KillTheCan.org Accountability Forum
Community => Introductions => Topic started by: medquit on May 07, 2016, 03:08:00 AM
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Hey everyone, I'm a medical student who first developed an affection for nicotine in college through cigarettes. I had considered myself a "chipper" back then because I would sometimes smoke a pack in a week and sometimes it'd take me 3 months to go through one. It didn't seem to have much of a pull.
Then I discovered snus pouches. These may seem like an odd thing to get hooked on, but I think they ended up being dangerous in my case as I could use them as a surrogate to caffeine that would wear off quicker so I could study later and sleep, and they are less messy so I can use them wherever I want. Eventually I started using them during tests to increase performance, and then every time I was studying, and then every time I was at school, etc. It creeped in without me really noticing how much I started to depend on it.
I know the effects of tobacco all too well, and am confronted with it almost every day. I think that's a good thing, because I think a lot of patients I see are able to by and large ignore the reality of their use the 99.99% of the time they're not interacting with a medical professional. It's also a good thing because it's fucking emasculating to talk to a patient about their smoking habit from a position of medical authority when I don't follow the advice I'm giving.
I've gone weeks without tobacco "to see if I could do it" without much issue other than lots of sleep and irritability in the first 72 hrs, but I've noticed that after a couple of weeks when I finally start to feel like I could do without it for good, I'll end up casually going back to it as if I'd never tried it before, because the problem is I still think I'm in control. Finally admitting to myself that's not the case, and I think this site can help keep me reminded of that in the coming weeks.
Posting roll now. Good luck to everyone else on their journey.
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Welcome medquit. Congratulations on your decision, and thank you for dedicating your life to medicine. Maybe your experience as an addict will help you better relate to addicted patients in the future.
My only advice to you is to always make your Quit a priority in your life. You will always be an addict, just like I am, and just like everyone else here is. The best, and simplest way to make your Quit a priority is to remain as active here on KTC as your life will allow you to be.
Post Roll daily, even if all the time you have is when you are sitting on the toilet. If you keep your Quit in the front of your mind, you won't give nicotine a chance to slither back in.
I'm proud to quit with you.
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I am pleasantly surprised to see you post up Medquit! I saw your post about how you were going to quit after your exam and thought to myself - "how many times did I lie to myself about when I was "going to" quit." But here you are at KTC and posting up a day 1. You clearly are a man of your word and have taken that most important step - making that promise. Now that you are quit, you just need to do that agin with the rest of us here evry damn day, and never forget - there is no such thing as just one! Welcome back to integrity Medquit!
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Awesome job finding your group and posting roll! Get active, get involved, and don't suffer alone. Everyone is feeling what you're feeling so speak up when and if you have a moment of weakness. Happy to be quit with you today.
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CONGRATS!!! Best decision ever! Okay. Medical professionals and Counselors tend to be the hardest to deal with. I am very glad you are here and are posting. So, here it is. ACCEPTANCE. This will make the biggest difference in dealing with everyone and everything. Next. WATER. Drink it up. Best thing for withdrawals. BROTHERHOOD and ACCOUNTABILITY. You have it here, you have to reach for it. You want the quit, you do the work. Again. Welcome! So much info and testimonials on this site! Use it up! We can only keep what we give away.
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Thanks for the replies everyone.
It's been just over 24 hours since my last dip. My head feels a little fuzzy today and my hands get shaky/sweaty now but so far so good, pretty much on par with expectations. Thanks to those of you who have exchanged numbers with me, I've already gotten some great advice.
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Thanks for the replies everyone.
It's been just over 24 hours since my last dip. My head feels a little fuzzy today and my hands get shaky/sweaty now but so far so good, pretty much on par with expectations. Thanks to those of you who have exchanged numbers with me, I've already gotten some great advice.
Learn to hate it med....
It jacks with peoples identity.
Its a bandaid that never heals anything.
It lies.
Every user is... another victim.
Help others deal with life....without the use of poison.
Appreciate you being here.
Will appreciate you staying.
We need you.
You need us.
Relationships are more important than drugs.
I Quit with you today.
Rawls 537
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48 hrs. Went out last night and drank with a bunch of friends who are social smokers. I just thought of you guys and my roll promise and was able to easily push it away. Sorry nicotine but not today 'Finger'
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48 hrs. Went out last night and drank with a bunch of friends who are social smokers. I just thought of you guys and my roll promise and was able to easily push it away. Sorry nicotine but not today 'Finger'
That's what it takes Med. Nice win!
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48 hrs. Went out last night and drank with a bunch of friends who are social smokers. I just thought of you guys and my roll promise and was able to easily push it away. Sorry nicotine but not today 'Finger'
That's what it takes Med. Nice win!
Good job! Real early in your quit to be around that and had you said something I believe 99.9% of us would have jumped you. LOL! So, tell you what. Dont do it again....at least for a while. You did great on your coping skill and keeping your promise and that is to be commended. Plllleeeeeease. Dont do it again. Proud to be quit with you today.
Just for today, Self.
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48 hrs. Went out last night and drank with a bunch of friends who are social smokers. I just thought of you guys and my roll promise and was able to easily push it away. Sorry nicotine but not today 'Finger'
That's what it takes Med. Nice win!
Good job! Real early in your quit to be around that and had you said something I believe 99.9% of us would have jumped you. LOL! So, tell you what. Dont do it again....at least for a while. You did great on your coping skill and keeping your promise and that is to be commended. Plllleeeeeease. Dont do it again. Proud to be quit with you today.
Just for today, Self.
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Yeah you're right, I've heard the advice to be wary of alcohol the first few months. Luckily I won't be going out with those guys again anytime soon so I don't foresee any issues.
Still, it's cool that even as I'm in acute withdrawal I'm putting KTC (and myself) ahead of any temptations, and I've only been here for a few days. You guys have built something really awesome here, and I'm really pumped to be joining you all.
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Quit for 72 hours. I'll update less frequently now that I'm out of the 3-day window (still posting roll obviously). Will update here again at 1 week, 2 weeks, 1 month, etc.
Triggers I've confronted/need to confront:
[X] Eating (definitely my most ritualized trigger, so it's been a tough one)
[X] Studying (very proud of myself for being able to study effectively the last few days without dip)
[X] Drinking/being around smokers
[X] Boredom (worked on this one first by doing nothing this weekend)
[ ] Stressful life event
[ ] Driving (long trip tomorrow, I'm very nervous about it)
[ ] Post-exercise (going to the gym tonight though)
If anyone has any tips for long drives I'd really appreciate it. My resolve is strong but relatively untested, and I'll obviously have to stop for gas tomorrow so I'm sort of terrified about that as well. Maybe I just won't go inside. I don't know, I haven't come face to face with a tin since Friday and I'm not sure if I'm ready to either.
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For the drive, try to pick up some of the smokey mountain herbal stuff - they sell it at Walmart. That will at least give you something to do - sunflower seeds do the same thing.
Also try downloading Audible and doing a book on tape rather than music. Maybe if you get really invested in a story it will take your mind off of the craving.
You could avoid going into the gas station, but honestly I think you're better off setting it up as a challenge and facing it. Do it just like the checklist in your post.
[ ] Don't buy dip when getting road trip supplies
[ ] Don't stop for dip for hour 1
[ ] Don't stop for dip for hour 2
[ ] Stop at gas station, fill tank, buy a pack of gum, seeds, jerky and a mountain dew code red
[ ] Leave station with your items, sans tobacco
[ ] Don't stop for dip for hour 3,4,5...
[ ] Arrive at your destination
Look at that list - piece of cake.
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I used (who am I kidding, still use) sugar free gum a substitute.
On my first long drive, I gave myself no limit on the amount of gum I could chew, the frequency of taking a new piece, how many pieces to chew at one time.
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Med..... You are very interesting.
You are so coherent of the moment.
Obviously expressive.
And well studied....to say smart.
I enjoy your intro. And thank you for it.
I hope you post in hear as you feel the need.
Its a great sword towards addiction.
Dont put limits on time spent here expressing your struggles and victories.
My fear... Is your flip of the coin towards the dark side young medquit.
You are still guessing about tomorrow.
Focus on your ability today!
Just today.
Just today with 5 or more other quiters.
Your promise today is another rock you should stand on.
I believe you will.
We are addicts.
We have a responsibility to keep our focus on Today.
Im not concerned about tomorrow.
I didnt make a promise about tomorrow .
My word is on today.
Throw a shovel of dirt on the old med...
Let him die.
He was lied too.... Your grown up now.
Let truth set your new path.
I hate when I preach.
Im sorry...... No one has ever gained anything with nicotine.
I quit with you today.
Rawls 539
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Rawls, I appreciate your insight. I do tend to get ahead of myself sometimes. I'm very analytical and anxious in general, but you're right; I need to remember to focus on the here and now. I needed the reminder, thank you for that.
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Over 100 hours of quit. I made my drive yesterday with no nic and a ton of chewing gum, thanks for the tips guys.
Today is the best I've felt so far. Minimal headaches, still a little foggy, but this is the first day I've been able to even wrap my mind around being out of the suck. Went outside this morning with a cup of coffee and just thought about how thankful I am to have all I do in my life, including all of you.
Looking back, there were definitely moments this weekend when I subconsciously doubted my ability to succeed with this quit. If I continue to feel as good as I feel now though, I know it's possible. The way I feel now beats anything I felt with nicotine, and I don't even think I'm 100% clear of withdrawal symptoms yet. I am very stressed right now with life and school stuff and I am learning to cope using exercise, meditation and optimism... not nicotine. If I can do it now, I can do it forever.
