General Discussion - 2014

[wastepanel]

Relevant reading (Heard the author is a doosh though)

[nsterken]

not sure if it is the enjoyment of reading fiction or what, but a little research into brain chemistry and physiology are needed here for you as maybe you will learn that once you have created the pathways in your brain, they will be there and any relapse will set you back to worse that what you were.

and yes we put ourselves in this situation, and yes it is a lifelong fight, but it is a fight that can be won, and the further out we go, the less energy it takes to fight and the better we feel.

so you keep your own unproven theories and we here will keep doing what is the best for us (and is the best way to quit and stay quit that I out on the market)....and that is a fact.

lbj I will join you my brother for some 'Popcorn'

Interesting that you refer to opinions as fiction but that is fine.

If you reread what I wrote, you will see that what I am saying is this:

for you, your reality is that the papers and research you have read about biochemistry and neural pathways being permanent are infallible truth (yes, I have read these articles as well and when I get a moment, I will post some links to newer articles that are where I forged my ideas from, it is not all simply fiction). They also used to think that the world is flat.

Now, I did not say that your way of quitting is wrong. Awesome. The original post was not about quitting but about the always addicted thing, which you mention with the neural pathways findings. My point is that these works were researched and published and supported by an FDA that stands to gain more from this type of idea than the one I have presented, which is not profitable on their end. Since their idea is the one you know, it works for you.

I simply present an argument for a much more empowered and free reality after the enslavement of nicotine. We all are free to choose what we believe and that is fine. We also live in a society where we should be able to enjoy freedom of speech and that is all I have done, take it or leave it.

[wastepanel]

Day 30 is about the time that you get "tired" of quitting, and start searching for normalcy.  It's very common to see some flailing, and it's very common to see somebody declare "victory".

Day 30 is a drop in the bucket to a quit, and you've got a long way to go.

Tell you what...You quit your way, and I'll quit mine.  Catch me in days quit (I'm at 950), and I'll try out your method.  Otherwise, I'm sticking to what has worked for me and thousands others that have walked these halls here.

Oh, and read up on the rules of addiction.  I expect a full report.

That is the crappy thing about my post, is it makes someone like you look like you have not accomplished something wonderful.

Awesome, dude, on your quit, and I would love to talk with you about it so that I can successfully make it to that point.

One thing that irritates me is I kind of believed a lot of what I read on the site about the 30 day mark: I feel just as terrible as the first week, hardly any better. I am gonna go to the doctor soon if this doesn't change but I think it is still withdrawals, even if they are only psycholgical.

No, I do not feel at this point like, I got this, I feel quite the opposite. My post is actually quite different and is geared at the person like you, at the 950 day mark. My point is simply that I disagree with the mindset that you will always be an addict and are helpless to change that fact. I don't buy it. I think it is 1980's collectivism psychology inplemented to control a society with crippling and debilitating ideas and morals.

As far as the rules of addction: are you referring to the ones posted here on killthecan.org? I read those: they are what originally made me give up my quit and keep on chewing.

Those are the rules I was referring to as being wrong, they were written in the mid to early eighties, I believe. A lot of rehab centers to this day still stick with those types of rules of addiction though there have been some new research into the types of things I am referencing, but, alas, they are met with heavy opposition since the majority of the masses have been so indoctrinated with the old idea.

So, thanks for the reply, but I wasn't really talking about quitting but more once you are quit. The point came up on another site concerning Hoffman's death. If he was told in countless rehab stints that he would always be a heroin addict and he was always 1 step away from death, is it really any surprise that he relapsed and died? If you listen to the same thing for long enough, you start to believe it.

I believe it is our personal responsibility to decide what it is we are going to believe and not simply accept everything as truth because someone with a PhD wrote it. I think we also should take into consideration the facts that those ppl with the PhD's also make millions from running clinics to help ppl with their addictions. If you truly cure those ppl right away forever, they won't really make good repeat customers, do they? Not trying to be snarky, just food for thought.

I wrote this a few years ago, and I believe it is very pertinent to your posts today:

So, this is 6 months quit...

I really thought CNC, Moe, and myself were clear that being a retread is not all the fun and games people make it out to be.  We screamed how important it is to post roll everyday.  We've practiced it for close to 200 days now.  Yet, the basterds keep falling off roll one by one.

It pisses me off because I fell off the posting wagon early in 2007.  I stopped posting around 150 days in that stoppage.  I didn't cave right away.  I was "quit"!

In the next 850 plus days, my brain began ridding itself of my addict thoughts.  It started with the nicotine cravings and ended with the tools I learned that kept me quit.  The greatest lie ever is an addict convincing himself he's cured. 

I never planned caved.  I got drunk, and I asked to bum one off of my friend.  It was that simple.  No warning lights went off.  I hadn't even thought about the site in quite a while.  I said "That sounds good" and I was off.  I didn't feel bad afterwards either.  It was gross, and I spit it out fairly quickly.

I did not think about it again for about a week.  Unfortunately, I started a timer in my body that was going to lead to it returning to a dependent state.

The next week, the nic bitch was in my ear.

Scott....you're the man.  You used to chew all the time.  Not anymore.  Hell, you chewed last week with no cravings or thoughts of it until now.  It's true.  You can't get re-addicted with just one.  In fact...I bet you could chew with your friends now.  Just don't buy a can...

So I did. 

Everytime I saw my friends, I was chewing again.  Until they got pissed over all the bumming I was doing...

Scott...It's not fair these guys have to give up their hard earned money all the time.  Would you be happy if they kept coming over and drinking your beer?  Just buy a can and toss it afterwards.  Kara will never know...

So I did.

