My PhuctUp Intro

[pab1964]

I wrote the following quote 19 days ago tomorrow, but not exactly as it's written below. It came from an AA book called As Bill Sees It. The difference in how it's written this time is that I've changed everything about drinking and AA and replaced it with dipping and KTC.

"It has often been said of KTC that we are interested only in attacking nicotine addiction. That is not true. We have to get over dipping in order to stay alive. But anyone who knows the nicotine addict's personality by firsthand contact knows that no true addict ever stops dipping permanently without undergoing a profound personality change."

I know it's only been 19 days. Trust me, I know. Please nobody attack me for sounding any amounts of profound after JUST 19 days. But think about that statement. It works for alcohol AND nicotine. Put both addictions together, like in my case, and it is ABSOLUTELY true. I would almost guarantee that each and every one of your personalities changed the further you moved away from dip. I wondered aloud on here when I caved why I liked that saying so much, and I think I have a little clearer answer as to why now. Yes, after ONLY 19 days I have a pretty definitive reason why I was drawn to that saying.

It's because I truly didn't believe it could ever happen to me. I did not think I was capable of a personality change so profound that I could stay away from my many addictions. Now I know it can change that profoundly. I know I can change the parts of me that I truly despise and, in turn, alter my own personality. I can already feel it happening. I'm not about to say something stupid like "I'm cured" after 19 days. I'm not an idiot. I'm not going to presume that I have suddenly won the trust of everybody on this site. Hell no. I know I haven't. That's stupid. I probably won't say either of those things a year from now either.

But I see it in my attitude every morning when I wake up. I see it in the way I smile at absolutely nothing. I see it in the little ways a man who was wholly selfish for 20 plus years is finding himself astonished by the thoughts that are starting to be about my wife, my kids, my coworkers, new KTC friends, even random people on the road I used to flip off because they were making me late for a dip and a beer. It's just little stuff. But I now know it's possible.

I don't have to guess at what's different. I absolutely know what's different this time. I completely and wholeheartedly gave up trying to beat addiction alone. I just quit. I gave up. It was just not for me to try to do alone anymore. I gave my addiction to you guys. I gave it to a couple of different groups of AA. I allowed you all to help me. It was absolutely terrifying and yet it was the best decision I've made in my entire life, and that includes my wife and kids. I literally quit pride and ego before I ever quit dip and alcohol. And for that, I'm exceedingly proud. I actually respect myself for the first time in my adult life. I have half-assed a number of stoppages in my life, from dip and/or alcohol, but I went all in this time. A good Christian would say they gave themselves to the Lord. Well, I'm not a very good Christian (yet, maybe), but I gave myself to KTC and AA. I gave my life to a bunch of strangers and asked you to help me save it. And that decision is more important than the decision to marry my wife. And I'd tell her the same thing. I love her with all my heart, but only a bunch of strangers just like me can save my life.

The people caving all around me has actually been really good for me. I haven't enjoyed it necessarily, but I sat around here for 84 days sympathizing with the cavers, even privately consoling them. I was doing that because I knew in my heart I wasn't done. I wasn't mad enough yet. Mostly, though, I simply wasn't ready to admit I needed help. All the people around me caving, they aren't there yet. They are too proud to ask for help.  I truly believe that anybody who has dipped for ANY amount of time knows they should quit. I'd venture to guess that they even want to. But very few of them have the ability to drop every ounce of ego, kneel at the alter of KTC, AA, NA, SA, whatever, and just say, "I need all of you or I will kill myself."

If you're new and you think you can do it alone, I wish you luck. Come read this and many, many brilliant quitters that came before me when you fail. If you are new and think you can post roll and have absolutely NO relationship with people on this site that TRULY care about you and they don't even freaking know you? Good luck. You'll do the same thing I did 19 days ago and a few others recently did. You won't be close enough to call these people your friends. And if you are ANY kind of person, you will NOT let your friends down. You have to get involved. You have to make friends. You have to give your addiction to somebody else and say, "I need some help with this? Would you mind?" And when you do that, you don't get just one or two people to help you, you literally get hundreds. I've become so involved here that people are probably going to grow sick of me, but I TRULY DO NOT CARE. Y'all are saving my life. I am actually very thankful that I caved 19 days ago. It made me give up and give all my addictions to you guys and those wonderful rooms of AA.

Yeah, all the things I've just said might sound kinda big and robust for 19 days, but you're talking about a man that battled three kinds of addiction with a nice depression syrup on top. I haven't believed in myself in a LONG time. And I mean REALLY believed in myself. I believe in me because a lot of you guys have shown me HOW to believe in me. I actually like the man that looks back at me in the mirror, even naked with the extra ten pounds of chocolate. So this is just a great big thanks for that. I might not be the best Christian, but I thank God for this place of refuge and hope every single day. I've never seen a single one of your faces, but I just love you all.

Wow.

Outstanding stuff, bro. Just... outstanding.

There really does come that moment when you own what you're doing. For some it's right at the beginning. For others... well... it's later or never.

Push on through, man. Freedom gets waaaaay better and it's so damn cool.

Good on ya...

Anything I would say to try and add to what AJ just said wouldn't be worth your time to read it.

Absolutely LOVE the way you came back and owned this quit.... It's nice to sit back and watch you work your magic in September '17!

Real proud of you, PU! The Phoenix has risen from the ashes.

The story of a man finding himself! Very well said my friend, if you don't love yourself it's hard to truly love others. It's truly amazing how ktc has helped me change so many different things in my life because I was taught I can do anything one day at a time! Ktc is God sent, I honestly believe that. Damn proud to be quitting with you today

[FLLipOut]

I wrote the following quote 19 days ago tomorrow, but not exactly as it's written below. It came from an AA book called As Bill Sees It. The difference in how it's written this time is that I've changed everything about drinking and AA and replaced it with dipping and KTC.

"It has often been said of KTC that we are interested only in attacking nicotine addiction. That is not true. We have to get over dipping in order to stay alive. But anyone who knows the nicotine addict's personality by firsthand contact knows that no true addict ever stops dipping permanently without undergoing a profound personality change."

I know it's only been 19 days. Trust me, I know. Please nobody attack me for sounding any amounts of profound after JUST 19 days. But think about that statement. It works for alcohol AND nicotine. Put both addictions together, like in my case, and it is ABSOLUTELY true. I would almost guarantee that each and every one of your personalities changed the further you moved away from dip. I wondered aloud on here when I caved why I liked that saying so much, and I think I have a little clearer answer as to why now. Yes, after ONLY 19 days I have a pretty definitive reason why I was drawn to that saying.

It's because I truly didn't believe it could ever happen to me. I did not think I was capable of a personality change so profound that I could stay away from my many addictions. Now I know it can change that profoundly. I know I can change the parts of me that I truly despise and, in turn, alter my own personality. I can already feel it happening. I'm not about to say something stupid like "I'm cured" after 19 days. I'm not an idiot. I'm not going to presume that I have suddenly won the trust of everybody on this site. Hell no. I know I haven't. That's stupid. I probably won't say either of those things a year from now either.

