My good cave

[SirDerek]

After 500 days I went to an addiction recovery meeting last night.  It was a general addiction meeting based on AA 12 step.  As I sat in the meeting surrounded by a drug dealing addict, alcoholics and those with eating disorders I caught myself comparing one addiction to another.  Is my addiction less offensive because its legal?  Is their addiction less understandable, because they are so foolish for not recognizing how stupid their actions are?  Dammit, how can I be so damn stupid!  Haven't I learned anything over the past year!  I am exactly like every other addict out there, a slave to an action or substance.  Are some addictions easier to gain control of? Well, hell yes!  My addiction is nicotine and I'd find making myself puck really easy to overcome but the addict with a eating disorder has every bit as difficult time controlling their actions as I have had.  We each have our own individual weaknesses and strengths.  I still can't believe how I sat there and had those judgmental thoughts about another's addiction.  After thinking about it all day I've come to the conclusion that my addicted mind that has been trying to drag me back towards slavery on a regular basis found a way to minimize my addiction by making those other addicts addiction seem so much worse than my own.  That is complete bullshit, for me I am a recovering alcoholic of 33+ years and a recovering nicotine addict of 500+ days and my addictions are mine (they are MY weaknesses).  Who am I to judge another.   I still can't believe I (a dumb ass that use to suck on ground up rotten stinking weeds with brown drool running out the corners of his mouth) judged my addiction less offensive than someone else's. 'bang head'  'bang head'

An addict is an addict!

I love you bro!

Amen WT57. I also must sonstantly remind myself.

Ditto ^^

(They are MY weaknesses)? NO my friend.. They are your strengths!
There is a very small group of people that could do what we're doing. Most folk have no clue as to the strength it takes to say enough is enough. To actually make it happen. You need to stop punishing yourself, you're not perfect, I'm not perfect, but at least we have the will, and determination to make a change. MOST people take the easy way out, admit defeat, and die unhappy..
One of my largest hurdles so far was excepting the fact that I'm not perfect, that I'm allowed to have faults. That addiction sucks, but life is too grand to waste one second thinking about that stupid shit. Put yourself above it, control it, accept it, and move on. I'm trying to tell you that you're much stronger than you think, and you're doing great.. Hold your head up high, you deserve it. peace

Wt -

I think you have learned more in this past year than you realize. Its the realization of being an addict that led us to being able to stay clean now for as long as we have. Without it and the brotherhood here, we probably would be back in the clutches of a can. But never again.

And as for the comparison, well guess what, welcome back to a little piece of normality as we are human and tend to always compare ourselves with others. But as mentioned, yes we initially compare, but come to that knowledge that addicts are all the same, just depends on what it is we are addicted to.

A huge congrats on the 500. Hope you take the time and celebrate as that is a big accomplishment.

And will be right there beside you today and tomorrow when I wake....

[kana]

After 500 days I went to an addiction recovery meeting last night.  It was a general addiction meeting based on AA 12 step.  As I sat in the meeting surrounded by a drug dealing addict, alcoholics and those with eating disorders I caught myself comparing one addiction to another.  Is my addiction less offensive because its legal?  Is their addiction less understandable, because they are so foolish for not recognizing how stupid their actions are?  Dammit, how can I be so damn stupid!  Haven't I learned anything over the past year!  I am exactly like every other addict out there, a slave to an action or substance.  Are some addictions easier to gain control of? Well, hell yes!  My addiction is nicotine and I'd find making myself puck really easy to overcome but the addict with a eating disorder has every bit as difficult time controlling their actions as I have had.  We each have our own individual weaknesses and strengths.  I still can't believe how I sat there and had those judgmental thoughts about another's addiction.  After thinking about it all day I've come to the conclusion that my addicted mind that has been trying to drag me back towards slavery on a regular basis found a way to minimize my addiction by making those other addicts addiction seem so much worse than my own.  That is complete bullshit, for me I am a recovering alcoholic of 33+ years and a recovering nicotine addict of 500+ days and my addictions are mine (they are MY weaknesses).  Who am I to judge another.   I still can't believe I (a dumb ass that use to suck on ground up rotten stinking weeds with brown drool running out the corners of his mouth) judged my addiction less offensive than someone else's. 'bang head'  'bang head'

An addict is an addict!

