Addiction & lies

[AppleJack]

Grace is a powerful force. It is a profoundly undeserved gift or favor. I think, maybe, a little has been bestowed on you. You can't, and won't, ever earn it but... You can WORK to be worthy of the sacrifice grace is.

[J2b]

I did not mean to stir all of this crap up.  And I certainly did not mean to disrespect anyone by coming back.  My best chance of quitting forever is to be part of this community.  I will continue to post roll to show that I am quit.  I am going to be quiet in the thread now because only my actions in posting roll every day will speak.  I will NEVER again post roll while using.  And NEVER post under a different name.  Everyone knows my story.  If I fuck up, you will know.  But I'm not going to.

I don't know nothing 'bout no never-evers.

One day at a time, Scott. If you stick to that, all the other stuff - your quit, your role here, and other people's view of you - will fall into place by itself.

Scott, just to pile on

I will NEVER again post roll while using

Well no shit. If you really want to get to the root of it here, the answer lies in your mindset. You need to get the OPTION of using again out of your head.

NEVER AGAIN. FOR ANY REASON.

Its real simple to do.

1) Post Roll.
2) Keep your word.
3) Repeat.

Make posting roll the first thing you do every day, taking the option of using right off the table. Cant post yourself? get a number and have them post you up. Once your name is on the line you have given your word.

Now, most here wont believe your word for some time- if ever (myself included). You know what though? This quit is about you. So in essence, if you give your word and use you are really just lying to yourself, which is an awful thing to do. In the end, you have to be able to look yourself (and maybe wife and kids?) in the eye.

I strongly suggest you do some reading on this site this weekend. The stories of struggle and triumph, of brotherhood are everywhere. As are the tales of failure. Both provide the roadmap to success.

I cannot trust your word, but you damn sure should be able to go 24 hrs without lying to yourself. Then each morning when you wake up you can choose to give your word or not.

[OneImpressiveBall]

I did not mean to stir all of this crap up. And I certainly did not mean to disrespect anyone by coming back. My best chance of quitting forever is to be part of this community. I will continue to post roll to show that I am quit. I am going to be quiet in the thread now because only my actions in posting roll every day will speak. I will NEVER again post roll while using. And NEVER post under a different name. Everyone knows my story. If I fuck up, you will know. But I'm not going to.

I don't know nothing 'bout no never-evers.

One day at a time, Scott. If you stick to that, all the other stuff - your quit, your role here, and other people's view of you - will fall into place by itself.

[luby]

For all the bs, drama and crap spewed in this intro thread it should be required reading for all of KTC and for sure the noobs. There are numerous awesome quitters posting about the importance of accountability, the life and death nature of addicition and many other topic that would strengthen any quit. I know reading thru much of this and seeing the opinions expressed by quitters
I really respect has made me appreciate what we have here even more and made my quit stronger.

[nebraskadad58]

I did not mean to stir all of this crap up. And I certainly did not mean to disrespect anyone by coming back. My best chance of quitting forever is to be part of this community. I will continue to post roll to show that I am quit. I am going to be quiet in the thread now because only my actions in posting roll every day will speak. I will NEVER again post roll while using. And NEVER post under a different name. Everyone knows my story.  If I fuck up, you will know. But I'm not going to.

Scott

My 2 cents, I am grateful you are here and said what you said. in this post, it is a testament to KTC.

God willing and the creek don't rise, we can see each other in the 100 Day HOF.

[Radman]

I did not mean to stir all of this crap up.  And I certainly did not mean to disrespect anyone by coming back.  My best chance of quitting forever is to be part of this community.  I will continue to post roll to show that I am quit.  I am going to be quiet in the thread now because only my actions in posting roll every day will speak.  I will NEVER again post roll while using.  And NEVER post under a different name.  Everyone knows my story.  If I fuck up, you will know.  But I'm not going to.

Actions do speak louder than words. If you weren't banned for the infraction, post quietly and prove us "hardasses" wrong. That's honestly the only path I see out of your situation. Maybe build a personal relationship with some quitters near you. I mean face-to-face, "I've met that dude" kind of stuff. Maybe that will build some integrity.

I did not mean to stir all of this crap up.

Really? You obviously didn't understand how seriously some of us take this place. Life and death..... just that simple. Not sure anybody even read my previous heartfelt post in this thread. Maybe I just wasted my emotion.

[scottmacek]

I did not mean to stir all of this crap up. And I certainly did not mean to disrespect anyone by coming back. My best chance of quitting forever is to be part of this community. I will continue to post roll to show that I am quit. I am going to be quiet in the thread now because only my actions in posting roll every day will speak. I will NEVER again post roll while using. And NEVER post under a different name. Everyone knows my story. If I fuck up, you will know. But I'm not going to.

