KillTheCan.org Accountability Forum
Community => Introductions => Topic started by: Lone_Wolf on June 19, 2015, 11:49:00 AM
-
So my story is, I've been on many many antidepressants and they would work for awhile and then basically stop working. Eventually I was diagnosed Bipolar II and finally got my meds straighted out. It's been a battle and I've been in some very dark places. I am married and have 3 little boys, and I work full time with an office job. It has been diffucult in the past being fully functional and making it to work, but I am in a good place now, the only problem is my snuff use has increased from one dip a night after supper for many years, to almost a can a day. I am not allowed to use tobacco at work, and have just recently started taking dips out at my car during the day and on my lunch hour. I have a history of being a rapid cycler an there have been times when I've fealt so bad that snuff was the last thing on my mind. Well I have fealt well since my most recent med change and I guess that's been roughly around 3 weeks, but my tobacco usage has increased. When I feel good I have more cravings. I am 33 yrs old. I started in highschool and dipped about a can every 3 days in college, but I"m using almost a can a day now. I have taken Wellbutrin in the past and it takes away all enjoyment of nicotine, and I quit during this period, but this was probably 10 years ago. I also was in a deep deep depression and I fealt so sick that snuff made me feel worse, so I quit using without even trying really. I had scary bad side effects from the Wellbutrin and had to get off, and then it was just a roller coaster for me for quite awhile, and for many years I just took a small dip once a day after meals at night. Well I've been more stable which is great for me, and trust me my mental health is the biggest health issue I have. Snuff helps me battle my depression. When I feel good, I dip. I don't like the idea of my bottom lip on both sides being sore from my tobacco use, so I know I need to quit, or at least cut back. In all likely hood I will eventually cycle back into a depression, and my tobacco use will go down. I have a professional position at work. No one would ever guess that I'm bipolar if they met me, and only close family and my boss know I have mental health issues. Please do not belittle the seriousness of bipolar II disorder. It is a serious health problem, and I won't get into what I've battled with in my life, but I am currently stable, and I am being the best father and husband I can be. I quit for 3 + weeks about 2 months ago because I was tired of the cotton mouth and soar lip.
I guess I'm looking for anyone who might have mental health issues to offer any advice on quiting tobacco. It's hard to understand unless you're someone who's been in my shoes. I know I need to quit or cut back, or do something. I tried the gum, and it gives me stomach issues, but it did help me quit for 3 weeks. Now my stomach can't handle the gum. So I'm not sure I even belong on this sight, and I'm not sure quitting tobacco is even worth doing if it will possibly trigger a depressive episode. I just know I've increased my usage of it, and I know it's not a good thing. Any advice would be much appreciated. If this isn't the website for me, maybe a moderator can remove my account, I've been honest about who I am and what I"ve been through, and am just looking for others who can provide support and advice, but please do not belittle mental health. I know there is a stigma with mental health issues, but I can assure Bipolar II disorder is a hereditary disorder, with an unknown cause, and I take medication for legitamite reasons. I am not a weak person, I just haven't been dealt the best hand as far as genes go in the mental health dept. Again for all intents and purposes you would never know it you met me that I have the disorder. Just know I need to do something about my tobacco use, and I'm not sure this is the right place to come for support, cause I've noticed there's alot of tough guy attitudes about quitting cold turkey, and I'm don't think I need someone to tell me to pull up my boot straps and me and man and just quit. One thing I do know is Everyone on this website can identify with how tobacco can become such a big part of your life, and I know I use it to feel better when I'm down. I use it to for the buzz to feel even better when I feel good. I use it when I'm bored. I use it as a mood booster, as an energizer. I mean nicotine effects your brain chemistry, and maybe it even effects mine more than some of you. I don't know. Is there anyone out there that can Identify with me. I'm open to any and all advice. You don't have to have mental health issues to offer support. I'm healthy in the mental health dept currently, just my snuff usage has gotten worse, and that is why I am here. Sorry for such a long write-up. Just wanted to paint the full picture. THanks for your support and good luck to all who are trying to kick this bad habit.