I bought a can for $4.50 everytime I went out with my friends (or I was drinking and my wife wasn't around).  I would have 3-4 chews a night on these occasions (1 night a week) for the next month or so.  At first, I'd toss the can the moment I got in the car.  Gradually, it was as I was pulling into my neighborhood.

Until one day...

Scott...Are you really going to waste that?  You have a good $3.00 worth of chew.  You can keep it in your car and just get out when you're going out with your friends.  That's just being thrifty, man.  You're strong, and it's not like you're re-addicted....

So I did.

I put the can in the glove compartment and would forget about it until I was going out (until tax season started though).  Tax season sucks.  You give up 3 good months of your life and everybody in it.  I was working much more, and my stress level was through the roof.  One night, as I was coming home from work at 1:30 am, my can beckoned me.

Scott...I can relax you.  You still reach for me out of habit when you get stuck on a tax return.  I've always been there to help you out, and I'm willing to do it again.  As long as you're not chewing at home, you're fine.  That's how you can stay control of me, ok?

So I did.

By March of 2010, I was back to chewing as much as I could.  I didn't see my wife that often, and would sneak downstairs to "work on taxes".  When I did see her, we were in bed, waking up from the bed, or eating a meal. 

I was chewing all day long, but I wasn't re-addicted.  Nope...I was in control.

Yet I had started chewing at home because I wanted to.

I didn't care anymore.  I liked chewing.  It relaxed me.  It made me a better worker.  It took the edge off.  And I was dreading April 15 because it meant I was going to have to be home more and I could not go an entire evening without chewing.

My wife had just cleaned the kitchen floor.  I had been putting in chews over the garbage can to assure there was no sprinkles on the floor.  I missed that day.  She grabbed a napkin, and started picking it up.  She looked at it, and asked me if I had anything I wanted to tell her.  I told her I started chewing again.  It felt great to be free.

She was pissed.

I didn't care.  I now had an excuse to chew all day long, everyday.  No fucking hiding it.  No pretending that I'm quit.  Just cancer weed all day long.

It took me from October 25, 2009 to March 2010 for this process to complete.  It wasn't overnight.  It was a series of compromises I made with myself.  I never craved initially.  I never thought about the negative consequences or the board.  It was a sneaky process, but deep down I knew.  I knew the path I was on.

I am 184 days quit today.  I have yet to miss a roll call. 

That was my promise to myself when I returned.  I forgot everything last time because I stopped posting roll.  I stopped reminding myself how bad I was beforehand, and I stopped soiling nicotine's name.  I forgot.

I will never forget again because I don't want to fucking do this again.  There's way too good of a life that exists outside of a physically addicted state.  I can run around with my boys.  I don't have to explain what "Skoal Straight" is to a 7 year old.  I don't have sneak a chew in before coaching his tee ball team.  I don't have to pre-plan to kiss my wife.  My temperature doesn't go up to 175 degrees the moment I am done eating.  I don't wake up with that shit on my face.  My shower doesn't clog because I 've spit a wad into the drain.  Clients don't give me wierd looks when they realize I am, in fact, sporting a fatty in a meeting.

I give 30 seconds each morning for that freedom.  There are no compromises on that.  A cave is a compromise wrapped in lies.  The rules are simple:

(1)  Post roll.
(2)  Stay quit.
(3)  Repeat.

Please tell me where there is room to compromise in there.  If you skip step 1, then are you supposed to skip it all the time since step 3 is "repeat"?    How long until you start skipping step 2?  850 days? 

Best.Return On Investment.Ever.

30 days is freaking awesome man.

We post roll here not to dwell on our addiction, but to celebrate our freedom. Do you lock your door at night? Even when burglars are not in sight? Do you buckle your seat belt in the car? Even though you're driving safely? The point of roll is not be sad about addiction. It is a reminder. It's me saying "Oh, yeah...I can't have just one." (And if you read my words above, you'll see I've been there with the "just one" mentality and it failed splendidly.)

Stick around. You're fun.

[nsterken]

Day 30 is about the time that you get "tired" of quitting, and start searching for normalcy. It's very common to see some flailing, and it's very common to see somebody declare "victory".

Day 30 is a drop in the bucket to a quit, and you've got a long way to go.

Tell you what...You quit your way, and I'll quit mine. Catch me in days quit (I'm at 950), and I'll try out your method. Otherwise, I'm sticking to what has worked for me and thousands others that have walked these halls here.

Oh, and read up on the rules of addiction. I expect a full report.

That is the crappy thing about my post, is it makes someone like you look like you have not accomplished something wonderful.

Awesome, dude, on your quit, and I would love to talk with you about it so that I can successfully make it to that point.

One thing that irritates me is I kind of believed a lot of what I read on the site about the 30 day mark: I feel just as terrible as the first week, hardly any better. I am gonna go to the doctor soon if this doesn't change but I think it is still withdrawals, even if they are only psycholgical.

No, I do not feel at this point like, I got this, I feel quite the opposite. My post is actually quite different and is geared at the person like you, at the 950 day mark. My point is simply that I disagree with the mindset that you will always be an addict and are helpless to change that fact. I don't buy it. I think it is 1980's collectivism psychology inplemented to control a society with crippling and debilitating ideas and morals.

As far as the rules of addction: are you referring to the ones posted here on killthecan.org? I read those: they are what originally made me give up my quit and keep on chewing.

Those are the rules I was referring to as being wrong, they were written in the mid to early eighties, I believe. A lot of rehab centers to this day still stick with those types of rules of addiction though there have been some new research into the types of things I am referencing, but, alas, they are met with heavy opposition since the majority of the masses have been so indoctrinated with the old idea.

So, thanks for the reply, but I wasn't really talking about quitting but more once you are quit. The point came up on another site concerning Hoffman's death. If he was told in countless rehab stints that he would always be a heroin addict and he was always 1 step away from death, is it really any surprise that he relapsed and died? If you listen to the same thing for long enough, you start to believe it.