I love you bro!

Amen WT57. I also must sonstantly remind myself.

Ditto ^^

(They are MY weaknesses)? NO my friend.. They are your strengths!
There is a very small group of people that could do what we're doing. Most folk have no clue as to the strength it takes to say enough is enough. To actually make it happen. You need to stop punishing yourself, you're not perfect, I'm not perfect, but at least we have the will, and determination to make a change. MOST people take the easy way out, admit defeat, and die unhappy..
One of my largest hurdles so far was excepting the fact that I'm not perfect, that I'm allowed to have faults. That addiction sucks, but life is too grand to waste one second thinking about that stupid shit. Put yourself above it, control it, accept it, and move on. I'm trying to tell you that you're much stronger than you think, and you're doing great.. Hold your head up high, you deserve it. peace

[omahaflyer]

After 500 days I went to an addiction recovery meeting last night.  It was a general addiction meeting based on AA 12 step.  As I sat in the meeting surrounded by a drug dealing addict, alcoholics and those with eating disorders I caught myself comparing one addiction to another.  Is my addiction less offensive because its legal?  Is their addiction less understandable, because they are so foolish for not recognizing how stupid their actions are?  Dammit, how can I be so damn stupid!  Haven't I learned anything over the past year!  I am exactly like every other addict out there, a slave to an action or substance.  Are some addictions easier to gain control of? Well, hell yes!  My addiction is nicotine and I'd find making myself puck really easy to overcome but the addict with a eating disorder has every bit as difficult time controlling their actions as I have had.  We each have our own individual weaknesses and strengths.  I still can't believe how I sat there and had those judgmental thoughts about another's addiction.  After thinking about it all day I've come to the conclusion that my addicted mind that has been trying to drag me back towards slavery on a regular basis found a way to minimize my addiction by making those other addicts addiction seem so much worse than my own.  That is complete bullshit, for me I am a recovering alcoholic of 33+ years and a recovering nicotine addict of 500+ days and my addictions are mine (they are MY weaknesses).  Who am I to judge another.   I still can't believe I (a dumb ass that use to suck on ground up rotten stinking weeds with brown drool running out the corners of his mouth) judged my addiction less offensive than someone else's. 'bang head'  'bang head'

An addict is an addict!

I love you bro!

Amen WT57. I also must sonstantly remind myself.

Ditto ^^

[Its_Got2Happen]

After 500 days I went to an addiction recovery meeting last night.  It was a general addiction meeting based on AA 12 step.  As I sat in the meeting surrounded by a drug dealing addict, alcoholics and those with eating disorders I caught myself comparing one addiction to another.  Is my addiction less offensive because its legal?  Is their addiction less understandable, because they are so foolish for not recognizing how stupid their actions are?  Dammit, how can I be so damn stupid!  Haven't I learned anything over the past year!  I am exactly like every other addict out there, a slave to an action or substance.  Are some addictions easier to gain control of? Well, hell yes!  My addiction is nicotine and I'd find making myself puck really easy to overcome but the addict with a eating disorder has every bit as difficult time controlling their actions as I have had.  We each have our own individual weaknesses and strengths.  I still can't believe how I sat there and had those judgmental thoughts about another's addiction.  After thinking about it all day I've come to the conclusion that my addicted mind that has been trying to drag me back towards slavery on a regular basis found a way to minimize my addiction by making those other addicts addiction seem so much worse than my own.  That is complete bullshit, for me I am a recovering alcoholic of 33+ years and a recovering nicotine addict of 500+ days and my addictions are mine (they are MY weaknesses).  Who am I to judge another.  I still can't believe I (a dumb ass that use to suck on ground up rotten stinking weeds with brown drool running out the corners of his mouth) judged my addiction less offensive than someone else's. 'bang head'  'bang head'

An addict is an addict!

I love you bro!

Amen WT57. I also must sonstantly remind myself.