-
I don't know if I'm ready to quit yet. I'm feeling good. My mouth is a little sore in spots, but I don't feel like crap....you know. And it's a Friday. I look forward to my weekends. I love my weekends, and the US Open is on this weekend. Part of me wants to go out and buy some more gum, and part believes it's only prolonging the problem. What's the difference in using the gum vs. putting smaller dips in, and just cutting back. That would prevent you from having withdrawal. You don't have to put a massive dip in. You could cut back and stop the withdrawl symtoms, it jusn't wouldn't be as enjoyable. I don't know. Don't let my first post scare you from commenting.
-
I think that nicotine effects the neurotransmitter concentrations in the brain, as do many of the antidepressants and other psychiatric medications. So once you stop nicotine, you will experience change in neurotransmitter concentrations, and this may impact your mood. I suggest that you first talk with your physician about a plan for stopping nicotine so that your physician can make adjustments to your medication as needed. I haven't witnessed any belittling of mental health problems at KTC. But if you participate in KTC and then cave, it is unlikely that people here will let your mental health issues be an acceptable excuse for caving. We can provide the support if you are committed to quit no matter what comes your way, but we can't provide the medical care.
-
Yeah, I believe nicotine gives you a boost of dopamine. It's a little more complicated for me if you know what I mean, and I'm not looking for excuses. I think talking to the doc is probably the best idea. Delicate balance we play with meds.... alot of folks who struggle with depression are smokers and tobacco users. Anyway, maybe this sight isn't the best fit for me. I can be all gung ho about quitting, and then I'm at home or fishing or playing golf or whatever, and it's like, the can is just an extension of who I am and I don't even consider quitting. Think I need to talk to doc before I quit cold turkey or anything like that, and maybe have a little better self control over how much I'm stuffing in my mouth for now. Thanks for the response.
-
I think that nicotine effects the neurotransmitter concentrations in the brain, as do many of the antidepressants and other psychiatric medications. So once you stop nicotine, you will experience change in neurotransmitter concentrations, and this may impact your mood. I suggest that you first talk with your physician about a plan for stopping nicotine so that your physician can make adjustments to your medication as needed. I haven't witnessed any belittling of mental health problems at KTC. But if you participate in KTC and then cave, it is unlikely that people here will let your mental health issues be an acceptable excuse for caving. We can provide the support if you are committed to quit no matter what comes your way, but we can't provide the medical care.
Well said quark. ADs and nicotine both affect neurotransmitters. I'm sure your doctor would advise quitting but check with him/her first (I seen my Dr for the first time since quitting a couple days ago..he was ecstatic that I quit). Once you are ready to quit nicotine 100% we will all be here for you. This is a nicotine free program so no small dips, gum, or anything with nicotine. Cold turkey only here! As far as the mental health issues go...I'm sure no one here would belittle that. I have had issues with ADs mostly for anxiety in the past and they are no fun. Hang in there and PM me if you need to talk about anything.
-
Yup got it. Well I work in an office, so it's not like I do it all day long, it's just the size dips I started taking are large, I've got a spot stretched out on my right side, I guess were I've kept taking bigger and bigger dips. I kind of indulge in the evenings. But, It's been a pretty quick escalation of usage for me, so I need to stop before it gets out of hand. For all I know, my meds may help me handle cravings and withdrawals better already. I just know what I'm taking now, is not like wellbutrin/Zyban. When I took that, I had no enjoyment from nicotine. It was like you could still dip, but the pleasure was just taken away, it was weird, so I just naturally stopped using it, think it made me have headaches too when I used it while taking Wellbutrin. I'll check back in when I'm 100% all in. Right now in my heart I"m not ready to quit. I'm to afraid to fall back into the darkness. I think I'll just work on slowing down and self control right now. Thanks for the response.
-
Lone_Wolf
Here are a couple of my thoughts:
1. Have you told your doctor you chew, I bet not? Ask him about how if effects your meds.
2. Nicotine is a drug, you are an addict!! Your addict brain is trying to tell you, that it is too hard to quit and insert excuse __________
3. I used to almost be ready to quit, next week, father's day, kids bday, etc. I would always put it off. Quit now, and you will be quit for your first Father's day in years?
