KillTheCan.org Accountability Forum
Community => Introductions => Topic started by: R34P3R on October 17, 2014, 01:57:00 AM
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Hello, this site seemed like a well informed place of supportive people, loads of places for smoking, but first one I found just for dipping, so I am dropping in to get a little more info. Anyways here is my story.
I think my habit of with the stuff is a bit unusual. About four years back I tried dipping, I liked it did it for a month or so because I had a friend who would share with me. I moved away and I did not continue with dipping. Almost a year later, some stressful situations came up (aka I don't handle break ups well) and I remembered the pleasant feeling of dipping and used it to cope with the break up.
I used it pretty religiously for about 6 months or so, at which point the buzz from it had died, so I would only get a can every month or two when it was time for finals or the like. I never had what I would call an addiction for it, I liked the nicotine buzz in stressful situations. But when that went away I had no interest or need for it, so I went 6 months with out it. I didn't mean to quit, I just stopped like I had never been addicted.
Then after that period I felt cravings for it, that was unusual I had always prided my self in that I was never addicted to the stuff, but here were these cravings. I figured eh, Ill buy a can. I was like wow, this is nice, buzz is back awesome. After a month or so of that, like four cans later, buzz was gone. I decided ok, this shit doesent give out a buzz like it used to, its bad for me, and its expensive. I'm done, I am actualy quiting. Here I am about 6 months later, cravings are back, normaly Id just go get a can, and be done with it for another few months, but I did say I quit, and thats why I am here. Tonight the cravings are really bad, and Im looking for someone to share their thoughts on my position.
Hell if the buzz has not returned Id just throw the can out, I have done it before. I just really want that old buzz cus I am really feeling down this week. I've never been hardcore or anything dont think I ever went through a can faster then a week. I never had an issue putting it down before, and never sought support for it until tonight.
I worry I have created my self a nice delusional bubble that I am some special flower who is an exception to the usual rules of this stuff. Now my bubble may need a firm popping, but before you go and do that, please don't just automatically tear me down because this is a quitting form. Consider that perhaps my relationship with nicotine may be different.
So am I a bad person if I go back on my word to test to see if the buzz is back? I really want that can tonight, but because I said I was done, before I went off and just did it, I wanted to hear peoples thoughts, give people a chance to discourage me, or just cation me that while I may have been an exception so far it may not last so I need to be careful. I really am in need of some support one way or the other.
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Bad person? No, not in my opinion. But it's a risk.
I don't know your brain chemistry, but I do know that not using dip equals zero chance of it turning into a habit you wish you hadn't kept around. And I do know that that feeling is in fact tweaking your brain with a dangerously addictive drug, cheating a dopamine reward out of it.
I quit for six months once back in college. Staying quit would have been a great decision, but it wasn't one I was smart enough to make yet. Good luck with your decision.
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Thanks for the reply, instead of getting that can tonight, I spent that time browsing this forum, some inspiring stuff here. The craving seems to have subsided. It is definitely a risk, one that I should not just take on a whim. Its one thing after a break up, or during finals week. But giving into it on a whim is not something I should do.
I am sure I will be back here, I just hope it wont be before finals which are many months off. At least now I have a place where the date is posted. I am not sure if I am ready to commit to never using again, as there are some situations where I feel it can be appropriate. It was one thing when I said it was done, but once I say it here in a semi public manner such as this there is no going back. Its pretty much been a secret since I first tried it, pretty much no one knows I have even had contact with it.
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Use what you're feeling tonight about to propel you into your quit. Any little bit of discontent towards dipping is a good thing that will give YOU more reason to give it up 100%. After that, read the stories and watch the videos on here. When you have made your decision to quit, climb aboard the KTC train, and we will help you while helping ourselves. You gotta want it though. Don't come in and expect to do this half-assed. Full commitment is the only way you will quit and stay quit. The ball is in your court my man. Make the decision that will affect the rest of your life.
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Holy cow man, I have a similar post on Russian Roulette quit site!!! Every now and then I want to know if it is appropriate to pick up a loaded gun - with only 1 bullet mind you - spin the chamber, and pull the trigger. Only in moderation, right? [/sarcasm]
This is a 100% quit site with people struggling to save their lives. It is a zero tolerance nicotine site, so if you are looking for moderate dip use, this isn't the place for you.
Here's a free tip - don't think about forever, think quit the next 24 hours, hell, think quit the 24 minutes if you have to.
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Don't use. just don't do it. look at the pictures and some of these stories on here. is it really worth it? FUCK NOOOOOO. and take it from every addict here save yourself. Thumble was right, its like playing with a loaded gun. Its worse though because cancer is very slow and painful.
but on the positive if you need help this IS the place for you.
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Nicotine is one of the most addictive substances on this planet. You are no different than anybody else.
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Nicotine is one of the most addictive substances on this planet. You are no different than anybody else.
and itll kill you. no shit, itll really kill you til your dead. come on in and drink the cool aide
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The message I'm getting is that I've only been lucky so far that it has not become a habit, and I only get so many dips(or trigger pulls) before bam, my brain just clicks over from the rare "hey buzz is nice" to "I need that stuff, and stopping has become hell"
Thanks for all the replies, I'm not here to discourage people, I have already quit so that's not what I am here for. I had a moment of weakness, and needed some support to get through the night, thank you everyone who gave it to me.
READ THE FOLLOWING ONLY IF YOU ARE CONFIDENT THAT TALKING ABOUT CONTINUED TOBACCO USE WILL NOT BREAK YOUR EFFORTS SO FAR.
I really am against the use o the stuff, and really agree with and admire all the quitters here. Im not trying to encourage it, but I would like to discuss the concept of moderation. I am a logical guy, I like to explore things from all angles without prejudice. Â And this is the only place I have ever found that has people with enough first hand experience to perhaps actually answer these questions.
I am honestly hoping that someone will tell me that hey "all good things in moderation". Now I know this is supposed to be a website to support people quitting, and I probably should not bring this question here as it could give people trying to quit an excuse to break and mess up on their decision, but its the main reason I am here. Is it really that bad to use the stuff with heavy moderation? Would it really be that bad if I went and grabbed a can to get me through the week as long as I dropped it again for many months after that?
Benjo, you said you gave it up in college, was your story similar to mine? You didn't need it, so you lost interest. Or was it a decision to quit that you didn't stick to in the long run?
While I have never been a big user, where a 2 cans every 6 months was the norm. Until this recent 6 month quit where I actually labeled it that, I followed this guys philosophyÂ
http://everydaysystems.com/lowsmoking/ (http://everydaysystems.com/lowsmoking/)
I wish I could find information that would tell me whether very low moderate use is fine, akin to drinking a soda, or having a beer. But because a situation without regular use, self control, and addiction seem so rare I just can't find info on it. Is there anyone here who started like that, and stayed that way for years as I have? I like to think since I have maintained this for years, that I am playing with a gun that only has a blank round in it. Is there someone with a story like mine that can show me that the gun is always loaded?
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Not really, I started as a strongly anti-smoking guy who was OK with an occasional cigar with the guys, but I'd been a daily smoker for a couple years at that point. I just knew less about what having an addiction meant. I wasn't ever really even pretending I was quitting for good, just that I was still in charge.
I put it down for six months just to prove to myself I was more of a badass than tobacco and any other drug (quit everything but caffeine). I felt great. I took like twenty-seven credit hours that spring, got A's in all but one class. Then, I brought my pipe (pretentious, yeah, I know) and a bag of tobacco with me to my last exam, cause I thought that now that I'd established I was in control, my life was better as a smoker. Then the year after that I decided I wanted to quit, and couldn't. Got hooked on dip as a replacement for most of my smoking.
Ten years, thousands of dollars, a lot of embarrassment, unknown damage to my body, later, I'm getting control back. For good this time.
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The tender age of 13 is a time when children take their first step toward adulthood. ItÂ’s also a time when anything seems possible and consequences are not yet a priority in making decisions.
Gruen Von Behren probably never could have fathomed that the choice he was about to make one night while camping with friends would have irreversible consequences.
One of GruenÂ’s friends offered him some snuff that night, and he accepted.
“I liked it. I liked the way tobacco made me feel. I liked the way tobacco tasted,” he said.
Chewing tobacco was nothing more than a game at first, Gruen said, a game to see who could fit the biggest chew in their mouth, and who could hold it there the longest. Gruen said that he and his friends would see who would get sick from the tobacco, tease them for getting sick and then entice them to use more.
“Here chew this. Now throw up. Blah,” Gruen said mimicking a puking noise. “Here, chew more, you idiot.”
What started as a game quickly became an addiction, but no one could have known how quickly the addiction would create cancer in GruenÂ’s body.
“Halfway through my junior year of high school, after only using tobacco for three years, I noticed a white spot developing on the side of my tongue where I’d been holding my dip in my lip,” he said. “I thought it was going to go away. Well, in nine months this white spot didn’t go away, and what started out as the size of the tip of a pencil had grown completely through my tongue.
“Cancer split my tongue in half. I could take the tip of my tongue, pull it over and expose the whole tumor,” he said.
Gruen hid the cancer from his mother. At night after his family went to sleep he would look at his tongue in the mirror and talk to God.
“God, why are you doing this to me? I haven’t been a bad kid,” he said. “No worse than Mark or Phil who were also my age and using tobacco. Why is this happening to me, God? Make it go away. I’m scared.”
GruenÂ’s mom began questioning him about his slurred speech, drooling and inability to keep food in his mouth.
“I said, ‘Ah, mom, it’s no big deal. It’s just my wisdom teeth coming in. Once they come through I’ll be fine,’” Gruen said.
Without a doctorÂ’s diagnosis, Gruen knew what he had and knew what had to be done, but fear kept him quiet.
“I was 17 years old, and my tongue was split in half by one of the most deadly diseases known to man. The only way they could fix that was by cutting off half of my tongue,” Gruen said. “The thought of what they were going to do to me during the procedure scared me to death. I was petrified. I was a healthy kid until then. I never had a cavity in my mouth.”
His mom was his best friend, and although he didnÂ’t like lying to her, he thought the truth would hurt her more.
“The thought of having to tell her that I was sick with this disease, and hurting my mother that way — I couldn’t do that,” he said. “I couldn’t hurt my mom.”
The justification that by using tobacco products, the only person being hurt is the user is not true, Gruen said.
“People don’t realize how many people they do hurt when they become sick by something like this,” he said.
GruenÂ’s mom became so concerned about the slurred speech and other problems that Gruen was having that she tricked him into going to the dentist. She still believed that it was his wisdom teeth that were bothering him, but GruenÂ’s secret was about to be exposed.
“One day she said she was going to take me shopping so we hopped into the car, and we were driving down the road and my mom drove right past the mall,” he said. “I said, ‘What are you doing woman? Right there was the mall. Are you losing your mind in your old age?’” However, his mom knew right where she was going.
“She pulled in at the doctor’s office. She pulled into a parking spot, got out of the car and with a tear in her eye she looked at me and said, ‘Damn it, Gruen, I didn’t want to bring you here today. I know you’re slobbering on yourself, you can’t talk, and you can’t eat. I know you’re hurting, son,’” Gruen said.
The appointment was to pull his wisdom teeth, and Gruen had to confess what was really wrong soon after sitting in the dentistÂ’s chair.