[CleanFuel]

After 500 days I went to an addiction recovery meeting last night. It was a general addiction meeting based on AA 12 step. As I sat in the meeting surrounded by a drug dealing addict, alcoholics and those with eating disorders I caught myself comparing one addiction to another. Is my addiction less offensive because its legal? Is their addiction less understandable, because they are so foolish for not recognizing how stupid their actions are? Dammit, how can I be so damn stupid! Haven't I learned anything over the past year! I am exactly like every other addict out there, a slave to an action or substance. Are some addictions easier to gain control of? Well, hell yes! My addiction is nicotine and I'd find making myself puck really easy to overcome but the addict with a eating disorder has every bit as difficult time controlling their actions as I have had. We each have our own individual weaknesses and strengths. I still can't believe how I sat there and had those judgmental thoughts about another's addiction. After thinking about it all day I've come to the conclusion that my addicted mind that has been trying to drag me back towards slavery on a regular basis found a way to minimize my addiction by making those other addicts addiction seem so much worse than my own. That is complete bullshit, for me I am a recovering alcoholic of 33+ years and a recovering nicotine addict of 500+ days and my addictions are mine (they are MY weaknesses). Who am I to judge another. I still can't believe I (a dumb ass that use to suck on ground up rotten stinking weeds with brown drool running out the corners of his mouth) judged my addiction less offensive than someone else's. 'bang head' 'bang head'

An addict is an addict!

I love you bro!

[Wt57]

After 500 days I went to an addiction recovery meeting last night. It was a general addiction meeting based on AA 12 step. As I sat in the meeting surrounded by a drug dealing addict, alcoholics and those with eating disorders I caught myself comparing one addiction to another. Is my addiction less offensive because its legal? Is their addiction less understandable, because they are so foolish for not recognizing how stupid their actions are? Dammit, how can I be so damn stupid! Haven't I learned anything over the past year! I am exactly like every other addict out there, a slave to an action or substance. Are some addictions easier to gain control of? Well, hell yes! My addiction is nicotine and I'd find making myself puck really easy to overcome but the addict with a eating disorder has every bit as difficult time controlling their actions as I have had. We each have our own individual weaknesses and strengths. I still can't believe how I sat there and had those judgmental thoughts about another's addiction. After thinking about it all day I've come to the conclusion that my addicted mind that has been trying to drag me back towards slavery on a regular basis found a way to minimize my addiction by making those other addicts addiction seem so much worse than my own. That is complete bullshit, for me I am a recovering alcoholic of 33+ years and a recovering nicotine addict of 500+ days and my addictions are mine (they are MY weaknesses). Who am I to judge another. I still can't believe I (a dumb ass that use to suck on ground up rotten stinking weeds with brown drool running out the corners of his mouth) judged my addiction less offensive than someone else's. 'bang head' 'bang head'

An addict is an addict!

[Wt57]

I will Quit Like Fuck with you Dougie. And I also won't hesitate to say quit like fuck in wt57's thread.

Thanks coach! I'll QLF with you too!

Dougie I'm glad you find something that I've said that can help you but I'll tell you most everything I write down is for me to remember the suck of quitting and why I never want to repeat it. I'm too old to go through this again. I thought 1 year ago after HOF that I'd be done posting soon. That didn't happen and for me can't. I never missed a day for 1 year and then tried backing off and couldn't do it. Why? 2 reasons; first, I need the daily promise lest I forget and let the bitch get a toe in the door. Second, I need to pay forward what I've received. I'm kinda addicted to KTC and the brotherhood! Trading KTC for nicotine isn't a bad trade at all.

[Coach Steve]

I will Quit Like Fuck with you Dougie. And I also won't hesitate to say quit like fuck in wt57's thread.

[Dougie]

Comrades, I am so humbled this night to be counted as a quitter with each of you. 300 nights ago I sat on the floor by the toilet and cried as I dumped my last 3 cans of Copenhagen into the bowl and flushed it. The next morning I woke up and wrote this:

This is probably the most I will ever have to say, believe it or not I'm a really quiet guy, kind of Introverted.

'crackup' I haven't shut up since!

Every morning, usually very early I have joined my Brothers of Quit in making a promise to stay nicotine free. Every night, I've shown back up to check on my friends. Along this journey we have lost a number of quitters that started strong and caved to the deceit of the false promises of nicotine addiction. Some of these addicts are still among my friends and I still text them from time to time to be there when their strength grows. None of us can stand to watch a cave but I hope I've always separated the cave from the caver because I've been that weak assed addict for going on 40 years.
Ecclesiastes 3:1 To every thing there is a season, and a time to every purpose under the heaven..
My season to quit took many years to arrive. That night 302 days ago that I was lead to KTC, I knew it was my time. It took me 2 nights to cave to the pressure of overwhelming feeling of that time to quit had arrived. 'qt'

This past month has been a very interesting part of my quit, with numerous lessons and feelings. I had a fellow addict that i had quit with daily for 250 days made a conscious decision to cave. I was deeply hurt, I took it personal for awhile. I realize I control 1 quit, mine!

