T minus one day

[kevinsravens]

you do realize this is a nicotine cessation site don't you?.......

I was under the impression that it was a site for quitting chewing tobacco. Maybe the whole "kill the can: a resource to quit dip, snuff, and chewing tobacco" name mislead me into thinking that.

And I have quit chewing. Of course I'm also weaning off the nic gum as I planned, but frankly I don't even care about that. It's a secondary goal, just as many here probably have to wean off that fake snuff crap that they use to continue all the parts of their chew addiction except the nicotine.

As I said, if someone goes back to chewing because of ignorant assholes at this site, that says as much about them as it does about people here. But don't let that salve your conscience: If you are telling people that cold turkey is the only way for anyone to quit chewing, that NRT isn't a real quit, then your are spreading pernicious misinformation.

Quitnow
Proud to be 44 days off the dip
One day at a time

didn't say that at all. re-read my posts.....and while our name is "Kill The Can"....this site is about addiction to nicotine.....period.

I ingested nicotine in one form or another for almost 30 years.......and i have done so with every delivery system.....never cared for smoking but would do so to keep from dipping....was i quit? no...i was just taking the bus to the same destination. I've tried the patch, gum and lozenges.....and while i may not have been packing cope in my lip.....i was just taking a plane, taxi or train to the same destination.......feeding my nicotine habit.

I will state again....


If you are using the nrt on a regimented schedule......it is one way to quit.....my definition of "regimented schedule" is based on a time of day delivery NOT "i'm jonesin and cravin so let me pop a piece of nicorette".

If it works for you great....thrilled your quit by your definition. I just disagree with changing delivery systems and calling yourself quit based on our site's goal of assisting people in their nicotine addiction battle.

If you think this site is about just "not dipping"....you really need to spend some more time reading and less time trying to find a "round-about" way to justify your program both to yourself and me........

maybe this site would be better suited for your needs

http://www.quitsmokeless.org/

[mule]

you do realize this is a nicotine cessation site don't you?.......

I was under the impression that it was a site for quitting chewing tobacco. Maybe the whole "kill the can: a resource to quit dip, snuff, and chewing tobacco" name mislead me into thinking that.

And I have quit chewing. Of course I'm also weaning off the nic gum as I planned, but frankly I don't even care about that. It's a secondary goal, just as many here probably have to wean off that fake snuff crap that they use to continue all the parts of their chew addiction except the nicotine.

As I said, if someone goes back to chewing because of ignorant assholes at this site, that says as much about them as it does about people here. But don't let that salve your conscience: If you are telling people that cold turkey is the only way for anyone to quit chewing, that NRT isn't a real quit, then your are spreading pernicious misinformation.

Quitnow
Proud to be 44 days off the dip
One day at a time

didn't say that at all. re-read my posts.....and while our name is "Kill The Can"....this site is about addiction to nicotine.....period.

I ingested nicotine in one form or another for almost 30 years.......and i have done so with every delivery system.....never cared for smoking but would do so to keep from dipping....was i quit? no...i was just taking the bus to the same destination. I've tried the patch, gum and lozenges.....and while i may not have been packing cope in my lip.....i was just taking a plane, taxi or train to the same destination.......feeding my nicotine habit.

I will state again....


If you are using the nrt on a regimented schedule......it is one way to quit.....my definition of "regimented schedule" is based on a time of day delivery NOT "i'm jonesin and cravin so let me pop a piece of nicorette".

If it works for you great....thrilled your quit by your definition. I just disagree with changing delivery systems and calling yourself quit based on our site's goal of assisting people in their nicotine addiction battle.

If you think this site is about just "not dipping"....you really need to spend some more time reading and less time trying to find a "round-about" way to justify your program both to yourself and me........

[Quitnow]

you do realize this is a nicotine cessation site don't you?.......

I was under the impression that it was a site for quitting chewing tobacco. Maybe the whole "kill the can: a resource to quit dip, snuff, and chewing tobacco" name mislead me into thinking that.