4. It will be hard to quit with some of the other issues you have but better than dealing with cancer and/or jaw removal
5. This isn't a site to talk about potentially quitting, we quit here every damn day, I am 305 days quit.
-
It's not news to me that I'm addicted to it and I know this is a site that's only about cold turkey no nicotine flowing your veins type of quitting, but I don't think you understand what real depression is like my friend. I've started nicotine replacement today. Took one dip this morning for about 20 min, and I've used one lozenge. My plan is to use the lozenge's to get off the snuff and then taper the lozenges. That's how I'm going to do it. That's my plan. If I don't belong here that's fine. For the life of me, I can't understand why your still hanging around tobacco forums if you've quit for almost a year. I've quit before, and I just didn't think about it anymore after I stopped.....I just didn't. It was out of my life. It was not part of my life. I understand the desire to help others, but I think for me, I would just have to remove myself from anything associated with tobacco once I was completely quit. I've done it before I quit, for a good while, and it wasn't until a friend offered me a tiny pinch that made me dizzy as heck that I started on "occasion" taking a small dip. And the habit, slowly over years crept back. I also don't understand, maybe it's a northern thing, why do alot of yall call dipping snuff chewing. You don't chew on it. You chew on chewing tobacco. You dip snuff. IDK I just see alot of folks using the terminology of using stuff and calling it chewing....weird to me. Anyways I guess I'm done here.
-
I am by no means a doctor, nor do I play one on TV. But... I would highly recommend you speak with someone medically qualified to get the answers you want. With that being said, I can't imagine any doctor in the long run suggesting you NOT give up nicotine. Perhaps the first 30 days of your quit would be best suited for an in-patient program where you can be monitored 24/7 if the medical balance is as sensitive and necessary as you describe.
-
I have 3 children, a wife, and a full time job. I am stable. I have never been hospitalized. Bipolar II disorder is not who I am or what I am, it does not define me. I accept it, I live with it, I work, I exercise, I eat good, I try and keep a routine. I have a therapist, I have a psychiastrist, I have a family doctor. I have good medication that is working. I have care. In-patient is last resort for anyone. It's not like you go hey doc I'm quitting snuff, so let me quit my job and not be able to support my family while you check me in to a hospital somewhere. It doesn't work that way. Just came here looking for a little support is all.
-
I'm really not sure how sensitive the balance of everything is, but I do know that I was taking the same meds and doing just fine back in the winter, and not dipping until the evening each day, usually after I had supper. Maybe a can would last me a couple of weeks. I can't really remember, but it's been a quick escalation. And now I'm done with it. I have my lozenges if a craving comes. So far so good. And I accept that I can't post as being quit because I'm still using nicotine. But it's better than snuff. I do agree though that advice from my Dr.s is probably where I should be looking instead of coming online and getting opinions from folks who aren't experts on how nicotine and my meds all work together. As far as I know nicotine isn't that big a deal......in terms of the medications I"m taking. Alcohol on the other hand is. Alcohol can really mess with stuff. Thanks for all the replies.
-
It's not news to me that I'm addicted to it and I know this is a site that's only about cold turkey no nicotine flowing your veins type of quitting, but I don't think you understand what real depression is like my friend. I've started nicotine replacement today. Took one dip this morning for about 20 min, and I've used one lozenge. My plan is to use the lozenge's to get off the snuff and then taper the lozenges. That's how I'm going to do it. That's my plan. If I don't belong here that's fine. For the life of me, I can't understand why your still hanging around tobacco forums if you've quit for almost a year. I've quit before, and I just didn't think about it anymore after I stopped.....I just didn't. It was out of my life. It was not part of my life. I understand the desire to help others, but I think for me, I would just have to remove myself from anything associated with tobacco once I was completely quit. I've done it before I quit, for a good while, and it wasn't until a friend offered me a tiny pinch that made me dizzy as heck that I started on "occasion" taking a small dip. And the habit, slowly over years crept back. I also don't understand, maybe it's a northern thing, why do alot of yall call dipping snuff chewing. You don't chew on it. You chew on chewing tobacco. You dip snuff. IDK I just see alot of folks using the terminology of using stuff and calling it chewing....weird to me. Anyways I guess I'm done here.