One post that hit me was by Mthomas, on Shame of an addict.. I still haven't fully absorbed this concept but recognize it so well.

The another epic post Oral Surgeon Visit Today, By CDaniels that reminds us all of the blessings we have and the vulnerabilities we have.

Now I take that step onto the third floor with humility and pride. I recognize each milestone I've reached couldn't have happened without so many of you. I also remember the terrible pain I've suffered in quitting. The detox and withdrawal was definitely painful and sucked but that pain was minimal when compared to letting go of some of the life experiences that l hid from in my addiction. Even the past 3 days I've recognized another element of my life that has been and is holding me back. So many of us have found we had to change aspects of our lives we never associated with our addiction. My most recent discovery is the most painful yet and I'm not sure I'm ready to face it but I will continue to quit everyday and eventually I can work on accepting other changes.

Thanks to everyone and again today I quit with each and everyone of you that are committing to quit today.

Well, this is my last bump, as promised. I think its a great post and when I am finished with Wade's thread I am going to follow that link to MT's thread and get some learnin' there too. I need to head to bed now so I will have to finish the last page tomorrow.

WT57- you are the reason this site works. Thank you for posting very real, very personal, and very inspiring thoughts/feelings/insights. I am proud to quit with people like you and many others on this site. I hope now that you see how much integrity you have and that you inspire it in others that want it. I want this quit more than anything, that is why I am drinking the kool-aide and doing it one day (unit) at a time.

[Dougie]

This is for my fellow July Freedom lovin' Junkies (The Brotherhood of Quit)
I posted there but I wanted to make sure my challenge didn't get lost.


Quitters I've been struggling with a question the past few days. As most of you know I've been an addict for nearly 40 years and had many attempts to quit. Some of my attempts have lasted days, weeks and one even lasted 3 1/2 years. So the question: What is different this time? And I can say with true conviction it is different, I feel it, I know it and I am totally convinced that it is forever. That doesn't mean that I don't have to be here everyday and make that promise and commitment, I DO! As July has passed the 1/2 way point in the month and many of us have reached the Hall my excitement for each one of us as our day approaches intensifies. It doesn't matter if it is Kubrick's 117 or Liberdaves 86 The excitement is the same we are brothers!

Back to my question and why I'm asking it of myself. I believe that it has been spurred on by some caves! I have started questioning my commitment! I think the bitch has been trying all the windows and doors trying to find a opening into my quit. I had all of my canned answers as to why I quit but what was the real reason and what makes it different from all the other feeble attempts?

I have concluded that there isn't just one answer but several:
1. I was truly ready to quit, I wanted it, I had actually wanted it for about 6 months. But I hadn't tried because I couldn't live with another failed attempt, I already felt like a total failure at everything.
2. I didn't do it for my wife, even though I felt a need to be there for her through her daily health challenges. But I brought her into it with me after the ceremonial flushing of the dip and my morning process were over.
3. Probably the most important reason it is successful for me is that I brought my Savior into the process with me, (He brought me into the process by leading me to KTC) I have got to say that many of the previous times I had prayed for help but I wanted Him to do the work while I stood back and watched. I doesn't work that way!
4. KTC, it works! BROTHERHOOD  ACCOUNTABILITY = SUCCESS. Reaching the 100 day mark is true accomplishment in our addicted lives, but it isn't a reason to slack off. If anything it is more vital that we stick close together.

I don't know if I will ever reach the point of feeling safe to go without posting roll. For now that doesn't matter, I need it. I'm not able to live a nicotine free life without having an army behind me to help me with the daily battles! I know that is true for most if not all of us and challenge you to join with me in committing to 200 days! Men we have come too far to let our guard down, The war has just begun, lets join together to continue fighting the daily battles that present themselves.
Many of you have added your names to the top of the page committing to the 200 days lets get everyone there!

