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Community => Introductions => Topic started by: John3:16 on May 07, 2008, 11:08:00 PM

Title: A Higher Power
Post by: John3:16 on May 07, 2008, 11:08:00 PM
My only true quits (yea, more than 1) were when I broke down and asked God to help me...

My quits ended when I stopped asking God for help...

I'm on a quit now...and I won't make that mistake again...

God does not want men hooked on drugs, alcohol, or tabacco...

Call on your quit brothers and call on your Higher Power - he's there, just waiting for your call...

And for anyone who is curious about our lord Jesus Christ and how he can make your life better - feel free to PM me...
Title: Re: A Higher Power
Post by: Turkey on May 08, 2008, 12:34:00 AM
Quote from: John3:16
My only true quits (yea, more than 1) were when I broke down and asked God to help me...

My quits ended when I stopped asking God for help...

I'm on a quit now...and I won't make that mistake again...

God does not want men hooked on drugs, alcohol, or tabacco...

Call on your quit brothers and call on your Higher Power - he's there, just waiting for your call...

And for anyone who is curious about our lord Jesus Christ and how he can make your life better - feel free to PM me...
I called....No answer....I'll try again later. Wait! God can't make me quit, God didn't make me start....I just realized, this whole time I've had the power within myself to quit....I'll give that a try......I'll keep the number handy just in case
Title: Re: A Higher Power
Post by: loot on May 08, 2008, 07:34:00 AM
Quote from: Turkey
Quote from: John3:16
My only true quits (yea, more than 1) were when I broke down and asked God to help me...

My quits ended when I stopped asking God for help...

I'm on a quit now...and I won't make that mistake again...

God does not want men hooked on drugs, alcohol, or tabacco...

Call on your quit brothers and call on your Higher Power - he's there, just waiting for your call...

And for anyone who is curious about our lord Jesus Christ and how he can make your life better - feel free to PM me...
I called....No answer....I'll try again later. Wait! God can't make me quit, God didn't make me start....I just realized, this whole time I've had the power within myself to quit....I'll give that a try......I'll keep the number handy just in case
actually T, you...like the rest of us....just needed to know you weren't alone and have a few brothers to lean on.

LOOT ain't sayin JC can't help a quit...just that he can't hit a curveball
Title: Re: A Higher Power
Post by: John3:16 on May 08, 2008, 07:35:00 AM
Quote from: Turkey
Quote from: John3:16
My only true quits (yea, more than 1) were when I broke down and asked God to help me...

My quits ended when I stopped asking God for help...

I'm on a quit now...and I won't make that mistake again...

God does not want men hooked on drugs, alcohol, or tabacco...

Call on your quit brothers and call on your Higher Power - he's there, just waiting for your call...

And for anyone who is curious about our lord Jesus Christ and how he can make your life better - feel free to PM me...
I called....No answer....I'll try again later. Wait! God can't make me quit, God didn't make me start....I just realized, this whole time I've had the power within myself to quit....I'll give that a try......I'll keep the number handy just in case
Well,

No - God did not make you start...but he certainly approves of your quit and can be a source of strength just like this site and your quit brothers...

Yep - keep his number handy...he waits for your call
Title: Re: A Higher Power
Post by: Mij on May 08, 2008, 07:57:00 AM
Quote from: John3:16
My only true quits (yea, more than 1) were when I broke down and asked God to help me...

My quits ended when I stopped asking God for help...

I'm on a quit now...and I won't make that mistake again...

God does not want men hooked on drugs, alcohol, or tabacco...

Call on your quit brothers and call on your Higher Power - he's there, just waiting for your call...

And for anyone who is curious about our lord Jesus Christ and how he can make your life better - feel free to PM me...
Yep' Was on my hands and knees crying like a sniviling fool asking God for help. One hour later I found this site. 252 days later, QUIT
Title: Re: A Higher Power
Post by: free-at-last! on May 08, 2008, 08:24:00 AM
Quote from: John3:16
Quote from: Turkey
Quote from: John3:16
My only true quits (yea, more than 1) were when I broke down and asked God to help me...

My quits ended when I stopped asking God for help...

I'm on a quit now...and I won't make that mistake again...

God does not want men hooked on drugs, alcohol, or tabacco...

Call on your quit brothers and call on your Higher Power - he's there, just waiting for your call...

And for anyone who is curious about our lord Jesus Christ and how he can make your life better - feel free to PM me...
I called....No answer....I'll try again later. Wait! God can't make me quit, God didn't make me start....I just realized, this whole time I've had the power within myself to quit....I'll give that a try......I'll keep the number handy just in case
Well,

No - God did not make you start...but he certainly approves of your quit and can be a source of strength just like this site and your quit brothers...

Yep - keep his number handy...he waits for your call
I agree with you 100%, John. I'm on the phone with him so often crying for help. He has blessed me with this site and all of my brothers. I thank him often for creating men and women who unselfishly spent their time and money to run this site and offer this free service to all these quitters.
Title: Re: A Higher Power
Post by: Turkey on May 08, 2008, 09:45:00 AM
Quote from: free-at-last!
Quote from: John3:16
Quote from: Turkey
Quote from: John3:16
My only true quits (yea, more than 1) were when I broke down and asked God to help me...

My quits ended when I stopped asking God for help...

I'm on a quit now...and I won't make that mistake again...

God does not want men hooked on drugs, alcohol, or tabacco...

Call on your quit brothers and call on your Higher Power - he's there, just waiting for your call...

And for anyone who is curious about our lord Jesus Christ and how he can make your life better - feel free to PM me...
I called....No answer....I'll try again later. Wait! God can't make me quit, God didn't make me start....I just realized, this whole time I've had the power within myself to quit....I'll give that a try......I'll keep the number handy just in case
Well,

No - God did not make you start...but he certainly approves of your quit and can be a source of strength just like this site and your quit brothers...

Yep - keep his number handy...he waits for your call
I agree with you 100%, John. I'm on the phone with him so often crying for help. He has blessed me with this site and all of my brothers. I thank him often for creating men and women who unselfishly spent their time and money to run this site and offer this free service to all these quitters.
Don't get me wrong, I support and respect your beliefs and thoughts. I would expect the same from you also. I am just saying that when it comes down to it, you need to find the strength and courage with-in yourself. Whatever you believe or value or find true, is a path. On that path are many side roads, some bad, some acceptible. It is up to you, yourself, to remain on that path and follow the direction you have laid out before yourself. Sure God (insert your meaning of God here) can show us the way but ultimately it is yourself that chooses to follow that route. I chose to quit Nicotine, the path was laid out before me, I chose to follow that path, it is up to me and only me to stay on that path. If I need help to stay on the straight and narrow, I will reach deep inside (where my higher power resides) and find the courage and strength to push on. I believe we all posses the powers to accomplish anything we want. The trick is knowing how to use them.
Title: Re: A Higher Power
Post by: John3:16 on May 08, 2008, 11:18:00 AM
Turkey,

God surely helps those who help themselves...

Yep - you decided to quit...and yep it's a personal journey...

But many times what you mistake for inner strength/fortitude is a conviction and a toughness that God puts on your heart knowing it's what you need...

We are all here because we were convicted...some because we were afraid we'd cheat our families out of a father, some because we realized how stupid our habit was, and some because we just knew we had a disgusting secret that we were ashamed of...

Call it what you want - but the conviction comes from something the lord put in you many years ago...by asking God for strength to beat this, God makes that conviction strong enough that it will overcome any cravings you have...it's a God thing and you don't have to know God to have it - he'll bless you simply because he knows you want to quit...
Title: Re: A Higher Power
Post by: Turkey on May 08, 2008, 12:43:00 PM
Quote from: John3:16
Turkey,

God surely helps those who help themselves...

Yep - you decided to quit...and yep it's a personal journey...

But many times what you mistake for inner strength/fortitude is a conviction and a toughness that God puts on your heart knowing it's what you need...

We are all here because we were convicted...some because we were afraid we'd cheat our families out of a father, some because we realized how stupid our habit was, and some because we just knew we had a disgusting secret that we were ashamed of...

Call it what you want - but the conviction comes from something the lord put in you many years ago...by asking God for strength to beat this, God makes that conviction strong enough that it will overcome any cravings you have...it's a God thing and you don't have to know God to have it - he'll bless you simply because he knows you want to quit...
It is pointless to go back and forth on the subject of God. I have my beliefs and you have yours. You will not agree with me, and I will not agree with you. It amazes me by the fact that millions of human beings that God created have died or killed over his name. I guess that is the will he put into them.
Title: Re: A Higher Power
Post by: John3:16 on May 08, 2008, 01:40:00 PM
Quote from: Turkey
Quote from: John3:16
Turkey,

God surely helps those who help themselves...

Yep - you decided to quit...and yep it's a personal journey...

But many times what you mistake for inner strength/fortitude is a conviction and a toughness that God puts on your heart knowing it's what you need...

We are all here because we were convicted...some because we were afraid we'd cheat our families out of a father, some because we realized how stupid our habit was, and some because we just knew we had a disgusting secret that we were ashamed of...

