Addiction & lies

[luby]

I think it is time to hear from admin..... Lots of you know me, I am not a drama guy, and I want everyone quit. But Scott should not be a member here. HE POSTED ROLL WHILE USING. It is that simple. How do we know that his day three wasn't posted with a dip in. I can name dozens if not hundreds of quitters who post everyday and I can trust them.
I said it before and I will say it again, I am at 676 this is still a fight for me I get dip dreams and I wake up terrified not because I failed (that sucks but failure is a part of life) I wake up with a pit in my stomach because the part that makes these dreams a nightmare is letting down my brothers of KTC, this is life and death to me, my brothers here help save my life everyday and I will do the same for them. If I can't trust their promise this site is cheapened. I will do whatever I can to make KTC stronger and if that means voicing an unpopular opinion I will do that.

[G]

There is a point to all of this, actually...


Where I was going with this was that there are certain methods that work here on this site..

We are all addicts.

Addicts lie to cover their addiction.. We lie to others, but more importantly we lie to ourselves..

Harsh methods are sometimes required to pull the mask off.. To blow away the smoke screen.. To show the lies for what they are. Actually, harsh methods are usually required.. And really the harsh method that destroys the web of self deception is the more compassionate method.. Because it brings out the truth and makes the deception clear.

When we coddle someone, we are not doing them any favors. We are only perpetuating the self-deception. A man will not quit until you can show the addiction for what it is.

Nicotine withdrawl will not kill you. DTs from alcohol withdrawl can kill you, but nicotine withdrawl will not. It just makes you wish that it could

No one forces the tobacco in our mouths. We make excuses. My girlfriend left me. My dog died, I lost my job. Whatever.. None of these are reasons to continue using tobacco. Even a tornado is not a reason to go back to tobacco. Sounds hard core.

It is...

Why? Which of these things are actually improved by tobacco? Any of them? No.. It just adds guilt to an already bad situation. It just makes it one more day you are enslaved.

"Well I needed that to get through this problem.." Total garbage.. It creates its own need.

A man will not quit until you show the addiction for what it is.. Enslaving self-deception. Once you do that, once he feels the sting.. And he has to feel the sting, by the way... Once you do that he will get a taste of true freedom.. Once he gets even a glimmer that he has the self control to stay off of this stuff, and he will gladly and even vehemently renounce tobacco and then do whatever is necessary to never do it again.

Anything short of that is self-deception...

The harsh treatment is not because we hate scottmacek the person.. We hate the person that tobacco turns scottmacek into. It turns him into a lying sack of self deceptive bullshit.

Right now he probably thinks I'm the biggest unfeeling discompassionate asshole that ever lived..

I am.. to the nicotine controlled scottmacek..

But if he ever becomes the "free from nicotine controlled by an unsotted clear thinking brain" scottmacek, he will thank me...

Does this even begin to make sense to you?

So then, are you really doing him a favor by perpetuating his self-deceptive lies?

Make him come clean! Be his real friend! Or would you rather see him with his jaw half-eaten away by cancer, no tongue, and a tumor growing around his brainstem as it slowly drags him down to the grave?

Discompassionate?

I think not. No, I'd rather be the asshole now than read his obituary later, thank you.

Nice post.

Bottom line: this isn't a bakery...we don't sugarcoat shit. It's too important and wouldn't do any good anyway. It wouldn't help you, me, new people peeking in on this thread trying to get the courage to quit, or, most importantly, Mr. Macek.

[wmcatty]