I believe it is our personal responsibility to decide what it is we are going to believe and not simply accept everything as truth because someone with a PhD wrote it. I think we also should take into consideration the facts that those ppl with the PhD's also make millions from running clinics to help ppl with their addictions. If you truly cure those ppl right away forever, they won't really make good repeat customers, do they? Not trying to be snarky, just food for thought.

[SirDerek]

Wish you luck pal,unfortunately lbj is wired a little different see ,I can't have just one.
Interesting read though. 'Popcorn'

I do apologize for how snarky my post sounds, but it is meant more to evince a reaction than anything (mostly done for shock value).

But that is my point, lbj. It is TRUE: we all are unique. But, we also are all human. Some things are the same.

Take this because I truly want to offer it to you but you will need to completely open your mind for 1 moment. You say, you cannot have just one. That's how I was. When I was a youth, with weed. In my twenties, with beer. Whatever it is, I have a theory that we will all have a period where we try to escape the catalyst but we cannot have 'just one'.

So you quit. But you still are at the 'mentality' stage that, you can't have just one. To me, this also should not be considered a fully quit person who has been completely cured of their addiction. To me, when you reach the full curement of your addiction (meaning, you really no longer are addicted, or, you CAN now have just one,) is when you can confidently take a dip and chew it and that is it. Also, in my hypothesis, when you reach this mark, you will know because you will not be able to finish the dip because it will taste awful.

Sound like BS? Example: I can hardly finish a beer now. Most of the time, I end up dumping them down the drain. I have lost the taste for them. How? I believe I simply drank so many of them that I outgrew the taste. And that is when you have defeated an addiction.

I do not believe that you DEFEAT an addiction in the way we think but you actually OUTGROW an addiction, to put it more accurately. I mean this: if you think you cannot have just 1 dip or you could relapse, then that is true for your reality and you should not chew at ALL. But, this does not mean that you cannot grow to the point where you can have 1 chew and that be it. Again, when this happens, you probably won't like the taste, anyways.

Now, here is the basis of my theory: you can never OUTGROW the addiction IF you yourself BELIEVE that you can never have JUST one. I believe that our thoughts, through our subconcsious, greatly influence our biochemical makeup and tolerance for stress. So I theorize that if you believe when you are told that you will always be an addict to dip, you will actually always be an addict to dip, since that is what your mind has decided is true reality. If you begin to reject that notion, it crumbles and is no longer as concrete. You will then start to believe differently. At this point, you will no longer have to be worriying about staying quite, you will simply BE quit. Why? Your mind finally began to believe it. As long as you believe it, you are. You can have 3 dips and still be quit. Unless someone tells you (or you tell yourself) that having those 3 dips means you have to start all over again and you are no longer quite and are now fully addicted again, possibly worse than before. See how that works? Crazy shit.

Now, realistically, if you throw in 3 dips and chew them, yeah, you are probably not fully quit in the first place. This does not mean that you weren't quit, or are starting over, it just shows you where you are SUBCONSCIOUSLY. For me, I know I could not buy a tin of dip cuz I would chew the whole thing. I am not yet fully quit. How do I know when I am fully quit? I don't think you can fully put a number on it. I think it will be different for all of us. But I think it is defenitely related to how much personal growth we experience while we are quitting. And personal growth surrounding our attitudes toward using tobacco.

So, in summary, I am saying that perhaps a better attitude FOR YOU may be that currently, you cannot have JUST one. But, someday, you will be to the point where you could have JUST one. Not maybe, but DEFENITELY. And if you take that dip with the thought in mind that "Now I have made it, I can handle having just one dip, I have waited so long for this," that is where you will fail but not because you are a hopeless addict but that you have fooled yourself into thinking a certain thing so that you can have dip!

How you will know you have made it is when your honest answer becomes 'Yes, I could have just one and know that I will not become addicted. But, coincidentally, I don't even want ONE dip because I don't chew tobacco anymore." And yes, that day can come. And there will be nothing wrong if you have that dip. Most likely, it will taste like shit. Every cig I've ever had tasted like shit. Every puff of weed. Beer doesn't taste like shit, but it tastes a lot stronger than it ever did before.

I just think we all can have a much more successful time quitting if we start to downplay tobacco addiction to what it is: an immature and dangerous habit we formed in an ineffective attempt at managing our lives. If we start to treat it as such, it can become quite a bit more managable. Again, our reality is whatever we believe it to be.

If we make our quit out to be the worst thing ever, it will be. If we simply say, ah, this sucks, then it just sucks. Naps help. Herbal chew REALLY can help, I think.

But we can get rid of the addiction and I do not believe that we can never outgrow the addiction ever again. I think that is a very self defeating attitude, and, if it is true, then none of us should have ever quit in the first place.

not sure if it is the enjoyment of reading fiction or what, but a little research into brain chemistry and physiology are needed here for you as maybe you will learn that once you have created the pathways in your brain, they will be there and any relapse will set you back to worse that what you were.

and yes we put ourselves in this situation, and yes it is a lifelong fight, but it is a fight that can be won, and the further out we go, the less energy it takes to fight and the better we feel.

so you keep your own unproven theories and we here will keep doing what is the best for us (and is the best way to quit and stay quit that I out on the market)....and that is a fact.

lbj I will join you my brother for some 'Popcorn'

[nsterken]

Wish you luck pal,unfortunately lbj is wired a little different see ,I can't have just one.
Interesting read though. 'Popcorn'

I do apologize for how snarky my post sounds, but it is meant more to evince a reaction than anything (mostly done for shock value).

But that is my point, lbj. It is TRUE: we all are unique. But, we also are all human. Some things are the same.