[DeanTheCoot]

Oh, and here's the answer to everything: Focus on yourself and your quit, and on the people at KTC who are doing the same. That WILL NOT fail you.

The people who join this community and don't "get" it were never going to help you - or themselves - anyway. So it doesn't matter if they miss roll, cave or lie.

Yes, on the surface, it spoils the sanctity of KTC. But the guy who posts roll while dipping never regarded KTC as sacred in the first place. Which means he doesn't exist. Which means this entire thread doesn't exist. Which means I took far too much LSD in the early 1990s.

[DeanTheCoot]

After reading, and in some cases re-reading, the posts in this thread, I have not been able to come to any logical conclusion as to what the consensus of the members or moderators is. It is agreed that Scott really screwed the pooch in the past. He lied about using tobacco when he posted roll. He caved on several occasions. He has infuriated a lot of members by posting roll the past 3 days in the August 2013 Quit Group. By all accounts, he has answered the 3 golden questions and tried to atone to his brothers here at KTC for his past transgressions. This seems to be the place where everything else goes to hell in a hand basket. I tried to encapsulate the essence of each of the more “vocal” posts about this matter and state them as follows:

Skoal Monster would prefer that Scott go elsewhere.
Morgan1 agrees with Skoal Monster.
Seth will leave KTC if Administration allows Scott to stay on KTC.
Jhaenel23 was very cognizant of the seriousness of the infractions.
Jost2brown feels that support is actually enabling.
Gmann would not roll out the red carpet and questioned if Wastepanel was sucking off Scott.
Wastepanel said KTC forgives past mistakes and questioned if Gmann was still on his knee pads.
Diesel was so upset he even told a new August Quitter to blow it out his ass.
Kana is supportive of anyone who quits the nicotine.
Romandog recommended that Scott go elsewhere to quit. He is also ready to leave KTC.
Scott is taking his lumps and posted Day 3 today, apparently telling his adversaries to fuck off.

And My Favorite Of All---jayd41. He is a 2 week quitter in August and already has 87 posts. He has some big cods, stands his ground, believes in his convictions and says that he has met men in jail that are more respectful than some of the members on this site. He does not know Scott but told him that he fucked upÂ…and he would support Scott in his quit. Then he was evidently offended by something that Diesel said and told Diesel that he sounded like a bitter old woman and he could blow it out his assÂ…and then told him to fuck off! Pretty ballsy for a guy with just 14 days under his belt.

If I missed some of the rants, I apologize from the depths of my heart. If my words offend you, avert your eyesÂ…it is that simple. So, it looks like we gained one new quitter in Scott and have possibly lost two in Seth  Romandog. In any event, the saga will probably continue as more members voice their agreement, support or distain for Scott reappearing after his repeated failures. Let it continue as far as I am concerned, as I enjoy reading the posts and wondering who the hell takes some of those big egos for a walk each day. Adios and stay quit.

This is one of my favorite posts ever. Thanks, dood.

[jhaenel23]

There is a point to all of this, actually...


Where I was going with this was that there are certain methods that work here on this site..

We are all addicts.

Addicts lie to cover their addiction.. We lie to others, but more importantly we lie to ourselves..

Harsh methods are sometimes required to pull the mask off.. To blow away the smoke screen.. To show the lies for what they are. Actually, harsh methods are usually required.. And really the harsh method that destroys the web of self deception is the more compassionate method.. Because it brings out the truth and makes the deception clear.

When we coddle someone, we are not doing them any favors. We are only perpetuating the self-deception. A man will not quit until you can show the addiction for what it is.

Nicotine withdrawl will not kill you. DTs from alcohol withdrawl can kill you, but nicotine withdrawl will not. It just makes you wish that it could

No one forces the tobacco in our mouths. We make excuses. My girlfriend left me. My dog died, I lost my job. Whatever.. None of these are reasons to continue using tobacco. Even a tornado is not a reason to go back to tobacco. Sounds hard core.

It is...

Why? Which of these things are actually improved by tobacco? Any of them? No.. It just adds guilt to an already bad situation. It just makes it one more day you are enslaved.

"Well I needed that to get through this problem.." Total garbage.. It creates its own need.

A man will not quit until you show the addiction for what it is.. Enslaving self-deception. Once you do that, once he feels the sting.. And he has to feel the sting, by the way... Once you do that he will get a taste of true freedom.. Once he gets even a glimmer that he has the self control to stay off of this stuff, and he will gladly and even vehemently renounce tobacco and then do whatever is necessary to never do it again.

