KillTheCan.org Accountability Forum
Community => Introductions => Topic started by: jwright on September 01, 2014, 10:15:00 AM
-
Hi Community,
Pleased to be writing this post as it is an initial step in what will be a challenging and long journey to self improvement. A bit about myself... I've been dipping off and on since I was 18 for about 15 years now. The biggest issue I've faced with dipping cannot be pinned on the Skoal I've been throwing ridiculous amounts of money at over the years, but actually myself.
The reality is that I've always approached dipping alone. Since I dipped in high school, through my 20's and now in my 30's, I've always done so (with the exception of a few friends who did also) by myself... in my truck, bathroom, whenever my girlfriends were gone, etc... Because it has always been a secretive addiction, whenever I've tried to quit, I've also tried to do so in isolation. This has failed miserably many many times... birthdays, new years, life events, etc... a countless pile of failed quit dates.
The biggest problem is I've never really informed others about how serious the addiction really is and how much I really need help. I've discovered that I am literally too weak to do it on my own, and that is a hard thing to admit for myself. The only path forward, is to admit this to people in my life, and to you all here, in hopes of finding accountability that I've never been able to find within myself. Although, ultimately, it needs to come down to a decision for myself on a daily basis and the accountability must come from me, I literally need help.
The problem I face, is one that almost feels like multiple personalities... i can wake up at 8am and say, today's the day, and fast forward six hours after a tough discussion with a client or my boss, I'm losing an internal argument about why I should not go to the store to buy more. The reality... the right side has never won this argument once, or I would not be posting this.
I'm sure this a familiar story to everyone here, so I will not write much more about it. I will say this much about my recent dip habits:
1. Averaging 1 can of skoal mint poaches daily.
2. My mouth tastes and feels like complete shit at the end of the day.
3. My bank account is getting whacked hard.
4. My mood is horrific and frequently my displeasure with myself and guilt of the habit ends up impacting my relationship with my girlfriend (who has no idea of course).
So, I'm here to change things and myself by posting this introduction message. I've tapered for the past week down to one dip a day the past two days, and will officially call this my quit day, Sept 1, 2014.
I hope that the honesty and candidness of people in this community provide me with the assistance I've never really had before.
I have one question for this: I've read many posts referencing "post roll" or "roll call", and perhaps I am missing somethign completely obvious, but how do I find this so I can be accountable each day?
jw
-
Sorry, disregard the "post roll" questions, I found the instructions. Thanks.
jw
-
Hi Community,
Pleased to be writing this post as it is an initial step in what will be a challenging and long journey to self improvement. A bit about myself... I've been dipping off and on since I was 18 for about 15 years now. The biggest issue I've faced with dipping cannot be pinned on the Skoal I've been throwing ridiculous amounts of money at over the years, but actually myself.
The reality is that I've always approached dipping alone. Since I dipped in high school, through my 20's and now in my 30's, I've always done so (with the exception of a few friends who did also) by myself... in my truck, bathroom, whenever my girlfriends were gone, etc... Because it has always been a secretive addiction, whenever I've tried to quit, I've also tried to do so in isolation. This has failed miserably many many times... birthdays, new years, life events, etc... a countless pile of failed quit dates.
The biggest problem is I've never really informed others about how serious the addiction really is and how much I really need help. I've discovered that I am literally too weak to do it on my own, and that is a hard thing to admit for myself. The only path forward, is to admit this to people in my life, and to you all here, in hopes of finding accountability that I've never been able to find within myself. Although, ultimately, it needs to come down to a decision for myself on a daily basis and the accountability must come from me, I literally need help.
The problem I face, is one that almost feels like multiple personalities... i can wake up at 8am and say, today's the day, and fast forward six hours after a tough discussion with a client or my boss, I'm losing an internal argument about why I should not go to the store to buy more. The reality... the right side has never won this argument once, or I would not be posting this.