Take this because I truly want to offer it to you but you will need to completely open your mind for 1 moment. You say, you cannot have just one. That's how I was. When I was a youth, with weed. In my twenties, with beer. Whatever it is, I have a theory that we will all have a period where we try to escape the catalyst but we cannot have 'just one'.

So you quit. But you still are at the 'mentality' stage that, you can't have just one. To me, this also should not be considered a fully quit person who has been completely cured of their addiction. To me, when you reach the full curement of your addiction (meaning, you really no longer are addicted, or, you CAN now have just one,) is when you can confidently take a dip and chew it and that is it. Also, in my hypothesis, when you reach this mark, you will know because you will not be able to finish the dip because it will taste awful.

Sound like BS? Example: I can hardly finish a beer now. Most of the time, I end up dumping them down the drain. I have lost the taste for them. How? I believe I simply drank so many of them that I outgrew the taste. And that is when you have defeated an addiction.

I do not believe that you DEFEAT an addiction in the way we think but you actually OUTGROW an addiction, to put it more accurately. I mean this: if you think you cannot have just 1 dip or you could relapse, then that is true for your reality and you should not chew at ALL. But, this does not mean that you cannot grow to the point where you can have 1 chew and that be it. Again, when this happens, you probably won't like the taste, anyways.

Now, here is the basis of my theory: you can never OUTGROW the addiction IF you yourself BELIEVE that you can never have JUST one. I believe that our thoughts, through our subconcsious, greatly influence our biochemical makeup and tolerance for stress. So I theorize that if you believe when you are told that you will always be an addict to dip, you will actually always be an addict to dip, since that is what your mind has decided is true reality. If you begin to reject that notion, it crumbles and is no longer as concrete. You will then start to believe differently. At this point, you will no longer have to be worriying about staying quite, you will simply BE quit. Why? Your mind finally began to believe it. As long as you believe it, you are. You can have 3 dips and still be quit. Unless someone tells you (or you tell yourself) that having those 3 dips means you have to start all over again and you are no longer quite and are now fully addicted again, possibly worse than before. See how that works? Crazy shit.

Now, realistically, if you throw in 3 dips and chew them, yeah, you are probably not fully quit in the first place. This does not mean that you weren't quit, or are starting over, it just shows you where you are SUBCONSCIOUSLY. For me, I know I could not buy a tin of dip cuz I would chew the whole thing. I am not yet fully quit. How do I know when I am fully quit? I don't think you can fully put a number on it. I think it will be different for all of us. But I think it is defenitely related to how much personal growth we experience while we are quitting. And personal growth surrounding our attitudes toward using tobacco.

So, in summary, I am saying that perhaps a better attitude FOR YOU may be that currently, you cannot have JUST one. But, someday, you will be to the point where you could have JUST one. Not maybe, but DEFENITELY. And if you take that dip with the thought in mind that "Now I have made it, I can handle having just one dip, I have waited so long for this," that is where you will fail but not because you are a hopeless addict but that you have fooled yourself into thinking a certain thing so that you can have dip!

How you will know you have made it is when your honest answer becomes 'Yes, I could have just one and know that I will not become addicted. But, coincidentally, I don't even want ONE dip because I don't chew tobacco anymore." And yes, that day can come. And there will be nothing wrong if you have that dip. Most likely, it will taste like shit. Every cig I've ever had tasted like shit. Every puff of weed. Beer doesn't taste like shit, but it tastes a lot stronger than it ever did before.

I just think we all can have a much more successful time quitting if we start to downplay tobacco addiction to what it is: an immature and dangerous habit we formed in an ineffective attempt at managing our lives. If we start to treat it as such, it can become quite a bit more managable. Again, our reality is whatever we believe it to be.

If we make our quit out to be the worst thing ever, it will be. If we simply say, ah, this sucks, then it just sucks. Naps help. Herbal chew REALLY can help, I think.

But we can get rid of the addiction and I do not believe that we can never outgrow the addiction ever again. I think that is a very self defeating attitude, and, if it is true, then none of us should have ever quit in the first place.

[Evil_Won]

Okay, first time using the forums and, I gotta say, kind of odd forum that does not allow members to start new topics.  Can tell I won't be spending much time here.  Too bad, kind of a uniques site but, oh well.

Anyway, ended up finding this site at the end of 2013 and quit chewing in the beginning of January.  This weekend, Feb 7 2014, will be 4 weeks without dipping.

This was only possible with Smokey Mountain chew my local Wal-Mart sells.  Not real sure what made me finally quit: I am 30.  I have chewed since I was 15.

I really hate not chewing tobacco, my life was much better when I was chewing it.  Me and my wife do nothing but fight now, I have gained about 15 more pounds since quitting and I feel like shit all day. The crap folks have posted on this site about things improving are pretty much bullshit to me but perhaps it is different for each individual.

I would prefer to continue chewing tobacco but do not due to the cancer issue: there have been several guys in our community die from chewing tobacco cancers and it is the most horrific thing ever.  Still, if I did not have a family, I would have kept chewing and simply had some type of 'accident' if diagnosed with one of these nasty cancers.  That's probli a bit too real for most folks but, oh well.

My biggest problem with this site is how the main ideology behind this site is that you are an addict FOREVER; there is no hope, you can never be cured, you could start chewing at any moment, there is nothing you can do about it, etc., etc.  When I first read that on this site, I was really depressed and kept right on chewing.  Didn't visit the site anymore. But I thought about it for awhile and thought, ya know, that's a bullshit, hippie, 1980's, depressing, atheistic, woe-is-me attitude.

I don't do drugs.  When I was in high school, I did them when I went to parties, which was the majority of the time.  I grew up.  When an old friend from high school came home to visit 3 years ago from Atlanta, she and I smoked out back, much to my wife's dismay.  I didn't really want to but had never smoked with this person and gave it a try: it had been about 2 years since I had smoked weed before that.  I ended up hating being high and paranoid and, of course, have not touched any since.