“The doctor walked me to my room. He picked up the gas mask. He said five words to me, and here he comes to put me to sleep,” Gruen said. “I said, ‘Wait a minute.’”
Gruen admitted to the dentist and his mother that the problem wasnÂ’t his wisdom teeth, but cancer. It only took a quick look by the dentist to confirm that it was cancer.
“I never saw my mother cry like that,” he said. “Not only had I hurt myself, but I hurt her, too.”
From the beginning, since Gruen had squamous cell carcinoma, he was given a 75 percent chance that the cancer would kill him — not very good odds to a 17-year-old.
People donÂ’t realize how serious oral cancer is, Gruen said. He said to think about how close the mouth is to the spine and the brain.
“Once it hits one of these two places, it’s checkout time,” he said.
The road since the cancer was confirmed has been long and devastating, but Gruen lived through it to tell his tale. In fact, that is exactly what he does now.
Gruen is a national spokesperson for Oral Health AmericaÂ’s National Spit Tobacco Education Program (NSTEP). Oral Health AmericaÂ’s mission is to increase public awareness of oral healthÂ’s importance to total health, and NSTEP was created to educate people about the dangers of spit tobacco use.
“With my job, I travel throughout the United States. I talk to kids. I talk to doctors and lawyers,” Gruen said. “I talk to different professional athletes about the dangers of tobacco use. I do MTV, ESPN, so a lot of very important people take what I have to say to heart.”
Tobacco companies donÂ’t target current users, Gruen said. Current users are already addicted. Tobacco companies are recruiting kids to step up and become their new customers. While there were plenty of messages about how using tobacco was cool, Gruen said that there werenÂ’t messages about the consequences.
“When I was 13 years old and had never used tobacco, nobody showed me a picture of this,” Gruen said indicating toward his face. “Nobody told me that this is what cancer was. Nobody told me that cancer meant 33 surgeries. They didn’t tell me that it meant thousands of treatments.”
Gruen said that he was an innocent kid who was victimized by big tobacco companies. Gruen now uses his experience as a way to reach people and let them know the dangers that tobacco companies seem to omit in their advertisements. After all, death and cancer are not the most attractive selling points.
“Tobacco is the only product in the United States today — the only product that is sold over the counter that if you use it as it is directed to use it, it will kill you.”
Smoking is just as dangerous, Gruen said.
“I know a lot of people who look just like this who smoke.”
GruenÂ’s slurred speech is a constant reminder to him of the price he paid to chew tobacco, but he hopes it will also be a reminder to other people.
“I know that I’m hard to understand. I’ve had 33 surgeries to my mouth and to my neck. They took out half of my tongue because of the cancer that I had. Not everything that I say comes out just how I want it to, and I apologize for that,” he said. “If you listen closely I think you’ll get my message here today.”
Through the surgeries, Gruen has had bone removed from his back and leg as well as muscle from his chest in attempt to help repair some of the damage left by the cancer. In April, he is scheduled for yet another surgery.
Now at 27, Gruen said that he is just an ordinary guy, but his persistence in sharing his story in attempt to help save other people is inspirational. Besides being the national spokesperson for Oral Health America, heÂ’s also recently been contracted out by the NCAA.
Gruen said that he loves to travel and speak to audiences about the dangers of tobacco so that they can make an educated decision.
“If somebody would have come to me when I was 13, looking like this, and told me that tobacco did that to them — I know in my heart I would have taken a different path in life,” he said. Tobacco use and cancer turned out to be his path in life instead, but Gruen hasn’t let it hold him back.
“I don’t really see this as a limitation,” he said. “I really think I took a bad thing and made the best out of it I can.”
Besides educating other people about tobacco, Gruen has also taken time for educating himself. He has a degree in nursing, although considering all the time heÂ’s spent in hospitals from his surgeries, heÂ’s not sure if thatÂ’s something he will pursue further.
For the future, Gruen plans to continue educating people for as long as he can so that other people might not take the same path that he did.
“I’m (traveling) out in America and talk to kids every day because of this — because of the passion and the caring that I have for people. My life has been ruined because of something that I used to put in my lip,” Gruen said. “I put it in my lip because I was so naïve of the dangers. I did not know how dangerous this product was.”
That's why we are all quit and this is not something that is "ok" with moderation.
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This is a forum for addicts who are committed to keeping dip out of their lives at all times, no matter what. So you should be able to figure out relatively easily that the responses you get will follow suit.
Brain chemistry is a funny thing. That's why there are social drinkers and there are raging alcoholics. Being a dip addict might as well be compared to being an alcoholic, but it's not talked about in the same light because when you dip you don't get behind a car and kill someone. You just kill yourself. A lot more slowly.
I am not a fundamentalist. I do recognize that not everyone's brain chemistry is the same. That's why there is clinical depression and there's people who just get sad when sad situations arise.
That being said, you've done a good job of being a moderate dipper so far. But why run the risk of allowing it to slowly become your thing? Sometimes it is hard to tell if a substance is evolving into your drug of choice because of mission creep. But only you can be the one to answer that truthfully.
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To come in here, knowing full well that this is a QUIT site (not a moderation site) and try to have a conversation about the very thing we warn all addicts about (you can have just one) is bullshit. I understand it doesn't have a grip on you (yet). You damn well better realize the grip it has on almost everyone here fighting for their lives every day. To come in here and talk about moderation is akin to coming into an AA meeting and discussing having "just one" beer. Knock . it . the . fuck . off.
Show some respect, or GTFO. There is one thing that is for DAMN sure here ... it's not a site for moderation.
If you can, realize my stance carries some venom because your question is self-centered and does not consider the effects it may have. Also, unregistered guests come here, and have the ability to read your intro, especially with links in it that lead to the wrong mindset!. The last fucking thing I want someone with a horrible addiction to read is "do you think I could use in moderation"?
'finger point' 'Finger'
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To come in here, knowing full well that this is a QUIT site (not a moderation site) and try to have a conversation about the very thing we warn all addicts about (you can have just one) is bullshit. I understand it doesn't have a grip on you (yet). You damn well better realize the grip it has on almost everyone here fighting for their lives every day. To come in here and talk about moderation is akin to coming into an AA meeting and discussing having "just one" beer. Knock . it . the . fuck . off.
Show some respect, or GTFO. There is one thing that is for DAMN sure here ... it's not a site for moderation.
If you can, realize my stance carries some venom because your question is self-centered and does not consider the effects it may have. Also, unregistered guests come here, and have the ability to read your intro, especially with links in it that lead to the wrong mindset!. The last fucking thing I want someone with a horrible addiction to read is "do you think I could use in moderation"?
'finger point' 'Finger'
Smeds nailed it, and I'll repeat the theme of my previous post. Would you inject yourself with heroin in moderation? Why not? Nicotine is just as addictive.
You are looking for permission to use chewing tobacco from nicotine addicts, think about that. Either quit, or leave this site.
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He knows it's bad for him and that he shouldn't take it up again. He's not here advocating for moderation, just looking for someone to support the smart part of his mind that knows he's better off not using.
But yeah Reaper, do take into account the weaknesses we all have. It's rude to link to shit about moderation here, whether or not it's applicable to a certain percentage of the population, we've all learned it's not applicable to us.
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It was self centered. I came here looking for support I could not find elsewhere, with no regard for others. I needed it. My impression from the site was this was the place to come to find that. With that In mind I will edit my initial post to not include that part because it is unfair to people who are struggling.
Support for me has never been about encouragement, or listening to close minded organizations who only give the facts that support their argument and ignore the rest. Support for me comes with philosophical discussion and debate. I came here either looking for a wakeup call to get me to commit to quitting completely, or to find some information about moderation I could not find elsewhere. I did need help getting through the night, anti tobbaco websites are useless to me as it is to one sided and refuses to explore the more complicated and unique scenarios, I cant go to friends because A. its still something I keep private, and B. my friends don't have the experience or knowledge in the matter to give really useful info, I would either get "yea you should probably stop", or "eh, I know you have good self control, just keep it in check." I so far can not find information regarding my questions, so I came to the people who know how bad it can be first hand and and wont sugar coat it, but hopefully would be willing to talk with an open mind.
Maybe this is not the place for it, but I can not find anywhere else to go to. I have quit, if its going to stay that way, I need help, and help for me and a few others is logical and practical convincing.
Thank you all for your replies, I did get some of the info I was looking for. I apologize if I did unnecessary damage, I am still here watching, and will respond to those who want to further the discussion, and I may indeed come here looking for the traditional support to stay quit in the future.
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To come in here, knowing full well that this is a QUIT site (not a moderation site) and try to have a conversation about the very thing we warn all addicts about (you can have just one) is bullshit. I understand it doesn't have a grip on you (yet). You damn well better realize the grip it has on almost everyone here fighting for their lives every day. To come in here and talk about moderation is akin to coming into an AA meeting and discussing having "just one" beer. Knock . it . the . fuck . off.
Show some respect, or GTFO. There is one thing that is for DAMN sure here ... it's not a site for moderation.
If you can, realize my stance carries some venom because your question is self-centered and does not consider the effects it may have. Also, unregistered guests come here, and have the ability to read your intro, especially with links in it that lead to the wrong mindset!. The last fucking thing I want someone with a horrible addiction to read is "do you think I could use in moderation"?
'finger point' 'Finger'
I wish there was a way to link/hashtag @grizzlyhasclaws to this thread. Because this is exactly the douchebag, cultlike mentality that I'm talking about. Keeps people like me and others who have different viewpoints out of in-depth (or lack thereof) discussion and strictly to roll-posting.
The moment you even BRING UP questions of trophy tins, moderation, social media, etc. you get run off the site. Fucking babies. It's tantamount to ripping down every Skoal ad you see at every gas station and then blowing up the gas station because of YOUR addiction.
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Here's how I look at moderation, honestly.
I think if I was in a pre-industrial society, like the Native Americans, right? They grew tobacco, and used it for special occasions. Addiction seems to have been pretty rare. I think I might be able to use tobacco responsibly in that scenario.
But in this society where there are huge corporations making sure that neatly packaged tobacco is available on every corner, and with additives to make sure it's as addictive as possible, and with a brain that's already become accustomed to unlimited use, it's impossible for me to sustainably be anything between an actively using addict and a formerly using addict.
None of us know your brain. Maybe you could use and quit and use and quit for however long and "get away with it".
But really, what's the upside? Go for a run instead.
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Thank you FKSkoal. I have moved the inconsiderate part of my introduction down to my third post, so it is a little less likely to damage the casual viewer who should not be introduced to moderation as they have enough of a struggle as it is.
However I don't plan on removing it, as while I may be part of a small minority, the questions and discussion I am posting are what some people really need. My posts were written in a respectful manner, before you go saying I am disrespectful keep your own offensive and obscene post in check. It would have been one thing to mention you thought that it was inappropriate, and directed me to a better place to post that. Please keep things civil.
If I am ever going to quit completely, I need to be convinced in a logical manner by people that have an open mind that not everyone has the same experience. There really are people who don't have addictive personalities. I don't respond well to people just telling me what to do. If you can convince me, then you now have an argument against every fellow that says "oh Im not addicted", or the rebilous teenager who does it just because people tell him not to who thinks he is special and is one of the rare exceptions. And also, it will be one more big thing for you to lean on your self, for if these questions ever cross your mind, rather then avoiding it, now you also have the answers I am looking for.