Future self, never forget the suck.
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Over 100 hours of quit. I made my drive yesterday with no nic and a ton of chewing gum, thanks for the tips guys.
Today is the best I've felt so far. Minimal headaches, still a little foggy, but this is the first day I've been able to even wrap my mind around being out of the suck. Went outside this morning with a cup of coffee and just thought about how thankful I am to have all I do in my life, including all of you.
Looking back, there were definitely moments this weekend when I subconsciously doubted my ability to succeed with this quit. If I continue to feel as good as I feel now though, I know it's possible. The way I feel now beats anything I felt with nicotine, and I don't even think I'm 100% clear of withdrawal symptoms yet. I am very stressed right now with life and school stuff and I am learning to cope using exercise, meditation and optimism... not nicotine. If I can do it now, I can do it forever.
Future self, never forget the suck.
You are in a good spot. Forewarning, good spots can be just as powerful of a trigger as stress and bad spots. One brother told me to keep my head on a swivel. I did and still do because of that reason. Not saying live a life of paranoia. by no means. Just saying that complacency is a killer.
Side note. You are doing great! I am surprised by your success. And again, no offense. Like I said Med professionals tend to be the hardest. I say that as a counselor and having Doctors and male nurses as clients in the past I know how bull headed you guys are. Keep surprising me! Very proud to be quit with you!
Just for today, Self.
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Over 100 hours of quit. I made my drive yesterday with no nic and a ton of chewing gum, thanks for the tips guys.
Today is the best I've felt so far. Minimal headaches, still a little foggy, but this is the first day I've been able to even wrap my mind around being out of the suck. Went outside this morning with a cup of coffee and just thought about how thankful I am to have all I do in my life, including all of you.
Looking back, there were definitely moments this weekend when I subconsciously doubted my ability to succeed with this quit. If I continue to feel as good as I feel now though, I know it's possible. The way I feel now beats anything I felt with nicotine, and I don't even think I'm 100% clear of withdrawal symptoms yet. I am very stressed right now with life and school stuff and I am learning to cope using exercise, meditation and optimism... not nicotine. If I can do it now, I can do it forever.
Future self, never forget the suck.
You are in a good spot. Forewarning, good spots can be just as powerful of a trigger as stress and bad spots. One brother told me to keep my head on a swivel. I did and still do because of that reason. Not saying live a life of paranoia. by no means. Just saying that complacency is a killer.
Side note. You are doing great! I am surprised by your success. And again, no offense. Like I said Med professionals tend to be the hardest. I say that as a counselor and having Doctors and male nurses as clients in the past I know how bull headed you guys are. Keep surprising me! Very proud to be quit with you!
Just for today, Self.
Great to hear some of the fog is lifting Med. Kubiak made some very good points about complacency and the risks of overthinking your quit. Posting roll is the promise to continue this fight through the fog and the suck each day. You got a glimpse of how much better it can be - and it will be - but the path is strewn with rocks. Remember we are here to help you past them. CJ
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Kubiack and ChrisJ, thanks for the kind words and advice. I have read about getting complacent on here, I understand to never let my guard down!
Kubiack I think it's funny that I surprise you, I think the reason you think that is that there may be a relatively bimodal distribution of physicians who use nic. Totally conjecture here, but I'll bet like the general population there's a group of physicians that constantly tries to fight the addiction by "not using too much" and "outsmarting the nic" and I'll bet there's another group who realize they are addicts and are able to quit solo +/- some varenicline. Both groups are goal oriented and motivated, it's just that only one of those groups actually has the goal of quitting. I'll bet you see more of the former group, who haven't admitted to themselves that they can't quit/need help, and I can totally imagine those ones being tough to break! Just remember that we are people too, and we are all different :)
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I've broken 7 days without nicotine. Going through a lot of different sensations and emotions so I'm just going to list them:
1. Headaches are completely gone.
2. Difficulty concentrating is still there but it's improving at a rate quicker than I initially anticipated, which I'm very happy about.
3. For now, it seems I don't get really hard cravings more than once per day, and it's usually only for about 10-20 seconds. It seems like I am retraining my brain to think about this forum in place of nicotine, because it seems like whenever I would normally think about dipping, I check out this site without even remembering that I'm in the process of quitting, but more just to see what's up/what people are talking about. That's an inexplicably cool feeling, I hope everyone experiences that to some degree because it's awesome. Hopefully the cravings don't get worse, bc right now they're a non-issue.
4. There is some massive ulceration/epithelial sloughing going on in various parts of my buccal mucosa right now, but it's obvious that healing is taking place. Scheduling a dentist appt for mid June.
The above has only been occupying my mind for like 10% of the time. The main 90% is this: I FEEL GOOD. I feel like being constantly bombarded with dopamine desensitized me to how amazing some things in our world are.
I'll explain it this way:
Think about things that normally would make you 10/10 the happiest you could ever be in that moment. Now say dip resets your happiness scale from a maximum of 10 to 20, and it gives you all 20. So now nicotine is 20/20, but nothing else changes. So now those happy things that previous were the best you could feel are 10/20, which is just middle of the road enjoyment. Only nicotine can make you feel 20/20, nothing else comes close.
The benefit to quitting is that now I can feel that maximum number starting to drop back down to a 10. I feel amazing after working out now, whereas before it wasn't nearly as fulfilling as my next dip would be. Sex is better. Food is better. Colors seem more colorful. When I'm happy I'm happier, and when I'm sad I'm sadder which I'm ecstatic about, because I want to live life fully/to experience the full range of emotions life has to offer.
I feel like nicotine is an anesthetic in every sense; it blunts a lot of bad sensations, sure, but at the expense of blunting all of the good ones. I only wish I had taken the time to do this sooner so I could fully understand what I was giving up. How could you ever trade what I am experiencing now for ANYTHING?
I hope I have made clear to all reading the personal significance of this realization. This is some real allegory of the cave shit. What I thought was real when I dipped was nothing but the shadow of reality. I've been unchained. I see the light, and it is fucking gorgeous.
Thank you KTC for getting me this far. I look forward to continuing this journey together!
Speaking of which, for those who have not read Plato's "The Allegory of the Cave" and want some mental stimulation, here is some crave-reading: https://web.stanford.edu/class/ihum40/cave.pdf (https://web.stanford.edu/class/ihum40/cave.pdf)
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Congrats on the one week milestone! That first week is a bear and you should be proud that you made it through.
One thing I want to echo is what Kubiak was saying, just because things feel good now, doesn't mean they will only get better. After my first week I felt really good until about 25 days in and then it was a mix of fog, depression and life kicking you when you are already down. That lasted about 1.5 weeks, then it's been pretty smooth since. I'm not trying to be a downer, just want to say have a plan for when shit goes sideways and stick to it. That way you are never caught unawares.
Proud to quit with you today!
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Kubiack and ChrisJ, thanks for the kind words and advice. I have read about getting complacent on here, I understand to never let my guard down!
Kubiack I think it's funny that I surprise you, I think the reason you think that is that there may be a relatively bimodal distribution of physicians who use nic. Totally conjecture here, but I'll bet like the general population there's a group of physicians that constantly tries to fight the addiction by "not using too much" and "outsmarting the nic" and I'll bet there's another group who realize they are addicts and are able to quit solo +/- some varenicline. Both groups are goal oriented and motivated, it's just that only one of those groups actually has the goal of quitting. I'll bet you see more of the former group, who haven't admitted to themselves that they can't quit/need help, and I can totally imagine those ones being tough to break! Just remember that we are people too, and we are all different :)
It is actually because Med professionals tend to be know it alls. However, what ever the reason may be, it is all good.
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Almost 2 weeks in, the last week has gone a lot faster than the first did!
I realized the cravings for me are the worst late at night, when I tend to ruminate on things/get more anxious. So working out at night every night has been perfect for me, I always shower and pass out right after. I have been walking/running 4-5 miles a night and lifting every other day.
I used to be a semi gym rat before I started dipping. I was 170 lbs. After a couple years of dipping and laziness I was pushing 200, not the worst 200 possible but definitely not all lean body mass! Just weighed myself today, I am at 193, so starting to get back down there! My goal is 180 lbs at the rate of 0.75-1 lbs lost per week. I will keep you guys updated!
Also I intend to get my blood pressure checked soon, I used to run 130-140/70-80 while dipping. Curious to see what it's at now.
Anyways, good things generally. Keeping my guard up today, tomorrow, and every day. Thank you KTC for the continued support, I hope you are all having a great week!
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Awesome stuff Medquit. Keep it up man you are rockin it! Journal how you are doing everytime you think about it. Not only will help anyone else that comes in here looking for an excuse to flush that poison but it will help remind you how much this whole damn process sucks and keep you committed to never posting another day 1! Anytime you have a crave you can come back and re-read what you were going through and say NAFAR.
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Would like someone to talk me out of this please.
I really want to go buy nicotine gum. I know it's my withdrawal/decreased concentration and memory making me want it because I used to be very productive while dipping (it up regulates memory and stuff) and I'm under stress to memorize 10-14 hrs of shit every day right now
I did a bunch of reading and NRT alone is less addictive because it doesn't have continine, nornicotine etc. Some people use it as a "nootropic."
I'm just not sure if this is the logical me just wanting to be focused or the addict me wanting more nicotine. I need to hear a "no you idiot" from you guys I think.
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Would like someone to talk me out of this please.