For some reason, say 4 years ago, I quit buying beer, going to the bar and partying. Just stopped with no real explanation.  I think right now there may be two beers in the fridge.  The last time I had a beer was about 5 weeks ago.  The last time I was drunk was about a year and a half ago.

Now I will admit I was a raging alcoholic.  Up until 5 years ago.  I was also a pothead until I turned 20 and the world I was in (the beef show cattle world) looked down on that type of thing so I ditched it.  Basically, I grew out of my addictions.  I did not REMAIN an addict to this day.  If I get drunk, I do not turn back into a raging alcholic and binge drink for 6 months straight and have to check into rehab.  Neither will you: that's simply stupid.

Same thing if I smoke some green.  This will probli not happen since I really can't stand smoking the shit anymore but if I chose to, I would NOT start smoking it every day.  As far as any other substance, I'm not real worried cuz I think they are pointless and dangerous. 

Point is, I grew up.  Same reason I think I quit chewing: yes, it sucks but how many professional photographers do you know that sport a big old chaw while taking your HS senior's portrait?  Not many.  Same thing: I am growing out of it (thank the Lord, thought it would never happen.)

And once I realized all of this, I returned to killthecan.org and went to the alternative chew section of the site (the only useful part of the site, in my mind.) I found Smokey Mountain chew was sold at Wal-Mart, made a quick trip to the local store and picked up a bunch of tins and began mixing dips til my tin of Longhorn was gone beginning of January.

Now I'm addicted to SMC and that sucks but at least the biggest worry I now have is cavities from the excessive amounts of molasses.  However, just wanted folks at this site to know that, IMO, I think it is silly to perpetrate the idea that if I have another dip in my life, I will instantly be driving to the 7-11 to buy a tin and be hooked, just like that again.  It's been about 7 yeas since I quite smoking.  In that time, I bet I have had about 10 cigarettes.  I never did buy a pack of smokes in that time or take up smoking again.  But, every now and then, I had a cigarette.  Now?  Can't stand the smell.  Just outgrew it.

This idea that you are always a HOPELESS addict and nothing can ever change it is absolutely ridiculous, childish and counterproductive.  This idea was brought about by schlock psychology in the eighties and I do not understand WHY it has stuck but if you do some research on modern thinking on the subject, the general concesus has changed since subjects and quitters reports do not match the supposed theories of yesteryear.

So, for those who have bought into this notion that you will ALWAYS be addicted to chew, it's simply not true.  You could have a dip later in life and be just fine.  You probli should not have one while you are transitioning to a non-tobacco lifestyle: that would probli help you backslide.  But, a year or 2 down the road, you will probably be able to have a dip from a friend, savor it and not have another for a long time and be just fine with it.  If you choose to back to chewing tobacco, that would be a pretty irresponsible choice but it is your choice.  In my experience, however, no addiction is strong enough (save for cocaine, heroin, or other hardcore drugs) to have a hold like that over a years time.  It is different for everyone but part of folks problems might be this stupid fallacy that if you put the magic tobacco plant back in your lip, you'll immediately go buy another log right away.  Simply not true.

Id also be weary of anyone selling that idea.  Because they probably have some sort of help they want to sell you.  Like non-tobacco chews.

Not saying there is anything wrong with quitting (praise the Lord!) but just think about it.  Everyone is looking to make a buck.  What kind of quit is it if you have to stay a member of a website for 20 years to ensure you don't start chewing tobacco again.  Is that really a quit you own or killthecan.org owns?  That's my 2 cents, go ahead and flame on me all ya want.

I call it as I see it.  And, for me personally, your site made me want to give up and keep on chewing.  The little voice of reason (Holy Spirit) that said your site was full of shit and didn't quite get the full picture.  Since I listened to the latter voice, I have now been nicotine free for 4 weeks, something I have never accomplished in over 15 years.

God is good.

Wish you luck pal,unfortunately lbj is wired a little different see ,I can't have just one.
Interesting read though. 'Popcorn'

Day 30 is about the time that you get "tired" of quitting, and start searching for normalcy. It's very common to see some flailing, and it's very common to see somebody declare "victory".

Day 30 is a drop in the bucket to a quit, and you've got a long way to go.

Tell you what...You quit your way, and I'll quit mine. Catch me in days quit (I'm at 950), and I'll try out your method. Otherwise, I'm sticking to what has worked for me and thousands others that have walked these halls here.

Oh, and read up on the rules of addiction. I expect a full report.

Pure garbage. You douche.

[wastepanel]

Okay, first time using the forums and, I gotta say, kind of odd forum that does not allow members to start new topics.  Can tell I won't be spending much time here.  Too bad, kind of a uniques site but, oh well.

Anyway, ended up finding this site at the end of 2013 and quit chewing in the beginning of January.  This weekend, Feb 7 2014, will be 4 weeks without dipping.

This was only possible with Smokey Mountain chew my local Wal-Mart sells.  Not real sure what made me finally quit: I am 30.  I have chewed since I was 15.

I really hate not chewing tobacco, my life was much better when I was chewing it.  Me and my wife do nothing but fight now, I have gained about 15 more pounds since quitting and I feel like shit all day. The crap folks have posted on this site about things improving are pretty much bullshit to me but perhaps it is different for each individual.

I would prefer to continue chewing tobacco but do not due to the cancer issue: there have been several guys in our community die from chewing tobacco cancers and it is the most horrific thing ever.  Still, if I did not have a family, I would have kept chewing and simply had some type of 'accident' if diagnosed with one of these nasty cancers.  That's probli a bit too real for most folks but, oh well.