But I see it in my attitude every morning when I wake up. I see it in the way I smile at absolutely nothing. I see it in the little ways a man who was wholly selfish for 20 plus years is finding himself astonished by the thoughts that are starting to be about my wife, my kids, my coworkers, new KTC friends, even random people on the road I used to flip off because they were making me late for a dip and a beer. It's just little stuff. But I now know it's possible.

I don't have to guess at what's different. I absolutely know what's different this time. I completely and wholeheartedly gave up trying to beat addiction alone. I just quit. I gave up. It was just not for me to try to do alone anymore. I gave my addiction to you guys. I gave it to a couple of different groups of AA. I allowed you all to help me. It was absolutely terrifying and yet it was the best decision I've made in my entire life, and that includes my wife and kids. I literally quit pride and ego before I ever quit dip and alcohol. And for that, I'm exceedingly proud. I actually respect myself for the first time in my adult life. I have half-assed a number of stoppages in my life, from dip and/or alcohol, but I went all in this time. A good Christian would say they gave themselves to the Lord. Well, I'm not a very good Christian (yet, maybe), but I gave myself to KTC and AA. I gave my life to a bunch of strangers and asked you to help me save it. And that decision is more important than the decision to marry my wife. And I'd tell her the same thing. I love her with all my heart, but only a bunch of strangers just like me can save my life.

The people caving all around me has actually been really good for me. I haven't enjoyed it necessarily, but I sat around here for 84 days sympathizing with the cavers, even privately consoling them. I was doing that because I knew in my heart I wasn't done. I wasn't mad enough yet. Mostly, though, I simply wasn't ready to admit I needed help. All the people around me caving, they aren't there yet. They are too proud to ask for help. I truly believe that anybody who has dipped for ANY amount of time knows they should quit. I'd venture to guess that they even want to. But very few of them have the ability to drop every ounce of ego, kneel at the alter of KTC, AA, NA, SA, whatever, and just say, "I need all of you or I will kill myself."

If you're new and you think you can do it alone, I wish you luck. Come read this and many, many brilliant quitters that came before me when you fail. If you are new and think you can post roll and have absolutely NO relationship with people on this site that TRULY care about you and they don't even freaking know you? Good luck. You'll do the same thing I did 19 days ago and a few others recently did. You won't be close enough to call these people your friends. And if you are ANY kind of person, you will NOT let your friends down. You have to get involved. You have to make friends. You have to give your addiction to somebody else and say, "I need some help with this? Would you mind?" And when you do that, you don't get just one or two people to help you, you literally get hundreds. I've become so involved here that people are probably going to grow sick of me, but I TRULY DO NOT CARE. Y'all are saving my life. I am actually very thankful that I caved 19 days ago. It made me give up and give all my addictions to you guys and those wonderful rooms of AA.

Yeah, all the things I've just said might sound kinda big and robust for 19 days, but you're talking about a man that battled three kinds of addiction with a nice depression syrup on top. I haven't believed in myself in a LONG time. And I mean REALLY believed in myself. I believe in me because a lot of you guys have shown me HOW to believe in me. I actually like the man that looks back at me in the mirror, even naked with the extra ten pounds of chocolate. So this is just a great big thanks for that. I might not be the best Christian, but I thank God for this place of refuge and hope every single day. I've never seen a single one of your faces, but I just love you all.

Wow.

Outstanding stuff, bro. Just... outstanding.

There really does come that moment when you own what you're doing. For some it's right at the beginning. For others... well... it's later or never.

Push on through, man. Freedom gets waaaaay better and it's so damn cool.

Good on ya...

Anything I would say to try and add to what AJ just said wouldn't be worth your time to read it.

Absolutely LOVE the way you came back and owned this quit.... It's nice to sit back and watch you work your magic in September '17!

Real proud of you, PU! The Phoenix has risen from the ashes.

[CavMan83]

I wrote the following quote 19 days ago tomorrow, but not exactly as it's written below. It came from an AA book called As Bill Sees It. The difference in how it's written this time is that I've changed everything about drinking and AA and replaced it with dipping and KTC.

"It has often been said of KTC that we are interested only in attacking nicotine addiction. That is not true. We have to get over dipping in order to stay alive. But anyone who knows the nicotine addict's personality by firsthand contact knows that no true addict ever stops dipping permanently without undergoing a profound personality change."

I know it's only been 19 days. Trust me, I know. Please nobody attack me for sounding any amounts of profound after JUST 19 days. But think about that statement. It works for alcohol AND nicotine. Put both addictions together, like in my case, and it is ABSOLUTELY true. I would almost guarantee that each and every one of your personalities changed the further you moved away from dip. I wondered aloud on here when I caved why I liked that saying so much, and I think I have a little clearer answer as to why now. Yes, after ONLY 19 days I have a pretty definitive reason why I was drawn to that saying.

It's because I truly didn't believe it could ever happen to me. I did not think I was capable of a personality change so profound that I could stay away from my many addictions. Now I know it can change that profoundly. I know I can change the parts of me that I truly despise and, in turn, alter my own personality. I can already feel it happening. I'm not about to say something stupid like "I'm cured" after 19 days. I'm not an idiot. I'm not going to presume that I have suddenly won the trust of everybody on this site. Hell no. I know I haven't. That's stupid. I probably won't say either of those things a year from now either.

But I see it in my attitude every morning when I wake up. I see it in the way I smile at absolutely nothing. I see it in the little ways a man who was wholly selfish for 20 plus years is finding himself astonished by the thoughts that are starting to be about my wife, my kids, my coworkers, new KTC friends, even random people on the road I used to flip off because they were making me late for a dip and a beer. It's just little stuff. But I now know it's possible.

I don't have to guess at what's different. I absolutely know what's different this time. I completely and wholeheartedly gave up trying to beat addiction alone. I just quit. I gave up. It was just not for me to try to do alone anymore. I gave my addiction to you guys. I gave it to a couple of different groups of AA. I allowed you all to help me. It was absolutely terrifying and yet it was the best decision I've made in my entire life, and that includes my wife and kids. I literally quit pride and ego before I ever quit dip and alcohol. And for that, I'm exceedingly proud. I actually respect myself for the first time in my adult life. I have half-assed a number of stoppages in my life, from dip and/or alcohol, but I went all in this time. A good Christian would say they gave themselves to the Lord. Well, I'm not a very good Christian (yet, maybe), but I gave myself to KTC and AA. I gave my life to a bunch of strangers and asked you to help me save it. And that decision is more important than the decision to marry my wife. And I'd tell her the same thing. I love her with all my heart, but only a bunch of strangers just like me can save my life.

The people caving all around me has actually been really good for me. I haven't enjoyed it necessarily, but I sat around here for 84 days sympathizing with the cavers, even privately consoling them. I was doing that because I knew in my heart I wasn't done. I wasn't mad enough yet. Mostly, though, I simply wasn't ready to admit I needed help. All the people around me caving, they aren't there yet. They are too proud to ask for help. I truly believe that anybody who has dipped for ANY amount of time knows they should quit. I'd venture to guess that they even want to. But very few of them have the ability to drop every ounce of ego, kneel at the alter of KTC, AA, NA, SA, whatever, and just say, "I need all of you or I will kill myself."