Call it what you want - but the conviction comes from something the lord put in you many years ago...by asking God for strength to beat this, God makes that conviction strong enough that it will overcome any cravings you have...it's a God thing and you don't have to know God to have it - he'll bless you simply because he knows you want to quit...
It is pointless to go back and forth on the subject of God. I have my beliefs and you have yours. You will not agree with me, and I will not agree with you. It amazes me by the fact that millions of human beings that God created have died or killed over his name. I guess that is the will he put into them.
I did not realize we were debating whether or not God exists...or that you did or did not believe in God...

The question that I thought you posed was "is it not possible for a person to quit independent of God and to simply do it by him/her self"?

And all I was saying is that whether or not you do or do not believe in God - to quit, you must have conviction...which in turn drives us to withstand any craving, etc. to walk away from this...

Where we disagree is: Where does that conviction come from?

As for those dying in his name, and the will - you/I/they have free will...
it's not God's will...it's man's will - ever since Adam broke God's commandment...this is not what God intended for us, it's what man has created by being disobedient...

And this conversation is no more pointless than alot of conversations I see in this place - but, hey all that matters is that you stay nic-free...
Title: Re: A Higher Power
Post by: mns36 on May 08, 2008, 05:02:00 PM
Quote from: John3:16
Quote from: Turkey
Quote from: John3:16
Turkey,

God surely helps those who help themselves...

Yep - you decided to quit...and yep it's a personal journey...

But many times what you mistake for inner strength/fortitude is a conviction and a toughness that God puts on your heart knowing it's what you need...

We are all here because we were convicted...some because we were afraid we'd cheat our families out of a father, some because we realized how stupid our habit was, and some because we just knew we had a disgusting secret that we were ashamed of...

Call it what you want - but the conviction comes from something the lord put in you many years ago...by asking God for strength to beat this, God makes that conviction strong enough that it will overcome any cravings you have...it's a God thing and you don't have to know God to have it - he'll bless you simply because he knows you want to quit...
It is pointless to go back and forth on the subject of God. I have my beliefs and you have yours. You will not agree with me, and I will not agree with you. It amazes me by the fact that millions of human beings that God created have died or killed over his name. I guess that is the will he put into them.
I did not realize we were debating whether or not God exists...or that you did or did not believe in God...

The question that I thought you posed was "is it not possible for a person to quit independent of God and to simply do it by him/her self"?

And all I was saying is that whether or not you do or do not believe in God - to quit, you must have conviction...which in turn drives us to withstand any craving, etc. to walk away from this...

Where we disagree is: Where does that conviction come from?

As for those dying in his name, and the will - you/I/they have free will...
it's not God's will...it's man's will - ever since Adam broke God's commandment...this is not what God intended for us, it's what man has created by being disobedient...

And this conversation is no more pointless than alot of conversations I see in this place - but, hey all that matters is that you stay nic-free...
This discussion belongs in the religion section. Not everyone believes the same things. Religion discussions always turn into pissing matches about who is right and who is wrong. I am atheist. I respect peoples beliefs and expect the same in return. I will not debate the subject. This discussion does not belong in the introduction section.
Title: Re: A Higher Power
Post by: John3:16 on May 08, 2008, 09:06:00 PM
mns36:

This forum is for "Introductions" - nobody said who would had be introduced...

My intention was that any quit brother who either believed and/or called on a higher power OR wanted to talk about it - would come here...

The introduction is not for me...it's for a "Higher Power" that people can call on to help them quit...

If you don't believe in a "Higher Power" or that there is any Higher Power of any kind - Christian, etc. - then just don't visit here...

Not trying to be disrespectul - I just never understood people who complained about something they were not forced to endure...
Title: Re: A Higher Power
Post by: chiefman31 on May 08, 2008, 11:37:00 PM
Quote from: John3:16
mns36:

This forum is for "Introductions" - nobody said who would had be introduced...

My intention was that any quit brother who either believed and/or called on a higher power OR wanted to talk about it - would come here...

The introduction is not for me...it's for a "Higher Power" that people can call on to help them quit...

If you don't believe in a "Higher Power"  or that there is any Higher Power of any kind - Christian, etc. - then just don't visit here...

Not trying to be disrespectul - I just never understood people who complained about something they were not forced to endure...
Hey,

Make a Circle jerk thread......... Call it, "Religion needs Religion" in order to survive........ :angry:

Do you really want to create a thread that removes a certain "class" of people from attending? Just curious........
Title: Re: A Higher Power
Post by: mns36 on May 09, 2008, 05:20:00 AM
Quote from: chiefman31
Quote from: John3:16
mns36:

This forum is for "Introductions" - nobody said who would had be introduced...

My intention was that any quit brother who either believed and/or called on a higher power OR wanted to talk about it - would come here...

The introduction is not for me...it's for a "Higher Power" that people can call on to help them quit...

If you don't believe in a "Higher Power"  or that there is any Higher Power of any kind - Christian, etc. - then just don't visit here...

Not trying to be disrespectul - I just never understood people who complained about something they were not forced to endure...
Hey,

Make a Circle jerk thread......... Call it, "Religion needs Religion" in order to survive........ :angry:

Do you really want to create a thread that removes a certain "class" of people from attending? Just curious........
John3:16

First of all, I am not complaining. There is a a place in the Wildcard section of this site to discuss the "higher power". So according to you I am not supposed to visit the introduction section where people "INTRODUCE" themselves? I respect your intentions but this is not the place. Sorry if you feel that I am wrong. I do find your comment saying that if I dont believe in a higher power, dont visit here rather disrespectful. I am a good person, probably a better person than alot of Christians. That is all I will say.
Title: Re: A Higher Power
Post by: John3:16 on May 09, 2008, 06:15:00 AM
Quote from: mns36
Quote from: chiefman31
Quote from: John3:16
mns36:

This forum is for "Introductions" - nobody said who would had be introduced...

My intention was that any quit brother who either believed and/or called on a higher power OR wanted to talk about it - would come here...

The introduction is not for me...it's for a "Higher Power" that people can call on to help them quit...

If you don't believe in a "Higher Power"  or that there is any Higher Power of any kind - Christian, etc. - then just don't visit here...

Not trying to be disrespectul - I just never understood people who complained about something they were not forced to endure...
Hey,

Make a Circle jerk thread......... Call it, "Religion needs Religion" in order to survive........ :angry:

Do you really want to create a thread that removes a certain "class" of people from attending? Just curious........
John3:16

First of all, I am not complaining. There is a a place in the Wildcard section of this site to discuss the "higher power". So according to you I am not supposed to visit the introduction section where people "INTRODUCE" themselves? I respect your intentions but this is not the place. Sorry if you feel that I am wrong. I do find your comment saying that if I dont believe in a higher power, dont visit here rather disrespectful. I am a good person, probably a better person than alot of Christians. That is all I will say.
Hey,


I didn't mean don't visit the entire introductions site...there are hundreds of entries here...this is just one of many...

Some of the introductions are from people that have not even quit yet...just passing through...

They focus on a wide variety of topics and subjects...

I'm not trying to "exclude" anyone...

There are certain things I see on this site I don't approve of the content, tone, etc...but I don't say anything - I just choose not to either read it or go into those quit groups, etc...

Anyone is welcome here, and for those who don't care to discuss or read this concept - they can just bypass it...
Title: Re: A Higher Power
Post by: loot on May 09, 2008, 07:49:00 AM
Quote from: chiefman31
Make a Circle jerk thread......... Call it, "Religion needs Religion" in order to survive........ :angry:

Do you really want to create a thread that removes a certain "class" of people from attending? Just curious........
this would count as one of your posts chief....quit being a dick and shut the fuck up already

don't come in here stirring shit just cause you see something related to religion

be glad there are lotsa miles seperating us...loot ran out of meds and is not sure a simple asskicking would be enough for his thirst for blood

and comon guys...the "JC/curveball" was classic....funny shit from loot
Title: Re: A Higher Power
Post by: loot on May 09, 2008, 07:53:00 AM
This is John3:16's thread in introduction...he cantalk about whatever the fuck he wants to...it's up to you dumbasses to keep yer fucking mouths shut if you take issue with it...really...keep yer fucking fingers off you keyboards.

maybe J316 stays out of the Wildcard section...and thats not such a bad idea.

J316...if you'd like to answer...LOOt has some legitimate questions based on the verse you've chosen.
Title: Re: A Higher Power
Post by: mns36 on May 09, 2008, 10:58:00 AM
Quote from: John3:16
Quote from: mns36
Quote from: chiefman31
Quote from: John3:16
mns36:

This forum is for "Introductions" - nobody said who would had be introduced...

My intention was that any quit brother who either believed and/or called on a higher power OR wanted to talk about it - would come here...

The introduction is not for me...it's for a "Higher Power" that people can call on to help them quit...

If you don't believe in a "Higher Power"  or that there is any Higher Power of any kind - Christian, etc. - then just don't visit here...

Not trying to be disrespectul - I just never understood people who complained about something they were not forced to endure...
Hey,

Make a Circle jerk thread......... Call it, "Religion needs Religion" in order to survive........ :angry:

Do you really want to create a thread that removes a certain "class" of people from attending? Just curious........
John3:16

First of all, I am not complaining. There is a a place in the Wildcard section of this site to discuss the "higher power". So according to you I am not supposed to visit the introduction section where people "INTRODUCE" themselves? I respect your intentions but this is not the place. Sorry if you feel that I am wrong. I do find your comment saying that if I dont believe in a higher power, dont visit here rather disrespectful. I am a good person, probably a better person than alot of Christians. That is all I will say.
Hey,


I didn't mean don't visit the entire introductions site...there are hundreds of entries here...this is just one of many...