Anything short of that is self-deception...

The harsh treatment is not because we hate scottmacek the person.. We hate the person that tobacco turns scottmacek into. It turns him into a lying sack of self deceptive bullshit.

Right now he probably thinks I'm the biggest unfeeling discompassionate asshole that ever lived..

I am.. to the nicotine controlled scottmacek..

But if he ever becomes the "free from nicotine controlled by an unsotted clear thinking brain" scottmacek, he will thank me...

Does this even begin to make sense to you?

So then, are you really doing him a favor by perpetuating his self-deceptive lies?

Make him come clean! Be his real friend! Or would you rather see him with his jaw half-eaten away by cancer, no tongue, and a tumor growing around his brainstem as it slowly drags him down to the grave?

Discompassionate?

I think not. No, I'd rather be the asshole now than read his obituary later, thank you.

Nice post.

Bottom line: this isn't a bakery...we don't sugarcoat shit. It's too important and wouldn't do any good anyway. It wouldn't help you, me, new people peeking in on this thread trying to get the courage to quit, or, most importantly, Mr. Macek.

Solid Post! 'clap'

There are other options out there. Find one that works for you Scott. Even if you think that the KTC works for you.....Im sorry, there is no place here for you. Post roll all you want.. It has no meaning here. We are not throwing you out in the cold, you are the one who put yourself there.

J

[RAZD611]

There is a point to all of this, actually...


Where I was going with this was that there are certain methods that work here on this site..

We are all addicts.

Addicts lie to cover their addiction.. We lie to others, but more importantly we lie to ourselves..

Harsh methods are sometimes required to pull the mask off.. To blow away the smoke screen.. To show the lies for what they are. Actually, harsh methods are usually required.. And really the harsh method that destroys the web of self deception is the more compassionate method.. Because it brings out the truth and makes the deception clear.

When we coddle someone, we are not doing them any favors. We are only perpetuating the self-deception. A man will not quit until you can show the addiction for what it is.

Nicotine withdrawl will not kill you. DTs from alcohol withdrawl can kill you, but nicotine withdrawl will not. It just makes you wish that it could

No one forces the tobacco in our mouths. We make excuses. My girlfriend left me. My dog died, I lost my job. Whatever.. None of these are reasons to continue using tobacco. Even a tornado is not a reason to go back to tobacco. Sounds hard core.

It is...

Why? Which of these things are actually improved by tobacco? Any of them? No.. It just adds guilt to an already bad situation. It just makes it one more day you are enslaved.

"Well I needed that to get through this problem.." Total garbage.. It creates its own need.

A man will not quit until you show the addiction for what it is.. Enslaving self-deception. Once you do that, once he feels the sting.. And he has to feel the sting, by the way... Once you do that he will get a taste of true freedom.. Once he gets even a glimmer that he has the self control to stay off of this stuff, and he will gladly and even vehemently renounce tobacco and then do whatever is necessary to never do it again.

Anything short of that is self-deception...

The harsh treatment is not because we hate scottmacek the person.. We hate the person that tobacco turns scottmacek into. It turns him into a lying sack of self deceptive bullshit.

Right now he probably thinks I'm the biggest unfeeling discompassionate asshole that ever lived..

I am.. to the nicotine controlled scottmacek..

But if he ever becomes the "free from nicotine controlled by an unsotted clear thinking brain" scottmacek, he will thank me...

Does this even begin to make sense to you?

So then, are you really doing him a favor by perpetuating his self-deceptive lies?

Make him come clean! Be his real friend! Or would you rather see him with his jaw half-eaten away by cancer, no tongue, and a tumor growing around his brainstem as it slowly drags him down to the grave?

Discompassionate?

I think not. No, I'd rather be the asshole now than read his obituary later, thank you.

'clap'

[RAZD611]

that come back was in style in the 80's...

So Jayd...

Since we are on a roll here, and since you are such an experienced badass...

What was wrong with the 80s that you think today is so good in comparison?

I lived through both.. Was probably your age back then..

What have you got to point to today? Justin Beiber (or Bieber or however you spell it)?

'Popcorn'

Yeah i am a bit younger....31...but i have no fucking clue what you are talking about. Do you want to know what music i listen too? do you want to know my heros?

Ok, johnny cash, george jones, willie nelson, jamey johnson. Won't let my daughter listen to bieber...

don't think ive ever claimed to be an experienced badass...i think i'm a little more experienced in showing compassion then some...

and what was wrong with the 80's....besides hair bands and crack cocain nothing man....that was the decade i was born so no complaints...

Oh good. We're on band likes.