I think I promised I would only bump 1 -2 more so after this I have one left. this is pure quit.

[Dougie]

Am I an ADDICT OR DO I HAVE A HABIT??
I have seen this bantered about here on KTC since I first joined and people often mistakenly say that they have the bad habit of nicotine use. The putting nicotine into the body is definitely an addiction! I have been addicted to nicotine for years and my use is perfectly described in the following definition of Addiction. If you read further the definition of a Habit, my use of smokeless tobacco I contend was a habit. The main reason that I use to prove that it was a habit is that the use of fake dip wouldn't do any good for the addiction but it would satisfy the habit. I used fake dip for the first 50- 60 days of my quit on a regular basis, and then it just started becoming more of an annoyance. Now I keep it around for when my addiction causes me to crave the nicotine. The fake dip tricks my body into thinking that I'm feeding it the same thing It desires and wants. When in reality all I'm doing is giving it that placebo. This is exactly why the use of patches, gum, nasal sprays or any other form of nicotine is totally not acceptable, because they continue to feed the addiction. It is also why products like fake dip, seeds, gum, cat shit or whatever are acceptable the satisfy the habit but provide no nicotine for the addiction.

Definition of ADDICTION
1 the quality or state of being addicted
2 compulsive need for and use of a habit-forming substance (as heroin, nicotine, or alcohol) characterized by tolerance and by well-defined physiological symptoms upon withdrawal; broadly: persistent compulsive use of a substance known by the user to be harmful

Definition of HABIT
1. an acquired behavior pattern regularly followed until it has become almost involuntary: the habit of looking both ways before crossing the street.
2. customary practice or use: Daily bathing is an American habit.
3. a particular practice, custom, or usage: the habit of shaking hands.
4. a dominant or regular disposition or tendency; prevailing character or quality: She has a habit of looking at the bright side of things.

Sorry to keep bumping stuff up but this is some of the most intelligent stuff I have read on this site to date.

I promise only one or two more bumps- I need to get other quitters that want to QLF ( I will refrain from using profanity on your thread).

[Dougie]

Day 50 a road marker? Day 100 a milestone? 1 year another milestone?

These questions have been plaguing my mind this week. I have been comparing my quit to my life.

Life.......................Quit
Birth-------------------Day 1-------------- a beginning
1st steps--------------Day 50-------------a good start
1st day of school-----Day 100-----------a road marker
Out on your own-----1 yr-----------------a milestone
marriage  kids-----
Grandkids-------------
Retirement------------


Death------------------Death(still quit)--------------Triumph


My dilemma has been that in the whole scheme of my quit, the closer I get to HOF, I am becoming underwhelmed by it. I don't know what the life expectancy of a quit addict in my demographics is, I have longevity genes so lets say 80 yrs old. That means that I am way past 1/2 way to DEAD. I have had many side trips, detours, road markers and milestones in my life. Today I consider 50 days ago (the day I quit) as one of the milestones in my life that I will cherish with some of the bigger events in my life (such as marriage, birth of daughter, birth of grandkids etc.). If I put myself at the end, at death, I don't think day 50 or day 100 will even be listed on the event calendar, Maybe I'm wrong but I don't think so.
Looking down the road into the future has been one of the more difficult aspects to deal with in my quit! When I think long term I "CAVE". I'm strong, my quit is strong, I'm gaining something I've never had "integrity", I will not cave if I continue to quit 1 day at a time.
Another scary aspect of 50 or 100 days quit is when I compare it to the past: I've been a addict for over 14,000 days I've been alive a little over 20,000 days. Compare that to 100 days-----not even a drop in the bucket. So another lesson to be learned the past can also be overwhelming, thinking of it sows seeds of "CAVE".
My conclusion is: THE ONLY THING THAT MATTERS IS TODAY.

hmmm- I am experiencing the same feelings- more proof that I am not special in this addiction

[Dougie]

WHY QUIT.