Some of the introductions are from people that have not even quit yet...just passing through...

They focus on a wide variety of topics and subjects...

I'm not trying to "exclude" anyone...

There are certain things I see on this site I don't approve of the content, tone, etc...but I don't say anything - I just choose not to either read it or go into those quit groups, etc...

Anyone is welcome here, and for those who don't care to discuss or read this concept - they can just bypass it...
I see your point. Just a misunderstanding that is all. No worries.
Title: Re: A Higher Power
Post by: John3:16 on May 09, 2008, 12:27:00 PM
Quote from: loot
This is John3:16's thread in introduction...he cantalk about whatever the fuck he wants to...it's up to you dumbasses to keep yer fucking mouths shut if you take issue with it...really...keep yer fucking fingers off you keyboards.

maybe J316 stays out of the Wildcard section...and thats not such a bad idea.

J316...if you'd like to answer...LOOt has some legitimate questions based on the verse you've chosen.
Go ahead loot...ask away...

Now, just to be fair and up front - my QS1 name was ForMyKids or FMK...

I went HOF with the units...about day 200+ I threw it all away...for no good reason on a fishing trip...thought I could have 1...I was buying a sleeve every week...

From that time I had a few false starts...

It's all because I thought I did not need this place...and I did not need a Higher Power to quit...I was wrong on both counts...

But I'm here to stay...and I've made God a promise (just for the record, God does not cut deals with people - there's only 1 deal on the table now) that if he'd help me get back to HOF I'd stay involved here and I'd offer up my testimony to help others...

Now - ask away...
Title: Re: A Higher Power
Post by: loot on May 09, 2008, 01:03:00 PM
Quote from: John3:16
Quote from: loot
This is John3:16's thread in introduction...he cantalk about whatever the fuck he wants to...it's up to you dumbasses to keep yer fucking mouths shut if you take issue with it...really...keep yer fucking fingers off you keyboards.

maybe J316 stays out of the Wildcard section...and thats not such a bad idea.

J316...if you'd like to answer...LOOt has some legitimate questions based on the verse you've chosen.
Go ahead loot...ask away...

Now, just to be fair and up front - my QS1 name was ForMyKids or FMK...

I went HOF with the units...about day 200+ I threw it all away...for no good reason on a fishing trip...thought I could have 1...I was buying a sleeve every week...

From that time I had a few false starts...

It's all because I thought I did not need this place...and I did not need a Higher Power to quit...I was wrong on both counts...

But I'm here to stay...and I've made God a promise (just for the record, God does not cut deals with people - there's only 1 deal on the table now) that if he'd help me get back to HOF I'd stay involved here and I'd offer up my testimony to help others...

Now - ask away...
Then we know each other...you were an Icehole no?

And I'll start simply...do you believe people burn in hell for eternity?
Title: Re: A Higher Power
Post by: John3:16 on May 09, 2008, 01:54:00 PM
Quote from: loot
Quote from: John3:16
Quote from: loot
This is John3:16's thread in introduction...he cantalk about whatever the fuck he wants to...it's up to you dumbasses to keep yer fucking mouths shut if you take issue with it...really...keep yer fucking fingers off you keyboards.

maybe J316 stays out of the Wildcard section...and thats not such a bad idea.

J316...if you'd like to answer...LOOt has some legitimate questions based on the verse you've chosen.
Go ahead loot...ask away...

Now, just to be fair and up front - my QS1 name was ForMyKids or FMK...

I went HOF with the units...about day 200+ I threw it all away...for no good reason on a fishing trip...thought I could have 1...I was buying a sleeve every week...

From that time I had a few false starts...

It's all because I thought I did not need this place...and I did not need a Higher Power to quit...I was wrong on both counts...

But I'm here to stay...and I've made God a promise (just for the record, God does not cut deals with people - there's only 1 deal on the table now) that if he'd help me get back to HOF I'd stay involved here and I'd offer up my testimony to help others...

Now - ask away...
Then we know each other...you were an Icehole no?

And I'll start simply...do you believe people burn in hell for eternity?
Icehole? Not sure what you mean there...but I remember you from QS1...

As for the question you ask...

"do people burn in hell for eternity"

Well, we all have free will...and everyone has the choice to worship or serve whatever God/etc. they want. Man was born destined for hell, as we are just not good enough to be in the presence of God...Adam changed our relationship with God.

In the early days, God demanded offerings to atone for sins and our imperfections. God is holy and righteous, atonement is mandatory - even God himself cannot excuse this. God's final plan was that a price would be paid for all past and present sin in 1 final act - of course that was when Christ took our place on the cross.

So - the question is whether you accept this gift or you reject it. If you reject it, then your sins have not been atoned and therefore judgment will land you separated from God...separation from God is hell...whether or not you burn there, that's it - you go there and it's for eternity...

See, this life we have and UST, and Cope, and all of this - it's just a job interview...a short warmup for the real deal. Earth is a mix of heaven and earth...it's what you decide now that will dictate which way you go...

I don't make the rules...they are God's rules...and he does not bend them for anyone...
Title: Re: A Higher Power
Post by: sigma1570 on May 10, 2008, 01:20:00 PM
This has to be the lamest introduction thread ever and it belongs in a totally different part of the forums. John welcome back, whether its you quitting with or without your gods help you are still quitting, congratulations. Make it stick this time eh?
Title: Re: A Higher Power
Post by: Seanfhear on May 10, 2008, 02:10:00 PM
Quote from: John3:16
Quote from: loot
Quote from: John3:16
Quote from: loot
This is John3:16's thread in introduction...he cantalk about whatever the fuck he wants to...it's up to you dumbasses to keep yer fucking mouths shut if you take issue with it...really...keep yer fucking fingers off you keyboards.

maybe J316 stays out of the Wildcard section...and thats not such a bad idea.

J316...if you'd like to answer...LOOt has some legitimate questions based on the verse you've chosen.
Go ahead loot...ask away...

Now, just to be fair and up front - my QS1 name was ForMyKids or FMK...

I went HOF with the units...about day 200+ I threw it all away...for no good reason on a fishing trip...thought I could have 1...I was buying a sleeve every week...

From that time I had a few false starts...

It's all because I thought I did not need this place...and I did not need a Higher Power to quit...I was wrong on both counts...

But I'm here to stay...and I've made God a promise (just for the record, God does not cut deals with people - there's only 1 deal on the table now) that if he'd help me get back to HOF I'd stay involved here and I'd offer up my testimony to help others...

Now - ask away...
Then we know each other...you were an Icehole no?

And I'll start simply...do you believe people burn in hell for eternity?
Icehole? Not sure what you mean there...but I remember you from QS1...

As for the question you ask...

"do people burn in hell for eternity"

Well, we all have free will...and everyone has the choice to worship or serve whatever God/etc. they want. Man was born destined for hell, as we are just not good enough to be in the presence of God...Adam changed our relationship with God.

In the early days, God demanded offerings to atone for sins and our imperfections. God is holy and righteous, atonement is mandatory - even God himself cannot excuse this. God's final plan was that a price would be paid for all past and present sin in 1 final act - of course that was when Christ took our place on the cross.

So - the question is whether you accept this gift or you reject it. If you reject it, then your sins have not been atoned and therefore judgment will land you separated from God...separation from God is hell...whether or not you burn there, that's it - you go there and it's for eternity...

See, this life we have and UST, and Cope, and all of this - it's just a job interview...a short warmup for the real deal. Earth is a mix of heaven and earth...it's what you decide now that will dictate which way you go...

I don't make the rules...they are God's rules...and he does not bend them for anyone...
Since this is an introductory thread, I won't comment here, but please, please, please, bring this augustian original sin crap to the religion thread!
Title: Re: A Higher Power
Post by: loot on May 10, 2008, 08:16:00 PM
buncha JC hatas

J316....simple answer

burn in hell forever or not.

January 2006 Icesholes...with Ken and Rayne and Gum?
Title: Re: A Higher Power
Post by: Aquaman43 on May 10, 2008, 09:56:00 PM
Quote from: loot
Quote from: chiefman31
Make a Circle jerk thread......... Call it, "Religion needs Religion" in order to survive........ :angry:

Do you really want to create a thread that removes a certain "class" of people from attending?  Just curious........
this would count as one of your posts chief....quit being a dick and shut the fuck up already

don't come in here stirring shit just cause you see something related to religion

be glad there are lotsa miles seperating us...loot ran out of meds and is not sure a simple asskicking would be enough for his thirst for blood

and comon guys...the "JC/curveball" was classic....funny shit from loot
Werd! and I'm not sure I'm taking a strong enough dose to keep me from using my frequent flyer miles and rental car points to make a surprise visit. I grow tired of the lack of blood. :ph43r:
Title: Re: A Higher Power
Post by: Remshot on May 10, 2008, 11:59:00 PM
Quote from: loot
buncha JC hatas

J316....simple answer

burn in hell forever or not.