I'm sure this a familiar story to everyone here, so I will not write much more about it. I will say this much about my recent dip habits:
1. Averaging 1 can of skoal mint poaches daily.
2. My mouth tastes and feels like complete shit at the end of the day.
3. My bank account is getting whacked hard.
4. My mood is horrific and frequently my displeasure with myself and guilt of the habit ends up impacting my relationship with my girlfriend (who has no idea of course).
So, I'm here to change things and myself by posting this introduction message. I've tapered for the past week down to one dip a day the past two days, and will officially call this my quit day, Sept 1, 2014.
I hope that the honesty and candidness of people in this community provide me with the assistance I've never really had before.
I have one question for this: I've read many posts referencing "post roll" or "roll call", and perhaps I am missing somethign completely obvious, but how do I find this so I can be accountable each day?
jw
Hey jwright!
You're in the right place! Your story is no different than all of ours. I was also a secretive dipper. I went 3 years before anyone other than my close friend, found out I dipped. That is where the problem is. If nobody knows what we are battling, how can they help? I used nic for 10 years. Before I quit, I was going through a can a day. Not only hurting my health, but also my checking account pretty bad. The first mentioned however, should be the reason you want to quit. This is life or death. Read the Tom and Jenny Kern story if you haven't yet.
Posting roll is something we do every morning. NOT in the afternoon, not at night... first thing in the morning! It's a promise, to not use nic, in any form, for the day. Don't worry about tomorrow, or the big football game 2 weeks away...we worry about today, the present. Anybody can quit for 1 day. Instructions for posting can be found in the Welcome Center. You will be in the December 2014 group, as you will hit your Hall of Fame date of 100 days, in December.
To end, you have to realize that dipping isn't a habit. I had a hard time realizing this early on. The act of putting it in your mouth may be built on a habitual pattern, but it's the nic that keeps you coming back. This is an addiction. We are addicts. You are an addict. I am an addict. We hate any form of nic of here!
I'm going to send you a PM, top right Inbox (1) so make sure to check that. Welcome to the freedom.
TH
-
Welcome brother!!! Post roll ASAP! The simple daily routine of posting roll is saving thousands of lives.
-
Posted roll first time. Thanks for the welcome notes all and THansen for the insight. I can already tell that being able to discuss these issues with people who have face the same challenges is going to be an incredibly valuable resource for me. Thanks for this already.
jw
-
Time to come clean bro, to EVERYONE.
I too was a ninja dipper. Nobody knew outside a few of my "boys". When I quit I HAD to come clean. No way I could have done it alone, or undercover.
The thing is JW, when I did come clean my family and friends were very understanding and supportive.
I think everyone can relate to the addictive powers of nicotine. It's not like I said I was a crack fiend or a heroin addict and had been sucking dick for rocks.
Don't be fooled though. Nicotine is one of the most addictive drugs in the world. Just because you can buy it in a store does not mean it's addictive powers are not on par or even more so that "harder" drugs. Quitting is a mother fucker.
You're in the right place though. Post role every day, get involved, and lean on those fighting the same battles.
You can do this. You WILL do this.
Quit on...
-
Posted roll first time. Thanks for the welcome notes all and THansen for the insight. I can already tell that being able to discuss these issues with people who have face the same challenges is going to be an incredibly valuable resource for me. Thanks for this already.
jw
I saw you posted roll today. Awesome. To succeed here you have to treat that roll post as serious as the rest of us do. When you post roll you are promising everyone here you will not dip today. And everyone else who posts roll is making the same promise to you. That is the foundation of this site. If you are a man of your word, that promise will get you through some tough moments. As your quit progresses and you start to get a little more comfortable don't slack on your roll post. Oftentimes it's the first step back to a life of dip.
I too was a ninja dipper (a phrase used around here for those who hid their addiction). If I can give any advice it would be to be the opposite as a quitter....let as many people know as possible. Will it be a little embarrassing? Probably....But will it add to the accountability of your quit? Definitely.
Good luck Brutha!
-
Woke up this morning feeling pretty damn nauseous due to lack of nicotine in my blood stream. This was around 4:30am and just couldn't stay in bed to fall back asleep. So, the plan of today is...