If you're new and you think you can do it alone, I wish you luck. Come read this and many, many brilliant quitters that came before me when you fail. If you are new and think you can post roll and have absolutely NO relationship with people on this site that TRULY care about you and they don't even freaking know you? Good luck. You'll do the same thing I did 19 days ago and a few others recently did. You won't be close enough to call these people your friends. And if you are ANY kind of person, you will NOT let your friends down. You have to get involved. You have to make friends. You have to give your addiction to somebody else and say, "I need some help with this? Would you mind?" And when you do that, you don't get just one or two people to help you, you literally get hundreds. I've become so involved here that people are probably going to grow sick of me, but I TRULY DO NOT CARE. Y'all are saving my life. I am actually very thankful that I caved 19 days ago. It made me give up and give all my addictions to you guys and those wonderful rooms of AA.

Yeah, all the things I've just said might sound kinda big and robust for 19 days, but you're talking about a man that battled three kinds of addiction with a nice depression syrup on top. I haven't believed in myself in a LONG time. And I mean REALLY believed in myself. I believe in me because a lot of you guys have shown me HOW to believe in me. I actually like the man that looks back at me in the mirror, even naked with the extra ten pounds of chocolate. So this is just a great big thanks for that. I might not be the best Christian, but I thank God for this place of refuge and hope every single day. I've never seen a single one of your faces, but I just love you all.

Wow.

Outstanding stuff, bro. Just... outstanding.

There really does come that moment when you own what you're doing. For some it's right at the beginning. For others... well... it's later or never.

Push on through, man. Freedom gets waaaaay better and it's so damn cool.

Good on ya...

Anything I would say to try and add to what AJ just said wouldn't be worth your time to read it.

Absolutely LOVE the way you came back and owned this quit.... It's nice to sit back and watch you work your magic in September '17!

[AppleJack]

I wrote the following quote 19 days ago tomorrow, but not exactly as it's written below. It came from an AA book called As Bill Sees It. The difference in how it's written this time is that I've changed everything about drinking and AA and replaced it with dipping and KTC.

"It has often been said of KTC that we are interested only in attacking nicotine addiction. That is not true. We have to get over dipping in order to stay alive. But anyone who knows the nicotine addict's personality by firsthand contact knows that no true addict ever stops dipping permanently without undergoing a profound personality change."

I know it's only been 19 days. Trust me, I know. Please nobody attack me for sounding any amounts of profound after JUST 19 days. But think about that statement. It works for alcohol AND nicotine. Put both addictions together, like in my case, and it is ABSOLUTELY true. I would almost guarantee that each and every one of your personalities changed the further you moved away from dip. I wondered aloud on here when I caved why I liked that saying so much, and I think I have a little clearer answer as to why now. Yes, after ONLY 19 days I have a pretty definitive reason why I was drawn to that saying.

It's because I truly didn't believe it could ever happen to me. I did not think I was capable of a personality change so profound that I could stay away from my many addictions. Now I know it can change that profoundly. I know I can change the parts of me that I truly despise and, in turn, alter my own personality. I can already feel it happening. I'm not about to say something stupid like "I'm cured" after 19 days. I'm not an idiot. I'm not going to presume that I have suddenly won the trust of everybody on this site. Hell no. I know I haven't. That's stupid. I probably won't say either of those things a year from now either.

But I see it in my attitude every morning when I wake up. I see it in the way I smile at absolutely nothing. I see it in the little ways a man who was wholly selfish for 20 plus years is finding himself astonished by the thoughts that are starting to be about my wife, my kids, my coworkers, new KTC friends, even random people on the road I used to flip off because they were making me late for a dip and a beer. It's just little stuff. But I now know it's possible.

I don't have to guess at what's different. I absolutely know what's different this time. I completely and wholeheartedly gave up trying to beat addiction alone. I just quit. I gave up. It was just not for me to try to do alone anymore. I gave my addiction to you guys. I gave it to a couple of different groups of AA. I allowed you all to help me. It was absolutely terrifying and yet it was the best decision I've made in my entire life, and that includes my wife and kids. I literally quit pride and ego before I ever quit dip and alcohol. And for that, I'm exceedingly proud. I actually respect myself for the first time in my adult life. I have half-assed a number of stoppages in my life, from dip and/or alcohol, but I went all in this time. A good Christian would say they gave themselves to the Lord. Well, I'm not a very good Christian (yet, maybe), but I gave myself to KTC and AA. I gave my life to a bunch of strangers and asked you to help me save it. And that decision is more important than the decision to marry my wife. And I'd tell her the same thing. I love her with all my heart, but only a bunch of strangers just like me can save my life.

The people caving all around me has actually been really good for me. I haven't enjoyed it necessarily, but I sat around here for 84 days sympathizing with the cavers, even privately consoling them. I was doing that because I knew in my heart I wasn't done. I wasn't mad enough yet. Mostly, though, I simply wasn't ready to admit I needed help. All the people around me caving, they aren't there yet. They are too proud to ask for help. I truly believe that anybody who has dipped for ANY amount of time knows they should quit. I'd venture to guess that they even want to. But very few of them have the ability to drop every ounce of ego, kneel at the alter of KTC, AA, NA, SA, whatever, and just say, "I need all of you or I will kill myself."

If you're new and you think you can do it alone, I wish you luck. Come read this and many, many brilliant quitters that came before me when you fail. If you are new and think you can post roll and have absolutely NO relationship with people on this site that TRULY care about you and they don't even freaking know you? Good luck. You'll do the same thing I did 19 days ago and a few others recently did. You won't be close enough to call these people your friends. And if you are ANY kind of person, you will NOT let your friends down. You have to get involved. You have to make friends. You have to give your addiction to somebody else and say, "I need some help with this? Would you mind?" And when you do that, you don't get just one or two people to help you, you literally get hundreds. I've become so involved here that people are probably going to grow sick of me, but I TRULY DO NOT CARE. Y'all are saving my life. I am actually very thankful that I caved 19 days ago. It made me give up and give all my addictions to you guys and those wonderful rooms of AA.

Yeah, all the things I've just said might sound kinda big and robust for 19 days, but you're talking about a man that battled three kinds of addiction with a nice depression syrup on top. I haven't believed in myself in a LONG time. And I mean REALLY believed in myself. I believe in me because a lot of you guys have shown me HOW to believe in me. I actually like the man that looks back at me in the mirror, even naked with the extra ten pounds of chocolate. So this is just a great big thanks for that. I might not be the best Christian, but I thank God for this place of refuge and hope every single day. I've never seen a single one of your faces, but I just love you all.

Wow.

Outstanding stuff, bro. Just... outstanding.

There really does come that moment when you own what you're doing. For some it's right at the beginning. For others... well... it's later or never.

Push on through, man. Freedom gets waaaaay better and it's so damn cool.

Good on ya...

[PhuctUp]

I wrote the following quote 19 days ago tomorrow, but not exactly as it's written below. It came from an AA book called As Bill Sees It. The difference in how it's written this time is that I've changed everything about drinking and AA and replaced it with dipping and KTC.