This has turned into one of the most volatile forums on the entire KTC site. Since everyone knows the history by now, it seems that it should be decided by Administrators. I thought the Moderators could ban someone, but was incorrect. I asked and was informed “A banning is voted on by all 7 administrators. If there is a majority, then a ban occurs.” I also have been informed tonight by another moderator that “sometimes the best thing an admin/mod can do is let the class teach itself.” I reviewed the August roll and found that 37 quitters has signed roll today, including Scott. While I certainly am not a statistician, I would expect that 10% of that group even knows what’s going on in this thread. Do these 4-5 men qualify as a class? Can they teach themselves or their peers a lesson learned here? I do not have an answer to that, but considering their relatively new quit status I would doubt it.
Unlike most of you, I have many more miles under my ass than you. That does not make me smarter, wiser, or better informed, although my little grandson would disagree. What it does provide me is that little bit of insight to know that Chris Daniels was right…this shit has to stop. We are a good group of men and women in a unique position to be able to better ourselves and help those struggling to do the same. We are a family. Like most families, disagreements surface from time to time, but we deal with them and do not let it tear the family apart. The Scott issue is tearing this family apart. A couple of good men want to leave the family. We are cussing one another. Hostilities are spoken with reverence. We are basically agreeing to disagree with one another. This is like a cancer in and of itself and needs to stop before it spreads further. I am going to roll the boards in a few minutes and am putting forth a direct question of the day that will be easily answered with a “Yes” or a “No”. I posted the same QOD in February through August Quit groups, but SpartanRon took offense at the question and deleted it from the May group saying it was too divisive for him. I encourage all of you to post up, answer the QOD truthfully, and let Administration know where you stand on the issue of Scott. It is my understanding they are closely monitoring this situation and should hear the will of the entire KTC community. I apologize for any previous posts I have made here today if you were offended by them. If you were, toughen your hide and suck it up. See ya at roll.

[Romandog]

There is a point to all of this, actually...


Where I was going with this was that there are certain methods that work here on this site..

We are all addicts.

Addicts lie to cover their addiction.. We lie to others, but more importantly we lie to ourselves..

Harsh methods are sometimes required to pull the mask off.. To blow away the smoke screen.. To show the lies for what they are. Actually, harsh methods are usually required.. And really the harsh method that destroys the web of self deception is the more compassionate method.. Because it brings out the truth and makes the deception clear.

When we coddle someone, we are not doing them any favors. We are only perpetuating the self-deception. A man will not quit until you can show the addiction for what it is.

Nicotine withdrawl will not kill you. DTs from alcohol withdrawl can kill you, but nicotine withdrawl will not. It just makes you wish that it could

No one forces the tobacco in our mouths. We make excuses. My girlfriend left me. My dog died, I lost my job. Whatever.. None of these are reasons to continue using tobacco. Even a tornado is not a reason to go back to tobacco. Sounds hard core.

It is...

Why? Which of these things are actually improved by tobacco? Any of them? No.. It just adds guilt to an already bad situation. It just makes it one more day you are enslaved.

"Well I needed that to get through this problem.." Total garbage.. It creates its own need.

A man will not quit until you show the addiction for what it is.. Enslaving self-deception. Once you do that, once he feels the sting.. And he has to feel the sting, by the way... Once you do that he will get a taste of true freedom.. Once he gets even a glimmer that he has the self control to stay off of this stuff, and he will gladly and even vehemently renounce tobacco and then do whatever is necessary to never do it again.

Anything short of that is self-deception...

The harsh treatment is not because we hate scottmacek the person.. We hate the person that tobacco turns scottmacek into. It turns him into a lying sack of self deceptive bullshit.

Right now he probably thinks I'm the biggest unfeeling discompassionate asshole that ever lived..

I am.. to the nicotine controlled scottmacek..

But if he ever becomes the "free from nicotine controlled by an unsotted clear thinking brain" scottmacek, he will thank me...

Does this even begin to make sense to you?

So then, are you really doing him a favor by perpetuating his self-deceptive lies?

Make him come clean! Be his real friend! Or would you rather see him with his jaw half-eaten away by cancer, no tongue, and a tumor growing around his brainstem as it slowly drags him down to the grave?

Discompassionate?

I think not. No, I'd rather be the asshole now than read his obituary later, thank you.

[jake frawley]

All this bull shit needs to stop one way or another..... I can see no possible good out come here, for no one. This shit is going to keep up until it no longer is what it was. So everyone please just STOP.

Thank you! We all need to get off this thread. We are allies, here for the same reason. And I am watching this issue turn good people against each other. The back and forth name calling is bullshit. No one is gonna change any ones mind. Im still a new guy and no one cares what I think, But I spend ALOT of time reading all of your guys posts and threads. And I see positivity and support everywhere except this post. Lets get back to that! Some of us will support Scott and some wont. Lets not let that issue divide us and make us lose focus on our purpose for being here. We are all quit today! And God willing we will ALL post roll tomorrow!

Sorry. I'm "that guy" who likes to get the last word in. I'm off this thread as I believe the law of diminishing returns is setting in. Unless someone calls me an asshole or something. Then ill probably have to say something. LOL.

Whats the law of diminishing returns?