1. Post roll (done)
2. Try to reach out to someone new (done)
3. Eat about 1.5 million sunflower seeds while working at home.
4. Check in on this KTC each hour, maybe hit up the live chat for help if needed.
I'm probably going to post to this thread daily to continually remind myself about how much I really hate this shit. Today's "shit I can do without" ...
I've got a 2012 Harley Iron. This Summer specifically I have missed out on countless rides for one reason... I can dip in my truck but not on my bike.
Sad? Believe it, the truck always won. Yesterday I made a point of going for a ride.
J
-
Welcome to the best decision you will ever make.
I was a ninja dipper, too. Tough being a city kid and dipping, since it is not exactly part of the NYC culture as it is in other places around the country.
One thing that helped me significantly with the early withdrawals was Excedrin migraine. The headaches begin to dissipate almost instantly. Amazing. They can last anywhere from a few days to about two weeks, so get ready for quite a ride. But after that's over, it's smooth sailing- physiologically. The psychological withdrawals will continue to linger.
In any case, I look forward to coming back to this thread on your HOF Day 100.
-
Hey JW, you've done a fantastic thing. I had dipped/chewed for 32 years; quit a hundred times but always found myself pulling into a convenience store for 'just one'. And then right back into the hole. So obviously my will power alone was not enough for me and I repeated the cycle of bondage, suffering from withdrawal, agony of defeat.
And by the Grace of God, stumbled upon KTC and found the fellowship here empowering. For me posting roll and complete transparency (humility) were the tools and fellowship was the power for success.
Fight hard. Simply strangle the voice of temptation. Obey and lean on people here.
You can soon enough be done with this and enjoy life on the other side.
Willy
-
Brilliant help guys, thanks for sharing. My mind is blown to finally talk to people about this secret battle I've been waging with myself for years. There are slight variances between all the stories on here, but that common thread of having some sort of substance control your every decision seems very consistent. It's really good to be able to admit the humiliation of it to others who have been successful at taming it and understanding the battle.
If anyone out there has any resources that scientifically explain nicotine withdrawal cycles, please share. I've read quite a few via normal search, but I'm looking to learn as much as I can about what I am dealing with at the moment.
J
-
Brilliant help guys, thanks for sharing. My mind is blown to finally talk to people about this secret battle I've been waging with myself for years. There are slight variances between all the stories on here, but that common thread of having some sort of substance control your every decision seems very consistent. It's really good to be able to admit the humiliation of it to others who have been successful at taming it and understanding the battle.
If anyone out there has any resources that scientifically explain nicotine withdrawal cycles, please share. I've read quite a few via normal search, but I'm looking to learn as much as I can about what I am dealing with at the moment.
J
Nicotine Addiction 101 (http://whyquit.com/whyquit/linksaaddiction.html)
This same link can be found somewhere in the welcome center I believe.
Keep reading. Keep posting. Drink lots of water.
Welcome aboard. Stay committed and always remember how much you hated that feeling of not being on control.
Pm me if you need support digits.
-
Brilliant help guys, thanks for sharing. My mind is blown to finally talk to people about this secret battle I've been waging with myself for years. There are slight variances between all the stories on here, but that common thread of having some sort of substance control your every decision seems very consistent. It's really good to be able to admit the humiliation of it to others who have been successful at taming it and understanding the battle.
If anyone out there has any resources that scientifically explain nicotine withdrawal cycles, please share. I've read quite a few via normal search, but I'm looking to learn as much as I can about what I am dealing with at the moment.
J
Nicotine Addiction 101 (http://whyquit.com/whyquit/linksaaddiction.html)
This same link can be found somewhere in the welcome center I believe.
Keep reading. Keep posting. Drink lots of water.
Welcome aboard. Stay committed and always remember how much you hated that feeling of not being on control.
Pm me if you need support digits.
The below was post by david.m in his intro, he's a Titan of preHOF Oct. '14
Some interesting research:
on Nicotine as a dopamine releasing drug, ala heroin and other opiates:
"Nicotine and opiates are very different drugs, but the endpoint, with respect to the control of dopamine signaling, is almost identical. It demonstrates the seriousness of tobacco addiction, equating its grip on the individual to that of heroin. It reinforces the fact that these addictions are very physiological in nature and that breaking away from the habit is certainly more than just mind over matter."