My biggest problem with this site is how the main ideology behind this site is that you are an addict FOREVER; there is no hope, you can never be cured, you could start chewing at any moment, there is nothing you can do about it, etc., etc.  When I first read that on this site, I was really depressed and kept right on chewing.  Didn't visit the site anymore. But I thought about it for awhile and thought, ya know, that's a bullshit, hippie, 1980's, depressing, atheistic, woe-is-me attitude.

I don't do drugs.  When I was in high school, I did them when I went to parties, which was the majority of the time.  I grew up.  When an old friend from high school came home to visit 3 years ago from Atlanta, she and I smoked out back, much to my wife's dismay.  I didn't really want to but had never smoked with this person and gave it a try: it had been about 2 years since I had smoked weed before that.  I ended up hating being high and paranoid and, of course, have not touched any since.

For some reason, say 4 years ago, I quit buying beer, going to the bar and partying. Just stopped with no real explanation.  I think right now there may be two beers in the fridge.  The last time I had a beer was about 5 weeks ago.  The last time I was drunk was about a year and a half ago.

Now I will admit I was a raging alcoholic.  Up until 5 years ago.  I was also a pothead until I turned 20 and the world I was in (the beef show cattle world) looked down on that type of thing so I ditched it.  Basically, I grew out of my addictions.  I did not REMAIN an addict to this day.  If I get drunk, I do not turn back into a raging alcholic and binge drink for 6 months straight and have to check into rehab.  Neither will you: that's simply stupid.

Same thing if I smoke some green.  This will probli not happen since I really can't stand smoking the shit anymore but if I chose to, I would NOT start smoking it every day.  As far as any other substance, I'm not real worried cuz I think they are pointless and dangerous. 

Point is, I grew up.  Same reason I think I quit chewing: yes, it sucks but how many professional photographers do you know that sport a big old chaw while taking your HS senior's portrait?  Not many.  Same thing: I am growing out of it (thank the Lord, thought it would never happen.)

And once I realized all of this, I returned to killthecan.org and went to the alternative chew section of the site (the only useful part of the site, in my mind.) I found Smokey Mountain chew was sold at Wal-Mart, made a quick trip to the local store and picked up a bunch of tins and began mixing dips til my tin of Longhorn was gone beginning of January.

Now I'm addicted to SMC and that sucks but at least the biggest worry I now have is cavities from the excessive amounts of molasses.  However, just wanted folks at this site to know that, IMO, I think it is silly to perpetrate the idea that if I have another dip in my life, I will instantly be driving to the 7-11 to buy a tin and be hooked, just like that again.  It's been about 7 yeas since I quite smoking.  In that time, I bet I have had about 10 cigarettes.  I never did buy a pack of smokes in that time or take up smoking again.  But, every now and then, I had a cigarette.  Now?  Can't stand the smell.  Just outgrew it.

This idea that you are always a HOPELESS addict and nothing can ever change it is absolutely ridiculous, childish and counterproductive.  This idea was brought about by schlock psychology in the eighties and I do not understand WHY it has stuck but if you do some research on modern thinking on the subject, the general concesus has changed since subjects and quitters reports do not match the supposed theories of yesteryear.

So, for those who have bought into this notion that you will ALWAYS be addicted to chew, it's simply not true.  You could have a dip later in life and be just fine.  You probli should not have one while you are transitioning to a non-tobacco lifestyle: that would probli help you backslide.  But, a year or 2 down the road, you will probably be able to have a dip from a friend, savor it and not have another for a long time and be just fine with it.  If you choose to back to chewing tobacco, that would be a pretty irresponsible choice but it is your choice.  In my experience, however, no addiction is strong enough (save for cocaine, heroin, or other hardcore drugs) to have a hold like that over a years time.  It is different for everyone but part of folks problems might be this stupid fallacy that if you put the magic tobacco plant back in your lip, you'll immediately go buy another log right away.  Simply not true.

Id also be weary of anyone selling that idea.  Because they probably have some sort of help they want to sell you.  Like non-tobacco chews.

Not saying there is anything wrong with quitting (praise the Lord!) but just think about it.  Everyone is looking to make a buck.  What kind of quit is it if you have to stay a member of a website for 20 years to ensure you don't start chewing tobacco again.  Is that really a quit you own or killthecan.org owns?  That's my 2 cents, go ahead and flame on me all ya want.

I call it as I see it.  And, for me personally, your site made me want to give up and keep on chewing.  The little voice of reason (Holy Spirit) that said your site was full of shit and didn't quite get the full picture.  Since I listened to the latter voice, I have now been nicotine free for 4 weeks, something I have never accomplished in over 15 years.

God is good.

Wish you luck pal,unfortunately lbj is wired a little different see ,I can't have just one.
Interesting read though. 'Popcorn'

Day 30 is about the time that you get "tired" of quitting, and start searching for normalcy. It's very common to see some flailing, and it's very common to see somebody declare "victory".

Day 30 is a drop in the bucket to a quit, and you've got a long way to go.

Tell you what...You quit your way, and I'll quit mine. Catch me in days quit (I'm at 950), and I'll try out your method. Otherwise, I'm sticking to what has worked for me and thousands others that have walked these halls here.

Oh, and read up on the rules of addiction. I expect a full report.

[lbj]

Okay, first time using the forums and, I gotta say, kind of odd forum that does not allow members to start new topics.  Can tell I won't be spending much time here.  Too bad, kind of a uniques site but, oh well.

Anyway, ended up finding this site at the end of 2013 and quit chewing in the beginning of January.  This weekend, Feb 7 2014, will be 4 weeks without dipping.

This was only possible with Smokey Mountain chew my local Wal-Mart sells.  Not real sure what made me finally quit: I am 30.  I have chewed since I was 15.