January 2006 Icesholes...with Ken and Rayne and Gum?
looT - J316 was part of chewie's goup - Oct. 2006..Just like he wrote..Not an icehole...no gum, no rayne (you wish)...
Title: Re: A Higher Power
Post by: John3:16 on May 11, 2008, 03:12:00 PM
Quote from: loot
buncha JC hatas

J316....simple answer

burn in hell forever or not.

January 2006 Icesholes...with Ken and Rayne and Gum?
Loot,

Was on a mother's day camping trip - lot's of good dipping places being in the woods of course...

But - no dip...

Ok, answer is if you reject the gift of salvation will you are on this earth (i.e., belief and acceptance of Jesus Christ) then I'm sorry to say you will spend eternity in hell and yes, the bible makes mention that it constantly burns with fire.

For those who do not believe in God, if I'm right and you are wrong - you have made the mistake of your eternal soul...
Title: Re: A Higher Power
Post by: John3:16 on May 11, 2008, 03:14:00 PM
Quote from: sigma1570
This has to be the lamest introduction thread ever and it belongs in a totally different part of the forums. John welcome back, whether its you quitting with or without your gods help you are still quitting, congratulations. Make it stick this time eh?
Thanks,

Yes - I'll make it stick...

I'm done with dipping and I'm gonna stick close to my quit group to keep me accountable...
Title: Re: A Higher Power
Post by: loot on May 11, 2008, 07:19:00 PM
Quote from: John3:16
Quote from: loot
buncha JC hatas

J316....simple answer

burn in hell forever or not.

January 2006 Icesholes...with Ken and Rayne and Gum?
Loot,

Was on a mother's day camping trip - lot's of good dipping places being in the woods of course...

But - no dip...

Ok, answer is if you reject the gift of salvation will you are on this earth (i.e., belief and acceptance of Jesus Christ) then I'm sorry to say you will spend eternity in hell and yes, the bible makes mention that it constantly burns with fire.

For those who do not believe in God, if I'm right and you are wrong - you have made the mistake of your eternal soul...
then why in John3:16 is the word "perish" used. Look it up. An if LOOT aint mistaken Revelations says you will be eventually be cast into the lake of fire and you will be no more.

contradictions....the bible is full of them
Title: Re: A Higher Power
Post by: John3:16 on May 11, 2008, 07:54:00 PM
Quote from: loot
Quote from: John3:16
Quote from: loot
buncha JC hatas

J316....simple answer

burn in hell forever or not.

January 2006 Icesholes...with Ken and Rayne and Gum?
Loot,

Was on a mother's day camping trip - lot's of good dipping places being in the woods of course...

But - no dip...

Ok, answer is if you reject the gift of salvation will you are on this earth (i.e., belief and acceptance of Jesus Christ) then I'm sorry to say you will spend eternity in hell and yes, the bible makes mention that it constantly burns with fire.

For those who do not believe in God, if I'm right and you are wrong - you have made the mistake of your eternal soul...
then why in John3:16 is the word "perish" used. Look it up. An if LOOT aint mistaken Revelations says you will be eventually be cast into the lake of fire and you will be no more.

contradictions....the bible is full of them
Loot (it's ok if I put a capital on the L?)...

I'll be the first to admit that some things in the bible are open for interpretation...

However, this is not one of them...

JC makes it clear - and john3:16 is pretty much the final word...Paul
makes many references as well (Romans) as to what you have to do
to be right with God.

In the New Test death and perish, etc. is used many times...it does
mean death in a sense that we understand, it's not that your heart
stopped...that's physical death...this is far worse...

It means spiritual death - that's a final death...it's a death you can't
come back from and a death you live through but wish you were dead...

As for perish and the lake of fire, well Satan goes into the lake of fire
at the very end...and of course, he joined by all those that rejected
God - meaning his offer in the form of his son Jesus...

Bottom line is there is the book of life...your name is there or it is not...
the path is well traveled for those whose name is not there...

Believe me, I grieve because many of my friends and family are not right
with God...and Until I was 41...my name was surely not there...
Title: Re: A Higher Power
Post by: CCM on May 11, 2008, 09:59:00 PM
Not gonna take a side here on the discussion. Just want y'all to think if this is the kind of discussion you would like to provide in the introduction section.

I know when I came to the site, I looked at this section first. I wanted (and did) see discussion on quitting, new quitters, advice on quitting, etc...

I understand John's intention. The replies have not met that intention. They are starting to look like the discussions in the religion section.

Just my opinion.

I'm gonna delete this post in a day or two.
Title: Re: A Higher Power
Post by: elguapo15 on May 12, 2008, 01:48:00 PM
Quote from: CCM
Not gonna take a side here on the discussion. Just want y'all to think if this is the kind of discussion you would like to provide in the introduction section.

I know when I came to the site, I looked at this section first. I wanted (and did) see discussion on quitting, new quitters, advice on quitting, etc...

I understand John's intention. The replies have not met that intention. They are starting to look like the discussions in the religion section.

Just my opinion.

I'm gonna delete this post in a day or two.
For what it's worth I'm with CCM. I would have had second thoughts jumping in here for my quit if I ran into this thread while I was surfing. Good intention / wrong place.
Title: Re: A Higher Power
Post by: loot on May 12, 2008, 02:52:00 PM
well...we'll just amend the rules to accomodate you two assholes then

and if this single discussion, among the wealth of information presented on this site, made you decide not to quit....you ain't got the stones for it anyway

just sayin
Title: Re: A Higher Power
Post by: elguapo15 on May 12, 2008, 04:28:00 PM
Quote from: loot
well...we'll just amend the rules to accomodate you two assholes then

and if this single discussion, among the wealth of information presented on this site, made you decide not to quit....you ain't got the stones for it anyway

just sayin
Yeah. I'm just a big pussy loot.

Just sayin that if this Christian thread was the first thing I saw when I first checked the site I'd just keep going and find another one. And that would have been unfortunate. As simple as that. If you feel that strongly then don't change it - can't see that it makes a huge difference one way or the other.

But I'm quitting - not looking for god. Might be a couple others out there like me.
Title: Re: A Higher Power
Post by: loot on May 12, 2008, 04:31:00 PM
Quote from: elguapo15
Quote from: loot
well...we'll just amend the rules to accomodate you two assholes then

and if this single discussion, among the wealth of information presented on this site, made you decide not to quit....you ain't got the stones for it anyway

just sayin
Yeah. I'm just a big pussy loot.

Just sayin that if this Christian thread was the first thing I saw when I first checked the site I'd just keep going and find another one. And that would have been unfortunate. As simple as that. If you feel that strongly then don't change it - can't see that it makes a huge difference one way or the other.

But I'm quitting - not looking for god. Might be a couple others out there like me.
yeah....no place for God in America is there

buncha fuckin libs
Title: Re: A Higher Power
Post by: elguapo15 on May 12, 2008, 04:49:00 PM
Quote from: loot
Quote from: elguapo15
Quote from: loot
well...we'll just amend the rules to accomodate you two assholes then

and if this single discussion, among the wealth of information presented on this site, made you decide not to quit....you ain't got the stones for it anyway

just sayin
Yeah. I'm just a big pussy loot.

Just sayin that if this Christian thread was the first thing I saw when I first checked the site I'd just keep going and find another one. And that would have been unfortunate. As simple as that. If you feel that strongly then don't change it - can't see that it makes a huge difference one way or the other.

But I'm quitting - not looking for god. Might be a couple others out there like me.
yeah....no place for God in America is there

buncha fuckin libs
nice catchall. nonsensical but handy.

c'mon loot - you're a hell of guy on this site. why so pissy on this issue? this isn't a lib issue (whatever the fuck that is) - I just don't want to see god everywhere I go. does it fundamentally matter in here whether I'm a god-fearing christian or not?

so of course now I got myself involved here. like I said - keep the thread. just stating my opinion.

annoying how the rain comes down when someone on here isn't just preaching to the choir.
Title: Re: A Higher Power
Post by: loot on May 12, 2008, 04:59:00 PM
Quote from: elguapo15
Quote from: loot
Quote from: elguapo15
Quote from: loot
well...we'll just amend the rules to accomodate you two assholes then

and if this single discussion, among the wealth of information presented on this site, made you decide not to quit....you ain't got the stones for it anyway

just sayin
Yeah. I'm just a big pussy loot.

Just sayin that if this Christian thread was the first thing I saw when I first checked the site I'd just keep going and find another one. And that would have been unfortunate. As simple as that. If you feel that strongly then don't change it - can't see that it makes a huge difference one way or the other.

But I'm quitting - not looking for god. Might be a couple others out there like me.
yeah....no place for God in America is there

buncha fuckin libs
nice catchall. nonsensical but handy.

c'mon loot - you're a hell of guy on this site. why so pissy on this issue? this isn't a lib issue (whatever the fuck that is) - I just don't want to see god everywhere I go. does it fundamentally matter in here whether I'm a god-fearing christian or not?

so of course now I got myself involved here. like I said - keep the thread. just stating my opinion.

annoying how the rain comes down when someone on here isn't just preaching to the choir.
you lost all the smartassed ness in LOOT's posts...LOOT aint pissy...you jusr haven't been around in a while for LOOT to take a swipe at...thats all

LOOT can see both sides of it

but again...if one posts/thread keeps someone way, they are simply looking for excuses NOT to quit
Title: Re: A Higher Power
Post by: elguapo15 on May 12, 2008, 06:37:00 PM
Quote from: loot
Quote from: elguapo15
Quote from: loot
Quote from: elguapo15
Quote from: loot
well...we'll just amend the rules to accomodate you two assholes then

and if this single discussion, among the wealth of information presented on this site, made you decide not to quit....you ain't got the stones for it anyway

just sayin
Yeah. I'm just a big pussy loot.