I really want to go buy nicotine gum. I know it's my withdrawal/decreased concentration and memory making me want it because I used to be very productive while dipping (it up regulates memory and stuff) and I'm under stress to memorize 10-14 hrs of shit every day right now
I did a bunch of reading and NRT alone is less addictive because it doesn't have continine, nornicotine etc. Some people use it as a "nootropic."
I'm just not sure if this is the logical me just wanting to be focused or the addict me wanting more nicotine. I need to hear a "no you idiot" from you guys I think.
Just to reiterate what has already been discussed. No you idiot, don't fucking do it. You aren't going to get the OK from anyone here.
You are smart enough to know that isn't the right answer and no one here is dumb enough to tell you it is.
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Anyone who reads this as a guest, this site can be a lifesaver. I spent the last 2 weeks building a big safety net and I'm glad I did, I fucking needed it today. Spent the last 30 min texting with 5 different people all explaining to me how wrong I am in every way possible. I personally couldn't have gotten this far (on my first try anyways) without these guys. Thanks for helping me through a rough patch guys, I'm looking forward to returning the favor.
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Anyone who reads this as a guest, this site can be a lifesaver. I spent the last 2 weeks building a big safety net and I'm glad I did, I fucking needed it today. Spent the last 30 min texting with 5 different people all explaining to me how wrong I am in every way possible. I personally couldn't have gotten this far (on my first try anyways) without these guys. Thanks for helping me through a rough patch guys, I'm looking forward to returning the favor.
Don't give yourself an 'out' by calling this your first try.
This isn't about trying it's about doing. If you are calling this your first try or thinking about how this is your first try then you are setting yourself up for failure.
This should be about your mission to rid yourself of that nasty shit. Do you really want to leave that door open and go through quitting again?
Med- I know you are having a tough time of it today and you did good by reaching out. Don't leave that door open.
This is a quit from nic, not a stop, not a break, not a vacation from it- this is about quitting.
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Didn't mean to call it that, was more saying that if I didn't have KTC then it would have probably ended up being a "first try." I'm in it for the long haul man, or I wouldn't be here.
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Good job, dude. Don't break weak on the bit(h! Proud to be quit with you!
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Med... You lean on drugs or you lean on relationships.
You did good today sir.
Life will get hard tomorrow.
It will also get good.
Drugs are not an option to fight or celebrate.
Drugs are a lie.
They kill people physically and emotionally.
You never needed them before.
You will never need them again.
Learn to live without medicating.
Chase you name MQ.
I Quit with you today.
It gets alot better........ Lots
EDD ODAAT
Rawls 549
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Would like someone to talk me out of this please.
I really want to go buy nicotine gum. I know it's my withdrawal/decreased concentration and memory making me want it because I used to be very productive while dipping (it up regulates memory and stuff) and I'm under stress to memorize 10-14 hrs of shit every day right now
I did a bunch of reading and NRT alone is less addictive because it doesn't have continine, nornicotine etc. Some people use it as a "nootropic."
I'm just not sure if this is the logical me just wanting to be focused or the addict me wanting more nicotine. I need to hear a "no you idiot" from you guys I think.
Just to reiterate what has already been discussed. No you idiot, don't fucking do it. You aren't going to get the OK from anyone here.
You are smart enough to know that isn't the right answer and no one here is dumb enough to tell you it is.
Through sharing the experience here, we all learn from what other's go through. A great scenario shared here that we can keep in our toolbox to beat back the nic bit(h. Thanks for the share Med and great recovery.
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Would like someone to talk me out of this please.
I really want to go buy nicotine gum. I know it's my withdrawal/decreased concentration and memory making me want it because I used to be very productive while dipping (it up regulates memory and stuff) and I'm under stress to memorize 10-14 hrs of shit every day right now
I did a bunch of reading and NRT alone is less addictive because it doesn't have continine, nornicotine etc. Some people use it as a "nootropic."
I'm just not sure if this is the logical me just wanting to be focused or the addict me wanting more nicotine. I need to hear a "no you idiot" from you guys I think.
Just to reiterate what has already been discussed. No you idiot, don't fucking do it. You aren't going to get the OK from anyone here.
You are smart enough to know that isn't the right answer and no one here is dumb enough to tell you it is.
Through sharing the experience here, we all learn from what other's go through. A great scenario shared here that we can keep in our toolbox to beat back the nic bit(h. Thanks for the share Med and great recovery.
Since you asked, No you idiot!
I came into this site wearing a patch, and was soundly asked to leave until I manned up. It took me 30 days to man up, and guess what? I got to do withdrawals twice, I'm an idiot.
You already have a great start, and I promise it gets better, so much so you'll wonder why you ever started dipping in the first place.
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MedQuit, first thanks for the kind words you posted on my intro page yesterday. I now have my HOF speech posted so if you get a chance, check it out. Quitting this shit is hard and quitting while in medical school has to be brutal but you can do this man. I have read your progression on this thread and you clearly are on your way to being nic free for life. You have the right idea in reaching out for help and advice as you need it. I am always available to help in any way I can, so feel free to PM me. Hang in there it does get better. Freedom from nicotine is incredible.
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Would like someone to talk me out of this please.
I really want to go buy nicotine gum. I know it's my withdrawal/decreased concentration and memory making me want it because I used to be very productive while dipping (it up regulates memory and stuff) and I'm under stress to memorize 10-14 hrs of shit every day right now
I did a bunch of reading and NRT alone is less addictive because it doesn't have continine, nornicotine etc. Some people use it as a "nootropic."
I'm just not sure if this is the logical me just wanting to be focused or the addict me wanting more nicotine. I need to hear a "no you idiot" from you guys I think.
Hey Med! I am just reading this now and thought I would chime in on NRT. I know you are past this for the time being but here's my personal experience... I used NRT gum to stop dipping years ago.. I then became totally addicted to the gum.. After chewing the gum for years and my jaw getting sore I switched to NRT lozenges... This went on for YEARS!! Between the gum and the lozenges I ended up with some dental issues.. I was just as addicted to the NRT as I was the dip and heaters when I smoked.. It's a viscous circle and I would TOTALLY advise against ANY NRT.. I ended up going back to the dip because for some dame reason in my head I thought it was better than destroying my teeth.. That just makes no F'ing sense but that's what I did... Just not worth it in my book..
So, if this happens again please think about my experience and leave it alone! I have followed your intro and you have made my quit stronger!!
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Wow haha what a pleasant surprise to see all these posts here!
I know the NRT thing was just me trying to convince myself it was okay to give up (lies!), and I think that happened yesterday because around 2 weeks was usually where I used to say "ok I have control I can dip now because I know I can go without it."
Breaking through the wall here I am finally in uncharted water, and I think the anxiety about that along with my other life stressors contributed to my mental frameshift. Thank you all for shifting me back.
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Over 100 hours of quit. I made my drive yesterday with no nic and a ton of chewing gum, thanks for the tips guys.
Today is the best I've felt so far. Minimal headaches, still a little foggy, but this is the first day I've been able to even wrap my mind around being out of the suck. Went outside this morning with a cup of coffee and just thought about how thankful I am to have all I do in my life, including all of you.
Looking back, there were definitely moments this weekend when I subconsciously doubted my ability to succeed with this quit. If I continue to feel as good as I feel now though, I know it's possible. The way I feel now beats anything I felt with nicotine, and I don't even think I'm 100% clear of withdrawal symptoms yet. I am very stressed right now with life and school stuff and I am learning to cope using exercise, meditation and optimism... not nicotine. If I can do it now, I can do it forever.
Future self, never forget the suck.
You are in a good spot. Forewarning, good spots can be just as powerful of a trigger as stress and bad spots. One brother told me to keep my head on a swivel. I did and still do because of that reason. Not saying live a life of paranoia. by no means. Just saying that complacency is a killer.
Side note. You are doing great! I am surprised by your success. And again, no offense. Like I said Med professionals tend to be the hardest. I say that as a counselor and having Doctors and male nurses as clients in the past I know how bull headed you guys are. Keep surprising me! Very proud to be quit with you!
Just for today, Self.
Hey kub, nice post, it definitely stuck out to me.
I have definitely recognized about my self that even when I'm feeling great, that can be the moment I desire a pinch. It might be some sort of self-destructive tendency... I'm not exactly sure, but its happened plenty of times over my life. For example back in college heres a scenario: Wake up on a Saturday morning, haven't dipped or had alcohol in like 2 weeks. Ate super healthy all week, chicken breasts, veggies, greens, etc. Girlfriend out of town for the weekend. So I feel fantastic... promptly go out and grab a pizza, 12 pack of beer, and 2 cans of dip (cause of course can't decide between straight and wintergreen so I get both) and sit at home playing video games drinking and dipping all day.
Be on your guard even when you're feeling great!!
-
Over 100 hours of quit. I made my drive yesterday with no nic and a ton of chewing gum, thanks for the tips guys.
Today is the best I've felt so far. Minimal headaches, still a little foggy, but this is the first day I've been able to even wrap my mind around being out of the suck. Went outside this morning with a cup of coffee and just thought about how thankful I am to have all I do in my life, including all of you.
Looking back, there were definitely moments this weekend when I subconsciously doubted my ability to succeed with this quit. If I continue to feel as good as I feel now though, I know it's possible. The way I feel now beats anything I felt with nicotine, and I don't even think I'm 100% clear of withdrawal symptoms yet. I am very stressed right now with life and school stuff and I am learning to cope using exercise, meditation and optimism... not nicotine. If I can do it now, I can do it forever.
Future self, never forget the suck.