I know I am breaching into some subject matter that may be bad for alot of people. If there is a better place to do this, or a way to put a warning label on it please tell me how.
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I know I am breaching into some subject matter that may be bad for alot of people. If there is a better place to do this, or a way to put a warning label on it please tell me how.
Honestly, who gives a fuck if you offend someone who is weak-minded enough to explode on someone from behind a computer screen for asking a legitimate question? Some people are so soft, my god.
Listen man, this site is good for posting roll to keep you on track with your quit. Other than that, you won't find much room for discussion.
And believe me, if a warning label were enough- none of us would be on this site anyways. We all clearly ignored the big label saying THIS PRODUCT WILL KILL YOU every time we opened a tin.
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Eh, I prefer to diffuse anger when possible rather then ignore it. I feel the editing of my posts should help a little. Afterall I geninuly dont want to be part of the problem that causes people to use.
The upside would be, when I am really down and don't have a romantic partner to turn to, that buzz is the closest thing to comfort I can find.
For the moment unless I find facts that confirm moderation should be ok, I am committed to staying quit one day at a time.
The biggest thing in making that decision for me, was this simple thought process. There are not studies on it. Meaning it could indeed be worse for you, something akin to how second hand smoke can be worse for people then actually smoking because you don't have that resistance built up. Id rather my face did not melt off. I have no interest in being a regular user of the stuff. And if a rare buzz is that dangerous It is best to avoid it.
Thank you for helping me come to that conclusion.
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To come in here, knowing full well that this is a QUIT site (not a moderation site) and try to have a conversation about the very thing we warn all addicts about (you can have just one) is bullshit. I understand it doesn't have a grip on you (yet). You damn well better realize the grip it has on almost everyone here fighting for their lives every day. To come in here and talk about moderation is akin to coming into an AA meeting and discussing having "just one" beer. Knock . it . the . fuck . off.
Show some respect, or GTFO. There is one thing that is for DAMN sure here ... it's not a site for moderation.
If you can, realize my stance carries some venom because your question is self-centered and does not consider the effects it may have. Also, unregistered guests come here, and have the ability to read your intro, especially with links in it that lead to the wrong mindset!. The last fucking thing I want someone with a horrible addiction to read is "do you think I could use in moderation"?
'finger point' 'Finger'
I wish there was a way to link/hashtag @grizzlyhasclaws to this thread. Because this is exactly the douchebag, cultlike mentality that I'm talking about. Keeps people like me and others who have different viewpoints out of in-depth (or lack thereof) discussion and strictly to roll-posting.
The moment you even BRING UP questions of trophy tins, moderation, social media, etc. you get run off the site. Fucking babies. It's tantamount to ripping down every Skoal ad you see at every gas station and then blowing up the gas station because of YOUR addiction.
Look.. I am not here to make friends so I will just say it.
GET THE FUCK OUT! I have spent 269 days battling the nicotine addition that wants like nothing else for me to stuff one more pinch in my fucking mouth. Every day is a battle and its little bitches like you that want to come in here and talk utter bullshit... How the fuck dare you fill my head with thoughts of "oh it is ok in moderation" or "just one won't hurt you".
This is a 100% quit site. No nicotine period. If you want to talk other forms of use or moderation or whatever kind of bullshit you want, there are other sites for that. THis is not the site for you friend.
And yes... That is my douchbag cult like opinion. And yes it is my intention to keep people like you, who think occasional nicotine use is ok away from this site and away from people like me struggling to stay away from my addition.
I love the idea of blowing up gas stations to prevent my addition... thanks.. may have to try that. 'Finger'
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Look.. I am not here to make friends so I will just say it.
GET THE FUCK OUT! I have spent 269 days battling the nicotine addition that wants like nothing else for me to stuff one more pinch in my fucking mouth. Every day is a battle and its little bitches like you that want to come in here and talk utter bullshit... How the fuck dare you fill my head with thoughts of "oh it is ok in moderation" or "just one won't hurt you".
This is a 100% quit site. No nicotine period. If you want to talk other forms of use or moderation or whatever kind of bullshit you want, there are other sites for that. THis is not the site for you friend.
And yes... That is my douchbag cultline opinion. And yes it is my intention to keep people like you, who think occasional nicotine use is ok away from this site and away from people like me struggling to stay away from my addition.
I love the idea of blowing up gas stations to prevent my addition... thanks.. may have to try that. 'Finger'
You piss on all the advances we've made in neurochemistry you if you think addiction is inherently the same in each individual. Guess what- the world isn't flat, either.
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Myself, I could easily discuss this ... because I've slammed the door on the option of failure. I guess the reason I came across strong (and lacking respect) is because I acknowledge that although we all have a different battle going on, MOST of the members here at KTC are truly fighting for their lives, and DO NOT need a discussion about potentials for use again. Every day someone loses that very battle. So although abrasive, I certainly didn't call anyone names (FK?). To appease, a simple edit of my original post:
To come in here, knowing full well that this is a QUIT site (not a moderation site) and try to have a conversation about the very thing we warn all addicts about (you can have just one) is bullshit a little small-sighted. I understand it doesn't have a grip on you (yet). You damn well better I wish you would realize the grip it has on almost everyone here fighting for their lives every day. To come in here and talk about moderation is akin to coming into an AA meeting and discussing having "just one" beer. Knock . it . the . fuck . off. Please consider thinking about the big picture here.
Show some respect, or GTFO at a minimum, reflect a grasp of how difficult it is for some. There is one thing that is for DAMN is for sure here ... it's not a site for moderation.
If you can, realize my stance carries some venom because your question is self-centered and does not consider the effects it may have. Also, unregistered guests come here, and have the ability to read your intro, especially with links in it that lead to the wrong mindset could possibly make them choose to not quit!. The last fucking thing As someone who looks at the big picture here at KTC, I am unsure I want someone with someone battling a horrible addiction to read and think about the question, "do you think I could use in moderation"?
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Reaper,
Read my HOF speech and realize you are not alone.
topic/1011428/1/?x=90#new (http://forum.killthecan.org/topic/1011428/1/?x=90#new)
I also posted an article about a young man named Gruen. He was 17 and had a 25% chance of living through oral cancer. He had 33 surgeries and he beat the odds and is a living reason why we are all here. You may need to read Kern's Story as well.
topic/1008859/1/?x=90 (http://forum.killthecan.org/topic/1008859/1/?x=90)
This is not something we can take lightly and that is why there is no way but hardcore for us. We are all addicts to nicotine. Why do you think you get this feeling that "only one" and that won't hurt me... That is addiction to nicotine calling the shots. No one believes that you are addicted to any substance. Be it alcohol, drugs or tobacco, none of us believed we were addicts till we took a long hard look in the mirror and realized we had a problem with nicotine.
This is not saying that you have an addicted personality either. I (don't believe I do) have an issue with alcohol or drugs. I will have a wine with dinner or a beer or two while watching football and have steered clear of drugs. But I am not thinking of the feeling all day about getting drunk, like you seem to be with tobacco, and that is if I read the intro right... You stayed reading on this site to keep yourself from using.... I believe the nic bitch could be playing mind games with you. If you want to write off the whole site and not realize 100% all in quit is the only way then that is fine and your choice. But it has worked damn well for me and thousands of others here, so we must be doing something right.
Starr- Day 311
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I haven't even read all this ongoing stupidity.
I don't need to.
Quit or leave. It's pretty simple. Stop trying to justify your addiction... It won't work here.
We'll stay right beside you if you wanna quit.
If that's not your goal... Buh-Bye.
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I haven't even read all this ongoing stupidity.
I don't need to.
Quit or leave. It's pretty simple. Stop trying to justify your addiction... It won't work here.
We'll stay right beside you if you wanna quit.
If that's not your goal... Buh-Bye.
Exactly....this is a quit site. If you want to do it in moderation, take the risk, but this site isn't for you.
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Well its a one day thing every 6 months or so, which I would normally just go deal with. But this most recent attempt I actually said I was done, and was surprised with how hard it hit me on that 6 month pattern I have been on. So I came looking for some support to get through the night, and searching for information to see if moderation in nicotine just like alcohol would be ok. I got the support, some very good and helpful stuff, some that made me just want to revert to a rebellious teenager stage and just go do it.
But I have come to the conclusion that unless I can find information about moderation, baring a horrible breakup/maybe finals I am done. I have taken the time to read your speeches and have found them helpful.
...also not reading the whole conversation you miss some pretty key points. If you wont bother with that, then I dont have much to say to you. I am here for help, just like you, I will go about it how I see fit. If the conversation makes you feel weak avoid it, and dont post here. If you want to contribute then actually read it and don't post a close-minded statement that is not even close to accurate about what is going on here.
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I haven't even read all this ongoing stupidity.
I don't need to.
Quit or leave. It's pretty simple. Stop trying to justify your addiction... It won't work here.
We'll stay right beside you if you wanna quit.
If that's not your goal... Buh-Bye.
'trainwreck'
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Well its a one day thing every 6 months or so, which I would normally just go deal with. But this most recent attempt I actually said I was done, and was surprised with how hard it hit me on that 6 month pattern I have been on. So I came looking for some support to get through the night, and searching for information to see if moderation in nicotine just like alcohol would be ok. I got the support, some very good and helpful stuff, some that made me just want to revert to a rebellious teenager stage and just go do it.
But I have come to the conclusion that unless I can find information about moderation, baring a horrible breakup/maybe finals I am done. I have taken the time to read your speeches and have found the helpful.
Seriously...
Moderation applies to the healthier components of life...
Nicotine is not a healthy component of life.
Quit or die an addicts death.
Shut up and just do it...
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I spend time learning about the tobacco industry and their tactics as I find doing so helps me stay focused and stay quit. If the message below does not help you get pissed off at the people who produce, market and sell tobacco I am not sure anything will.
Lies and decpetion
For years, the tobacco industry has known of the health consequences of
tobacco and its addictive component, nicotine. In 1954, tobacco researchers commented,
“It’s fortunate for us that tobacco is a habit consumers can’t break.”
In 1964,an internal British American Tobacco document discussed the issue of nicotine and
addiction, “There seems no doubt that the ‘kick’ of tobacco is due to the concentration
of nicotine in the bloodstream which it achieves, and this is a product
of the quantity of nicotine in the tobacco and the speed of transfer of that nicotine
into the bloodstream.”
In 1969, a Philip Morris researcher bluntly stated, “We have, then, as our first premise, that the primary motivation for tobacco use is to obtain the pharmacological effect of nicotine.” Philip Morris researchers
also concluded: “The cigarette should be conceived not as a product but as a package. The
product is nicotine. The cigarette is but one of many package layers. There
is the carton, which contains the pack, which contains the cigarette, which
contains the smoke. The smoker must strip off all these package layers to get
to that which he seeks Â… Think of a cigarette pack as a storage container for
a dayÂ’s supply of nicotine Â… Think of a cigarette as a dispenser for a dose
unit of nicotine … Think of a puff of smoke as the vehicle of nicotine …”
For Big Tobacco, failure to win the debate over regulating nicotine in tobacco
threatened its existence as an industry. In a 1972 internal memorandum the director
of research for R.J. Reynolds wrote, “If, as proposed above, nicotine is the sine qua non of tobacco use, and if we meekly accept the allegations of our critics and move toward reduction or
elimination of nicotine from our products, then we shall eventually liquidate
our business. If we intend to remain in business and our business is
the manufacture and sale of dosage forms of nicotine, then at some point
we must make a stand.”