"It has often been said of KTC that we are interested only in attacking nicotine addiction. That is not true. We have to get over dipping in order to stay alive. But anyone who knows the nicotine addict's personality by firsthand contact knows that no true addict ever stops dipping permanently without undergoing a profound personality change."

I know it's only been 19 days. Trust me, I know. Please nobody attack me for sounding any amounts of profound after JUST 19 days. But think about that statement. It works for alcohol AND nicotine. Put both addictions together, like in my case, and it is ABSOLUTELY true. I would almost guarantee that each and every one of your personalities changed the further you moved away from dip. I wondered aloud on here when I caved why I liked that saying so much, and I think I have a little clearer answer as to why now. Yes, after ONLY 19 days I have a pretty definitive reason why I was drawn to that saying.

It's because I truly didn't believe it could ever happen to me. I did not think I was capable of a personality change so profound that I could stay away from my many addictions. Now I know it can change that profoundly. I know I can change the parts of me that I truly despise and, in turn, alter my own personality. I can already feel it happening. I'm not about to say something stupid like "I'm cured" after 19 days. I'm not an idiot. I'm not going to presume that I have suddenly won the trust of everybody on this site. Hell no. I know I haven't. That's stupid. I probably won't say either of those things a year from now either.

But I see it in my attitude every morning when I wake up. I see it in the way I smile at absolutely nothing. I see it in the little ways a man who was wholly selfish for 20 plus years is finding himself astonished by the thoughts that are starting to be about my wife, my kids, my coworkers, new KTC friends, even random people on the road I used to flip off because they were making me late for a dip and a beer. It's just little stuff. But I now know it's possible.

I don't have to guess at what's different. I absolutely know what's different this time. I completely and wholeheartedly gave up trying to beat addiction alone. I just quit. I gave up. It was just not for me to try to do alone anymore. I gave my addiction to you guys. I gave it to a couple of different groups of AA. I allowed you all to help me. It was absolutely terrifying and yet it was the best decision I've made in my entire life, and that includes my wife and kids. I literally quit pride and ego before I ever quit dip and alcohol. And for that, I'm exceedingly proud. I actually respect myself for the first time in my adult life. I have half-assed a number of stoppages in my life, from dip and/or alcohol, but I went all in this time. A good Christian would say they gave themselves to the Lord. Well, I'm not a very good Christian (yet, maybe), but I gave myself to KTC and AA. I gave my life to a bunch of strangers and asked you to help me save it. And that decision is more important than the decision to marry my wife. And I'd tell her the same thing. I love her with all my heart, but only a bunch of strangers just like me can save my life.

The people caving all around me has actually been really good for me. I haven't enjoyed it necessarily, but I sat around here for 84 days sympathizing with the cavers, even privately consoling them. I was doing that because I knew in my heart I wasn't done. I wasn't mad enough yet. Mostly, though, I simply wasn't ready to admit I needed help. All the people around me caving, they aren't there yet. They are too proud to ask for help. I truly believe that anybody who has dipped for ANY amount of time knows they should quit. I'd venture to guess that they even want to. But very few of them have the ability to drop every ounce of ego, kneel at the alter of KTC, AA, NA, SA, whatever, and just say, "I need all of you or I will kill myself."

If you're new and you think you can do it alone, I wish you luck. Come read this and many, many brilliant quitters that came before me when you fail. If you are new and think you can post roll and have absolutely NO relationship with people on this site that TRULY care about you and they don't even freaking know you? Good luck. You'll do the same thing I did 19 days ago and a few others recently did. You won't be close enough to call these people your friends. And if you are ANY kind of person, you will NOT let your friends down. You have to get involved. You have to make friends. You have to give your addiction to somebody else and say, "I need some help with this? Would you mind?" And when you do that, you don't get just one or two people to help you, you literally get hundreds. I've become so involved here that people are probably going to grow sick of me, but I TRULY DO NOT CARE. Y'all are saving my life. I am actually very thankful that I caved 19 days ago. It made me give up and give all my addictions to you guys and those wonderful rooms of AA.

Yeah, all the things I've just said might sound kinda big and robust for 19 days, but you're talking about a man that battled three kinds of addiction with a nice depression syrup on top. I haven't believed in myself in a LONG time. And I mean REALLY believed in myself. I believe in me because a lot of you guys have shown me HOW to believe in me. I actually like the man that looks back at me in the mirror, even naked with the extra ten pounds of chocolate. So this is just a great big thanks for that. I might not be the best Christian, but I thank God for this place of refuge and hope every single day. I've never seen a single one of your faces, but I just love you all.

[PhuctUp]

Hey bud,

I'm no shrink, so please take what I have to say as brother-to-brother, not as any sort of prescriptive advice. First, it took me nearly three full months to feel anything close to what I would classify as "normal". I'm a generally upbeat person, but there were some very long, very gray days that first summer of 2014. Then one afternoon, standing on my back deck, all of a sudden I realized just how colorful the flowers were, how deep green the lawn, how crystal blue the skies. That was a turning point.... the days that followed weren't all sunshine and rainbows, but that afternoon began sort of a transformation.... slowly the gray days where I was just foggily muddling through gave way to more and more moments of clarity and true thanksgiving that I finally was beginning to control something that had controlled me for nearly four decades.

So, yeah, I think time has an awful lot to do with it. I also think you need to be intentional about seeking out those things that gave you (and still give you) joy, peace, and contentment. For me, I feel best when I am involved in helping others who need it. I truly believe if you focus on helping others, you wind up feeling much better about yourself. That old saying about it being better to give than receive truly does have some merit.

I think you have my numbers. If you ever need to use them, please don't hesitate. You have much better days ahead....you'll get there!

Thanks guys. I'll take quitter shrinks over real shrinks all damn day. It's one reason I continue to refuse when my wife mentions going to see a counselor. None of them are former addicts!!!! At least none that I've heard of around me. Even still, the next thing I contest is that any addict that has fought it for any length of time should know every damn thing a "real" shrink can possibly say anyway. So why waste the money hearing shit you already know!!!! That's why I'd rather bring my shit to you guys.

I was coming home from work today before reading what you guys wrote, and I just started crying. I just want the demons to go away. I just want my life, my wife, my kids, hell, even the two dogs that live here that I don't really like to bring me joy. I know it's just time. I believe you're both right about that. But these fucking demons put all this shit that ruled my life on pedestals and somehow my brain just glorifies it until it drives me fucking mad.

I just wouldn't wish addiction on anybody. And anybody that says addiction isn't a mental illness is out of their fucking minds. It absolutely is. And I hate it. Can't wait for that day you guys are talking about. Until then, Welbutrin is no match for an addicts mind.

But I will win this time. This shit will not beat me. I won't fucking let it.