You are in a good spot. Forewarning, good spots can be just as powerful of a trigger as stress and bad spots. One brother told me to keep my head on a swivel. I did and still do because of that reason. Not saying live a life of paranoia. by no means. Just saying that complacency is a killer.
Side note. You are doing great! I am surprised by your success. And again, no offense. Like I said Med professionals tend to be the hardest. I say that as a counselor and having Doctors and male nurses as clients in the past I know how bull headed you guys are. Keep surprising me! Very proud to be quit with you!
Just for today, Self.
Hey kub, nice post, it definitely stuck out to me.
I have definitely recognized about my self that even when I'm feeling great, that can be the moment I desire a pinch. It might be some sort of self-destructive tendency... I'm not exactly sure, but its happened plenty of times over my life. For example back in college heres a scenario: Wake up on a Saturday morning, haven't dipped or had alcohol in like 2 weeks. Ate super healthy all week, chicken breasts, veggies, greens, etc. Girlfriend out of town for the weekend. So I feel fantastic... promptly go out and grab a pizza, 12 pack of beer, and 2 cans of dip (cause of course can't decide between straight and wintergreen so I get both) and sit at home playing video games drinking and dipping all day.
Be on your guard even when you're feeling great!!
The smarter you are, the more vulnerable you are. Why? Because you can argue with the nic bitch.
Nic bitch wins all arguments.
Best survival tool: learn to run.
One focking day at a time.
You got this, medquit. We all have this. Together.
-
Wow haha what a pleasant surprise to see all these posts here!
I know the NRT thing was just me trying to convince myself it was okay to give up (lies!), and I think that happened yesterday because around 2 weeks was usually where I used to say "ok I have control I can dip now because I know I can go without it."
Breaking through the wall here I am finally in uncharted water, and I think the anxiety about that along with my other life stressors contributed to my mental frameshift. Thank you all for shifting me back.
There is a lot of power in quitting with others. I'm a 35 year addict and I certainly quit for long periods of time off and on. Saying goodbye to nicotine for good is really difficult You can do it, there are people here who have quit for years and still post roll every day. Don't get bogged down in beating "the suck". Your brain will repair eventually. Just don't ever forget what you went through to get past "the suck". In the end no one ever says that they regret quitting nicotine.
I quit with you today!
-
Wow haha what a pleasant surprise to see all these posts here!
I know the NRT thing was just me trying to convince myself it was okay to give up (lies!), and I think that happened yesterday because around 2 weeks was usually where I used to say "ok I have control I can dip now because I know I can go without it."
Breaking through the wall here I am finally in uncharted water, and I think the anxiety about that along with my other life stressors contributed to my mental frameshift. Thank you all for shifting me back.
There is a lot of power in quitting with others. I'm a 35 year addict and I certainly quit for long periods of time off and on. Saying goodbye to nicotine for good is really difficult You can do it, there are people here who have quit for years and still post roll every day. Don't get bogged down in beating "the suck". Your brain will repair eventually. Just don't ever forget what you went through to get past "the suck". In the end no one ever says that they regret quitting nicotine.
I quit with you today!
".... no one ever says they regretted quitting nicotine" That is GOLD right there.
I'm in same boat as stranger, close to 30 year dipper on and off,mostly ON. Quit several times for long stretches. This is different. ACCOUNTABILITY, BROTHERHOOD, SUCCESS.
Small victories MED. Small victories start with the daily quit promise.
At 278+ days, I am still quitting one day at a time. I realized that:
golf, shoveling snow, painting a room, fixing a bike, cutting the grass
driving, going to vegas, .... the list will go on and on
could all be done without a dip.
278+ days ago i would have said you were crazy, that i needed a chew for these things.
You'll get there. the ODAAT days begin to add up.
Proud to quit with you today.!
-
My Depression, My Addiction
[This may sound a bit like a HoF speech, and I suppose it is, just not for nicotine]
It occurred to me today that before joining KTC I had been ready to quit for a long time. I know how that sounds, but I truly did not want to use nicotine, and using it actually caused me a great deal of anxiety, but I just couldn't let myself quit.
Before I get into what I mean by that, for those of you who aren't aware, the rate of physician suicide is extremely high. 400 doctors, the size of an entire medical school, kill themselves every year in America. That is a rate 2-4x the national average. It would mean a great deal to me if, when you have the time, you read an article or two about the subject. Here are a few that stood out to me:
http://www.slate.com/articles/health_an ... _fear.html (http://www.slate.com/articles/health_and_science/medical_examiner/2014/09/suicide_in_medical_doctors_physicians_suffer_from_stress_self_doubt_fear.html)
https://afsp.org/our-work/education/phy ... revention/ (https://afsp.org/our-work/education/physician-medical-student-depression-suicide-prevention/)
http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2 ... ut-it.html (http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2015/03/23/american-doctors-are-killing-themselves-and-no-one-is-talking-about-it.html)
The medical profession is often glorified but in reality it's much like quitting. Some days you do something right, even something small, and feel like you made a real difference in someone's life. Part of you starts to think that maybe every day will be that way, and then suddenly you are doing chest compressions and watching life leave your patient's eyes as he take his last agonal breaths, and even though you and the 15 other people in the room did everything you possible could it absolutely destroys you.
I have not yet had the privilege of understanding what it means to have a life fully in my hands, but I have already experienced some of the emotional roller coaster that comes with such a responsibility. My worst moments were almost exclusively in the throes of a major depressive episode. If you aren't familiar with what major depressive disorder is, you should look it up and/or just be thankful that you haven't met the beast first-hand, because for me quitting at its worst moments is what major depression is like 24/7. What makes depression so much worse, in my opinion, is that you don't have something to blame like nicotine. Instead, depression makes you blame yourself.
I did just that, and my self-image went to absolute shit. It stayed that way even once the SSRIs started doing their job. I couldn't make relationships work, even with the most selfless of women (a busy med student's dream) because I didn't feel I deserved to have one. I stopped lifting because I just didn't feel like going anymore (anhedonia/loss of interest in activities from which one once derived pleasure). My diet tanked. I developed insomnia, which made me miss classes, which caused me to develop an anxiety about accidentally sleeping through classes, which worsened my insomnia.
I couldn't quit nicotine because I felt like I didn't deserve to quit. I was fine being addicted to that shit because I viewed myself, despite what I have accomplished in life and all that I have to be thankful for, as largely a failed human being. I could not stack up to my classmates intelligence-wise, my friends were more in shape than I was, normal people didn't have the sleep/diet/exercise issues I did, etc. Depression made me feel like nicotine was God's way of patting me on the back... "It's okay med, you fucked your life up but we have this tin to help you deal with that." If you look back to my Day 1, you'll see that I still firmly believed just a couple of weeks ago that nicotine was merely a study crutch gone wrong, that I didn't truly need it and that it sort of just seeped into my life. Now that I have some distance from it, however, I realize I have been lying to myself. I needed it. I thought it was the only "good thing" I had in my life. Many of you would say "what about family and friends?" Depression takes them away from you. It convinces you that you are not loved by your family, that you have no true friends, and that you are on your own. It isolates you and forces you to marinate in your own toxic thoughts. Only now that I am able to look back do I understand how vulnerable I was to turning to one substance or another to soothe my aching soul.
Mental illness is an awful thing. I do deserve to quit. We all do. Nicotine wasn't something I needed, just something I could use to punish myself further. With my history of depression, I don't think I will ever be truly safe from nicotine. It is a constant threat and needs to be treated as such. If the day comes when I find myself once again walling myself off from everyone I care about, I sincerely believe that the bonds I've formed here already will be strong enough to break those walls down even if I'm fighting to keep them up the whole time. KTC necessitates accountability, accountability necessitates interaction, and interaction is the key to beating depression.
On a happier note, the contrast between who I was when I was that shadow of a person and who I am now is stark. Since I posted Day 1:
- I've lost 5 lbs.
- I work out almost every day, and it's because I WANT to.
- I'm sleeping 7-9 hours a night.
- I went on a first date this weekend. We are going out again within the next week.
Thank you to KingNothing, Grievous_Angel, RDB1972 and ChristopherJ for getting me started here... I wouldn't have made it without you guys. Thank you to everyone here for helping me quit chewing, and for helping me learn to love myself again. I've missed it.
-
My Depression, My Addiction
[This may sound a bit like a HoF speech, and I suppose it is, just not for nicotine]
It occurred to me today that before joining KTC I had been ready to quit for a long time. I know how that sounds, but I truly did not want to use nicotine, and using it actually caused me a great deal of anxiety, but I just couldn't let myself quit.
Before I get into what I mean by that, for those of you who aren't aware, the rate of physician suicide is extremely high. 400 doctors, the size of an entire medical school, kill themselves every year in America. That is a rate 2-4x the national average. It would mean a great deal to me if, when you have the time, you read an article or two about the subject. Here are a few that stood out to me:
http://www.slate.com/articles/health_an ... _fear.html (http://www.slate.com/articles/health_and_science/medical_examiner/2014/09/suicide_in_medical_doctors_physicians_suffer_from_stress_self_doubt_fear.html)
https://afsp.org/our-work/education/phy ... revention/ (https://afsp.org/our-work/education/physician-medical-student-depression-suicide-prevention/)
http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2 ... ut-it.html (http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2015/03/23/american-doctors-are-killing-themselves-and-no-one-is-talking-about-it.html)
The medical profession is often glorified but in reality it's much like quitting. Some days you do something right, even something small, and feel like you made a real difference in someone's life. Part of you starts to think that maybe every day will be that way, and then suddenly you are doing chest compressions and watching life leave your patient's eyes as he take his last agonal breaths, and even though you and the 15 other people in the room did everything you possible could it absolutely destroys you.