For Big Tobacco researchers, the evidence of the addictiveness of nicotine kept
piling up. In a 1983 internal Brown Williamson memorandum, the message was
clear “Nicotine is the addicting agent in tobacco.”
On April 14, 1994, the CEOs of the seven leading tobacco companies testified
under oath in a hearing held by the U.S. Congress House of Representatives
Committee on Energy and Commerce, Subcommittee on Health and the
Environment. Despite extensive internal research on the issue of nicotine and addiction,
Big TobaccoÂ’s executives testified that they believed that nicotine was not
addictive. Below is the transcript of the relevant exchange on that issue:
Rep. Ron Wyden (D-OR): Thank you, Mr. Chairman Â… Let me begin my questioning
on the matter of whether or not nicotine is addictive. Let me ask you first,
and IÂ’d like to just go down the row, whether each of you believes that nicotine is
not addictive. I heard virtually all of you touch on it. Just yes or no. Do you believe
nicotine is not addictive?
Mr. Campbell (President and CEO, Philip Morris, USA): I believe nicotine is not
addictive, yes.
Rep. Wyden: Mr. Johnston?
Mr. Johnston (Chairman and CEO, RJR Tobacco Co.): Congressman, cigarettes
and nicotine clearly do not meet the classic definitions of addiction. There is no
intoxication.
Rep. Wyden: We’ll take that as a no and, again, time is short. If you can just — I
think each of you believe nicotine is not addictive. We just would like to have this
for the record.
Mr. Taddeo (President, US Tobacco Co.): I donÂ’t believe that nicotine or our products
are addictive.
Mr. Horrigan (Chairman and CEO, Liggett Group): I believe nicotine is not
addictive.
Mr. Tisch (Chairman and CEO, Lorillard Tobacco Co.): I believe that nicotine is
not addictive.
Mr. Sandefur (Chairman and CEO, Brown Williamson Tobacco Corp.): I
believe that nicotine is not addictive.
Mr. Donald Johnston (President and CEO, American Tobacco Co.): And I, too,
believe that nicotine is not addictive.
As pressure in the U.S. has increased to curb its marketing to children, Big
Tobacco has focused more of its advertising in developing nations. A World Health
Organization (WHO)-Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) study
found that 11 percent of children in Latin America and the Caribbean were offered
tobacco by company representatives in 1999 and 2000. In Russia, nearly 17
percent said they were given free tobacco products. In Jordan, it was a whopping 25 percent!
These efforts are found all over the world. According to Vera da Costa e Silva,
director of the WHOÂ’s tobacco program, Big Tobacco is making a big move to hook
children outside of the United States:
“This is the right time for the tobacco industry to seduce children overseas.
They are looking to increase the number of users in developing countries
and elsewhere abroad because in the United States they are losing their market shares.
Tobacco kills an estimated four million people around the globe each year.
Because of growing international sales, experts believe that by the year 2020, one in
three adult deaths in the world will be caused by smoking and other tobacco use.
And these experts believe that by the year 2030, over ten million deaths worldwide
will be caused each year by tobacco use. Tobacco is expected to be the leading cause
of death worldwide in less than thirty years; 70 percent of these deaths will occur in
developing countries.
Other global practices by Big Tobacco have come under fire:
• 520,000 children work on tobacco farms in Brazil, and a third of them
are under the age of 14 years old.
• Children in southern Brazil are removed from classes before the end of
the school year to help with the harvest the tobacco crop.
• The average monthly income for a tobacco-growing family in Brazil is
334 Reals, the equivalent of $137.
Understand that to Big tobacco you are nothing more than “a percentage of market share” the pain and suffering of you and your lost family members means nothing to these death dealers. They have knowingly marketed and produced a product that when used as directed will result in early death for the people who use it. If you ever think you miss this shit, read some of the tactics they have used over the years and it should help keep you quit. As I have said before, I will set my money on fire before I ever give these people one cent of it.
NEVER AGAIN
These are the people, that we have all given our time and money to, that are behind the "buzz" which you are finding harder and harder to resist. Guess why? Nicotine is tied with crack cocaine as the 2nd most addictive substance behind only heroin.
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I haven't even read all this ongoing stupidity.
I don't need to.
Quit or leave. It's pretty simple. Stop trying to justify your addiction... It won't work here.
We'll stay right beside you if you wanna quit.
If that's not your goal... Buh-Bye.
I guess if you say "not gonna even bother reading this", I can't accuse you of poor reading comprehension, can I.
He is stopped, and he told himself he's quit, as of six months ago, but he's wavering.
The talk about using in moderation, that's not him advocating it, it's the pre-addict part of his dopamine system trying to get him to give up his quit.
Reaper, you've given your brain hundreds, maybe thousands of doses of nicotine. Your brain loves that shit, because as far as it can tell, each one of those dopamine rushes was for bringing down a buffalo or bedding the chief's daughter. Your brain remembers. It wants that again.
I think it's an interesting, and open, question whether or not that's a symptom of addiction. You certainly haven't gotten away with using dip without modifying your brain, and I think if you reflect on that, it'll be obviously true to you.
You're not in the immediate hold of nicotine, so just try to be rational when you think about picking up another can. What's the upside? Cheap dopamine rush. What's the potential (probable) downside? A disgusting, expensive, embarrassing addiction. Maybe cancer.
Again, good luck with your decision. If you decide you're really, really, done with it, and want some backup, come join us in the Shell.
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I haven't even read all this ongoing stupidity.
I don't need to.
Ah, failure to read: the same mentality applied to warning labels on every tin you opened. And yet we're all quick to blame big tobacco for brainwashing us. As if our own personal choices make no difference in the matter.
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Look.. I am not here to make friends so I will just say it.
GET THE FUCK OUT! I have spent 269 days battling the nicotine addition that wants like nothing else for me to stuff one more pinch in my fucking mouth. Every day is a battle and its little bitches like you that want to come in here and talk utter bullshit... How the fuck dare you fill my head with thoughts of "oh it is ok in moderation" or "just one won't hurt you".
This is a 100% quit site. No nicotine period. If you want to talk other forms of use or moderation or whatever kind of bullshit you want, there are other sites for that. THis is not the site for you friend.
And yes... That is my douchbag cultline opinion. And yes it is my intention to keep people like you, who think occasional nicotine use is ok away from this site and away from people like me struggling to stay away from my addition.
I love the idea of blowing up gas stations to prevent my addition... thanks.. may have to try that. 'Finger'
You piss on all the advances we've made in neurochemistry you if you think addiction is inherently the same in each individual. Guess what- the world isn't flat, either.
Go to one of the other sites that quits the way your neurochemistry works. This site quits the way my neurochemistry works.
PS, you're a hypocritical douche. You're doing the exact thing you're railing against.
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I haven't even read all this ongoing stupidity.
I don't need to.
Quit or leave. It's pretty simple. Stop trying to justify your addiction... It won't work here.
We'll stay right beside you if you wanna quit.
If that's not your goal... Buh-Bye.
I guess if you say "not gonna even bother reading this", I can't accuse you of poor reading comprehension, can I.
He is stopped, and he told himself he's quit, as of six months ago, but he's wavering.
The talk about using in moderation, that's not him advocating it, it's the pre-addict part of his dopamine system trying to get him to give up his quit.
Reaper, you've given your brain hundreds, maybe thousands of doses of nicotine. Your brain loves that shit, because as far as it can tell, each one of those dopamine rushes was for bringing down a buffalo or bedding the chief's daughter. Your brain remembers. It wants that again.
I think it's an interesting, and open, question whether or not that's a symptom of addiction. You certainly haven't gotten away with using dip without modifying your brain, and I think if you reflect on that, it'll be obviously true to you.
You're not in the immediate hold of nicotine, so just try to be rational when you think about picking up another can. What's the upside? Cheap dopamine rush. What's the potential (probable) downside? A disgusting, expensive, embarrassing addiction. Maybe cancer.
Again, good luck with your decision. If you decide you're really, really, done with it, and want some backup, come join us in the Shell.
Benjo... Your own vocabulary screams your ignorance.
We don't aim for "stopped". It's not acceptable. For you to use that term as a defense of this guy means you need to be quiet and pay attention.
Quit is a mindset that this cat, and you apparently, need to learn.
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I haven't even read all this ongoing stupidity.
I don't need to.
Quit or leave. It's pretty simple. Stop trying to justify your addiction... It won't work here.
We'll stay right beside you if you wanna quit.
If that's not your goal... Buh-Bye.
I guess if you say "not gonna even bother reading this", I can't accuse you of poor reading comprehension, can I.
He is stopped, and he told himself he's quit, as of six months ago, but he's wavering.
The talk about using in moderation, that's not him advocating it, it's the pre-addict part of his dopamine system trying to get him to give up his quit.
Reaper, you've given your brain hundreds, maybe thousands of doses of nicotine. Your brain loves that shit, because as far as it can tell, each one of those dopamine rushes was for bringing down a buffalo or bedding the chief's daughter. Your brain remembers. It wants that again.
I think it's an interesting, and open, question whether or not that's a symptom of addiction. You certainly haven't gotten away with using dip without modifying your brain, and I think if you reflect on that, it'll be obviously true to you.
You're not in the immediate hold of nicotine, so just try to be rational when you think about picking up another can. What's the upside? Cheap dopamine rush. What's the potential (probable) downside? A disgusting, expensive, embarrassing addiction. Maybe cancer.
Again, good luck with your decision. If you decide you're really, really, done with it, and want some backup, come join us in the Shell.
Benjo... Your own vocabulary screams your ignorance.
We don't aim for "stopped". It's not acceptable. For you to use that term as a defense of this guy means you need to be quiet and pay attention.
Quit is a mindset that this cat, and you apparently, need to learn.
I get the difference, that's exactly why I used the words I used.
Sorry, Reaper, if having a fight in your thread isn't helpful. I'm trying to back up the part of you that wants to actually be done, quit, finished, instead of just stopped until next time.
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Benjo... Your own vocabulary screams your ignorance.
We don't aim for "stopped". It's not acceptable. For you to use that term as a defense of this guy means you need to be quiet and pay attention.
Quit is a mindset that this cat, and you apparently, need to learn.
Don't even bother, Benjo.
There are individuals who clearly are not interested in a real discussion in determining the neurochemistry and psychology of addiction and how each person has different coping mechanisms. Instead, he'd rather berate you on terminology from his high 10,000 post horse. smh
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The neurochemistry straw man reminds me of this (http://assets.sbnation.com/assets/838211/JohnsonSwingMiss.gif.opt.gif)
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The neurochemistry straw man reminds me of this (http://assets.sbnation.com/assets/838211/JohnsonSwingMiss.gif.opt.gif)
The fact that you would associate neurochemistry with a straw man argument reveals your deep ignorance as well as irreverence of the work that scientific researchers do on a daily basis to keep people like us away from nicotine and ultimately save lives.