Just sayin that if this Christian thread was the first thing I saw when I first checked the site I'd just keep going and find another one. And that would have been unfortunate. As simple as that. If you feel that strongly then don't change it - can't see that it makes a huge difference one way or the other.

But I'm quitting - not looking for god. Might be a couple others out there like me.
yeah....no place for God in America is there

buncha fuckin libs
nice catchall. nonsensical but handy.

c'mon loot - you're a hell of guy on this site. why so pissy on this issue? this isn't a lib issue (whatever the fuck that is) - I just don't want to see god everywhere I go. does it fundamentally matter in here whether I'm a god-fearing christian or not?

so of course now I got myself involved here. like I said - keep the thread. just stating my opinion.

annoying how the rain comes down when someone on here isn't just preaching to the choir.
you lost all the smartassed ness in LOOT's posts...LOOT aint pissy...you jusr haven't been around in a while for LOOT to take a swipe at...thats all

LOOT can see both sides of it

but again...if one posts/thread keeps someone way, they are simply looking for excuses NOT to quit
Mebbe. I'll give you that one.

Damn, I am a little rusty with the sarcasm. Also had to get up at 3:00 am today to send my 13 year-old to China for two weeks. I'm wiped.
Title: Re: A Higher Power
Post by: loot on May 12, 2008, 07:26:00 PM
and the really funny part is the introduction you fucks like to rail against stays at the top...and has more replies than any other

its all in how you play the game dooshbags
Title: Re: A Higher Power
Post by: loot on May 12, 2008, 07:31:00 PM
J316:

let loot make sure he understands your stance.

there is this magical book of life JC write names in...kinda like stellar Santa Clause...only instead of coal...you get your nads lit on fire for a while. Then...at end times...when Satan is finally overthrown....he and his minion (folks who didn't make the candy cane list) are cast into a lake of fire and die a spiritual death?

that about it?
Title: Re: A Higher Power
Post by: elguapo15 on May 12, 2008, 08:09:00 PM
Quote from: loot
and the really funny part is the introduction you fucks like to rail against stays at the top...and has more replies than any other

its all in how you play the game dooshbags
Christ loot, everyone knows the primary demographic for (ex)chewers are redneck, huntin' and fishin', drinkin', fightin' and fuckin' bible-thumpers. I've got a bunch of good friends who fit right in with you hayseed inbreeds. Not that all ya'll ain't book-smart.

No shock the intro gets a lot of play.

Just trying to keep the playing field even for us heretics. (This is really starting to remind me of lite.)
Title: Re: A Higher Power
Post by: loot on May 12, 2008, 08:26:00 PM
Quote from: elguapo15
Quote from: loot
and the really funny part is the introduction you fucks like to rail against stays at the top...and has more replies than any other

its all in how you play the game dooshbags
Christ loot, everyone knows the primary demographic for (ex)chewers are redneck, huntin' and fishin', drinkin', fightin' and fuckin' bible-thumpers. I've got a bunch of good friends who fit right in with you hayseed inbreeds. Not that all ya'll ain't book-smart.

No shock the intro gets a lot of play.

Just trying to keep the playing field even for us heretics. (This is really starting to remind me of lite.)
reminds you of lite eh? how'sabout loot calls you a cocksucker and threatens to jizz on you soon...real soon? Can you get away with that at lite?

And seriously dude...LOOT don't religion ('cept the COL) very seriously.

J316 just wears his religion on his sleeve. Loot has serious issues with that verse. Loot is trying to get his opinion on it before LOOt destroys him with it.

just a little fun effe...you prick

cant do that on lite either...lest you wake up and the guys with power have changed you password and e-mail address

tell Flav LOOt said FU...he'll know what you mean.
Title: Re: A Higher Power
Post by: loot on May 12, 2008, 08:27:00 PM
and you took the lords name in vain effe...serious hell time
Title: Re: A Higher Power
Post by: elguapo15 on May 12, 2008, 08:32:00 PM
Quote from: loot
and you took the lords name in vain effe...serious hell time
Yup - the jig is up for me. My hair just erupted in flames.
Title: Re: A Higher Power
Post by: loot on May 12, 2008, 08:34:00 PM
that why you puttin it out with pussy...pussy?
Title: Re: A Higher Power
Post by: elguapo15 on May 12, 2008, 08:40:00 PM
Quote from: loot
that why you puttin it out with pussy...pussy?
lootie - I'm howling here. Who suffered your wrath yesterday. 'tease'
Title: Re: A Higher Power
Post by: elguapo15 on May 12, 2008, 08:43:00 PM
Quote from: loot

cant do that on lite either...lest you wake up and the guys with power have changed you password and e-mail address

tell Flav LOOt said FU...he'll know what you mean.
Haven't been there for a long time. I'll pass.
Title: Re: A Higher Power
Post by: John3:16 on May 12, 2008, 11:43:00 PM
Quote from: loot
J316:

let loot make sure he understands your stance.

there is this magical book of life JC write names in...kinda like stellar Santa Clause...only instead of coal...you get your nads lit on fire for a while. Then...at end times...when Satan is finally overthrown....he and his minion (folks who didn't make the candy cane list) are cast into a lake of fire and die a spiritual death?

that about it?
Yes, the book of life...

Yes...that's right, if a person's name is not there...then they will join
those who have rejected God with Satan...
Title: Re: A Higher Power
Post by: John3:16 on May 12, 2008, 11:55:00 PM
Quote from: loot
Quote from: elguapo15
Quote from: loot
and the really funny part is the introduction you fucks like to rail against stays at the top...and has more replies than any other

its all in how you play the game dooshbags
Christ loot, everyone knows the primary demographic for (ex)chewers are redneck, huntin' and fishin', drinkin', fightin' and fuckin' bible-thumpers. I've got a bunch of good friends who fit right in with you hayseed inbreeds. Not that all ya'll ain't book-smart.

No shock the intro gets a lot of play.

Just trying to keep the playing field even for us heretics. (This is really starting to remind me of lite.)
reminds you of lite eh? how'sabout loot calls you a cocksucker and threatens to jizz on you soon...real soon? Can you get away with that at lite?

And seriously dude...LOOT don't religion ('cept the COL) very seriously.

J316 just wears his religion on his sleeve. Loot has serious issues with that verse. Loot is trying to get his opinion on it before LOOt destroys him with it.

just a little fun effe...you prick

cant do that on lite either...lest you wake up and the guys with power have changed you password and e-mail address

tell Flav LOOt said FU...he'll know what you mean.
Hey, I don't wear religion on my sleeve...

I am not a goody 2-shoes that believes I'm a saint...

I've done plenty I am not proud of, and I've sinned enough for
more than 1 person...and I suffer from the same temptations
that all men are...

However, I strongly believe I am forgiven simply because
I believe...

Now - not sure what your problem is with john3:16 the verse,
it's always been a favorite of mine...I choose it because I
wanted the verse seen here...and I needed to be accountable to
more than just a quit group...knowing that I could not let
"john3:16" cave...

Now, I see names here some of which are obscene, and I see language
here of which I can't understand the profanity...but not 1 time have I
complained...

This is a free country...and the site should be free, if I don't like someone's
introduction - then I won't go read it...if I don't like the profanity, then I'll
skip the thread...

Anyway that's my story...
Title: Re: A Higher Power
Post by: loot on May 13, 2008, 07:48:00 AM
Quote from: John3:16
Quote from: loot
J316:

let loot make sure he understands your stance.

there is this magical book of life JC write names in...kinda like stellar Santa Clause...only instead of coal...you get your nads lit on fire for a while.  Then...at end times...when Satan is finally overthrown....he and his minion (folks who didn't make the candy cane list) are cast into a lake of fire and die a spiritual death?

that about it?
Yes, the book of life...

Yes...that's right, if a person's name is not there...then they will join
those who have rejected God with Satan...
and spend eternity in hell?
Title: Re: A Higher Power
Post by: loot on May 13, 2008, 07:48:00 AM
Quote from: John3:16
Quote from: loot
Quote from: elguapo15
Quote from: loot
and the really funny part is the introduction you fucks like to rail against stays at the top...and has more replies than any other

its all in how you play the game dooshbags
Christ loot, everyone knows the primary demographic for (ex)chewers are redneck, huntin' and fishin', drinkin', fightin' and fuckin' bible-thumpers. I've got a bunch of good friends who fit right in with you hayseed inbreeds. Not that all ya'll ain't book-smart.

No shock the intro gets a lot of play.

Just trying to keep the playing field even for us heretics. (This is really starting to remind me of lite.)
reminds you of lite eh? how'sabout loot calls you a cocksucker and threatens to jizz on you soon...real soon? Can you get away with that at lite?

And seriously dude...LOOT don't religion ('cept the COL) very seriously.