I have not yet had the privilege of understanding what it means to have a life fully in my hands, but I have already experienced some of the emotional roller coaster that comes with such a responsibility. My worst moments were almost exclusively in the throes of a major depressive episode. If you aren't familiar with what major depressive disorder is, you should look it up and/or just be thankful that you haven't met the beast first-hand, because for me quitting at its worst moments is what major depression is like 24/7. What makes depression so much worse, in my opinion, is that you don't have something to blame like nicotine. Instead, depression makes you blame yourself.
I did just that, and my self-image went to absolute shit. It stayed that way even once the SSRIs started doing their job. I couldn't make relationships work, even with the most selfless of women (a busy med student's dream) because I didn't feel I deserved to have one. I stopped lifting because I just didn't feel like going anymore (anhedonia/loss of interest in activities from which one once derived pleasure). My diet tanked. I developed insomnia, which made me miss classes, which caused me to develop an anxiety about accidentally sleeping through classes, which worsened my insomnia.
I couldn't quit nicotine because I felt like I didn't deserve to quit. I was fine being addicted to that shit because I viewed myself, despite what I have accomplished in life and all that I have to be thankful for, as largely a failed human being. I could not stack up to my classmates intelligence-wise, my friends were more in shape than I was, normal people didn't have the sleep/diet/exercise issues I did, etc. Depression made me feel like nicotine was God's way of patting me on the back... "It's okay med, you fucked your life up but we have this tin to help you deal with that." If you look back to my Day 1, you'll see that I still firmly believed just a couple of weeks ago that nicotine was merely a study crutch gone wrong, that I didn't truly need it and that it sort of just seeped into my life. Now that I have some distance from it, however, I realize I have been lying to myself. I needed it. I thought it was the only "good thing" I had in my life. Many of you would say "what about family and friends?" Depression takes them away from you. It convinces you that you are not loved by your family, that you have no true friends, and that you are on your own. It isolates you and forces you to marinate in your own toxic thoughts. Only now that I am able to look back do I understand how vulnerable I was to turning to one substance or another to soothe my aching soul.
Mental illness is an awful thing. I do deserve to quit. We all do. Nicotine wasn't something I needed, just something I could use to punish myself further. With my history of depression, I don't think I will ever be truly safe from nicotine. It is a constant threat and needs to be treated as such. If the day comes when I find myself once again walling myself off from everyone I care about, I sincerely believe that the bonds I've formed here already will be strong enough to break those walls down even if I'm fighting to keep them up the whole time. KTC necessitates accountability, accountability necessitates interaction, and interaction is the key to beating depression.
On a happier note, the contrast between who I was when I was that shadow of a person and who I am now is stark. Since I posted Day 1:
- I've lost 5 lbs.
- I work out almost every day, and it's because I WANT to.
- I'm sleeping 7-9 hours a night.
- I went on a first date this weekend. We are going out again within the next week.
Thank you to KingNothing, Grievous_Angel, RDB1972 and ChristopherJ for getting me started here... I wouldn't have made it without you guys. Thank you to everyone here for helping me quit chewing, and for helping me learn to love myself again. I've missed it.
Hey Med! I sit here in front of my keyboard and I'm a bit unsure what to type or how to respond! Couple of thoughts... From what I've seen (or read) from you you seem like a awesome dude! I mean that.. I have great respect for what you are doing in your life and feel this quit will be a game changer for you!! I see much brighter days ahead for you!! Take care of yourself!!
-
My Depression, My Addiction
[This may sound a bit like a HoF speech, and I suppose it is, just not for nicotine]
It occurred to me today that before joining KTC I had been ready to quit for a long time. I know how that sounds, but I truly did not want to use nicotine, and using it actually caused me a great deal of anxiety, but I just couldn't let myself quit.
Before I get into what I mean by that, for those of you who aren't aware, the rate of physician suicide is extremely high. 400 doctors, the size of an entire medical school, kill themselves every year in America. That is a rate 2-4x the national average. It would mean a great deal to me if, when you have the time, you read an article or two about the subject. Here are a few that stood out to me:
http://www.slate.com/articles/health_an ... _fear.html (http://www.slate.com/articles/health_and_science/medical_examiner/2014/09/suicide_in_medical_doctors_physicians_suffer_from_stress_self_doubt_fear.html)
https://afsp.org/our-work/education/phy ... revention/ (https://afsp.org/our-work/education/physician-medical-student-depression-suicide-prevention/)
http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2 ... ut-it.html (http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2015/03/23/american-doctors-are-killing-themselves-and-no-one-is-talking-about-it.html)
The medical profession is often glorified but in reality it's much like quitting. Some days you do something right, even something small, and feel like you made a real difference in someone's life. Part of you starts to think that maybe every day will be that way, and then suddenly you are doing chest compressions and watching life leave your patient's eyes as he take his last agonal breaths, and even though you and the 15 other people in the room did everything you possible could it absolutely destroys you.
I have not yet had the privilege of understanding what it means to have a life fully in my hands, but I have already experienced some of the emotional roller coaster that comes with such a responsibility. My worst moments were almost exclusively in the throes of a major depressive episode. If you aren't familiar with what major depressive disorder is, you should look it up and/or just be thankful that you haven't met the beast first-hand, because for me quitting at its worst moments is what major depression is like 24/7. What makes depression so much worse, in my opinion, is that you don't have something to blame like nicotine. Instead, depression makes you blame yourself.
I did just that, and my self-image went to absolute shit. It stayed that way even once the SSRIs started doing their job. I couldn't make relationships work, even with the most selfless of women (a busy med student's dream) because I didn't feel I deserved to have one. I stopped lifting because I just didn't feel like going anymore (anhedonia/loss of interest in activities from which one once derived pleasure). My diet tanked. I developed insomnia, which made me miss classes, which caused me to develop an anxiety about accidentally sleeping through classes, which worsened my insomnia.
I couldn't quit nicotine because I felt like I didn't deserve to quit. I was fine being addicted to that shit because I viewed myself, despite what I have accomplished in life and all that I have to be thankful for, as largely a failed human being. I could not stack up to my classmates intelligence-wise, my friends were more in shape than I was, normal people didn't have the sleep/diet/exercise issues I did, etc. Depression made me feel like nicotine was God's way of patting me on the back... "It's okay med, you fucked your life up but we have this tin to help you deal with that." If you look back to my Day 1, you'll see that I still firmly believed just a couple of weeks ago that nicotine was merely a study crutch gone wrong, that I didn't truly need it and that it sort of just seeped into my life. Now that I have some distance from it, however, I realize I have been lying to myself. I needed it. I thought it was the only "good thing" I had in my life. Many of you would say "what about family and friends?" Depression takes them away from you. It convinces you that you are not loved by your family, that you have no true friends, and that you are on your own. It isolates you and forces you to marinate in your own toxic thoughts. Only now that I am able to look back do I understand how vulnerable I was to turning to one substance or another to soothe my aching soul.
Mental illness is an awful thing. I do deserve to quit. We all do. Nicotine wasn't something I needed, just something I could use to punish myself further. With my history of depression, I don't think I will ever be truly safe from nicotine. It is a constant threat and needs to be treated as such. If the day comes when I find myself once again walling myself off from everyone I care about, I sincerely believe that the bonds I've formed here already will be strong enough to break those walls down even if I'm fighting to keep them up the whole time. KTC necessitates accountability, accountability necessitates interaction, and interaction is the key to beating depression.
On a happier note, the contrast between who I was when I was that shadow of a person and who I am now is stark. Since I posted Day 1:
- I've lost 5 lbs.
- I work out almost every day, and it's because I WANT to.
- I'm sleeping 7-9 hours a night.
- I went on a first date this weekend. We are going out again within the next week.
Thank you to KingNothing, Grievous_Angel, RDB1972 and ChristopherJ for getting me started here... I wouldn't have made it without you guys. Thank you to everyone here for helping me quit chewing, and for helping me learn to love myself again. I've missed it.
Hey Med! I sit here in front of my keyboard and I'm a bit unsure what to type or how to respond! Couple of thoughts... From what I've seen (or read) from you you seem like a awesome dude! I mean that.. I have great respect for what you are doing in your life and feel this quit will be a game changer for you!! I see much brighter days ahead for you!! Take care of yourself!!
Hey Med, this is really moving, honest and something that I know that I can relate to. There isn't a single one of us who is ONLY struggling with nicotine.
Stay focused and keep moving forward.
-
My Depression, My Addiction
[This may sound a bit like a HoF speech, and I suppose it is, just not for nicotine]
It occurred to me today that before joining KTC I had been ready to quit for a long time. I know how that sounds, but I truly did not want to use nicotine, and using it actually caused me a great deal of anxiety, but I just couldn't let myself quit.
Before I get into what I mean by that, for those of you who aren't aware, the rate of physician suicide is extremely high. 400 doctors, the size of an entire medical school, kill themselves every year in America. That is a rate 2-4x the national average. It would mean a great deal to me if, when you have the time, you read an article or two about the subject. Here are a few that stood out to me:
http://www.slate.com/articles/health_an ... _fear.html (http://www.slate.com/articles/health_and_science/medical_examiner/2014/09/suicide_in_medical_doctors_physicians_suffer_from_stress_self_doubt_fear.html)
https://afsp.org/our-work/education/phy ... revention/ (https://afsp.org/our-work/education/physician-medical-student-depression-suicide-prevention/)
http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2 ... ut-it.html (http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2015/03/23/american-doctors-are-killing-themselves-and-no-one-is-talking-about-it.html)
The medical profession is often glorified but in reality it's much like quitting. Some days you do something right, even something small, and feel like you made a real difference in someone's life. Part of you starts to think that maybe every day will be that way, and then suddenly you are doing chest compressions and watching life leave your patient's eyes as he take his last agonal breaths, and even though you and the 15 other people in the room did everything you possible could it absolutely destroys you.