I spent most of my day listening to dead Kennedys and social distortion at work, but I'm all over the place on my music tastes. Fucking loved metal and was just telling my sister how I met korn years ago at lallapalooza and got punched in the nose (while on MTV news). Met guys from slipknot and anthrax last summer when we snuck backstage at a concert. Traveled 6 hours to see thrice in Chicago last year as well and ended up hanging out with singer at a bar.

Groopie 'crackup'

[Mcarmo44]

Scott really screwed up, but this site is not a democracy. I've seen 2 others banned here in my time and believe it kills the Admins to do it, because it cuts off a life line to someone who needs help, which is the whole purpose of this site. Should Scott go, maybe, but maybe it should be his decision. The emotion shows how invested people are in this site and that is what makes this site work, the new guys may not get it yet but they will remember this and the serious ones will get involved. This is a life and death choice you make everyday.

Drama on this site has many purposes, sometimes when you are new you need a distraction, you need someone to hate so your anger doesn't spill into your normal life, sometimes its is to show everyone else "Hey you better never do this," and yes I will bet sometimes "Vet's" need drama too. It is also a way to teach. We are not addicts by accident, there is probably a pattern of addiction and enabling in all our lives. Don't mistake tough love for being an "asshole." This site is based on accountability, part of that comes from not being able to lie to one another because we all know all the tricks, we've all told all the lies. The two things that are asked 1) Don't post roll while using, 2) Don't use multiple screen names Scott broke both of those, he needs to prove himself again and time will be the biggest test.

The last thing is don't ever let someone threaten to leave. No one made you come here, no one but you and your own actions can make you leave here. Unfortunately at times I have seen drama used as a reason to walk away from the accountability here. I am sorry but I call bullshit, I may not agree with every post or every person on here but that's life, the foundation of my quit is still this site. I post roll every morning because it works.

[Its_Got2Happen]

'Popcorn'

[Phil16]

This has turned into one of the most volatile forums on the entire KTC site.  Since everyone knows the history by now, it seems that it should be decided by Administrators.  I thought the Moderators could ban someone, but was incorrect.  I asked and was informed “A banning is voted on by all 7 administrators. If there is a majority, then a ban occurs.”  I also have been informed tonight by another moderator that “sometimes the best thing an admin/mod can do is let the class teach itself.”  I reviewed the August roll and found that 37 quitters has signed roll today, including Scott.  While I certainly am not a statistician, I would expect that 10% of that group even knows what’s going on in this thread.  Do these 4-5 men qualify as a class? Can they teach themselves or their peers a lesson learned here?  I do not have an answer to that, but considering their relatively new quit status I would doubt it.
Unlike most of you, I have many more miles under my ass than you.  That does not make me smarter, wiser, or better informed, although my little grandson would disagree.  What it does provide me is that little bit of insight to know that Chris Daniels was right…this shit has to stop.  We are a good group of men and women in a unique position to be able to better ourselves and help those struggling to do the same.  We are a family.  Like most families, disagreements surface from time to time, but we deal with them and do not let it tear the family apart.  The Scott issue is tearing this family apart.  A couple of good men want to leave the family.  We are cussing one another.  Hostilities are spoken with reverence.  We are basically agreeing to disagree with one another.      I posted the same QOD in February through August Quit groups, but SpartanRon took offense at the question and deleted it from the May group saying it was too divisive for him.  I encourage all of you to post up, answer the QOD truthfully, and let Administration know where you stand on the issue of Scott. It is my understanding they are closely monitoring this situation and should hear the will of the entire KTC community.  I apologize for any previous posts I have made here today if you were offended by them.  If you were, toughen your hide and suck it up.  See ya at roll.

"This is like a cancer in and of itself and needs to stop before it spreads further."

*I agree, as do most reasonable people. But your very next sentence...

"I am going to roll the boards in a few minutes and am putting forth a direct question of the day that will be easily answered with a “Yes” or a “No”."

How will this end the "cancer"? Based on this thread alone, this is certainly not a y/n question. Admin doesn't need our unsolicited advice. They are not elected politicians, admin are quitters who are in charge of shaping the vision and culture of this site for the purpose of "killing the can". I trust them. By posting this question all over you are spreading The cancer. Now quitters in those quit groups who was unaware of all this bs, could get wrapped up in reading this thread. I'm no doctor, but it seems to me if you have an infection or cancer, the best way to handle it is to isolate it and then expose it to chemo. By the way, none of us are doctors, let's leave admin decisions to admin. Also, my Daily promise is not based on the integrity of anyone else's promise. In no way does what Scott did however long ago affect what I promised to april13 today.

Scott...You can do it. You are not the sum of your past mistakes, you have chose to quit. Stay quit today.