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holy shit, I need to put on my nerd glasses just to read these words in here.
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I haven't even read all this ongoing stupidity.
I don't need to.
Quit or leave. It's pretty simple. Stop trying to justify your addiction... It won't work here.
We'll stay right beside you if you wanna quit.
If that's not your goal... Buh-Bye.
I guess if you say "not gonna even bother reading this", I can't accuse you of poor reading comprehension, can I.
He is stopped, and he told himself he's quit, as of six months ago, but he's wavering.
The talk about using in moderation, that's not him advocating it, it's the pre-addict part of his dopamine system trying to get him to give up his quit.
Reaper, you've given your brain hundreds, maybe thousands of doses of nicotine. Your brain loves that shit, because as far as it can tell, each one of those dopamine rushes was for bringing down a buffalo or bedding the chief's daughter. Your brain remembers. It wants that again.
I think it's an interesting, and open, question whether or not that's a symptom of addiction. You certainly haven't gotten away with using dip without modifying your brain, and I think if you reflect on that, it'll be obviously true to you.
You're not in the immediate hold of nicotine, so just try to be rational when you think about picking up another can. What's the upside? Cheap dopamine rush. What's the potential (probable) downside? A disgusting, expensive, embarrassing addiction. Maybe cancer.
Again, good luck with your decision. If you decide you're really, really, done with it, and want some backup, come join us in the Shell.
Benjo... Your own vocabulary screams your ignorance.
We don't aim for "stopped". It's not acceptable. For you to use that term as a defense of this guy means you need to be quiet and pay attention.
Quit is a mindset that this cat, and you apparently, need to learn.
I get the difference, that's exactly why I used the words I used.
Sorry, Reaper, if having a fight in your thread isn't helpful. I'm trying to back up the part of you that wants to actually be done, quit, finished, instead of just stopped until next time.
Exactly!
That's my point man. Quit is where you wanna be... No more waffling.
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The neurochemistry straw man reminds me of this (http://assets.sbnation.com/assets/838211/JohnsonSwingMiss.gif.opt.gif)
The fact that you would associate neurochemistry with a straw man argument reveals your deep ignorance as well as irreverence of the work that scientific researchers do on a daily basis to keep people like us away from nicotine and ultimately save lives.
I though he was referencing you ...
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The neurochemistry straw man reminds me of this (http://assets.sbnation.com/assets/838211/JohnsonSwingMiss.gif.opt.gif)
The fact that you would associate neurochemistry with a straw man argument reveals your deep ignorance as well as irreverence of the work that scientific researchers do on a daily basis to keep people like us away from nicotine and ultimately save lives.
Its a straw man because no matter where you fall on the discussion it is fucking irrelevant to whether you can dip and use this website at the same time. But keep promoting your false intellectual bullshit, it is very compelling and interesting.
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Pompous pseudo-intellectuals are my favorite. Fire up the Socratic method Lipi!
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The neurochemistry straw man reminds me of this (http://assets.sbnation.com/assets/838211/JohnsonSwingMiss.gif.opt.gif)
The fact that you would associate neurochemistry with a straw man argument reveals your deep ignorance as well as irreverence of the work that scientific researchers do on a daily basis to keep people like us away from nicotine and ultimately save lives.
You mean like how big tobacco and big pharmacy have together created a belief that nicotine replacement therapy is the only way to quit and has spent billions of dollars advertising these "products" that ultimately make them profit, and help very few people quit for good? Or how they've generated a belief amongst the commoners that cold turkey isn't possible, when in actuality it is the most successful and effective method, since our brains have forever been modified by the consumption of nicotine? Hows that for neuroscience?
We are all addicted. Our brains are very similar, and our brains react to nicotine in a very similar manner. You are not special. I am not special. I'm just another addict who is free, and who has burned all boats, bridges, hovercraft, etc that lead back to nicotine slavery. You sound like you've got one foot in the boat heading back.
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The neurochemistry straw man reminds me of this (http://assets.sbnation.com/assets/838211/JohnsonSwingMiss.gif.opt.gif)
The fact that you would associate neurochemistry with a straw man argument reveals your deep ignorance as well as irreverence of the work that scientific researchers do on a daily basis to keep people like us away from nicotine and ultimately save lives.
You mean like how big tobacco and big pharmacy have together created a belief that nicotine replacement therapy is the only way to quit and has spent billions of dollars advertising these "products" that ultimately make them profit, and help very few people quit for good? Or how they've generated a belief amongst the commoners that cold turkey isn't possible, when in actuality it is the most successful and effective method, since our brains have forever been modified by the consumption of nicotine? Hows that for neuroscience?
We are all addicted. Our brains are very similar, and our brains react to nicotine in a very similar manner. You are not special. I am not special. I'm just another addict who is free, and who has burned all boats, bridges, hovercraft, etc that lead back to nicotine slavery. You sound like you've got one foot in the boat heading back.
I thought for a minute there you were going with a "FKSkoal is a big tobacco plant" theory. Damn.
'Popcorn'
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Benjo... Your own vocabulary screams your ignorance.
We don't aim for "stopped". It's not acceptable. For you to use that term as a defense of this guy means you need to be quiet and pay attention.
Quit is a mindset that this cat, and you apparently, need to learn.
Don't even bother, Benjo.
There are individuals who clearly are not interested in a real discussion in determining the neurochemistry and psychology of addiction and how each person has different coping mechanisms. Instead, he'd rather berate you on terminology from his high 10,000 post horse. smh
I was a young aspiring neuroscientist for a while, but I don't see the point you're trying to make with the neuroscience angle, either. No, we're not wired all the same way, but there's an overarching principle to this site, and it's an effective one at achieving what really should be every tobacco user's goal: to put it in the rearview. It's just not a good habit to have, addict or 'casual'.
Our initial advice was very much the same: "Why take the risk?" I don't see why we're veering so far away from that into science and semantics.
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Let me break it down for you R3, based on MY EXPERIENCES.
You are becoming addicted to nicotine. Plain and simple.
I started in moderation as well. A can a month, just when I golfed, only when I played poker, just to relax, after a good meal...and the reasons kept on growing. But I never thought of myself as an addict, just a moderate user...like you.
15 years layer I was banging through two cans a day and it was unfortunately a part of who I was. I was a nicotine addict.
In my humble opinion, you're headed down a similar path and you would be wise to QUIT not STOP. There is a difference.
If you're serious about quitting, stay and we can help. If you want to go on thinking you can continue using in moderation, then I wish you the best of luck as this site is not built for that.
You're either quit or you're not. You're either a 1 or a zero. We'd love to add another 1 to our collection.
Up to you, Bub...
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The neurochemistry straw man reminds me of this (http://assets.sbnation.com/assets/838211/JohnsonSwingMiss.gif.opt.gif)
The fact that you would associate neurochemistry with a straw man argument reveals your deep ignorance as well as irreverence of the work that scientific researchers do on a daily basis to keep people like us away from nicotine and ultimately save lives.
Its a straw man because no matter where you fall on the discussion it is fucking irrelevant to whether you can dip and use this website at the same time. But keep promoting your false intellectual bullshit, it is very compelling and interesting.
Is this what happens on these threads? Arrogant assfuckers debate the merits of nicotine and disparage the way we quit here? I wish I had never seen this thread, but now I have. I won't rest until these fucking idiots either shut the fuck up or get lost.
Moderation idiot, neurochemist dork, and anyone else, (I had to skip ahead because your arguments are mindnumbingly stupid) GET THE FUCK OUT OF HERE. 'Finger'
Fuck you, fuck off.
Shit, when I said I wasn't going to rest until you were gone, I meant I won't rest until after I go out for happy hour, get hammered, then continue this later.
And to the guy who sent me a link, to this huge fucking waste of time that makes my eyes bleed, but now I have to come back because I know it exists, see here (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nc0H8YuKPts)
Edit- I honestly thought this was a philosophical thread "I quit or have I".
I didn't realize I was in the intros.
Is this guy the worst fucking :scowick: ever?
Time to pack it up snowflake. Take your horseshit elsewhere. We don't need a part time user who talks shit to quitters.
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The neurochemistry straw man reminds me of this (http://assets.sbnation.com/assets/838211/JohnsonSwingMiss.gif.opt.gif)
The fact that you would associate neurochemistry with a straw man argument reveals your deep ignorance as well as irreverence of the work that scientific researchers do on a daily basis to keep people like us away from nicotine and ultimately save lives.
Its a straw man because no matter where you fall on the discussion it is fucking irrelevant to whether you can dip and use this website at the same time. But keep promoting your false intellectual bullshit, it is very compelling and interesting.
Is this what happens on these threads? Arrogant assfuckers debate the merits of nicotine and disparage the way we quit here? I wish I had never seen this thread, but now I have. I won't rest until these fucking idiots either shut the fuck up or get lost.
Moderation idiot, neurochemist dork, and anyone else, (I had to skip ahead because your arguments are mindnumbingly stupid) GET THE FUCK OUT OF HERE. 'Finger'
Fuck you, fuck off.
Shit, when I said I wasn't going to rest until you were gone, I meant I won't rest until after I go out for happy hour, get hammered, then continue this later.
And to the guy who sent me a link, to this huge fucking waste of time that makes my eyes bleed, but now I have to come back because I know it exists, see here (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nc0H8YuKPts)
Edit- I honestly thought this was a philosophical thread "I quit or have I".
I didn't realize I was in the intros.
Is this guy the worst fucking :scowick: ever?
Time to pack it up snowflake. Take your horseshit elsewhere. We don't need a part time user who talks shit to quitters.
I think we've found some demand for some new community websites:
Periodicstoppages.com, brainchemistryrus.org, wannabeneuroscientistsoveranalyzingtobaccoandnicotine.edu, anti-cultlikequit.com, saveyourtinsandmakealamp.org, Doingitourwaydespiteadvice.tv, antiestablishmentcessation.org.
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The neurochemistry straw man reminds me of this (http://assets.sbnation.com/assets/838211/JohnsonSwingMiss.gif.opt.gif)
The fact that you would associate neurochemistry with a straw man argument reveals your deep ignorance as well as irreverence of the work that scientific researchers do on a daily basis to keep people like us away from nicotine and ultimately save lives.
Its a straw man because no matter where you fall on the discussion it is fucking irrelevant to whether you can dip and use this website at the same time. But keep promoting your false intellectual bullshit, it is very compelling and interesting.
Is this what happens on these threads? Arrogant assfuckers debate the merits of nicotine and disparage the way we quit here? I wish I had never seen this thread, but now I have. I won't rest until these fucking idiots either shut the fuck up or get lost.
Moderation idiot, neurochemist dork, and anyone else, (I had to skip ahead because your arguments are mindnumbingly stupid) GET THE FUCK OUT OF HERE. 'Finger'
Fuck you, fuck off.
Shit, when I said I wasn't going to rest until you were gone, I meant I won't rest until after I go out for happy hour, get hammered, then continue this later.
And to the guy who sent me a link, to this huge fucking waste of time that makes my eyes bleed, but now I have to come back because I know it exists, see here (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nc0H8YuKPts)
Edit- I honestly thought this was a philosophical thread "I quit or have I".