And I have quit chewing. Of course I'm also weaning off the nic gum as I planned, but frankly I don't even care about that. It's a secondary goal, just as many here probably have to wean off that fake snuff crap that they use to continue all the parts of their chew addiction except the nicotine.

As I said, if someone goes back to chewing because of ignorant assholes at this site, that says as much about them as it does about people here. But don't let that salve your conscience: If you are telling people that cold turkey is the only way for anyone to quit chewing, that NRT isn't a real quit, then your are spreading pernicious misinformation.

As I said, don't take my word for it. Look up the statistics on this in the medical journals at pubmed, you will see that NRT users are more successful at staying off the cat turds. Of course at this site there will be a selection effect: because you belittle people that would use NRT, nobody at this site uses NRT, so of course you see the experienced members and such saying how NRT is bullshit. That doesn't mean anything. That's like saying prayer helps alcoholism because the oldtimers at AA all pray.

For those that like to use their experience as an argument for everyone, I can say I've quit cold turkey before, and obviously it didn't work. I did it many times. This time I used NRT and it worked. I have stopped the chew. Therefore, obviously cold turkey doesn't work and everyone should use NRT.

Silly argument, eh?

Quitnow
Proud to be 44 days off the dip
One day at a time

[BigDippa]

I've been quit for a little over two weeks now, and I did it cold turkey. I have tried to quit in the past several times using patches, pills, and gum. Each time I relapsed after a week. While there are other HABITS associated with dipping, the ADDICTION is to the nicotine. The first 3 days suck dude. After that, it gets better. No one is saying you can't quit with NRTs, but I can tell you from experience that it is easier to relapse if you go that route.

[CopeFiend]

And just to be clear quitnow, nobody here on this site is putting lip turds into other people's mouths. Heaven forbid that someone dies from dipping, but if they do, they can look to their own hand as it was stuffing it in that lip.

[mule]

One person's bullshit is another's fertilizer, I guess. Some people chew that fake dip, and I look at that as odd and suspect and continuing many aspects of the addiction. But many here seem to look at that as OK. I, on the other hand, am doing the opposite. They get rid of the nicotine but nothing else. I get rid of everything but the nicotine.




you do realize this is a nicotine cessation site don't you?.......

[Quitnow]

I have seen in my own life that it was really easy to use the argument that "this is ok, because it is not chew...."  and extend anticipated cutback and cessation dates.

gotta call Bullshit on that argument.....again, you are still under the control of your addiction to nicotine instead of empowering yourself to truly quit.

One person's bullshit is another's fertilizer, I guess. Some people chew that fake dip, and I look at that as odd and suspect and continuing many aspects of the addiction. But many here seem to look at that as OK. I, on the other hand, am doing the opposite. They get rid of the nicotine but nothing else. I get rid of everything but the nicotine.

My sole goal was to get off the dip. I needed to for serious health reasons, urgently. I didn't care if I had to use the gum for the rest of my life (the health problems that come with using the gum are real, but dwarfed by the actual dip).

Luckily I hooked up with a good group, and a therapist dude, who have been very helpful. Without them I couldn't have quit the dip.

They convinced me, before I quit, to stage down my gum use. I think this is a perfectly reasonable and good thing to do, and I am doing it (my new addiction is normal gum, I'm chewing it all the fucking time). Frankly, I haven't really had to try to stop using the gum. It's happened naturally I just use less and chew more regular gum.

There are a million ways to quit. Regardless of anecdotes, if you look at evidence based on hundreds of people in double-blind research trials (in which neither the researcher nor the subject knows if they have the NRT or placebo), there is an unequivocal benefit (defined as quitting for 12 months) in using NRT compared to placebo.

Groups like this also help. I'm combining them and have had great success, by my definition.

Obviously our definitions differ, but for people here to shoehorn me into their narrow picture of quitting, and judge me negatively based on that myopia, is what I would call bullshit on.

A'ight enough for me for now. I hope nobody dies because there are assholes here. My hunch is many people will LIVE because of the assholes here. Hopefully more in the latter group than the former. Hell, AA works and it is full of incredibly dogmatic assholes and is underwritten by a kooky program of steps and such, and it manages to help people.