Okay, I have been sitting back thinking about how to respond with what has happened recently. I am an addict, and I am a therapist. YOU want to know about me, look at my introduction: Do not feed the Gorillia topic/30173119/1/#new

First I would like to say that we all grow up in these families and around different people, this is where we learn to cope with what happens in our lives. Whether it is a good coping mechanism or a bad coping mechanism. This is where we gain our knowledge and use it. To me, seeing a therapist is adding a different tool to handle things that happen to us. Quit using a damn screw driver to pull a 3.5" deck screw out, use a power screw driver. Many of us have that background that you do not believe exists in the field of therapy. Besides, you have the key to fix yourself, people like me do not. We can just bring a different perspective into it. Yes some therapist are better than others depending on who you are. We all have different backgrounds, different educations, and different personal drivers to do the thing that we do: helping others. Man my nose is itching.

The first thing to realize is, your brain is not your friend. Okay, it is like this. Where would you be today, right this very minute as you are reading, if you had listened to, and acted on/or did, every thought that crossed your mind. Where????

Next, realize that we pick and chose what thoughts that are thrown at us to think on. (by the way, is your nose itching) We chose to ignore some, and we chose to think about others. Now, recognize that our brain is doing its job, it is using everything that it has experienced, saw, read about, soaked in, or fears, and wants to use this information to predict the future to protect you. It is always trying to manage pain(emotional) and keep you physically safe from your environment, as well as those around you. Do not judge your thoughts as either good or bad, your brain is doing what it perceives as its job. Sadly, most of what it is throwing are balls of shit at your barn wall. Do not pick up the shit ball, it sticks to you. In a different way of looking at it, think of your thoughts like a comic word bubble, or shall we call it word balloon. As these balloon thoughts float by, recognize them as just thoughts, your brain is doing its job. Now, that balloon has a string attached, and when we start latching onto the string, or thought bubble, it sticks to us. (Is your nose itching?) It is like it has Velcro attached or like a spider web, the harder you fight the thought, the more it strings around and attaches to you. Fuck, it is hard to wipe a spider web off, it sticks. This is what happens when we focus on a thought. It sticks to us, and our mind really does not want to let it go. It keeps going back and mulling it over... don't grab the string/spider web/shit ball. Recognize your brain is just working over time.

Okay, I saw that you were joining AA, good stuff. Do not be afraid of talking to someone. I would recommend someone skilled in Acceptance Commitment Therapy(ACT) or Cognitive Behavioral Therapy (CBT). Both are really good, I prefer ACT myself. It has you looking at living in the moment, which is all that really matters. You cannot change yesterday, odds are against you predicting tomorrow accurately. So, did you touch your nose? Mindfulness applies to both, look it up and learn diaphragmatic deep breathing. If someone like me can do this, truly, someone like you can too... PM me anytime you would like, I know it is not easy, but life is not easy. Getting sober and clean will be one of the hardest things you have ever done, but it is more than worth it!!! I have to say, being clean and sober is the most rewarding thing that I have ever done. As someone who has been there, YOU can do this...

So I read this earlier and told me wife about it. She rolled her eyes. She knew exactly what my thoughts were. She's tried to get me to see a counselor many, many times. She has tried and tried to pinpoint the reason for what is essentially this: I lack confidence in myself to be successful at pretty much anything except my job, which leads to temporary depression which leads to reclusion which inevitably leads to my "happy place" of nic and beer. Those may not be her exact words for how she sees it, but that's how I see it (because I quit both seven hundred times and always came back after pretty much hitting those same steps.) She also thinks there's some long-suppressed feelings from the loss of my first wife when my daughter was really small. That's most definitely not true because I am all-in with my new wife, but I spent a number of years as a single dad, which is really when the alcohol problems started. Rather than choosing to be the young, single, widowed dad dating as many single moms as I could, I chose to stay in and drink and dip, even when my daughter was staying somewhere else. Smart guy, huh?

But the real reason she rolled her eyes when I told her about your post is because I have always said, "Going to a therapist will literally anger me because I know everything they can possibly say. Everything. They cannot surprise me with what they say." For now, I'll back off that a little. You're pretty much dead on. And I NEVER would have thought of those analogies.

My favorite question you asked was about where would we be if we acted on every thought we ever had. In a nutshell, I think that's what happened. I grabbed all those thought balloons and they kept destroying my brain for much, much longer than I've ever allowed (because I no longer had my typical "releases,") and my normal sporadic, short-lived depression ballooned into some atypical reclusion. And for me, that reclusion meant there was no way in hell I was going to ask for help and there was no way in hell it wasn't going to end in failure and a cave, but the part that will probably bother me forever is that there is no way in hell I ever could have foreseen taking money from my daughter in order to not alert my wife that I had taken money out of our account. That was a brand new level of depression and irrationality. I had raped my brain with all those thoughts so badly at that point that I had somehow rationalized it to be ok.

The one thing I'm proud about, and you guys can see it this way or not, I really don't care, but I confessed pretty damn quickly. Yes, it took me a few days to get over the depression of what I had done, but I confessed. I didn't have to. I could have taken it to my grave. I don't want a cookie or a pat on the back for fucking doing what was right, but alcoholics lie!! That's one thing we're REALLY freaking good at. We lie!! But that's just simply not the man I am going to allow myself to be anymore. It was very humbling. And now, not only am I a proud member of AA, I'm getting my ass involved here as much as I possibly can, and I'm not against seeing a therapist or counselor. Thanks a bunch for the input. I'm going to read your post again tomorrow because I'm sure I missed something.

[Missouri Mike]

Hey bud,

I'm no shrink, so please take what I have to say as brother-to-brother, not as any sort of prescriptive advice. First, it took me nearly three full months to feel anything close to what I would classify as "normal". I'm a generally upbeat person, but there were some very long, very gray days that first summer of 2014. Then one afternoon, standing on my back deck, all of a sudden I realized just how colorful the flowers were, how deep green the lawn, how crystal blue the skies. That was a turning point.... the days that followed weren't all sunshine and rainbows, but that afternoon began sort of a transformation.... slowly the gray days where I was just foggily muddling through gave way to more and more moments of clarity and true thanksgiving that I finally was beginning to control something that had controlled me for nearly four decades.

So, yeah, I think time has an awful lot to do with it. I also think you need to be intentional about seeking out those things that gave you (and still give you) joy, peace, and contentment. For me, I feel best when I am involved in helping others who need it. I truly believe if you focus on helping others, you wind up feeling much better about yourself. That old saying about it being better to give than receive truly does have some merit.

I think you have my numbers. If you ever need to use them, please don't hesitate. You have much better days ahead....you'll get there!

Thanks guys. I'll take quitter shrinks over real shrinks all damn day. It's one reason I continue to refuse when my wife mentions going to see a counselor. None of them are former addicts!!!! At least none that I've heard of around me. Even still, the next thing I contest is that any addict that has fought it for any length of time should know every damn thing a "real" shrink can possibly say anyway. So why waste the money hearing shit you already know!!!! That's why I'd rather bring my shit to you guys.

I was coming home from work today before reading what you guys wrote, and I just started crying. I just want the demons to go away. I just want my life, my wife, my kids, hell, even the two dogs that live here that I don't really like to bring me joy. I know it's just time. I believe you're both right about that. But these fucking demons put all this shit that ruled my life on pedestals and somehow my brain just glorifies it until it drives me fucking mad.