Never mind I googled it... lol... your right

[jake frawley]

All this bull shit needs to stop one way or another..... I can see no possible good out come here, for no one. This shit is going to keep up until it no longer is what it was. So everyone please just STOP.

Thank you! We all need to get off this thread. We are allies, here for the same reason. And I am watching this issue turn good people against each other. The back and forth name calling is bullshit. No one is gonna change any ones mind. Im still a new guy and no one cares what I think, But I spend ALOT of time reading all of your guys posts and threads. And I see positivity and support everywhere except this post. Lets get back to that! Some of us will support Scott and some wont. Lets not let that issue divide us and make us lose focus on our purpose for being here. We are all quit today! And God willing we will ALL post roll tomorrow!

Sorry. I'm "that guy" who likes to get the last word in. I'm off this thread as I believe the law of diminishing returns is setting in. Unless someone calls me an asshole or something. Then ill probably have to say something. LOL.

Whats the law of diminishing returns?

[Diesel2112]

All this bull shit needs to stop one way or another..... I can see no possible good out come here, for no one. This shit is going to keep up until it no longer is what it was. So everyone please just STOP.

Thank you! We all need to get off this thread. We are allies, here for the same reason. And I am watching this issue turn good people against each other. The back and forth name calling is bullshit. No one is gonna change any ones mind. Im still a new guy and no one cares what I think, But I spend ALOT of time reading all of your guys posts and threads. And I see positivity and support everywhere except this post. Lets get back to that! Some of us will support Scott and some wont. Lets not let that issue divide us and make us lose focus on our purpose for being here. We are all quit today! And God willing we will ALL post roll tomorrow!

Sorry. I'm "that guy" who likes to get the last word in. I'm off this thread as I believe the law of diminishing returns is setting in. Unless someone calls me an asshole or something. Then ill probably have to say something. LOL.

[Diesel2112]

I'm quit with my group...that includes scott...yeah the support i got was great...mainly from russell and a handful of others...i'm good with them...but most of them are either staying away from this topic because it doesn't concern them or supporting this young man.  Those are the people i'm here for...diesel you sound like a bitter woman who has been cheated on....so blow it out YOUR ass....and by the way, that come back was in style in the 80's....so really FUCK OFF

Fuck of eh? LOL. OH NO, That hurt my feelings. I might leave this site now, because I'm a little pussy.

MAN THE FUCK UP PEOPLE!!!!!!!!!!!!

And, yeah dick weed, the comeback was in the style of the 80's in response to your reference of "real nice Clark..." which I believe was a a movie from the 80's correct??? National Lampoons Family Vacation??? Moron.

Dick weed? Moron? Sounds like you got as much respect as you gave...just sayin.

Yeah. Someone tells me to fuck off...Im not the type to hold my tongue. Sorry.

This after him calling vets out for not supporting Scotty. This directly ties into lack of respect for the vets.

Thanks for proving my point..

[jake frawley]

All this bull shit needs to stop one way or another..... I can see no possible good out come here, for no one. This shit is going to keep up until it no longer is what it was. So everyone please just STOP.

Thank you! We all need to get off this thread. We are allies, here for the same reason. And I am watching this issue turn good people against each other. The back and forth name calling is bullshit. No one is gonna change any ones mind. Im still a new guy and no one cares what I think, But I spend ALOT of time reading all of your guys posts and threads. And I see positivity and support everywhere except this post. Lets get back to that! Some of us will support Scott and some wont. Lets not let that issue divide us and make us lose focus on our purpose for being here. We are all quit today! And God willing we will ALL post roll tomorrow!

[wastepanel]

that come back was in style in the 80's...

So Jayd...

Since we are on a roll here, and since you are such an experienced badass...

What was wrong with the 80s that you think today is so good in comparison?

I lived through both.. Was probably your age back then..

What have you got to point to today? Justin Beiber (or Bieber or however you spell it)?

'Popcorn'

Yeah i am a bit younger....31...but i have no fucking clue what you are talking about. Do you want to know what music i listen too? do you want to know my heros?

Ok, johnny cash, george jones, willie nelson, jamey johnson. Won't let my daughter listen to bieber...

don't think ive ever claimed to be an experienced badass...i think i'm a little more experienced in showing compassion then some...

and what was wrong with the 80's....besides hair bands and crack cocain nothing man....that was the decade i was born so no complaints...

Oh good. We're on band likes.