Quit brothers and sisters, I have had something on my mind since day 1, actually I have thought about it for years. People quit for different reasons, something that bother one person dosenÂ’t bother another. I apologize in advance if this gets to lengthy. IÂ’ll try to condense it as much as possible.
Like most of you over the years IÂ’ve checked my mouth for sores especially when my mouth hurt. Afraid of getting cancer was always in the back of my mind but not a motivation to quit. Even after losing many teeth, still no motivation. Pictures of cancer victims didnÂ’t do it either. That brings me to my story that shows how stupid IÂ’ve been.
As an invincible 20 something I had a neighbor who was in his mid 80’s we had been hunting buddies, 'Remshot' Roe chewed A LOT and he got mouth cancer. I would go and set with him to give his wife a break. He wouldn’t go to the Dr. or take pain meds. He got a big hole in the side of his face and his wife would pick bone and teeth out daily. His jaw quit working and couldn’t open his mouth no problem he had a hole in his face to pour soup into. After feeding him his wife would clean the hole, pour ½ a can of Copenhagen in and cover it with a kotex, and then bandage his whole face back up. This whole f—king time I would set there with him and have a big fatty in my mouth. He lasted a little over a year after he first got the cancer and it was HELL!! Why would I continue?
My motivation to quit has been completely unrelated to the fear of cancer. IÂ’ve lived a life of very deep depression and used the chew as a way to cope with life, I thought. Not so: my addiction has proved to do just the opposite it has made me even more depressed because I always tried to hide it from my family and friends. Yes IÂ’ve been a ninja dipper for almost 40 yrs. Over the past 3 weeks I have found that I am finally free of my secret life and open to talk about my addiction with you and my family. My depression is leaving me each day a little at a time as I quit each day.
I feel a profound obligation to do anything that I can to help younger addicts quit while they are still young. I donÂ’t want to see anyone be as stupid as I have been! I donÂ’t care what your motivation is if you have quit stay quit with me!! If you are reading this and havenÂ’t quit, throw that shit away and run to post your quit NOW. There are always reasons to wait until tomorrow, but tomorrow never comes it just move on to the next tomorrow. I know this better than anyone I've had over 13,000 tomorrows. But now I've had 22 todays, I dont want to look back or ahead all that is important to me right now is TODAY and I QUIT AGAIN!!!!

Bumping this up-

Newbs- middles- vets- I have only made it this far on WT's thread but it is full of Q.U.I.T. get in here and soak it in- learn it and then live it.

[Its_Got2Happen]

Day 475
I need to record feelings I've been dealing with lately.  I've been falling into a depressed state very gradually over several weeks.  Recognizing and trying to overcome I noticed my thoughts of dipping and some degree of craving started taking up too much of my thoughts.  I know I used nicotine to 'escape' in the past.  I have the tools to stay quit but I don't have the tools to cope with deteriorating mental state.  Thus the conflict; the tool I used for depression was removed from the toolbox and hasn't been replaced with a substitute.  Just saying I recognize I have a huge void which was part of my life for 4 decades, replacing it will take effort and won't happen overnight.  KTC is a tool that has been helpful in filling hours of my time but I need more now.  It's my opinion that I'm not alone, it seems that those that cave after long pauses haven't replaced their past nicotine usage with a suitable replacement and fall back on what they knew from the past that fulfilled the need.  I'm working on finding the answers and replacement activities.  I'm open to suggestions.

Back to basics WT. You are allowing the old lies of the nic bitch to be whispered back into your ear.

Nicotine fills no voids in your life, it creates them.

You don't need that shit to fill any voids in your life. You want something to keep your idle hands and mind busy, get a new hobby. Start needlepoint, widdling wood, reading the good book, playing silly video games, crossword puzzles, model making, SOMETHING other than posioning yourself again. You know damn well that shit is only going to lead to more problems.

Also, is it not true that you said previous that USING nicotine caused you depression? In fact was that not the title of your HOF speech, "The missing warning label...this product may cause depression and thoughs of suicide"? I may be wrong as I'm going by pure memory here, but usually my mind/memory is pretty spot on.

Now you are saying nicotine was the tool you used to deal with depression and has been removed from the toolbox? YOU are the one who told ME that brain chemistry is a tricky thing and it was in fact modern medicine that kept your depression in check and that I should investigate the same thing as I became depressed when I quit...and I did, and it worked and may have saved my fucking life . Was/is that not a tool you should be using to deal with that issue, and not nicotine? Have you been diligent on that front of late?

I think you're daydreaming WT. I think youre feeling a little blue, perhaps a little bored and have that falsified gaze of thinking nic can cure what ails ya

BLINK. OR, I'M CLAPPING AS HARD AS I CAN RIGHT IN FRONT OF YOUR FACE ....WAKE UP!!!