- Daniel McGehee, University of Chicago Medical Center.
"The 10 Hardest Drugs to Kick"
- by Jacqueline Detwiler
The chemical makeup of drugs guarantee that certain drugs are more addictive than others. The hardest ones to kick actually train your brain to crave them. A team of researchers led by professor David Nutt of London's Imperial College recently set out to determine which drugs were most harmful based on their addictive properties. Dutch scientists replicated the London study and devised a "dependency rating" that measured addictive potency of the biggest drugs out there on a precisely calibrated scale of 0-to-3.
1. Heroin - 2.89
2. Crack Cocaine - 2.82
3. Nicotine - 2.82 (tied with Crack for second "most addictive and hardest to kick" drug!!!)
4. Methadone - 2.68
5. Crystal Meth - 2.24
6. Alcohol - 2.13
7. Cocaine - 2.13
8. Amphetamines - 1.95
9. Benzodiazepines - 1.89
10. GHB - 1.71
on the first 100 days:
"There is growing evidence that on average, it takes about 90 days for the brain to break free of the immediate effects of the drug and reset itself. Researchers at Yale University call this 90-to-100 day period the 'sleeper effect,' a time during which the brain's proper... functions gradually recover."
- Tony O'Neill, in his article, "The 100-Day Hangover"
"Whatever substance you're detoxing from, there's always an attachment. We're talking about people who are cutting off something that has started to feel as vital to them as the air they breathe. So you inevitably go through this painful period of wrenching yourself away from it, and now you're feeling lousy. It's pretty common for many recovering addicts to ask, 'Is this the reward I get for getting clean?' Most people are led to believe that once they stop using, their life will start to get better, when in reality this next period can really suck. But it gets better."
- Dr. Arnold Washton, author of Willpower is Not Enough: Recovering From Addictions of Every Kind
on not replacing nicotine-addiction with other dopamine-releasing-addictions:
"If you stop using your drug of choice but continue to use alcohol or another drug, you're saying that you don't want to learn new coping skills and that you don't want to change your life. You're saying that you want to continue to rely on drugs or alcohol to escape, relax, and reward yourself. But if you don't learn those new skills, then you won't have changed, and your addiction will catch up with you all over again.
- www.AddictionsAndRecovery.org (http://www.AddictionsAndRecovery.org)
I read another article (can't find it now to post the quotes) that essentially explained that "addicts are addicts." Meaning, after nicotine has left the body, our cravings are not really cravings for nicotine... they're cravings for dopamine. After years of nicotine use we've created extra "gates" in our brain through which the excess amount of dopamine was able to get to the brain. Now that we've stopped using, those "gates" are huuuungry. We get normal-sized shots of dopamine when we eat, have sex, exercise, complete tasks, etc... but we may also find our cravings pop up soon after (like the post-meal crave)... that's because the brain is used to getting bigger drops of dopamine at a time... so the natural ways we produce it aren't equal to the unnatural/drug-induced ways. So it wants more. The brain doesn't know (or care) what source is feeding it the excessive amounts of dopamine it's used to. So, often nicotine quitters will transition to another addiction - usually alcohol - and they're not actually breaking addiction at all, only shifting it to a new dopamine-source. The article advised steering clear of all drugs/alcohol during the first 100 days of nicotine-quitting so that the brain has time to recover and re-learn proper balance."
-
Brilliant help guys, thanks for sharing. My mind is blown to finally talk to people about this secret battle I've been waging with myself for years. There are slight variances between all the stories on here, but that common thread of having some sort of substance control your every decision seems very consistent. It's really good to be able to admit the humiliation of it to others who have been successful at taming it and understanding the battle.
If anyone out there has any resources that scientifically explain nicotine withdrawal cycles, please share. I've read quite a few via normal search, but I'm looking to learn as much as I can about what I am dealing with at the moment.