I just wouldn't wish addiction on anybody. And anybody that says addiction isn't a mental illness is out of their fucking minds. It absolutely is. And I hate it. Can't wait for that day you guys are talking about. Until then, Welbutrin is no match for an addicts mind.

But I will win this time. This shit will not beat me. I won't fucking let it.

Okay, I have been sitting back thinking about how to respond with what has happened recently. I am an addict, and I am a therapist. YOU want to know about me, look at my introduction: Do not feed the Gorillia topic/30173119/1/#new

First I would like to say that we all grow up in these families and around different people, this is where we learn to cope with what happens in our lives. Whether it is a good coping mechanism or a bad coping mechanism. This is where we gain our knowledge and use it. To me, seeing a therapist is adding a different tool to handle things that happen to us. Quit using a damn screw driver to pull a 3.5" deck screw out, use a power screw driver. Many of us have that background that you do not believe exists in the field of therapy. Besides, you have the key to fix yourself, people like me do not. We can just bring a different perspective into it. Yes some therapist are better than others depending on who you are. We all have different backgrounds, different educations, and different personal drivers to do the thing that we do: helping others. Man my nose is itching.

The first thing to realize is, your brain is not your friend. Okay, it is like this. Where would you be today, right this very minute as you are reading, if you had listened to, and acted on/or did, every thought that crossed your mind. Where????

Next, realize that we pick and chose what thoughts that are thrown at us to think on. (by the way, is your nose itching) We chose to ignore some, and we chose to think about others. Now, recognize that our brain is doing its job, it is using everything that it has experienced, saw, read about, soaked in, or fears, and wants to use this information to predict the future to protect you. It is always trying to manage pain(emotional) and keep you physically safe from your environment, as well as those around you. Do not judge your thoughts as either good or bad, your brain is doing what it perceives as its job. Sadly, most of what it is throwing are balls of shit at your barn wall. Do not pick up the shit ball, it sticks to you. In a different way of looking at it, think of your thoughts like a comic word bubble, or shall we call it word balloon. As these balloon thoughts float by, recognize them as just thoughts, your brain is doing its job. Now, that balloon has a string attached, and when we start latching onto the string, or thought bubble, it sticks to us. (Is your nose itching?) It is like it has Velcro attached or like a spider web, the harder you fight the thought, the more it strings around and attaches to you. Fuck, it is hard to wipe a spider web off, it sticks. This is what happens when we focus on a thought. It sticks to us, and our mind really does not want to let it go. It keeps going back and mulling it over... don't grab the string/spider web/shit ball. Recognize your brain is just working over time.

Okay, I saw that you were joining AA, good stuff. Do not be afraid of talking to someone. I would recommend someone skilled in Acceptance Commitment Therapy(ACT) or Cognitive Behavioral Therapy (CBT). Both are really good, I prefer ACT myself. It has you looking at living in the moment, which is all that really matters. You cannot change yesterday, odds are against you predicting tomorrow accurately. So, did you touch your nose? Mindfulness applies to both, look it up and learn diaphragmatic deep breathing. If someone like me can do this, truly, someone like you can too... PM me anytime you would like, I know it is not easy, but life is not easy. Getting sober and clean will be one of the hardest things you have ever done, but it is more than worth it!!! I have to say, being clean and sober is the most rewarding thing that I have ever done. As someone who has been there, YOU can do this...

[FLLipOut]

So I'm coming to do what I never wanted to do, but in hindsight, I should have expected it. I did not do all I needed to do to stay clean. I'm admitting right off the top that I am a fool and I make no excuses. I just looked back at my last post on my intro and don't even remember writing it. But it is as poignant now as it was then; probably moreso. It's basically about "when does the happiness come" from quitting dip. For me, however, it was never just dip. I came here a three way addict with a depression kicker. Depression won. Alcohol won. Nicotine won. I failed you guys, my wife and family, and myself. The intro title of somebody here who I think very highly of says, "I'm Back: I'm Dumb." Sums it up pretty freaking well, I think. I'm very dumb.

Before I get to my three questions (as best I remember them), I want you guys to read a quote from As Bill Sees It, which is basically an alcoholics guide for life filled with quotes from AA's founder. I want you to remember it while you read my words for two reasons: 1) I've fought against AA for literally years, but now I see as I have no other choice. 2) What he says in this quote has never happened to me, and it's probably because my relationship with God is essentially "I know he exists because nothing would make sense if somebody's not responsible." But I have no real relationship with God. This quote says absolutely nothing about having a relationship with God, but it also says everything about it. This quote has stayed with me for days and I can't get past it. Here it is:

"It has often been said of AA that we are interested only in alcoholism. That is not true. We have to get over drinking in order to stay alive. But anyone who knows the alcoholic personality by firsthand contact knows that no true alky ever stops drinking permanently without undergoing a profound personality change."

My personality change never happened, I think, because I expected some unicorn of spirituality to ride in and save me from all the demons that I'm too weak to defeat alone as soon as I quit drinking and dipping. It doesn't happen that way. I know that now. Parputt tried to convince me I needed AA. He even said he loved the AA life. I never understood that because I never convinced myself that being sober forever held any amount of happiness in it. All of you have tried to convince me, though most not directly, that this site works if you drink the Kool-Aid and do as prescribed. I didn't . I posted whenever the heck I wanted to, I didn't get involved. For that, I'm sorry. My failure is completely on me. It is for me to live with and grow from. And I will. I am joining my brother-in-law's AA home group tonight and a local beginners meeting later this week because I'd love to begin this journey with others like me.

As for my involvement here, I'm not going anywhere. It is grossly apparent now that I need all the help and support I can get. I haven't looked to see what group I'm in now, but I'm going to post early daily and I'm going to get involved as much as I can with my added AA commitment and a renewed vow to my wife and family. There's always been something on this site that I've seen when people cave but I've never understood. When I finally made the decision to cave, I didn't want to call one of you for help. I didn't want any kind of help whatsoever. I didn't want anybody to yell at me or try to convince me not to do it. I guess all that proves is that addiction mixed with depression is bad and that I was never fully committed to this site or to the guys who have supported me thus far. For that, I hope you guys will see the contrition in my words and allow me a second chance.

I think I've hit on most of the three questions in some form, but allow me to tell a story so that you can see what my rock bottom looked like. I want it on my intro forever and ever so that I can see what an awful creature my family somehow loves.

I haven't allowed myself any cash since I came here nearly three months ago. All of our accounts are joint, so my wife would see if I bought anything, and I always brought receipts home. I was doing my damnedest to earn her trust, even if I felt like a child while doing it. It was protecting me from me. But depression got worse. I strayed farther away from here. I didn't listen to Parputt or myself and get my ass to AA. Because I couldn't use my own checking account and I couldn't tell my wife how badly I needed to cheat, cave, give up, whatever the word is, I ended up stealing from my parents and - this is rock bottom - my own twelve year old daughter. I had to get the cash to get the beer and dip because I didn't know how to find happiness and contentment without them. I still don't, but that kind of rock bottom will make you seek it in ways you never wanted to. Sitting down with your daughter and seeing the hurt and confusion in her eyes that daddy stole from me was probably the most humbling moment in my life.