I hope you do come in and join here. There are a number of guys who struggle with mental health issues here and don't have a lot of experience with it. Someone, like you, who has been involved with treatment could probably help a lot of others who haven't worked with qualified professionals.
As to why someone would stick around here, I think the best answer for me is that I believe there is physical and mental addiction. I suffer from both. Once I have nicotine out of my system, that may address the physical addiction, but the mental addiction remains, and I have to come here for my therapy just like a diabetic takes insulin or someone with depression might see a therapist for cognitive therapy.
Addiction may or may not be fully understood, but what is understood, is that true addiction is never "cured" it can only be treated. It is also known that addiction is a progressive illness. Addicts never get better only worse. How else could you explain someone who had family members die of cancer and go back to dipping or smoking?
I hope this doesn't seem argumentative, because I think you could help others here, and I think helping others is the best way to help yourself. At least that's been my experience. Good luck in whatever you pursue. I hope things work out well for you.
-
I have 3 children, a wife, and a full time job. I am stable. I have never been hospitalized. Bipolar II disorder is not who I am or what I am, it does not define me. I accept it, I live with it, I work, I exercise, I eat good, I try and keep a routine. I have a therapist, I have a psychiastrist, I have a family doctor. I have good medication that is working. I have care. In-patient is last resort for anyone. It's not like you go hey doc I'm quitting snuff, so let me quit my job and not be able to support my family while you check me in to a hospital somewhere. It doesn't work that way. Just came here looking for a little support is all.
Well... you're not going to be too much good to your 3 children, wife and full time job when you're battling mouth cancer down the road either.
-
For the life of me, I can't understand why your still hanging around tobacco forums if you've quit for almost a year. I've quit before, and I just didn't think about it anymore after I stopped.....I just didn't. It was out of my life. It was not part of my life. I understand the desire to help others, but I think for me, I would just have to remove myself from anything associated with tobacco once I was completely quit. I've done it before I quit, for a good while, and it wasn't until a friend offered me a tiny pinch that made me dizzy as heck that I started on "occasion" taking a small dip. And the habit, slowly over years crept back.
This statement right here is why Spuds has been around here for over 300 days. Today I posted 477 and plan on posting roll till I'm dead. We don't give ourselves the option of taking a little pinch. That option isn't on the table because we made a commitment to ourselves, our brothers and sisters here, and those who are close to us.
-
Well I understand that completely. I had it beat and the perfect opportunity to just be done with it and foolishly let it back in my life. This evening was tough, I almost caved, but I used my lozenge's to get rid of the craving. My mouth needs to heal. I may be embellishing the condition of my mouth as I had a dental appt soon after I had quit for 3 weeks, and they said I had great teeth and wonderful oral health. I brush my teeth pretty good. At work at the office it's not as bad, but I realize I was doing most my damage at home where I relax and just indulge and enjoy. So I wasn't in the best of moods and held my snuff can in one hand and my Nicorette mints in the other as I sat outside watching my three boys this evening. I was just dying for a dip. I believe what I've been doing in the evenings with my snuff(one dip after another) was probably equivalent to chain smoking. Anyway as I type this with my lip and gum feeling raw and irritated on both sides I know I have to quit this for my family and myself. If yall will have me I'd like to hang around as I try and beat this in my own way. It may not be the cold turkey Kill The Can way, but my wife would have me just keep doing it rather than put up with me in a bad mood all the time so I'm using the nicotine replacement to get started. So many of family and friends (mostly on my wife's side smoke or dip) so my wife actually doesn't take it too seriously or even really see it as a big problem or even an addiction, but I see it as an addiction and deep down I always have known that, I just would deny it and kind of look at it as my little bad habit. lots of guys on my wife's side dip. I always looked at it as hey everybody has bad habits, so this is mine, so what. Well, not anymore, I have an addiction, and I'm not ok being addicted to something that is hurting my body. Yes I take pills, that I may or may not be "addicted" to for my mental health, but those are essential medication. I honestly don't know if I'm addicted to any of my meds, and I'm not going to quit them and find out. I've tried that before in the past and I wasn't craving any med, but I was having symptoms that were scary, so not going down that road again. The snuff is different, it's a guilty pleasure, it's not helping me, it's hurting me. I may be a little more sensitive to the mouth pain than others. Looking at my mouth everything looks pretty good, it just doesn't feel good. My quit may be a little different from all of yours but I hope you will still have me. Am I welcome to hang around on one of these forums? I'm not going to count my days on the Nicorette mints as days quit, but as days to the path of being quit, and when I get there, which I will. I'll Join yall on the nicotine free forum if that sounds ok. If not that's ok too. Just let me know if I'm still welcome. I'm through with using snuff or tobacco of any kind. I do realize that I will have to eventually get myself off the nicotine replacement, but for now I need to let my mouth heal, and take this one day at a time. Please let me know if I'm still welcome to hang around some place on this website? If not, I understand.