I have not yet had the privilege of understanding what it means to have a life fully in my hands, but I have already experienced some of the emotional roller coaster that comes with such a responsibility. My worst moments were almost exclusively in the throes of a major depressive episode. If you aren't familiar with what major depressive disorder is, you should look it up and/or just be thankful that you haven't met the beast first-hand, because for me quitting at its worst moments is what major depression is like 24/7. What makes depression so much worse, in my opinion, is that you don't have something to blame like nicotine. Instead, depression makes you blame yourself.
I did just that, and my self-image went to absolute shit. It stayed that way even once the SSRIs started doing their job. I couldn't make relationships work, even with the most selfless of women (a busy med student's dream) because I didn't feel I deserved to have one. I stopped lifting because I just didn't feel like going anymore (anhedonia/loss of interest in activities from which one once derived pleasure). My diet tanked. I developed insomnia, which made me miss classes, which caused me to develop an anxiety about accidentally sleeping through classes, which worsened my insomnia.
I couldn't quit nicotine because I felt like I didn't deserve to quit. I was fine being addicted to that shit because I viewed myself, despite what I have accomplished in life and all that I have to be thankful for, as largely a failed human being. I could not stack up to my classmates intelligence-wise, my friends were more in shape than I was, normal people didn't have the sleep/diet/exercise issues I did, etc. Depression made me feel like nicotine was God's way of patting me on the back... "It's okay med, you fucked your life up but we have this tin to help you deal with that." If you look back to my Day 1, you'll see that I still firmly believed just a couple of weeks ago that nicotine was merely a study crutch gone wrong, that I didn't truly need it and that it sort of just seeped into my life. Now that I have some distance from it, however, I realize I have been lying to myself. I needed it. I thought it was the only "good thing" I had in my life. Many of you would say "what about family and friends?" Depression takes them away from you. It convinces you that you are not loved by your family, that you have no true friends, and that you are on your own. It isolates you and forces you to marinate in your own toxic thoughts. Only now that I am able to look back do I understand how vulnerable I was to turning to one substance or another to soothe my aching soul.
Mental illness is an awful thing. I do deserve to quit. We all do. Nicotine wasn't something I needed, just something I could use to punish myself further. With my history of depression, I don't think I will ever be truly safe from nicotine. It is a constant threat and needs to be treated as such. If the day comes when I find myself once again walling myself off from everyone I care about, I sincerely believe that the bonds I've formed here already will be strong enough to break those walls down even if I'm fighting to keep them up the whole time. KTC necessitates accountability, accountability necessitates interaction, and interaction is the key to beating depression.
On a happier note, the contrast between who I was when I was that shadow of a person and who I am now is stark. Since I posted Day 1:
- I've lost 5 lbs.
- I work out almost every day, and it's because I WANT to.
- I'm sleeping 7-9 hours a night.
- I went on a first date this weekend. We are going out again within the next week.
Thank you to KingNothing, Grievous_Angel, RDB1972 and ChristopherJ for getting me started here... I wouldn't have made it without you guys. Thank you to everyone here for helping me quit chewing, and for helping me learn to love myself again. I've missed it.
Hey Med! I sit here in front of my keyboard and I'm a bit unsure what to type or how to respond! Couple of thoughts... From what I've seen (or read) from you you seem like a awesome dude! I mean that.. I have great respect for what you are doing in your life and feel this quit will be a game changer for you!! I see much brighter days ahead for you!! Take care of yourself!!
Med, I know that I have struggled with the QUIT and during the time heading into my QUIT, it can be easy to get down on myself. Let's slay this nic bitch and be stronger and more confident for it. I too, appreciate your openness and honesty to the Brother/Sisterhood here. You were one of the first to reach out to me when I first posted and definitely feel like we are vested in this quit together. Proud to be quitting with ya! You've got my digits, I've got your back!
-
My diagnosis is Major Depression (Moderate), although some days don't seem moderate. Quitting tobacco has definitely helped.
Looks as if you're stepping up as one of the leaders in August. Thanks for that.
Still proud to quit with you.
-
My Depression, My Addiction
[This may sound a bit like a HoF speech, and I suppose it is, just not for nicotine]
It occurred to me today that before joining KTC I had been ready to quit for a long time. I know how that sounds, but I truly did not want to use nicotine, and using it actually caused me a great deal of anxiety, but I just couldn't let myself quit.
Before I get into what I mean by that, for those of you who aren't aware, the rate of physician suicide is extremely high. 400 doctors, the size of an entire medical school, kill themselves every year in America. That is a rate 2-4x the national average. It would mean a great deal to me if, when you have the time, you read an article or two about the subject. Here are a few that stood out to me:
http://www.slate.com/articles/health_an ... _fear.html (http://www.slate.com/articles/health_and_science/medical_examiner/2014/09/suicide_in_medical_doctors_physicians_suffer_from_stress_self_doubt_fear.html)
https://afsp.org/our-work/education/phy ... revention/ (https://afsp.org/our-work/education/physician-medical-student-depression-suicide-prevention/)
http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2 ... ut-it.html (http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2015/03/23/american-doctors-are-killing-themselves-and-no-one-is-talking-about-it.html)
The medical profession is often glorified but in reality it's much like quitting. Some days you do something right, even something small, and feel like you made a real difference in someone's life. Part of you starts to think that maybe every day will be that way, and then suddenly you are doing chest compressions and watching life leave your patient's eyes as he take his last agonal breaths, and even though you and the 15 other people in the room did everything you possible could it absolutely destroys you.
I have not yet had the privilege of understanding what it means to have a life fully in my hands, but I have already experienced some of the emotional roller coaster that comes with such a responsibility. My worst moments were almost exclusively in the throes of a major depressive episode. If you aren't familiar with what major depressive disorder is, you should look it up and/or just be thankful that you haven't met the beast first-hand, because for me quitting at its worst moments is what major depression is like 24/7. What makes depression so much worse, in my opinion, is that you don't have something to blame like nicotine. Instead, depression makes you blame yourself.
I did just that, and my self-image went to absolute shit. It stayed that way even once the SSRIs started doing their job. I couldn't make relationships work, even with the most selfless of women (a busy med student's dream) because I didn't feel I deserved to have one. I stopped lifting because I just didn't feel like going anymore (anhedonia/loss of interest in activities from which one once derived pleasure). My diet tanked. I developed insomnia, which made me miss classes, which caused me to develop an anxiety about accidentally sleeping through classes, which worsened my insomnia.
I couldn't quit nicotine because I felt like I didn't deserve to quit. I was fine being addicted to that shit because I viewed myself, despite what I have accomplished in life and all that I have to be thankful for, as largely a failed human being. I could not stack up to my classmates intelligence-wise, my friends were more in shape than I was, normal people didn't have the sleep/diet/exercise issues I did, etc. Depression made me feel like nicotine was God's way of patting me on the back... "It's okay med, you fucked your life up but we have this tin to help you deal with that." If you look back to my Day 1, you'll see that I still firmly believed just a couple of weeks ago that nicotine was merely a study crutch gone wrong, that I didn't truly need it and that it sort of just seeped into my life. Now that I have some distance from it, however, I realize I have been lying to myself. I needed it. I thought it was the only "good thing" I had in my life. Many of you would say "what about family and friends?" Depression takes them away from you. It convinces you that you are not loved by your family, that you have no true friends, and that you are on your own. It isolates you and forces you to marinate in your own toxic thoughts. Only now that I am able to look back do I understand how vulnerable I was to turning to one substance or another to soothe my aching soul.
Mental illness is an awful thing. I do deserve to quit. We all do. Nicotine wasn't something I needed, just something I could use to punish myself further. With my history of depression, I don't think I will ever be truly safe from nicotine. It is a constant threat and needs to be treated as such. If the day comes when I find myself once again walling myself off from everyone I care about, I sincerely believe that the bonds I've formed here already will be strong enough to break those walls down even if I'm fighting to keep them up the whole time. KTC necessitates accountability, accountability necessitates interaction, and interaction is the key to beating depression.
On a happier note, the contrast between who I was when I was that shadow of a person and who I am now is stark. Since I posted Day 1:
- I've lost 5 lbs.
- I work out almost every day, and it's because I WANT to.
- I'm sleeping 7-9 hours a night.
- I went on a first date this weekend. We are going out again within the next week.
Thank you to KingNothing, Grievous_Angel, RDB1972 and ChristopherJ for getting me started here... I wouldn't have made it without you guys. Thank you to everyone here for helping me quit chewing, and for helping me learn to love myself again. I've missed it.
Hey Med! I sit here in front of my keyboard and I'm a bit unsure what to type or how to respond! Couple of thoughts... From what I've seen (or read) from you you seem like a awesome dude! I mean that.. I have great respect for what you are doing in your life and feel this quit will be a game changer for you!! I see much brighter days ahead for you!! Take care of yourself!!
Med, I know that I have struggled with the QUIT and during the time heading into my QUIT, it can be easy to get down on myself. Let's slay this nic bitch and be stronger and more confident for it. I too, appreciate your openness and honesty to the Brother/Sisterhood here. You were one of the first to reach out to me when I first posted and definitely feel like we are vested in this quit together. Proud to be quitting with ya! You've got my digits, I've got your back!