I'm on day three. Some of you have supported me from the beginning and I am sorry I failed you. I won't do that again, but like I told my wife, I'd rather you not believe me. I need to prove it to all of you, but mostly I'm well aware that I need to prove it to myself. If some of you feel the need to bash me for caving even after reading this, fine. I might ignore it, but you're free to do it. If you guys that supported me don't want to anymore, I deserve that, too. But I hope you guys will give me a second chance and hold me accountable for drinking the KTC Kool-Aid. I believe you all that this place works if you do as prescribed. I believe Parputt that the AA life is good. I've seen what rock bottom looks like now. Anything, even if true happiness and contentment is never reached, is better than telling your daughter you stole from her to do the very thing that makes her cry.

That took some personal courage to come in here and write that open, honest assessment of the person you were (operative word is WERE). You can change, you CAN beat this (these?) addiction(s). We can help, but only if you stick close to the site, build that net of accountability, and be willing to accept the responsibility that comes with being a part of this forum. Glad you came back; not everyone does. This time, let's make it stick, okay? You got my numbers; use them.

Listen to ^^^this guy ^^^ - he speaks the truth and he is someone you want to have on your side. It did take a lot of guts to come clean the way you did.

You said you never convinced yourself that being sober forever held any amount of happiness in it. And I thought to myself, that is a perfect example as to why we say to only quit one day at a time. It is too easy to believe that the emptiness, the gaping hole you feel is going to be with you forever. It won't be. One day you just realize that things aren't as hard as it used to be. It is a very subtle process and it takes time. All those addictive substances have done a serious job on your physically and for a long time. But just imagine how great it is going to be to reclaim your life without that poison controlling you!! I wish for you that freedom.

I see you have posted a day 3 in September. What great news! I recommend you not only WUPP every day - but that you step up and take a leadership in the month. Take command of the SSOA, track down the missing, stir things up a little. Give out your digits to your September brothers and sisters. Dig that quit hole that Wildirish always talks about.

You can do this.

You have my digits if you need anything.

[scottludwig]

It's important to understand how addiction and depression go hand in hand. I believe that using addicts are filling a void to compensate for emptiness somewhere else in their life. One of mine was my job. I hated it for close to 10 years. I now have a new job and realistically that was when I really was able to overcome the emptiness of not using. This isn't just about quitting nicotine for most of us. We find other parts of our life that need to be looked at. You my friend took on a very big challenge and needed more support and accountability to overcome the hardships of quitting. Believe that you will overcome the emptiness, you will persevere, it will continue to test you everyday, but if you use your support and web of accountability it will keep you strong enough to stay quit one day at a time.

[CavMan83]

So I'm coming to do what I never wanted to do, but in hindsight, I should have expected it. I did not do all I needed to do to stay clean. I'm admitting right off the top that I am a fool and I make no excuses. I just looked back at my last post on my intro and don't even remember writing it. But it is as poignant now as it was then; probably moreso. It's basically about "when does the happiness come" from quitting dip. For me, however, it was never just dip. I came here a three way addict with a depression kicker. Depression won. Alcohol won. Nicotine won. I failed you guys, my wife and family, and myself. The intro title of somebody here who I think very highly of says, "I'm Back: I'm Dumb." Sums it up pretty freaking well, I think. I'm very dumb.

Before I get to my three questions (as best I remember them), I want you guys to read a quote from As Bill Sees It, which is basically an alcoholics guide for life filled with quotes from AA's founder. I want you to remember it while you read my words for two reasons: 1) I've fought against AA for literally years, but now I see as I have no other choice. 2) What he says in this quote has never happened to me, and it's probably because my relationship with God is essentially "I know he exists because nothing would make sense if somebody's not responsible." But I have no real relationship with God. This quote says absolutely nothing about having a relationship with God, but it also says everything about it. This quote has stayed with me for days and I can't get past it. Here it is:

"It has often been said of AA that we are interested only in alcoholism. That is not true. We have to get over drinking in order to stay alive. But anyone who knows the alcoholic personality by firsthand contact knows that no true alky ever stops drinking permanently without undergoing a profound personality change."

My personality change never happened, I think, because I expected some unicorn of spirituality to ride in and save me from all the demons that I'm too weak to defeat alone as soon as I quit drinking and dipping. It doesn't happen that way. I know that now. Parputt tried to convince me I needed AA. He even said he loved the AA life. I never understood that because I never convinced myself that being sober forever held any amount of happiness in it. All of you have tried to convince me, though most not directly, that this site works if you drink the Kool-Aid and do as prescribed. I didn't . I posted whenever the heck I wanted to, I didn't get involved. For that, I'm sorry. My failure is completely on me. It is for me to live with and grow from. And I will. I am joining my brother-in-law's AA home group tonight and a local beginners meeting later this week because I'd love to begin this journey with others like me.

As for my involvement here, I'm not going anywhere. It is grossly apparent now that I need all the help and support I can get. I haven't looked to see what group I'm in now, but I'm going to post early daily and I'm going to get involved as much as I can with my added AA commitment and a renewed vow to my wife and family. There's always been something on this site that I've seen when people cave but I've never understood. When I finally made the decision to cave, I didn't want to call one of you for help. I didn't want any kind of help whatsoever. I didn't want anybody to yell at me or try to convince me not to do it. I guess all that proves is that addiction mixed with depression is bad and that I was never fully committed to this site or to the guys who have supported me thus far. For that, I hope you guys will see the contrition in my words and allow me a second chance.

I think I've hit on most of the three questions in some form, but allow me to tell a story so that you can see what my rock bottom looked like. I want it on my intro forever and ever so that I can see what an awful creature my family somehow loves.

I haven't allowed myself any cash since I came here nearly three months ago. All of our accounts are joint, so my wife would see if I bought anything, and I always brought receipts home. I was doing my damnedest to earn her trust, even if I felt like a child while doing it. It was protecting me from me. But depression got worse. I strayed farther away from here. I didn't listen to Parputt or myself and get my ass to AA. Because I couldn't use my own checking account and I couldn't tell my wife how badly I needed to cheat, cave, give up, whatever the word is, I ended up stealing from my parents and - this is rock bottom - my own twelve year old daughter. I had to get the cash to get the beer and dip because I didn't know how to find happiness and contentment without them. I still don't, but that kind of rock bottom will make you seek it in ways you never wanted to. Sitting down with your daughter and seeing the hurt and confusion in her eyes that daddy stole from me was probably the most humbling moment in my life.

I'm on day three. Some of you have supported me from the beginning and I am sorry I failed you. I won't do that again, but like I told my wife, I'd rather you not believe me. I need to prove it to all of you, but mostly I'm well aware that I need to prove it to myself. If some of you feel the need to bash me for caving even after reading this, fine. I might ignore it, but you're free to do it. If you guys that supported me don't want to anymore, I deserve that, too. But I hope you guys will give me a second chance and hold me accountable for drinking the KTC Kool-Aid. I believe you all that this place works if you do as prescribed. I believe Parputt that the AA life is good. I've seen what rock bottom looks like now. Anything, even if true happiness and contentment is never reached, is better than telling your daughter you stole from her to do the very thing that makes her cry.