I spent most of my day listening to dead Kennedys and social distortion at work, but I'm all over the place on my music tastes. Fucking loved metal and was just telling my sister how I met korn years ago at lallapalooza and got punched in the nose (while on MTV news). Met guys from slipknot and anthrax last summer when we snuck backstage at a concert. Traveled 6 hours to see thrice in Chicago last year as well and ended up hanging out with singer at a bar.

[jayd41]

that come back was in style in the 80's...

So Jayd...

Since we are on a roll here, and since you are such an experienced badass...

What was wrong with the 80s that you think today is so good in comparison?

I lived through both.. Was probably your age back then..

What have you got to point to today? Justin Beiber (or Bieber or however you spell it)?

'Popcorn'

Yeah i am a bit younger....31...but i have no fucking clue what you are talking about. Do you want to know what music i listen too? do you want to know my heros?

Ok, johnny cash, george jones, willie nelson, jamey johnson. Won't let my daughter listen to bieber...

don't think ive ever claimed to be an experienced badass...i think i'm a little more experienced in showing compassion then some...

and what was wrong with the 80's....besides hair bands and crack cocain nothing man....that was the decade i was born so no complaints...

[dchogs]

some thoughts:

1. if you look to the top left of the page, right under "Kill the Can" there's a little link called Board Guidelines. Click on it and you'll find:

2) Multiple aliases will not be tolerated. Violators will be banned immediately

not sure why scotty wasn't banned in the first place, and frankly i don't care.


2. interesting observation, diesel (about newbs having shit all figured out and lecturing vets)... i had the same thought. hell, i still feel like i don't have this quitting thing down perfectly and need the collective help of KTC. i've always looked to the "real" vets for guidance and wisdom, and i don't see that changing. it strikes me as ironic that a old timer of 54 with AA experience and 15 days of nicotine quitting is telling me how to quit tobacco and that my 737 day quit is somehow more shallow than his.


3. if you guys want to love and support scotty, go right ahead. knock yourselves out. i couldn't care less. if the admin team wants him around, whatever. not that i've been all that active in groups other than mine lately, but i will not be supporting or reading August 13. i don't care to have scotty involved in my quit in any way shape or form.


4. while i will no longer be participating in scotty's clusterfuck stoppage of august 13, i do support KTC, and frankly i feel a little responsible for the state of things. i haven't been around and really have no right to bitch about how these newbs are being educated. i'm 1000% sure there are some sweet, rock-solid quitters that would make chewie proud, but damn, i'm really surprised at the coddling, the enabling, and the all around soft nature of things in here. there is a place for a firm line in the sand, for hard truths, and for harsh words.


5. i've seen guys cave after 100 days. i've seen guys cave after a year. i've seen guys with a comma come back and post a day 1. the second that you start thinking that you have this thing under control and figured out is the very second that you start forgetting. the second you start forgetting is the second you start allowing the nic bitch to reel you in. always be vigilant. burn your boats. never again, not for any reason. pride cometh before the fall, and pride cometh before every cave.

i'm out of here. pm me if you want to chat. i'm headed back to the monastery of August 11.

[cdaniels]

All this bull shit needs to stop one way or another..... I can see no possible good out come here, for no one. This shit is going to keep up until it no longer is what it was. So everyone please just STOP.

[wmcatty]

I'm quit with my group...that includes scott...yeah the support i got was great...mainly from russell and a handful of others...i'm good with them...but most of them are either staying away from this topic because it doesn't concern them or supporting this young man.  Those are the people i'm here for...diesel you sound like a bitter woman who has been cheated on....so blow it out YOUR ass....and by the way, that come back was in style in the 80's....so really FUCK OFF

Fuck of eh? LOL. OH NO, That hurt my feelings. I might leave this site now, because I'm a little pussy.

MAN THE FUCK UP PEOPLE!!!!!!!!!!!!

And, yeah dick weed, the comeback was in the style of the 80's in response to your reference of "real nice Clark..." which I believe was a a movie from the 80's correct??? National Lampoons Family Vacation??? Moron.

Dick weed? Moron? Sounds like you got as much respect as you gave...just sayin.