Plus, if someone were to use people here as an excuse to not quit, then they may not be ready to quit. I didn't let you fuckers stop me, I found other resources where people were more reasonable, and I knew such resources had to exist as as I knew I was being perfectly reasonable in my approach. :)

[Quitnow]

Cut this post I accidentally replicated it.

[mule]

My motivation was to tell you that by telling people using NRT isn't really quitting could be sending newbies back out there, that it is not only untrue but positively harmful.

Here's an example research paper: "All of the commercially available forms of NRT (gum, transdermal patch, nasal spray, inhaler and sublingual tablets/lozenges) can help people who make a quit attempt to increase their chances of successfully stopping smoking. NRTs increase the rate of quitting by 50-70%, regardless of setting. "

Reference:
http://mrw.interscience.wiley.com/cochr ... frame.html

The data are clear on this. People who use NRT are much more likely to quit. Period.

To tell people they aren't really quit if they use NRT, when in fact NRT has been shown to make them much more likely to quit in the long run, is not an innocuous innacuracy. At a site like this the so-called "oldtimers" should know the facts, not just spit out dogma based on some of their personal anecdotes.

At any rate, good luck to you all. I would hope you would wish me well in my own recovery from the horrible cat turds I put in my mouth.

I have a group I go to, and couldn't have done this without them.

Again, not here to start a war and I apologize for coming off a bit too strong, but it really concerns me that you may be sending people back out there to die.

Best of luck to you....based on the experience of myself and a large number of quitters i have met on this site, my own research is that NRT's have not resulted in very many successful quits WITHOUT a very defined ingestion regime and strictly adhered to reduction dates.

My point in taking time to respond to you was if you are using NRT's on demand in direct response to a crave....you are just feeding your nicotine addiction via a new delivery system. I have seen in my own life that it was really easy to use the argument that "this is ok, because it is not chew...." and extend anticipated cutback and cessation dates.

gotta call Bullshit on that argument.....again, you are still under the control of your addiction to nicotine instead of empowering yourself to truly quit.

[Quitnow]

My motivation was to tell you that by telling people using NRT isn't really quitting could be sending newbies back out there, that it is not only untrue but positively harmful.

Here's an example research paper: "All of the commercially available forms of NRT (gum, transdermal patch, nasal spray, inhaler and sublingual tablets/lozenges) can help people who make a quit attempt to increase their chances of successfully stopping smoking. NRTs increase the rate of quitting by 50-70%, regardless of setting. "

Reference:
http://mrw.interscience.wiley.com/cochr ... frame.html

The data are clear on this. People who use NRT are much more likely to quit. Period.

To tell people they aren't really quit if they use NRT, when in fact NRT has been shown to make them much more likely to quit in the long run, is not an innocuous innacuracy. At a site like this the so-called "oldtimers" should know the facts, not just spit out dogma based on some of their personal anecdotes.

At any rate, good luck to you all. I would hope you would wish me well in my own recovery from the horrible cat turds I put in my mouth.

I have a group I go to, and couldn't have done this without them.

Again, not here to start a war and I apologize for coming off a bit too strong, but it really concerns me that you may be sending people back out there to die.

[CopeFiend]

Hey quitnow....what is your motivation for coming in here today and telling us all of this?

I tried NRT by the plan. It just didn't work for me. So, rather than dip (hey, at least I wasn't dipping...), I decided to use it as a crutch. I kept using it for almost 2 years. What did NRT do for me? It made it that much easier to switch back to the real thing (dip) when a period of heavy stress hit me. And that happened. So, I was back to the can-o-day of Cope. Then, I started NRT again back on Sept 5. I found KTC at the end of Sept. I caught shit for the NRT. So, I went cold turkey. Well, that worked for me.

I think that as long as we have nicotine in our systems, it just draws out the agony. There is no magic pill or gum that takes away the suck. You will feel the suck during your first 3 non-nicotine days after quitting NRT just as much as you would going off dip straight out. The suck is the suck....and it's going to suck.