You've got a lot of people here supporting you Med and you've helped others in August keep there quit going. Glad to have you in August contributing like you do. Keep posting in your intro- it's helping others ( it will help you).
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My Depression, My Addiction
[This may sound a bit like a HoF speech, and I suppose it is, just not for nicotine]
It occurred to me today that before joining KTC I had been ready to quit for a long time. I know how that sounds, but I truly did not want to use nicotine, and using it actually caused me a great deal of anxiety, but I just couldn't let myself quit.
Before I get into what I mean by that, for those of you who aren't aware, the rate of physician suicide is extremely high. 400 doctors, the size of an entire medical school, kill themselves every year in America. That is a rate 2-4x the national average. It would mean a great deal to me if, when you have the time, you read an article or two about the subject. Here are a few that stood out to me:
http://www.slate.com/articles/health_an ... _fear.html (http://www.slate.com/articles/health_and_science/medical_examiner/2014/09/suicide_in_medical_doctors_physicians_suffer_from_stress_self_doubt_fear.html)
https://afsp.org/our-work/education/phy ... revention/ (https://afsp.org/our-work/education/physician-medical-student-depression-suicide-prevention/)
http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2 ... ut-it.html (http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2015/03/23/american-doctors-are-killing-themselves-and-no-one-is-talking-about-it.html)
The medical profession is often glorified but in reality it's much like quitting. Some days you do something right, even something small, and feel like you made a real difference in someone's life. Part of you starts to think that maybe every day will be that way, and then suddenly you are doing chest compressions and watching life leave your patient's eyes as he take his last agonal breaths, and even though you and the 15 other people in the room did everything you possible could it absolutely destroys you.
I have not yet had the privilege of understanding what it means to have a life fully in my hands, but I have already experienced some of the emotional roller coaster that comes with such a responsibility. My worst moments were almost exclusively in the throes of a major depressive episode. If you aren't familiar with what major depressive disorder is, you should look it up and/or just be thankful that you haven't met the beast first-hand, because for me quitting at its worst moments is what major depression is like 24/7. What makes depression so much worse, in my opinion, is that you don't have something to blame like nicotine. Instead, depression makes you blame yourself.
I did just that, and my self-image went to absolute shit. It stayed that way even once the SSRIs started doing their job. I couldn't make relationships work, even with the most selfless of women (a busy med student's dream) because I didn't feel I deserved to have one. I stopped lifting because I just didn't feel like going anymore (anhedonia/loss of interest in activities from which one once derived pleasure). My diet tanked. I developed insomnia, which made me miss classes, which caused me to develop an anxiety about accidentally sleeping through classes, which worsened my insomnia.
I couldn't quit nicotine because I felt like I didn't deserve to quit. I was fine being addicted to that shit because I viewed myself, despite what I have accomplished in life and all that I have to be thankful for, as largely a failed human being. I could not stack up to my classmates intelligence-wise, my friends were more in shape than I was, normal people didn't have the sleep/diet/exercise issues I did, etc. Depression made me feel like nicotine was God's way of patting me on the back... "It's okay med, you fucked your life up but we have this tin to help you deal with that." If you look back to my Day 1, you'll see that I still firmly believed just a couple of weeks ago that nicotine was merely a study crutch gone wrong, that I didn't truly need it and that it sort of just seeped into my life. Now that I have some distance from it, however, I realize I have been lying to myself. I needed it. I thought it was the only "good thing" I had in my life. Many of you would say "what about family and friends?" Depression takes them away from you. It convinces you that you are not loved by your family, that you have no true friends, and that you are on your own. It isolates you and forces you to marinate in your own toxic thoughts. Only now that I am able to look back do I understand how vulnerable I was to turning to one substance or another to soothe my aching soul.
Mental illness is an awful thing. I do deserve to quit. We all do. Nicotine wasn't something I needed, just something I could use to punish myself further. With my history of depression, I don't think I will ever be truly safe from nicotine. It is a constant threat and needs to be treated as such. If the day comes when I find myself once again walling myself off from everyone I care about, I sincerely believe that the bonds I've formed here already will be strong enough to break those walls down even if I'm fighting to keep them up the whole time. KTC necessitates accountability, accountability necessitates interaction, and interaction is the key to beating depression.
On a happier note, the contrast between who I was when I was that shadow of a person and who I am now is stark. Since I posted Day 1:
- I've lost 5 lbs.
- I work out almost every day, and it's because I WANT to.
- I'm sleeping 7-9 hours a night.
- I went on a first date this weekend. We are going out again within the next week.
Thank you to KingNothing, Grievous_Angel, RDB1972 and ChristopherJ for getting me started here... I wouldn't have made it without you guys. Thank you to everyone here for helping me quit chewing, and for helping me learn to love myself again. I've missed it.
Hey Med! I sit here in front of my keyboard and I'm a bit unsure what to type or how to respond! Couple of thoughts... From what I've seen (or read) from you you seem like a awesome dude! I mean that.. I have great respect for what you are doing in your life and feel this quit will be a game changer for you!! I see much brighter days ahead for you!! Take care of yourself!!
Med, I know that I have struggled with the QUIT and during the time heading into my QUIT, it can be easy to get down on myself. Let's slay this nic bitch and be stronger and more confident for it. I too, appreciate your openness and honesty to the Brother/Sisterhood here. You were one of the first to reach out to me when I first posted and definitely feel like we are vested in this quit together. Proud to be quitting with ya! You've got my digits, I've got your back!
You've got a lot of people here supporting you Med and you've helped others in August keep there quit going. Glad to have you in August contributing like you do. Keep posting in your intro- it's helping others ( it will help you).
I wasn't aware of the risks of depression and the medical field. Thanks for sharing those stories - they helped me understand some issues with friends of mine. You describe some tough times that you worked though and what you have come to understand about yourself - including that nicotine is no help whatsoever and will actually make whatever issue even worse. We all have our battles and unfortunately, our brains our stained with nicotine addiction. KTC is here for us though, medquit, so lets keep winning!
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Reflections after 3 weeks
I don't really fully understand the role KTC is meant to play in one's quit just yet.
On the one hand, there are very specific expectations laid out for us. WUPP EDD. If you miss roll, you need to explain it. If you cave, an explanation is not enough, you need to go through a root-cause analysis and figure out how to prevent it from happening again. On the other hand, we are all so different from one another in too many ways to count. For one, each personal history of addiction is different, and I think that this difference and others directly impact how an individual receives KTC.
So what is the prototypical quit group SOP, then? Clearly caving is not acceptable, but short of that there is a gray area. What do you do when someone caves and really tries his/her best to answer the 3 questions multiple times, but it's just not in-depth or revelatory enough for anyone to be satisfied? What do you do when someone misses roll and doesn't offer up any sort of explanation? What do you do when someone misses roll, you manage to get a decent explanation out of them, but then they miss roll again later? What do you do when someone doesn't miss roll, but instead posts daily "status updates" (as they are mockingly called by the group)?
One of the first things I noticed when I started investing my time in KTC is the intensity. While the effectiveness of cold turkey vs NRT is heavily debated in social and professional circles, cold turkey is what KTC supports and it is undoubtedly the most intense quit method. The brotherhood and support here is intense. The hate for nicotine is intense.
Out of that intensity comes a strong sense of responsibility. I feel responsible for my quit, as well as my quit group's. So how, then, do I and everyone else in my group ensure mutual success? The problem is that KTC consists of four types of quitters:
Group 1: highly motivated to quit, highly invested in KTC
Group 2: highly motivated to quit, less invested in KTC
Group 3: less motivated to quit, highly invested in KTC
Group 4: less motivated to quit, less invested in KTC
Group 1 and 2 are obviously most likely to remain quit. The subsection of people in Group 1 who rely on KTC most heavily to stay quit (versus simply using KTC as a result of being quit; correlation doesn't necessarily equal causation here) as well as Group 3 may be negatively impacted by witnessing the lack of investment in KTC from Groups 2 and 4. Group 4 will likely cave and/or fall away quickly, and not much can be done about that anyways. Group 3 can be successful if KTC can increase their motivation to quit, but vets often remark that those who do not start out highly motivated are ultimately far less likely to remain quit long term. Switching between Group 1 and Group 2 may occur frequently and is dependent on a multitude of personal traits and other factors.
The best case scenario for a group is to have all of its members in Group 1. The most important reason is that if everyone in a group is heavily invested in both KTC and the quit, when someone misses roll it is obvious that person needs help immediately. However, when people miss roll frequently but maintain their quit and don't seem to be having any issues (Group 2), or when people wait until the end of the day to post (Group 2), it muddies the waters and makes it really difficult to determine who needs help and how badly.
No group can ever be perfect, but it seems that new groups evolve into more successful ones over time, as those who care less fade away and as those who care more get further entrenched in the ideals of KTC and in their group. I hate seeing people fade away, because some of them I'm sure went right back to nicotine and won't reflect on that decision for years to come. But I have learned to accept it. It is also frustrating because the early days of a quit are universally seen as the hardest. It is ironic, then, that the best quit groups have only formed after the most difficult days of quitting are behind them.
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Reflections after 3 weeks
I don't really fully understand the role KTC is meant to play in one's quit just yet.
On the one hand, there are very specific expectations laid out for us. WUPP EDD. If you miss roll, you need to explain it. If you cave, an explanation is not enough, you need to go through a root-cause analysis and figure out how to prevent it from happening again. On the other hand, we are all so different from one another in too many ways to count. For one, each personal history of addiction is different, and I think that this difference and others directly impact how an individual receives KTC.