J
Nicotine Addiction 101 (http://whyquit.com/whyquit/linksaaddiction.html)
This same link can be found somewhere in the welcome center I believe.
Keep reading. Keep posting. Drink lots of water.
Welcome aboard. Stay committed and always remember how much you hated that feeling of not being on control.
Pm me if you need support digits.
Great link mat849! Some good reading to further myself from the cave!!!!
jw
-
Time to come clean bro, to EVERYONE.
I too was a ninja dipper. Nobody knew outside a few of my "boys". When I quit I HAD to come clean. No way I could have done it alone, or undercover.
The thing is JW, when I did come clean my family and friends were very understanding and supportive.
I think everyone can relate to the addictive powers of nicotine. It's not like I said I was a crack fiend or a heroin addict and had been sucking dick for rocks.
Don't be fooled though. Nicotine is one of the most addictive drugs in the world. Just because you can buy it in a store does not mean it's addictive powers are not on par or even more so that "harder" drugs. Quitting is a mother fucker.
You're in the right place though. Post role every day, get involved, and lean on those fighting the same battles.
You can do this. You WILL do this.
Quit on...
First - JW good to have you and thanks for the PM. I was a ninja also lying to everyone, looking forward to when my wife would go shopping so I could sneak one in. Pathetic. But we are now both in good company
Secondly - diesel2112 cracks me up. Put me in my place the other day on my intro and provided me with my rock bottom.
-
Time to come clean bro, to EVERYONE.
I too was a ninja dipper. Nobody knew outside a few of my "boys". When I quit I HAD to come clean. No way I could have done it alone, or undercover.
The thing is JW, when I did come clean my family and friends were very understanding and supportive.
I think everyone can relate to the addictive powers of nicotine. It's not like I said I was a crack fiend or a heroin addict and had been sucking dick for rocks.
Don't be fooled though. Nicotine is one of the most addictive drugs in the world. Just because you can buy it in a store does not mean it's addictive powers are not on par or even more so that "harder" drugs. Quitting is a mother fucker.
You're in the right place though. Post role every day, get involved, and lean on those fighting the same battles.
You can do this. You WILL do this.
Quit on...
First - JW good to have you and thanks for the PM. I was a ninja also lying to everyone, looking forward to when my wife would go shopping so I could sneak one in. Pathetic. But we are now both in good company
Secondly - diesel2112 cracks me up. Put me in my place the other day on my intro and provided me with my rock bottom.
That's probably the best thing about this place is accountability and Diesel's tone is great. I'm totally bought in and committed, and love the concept of the daily roll post... it's been a huge help for me mentally giving me something to stand up for.
Back to dipping... this would fall in line with shit that makes no sense... image the fucking cycle we were in just a few short days ago... wake up, lie to your loved one, secretly wait for them to leave you alone, pack poison into your lip, make the mouth feel like absolute shit, then as soon as your done start planning and thinking about the next fuckign moment you can stuff more in.
The greatest part of my quit is this "Time Perception Distortion" change... I'm not spending half of my day counting down time until the next fix I can get so I feel like the days are twice as long...
Luke did you go so far as to keep a tin hidden in the bathroom so you could claim you were taking a shit for like 45 minutes but really pack a dip???
This was a pretty common routine for me...
Remember finding two month old water bottles you filled with spit and stashed somewhere to hide? Fucking nasty.
This is all the old me...
jw
-
Shit almost one month down! This place has been a fucking savior for me, literally. Thanks to everyone who has assisted me so far, I'll continue to need you help along the way! Life is so much better today than when I wrote my introduction.
-
Shit almost one month down! This place has been a fucking savior for me, literally. Thanks to everyone who has assisted me so far, I'll continue to need you help along the way! Life is so much better today than when I wrote my introduction.
4 weeks is no joke. Congrats. Now get back to quitting.
-
Shit almost one month down! This place has been a fucking savior for me, literally. Thanks to everyone who has assisted me so far, I'll continue to need you help along the way! Life is so much better today than when I wrote my introduction.