-
As far as helping others, I would be more than happy to help anyone. I've had well over a year of Cognitive Behavioral Therapy and I continue to see my therapist as needed. I've been on many medications, so I have a lot of experience with therapy and medications. I've read many books and I do have experience with the mental health system. I can offer up my experience of what has worked for me as far as mental health, and what hasn't. As just general advice that I will throw out there, if you truly have a chemical balance that's causing you depression or anxiety, then you need to skip the family doc and find yourself a psychiatrist. Trust me, if I could do it over again, I would skip the family doc and go straight to a psychiatrist. But even better general advice, if you are suffering from anxiety or depression the best thing to do is seek help from a trained psychologist and see if you can get better without drugs. So basically seek therapy first and find out if you even need medication. It's a shame how the family docs hand out psychotropic drugs as if they're candy. Oh, my dog died, put me on an antidepressant. If you've never been depressed, and you have a major life event, you lose a close loved one for example. You really should seek therapy and not drugs if you've never in your life ever suffered from anxiety or depression and now find yourself struggling. Anyway, just some general advice. And I've just been through the system, so it's just my experience and opinion. As far as quitting tobacco, I'm afraid I've been weak in this dept. I was able to quit once for a couple of years maybe, but I believe that Wellbutrin and having extreme anxiety basically made me feel so bad that I just didn't want to do it, so that doesn't really count. I will say that if you're willing to put a psych med in your system, Wellbutrin/Zyban will take the pleasure of nicotine away. It can also help libido and energy, but can cause anxiety. If you can take the med with few if any side effects it many be the ticket for you. But remember, to pay close attention to any weird changes in mood or thoughts. Very important to pay attention to these kinds of things because these drugs can cause scary side effects, and it may just not be worth it. Your messing with your brains chemical balance with any of the drugs they now prescribe for smoking or nicotine cessation. Just my two cents.
-
Don't let a bipolar diagnosis kill you. You don't need nicotine anymore than anyone else here. If you want to quit, and here that means no nicotine, you just need to do it. This is a no nicotine site so I sure wish you would give it up and join us...just one day at a time.
-
Well, start of a new day. Guys I'm going to do this with the nicotine replacement. I understand your site isn't about that. Maybe I'll come back when I've got myself weaned off the mints. I understand there are some very strong feelings about this being a "no nicotine site". So when I'm officially "no nicotine" maybe I'll come back and join if I feel the need. I admire all you guys able to do this cold turkey. I just can't do it cold turkey. Not at this time in my life. Thanks for your time.
