a log.
It gives you a place to toss your thoughts - memorable or forgettable, as they may be.
Also (see post above) you never know when your experience will be significant to a fellow quitter. And that just feels amazing when you find out you have helped another. Thank you Heisenberg for that encouragement!!!
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Day 39
Feeling the rumblings of "cravings" today. That is, I'm feeling a bit anxious, a bit distracted, and a bit down.
All for different reasons - or no reason at all - but all things that would've led me to nicotine - 39 days ago. Not anymore.
I mention it because while the "craving" feeling is there, it's not nearly what it was in the first three weeks.
It's far far weaker, for one thing.
Also, I understand it differently: the feelings (anxiety, etc.) are the issue, not my refusal to mask them with harmful substances and behaviors.
I'm learning to stop saying, "I'm craving dip"... and start thinking it through... "I'm stressed... I'm depressed... I'm angry... etc."
I also mention it because it's helpful to write it out. I would encourage all quitters to keep a log.
It gives you a place to toss your thoughts - memorable or forgettable, as they may be.
Also (see post above) you never know when your experience will be significant to a fellow quitter. And that just feels amazing when you find out you have helped another. Thank you Heisenberg for that encouragement!!!
I love your idea of thinking through "craves" and getting to the root of what we're really dealing with and facing the stress, anxiety, boredom or whatever it is that is bugging us rather than simply blaming it on dip. I'm going to stop referring to those moments as craves because I think it gives dip more recognition and power than it deserves.
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Day 40.
What's in a number?
Genesis 7:17 | For FORTY DAYS the flood kept coming on the earth, and as the waters increased they lifted the ark high above the earth.
After 40 days of purging... life got a fresh start.
Exodus 34:28 | Moses was there with the Lord FORTY DAYS and forty nights without eating bread or drinking water. And he wrote on the tablets the words of the covenant.
Strengthened by God's presence to endure 40 days of self-denial...revelation of God's promises became clear.
Numbers 13:25 | At the end of FORTY DAYS they [Joshua, Caleb the other spies sent to Canaan] returned from exploring the [promised] land.
12 men spent 40 days surveying what God promised them he would give them. 10 caved. 2 believed and entered.
1 Samuel 17:16 | For FORTY DAYS the Philistine [Goliath] came forward every morning and evening and took his stand.
After 40 days of being mocked by a seemingly unconquerable foe... God helped David defeat the giant.
1 Kings 19:8 | So he [Elijah] got up and ate and drank. Strengthened by that food, he traveled FORTY DAYS and forty nights until he reached Horeb, the mountain of God.
Thinking all was hopeless, Elijah found a supernatural source of strength to endure a 40 day journey to encounter the presence of God.
Jonah 3:4 | Jonah began by going a dayÂ’s journey into the city, proclaiming, "FORTY DAYS and Nineveh will be overthrown."
After spending time in the stomach of a fish for his rebellion, Jonah brings warning to Ninevah. Ninevah responds and their destruction is averted.
Luke 4:1-2 | Jesus, full of the Holy Spirit, left the Jordan and was led by the Spirit into the wilderness, where for FORTY DAYS he was tempted by the devil. He ate nothing during those days, and at the end of them he was hungry.
After 40 days of self-denial - amidst great temptation - Jesus emerged purified and clear on his life's purpose.
Acts 1:3 | After his suffering, he presented himself to them and gave many convincing proofs that he was alive. He appeared to them over a period of FORTY DAYS and spoke about the kingdom of God.
Having cheated death and emerging from Hell, Jesus spent 40 days preparing His disciples for the new world his suffering had accomplished.
May your FORTY DAYS of evil-purging, self-denying, giant-killing, and temptation-resisting...
...be marked by God's promise, His presence, and His strengthening...
...and though others may cave... may you believe!
And may your destruction be averted, your blood be purified, your mind made clear...
...and may you understand that these first 40 Days are not the end...
...but a preparation for your new life of freedom that this suffering is accomplishing for you.
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Day 43
Watching the Albuquerque sun rise... it has been 2 years and 27 days since I quit smoking. It's here that I started that journey. It was in the quiet of these New Mexico mornings that I "discovered" and meditated on the truth of my freedom from that addiction. Now, 43 days into my freedom from dip - and nicotine (the real source) - I am reminded of and filled with the serene yet powerful sense of peace that knowing you're free brings.
It's a revelation: I don't do that. I am not that. I (the truest sense of "I") don't want that.
757 days without a cigarette (or any other type of smoke entering my lungs)
43 days without a dip (or any other type of nicotine entering my blood stream)
The numbers don't seem that large. But the finality of "without" feels infinite. Never again.
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Great work David, NAFAR is so nice once you get that mindset, but never forget ODAAT! You still have some rollercoaster left so stay frosty.
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Day 50
Half way to that beautiful coin.
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Day 50
Half way to that beautiful coin.
Nice David! You are doing it! (ODAAT)
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Day 50
Half way to that beautiful coin.
Nice David! You are doing it! (ODAAT)
Keep up the strong QUIT David
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Day 74.
Ughhhhhh.
Before I joined, I read KTCers talking about the wave of cravings that came around the 70s. I had been cruising along nicely and figured it just wouldn't happen to me. But .... Having a tough Day 74!!! So weird. It's like I can taste it. A terrible trick of the mind.
BUT... I KNOW I WON'T CAVE because...
1. I am not a dipper. I don't dip.
2. I am a TITAN. And we don't cave; we quit.
3. I have been educated about the addiction thru KTC - so I'm not surprised. Eyes wide open.
4. I know countless KTCers in the HOF and + who have rode through this and boarded the train - including Lim. And he's ghey.
5. I have 100% posting status and I'm addicted to having OCD... EDD. The Roll works!
6. That evil craving has already passed since I started this entry.
Thanks KTC.
Thanks Titans.
I'm staying quit with you thru the 70's and beyond!
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Day 74.
Ughhhhhh.
Before I joined, I read KTCers talking about the wave of cravings that came around the 70s. I had been cruising along nicely and figured it just wouldn't happen to me. But .... Having a tough Day 74!!! So weird. It's like I can taste it. A terrible trick of the mind.
BUT... I KNOW I WON'T CAVE because...
1. I am not a dipper. I don't dip.
2. I am a TITAN. And we don't cave; we quit.
3. I have been educated about the addiction thru KTC - so I'm not surprised. Eyes wide open.
4. I know countless KTCers in the HOF and + who have rode through this and boarded the train - including Lim. And he's ghey.
5. I have 100% posting status and I'm addicted to having OCD... EDD. The Roll works!
6. That evil craving has already passed since I started this entry.
Thanks KTC.
Thanks Titans.
I'm staying quit with you thru the 70's and beyond!
Way to do it Bro!
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Day 74.
Ughhhhhh.
Before I joined, I read KTCers talking about the wave of cravings that came around the 70s. I had been cruising along nicely and figured it just wouldn't happen to me. But .... Having a tough Day 74!!! So weird. It's like I can taste it. A terrible trick of the mind.
BUT... I KNOW I WON'T CAVE because...
1. I am not a dipper. I don't dip.
2. I am a TITAN. And we don't cave; we quit.
3. I have been educated about the addiction thru KTC - so I'm not surprised. Eyes wide open.
4. I know countless KTCers in the HOF and + who have rode through this and boarded the train - including Lim. And he's ghey.
5. I have 100% posting status and I'm addicted to having OCD... EDD. The Roll works!
6. That evil craving has already passed since I started this entry.
Thanks KTC.
Thanks Titans.
I'm staying quit with you thru the 70's and beyond!
Way to do it Bro!
Keep up the solid quit David. Quit with you!