I really hate not chewing tobacco, my life was much better when I was chewing it.  Me and my wife do nothing but fight now, I have gained about 15 more pounds since quitting and I feel like shit all day. The crap folks have posted on this site about things improving are pretty much bullshit to me but perhaps it is different for each individual.

I would prefer to continue chewing tobacco but do not due to the cancer issue: there have been several guys in our community die from chewing tobacco cancers and it is the most horrific thing ever.  Still, if I did not have a family, I would have kept chewing and simply had some type of 'accident' if diagnosed with one of these nasty cancers.  That's probli a bit too real for most folks but, oh well.

My biggest problem with this site is how the main ideology behind this site is that you are an addict FOREVER; there is no hope, you can never be cured, you could start chewing at any moment, there is nothing you can do about it, etc., etc.  When I first read that on this site, I was really depressed and kept right on chewing.  Didn't visit the site anymore. But I thought about it for awhile and thought, ya know, that's a bullshit, hippie, 1980's, depressing, atheistic, woe-is-me attitude.

I don't do drugs.  When I was in high school, I did them when I went to parties, which was the majority of the time.  I grew up.  When an old friend from high school came home to visit 3 years ago from Atlanta, she and I smoked out back, much to my wife's dismay.  I didn't really want to but had never smoked with this person and gave it a try: it had been about 2 years since I had smoked weed before that.  I ended up hating being high and paranoid and, of course, have not touched any since.

For some reason, say 4 years ago, I quit buying beer, going to the bar and partying. Just stopped with no real explanation.  I think right now there may be two beers in the fridge.  The last time I had a beer was about 5 weeks ago.  The last time I was drunk was about a year and a half ago.

Now I will admit I was a raging alcoholic.  Up until 5 years ago.  I was also a pothead until I turned 20 and the world I was in (the beef show cattle world) looked down on that type of thing so I ditched it.  Basically, I grew out of my addictions.  I did not REMAIN an addict to this day.  If I get drunk, I do not turn back into a raging alcholic and binge drink for 6 months straight and have to check into rehab.  Neither will you: that's simply stupid.

Same thing if I smoke some green.  This will probli not happen since I really can't stand smoking the shit anymore but if I chose to, I would NOT start smoking it every day.  As far as any other substance, I'm not real worried cuz I think they are pointless and dangerous. 

Point is, I grew up.  Same reason I think I quit chewing: yes, it sucks but how many professional photographers do you know that sport a big old chaw while taking your HS senior's portrait?  Not many.  Same thing: I am growing out of it (thank the Lord, thought it would never happen.)

And once I realized all of this, I returned to killthecan.org and went to the alternative chew section of the site (the only useful part of the site, in my mind.) I found Smokey Mountain chew was sold at Wal-Mart, made a quick trip to the local store and picked up a bunch of tins and began mixing dips til my tin of Longhorn was gone beginning of January.

Now I'm addicted to SMC and that sucks but at least the biggest worry I now have is cavities from the excessive amounts of molasses.  However, just wanted folks at this site to know that, IMO, I think it is silly to perpetrate the idea that if I have another dip in my life, I will instantly be driving to the 7-11 to buy a tin and be hooked, just like that again.  It's been about 7 yeas since I quite smoking.  In that time, I bet I have had about 10 cigarettes.  I never did buy a pack of smokes in that time or take up smoking again.  But, every now and then, I had a cigarette.  Now?  Can't stand the smell.  Just outgrew it.

This idea that you are always a HOPELESS addict and nothing can ever change it is absolutely ridiculous, childish and counterproductive.  This idea was brought about by schlock psychology in the eighties and I do not understand WHY it has stuck but if you do some research on modern thinking on the subject, the general concesus has changed since subjects and quitters reports do not match the supposed theories of yesteryear.

So, for those who have bought into this notion that you will ALWAYS be addicted to chew, it's simply not true.  You could have a dip later in life and be just fine.  You probli should not have one while you are transitioning to a non-tobacco lifestyle: that would probli help you backslide.  But, a year or 2 down the road, you will probably be able to have a dip from a friend, savor it and not have another for a long time and be just fine with it.  If you choose to back to chewing tobacco, that would be a pretty irresponsible choice but it is your choice.  In my experience, however, no addiction is strong enough (save for cocaine, heroin, or other hardcore drugs) to have a hold like that over a years time.  It is different for everyone but part of folks problems might be this stupid fallacy that if you put the magic tobacco plant back in your lip, you'll immediately go buy another log right away.  Simply not true.

Id also be weary of anyone selling that idea.  Because they probably have some sort of help they want to sell you.  Like non-tobacco chews.

Not saying there is anything wrong with quitting (praise the Lord!) but just think about it.  Everyone is looking to make a buck.  What kind of quit is it if you have to stay a member of a website for 20 years to ensure you don't start chewing tobacco again.  Is that really a quit you own or killthecan.org owns?  That's my 2 cents, go ahead and flame on me all ya want.

I call it as I see it.  And, for me personally, your site made me want to give up and keep on chewing.  The little voice of reason (Holy Spirit) that said your site was full of shit and didn't quite get the full picture.  Since I listened to the latter voice, I have now been nicotine free for 4 weeks, something I have never accomplished in over 15 years.

God is good.

Wish you luck pal,unfortunately lbj is wired a little different see ,I can't have just one.
Interesting read though. 'Popcorn'

[tarpon17]

Take what you need, leave the rest...........

[nsterken]

Okay, first time using the forums and, I gotta say, kind of odd forum that does not allow members to start new topics. Can tell I won't be spending much time here. Too bad, kind of a uniques site but, oh well.

Anyway, ended up finding this site at the end of 2013 and quit chewing in the beginning of January. This weekend, Feb 7 2014, will be 4 weeks without dipping.