I didn't realize I was in the intros.
Is this guy the worst fucking :scowick: ever?
Time to pack it up snowflake. Take your horseshit elsewhere. We don't need a part time user who talks shit to quitters.
I think we've found some demand for some new community websites:
Periodicstoppages.com, brainchemistryrus.org, wannabeneuroscientistsoveranalyzingtobaccoandnicotine.edu, anti-cultlikequit.com, saveyourtinsandmakealamp.org, Doingitourwaydespiteadvice.tv, antiestablishmentcessation.org.
FkSkoal is the smartest guy on the site. Just ask him.
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Nevermind.
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The "read this first" gives him permission to post an introduction, even as a current user (which he's not, so far as he's said).
I personally, a week into my quit, haven't taken anything he's said as encouragement to not be a 100% quitter, or "talking shit to me", just as a guy who's not as sure that he wants to never use again. We've all been there, before we came to the obvious and correct decision that the only safe tobacco use is no tobacco use. I don't think that warrants outright hostility.
Reaper, I got yelled at, called a dumbass, etc (for still having an ecig in my house when I started my quit). It's not personal. It's just how things work around here until you demonstrate you're serious about being nicotine-free.
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The neurochemistry straw man reminds me of this (http://assets.sbnation.com/assets/838211/JohnsonSwingMiss.gif.opt.gif)
The fact that you would associate neurochemistry with a straw man argument reveals your deep ignorance as well as irreverence of the work that scientific researchers do on a daily basis to keep people like us away from nicotine and ultimately save lives.
Its a straw man because no matter where you fall on the discussion it is fucking irrelevant to whether you can dip and use this website at the same time. But keep promoting your false intellectual bullshit, it is very compelling and interesting.
Is this what happens on these threads? Arrogant assfuckers debate the merits of nicotine and disparage the way we quit here? I wish I had never seen this thread, but now I have. I won't rest until these fucking idiots either shut the fuck up or get lost.
Moderation idiot, neurochemist dork, and anyone else, (I had to skip ahead because your arguments are mindnumbingly stupid) GET THE FUCK OUT OF HERE. 'Finger'
Fuck you, fuck off.
Shit, when I said I wasn't going to rest until you were gone, I meant I won't rest until after I go out for happy hour, get hammered, then continue this later.
And to the guy who sent me a link, to this huge fucking waste of time that makes my eyes bleed, but now I have to come back because I know it exists, see here (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nc0H8YuKPts)
Edit- I honestly thought this was a philosophical thread "I quit or have I".
I didn't realize I was in the intros.
Is this guy the worst fucking :scowick: ever?
Time to pack it up snowflake. Take your horseshit elsewhere. We don't need a part time user who talks shit to quitters.
I think we've found some demand for some new community websites:
Periodicstoppages.com, brainchemistryrus.org, wannabeneuroscientistsoveranalyzingtobaccoandnicotine.edu, anti-cultlikequit.com, saveyourtinsandmakealamp.org, Doingitourwaydespiteadvice.tv, antiestablishmentcessation.org.
FkSkoal is the smartest guy on the site. Just ask him.
No, even he knows he is an idiot. I deal with his type daily. Compensation.
Kudos by the way on that list of fake websites griz. THAT was funny
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The neurochemistry straw man reminds me of this (http://assets.sbnation.com/assets/838211/JohnsonSwingMiss.gif.opt.gif)
The fact that you would associate neurochemistry with a straw man argument reveals your deep ignorance as well as irreverence of the work that scientific researchers do on a daily basis to keep people like us away from nicotine and ultimately save lives.
Its a straw man because no matter where you fall on the discussion it is fucking irrelevant to whether you can dip and use this website at the same time. But keep promoting your false intellectual bullshit, it is very compelling and interesting.
Is this what happens on these threads? Arrogant assfuckers debate the merits of nicotine and disparage the way we quit here? I wish I had never seen this thread, but now I have. I won't rest until these fucking idiots either shut the fuck up or get lost.
Moderation idiot, neurochemist dork, and anyone else, (I had to skip ahead because your arguments are mindnumbingly stupid) GET THE FUCK OUT OF HERE. 'Finger'
Fuck you, fuck off.
Shit, when I said I wasn't going to rest until you were gone, I meant I won't rest until after I go out for happy hour, get hammered, then continue this later.
And to the guy who sent me a link, to this huge fucking waste of time that makes my eyes bleed, but now I have to come back because I know it exists, see here (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nc0H8YuKPts)
Edit- I honestly thought this was a philosophical thread "I quit or have I".
I didn't realize I was in the intros.
Is this guy the worst fucking :scowick: ever?
Time to pack it up snowflake. Take your horseshit elsewhere. We don't need a part time user who talks shit to quitters.
I think we've found some demand for some new community websites:
Periodicstoppages.com, brainchemistryrus.org, wannabeneuroscientistsoveranalyzingtobaccoandnicotine.edu, anti-cultlikequit.com, saveyourtinsandmakealamp.org, Doingitourwaydespiteadvice.tv, antiestablishmentcessation.org.
FkSkoal is the smartest guy on the site. Just ask him.
No, even he knows he is an idiot. I deal with his type daily. Compensation.
Kudos by the way on that list of fake websites griz. THAT was funny
My only problem with this piece of shit thread is the amount of attention that it is getting.
If this dude wants to be a "part time addict", I wish him luck. No such thing, but I'll throw my support behind peeps that wanna quit. I don't support weekend cocaine users or vodka drunks that switch to beer either. I sure hope your next little buzz isn't the one that chews your pretty face off with cancer.
Good luck.
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I was a young aspiring neuroscientist for a while, but I don't see the point you're trying to make with the neuroscience angle, either. No, we're not wired all the same way, but there's an overarching principle to this site, and it's an effective one at achieving what really should be every tobacco user's goal: to put it in the rearview. It's just not a good habit to have, addict or 'casual'.
Our initial advice was very much the same: "Why take the risk?" I don't see why we're veering so far away from that into science and semantics.
I'm not going to dignify the posts by some of the inflammatory messages to me in this thread with direct, individual responses. They come across as so angry that it sounds like they are in day 3 of their quit. Pseudo-intellectual, blah blah blah. But you have been reasonable and open to discussion.
To me, discussing neuroscience is not an angle or semantics- simply a point of discussion relevant to why we're all here. To deny this element and the small victories that are won each day in this field - largely unnoticed by the public - is actually in my opinion taking two steps back in terms of sending big tobacco a message. The fact remains that although this is a cold turkey site, not everyone is built to do it. There are myriad success stories of people using alternative weaning methods- we should not tolerate it on this site, but we should not act like we're better than them, either. We're all wired differently. And that's not even getting into the psychology side of the discussion, which is another issue in and of itself.
The point I guess I'm trying to make is that everyone has different coping mechanisms in their quit. My own quit was called into question in some other thread because I follow accounts on instagram and youtube which glorify dipping. To act as though this has not helped my quit would be a lie.
The OP of this thread came here looking for answers and was instead met with GTFO by some. This is not only the height of douchebaggery, but it exposes people's own insecurities in their quit. Maybe they wish they could also be token dippers, buying a tin once every six months perhaps. Who knows. I'm not here to psychoanalyze anyone. You don't know me and I don't know you. We're all ones and zeros on a screen. Aside from a few discussions, I'm just here to post roll and found the OPs dilemma interesting.
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I was a young aspiring neuroscientist for a while, but I don't see the point you're trying to make with the neuroscience angle, either. No, we're not wired all the same way, but there's an overarching principle to this site, and it's an effective one at achieving what really should be every tobacco user's goal: to put it in the rearview. It's just not a good habit to have, addict or 'casual'.
Our initial advice was very much the same: "Why take the risk?" I don't see why we're veering so far away from that into science and semantics.
I'm not going to dignify the posts by some of the inflammatory messages to me in this thread with direct, individual responses. They come across as so angry that it sounds like they are in day 3 of their quit. Pseudo-intellectual, blah blah blah. But you have been reasonable and open to discussion.
To me, discussing neuroscience is not an angle or semantics- simply a point of discussion relevant to why we're all here. To deny this element and the small victories that are won each day in this field - largely unnoticed by the public - is actually in my opinion taking two steps back in terms of sending big tobacco a message. The fact remains that although this is a cold turkey site, not everyone is built to do it. There are myriad success stories of people using alternative weaning methods- we should not tolerate it on this site, but we should not act like we're better than them, either. We're all wired differently. And that's not even getting into the psychology side of the discussion, which is another issue in and of itself.
The point I guess I'm trying to make is that everyone has different coping mechanisms in their quit. My own quit was called into question in some other thread because I follow accounts on instagram and youtube which glorify dipping. To act as though this has not helped my quit would be a lie.
The OP of this thread came here looking for answers and was instead met with GTFO by some. This is not only the height of douchebaggery, but it exposes people's own insecurities in their quit. Maybe they wish they could also be token dippers, buying a tin once every six months perhaps. Who knows. I'm not here to psychoanalyze anyone. You don't know me and I don't know you. We're all ones and zeros on a screen. Aside from a few discussions, I'm just here to post roll and found the OPs dilemma interesting.
Did I miss where the OP of this thread said he was seeking "alternative weening methods"?
I'm no neuroscience guru, but to me it sounds like the dude is in denial about becoming truly addicted to nicotine.
If he wants to seek other methods of weening, then he should find another site that caters to that approach.
Ktc doesn't operate like that.
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Yes, apparently you missed a pretty big part of the context. I have quit, cold turky. Its been 6 months. In the past I stopped using because I just lost interest, usually for 6 months at a time. That 6 month mark hit, and the craving kicked in the other night. I came here looking for support to get through the night. I made it very clear I was against the use of the stuff, and supported everyone's mission here. However I did not think that the close minded, 100% commitment with time roll posting was for me. I wanted to open up a discussion about was I really in the wrong having a can every 6 months or when I was in a situation that I was going to either kill my self or someone else if I could not find some comfort?
I never encouraged anyone to try this moderate use thing, I just wanted to talk about it. I did not want to commit to something that should I run into one of those suicidal situations again that I would be banned from going to nicotine to get through the night, and if I broke then I would just hate my self all the more.
I wanted to see if there was anyone who had a success or fail story with using it so sparingly. There was no info anywhere on that kind of thing, because it does not seem to be done. If I, and people like me are ever going to reach a point where we can commit completely, we need to have all the answers, including the stuff I am talking about. And when these questions cross your minds, if you help me answer them, then you will also have the answers.
I thought this was a place that was here to support people in all stages of quitting. Not just for those willing to follow something as strict as what seems to be religious dogma. A few people here helped me, but most were close minded and hostile, who took everything I said waayyyyy out of context and did not read my message as a whole.
Also if you actually took the time to read my posts, I included a good reason to not try doing things in moderation, one I am currently desperately trying to cling to my self to stay quit. If someone acknowledges they have a weakness, and realizes there are a couple situations were use of the stuff could be necessary, we shouldn't be persecuted for being a little different and being willing to think about it. I currently stand by that it is not an option, excluding the afore mentioned dire situation, but I wanted to talk about it. So what happens when people here fail and cave? Do you just berate them and make them feel like shit? That is not support, that is a very toxic environment I don't want to be a part of. A few more GTFOs and I will leave. But I still hope that is not what goes on here, because there is not another place for me to go.