So, quit being a wimp and throw that gum or whatever you're using into the trash. Why suffer and pay money for something that isn't going to help you? You're going to feel like crap the first 3 days after quitting it anyway. Then, you have the same cycle of quit funks that anyone has after that. I still have craves, and I've been off nicotine and tobacco for 145 days.

This site helps not only in the beginning (where you are at), but it also helps way on down the road. I'm still in the early part of the road, but I got some quitters up in front of me that I talk to each day that tell me what the traffic is like further on down that road.

You can come in here and talk at us, you you can come in here and quit with us. It's your choice. We'll be here tomorrow.

[Quitnow]

You are addicted to Nicotine....no matter how you ingest it into your body, until you are nicotine free...you are not quit.......The ONLY way a NRT is ok in my mind is with a non-compromising cessation program based on time of day...not as a response to craves along with an identified and non-negotiable total cessation date.

If this post pisses you off.....you may want to ask yourself if the guilt of realizing you are still feeding your addiction isn't a primary contributing factor.   

I will be glad to help you quit any way i can......when you quit.

I have quit chewing, my primary goal. Just to clarify the semantics of the English language for those of you that need help with elementary logic: if I chewed ten pieces of nic gum a day, I would still have quit dipping. That I chew about a quarter of a piece of gum twice a day isn't important to me frankly, and I am on plan.

That you would try to use what I said on day 1 so literally and inflexibly in a kind of "gotcha" way is not surprising. Rather than congratulate me on my accomplishment, you try to demean me and play little games with my words. To spell out my plan more: At day 30 I cut the gum in half, then a week later cut it in half again, and in two weeks the plan is to cut it out.

If it works for you to not use the NRT, that is great, but to act like yours is the only way, that people like me doing something different haven't accomplished something, that we haven't actually quit chewing? That is myopic, factually incorrect, judgmental, arrogant, and frankly I would find it laughable if it didn't put people's lives at risk that come to this site looking for the full suite of options open to them.

As I said, if you look at the science (rather than anecdotes and dogma), you will see that people who use NRT have a 50% better permanent quit rate (that means off the NRT) than people who use nothing.

However, your site is your site, and if you want to be like the creationists of quitting chewing tobacco, then that is your right. I am only a little surprised to get defensive, belittling, and touchy reactions here, very much the opposite I expect from people in recovery. But I guess you are rounding up the wagons so it's to be expected.

I'm sure you'll be able to pacify each other against my lone voice that you are in the right, that I am somehow deluded, you can continue to belittle what I have accomplished and tell me to post day 1. Have fun with that, I hope it makes you feel self actualized and manly.

Good luck staying off the dip, and I pray that nobody dies of oral cancer because they got preachy dogmatic arrogance from coming here.

At any rate, anyone out there reading this : know that there is more than one way, there is not only one way to quit. Talk to therapists, doctors, and other people online if you want a more synoptic, balanced, and objective perspective. The world is bigger than people here seem to realize. Don't take my word for it, do some research.

Best,
Quitnow
Proud to be 43 Days Free of the Dip
May God help us see the truth, whatever that may be.

[mule]

On January 17th you wrote......

At any rate, that's my plan, and if it is incompatible with joining one of the groups then I may come back in a month when I quit the gum (and I am under no illusions that will be trivial, even with all the chew-specific contextual aspects gone).




Today you wrote......


I'm almost weaned off the nicotine gum, too, as per my whole quit schedule.





43 day month hmmmmm? This is the problem i have with NRT's....first of all, personally, i have tried them all and none of them worked for me.....not to say it will not work for you or anyone else...but by your own admission you implicated yourself in utilizing this delivery system.....you moved your original plan by convincing yourself that WOW....i'm doing really well on this and at least it isn't dip and therefore a lot better for me...i will extend my use of this product for just a little while longer.....