You say guys cave after a long time because they haven't found a suitable replacement for the nic bitch. You really believe that? I don't fully.

I believe guys cave after a long time because they start to believe the lies again. That nic is going to make things better, that they can handle just one now and they aren't addicts anymore, that the reward outweighs the risk. In fact I believe I have heard YOU say such things. Again, I could be mistaken but like I said, my memory serves me pretty well and you have taught me A LOT, and when you speak my ears perk up and I listen.

475 days is a long time to be quit, but after 40 years of use I don't think its uncommon to have thoughts like this. In fact its probably very natural and perhaps even healthy for you.

It gives you yet another chance to step back and see nicotine addiction for what it really is. A pack of bullshit lies that will continually pop into your noggin from time to time.

Not sure I helped you much but just putting down how I honestly feel. Hopefully others will do the same and you will have some good stuff to draw from to help get you back to feeling occupied.

We all know damn sure, nicotine ain't the answer.

Diesel out.

Spot on advice. I think I know the void you are talking about, besides time though what void ? Sitting and spitting, walking and spitting etc you know the different activities you partook and chewed.

Do not believe the lies your addicted mind tells you. The task is to find enjoyment in your life again.

If I can help you let me know. I will say a prayer for you brother.

475 days, wow. Do you, or have you ever played guitar?? It is something i started doing about 10 years ago. something I have really enjoyed and you will be surprised how much time it kills. When you first start learning the time and places your mind travels are amazing.

Wait, i'm to old for the guitar. False!

Wait, I can't because my fingers are to chubby. False!

Wait, I can't because my fingers are to short. False!

There is also a lot of instruments out there that will help if guitar doesn't suit you.

Keyboard, violin, harmonica, cello. These are just a few. I could see you playing a violin,, sure.

Just throwing this out there. You may be an accomplished instrumentalist already. Glad to be quit with you WT...

Good idea. I hear wedge plays a mean Hungarian crotch bugle. Maybe he can give you some lessons?

Thanks guys. That's why I posted, I needed a kick in the nuts to wake me up. Not in danger of caving and never was just feeling sorry for myself. That damn bitch always knows and recognizes our weak moments. Lets all have a great quit weekend! Out!!

Sounds like boredom, and the inability to relax.. This is something I've struggled with as well. Most people on here are drinkers.. Nothing wrong with that, but I don't drink. Tobacco  alcohol was a way for me to relax, so I simply had to find another way..
When I hit the 3rd floor I also needed a new goal. So 2 birds one stone and spot -on (srans) I started playing the guitar. Hawaiian slack key- It's the most beautiful music I've ever heard, and it happens to be guitar as well. I just got back from vacation and couldn't take my guitar. It's all I could think about.
Last week my son said, (Hey dad, it sounds like music now) I actually played a whole song from a book. My point is nothing is impossible, and we just need to find those things that TRULY make us happy. peace

One day at a time WT57. I am sorry that your feeling this way, but be assured it is perfectly normal. I still have the same the type of feelings. I have actually been thinking about talking to this therapist at my work, (social worker?) It is called the Associate Assistance Program. Have you ever used any professional services such as that? I have not, but I am considering it. Keep killing it WT, and keep helping newbs, I cant even begin to tell you how helpful you have been to me.

[kana]

Day 475
I need to record feelings I've been dealing with lately.  I've been falling into a depressed state very gradually over several weeks.  Recognizing and trying to overcome I noticed my thoughts of dipping and some degree of craving started taking up too much of my thoughts.  I know I used nicotine to 'escape' in the past.  I have the tools to stay quit but I don't have the tools to cope with deteriorating mental state.  Thus the conflict; the tool I used for depression was removed from the toolbox and hasn't been replaced with a substitute.  Just saying I recognize I have a huge void which was part of my life for 4 decades, replacing it will take effort and won't happen overnight.  KTC is a tool that has been helpful in filling hours of my time but I need more now.  It's my opinion that I'm not alone, it seems that those that cave after long pauses haven't replaced their past nicotine usage with a suitable replacement and fall back on what they knew from the past that fulfilled the need.  I'm working on finding the answers and replacement activities.  I'm open to suggestions.