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I was a young aspiring neuroscientist for a while, but I don't see the point you're trying to make with the neuroscience angle, either. No, we're not wired all the same way, but there's an overarching principle to this site, and it's an effective one at achieving what really should be every tobacco user's goal: to put it in the rearview. It's just not a good habit to have, addict or 'casual'.
Our initial advice was very much the same: "Why take the risk?" I don't see why we're veering so far away from that into science and semantics.
I'm not going to dignify the posts by some of the inflammatory messages to me in this thread with direct, individual responses. They come across as so angry that it sounds like they are in day 3 of their quit. Pseudo-intellectual, blah blah blah. But you have been reasonable and open to discussion.
To me, discussing neuroscience is not an angle or semantics- simply a point of discussion relevant to why we're all here. To deny this element and the small victories that are won each day in this field - largely unnoticed by the public - is actually in my opinion taking two steps back in terms of sending big tobacco a message. The fact remains that although this is a cold turkey site, not everyone is built to do it. There are myriad success stories of people using alternative weaning methods- we should not tolerate it on this site, but we should not act like we're better than them, either. We're all wired differently. And that's not even getting into the psychology side of the discussion, which is another issue in and of itself.
The point I guess I'm trying to make is that everyone has different coping mechanisms in their quit. My own quit was called into question in some other thread because I follow accounts on instagram and youtube which glorify dipping. To act as though this has not helped my quit would be a lie.
The OP of this thread came here looking for answers and was instead met with GTFO by some. This is not only the height of douchebaggery, but it exposes people's own insecurities in their quit. Maybe they wish they could also be token dippers, buying a tin once every six months perhaps. Who knows. I'm not here to psychoanalyze anyone. You don't know me and I don't know you. We're all ones and zeros on a screen. Aside from a few discussions, I'm just here to post roll and found the OPs dilemma interesting.
You are the biggest douche I've ever seen on here.
Why are you here?
"Listen man, this site is good for posting roll to keep you on track with your quit. Other than that, you won't find much room for discussion."
You can track your quit on an app on your phone. And you can post roll using a piece of paper and a pencil.
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Yes, apparently you missed a pretty big part of the context. I have quit, cold turky. Its been 6 months. In the past I stopped using because I just lost interest, usually for 6 months at a time. That 6 month mark hit, and the craving kicked in the other night. I came here looking for support to get through the night. I made it very clear I was against the use of the stuff, and supported everyone's mission here. However I did not think that the close minded, 100% commitment with time roll posting was for me. I wanted to open up a discussion about was I really in the wrong having a can every 6 months or when I was in a situation that I was going to either kill my self or someone else if I could not find some comfort?
I never encouraged anyone to try this moderate use thing, I just wanted to talk about it. I did not want to commit to something that should I run into one of those suicidal situations again that I would be banned from going to nicotine to get through the night, and if I broke then I would just hate my self all the more.
I wanted to see if there was anyone who had a success or fail story with using it so sparingly. There was no info anywhere on that kind of thing, because it does not seem to be done. If I, and people like me are ever going to reach a point where we can commit completely, we need to have all the answers, including the stuff I am talking about. And when these questions cross your minds, if you help me answer them, then you will also have the answers.
I thought this was a place that was here to support people in all stages of quitting. Not just for those willing to follow something as strict as what seems to be religious dogma. A few people here helped me, but most were close minded and hostile, who took everything I said waayyyyy out of context and did not read my message as a whole.
Also if you actually took the time to read my posts, I included a good reason to not try doing things in moderation, one I am currently desperately trying to cling to my self to stay quit. If someone acknowledges they have a weakness, and realizes there are a couple situations were use of the stuff could be necessary, we shouldn't be persecuted for being a little different and being willing to think about it. I currently stand by that it is not an option, excluding the afore mentioned dire situation, but I wanted to talk about. So what happens when people here fail and cave? Do you just berate them and make them feel like shit? That is not support, that is a very toxic environment I don't want to be a part of. A few more GTFOs and I will leave. But I still hope that is not what goes on here, because there is not another place for me to go.
If a few more GTFO means you will leave, let me chip in.
GET THE FUCK OUT.
No, this site is not here to "support people in all stages of quitting". There are no stages of quitting here, there is just quit.
Whatever the fuck you are doing, its not quitting.
How we treat cavers is none of your business, you are not here to quit, you are a troll.
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How you define addiction was another topic that we tried to breach and was only met with hostility. I don't think a very rare craving that only happens once in a blue moon where I want a buzz and rush of dopamine to help out on a rough night to be a sign of addiction, especially when if I don't find that buzz, I have no interest, crave, or need for the stuff. Some may still consider that addiction, but before we could talk about it, it got shut down so damn hard. Regardless of whether it is or is not addiction should not matter, point being, my situation is a little different then most.
Why are you still here, only to be hostile? Why would you treat people genuinely in need of help like that? I am done responding to you. I realize a part of this community is toxic, but I still hope that most of it is not. By a few more, I meant a few more people, not just one person repeating them self. Its about if I can find a helpful and supportive community, not just one person being a jerk.
Have some respect for the people who have some questions, and need a slightly different approach then you take. I have respected your methods, and even changed my posts a little to help that cause. Please give me the same dignity.
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How you define addiction was another topic that we tried to breach and was only met with hostility. I don't think a very rare craving that only happens once in a blue moon where I want a buzz and rush of dopamine to help out on a rough night to be a sign of addiction, especially when if I don't find that buzz, I have no interest, crave, or need for the stuff. Some may still consider that addiction, but before we could talk about it, it got shut down so damn hard. Regardless of whether it is or is not addiction should not matter, point being, my situation is a little different then most.
Why are you still here, only to be hostile? Why would you treat people genuinely in need of help like that? I am done responding to you. I realize a part of this community is toxic, but I still hope that most of it is not. By a few more, I meant a few more people, not just one person repeating them self. Its about if I can find a helpful and supportive community, not just one person being a jerk.
Have some respect for the people who have some questions, and need a slightly different approach then you take. I have respected your methods, and even changed my posts a little to help that cause. Please give me the same dignity.
Take your dignity and shove it up your ass.
No one here is interested in your personal thoughts on addiction.
You stated in your previous post you're here "because there is not another place for me to go".
That is fucking bullshit. Go use google. There are a dozen sites like this. You just happen to choose the one where this bullshit is most likely to go over like a turd in the punchbowl? No, you are here to be a fucking asshole.
If not, go use google, and go find a place where people want to debate this stupid shit. We are here to quit nicotine.
Here's another one for you- Get the fuck out.
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Did you go use google to find somewhere to debate nicotine? I'll save you the trouble. Try quitsmokeless.org
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Yes, apparently you missed a pretty big part of the context. I have quit, cold turky. Its been 6 months. In the past I stopped using because I just lost interest, usually for 6 months at a time. That 6 month mark hit, and the craving kicked in the other night. I came here looking for support to get through the night. I made it very clear I was against the use of the stuff, and supported everyone's mission here. However I did not think that the close minded, 100% commitment with time roll posting was for me. I wanted to open up a discussion about was I really in t wrong having a can every 6 months or when I was in a situation that I was going to either kill my self or someone else if I could not find some comfort?
I never encouraged anyone to try this moderate use thing, I just wanted to talk about it. I did not want to commit to something that should I run into one of those suicidal situations again that I would be banned from going to nicotine to get through the night, and if I broke then I would just hate my self all the more.
I wanted to see if there was anyone who had a success or fail story with using it so sparingly. There was no info anywhere on that kind of thing, because it does not seem to be done. If I, and people like me are ever going to reach a point where we can commit completely, we need to have all the answers, including the stuff I am talking about. And when these questions cross your minds, if you help me answer them, then you will also have the answers.
I thought this was a place that was here to support people in all stages of quitting. Not just for those willing to follow something as strict as what seems to be religious dogma. A few people here helped me, but most were close minded and hostile, who took everything I said waayyyyy out of context and did not read my message as a whole.
Also if you actually took the time to read my posts, I included a good reason to not try doing things in moderation, one I am currently desperately trying to cling to my self to stay quit. If someone acknowledges they have a weakness, and realizes there are a couple situations were use of the stuff could be necessary, we shouldn't be persecuted for being a little different and being willing to think about it. I currently stand by that it is not an option, excluding the afore mentioned dire situation, but I wanted to talk about it. So what happens when people here fail and cave? Do you just berate them and make them feel like shit? That is not support, that is a very toxic environment I don't want to be a part of. A few more GTFOs and I will leave. But I still hope that is not what goes on here, because there is not another place for me to go.
Look man, if you really want to quit you need to let go of the idea that dip "does" anything for you.
Dip is not a cure-all. It fills no voids in your life...it only creates more. Your body/brain comes equipped with every thing you need to deal with shit. It doesn't need any help.
Like I said earlier, I chewed for 15 years and was going through two cans a DAY at the end. I wasn't even catching one tenth of a buzz. I was loading up because I was an addict. No different than a damn crack head.
I had no clue how dependant I was on nicotine until I quit. My body literally flipped out. I can honestly say I was completely lost.
I found myself again, but holy fuck was it hard and holy triple fuck do I never want to go through that again.
The way I see it, you THINK you're different but KNOW you're not. You're looking for someone to tell you it's ok if you use once in awhile, or some assurance that if you cave nobody will jump in your shit.
That doesn't happen here. If you were to cave you'd take some lumps and be asked to answer 3 questions...WHEB did it happen, WHY did it happen, and WHAT will you do differently so it doesn't happen again. Then you will be told to get your ass back to posting roll in a new group abd you would have to build your trust up again.
We're kind of Dicks here. We support one another to no end, but we don't do it while cupping your nut sack. There are other sites that do that, but in my eyes all they are really doing by being nice is providing you a soft landing for when you fail, thus decreasing your odds of staying your quit.
Quitsmokeless.com is the pussy site if this is too much for you.
Just being honest here.
Quit on...
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Thanks for the direction, I had not had much luck finding a smokeless site other then this. Ill still check in on this thread since I seem to have started some waves, but it looks like I am probably best moving over there.
I prefer kindness and support, and wish the world was more like that. If this place is like a military boot-camp designed to break you, its not for me.
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Thanks for the direction, I had not had much luck finding a smokeless site other then this. Ill still check in on this thread since I seem to have started some waves, but it looks like I am probably best moving over there.
You are not different nor the first one to start any "waves" here.
Yeah, go over there. You can stop for awhile and then when you cave everyone will tell you, "it's ok. Never quit quitting". That's what you want to hear anyway.
PLEASE heed my warning though...you're once in awhile cravings can flip into full blown addiction/dependency in a millisecond. The bitch of it is, you won't even know it. You will use addict logic to rationalize your continued use and live in a state of denial for many years.
You're playing with fire son. You're best bet is to throw away the matches.
Good luck to you.
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Yep, I don't know if you need this site or not, but I do think you know you need to not listen to that craving. It's that craving voice that people are being dicks to, most of us probably know it better than you do. No one tries to be an asshole for no reason around here, he's just being the guard dog to keep us safe from heretical thoughts towards nicotine. That's kind of ridiculous, right? Except it's not, really. Tobacco takes lives.