J316 just wears his religion on his sleeve. Loot has serious issues with that verse. Loot is trying to get his opinion on it before LOOt destroys him with it.

just a little fun effe...you prick

cant do that on lite either...lest you wake up and the guys with power have changed you password and e-mail address

tell Flav LOOt said FU...he'll know what you mean.
Hey, I don't wear religion on my sleeve...

I am not a goody 2-shoes that believes I'm a saint...

I've done plenty I am not proud of, and I've sinned enough for
more than 1 person...and I suffer from the same temptations
that all men are...

However, I strongly believe I am forgiven simply because
I believe...

Now - not sure what your problem is with john3:16 the verse,
it's always been a favorite of mine...I choose it because I
wanted the verse seen here...and I needed to be accountable to
more than just a quit group...knowing that I could not let
"john3:16" cave...

Now, I see names here some of which are obscene, and I see language
here of which I can't understand the profanity...but not 1 time have I
complained...

This is a free country...and the site should be free, if I don't like someone's
introduction - then I won't go read it...if I don't like the profanity, then I'll
skip the thread...

Anyway that's my story...
bravo...well said
Title: Re: A Higher Power
Post by: free-at-last! on May 13, 2008, 09:00:00 AM
Quote from: loot
Quote from: John3:16
Quote from: loot
J316:

let loot make sure he understands your stance.

there is this magical book of life JC write names in...kinda like stellar Santa Clause...only instead of coal...you get your nads lit on fire for a while.  Then...at end times...when Satan is finally overthrown....he and his minion (folks who didn't make the candy cane list) are cast into a lake of fire and die a spiritual death?

that about it?
Yes, the book of life...

Yes...that's right, if a person's name is not there...then they will join
those who have rejected God with Satan...
and spend eternity in hell?
Yes.
Title: Re: A Higher Power
Post by: John3:16 on May 13, 2008, 10:06:00 AM
Quote from: free-at-last!
Quote from: loot
Quote from: John3:16
Quote from: loot
J316:

let loot make sure he understands your stance.

there is this magical book of life JC write names in...kinda like stellar Santa Clause...only instead of coal...you get your nads lit on fire for a while.  Then...at end times...when Satan is finally overthrown....he and his minion (folks who didn't make the candy cane list) are cast into a lake of fire and die a spiritual death?

that about it?
Yes, the book of life...

Yes...that's right, if a person's name is not there...then they will join
those who have rejected God with Satan...
and spend eternity in hell?
Yes.
It is as FAL says...

Just so you know - I know alot of good people who practice Christian values but have/will not accept God's salvation...

On the other hand, I know people (and I put myself in that category) who have
not practiced these values for most their lives...and honestly probably don't deserve God's grace...

But God makes a blanket deal to all...no 1 sin is any greater than another...and bottom line is no person is good enough or righteous enough no matter how they appear on the outside to make it heaven on their own...

So, only by John3:16 the verse is anyone able to get to heaven...

I don't make the rules, those rules will mean people I care about (family, etc.) will not be in heaven...but who am I to question God's judgement? Read the book of Job and God's response to Job when Job did...
Title: Re: A Higher Power
Post by: loot on May 13, 2008, 01:18:00 PM
Quote from: John3:16
Quote from: free-at-last!
Quote from: loot
Quote from: John3:16
Quote from: loot
J316:

let loot make sure he understands your stance.

there is this magical book of life JC write names in...kinda like stellar Santa Clause...only instead of coal...you get your nads lit on fire for a while.  Then...at end times...when Satan is finally overthrown....he and his minion (folks who didn't make the candy cane list) are cast into a lake of fire and die a spiritual death?

that about it?
Yes, the book of life...

Yes...that's right, if a person's name is not there...then they will join
those who have rejected God with Satan...
and spend eternity in hell?
Yes.
It is as FAL says...

Just so you know - I know alot of good people who practice Christian values but have/will not accept God's salvation...

On the other hand, I know people (and I put myself in that category) who have
not practiced these values for most their lives...and honestly probably don't deserve God's grace...

But God makes a blanket deal to all...no 1 sin is any greater than another...and bottom line is no person is good enough or righteous enough no matter how they appear on the outside to make it heaven on their own...

So, only by John3:16 the verse is anyone able to get to heaven...

I don't make the rules, those rules will mean people I care about (family, etc.) will not be in heaven...but who am I to question God's judgement? Read the book of Job and God's response to Job when Job did...
the please explain the "perish" portion of that verse again for us dense ones. Somewhere in Revelations it says that at the end of Satans time, all the people in hell will be cast into the lake of fire...this is the second death...death of the soul...you will be no more.

If J3:16 says perish, and Rev backs it up...you can't burn forever

LOOT is just rying to figure out how long his sentence is going to be.
Title: Re: A Higher Power
Post by: boomhauer on May 13, 2008, 01:35:00 PM
Quote from: loot
Quote from: John3:16
Quote from: free-at-last!
Quote from: loot
Quote from: John3:16
Quote from: loot
J316:

let loot make sure he understands your stance.

there is this magical book of life JC write names in...kinda like stellar Santa Clause...only instead of coal...you get your nads lit on fire for a while.  Then...at end times...when Satan is finally overthrown....he and his minion (folks who didn't make the candy cane list) are cast into a lake of fire and die a spiritual death?

that about it?
Yes, the book of life...

Yes...that's right, if a person's name is not there...then they will join
those who have rejected God with Satan...
and spend eternity in hell?
Yes.
It is as FAL says...

Just so you know - I know alot of good people who practice Christian values but have/will not accept God's salvation...

On the other hand, I know people (and I put myself in that category) who have
not practiced these values for most their lives...and honestly probably don't deserve God's grace...

But God makes a blanket deal to all...no 1 sin is any greater than another...and bottom line is no person is good enough or righteous enough no matter how they appear on the outside to make it heaven on their own...

So, only by John3:16 the verse is anyone able to get to heaven...

I don't make the rules, those rules will mean people I care about (family, etc.) will not be in heaven...but who am I to question God's judgement? Read the book of Job and God's response to Job when Job did...
the please explain the "perish" portion of that verse again for us dense ones. Somewhere in Revelations it says that at the end of Satans time, all the people in hell will be cast into the lake of fire...this is the second death...death of the soul...you will be no more.

If J3:16 says perish, and Rev backs it up...you can't burn forever

LOOT is just rying to figure out how long his sentence is going to be.
*Disclaimer* - I'm not a minister...nor am I trying to push my beliefs on anybody on this site. Anyone who doesn't want to discuss this topic, please ignore this post and go on about your business. Thanks

LOOT,

If I may comment....

The second death is spiritual death.....the first is the physical death. We all will experience the first. The second death is the one we have a choice whether we'll experience it or not. Jesus said that the only way to the Father is through Him(Jesus). So what that means is regardless of how many good deeds one does, or what they are, without Jesus, we can't get to the Father. Being denied this, is the second death....and it lasts forever.....and ever...and ever...and ever...times 50 trillion.....and so on.

John 3:16 says "....that so whoever believes in Him, should not perish, but have everlasting life"

That's saying that those who believe in Him, will not perish. But those who don't believe, WILL perish (again referring to second death)

We all deserve the second death, but Jesus took our place and died on the cross so we wouldn't have to experience this second death....but it doesn't mean that everybody gets a pass.....Jesus is the ONLY way to the Father.
Title: Re: A Higher Power
Post by: loot on May 13, 2008, 02:13:00 PM
Quote from: boomhauer
Quote from: loot
Quote from: John3:16
Quote from: free-at-last!
Quote from: loot
Quote from: John3:16
Quote from: loot
J316:

let loot make sure he understands your stance.

there is this magical book of life JC write names in...kinda like stellar Santa Clause...only instead of coal...you get your nads lit on fire for a while.  Then...at end times...when Satan is finally overthrown....he and his minion (folks who didn't make the candy cane list) are cast into a lake of fire and die a spiritual death?

that about it?
Yes, the book of life...

Yes...that's right, if a person's name is not there...then they will join
those who have rejected God with Satan...
and spend eternity in hell?
Yes.
It is as FAL says...

Just so you know - I know alot of good people who practice Christian values but have/will not accept God's salvation...

On the other hand, I know people (and I put myself in that category) who have
not practiced these values for most their lives...and honestly probably don't deserve God's grace...

But God makes a blanket deal to all...no 1 sin is any greater than another...and bottom line is no person is good enough or righteous enough no matter how they appear on the outside to make it heaven on their own...

So, only by John3:16 the verse is anyone able to get to heaven...

I don't make the rules, those rules will mean people I care about (family, etc.) will not be in heaven...but who am I to question God's judgement? Read the book of Job and God's response to Job when Job did...
the please explain the "perish" portion of that verse again for us dense ones. Somewhere in Revelations it says that at the end of Satans time, all the people in hell will be cast into the lake of fire...this is the second death...death of the soul...you will be no more.

If J3:16 says perish, and Rev backs it up...you can't burn forever

LOOT is just rying to figure out how long his sentence is going to be.
*Disclaimer* - I'm not a minister...nor am I trying to push my beliefs on anybody on this site. Anyone who doesn't want to discuss this topic, please ignore this post and go on about your business. Thanks

LOOT,

If I may comment....