4 weeks is no joke. Congrats. Now get back to quitting.
haha, thanks brother.
-
Just reading this makes me fucking sick... sometimes I forget about this internal mental battle I used to fight. Hope I never forget how miserable this was.
The problem I face, is one that almost feels like multiple personalities... i can wake up at 8am and say, today's the day, and fast forward six hours after a tough discussion with a client or my boss, I'm losing an internal argument about why I should not go to the store to buy more. The reality... the right side has never won this argument once, or I would not be posting this.
-
Just reading this makes me fucking sick... sometimes I forget about this internal mental battle I used to fight. Hope I never forget how miserable this was.
The problem I face, is one that almost feels like multiple personalities... i can wake up at 8am and say, today's the day, and fast forward six hours after a tough discussion with a client or my boss, I'm losing an internal argument about why I should not go to the store to buy more. The reality... the right side has never won this argument once, or I would not be posting this.
Congrats on winning. Keep it up, daily.
-
Just reading this makes me fucking sick... sometimes I forget about this internal mental battle I used to fight. Hope I never forget how miserable this was.
The problem I face, is one that almost feels like multiple personalities... i can wake up at 8am and say, today's the day, and fast forward six hours after a tough discussion with a client or my boss, I'm losing an internal argument about why I should not go to the store to buy more. The reality... the right side has never won this argument once, or I would not be posting this.
jwright,
You can't AFFORD to NOT remember Day 1.....you forget day one, you lose....I know you've probably read this a couple hundred times....but remember just how BAD the SUCK really was....and vow to never go back there again.
Awesome quit you've got going....keep it up. You are reinforcing the quit highway that others have paved before you and many will walk after you.
-
Just reading this makes me fucking sick... sometimes I forget about this internal mental battle I used to fight. Hope I never forget how miserable this was.
The problem I face, is one that almost feels like multiple personalities... i can wake up at 8am and say, today's the day, and fast forward six hours after a tough discussion with a client or my boss, I'm losing an internal argument about why I should not go to the store to buy more. The reality... the right side has never won this argument once, or I would not be posting this.
jwright,
You can't AFFORD to NOT remember Day 1.....you forget day one, you lose....I know you've probably read this a couple hundred times....but remember just how BAD the SUCK really was....and vow to never go back there again.
Awesome quit you've got going....keep it up. You are reinforcing the quit highway that others have paved before you and many will walk after you.
By my estimation the "right" side has put up a couple of w's lately. That's not easy. Keep stacking up wins.
-
Just reading this makes me fucking sick... sometimes I forget about this internal mental battle I used to fight. Hope I never forget how miserable this was.
The problem I face, is one that almost feels like multiple personalities... i can wake up at 8am and say, today's the day, and fast forward six hours after a tough discussion with a client or my boss, I'm losing an internal argument about why I should not go to the store to buy more. The reality... the right side has never won this argument once, or I would not be posting this.
jwright,
You can't AFFORD to NOT remember Day 1.....you forget day one, you lose....I know you've probably read this a couple hundred times....but remember just how BAD the SUCK really was....and vow to never go back there again.
Awesome quit you've got going....keep it up. You are reinforcing the quit highway that others have paved before you and many will walk after you.
By my estimation the "right" side has put up a couple of w's lately. That's not easy. Keep stacking up wins.
haha, dagranger the wright pun.. Thanks guys, and for the thoughts from CavMan, I agree man and that concept started to scare me, so I made it routine to read my intro every day. Doing all I can to remind myself of the misery I used to live in. Thanks for all the support.
-
Any lurker or newbie that reads your HOF speech will find inspiration from it because it is inspirational. It's uncanny how we all walked down similar roads and we find ourselves after 100 days with a new sense of purpose in life. I'm glad to quit with you daily bro. The next 100 days, we can do this.
-
Much appreciated Sox!!! Proud to quit with you and thanks to all that contributed and assisted me in this thread early on!
-
Dude this is a great intro, and you wrote a killer HOF speech.
It is amazing how good freedom feels, isn't it? This one needs to be at the top for some new members to check out