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That was a concern I had, and its why I came to a place where people would not sugar coat it. I have set a very strict parameter for my self, only using for a break up, or if its the difference between passing or failing a final. I had hoped that would fly here, as the other sight is a little to gentle. They really just don't seem to be committed. I hope I can find a middle ground somewhere, where people expect you to keep your word and hold you accountable, but also don't make things completely black and white. I just fear about without that support network that the craving will come around and I could find my self more addicted then I thought I was.
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You don't need nicotine. Period.
Just take your thread title here, chop off everything after the comma, and replace it with a period. It's not really that complicated.
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That was a concern I had, and its why I came to a place where people would not sugar coat it. I have set a very strict parameter for my self, only using for a break up, or if its the difference between passing or failing a final. I had hoped that would fly here, as the other sight is a little to gentle. They really just don't seem to be committed. I hope I can find a middle ground somewhere, where people expect you to keep your word and hold you accountable, but also don't make things completely black and white. I just fear about without that support network that the craving will come around and I could find my self more addicted then I thought I was.
This can't be real.
Are you serious with this shit?
"They really just don't seem to be committed"
Exactly. Neither are you. You're made for that place.
By the way, how were you able to gauge their level of commitment in the few minutes since the site was suggested to you, if you've never seen it before? How do you know its too gentle?
This is all bullshit.
Get the fuck out.
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Yes, apparently you missed a pretty big part of the context. I have quit, cold turky. Its been 6 months. In the past I stopped using because I just lost interest, usually for 6 months at a time. That 6 month mark hit, and the craving kicked in the other night. I came here looking for support to get through the night. I made it very clear I was against the use of the stuff, and supported everyone's mission here. However I did not think that the close minded, 100% commitment with time roll posting was for me. I wanted to open up a discussion about was I really in the wrong having a can every 6 months or when I was in a situation that I was going to either kill my self or someone else if I could not find some comfort?
I never encouraged anyone to try this moderate use thing, I just wanted to talk about it. I did not want to commit to something that should I run into one of those suicidal situations again that I would be banned from going to nicotine to get through the night, and if I broke then I would just hate my self all the more.
I wanted to see if there was anyone who had a success or fail story with using it so sparingly. There was no info anywhere on that kind of thing, because it does not seem to be done. If I, and people like me are ever going to reach a point where we can commit completely, we need to have all the answers, including the stuff I am talking about. And when these questions cross your minds, if you help me answer them, then you will also have the answers.
I thought this was a place that was here to support people in all stages of quitting. Not just for those willing to follow something as strict as what seems to be religious dogma. A few people here helped me, but most were close minded and hostile, who took everything I said waayyyyy out of context and did not read my message as a whole.
Also if you actually took the time to read my posts, I included a good reason to not try doing things in moderation, one I am currently desperately trying to cling to my self to stay quit. If someone acknowledges they have a weakness, and realizes there are a couple situations were use of the stuff could be necessary, we shouldn't be persecuted for being a little different and being willing to think about it. I currently stand by that it is not an option, excluding the afore mentioned dire situation, but I wanted to talk about it. So what happens when people here fail and cave? Do you just berate them and make them feel like shit? That is not support, that is a very toxic environment I don't want to be a part of. A few more GTFOs and I will leave. But I still hope that is not what goes on here, because there is not another place for me to go.
If you are relying on an occasional can of snuff to avoid committing suicide, you probably need to get real help that you can't find here or in a can of snuff. I'm not being ugly I'm being dead serious. I would go to a doctor or psychiatrist because no matter the situation if you are seriously contemplating suicide then you need treatment. Tobacco is not necessary for anything unless you are doing organic insect control on your garden.
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I read that as just hyperbole, but yeah, that is kind of a heavy comment there, man.
If you need real help, get it. Some things you just can't do by yourself, I've been there.
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Yup, as I said, me and the end of a serious long-term relationship don't go together well. I did have to get help during those times. I am past that now, but I still have low points because of it. The low point was what prompted me to start this thread(well ok not past the whole thing, but nothing dire). I was able to strengthen my resolve to stay clean because of it, a low point is not an excuse to use that stuff.
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Yup, as I said, me and the end of a serious long-term relationship don't go together well. I did have to get help during those times. I am past that now, but I still have low points because of the past which was what prompted me to start this thread(well ok not past the whole thing, but nothing dire). I was able to strengthen my resolve to stay clean because of it, a low point is not an excuse to use that stuff.
Then end your long term relationship with the nic bitch and come here for help. But we don't sorta quit or half ass quit here. We quit like fuck. Cold turkey. No occasional this or that and yes if you cave you catch hell because every day we promise each other that TODAY we will not use nicotine. And we TRUST each other to keep that promise. One day at a time. If you cave you lied. If you lie how can I trust you to be there if I have a weak moment and need to talk to someone. How do I know you won't tell me it's ok to cave just this once? If you stay here you have to post roll and you have to drink the kool aid. If you don't like the way we quit then GTFO
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Yup, as I said, me and the end of a serious long-term relationship don't go together well. I did have to get help during those times. I am past that now, but I still have low points because of the past which was what prompted me to start this thread(well ok not past the whole thing, but nothing dire). I was able to strengthen my resolve to stay clean because of it, a low point is not an excuse to use that stuff.
Then end your long term relationship with the nic bitch and come here for help. But we don't sorta quit or half ass quit here. We quit like fuck. Cold turkey. No occasional this or that and yes if you cave you catch hell because every day we promise each other that TODAY we will not use nicotine. And we TRUST each other to keep that promise. One day at a time. If you cave you lied. If you lie how can I trust you to be there if I have a weak moment and need to talk to someone. How do I know you won't tell me it's ok to cave just this once? If you stay here you have to post roll and you have to drink the kool aid. If you don't like the way we quit then GTFO
Also. If you are addicted you absolutely cannot ever have nicotine again. If you do you go back to ground zero. That's why when an alcoholic quits they can't even have mouthwash with alcohol in it. And it will get worse every time. If you are not an addict then you shouldn't be here. You don't need us.
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Yup, as I said, me and the end of a serious long-term relationship don't go together well. I did have to get help during those times. I am past that now, but I still have low points because of it. The low point was what prompted me to start this thread(well ok not past the whole thing, but nothing dire). I was able to strengthen my resolve to stay clean because of it, a low point is not an excuse to use that stuff.
I've had to get help too...when I quit.
If you're looking for any qualifiers to your quit, like after a break up or to study, it ain't gonna happen.
This is black and white. There is no gray area here.
Now obviously if your having irrational thoughts then by all means turn to a higher power.
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Post roll or be done here
Please
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I'm just checking here but isn't this a NICOTINE FREE QUIT SITE? I don' thinks its a psychologist's office. WTF? To the OP, Dude this site is for addicts who quit nicotine and need support in that quit. Talking about moderation on here is like pissing into the wind if you haven't figured that out yet. FK, man I am not as much of a hardcore maniac as some on here, but your preachy liberal blather is something else. I'm most likely not half as smart as you but dude nicotine is a fucked up drug that kills people and you indulge peeps that come here with psycho babble BS about everyone is different blah blah blah. Well no shit, everyone is different but this is a QUIT SITE! I don't think we need to encourage any other discussion then quitting and how to quit! I'm with Waste, post roll or move on, there are plenty of other folks who need and want help.
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Are we a cult? I suppose in some ways we are. Recovery from addiction requires focus. It requires dedication. It requires discipline. It is no surprise to me that some would find our approach cult like. The fact of the matter is addicts are a very predictable bunch, neuroscience be damned. We lie, we rationalize, we find reasons to cave... ANY chance of getting around the truth in order to get a fix will be exploited by an addict. We recover from this not by philosophical arguments, but coming to grips with the truth of our situation, and by finding ways to cope and overcome.
The truth is: we are addicts.
The truth is: We cannot have just one. Not today, not tomorrow, not ever.
You want an example of someone who tried moderation? That would be me. Over the years I knew I needed to quit... so I decided that I would "taper" First I would only dip once a half hour.... tomorrow I would add 5 minutes to that. etc until I was up to 24 hours. Seemed like a VERY logical plan to me, seemed reasonable. seemed foolproof.. You know what the end result was? Every day the craves became more and more intense until I bought a can and practically strapped that fucker to my face like a feed bag. Started out as a can a day dipper, ended up using 2 cans when I threw in the towel. I tried this technique MULTIPLE times, and wondering each time why it turned out to be impossible. The law of addiction states : ""Administration of a drug to an addict will cause reestablishment of chemical dependence upon the addictive substance." That law is the reason why moderation does not work with a drug that is physically addictive... and nicotine is nearly at the top of the list of the MOST physically addictive substances on the planet.
Then there were the times that I actually stopped for a little while... cold turkey. EVERY one of those caves was with the intention of just having one once in a while... I was ALWAYS back to my original usage within a week. The law of addiction bit me in the ass once again.
So you have a choice: Continue to be quit by shutting the door on any possibility of just one. OR Continue to think that you can use nicotine in moderation, which in reality will always be a one way street to the slavery of active addiction.
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I was a young aspiring neuroscientist for a while, but I don't see the point you're trying to make with the neuroscience angle, either. No, we're not wired all the same way, but there's an overarching principle to this site, and it's an effective one at achieving what really should be every tobacco user's goal: to put it in the rearview. It's just not a good habit to have, addict or 'casual'.
Our initial advice was very much the same: "Why take the risk?" I don't see why we're veering so far away from that into science and semantics.
I'm not going to dignify the posts by some of the inflammatory messages to me in this thread with direct, individual responses. They come across as so angry that it sounds like they are in day 3 of their quit. Pseudo-intellectual, blah blah blah. But you have been reasonable and open to discussion.
To me, discussing neuroscience is not an angle or semantics- simply a point of discussion relevant to why we're all here. To deny this element and the small victories that are won each day in this field - largely unnoticed by the public - is actually in my opinion taking two steps back in terms of sending big tobacco a message. The fact remains that although this is a cold turkey site, not everyone is built to do it. There are myriad success stories of people using alternative weaning methods- we should not tolerate it on this site, but we should not act like we're better than them, either. We're all wired differently. And that's not even getting into the psychology side of the discussion, which is another issue in and of itself.
The point I guess I'm trying to make is that everyone has different coping mechanisms in their quit. My own quit was called into question in some other thread because I follow accounts on instagram and youtube which glorify dipping. To act as though this has not helped my quit would be a lie.
The OP of this thread came here looking for answers and was instead met with GTFO by some. This is not only the height of douchebaggery, but it exposes people's own insecurities in their quit. Maybe they wish they could also be token dippers, buying a tin once every six months perhaps. Who knows. I'm not here to psychoanalyze anyone. You don't know me and I don't know you. We're all ones and zeros on a screen. Aside from a few discussions, I'm just here to post roll and found the OPs dilemma interesting.
You are the biggest douche I've ever seen on here.
Why are you here?
"Listen man, this site is good for posting roll to keep you on track with your quit. Other than that, you won't find much room for discussion."
You can track your quit on an app on your phone. And you can post roll using a piece of paper and a pencil.
But I don't have a phone nor access to paper and pencil in NYC.