The second death is spiritual death.....the first is the physical death. We all will experience the first. The second death is the one we have a choice whether we'll experience it or not. Jesus said that the only way to the Father is through Him(Jesus). So what that means is regardless of how many good deeds one does, or what they are, without Jesus, we can't get to the Father. Being denied this, is the second death....and it lasts forever.....and ever...and ever...and ever...times 50 trillion.....and so on.

John 3:16 says "....that so whoever believes in Him, should not perish, but have everlasting life"

That's saying that those who believe in Him, will not perish. But those who don't believe, WILL perish (again referring to second death)

We all deserve the second death, but Jesus took our place and died on the cross so we wouldn't have to experience this second death....but it doesn't mean that everybody gets a pass.....Jesus is the ONLY way to the Father.
agreed....maybe LOOT isn't being clear in the question.

Sinners will die a second death. A couple of people here have told LOOT that sinners will burn in hell forever.

LOOT doesn't believe that to be true because of the word "perish" and the stuff in Revelations.

There is a fundamental contradiction between burning forever and J316. How can you believe both? The most famous verse in the bible is, IMO says that hell is a temporary thing. While the "fire and brimstone" preachers that turned LOOT away from the church tell LOOT he's gonna burn forver.

Maybe LOOT isn't being clear.
Title: Re: A Higher Power
Post by: boomhauer on May 13, 2008, 02:33:00 PM
span style='font-size:14pt;line-height:100%'*Disclaimer* - I'm not a minister...nor am I trying to push my beliefs on anybody on this site. Anyone who doesn't want to discuss this topic, please ignore this post and go on about your business. Thanks/span

LOOT,

I'm not sure I understand where the contradiction is...

Perish = Die

I don't agree that the verse says hell is temporary.....

3:16 just reminds us that if we do believe in Him, we won't perish.

Hell, Lake of Fire.....it's all the same thing.

Basically, it all comes down to this....when we physically die, either we go be with God in Heaven, or we are not with Him....

not being with Him means we are in hell, lake of fire...whatever one wishes to call it.

I'm sorry that the "fire and brimstone" preachers turned you off from church. There are several of them out there.....but not all are like that.

I recommend speaking to someone one on one that can explain things better than the previous preachers did. At least seek some more credible advice/knowledge before totally ruling everything out. I know I'm not doing the best job of explaining this, so again, another reason to speak with as many people as you can so you don't have to form your opinion/belief off of the way a few people came across....

my .02
Title: Re: A Higher Power
Post by: loot on May 13, 2008, 02:59:00 PM
man...loot must not be speaking english

perish = die

eternity = forver ...opposite of die

J316 say you gunna die or have everlasting life...so how can hell be forever?

and loot is just poking at you guys cause its fun and loot is genuinely interested in how you can believe hell is an eternal thing when the most revered verse (J316) says it's not.

and loot looks to Aquaman as his definitive source on religion...(read with much, much sarcasm)
Title: Re: A Higher Power
Post by: boomhauer on May 13, 2008, 03:10:00 PM
Quote from: loot
man...loot must not be speaking english

perish = die

eternity = forver ...opposite of die

J316 say you gunna die or have everlasting life...so how can hell be forever?

and loot is just poking at you guys cause its fun and loot is genuinely interested in how you can believe hell is an eternal thing when the most revered verse (J316) says it's not.

and loot looks to Aquaman as his definitive source on religion...(read with much, much sarcasm)
Perish = Die

eternity = forever - NOT the opposit of Die. Once you're dead spritually, you're spiritually dead forever.


In the example we're talking about, death occurs, so that life stops, but time keeps going...for eternity. That's why we need to decide now whether we want to spend that infinite amount of time either spiritually alive(in Heaven) or spiritually dead(in hell).
Title: Re: A Higher Power
Post by: mns36 on May 13, 2008, 03:12:00 PM
Quote from: boomhauer
Quote from: loot
man...loot must not be speaking english

perish = die

eternity = forver ...opposite of die

J316 say you gunna die or have everlasting life...so how can hell be forever?

and loot is just poking at you guys cause its fun and loot is genuinely interested in how you can believe hell is an eternal thing when the most revered verse (J316) says it's not.

and loot looks to Aquaman as his definitive source on religion...(read with much, much sarcasm)
Perish = Die

Die does not necessarly mean eternity...

Just because someone/something dies, doesn't mean time stops.

In the example we're talking about, death occurs, so that life stops, but time keeps going...for eternity. That's why we need to decide now whether we want to spend that infinite amount of time either spiritually alive(in Heaven) or spiritually dead(in hell).
http://whywontgodhealamputees.com/soul.htm (http://whywontgodhealamputees.com/soul.htm)
Title: Re: A Higher Power
Post by: boomhauer on May 13, 2008, 03:36:00 PM
Quote from: mns36
Quote from: boomhauer
Quote from: loot
man...loot must not be speaking english

perish = die

eternity = forver ...opposite of die

J316 say you gunna die or have everlasting life...so how can hell be forever?

and loot is just poking at you guys cause its fun and loot is genuinely interested in how you can believe hell is an eternal thing when the most revered verse (J316) says it's not.

and loot looks to Aquaman as his definitive source on religion...(read with much, much sarcasm)
Perish = Die

Die does not necessarly mean eternity...

Just because someone/something dies, doesn't mean time stops.

In the example we're talking about, death occurs, so that life stops, but time keeps going...for eternity. That's why we need to decide now whether we want to spend that infinite amount of time either spiritually alive(in Heaven) or spiritually dead(in hell).
http://whywontgodhealamputees.com/soul.htm (http://whywontgodhealamputees.com/soul.htm)
MNS,

I certainly don't claim to be a minister, nor do I have a PhD in religious studies, only a bachelors in political science ;) .

I can't answer for the mosquitos and bacteria and all that mentioned in the article. I believe what the Bible says, and I don't know of a place in there that explains what happens to mice, goats, dogs etc when they die.

I do agree that there is no chemical makeup for the soul, you won't find it on an anatomy chart.

Since I base my beliefs off the Bible, my opinion will differ from anyone who doesn't believe in the Bible.....so it goes back to the age old argument.

I guess we have to agree to disagree
Title: Re: A Higher Power
Post by: loot on May 13, 2008, 03:41:00 PM
Quote from: boomhauer
Quote from: mns36
Quote from: boomhauer
Quote from: loot
man...loot must not be speaking english

perish = die

eternity = forver ...opposite of die

J316 say you gunna die or have everlasting life...so how can hell be forever?

and loot is just poking at you guys cause its fun and loot is genuinely interested in how you can believe hell is an eternal thing when the most revered verse (J316) says it's not.

and loot looks to Aquaman as his definitive source on religion...(read with much, much sarcasm)
Perish = Die

Die does not necessarly mean eternity...

Just because someone/something dies, doesn't mean time stops.

In the example we're talking about, death occurs, so that life stops, but time keeps going...for eternity. That's why we need to decide now whether we want to spend that infinite amount of time either spiritually alive(in Heaven) or spiritually dead(in hell).
http://whywontgodhealamputees.com/soul.htm (http://whywontgodhealamputees.com/soul.htm)
MNS,

I certainly don't claim to be a minister, nor do I have a PhD in religious studies, only a bachelors in political science ;) .

I can't answer for the mosquitos and bacteria and all that mentioned in the article. I believe what the Bible says, and I don't know of a place in there that explains what happens to mice, goats, dogs etc when they die.

I do agree that there is no chemical makeup for the soul, you won't find it on an anatomy chart.

Since I base my beliefs off the Bible, my opinion will differ from anyone who doesn't believe in the Bible.....so it goes back to the age old argument.

I guess we have to agree to disagree
PMNS...you just opened the floodgates...now LOOT thinks this should be moved to the religion thread and if LOOT knew how...it certainly would be
Title: Re: A Higher Power
Post by: boomhauer on May 13, 2008, 04:03:00 PM
Quote from: loot
Quote from: boomhauer
Quote from: mns36
Quote from: boomhauer
Quote from: loot
man...loot must not be speaking english

perish = die

eternity = forver ...opposite of die

J316 say you gunna die or have everlasting life...so how can hell be forever?

and loot is just poking at you guys cause its fun and loot is genuinely interested in how you can believe hell is an eternal thing when the most revered verse (J316) says it's not.

and loot looks to Aquaman as his definitive source on religion...(read with much, much sarcasm)
Perish = Die

Die does not necessarly mean eternity...

Just because someone/something dies, doesn't mean time stops.

In the example we're talking about, death occurs, so that life stops, but time keeps going...for eternity. That's why we need to decide now whether we want to spend that infinite amount of time either spiritually alive(in Heaven) or spiritually dead(in hell).
http://whywontgodhealamputees.com/soul.htm (http://whywontgodhealamputees.com/soul.htm)
MNS,

I certainly don't claim to be a minister, nor do I have a PhD in religious studies, only a bachelors in political science ;) .

I can't answer for the mosquitos and bacteria and all that mentioned in the article. I believe what the Bible says, and I don't know of a place in there that explains what happens to mice, goats, dogs etc when they die.

I do agree that there is no chemical makeup for the soul, you won't find it on an anatomy chart.

Since I base my beliefs off the Bible, my opinion will differ from anyone who doesn't believe in the Bible.....so it goes back to the age old argument.