So what is the prototypical quit group SOP, then? Clearly caving is not acceptable, but short of that there is a gray area. What do you do when someone caves and really tries his/her best to answer the 3 questions multiple times, but it's just not in-depth or revelatory enough for anyone to be satisfied? What do you do when someone misses roll and doesn't offer up any sort of explanation? What do you do when someone misses roll, you manage to get a decent explanation out of them, but then they miss roll again later? What do you do when someone doesn't miss roll, but instead posts daily "status updates" (as they are mockingly called by the group)?
One of the first things I noticed when I started investing my time in KTC is the intensity. While the effectiveness of cold turkey vs NRT is heavily debated in social and professional circles, cold turkey is what KTC supports and it is undoubtedly the most intense quit method. The brotherhood and support here is intense. The hate for nicotine is intense.
Out of that intensity comes a strong sense of responsibility. I feel responsible for my quit, as well as my quit group's. So how, then, do I and everyone else in my group ensure mutual success? The problem is that KTC consists of four types of quitters:
Group 1: highly motivated to quit, highly invested in KTC
Group 2: highly motivated to quit, less invested in KTC
Group 3: less motivated to quit, highly invested in KTC
Group 4: less motivated to quit, less invested in KTC
Group 1 and 2 are obviously most likely to remain quit. The subsection of people in Group 1 who rely on KTC most heavily to stay quit (versus simply using KTC as a result of being quit; correlation doesn't necessarily equal causation here) as well as Group 3 may be negatively impacted by witnessing the lack of investment in KTC from Groups 2 and 4. Group 4 will likely cave and/or fall away quickly, and not much can be done about that anyways. Group 3 can be successful if KTC can increase their motivation to quit, but vets often remark that those who do not start out highly motivated are ultimately far less likely to remain quit long term. Switching between Group 1 and Group 2 may occur frequently and is dependent on a multitude of personal traits and other factors.
The best case scenario for a group is to have all of its members in Group 1. The most important reason is that if everyone in a group is heavily invested in both KTC and the quit, when someone misses roll it is obvious that person needs help immediately. However, when people miss roll frequently but maintain their quit and don't seem to be having any issues (Group 2), or when people wait until the end of the day to post (Group 2), it muddies the waters and makes it really difficult to determine who needs help and how badly.
No group can ever be perfect, but it seems that new groups evolve into more successful ones over time, as those who care less fade away and as those who care more get further entrenched in the ideals of KTC and in their group. I hate seeing people fade away, because some of them I'm sure went right back to nicotine and won't reflect on that decision for years to come. But I have learned to accept it. It is also frustrating because the early days of a quit are universally seen as the hardest. It is ironic, then, that the best quit groups have only formed after the most difficult days of quitting are behind them.
Med-
I've known plenty of folks who have tried using NRTs and I have yet to meet anyone who actually quit nicotine. They may have stopped using whatever nicotine vehicle (dip, cigarettes etc.) that they were using to get their fix but in everyone I've every known they all ended up going back to whatever they were originally using to get their fix or instead of cigarettes they started dipping.
Companies have spent BILLIONS of dollars researching and marketing NRTs as a viable quit method so there is plenty of 'data' supporting that if one keeps spending their money on ingesting nicotine into their body that they can quit. I wonder why these companies put that 'data' out there? Ask around, read stuff in here. How many people in KTC tried using NRTs and failed until they found KTC and the cold turkey method? I tried it years ago. Sure I stopped dipping but I chewed the shit out of that nasty nic gum until I went right back to dip.
As for the quitters. You are going to find groups like you described in all aspects of life. There's not a lot anyone can do for group 4 folks until they decide to make a change for themselves. Group 3 there's hope because if they are highly vest in KTC they must remain quit in order to remain on KTC.
For Group 2 folks the Group Me might be a better fit for them. The quit group I was with 2 years ago we had some guys who through the first 100 days or so were very active via a group app called Kakoa (like group me) but only posted and ghosted on KTC. However, after awhile some of them became more involved on KTC.
Med-
what you are doing within our group by reaching out to fellow quitters, exchanging #s, keeping the spreadsheet, updating who is missing and inviting guys to join the group me app is helping so many people stay quit. We can't save them all- they have to want it and put in the effort- we can't quit for them (group 4).
Keep up the great effort and the beginning of a great quit.
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I have the hardest time understanding the people in your groups 2 and 4. I get that the KTC format isn't for everyone, so I understand someone giving it a shot for a week or so, deciding that it's not for them and fading away. No harm, no foul. But I don't get the people that keep posting, but actively fight the program or just ignore protocol.
What are they getting out of this? If you aren't making contacts, getting involved and posting daily, how does this help you at all? It's like making an "X" on a calendar, except that when you forget to make the "X" the calendar yells at you.
I think procedure for the group has to be spend your time on the guys that want to get invested. If the guys on the periphery ever decide to buy in, we welcome them in, but I've learned that you can't drag someone into the quit kicking and screaming. I've got about 25 PMs hanging out there that never got answered. Oh well. If those guys don't want to get involved, I can't let that affect me.
Anyway, great analysis - I'd be interested to see what your thoughts are on the different types of caver. Keep doing what you're doing. Staying involved, keeping your intro fresh and keeping us accountable in August will continue to help with your own quit.
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Hey everyone, I'm a medical student who first developed an affection for nicotine in college through cigarettes. I had considered myself a "chipper" back then because I would sometimes smoke a pack in a week and sometimes it'd take me 3 months to go through one. It didn't seem to have much of a pull.
Then I discovered snus pouches. These may seem like an odd thing to get hooked on, but I think they ended up being dangerous in my case as I could use them as a surrogate to caffeine that would wear off quicker so I could study later and sleep, and they are less messy so I can use them wherever I want. Eventually I started using them during tests to increase performance, and then every time I was studying, and then every time I was at school, etc. It creeped in without me really noticing how much I started to depend on it.
I know the effects of tobacco all too well, and am confronted with it almost every day. I think that's a good thing, because I think a lot of patients I see are able to by and large ignore the reality of their use the 99.99% of the time they're not interacting with a medical professional. It's also a good thing because it's fucking emasculating to talk to a patient about their smoking habit from a position of medical authority when I don't follow the advice I'm giving.
I've gone weeks without tobacco "to see if I could do it" without much issue other than lots of sleep and irritability in the first 72 hrs, but I've noticed that after a couple of weeks when I finally start to feel like I could do without it for good, I'll end up casually going back to it as if I'd never tried it before, because the problem is I still think I'm in control. Finally admitting to myself that's not the case, and I think this site can help keep me reminded of that in the coming weeks.
Posting roll now. Good luck to everyone else on their journey.
There's been several times in the past that I've quit for a while and then told myself that I'm going to go back to dipping on MY terms, not 1 can a day, not everyday, but in moderation. Every time I've had to to face the fact, that I can't do it in moderation. After a couple of day's I'm right back to the same old habit. Reading the last paragraph of your intro made me think of that.
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FMBM707 - thanks for the motivating words. I don't know a whole lot about the NRT industry, I just know what has been working for me for the last 22 days and that's what we're doing here. Interesting thoughts on the GroupMe, that is a theory I think we need to try out going forward.
Pky1520 - I feel like you understand exactly where I'm at. Idk if analyzing different cavers would be possible a posteriori as we would only really be able to use info from the ones who come back to KTC. A priori it would just be an exercise in exploring the psychology of addiction. I've actually seen something posted on here on the "3 steps to caving" or something like that, can't remember who posted it but I'll try to find it. It was fairly convincing to me.
Mike1966 - That's exactly what I meant. I always felt like once I stepped away for long enough, it was proof I wasn't helplessly addicted and that I could throw one in again. We do not control nicotine, it controls us.
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I have the hardest time understanding the people in your groups 2 and 4. I get that the KTC format isn't for everyone, so I understand someone giving it a shot for a week or so, deciding that it's not for them and fading away. No harm, no foul. But I don't get the people that keep posting, but actively fight the program or just ignore protocol.
What are they getting out of this? If you aren't making contacts, getting involved and posting daily, how does this help you at all? It's like making an "X" on a calendar, except that when you forget to make the "X" the calendar yells at you.
I think procedure for the group has to be spend your time on the guys that want to get invested. If the guys on the periphery ever decide to buy in, we welcome them in, but I've learned that you can't drag someone into the quit kicking and screaming. I've got about 25 PMs hanging out there that never got answered. Oh well. If those guys don't want to get involved, I can't let that affect me.
Anyway, great analysis - I'd be interested to see what your thoughts are on the different types of caver. Keep doing what you're doing. Staying involved, keeping your intro fresh and keeping us accountable in August will continue to help with your own quit.
I've been here for 267 days and what I have gained is a network of folks who said they will help me quit and these people have my digits. I am here every morning to post roll, but if I shouldn't post roll I expect that at least one of those folks will try to track me down. The reverse is true, I try to make sure that I check on everyone in my network and I text or call then if they are missing. I've tried to make my network as large as possible so that SOMEONE will notice if I don't post roll. I've also met another KTC member in person and I plan to meet many more as my quit goes forward.
I think the key to staying quit is to invest in your quit. If one doesn't really want to quit they don't make contacts and just drift away from here. I've read a lot of caver stories here and the common theme is that they were here for a bit and they never built a network. They valued their phone number or email address more than they valued being nicotine free. They didn't want to be held accountable every day.