You are addicted to Nicotine....no matter how you ingest it into your body, until you are nicotine free...you are not quit.......The ONLY way a NRT is ok in my mind is with a non-compromising cessation program based on time of day...not as a response to craves along with an identified and non-negotiable total cessation date.

From what you've said yourself......you would post a day 1 on our site....

If this post pisses you off.....you may want to ask yourself if the guilt of realizing you are still feeding your addiction isn't a primary contributing factor.

I will be glad to help you quit any way i can......when you quit.

[kevinsravens]

Just to say hi and I'm 43 days free of flavored cat shit in my mouth.

I'm almost weaned off the nicotine gum, too, as per my whole quit schedule.

For future reference: someone querying whether they can post in the quit groups here while using NRT you should tell them it is up to them, don't be jackass dogmatic fucks. The very first impression a newbie gets of this group could be life or death for that person.

If you look at the actual literature the NRT helps (on average), so I can't understand why anyone would discourage it. This is a site for quitting the chew isn't it?

As I said below:

There are all the habits that go along with the Skoal--the rush of buying a can. Busting open the can and putting in the dip. The spitting (gross, but I have come to like that for some reason). All the secondary crap that I am so attached to. Rather than give up all at the same time as the nicotine I want to get rid of those secondary habits and create a life context without them, but still with the nicotine monster on my back that I can give up independently.

That nailed it. I couldn't say it better today.

Slug, your response was simply the wrong thing to say to a newbie. Not only was it factually incorrect, but its dogmatic inflexibility is an attitude that does not characterize recovery but childishness.

Thank god there are other resources I was able to use as I don't think I could have done it without a good support network.

I'm free of chew for 43 days, so obviously it has worked. If you knew me you'd know 43 days is something of a miracle, is saving my life. If you would disparage that because I initially kept some nicotine in my system, I would simply have to tell you to kindly fuck off.

A day at a time. I'm still struggling periodically with the urges, but overall things have evened out and my life is just better without the shit in my mouth.

And remember:
A hundred days is good. Today is better.

:)

OK, that's out of my system. I hope you handle these types of issues better in the future ya'll.

Congrats on lowering your nicotene intake. Come on back and post a day one when you are ready to leave your crutch behind.

We will support and embrace you when you are quit.


Quit = No Nicotene

You have essentially wasted 43 days because your still at day 0 in my book.

Again I wish you the best in conquering this addiction, but I dont agree that NRT is a viable solution.

So come back next time when your clean and post a day 1.

[Quitnow]

Just to say hi and I'm 43 days free of flavored cat shit in my mouth.

I'm almost weaned off the nicotine gum, too, as per my whole quit schedule.

For future reference: someone querying whether they can post in the quit groups here while using NRT you should tell them it is up to them, don't be jackass dogmatic fucks. The very first impression a newbie gets of this group could be life or death for that person.

If you look at the actual literature the NRT helps (on average), so I can't understand why anyone would discourage it. This is a site for quitting the chew isn't it?

As I said below:

There are all the habits that go along with the Skoal--the rush of buying a can. Busting open the can and putting in the dip. The spitting (gross, but I have come to like that for some reason). All the secondary crap that I am so attached to. Rather than give up all at the same time as the nicotine I want to get rid of those secondary habits and create a life context without them, but still with the nicotine monster on my back that I can give up independently.

That nailed it. I couldn't say it better today.

Slug, your response was simply the wrong thing to say to a newbie. Not only was it factually incorrect, but its dogmatic inflexibility is an attitude that does not characterize recovery but childishness.

Thank god there are other resources I was able to use as I don't think I could have done it without a good support network.

I'm free of chew for 43 days, so obviously it has worked. If you knew me you'd know 43 days is something of a miracle, is saving my life. If you would disparage that because I initially kept some nicotine in my system, I would simply have to tell you to kindly fuck off.

A day at a time. I'm still struggling periodically with the urges, but overall things have evened out and my life is just better without the shit in my mouth.

And remember:
A hundred days is good. Today is better.

:)

OK, that's out of my system. I hope you handle these types of issues better in the future ya'll.