I guess we have to agree to disagree
PMNS...you just opened the floodgates...now LOOT thinks this should be moved to the religion thread and if LOOT knew how...it certainly would be
Nah....at least for me, I'm not going to keep harping on it. This argument is as old as anything, and I doubt any of us will change anyone's mind on here anyway. I was just offering my .02, as was MMS, J316 and yourself.

You gentlemen have a good day and thanks for the thought provoking conversation!
Title: Re: A Higher Power
Post by: loot on May 13, 2008, 04:15:00 PM
agreed Boom

we'll talk about Catholics praying to Mary later
Title: Re: A Higher Power
Post by: boomhauer on May 13, 2008, 04:21:00 PM
Quote from: loot
agreed Boom

we'll talk about Catholics praying to Mary later
Sure, maybe we can start a thread in religion on that topic....I have some thoughts on that as well (I'm not Catholic, so I don't pray to Mary)...anyway...we can discuss later.
Title: Re: A Higher Power
Post by: free-at-last! on May 13, 2008, 04:51:00 PM
Quote from: boomhauer
Quote from: loot
agreed Boom

we'll talk about Catholics praying to Mary later
Sure, maybe we can start a thread in religion on that topic....I have some thoughts on that as well (I'm not Catholic, so I don't pray to Mary)...anyway...we can discuss later.
please do start a thread for that...and soon too...boomer is chopping at the bit....
Title: Re: A Higher Power
Post by: boomhauer on May 13, 2008, 05:25:00 PM
Quote from: free-at-last!
Quote from: boomhauer
Quote from: loot
agreed Boom

we'll talk about Catholics praying to Mary later
Sure, maybe we can start a thread in religion on that topic....I have some thoughts on that as well (I'm not Catholic, so I don't pray to Mary)...anyway...we can discuss later.
please do start a thread for that...and soon too...boomer is chopping at the bit....
:D
Title: Re: A Higher Power
Post by: John3:16 on May 13, 2008, 07:19:00 PM
Quote from: boomhauer
Quote from: loot
Quote from: John3:16
Quote from: free-at-last!
Quote from: loot
Quote from: John3:16
Quote from: loot
J316:

let loot make sure he understands your stance.

there is this magical book of life JC write names in...kinda like stellar Santa Clause...only instead of coal...you get your nads lit on fire for a while.  Then...at end times...when Satan is finally overthrown....he and his minion (folks who didn't make the candy cane list) are cast into a lake of fire and die a spiritual death?

that about it?
Yes, the book of life...

Yes...that's right, if a person's name is not there...then they will join
those who have rejected God with Satan...
and spend eternity in hell?
Yes.
It is as FAL says...

Just so you know - I know alot of good people who practice Christian values but have/will not accept God's salvation...

On the other hand, I know people (and I put myself in that category) who have
not practiced these values for most their lives...and honestly probably don't deserve God's grace...

But God makes a blanket deal to all...no 1 sin is any greater than another...and bottom line is no person is good enough or righteous enough no matter how they appear on the outside to make it heaven on their own...

So, only by John3:16 the verse is anyone able to get to heaven...

I don't make the rules, those rules will mean people I care about (family, etc.) will not be in heaven...but who am I to question God's judgement? Read the book of Job and God's response to Job when Job did...
the please explain the "perish" portion of that verse again for us dense ones. Somewhere in Revelations it says that at the end of Satans time, all the people in hell will be cast into the lake of fire...this is the second death...death of the soul...you will be no more.

If J3:16 says perish, and Rev backs it up...you can't burn forever

LOOT is just rying to figure out how long his sentence is going to be.
*Disclaimer* - I'm not a minister...nor am I trying to push my beliefs on anybody on this site. Anyone who doesn't want to discuss this topic, please ignore this post and go on about your business. Thanks

LOOT,

If I may comment....

The second death is spiritual death.....the first is the physical death. We all will experience the first. The second death is the one we have a choice whether we'll experience it or not. Jesus said that the only way to the Father is through Him(Jesus). So what that means is regardless of how many good deeds one does, or what they are, without Jesus, we can't get to the Father. Being denied this, is the second death....and it lasts forever.....and ever...and ever...and ever...times 50 trillion.....and so on.

John 3:16 says "....that so whoever believes in Him, should not perish, but have everlasting life"

That's saying that those who believe in Him, will not perish. But those who don't believe, WILL perish (again referring to second death)

We all deserve the second death, but Jesus took our place and died on the cross so we wouldn't have to experience this second death....but it doesn't mean that everybody gets a pass.....Jesus is the ONLY way to the Father.
well done...
Title: Re: A Higher Power
Post by: John3:16 on May 13, 2008, 07:26:00 PM
Ok Loot...

Maybe this will help...

http://www.wcg.org/lit/prophecy/perish.htm (http://www.wcg.org/lit/prophecy/perish.htm)
Title: Re: A Higher Power
Post by: loot on May 13, 2008, 08:52:00 PM
Quote from: John3:16
Ok Loot...

Maybe this will help...

http://www.wcg.org/lit/prophecy/perish.htm (http://www.wcg.org/lit/prophecy/perish.htm)
ha! that is more confusing that my feeble attempts to explain it...

Next question....when you die...do you immediately appear before St Peter or whoever and immediately go to heaven or hell?
Title: Re: A Higher Power
Post by: John3:16 on May 13, 2008, 10:42:00 PM
loot:

Some of this is open to interpretation...

One thing is for sure that you'll give an account of your life before God and he'll want to discuss what you did for him with the talents he gave you...not $$$ or success...only, how many people did you help save?

But those destined for hell will go immediately...they are forever separated from God...as they rejected God, and he gave them what they wanted - a place to dwell where God was absent...

Those destined for heaven will go to where heaven is today and await the 2nd coming of christ...

As ridiculus as it may sound, the final heaven after Christ returns and new Jerusalem is here on Earth...and at that point God will return to dwell on earth as he did in the days of Adam and Eve...

Sounds pretty far fetched, but I can accept that God's power is not limited to what our little human brains can believe...
Title: Re: A Higher Power
Post by: boomhauer on May 13, 2008, 10:47:00 PM
Quote from: John3:16
loot:

Some of this is open to interpretation...

One thing is for sure that you'll give an account of your life before God and he'll want to discuss what you did for him with the talents he gave you...not $$$ or success...only, how many people did you help save?

But those destined for hell will go immediately...they are forever separated from God...as they rejected God, and he gave them what they wanted - a place to dwell where God was absent...

Those destined for heaven will go to where heaven is today and await the 2nd coming of christ...

As ridiculus as it may sound, the final heaven after Christ returns and new Jerusalem is here on Earth...and at that point God will return to dwell on earth as he did in the days of Adam and Eve...

Sounds pretty far fetched, but I can accept that God's power is not limited to what our little human brains can believe...
I agree 100%....

you nailed it
Title: Re: A Higher Power
Post by: loot on May 14, 2008, 08:19:00 AM
Quote from: boomhauer
Quote from: John3:16
loot:

Some of this is open to interpretation...

One thing is for sure that you'll give an account of your life before God and he'll want to discuss what you did for him with the talents he gave you...not $$$ or success...only, how many people did you help save?

But those destined for hell will go immediately...they are forever separated from God...as they rejected God, and he gave them what they wanted - a place to dwell where God was absent...

Those destined for heaven will go to where heaven is today and await the 2nd coming of christ...

As ridiculus as it may sound, the final heaven after Christ returns and new Jerusalem is here on Earth...and at that point God will return to dwell on earth as he did in the days of Adam and Eve...

Sounds pretty far fetched, but I can accept that God's power is not limited to what our little human brains can believe...
I agree 100%....

you nailed it
and LOOTs got no problem with this...just interested in your opinions...I just happen to fall more in line with what Syn said in the religion thread.
Title: Re: A Higher Power
Post by: John3:16 on May 14, 2008, 09:24:00 AM
Quote from: loot
Quote from: boomhauer
Quote from: John3:16
loot:

Some of this is open to interpretation...

One thing is for sure that you'll give an account of your life before God and he'll want to discuss what you did for him with the talents he gave you...not $$$ or success...only, how many people did you help save?

But those destined for hell will go immediately...they are forever separated from God...as they rejected God, and he gave them what they wanted - a place to dwell where God was absent...

Those destined for heaven will go to where heaven is today and await the 2nd coming of christ...

As ridiculus as it may sound, the final heaven after Christ returns and new Jerusalem is here on Earth...and at that point God will return to dwell on earth as he did in the days of Adam and Eve...

Sounds pretty far fetched, but I can accept that God's power is not limited to what our little human brains can believe...
I agree 100%....

you nailed it
and LOOTs got no problem with this...just interested in your opinions...I just happen to fall more in line with what Syn said in the religion thread.
Yea,

I'll move over there...I really did not know it existed before I posted this thread...

But, if nothing else some good spirited conversation took place here...

And I did finish my introduction...I'm almost done with my HOF speech...and

will get on the Faces/etc. page...

I know I'm never going back to dipping, and I'm ashamed of myself for spending 30 years risking my life, cheating my family, and throwing away my $$$ to a company that could care less if their product killed me.

As for others here, with or without God I hope they can find the stamina to reject this stuff before it ruins their lives for good...