That took some personal courage to come in here and write that open, honest assessment of the person you were (operative word is WERE). You can change, you CAN beat this (these?) addiction(s). We can help, but only if you stick close to the site, build that net of accountability, and be willing to accept the responsibility that comes with being a part of this forum. Glad you came back; not everyone does. This time, let's make it stick, okay? You got my numbers; use them.

[PhuctUp]

So I'm coming to do what I never wanted to do, but in hindsight, I should have expected it. I did not do all I needed to do to stay clean. I'm admitting right off the top that I am a fool and I make no excuses. I just looked back at my last post on my intro and don't even remember writing it. But it is as poignant now as it was then; probably moreso. It's basically about "when does the happiness come" from quitting dip. For me, however, it was never just dip. I came here a three way addict with a depression kicker. Depression won. Alcohol won. Nicotine won. I failed you guys, my wife and family, and myself. The intro title of somebody here who I think very highly of says, "I'm Back: I'm Dumb." Sums it up pretty freaking well, I think. I'm very dumb.

Before I get to my three questions (as best I remember them), I want you guys to read a quote from As Bill Sees It, which is basically an alcoholics guide for life filled with quotes from AA's founder. I want you to remember it while you read my words for two reasons: 1) I've fought against AA for literally years, but now I see as I have no other choice. 2) What he says in this quote has never happened to me, and it's probably because my relationship with God is essentially "I know he exists because nothing would make sense if somebody's not responsible." But I have no real relationship with God. This quote says absolutely nothing about having a relationship with God, but it also says everything about it. This quote has stayed with me for days and I can't get past it. Here it is:

"It has often been said of AA that we are interested only in alcoholism. That is not true. We have to get over drinking in order to stay alive. But anyone who knows the alcoholic personality by firsthand contact knows that no true alky ever stops drinking permanently without undergoing a profound personality change."

My personality change never happened, I think, because I expected some unicorn of spirituality to ride in and save me from all the demons that I'm too weak to defeat alone as soon as I quit drinking and dipping. It doesn't happen that way. I know that now. Parputt tried to convince me I needed AA. He even said he loved the AA life. I never understood that because I never convinced myself that being sober forever held any amount of happiness in it. All of you have tried to convince me, though most not directly, that this site works if you drink the Kool-Aid and do as prescribed. I didn't . I posted whenever the heck I wanted to, I didn't get involved. For that, I'm sorry. My failure is completely on me. It is for me to live with and grow from. And I will. I am joining my brother-in-law's AA home group tonight and a local beginners meeting later this week because I'd love to begin this journey with others like me.

As for my involvement here, I'm not going anywhere. It is grossly apparent now that I need all the help and support I can get. I haven't looked to see what group I'm in now, but I'm going to post early daily and I'm going to get involved as much as I can with my added AA commitment and a renewed vow to my wife and family. There's always been something on this site that I've seen when people cave but I've never understood. When I finally made the decision to cave, I didn't want to call one of you for help. I didn't want any kind of help whatsoever. I didn't want anybody to yell at me or try to convince me not to do it. I guess all that proves is that addiction mixed with depression is bad and that I was never fully committed to this site or to the guys who have supported me thus far. For that, I hope you guys will see the contrition in my words and allow me a second chance.

I think I've hit on most of the three questions in some form, but allow me to tell a story so that you can see what my rock bottom looked like. I want it on my intro forever and ever so that I can see what an awful creature my family somehow loves.

I haven't allowed myself any cash since I came here nearly three months ago. All of our accounts are joint, so my wife would see if I bought anything, and I always brought receipts home. I was doing my damnedest to earn her trust, even if I felt like a child while doing it. It was protecting me from me. But depression got worse. I strayed farther away from here. I didn't listen to Parputt or myself and get my ass to AA. Because I couldn't use my own checking account and I couldn't tell my wife how badly I needed to cheat, cave, give up, whatever the word is, I ended up stealing from my parents and - this is rock bottom - my own twelve year old daughter. I had to get the cash to get the beer and dip because I didn't know how to find happiness and contentment without them. I still don't, but that kind of rock bottom will make you seek it in ways you never wanted to. Sitting down with your daughter and seeing the hurt and confusion in her eyes that daddy stole from me was probably the most humbling moment in my life.

I'm on day three. Some of you have supported me from the beginning and I am sorry I failed you. I won't do that again, but like I told my wife, I'd rather you not believe me. I need to prove it to all of you, but mostly I'm well aware that I need to prove it to myself. If some of you feel the need to bash me for caving even after reading this, fine. I might ignore it, but you're free to do it. If you guys that supported me don't want to anymore, I deserve that, too. But I hope you guys will give me a second chance and hold me accountable for drinking the KTC Kool-Aid. I believe you all that this place works if you do as prescribed. I believe Parputt that the AA life is good. I've seen what rock bottom looks like now. Anything, even if true happiness and contentment is never reached, is better than telling your daughter you stole from her to do the very thing that makes her cry.

[CavMan83]

'party' Congrats on 50! Half a HOF! 'party'

Whut she sed!!! Good on ya, bubba!

[FLLipOut]

'party' Congrats on 50! Half a HOF! 'party'

[PhuctUp]

Sometimes on this damn website you just read things you needed to read. Supplehands wrote something on the June quit group yesterday and I have been needing it. Not sure why exactly it struck a chord with me (it wasn't even directed at me,) but I wanted to include it on my intro if you don't mind too terribly, Supple. Here's what he wrote:

"I will say this considering we are all at different stages in our quit but we are all just as close to starting over if we make a mistake. Early in my quit I had a profound emptiness. I didn't get super angry. All my other problems seemed relatively managable, but I just had this yawning chasm of a void on a daily basis. Ive said this before, but at the time, I was scared that feeling would last the rest of my life, because I had no tangible proof I would feel any other way.

The members of KTC would tell me to hang in there/those feelings are temporary/it gets better... but it wasn't always very easy to keep that faith.

At this stage in my quit, though, I can say that my brain in no way, shape, or form has any shred of longing, emptiness, or despair as it relates to nicotine. I can be around it and not want it. I can drink and not want it. I can engage in trigger behavior and there is no danger mentally. My feeling (any type of mental need for nicotine) is basically completely gone.

I stay with KTC because I want to remind myself of the struggle, not because I continue TO struggle. I want to lend a hand to others. I want to send that message of faith that others gave me. The price of my current level of extreme freedom is that I must always remain vigilant and guard against complacency.

The message is this: that life partner that you gave up, will one day be viewed as nothing more than a sinister charade of companionship, crowding out genuine relationships and happiness as long as you were entertaining the perpetual scam that is nicotine addiction."

[Thumblewort]

I was in the 130 ish day range when I went back to normal and started talking about the heads in my freezer instead of "I quit with you today".

I quit with you today PhuctUp!