Back to basics WT. You are allowing the old lies of the nic bitch to be whispered back into your ear.

Nicotine fills no voids in your life, it creates them.

You don't need that shit to fill any voids in your life. You want something to keep your idle hands and mind busy, get a new hobby. Start needlepoint, widdling wood, reading the good book, playing silly video games, crossword puzzles, model making, SOMETHING other than posioning yourself again. You know damn well that shit is only going to lead to more problems.

Also, is it not true that you said previous that USING nicotine caused you depression? In fact was that not the title of your HOF speech, "The missing warning label...this product may cause depression and thoughs of suicide"? I may be wrong as I'm going by pure memory here, but usually my mind/memory is pretty spot on.

Now you are saying nicotine was the tool you used to deal with depression and has been removed from the toolbox? YOU are the one who told ME that brain chemistry is a tricky thing and it was in fact modern medicine that kept your depression in check and that I should investigate the same thing as I became depressed when I quit...and I did, and it worked and may have saved my fucking life . Was/is that not a tool you should be using to deal with that issue, and not nicotine? Have you been diligent on that front of late?

I think you're daydreaming WT. I think youre feeling a little blue, perhaps a little bored and have that falsified gaze of thinking nic can cure what ails ya

BLINK. OR, I'M CLAPPING AS HARD AS I CAN RIGHT IN FRONT OF YOUR FACE ....WAKE UP!!!

You say guys cave after a long time because they haven't found a suitable replacement for the nic bitch. You really believe that? I don't fully.

I believe guys cave after a long time because they start to believe the lies again. That nic is going to make things better, that they can handle just one now and they aren't addicts anymore, that the reward outweighs the risk. In fact I believe I have heard YOU say such things. Again, I could be mistaken but like I said, my memory serves me pretty well and you have taught me A LOT, and when you speak my ears perk up and I listen.

475 days is a long time to be quit, but after 40 years of use I don't think its uncommon to have thoughts like this. In fact its probably very natural and perhaps even healthy for you.

It gives you yet another chance to step back and see nicotine addiction for what it really is. A pack of bullshit lies that will continually pop into your noggin from time to time.

Not sure I helped you much but just putting down how I honestly feel. Hopefully others will do the same and you will have some good stuff to draw from to help get you back to feeling occupied.

We all know damn sure, nicotine ain't the answer.

Diesel out.

Spot on advice. I think I know the void you are talking about, besides time though what void ? Sitting and spitting, walking and spitting etc you know the different activities you partook and chewed.

Do not believe the lies your addicted mind tells you. The task is to find enjoyment in your life again.

If I can help you let me know. I will say a prayer for you brother.

475 days, wow. Do you, or have you ever played guitar?? It is something i started doing about 10 years ago. something I have really enjoyed and you will be surprised how much time it kills. When you first start learning the time and places your mind travels are amazing.

Wait, i'm to old for the guitar. False!

Wait, I can't because my fingers are to chubby. False!

Wait, I can't because my fingers are to short. False!

There is also a lot of instruments out there that will help if guitar doesn't suit you.

Keyboard, violin, harmonica, cello. These are just a few. I could see you playing a violin,, sure.

Just throwing this out there. You may be an accomplished instrumentalist already. Glad to be quit with you WT...

Good idea. I hear wedge plays a mean Hungarian crotch bugle. Maybe he can give you some lessons?

Thanks guys. That's why I posted, I needed a kick in the nuts to wake me up. Not in danger of caving and never was just feeling sorry for myself. That damn bitch always knows and recognizes our weak moments. Lets all have a great quit weekend! Out!!

Sounds like boredom, and the inability to relax.. This is something I've struggled with as well. Most people on here are drinkers.. Nothing wrong with that, but I don't drink. Tobacco  alcohol was a way for me to relax, so I simply had to find another way..
When I hit the 3rd floor I also needed a new goal. So 2 birds one stone and spot -on (srans) I started playing the guitar. Hawaiian slack key- It's the most beautiful music I've ever heard, and it happens to be guitar as well. I just got back from vacation and couldn't take my guitar. It's all I could think about.
Last week my son said, (Hey dad, it sounds like music now) I actually played a whole song from a book. My point is nothing is impossible, and we just need to find those things that TRULY make us happy. peace