[Diesel2112]

After reading, and in some cases re-reading, the posts in this thread, I have not been able to come to any logical conclusion as to what the consensus of the members or moderators is.  It is agreed that Scott really screwed the pooch in the past.  He lied about using tobacco when he posted roll.  He caved on several occasions.  He has infuriated a lot of members by posting roll the past 3 days in the August 2013 Quit Group.  By all accounts, he has answered the 3 golden questions and tried to atone to his brothers here at KTC for his past transgressions.  This seems to be the place where everything else goes to hell in a hand basket.  I tried to encapsulate the essence of each of the more “vocal” posts about this matter and state them as follows:

Skoal Monster would prefer that Scott go elsewhere.
Morgan1 agrees with Skoal Monster.
Seth will leave KTC if Administration allows Scott to stay on KTC.
Jhaenel23 was very cognizant of the seriousness of the infractions.
Jost2brown feels that support is actually enabling.
Gmann would not roll out the red carpet and questioned if Wastepanel was sucking off Scott.
Wastepanel said KTC forgives past mistakes and questioned if Gmann was still on his knee pads.
Diesel was so upset he even told a new August Quitter to blow it out his ass.
Kana is supportive of anyone who quits the nicotine.
Romandog recommended that Scott go elsewhere to quit. He is also ready to leave KTC.
Scott is taking his lumps and posted Day 3 today, apparently telling his adversaries to fuck off.

And My Favorite Of All---jayd41.  He is a 2 week quitter in August and already has 87 posts.  He has some big cods, stands his ground, believes in his convictions and says that he has met men in jail that are more respectful than some of the members on this site.  He does not know Scott but told him that he fucked up…and he would support Scott in his quit.  Then he was evidently offended by something that Diesel said and told Diesel that he sounded like a bitter old woman and he could blow it out his ass…and then told him to fuck off!  Pretty ballsy for a guy with just 14 days under his belt.

If I missed some of the rants, I apologize from the depths of my heart.  If my words offend you, avert your eyesÂ…it is that simple.  So, it looks like we gained one new quitter in Scott and have possibly lost two in Seth  Romandog.  In any event, the saga will probably continue as more members voice their agreement, support or distain for Scott reappearing after his repeated failures. Let it continue as far as I am concerned, as I enjoy reading the posts and wondering who the hell takes some of those big egos for a walk each day.  Adios and stay quit.

This has to be by far one of the best posts IÂ’ve seen on KTC! Nice work Catty!

Been watching this thread as well for a day and think, WTF IS THIS about? \

I am 15 days + 1hr, and 20 minutes into my quit.

I am a 54 old man, been around the block for quite a while.

What I see in this thread is the statements of a bunch of self anointed divas and insecure man babies.
In AA we call ya'll 2 steppers. Look it up.

if the ranting anger is what you people call recovery, Good luck in your quit, cause that is ALL you have. IF your QUIT IS based on FEAR and Anger, then Good Luck.

ya'll give one little ol' slipper this much power over YOUR QUIT, then YOUR QUIT is pretty fucking shallow. Seems there are a lot of people who are consumed by the actions this one fucking pigeon, you've given him a lot of time. IF you base YOUR recovery on the actions of one person, you are not going to survive. Resenting this guy which some of you do it going to bleed you and make you crave like a fucking big dog.

Some of ya'll may be quit today, some of you may be 100 days or beyond, your collective anger IS a problem for the "group", terrorizing one sorry arsed remorse filled addict, and brow beating this poor sot into a state of mush. Ya'll need to be proud of yourselves.

I DON'T want some of you self important pricks have. If your QUIT is based on fear and anger then your lives have to be pretty fucking hollow.

I do not think you will find too many quits based on fear or anger in here. What you will find are some people who do not condone or forgive the actions of someone willing to display utter disdain and contempt for the integrity of this site. Stay longer than 15 days and you will see cavers returned to the fold with little more than an appeal to answer a few simple questions. Maybe some grief, especially from ones who have been personally invested in their quit, but they will be forgiven if they are honest and want to be quit.

How people can fail to see the seriousness of what he has done is beyond me. Maybe some of you are still foggy? Scott does not weaken my quit, he made a mockery of this site and a fool of himself in doing so. I am not angry, not afraid, and also not willing to accept his word. In the end that is for his group to decide anyway. If they want to invest in his quit, more power to them and him. I think he should have a forced asterisk next to every roll call post. You know, because he felt like it was OK to post roll with a dip in while his group was legitimately struggling with their addiction.

Couldn't agree more sleestak. A lot of nerve to tell us "anoited divas and man nannies"why we are quitting. Also, this isn't fucking AA. This is KTC.ORG.