This was only possible with Smokey Mountain chew my local Wal-Mart sells. Not real sure what made me finally quit: I am 30. I have chewed since I was 15.

I really hate not chewing tobacco, my life was much better when I was chewing it. Me and my wife do nothing but fight now, I have gained about 15 more pounds since quitting and I feel like shit all day. The crap folks have posted on this site about things improving are pretty much bullshit to me but perhaps it is different for each individual.

I would prefer to continue chewing tobacco but do not due to the cancer issue: there have been several guys in our community die from chewing tobacco cancers and it is the most horrific thing ever. Still, if I did not have a family, I would have kept chewing and simply had some type of 'accident' if diagnosed with one of these nasty cancers. That's probli a bit too real for most folks but, oh well.

My biggest problem with this site is how the main ideology behind this site is that you are an addict FOREVER; there is no hope, you can never be cured, you could start chewing at any moment, there is nothing you can do about it, etc., etc. When I first read that on this site, I was really depressed and kept right on chewing. Didn't visit the site anymore. But I thought about it for awhile and thought, ya know, that's a bullshit, hippie, 1980's, depressing, atheistic, woe-is-me attitude.

I don't do drugs. When I was in high school, I did them when I went to parties, which was the majority of the time. I grew up. When an old friend from high school came home to visit 3 years ago from Atlanta, she and I smoked out back, much to my wife's dismay. I didn't really want to but had never smoked with this person and gave it a try: it had been about 2 years since I had smoked weed before that. I ended up hating being high and paranoid and, of course, have not touched any since.

For some reason, say 4 years ago, I quit buying beer, going to the bar and partying. Just stopped with no real explanation. I think right now there may be two beers in the fridge. The last time I had a beer was about 5 weeks ago. The last time I was drunk was about a year and a half ago.

Now I will admit I was a raging alcoholic. Up until 5 years ago. I was also a pothead until I turned 20 and the world I was in (the beef show cattle world) looked down on that type of thing so I ditched it. Basically, I grew out of my addictions. I did not REMAIN an addict to this day. If I get drunk, I do not turn back into a raging alcholic and binge drink for 6 months straight and have to check into rehab. Neither will you: that's simply stupid.

Same thing if I smoke some green. This will probli not happen since I really can't stand smoking the shit anymore but if I chose to, I would NOT start smoking it every day. As far as any other substance, I'm not real worried cuz I think they are pointless and dangerous.

Point is, I grew up. Same reason I think I quit chewing: yes, it sucks but how many professional photographers do you know that sport a big old chaw while taking your HS senior's portrait? Not many. Same thing: I am growing out of it (thank the Lord, thought it would never happen.)

And once I realized all of this, I returned to killthecan.org and went to the alternative chew section of the site (the only useful part of the site, in my mind.) I found Smokey Mountain chew was sold at Wal-Mart, made a quick trip to the local store and picked up a bunch of tins and began mixing dips til my tin of Longhorn was gone beginning of January.

Now I'm addicted to SMC and that sucks but at least the biggest worry I now have is cavities from the excessive amounts of molasses. However, just wanted folks at this site to know that, IMO, I think it is silly to perpetrate the idea that if I have another dip in my life, I will instantly be driving to the 7-11 to buy a tin and be hooked, just like that again. It's been about 7 yeas since I quite smoking. In that time, I bet I have had about 10 cigarettes. I never did buy a pack of smokes in that time or take up smoking again. But, every now and then, I had a cigarette. Now? Can't stand the smell. Just outgrew it.

This idea that you are always a HOPELESS addict and nothing can ever change it is absolutely ridiculous, childish and counterproductive. This idea was brought about by schlock psychology in the eighties and I do not understand WHY it has stuck but if you do some research on modern thinking on the subject, the general concesus has changed since subjects and quitters reports do not match the supposed theories of yesteryear.

So, for those who have bought into this notion that you will ALWAYS be addicted to chew, it's simply not true. You could have a dip later in life and be just fine. You probli should not have one while you are transitioning to a non-tobacco lifestyle: that would probli help you backslide. But, a year or 2 down the road, you will probably be able to have a dip from a friend, savor it and not have another for a long time and be just fine with it. If you choose to back to chewing tobacco, that would be a pretty irresponsible choice but it is your choice. In my experience, however, no addiction is strong enough (save for cocaine, heroin, or other hardcore drugs) to have a hold like that over a years time. It is different for everyone but part of folks problems might be this stupid fallacy that if you put the magic tobacco plant back in your lip, you'll immediately go buy another log right away. Simply not true.

Id also be weary of anyone selling that idea. Because they probably have some sort of help they want to sell you. Like non-tobacco chews.

Not saying there is anything wrong with quitting (praise the Lord!) but just think about it. Everyone is looking to make a buck. What kind of quit is it if you have to stay a member of a website for 20 years to ensure you don't start chewing tobacco again. Is that really a quit you own or killthecan.org owns? That's my 2 cents, go ahead and flame on me all ya want.

I call it as I see it. And, for me personally, your site made me want to give up and keep on chewing. The little voice of reason (Holy Spirit) that said your site was full of shit and didn't quite get the full picture. Since I listened to the latter voice, I have now been nicotine free for 4 weeks, something I have never accomplished in over 15 years.

God is good.

[Kdip]

see introductions for Joe8183

[Its_Got2Happen]

Hey there. Are you here as a guest? Are checking out the site and thinking about quitting the dip? Are you wondering if you can actually do it for real this time?

YOU CAN! You are not here by accident. You have come to the right place. Dump your stash and start RIGHT NOW. Post on here if you need any help finding your way around the site.

[Idaho Spuds]

NICE HEADER!

GO Seahawks!

[Nolaq]

NICE HEADER!