-
Well I understand that completely. I had it beat and the perfect opportunity to just be done with it and foolishly let it back in my life. This evening was tough, I almost caved, but I used my lozenge's to get rid of the craving. My mouth needs to heal. I may be embellishing the condition of my mouth as I had a dental appt soon after I had quit for 3 weeks, and they said I had great teeth and wonderful oral health. I brush my teeth pretty good. At work at the office it's not as bad, but I realize I was doing most my damage at home where I relax and just indulge and enjoy. So I wasn't in the best of moods and held my snuff can in one hand and my Nicorette mints in the other as I sat outside watching my three boys this evening. I was just dying for a dip. I believe what I've been doing in the evenings with my snuff(one dip after another) was probably equivalent to chain smoking. Anyway as I type this with my lip and gum feeling raw and irritated on both sides I know I have to quit this for my family and myself. If yall will have me I'd like to hang around as I try and beat this in my own way. It may not be the cold turkey Kill The Can way, but my wife would have me just keep doing it rather than put up with me in a bad mood all the time so I'm using the nicotine replacement to get started. So many of family and friends (mostly on my wife's side smoke or dip) so my wife actually doesn't take it too seriously or even really see it as a big problem or even an addiction, but I see it as an addiction and deep down I always have known that, I just would deny it and kind of look at it as my little bad habit. lots of guys on my wife's side dip. I always looked at it as hey everybody has bad habits, so this is mine, so what. Well, not anymore, I have an addiction, and I'm not ok being addicted to something that is hurting my body. Yes I take pills, that I may or may not be "addicted" to for my mental health, but those are essential medication. I honestly don't know if I'm addicted to any of my meds, and I'm not going to quit them and find out. I've tried that before in the past and I wasn't craving any med, but I was having symptoms that were scary, so not going down that road again. The snuff is different, it's a guilty pleasure, it's not helping me, it's hurting me. I may be a little more sensitive to the mouth pain than others. Looking at my mouth everything looks pretty good, it just doesn't feel good. My quit may be a little different from all of yours but I hope you will still have me. Am I welcome to hang around on one of these forums? I'm not going to count my days on the Nicorette mints as days quit, but as days to the path of being quit, and when I get there, which I will. I'll Join yall on the nicotine free forum if that sounds ok. If not that's ok too. Just let me know if I'm still welcome. I'm through with using snuff or tobacco of any kind. I do realize that I will have to eventually get myself off the nicotine replacement, but for now I need to let my mouth heal, and take this one day at a time. Please let me know if I'm still welcome to hang around some place on this website? If not, I understand.
Dude... It's a nic free forum. We don't make room for "if's or but's". Go nic free, post roll and repeat. It ain't easy, but it is simple. Thousands have cleared the trail for you. Follow the lead.
-
My friend you are not a lone wolf when it comes to nicotine addicts that have mental health issues. I joined KTC and quit nicotine 3 years ago at a very low point in my life. I joined in a desperate attempt to save my life. I had been addicted to nicotine for over 40 years and am sure I used to self medicate my mental health issues. I reached the point I couldn't deal with the fact that I had no control over my addiction. To complicate my situation I hid and lied about my addiction.
You say that you're not ready to quit cold turkey, that's addict talk. Replacement therapy is a joke, I've been there. I've seen so much evidence over the past 3 years here that there is a link between nicotine use and mental health issues that I am convinced there is a link. Nicotine addiction to self medicate mainly but also those that nicotine leads to depression. For me it was both.
No one here will belittle anyone over mental health issues but you may get criticized for not embracing a nicotine quit. Switching the delivery method is a joke and all of us that are recovering nicotine addicts recognize that.
I have kids older than you and would love to see you face your addiction at your young age and avoid the mistakes I made by not facing it when I was your age. I also know that only you can decide to face it now. Pm me if you'd like to have my number.
-
Read my intro, I came in here with a patch on and got my ass kicked. I finally manned up 30 days later and still went through "the SUCK", just like they said I would. Now it's 400+ days later and I love each and every poster for kicking my ass.
Quitting sucks and is hard, but so is cancer, so drop the " I can't" attitude and be a quitter.
-
1. You have never quit before only stopped
2. I am here because I have failed too many times and I can't afford to again
3. no nicotine, post roll
4. don't be afraid to use bullet points or paragraphs when writing :)
-
1. You have never quit before only stopped
2. I am here because I have failed too many times and I can't afford to again
3. no nicotine, post roll
4. don't be afraid to use bullet points or paragraphs when writing :)
1. I
2. agree
3. with
4. everything
5. Spuds
6. Wrote!
7. Quitting doesn't have to suck.
8. Its all in your attitude and perspective.