Introduction

[JGlav]

Just posted this in one of the new groups. My perspective on the three questions. This is just my take, there are definitely other valid reasons and some valid objections. Take what you need and leave the rest.

There are a few practical reasons for the questions.

1) To get the caver thinking about what happened. The tools to stay quit are here at KTC and the point of this site is to help us get truly quit, not just stop for a while. Cavers need to face the reason for why they failed. Understanding that failure in depth and in detail will help them to build a plan for success going forward.

2) To help the caver build that plan. Answering those questions to the public forum allows others the chance to identify potential pitfalls and help cavers develop tools that will keep them quit for the long haul. Admittedly, the public forum leads to some tough language and name calling, but the end goal is to put that caver on the right path.

3) To rebuild trust. A caver joining a new group is asking a whole bunch of struggling strangers to support him/ her. If that caver can't come in willing to buy in to the system, show that he/ she is aware of why that failure happened and what he/ she is willing to do to change, then why should anyone in that new group go out of his/her way to help or care about that caver? Everyone is struggling mightily with his/her own quit and if a caver wants their support, he/ she needs to show that he/ she is worth it.

4) To penalize the cave. This can be uncomfortable, but this is a zero tolerance system. For most of us, any leniency or give in the system would lead to rationalizing a cave. This is foundational. There are many carrots here, but this is the stick. No one wants to be called names and for many, that example  the threat of that shame will keep them clean. It's not necessarily about that one individual, but for those watching.

5) To help everyone to move forward. If weak-ass answers/ none at all, are just left sitting out there, then inevitably someone will call that person out after every post he/ she makes - there is a responsibility to hold people accountable. If someone wants the support that this site offers, he/ she has to abide by the established policies.

The rules here didn't come about by accident. They evolved over many years and are based in practical application. The fact is, we are addicts and addicts will take advantage of any weakness in the structure to justify caving. So allowing this to slide does a disservice to the caver, but also is foundationally detrimental to the system here.

It continues to amaze me how many people put so much time in to help another person out in their quit. Love this site for that reason and thanks for your diligence.

[pky1520]

Just posted this in one of the new groups. My perspective on the three questions. This is just my take, there are definitely other valid reasons and some valid objections. Take what you need and leave the rest.

There are a few practical reasons for the questions.

1) To get the caver thinking about what happened. The tools to stay quit are here at KTC and the point of this site is to help us get truly quit, not just stop for a while. Cavers need to face the reason for why they failed. Understanding that failure in depth and in detail will help them to build a plan for success going forward.

2) To help the caver build that plan. Answering those questions to the public forum allows others the chance to identify potential pitfalls and help cavers develop tools that will keep them quit for the long haul. Admittedly, the public forum leads to some tough language and name calling, but the end goal is to put that caver on the right path.

3) To rebuild trust. A caver joining a new group is asking a whole bunch of struggling strangers to support him/ her. If that caver can't come in willing to buy in to the system, show that he/ she is aware of why that failure happened and what he/ she is willing to do to change, then why should anyone in that new group go out of his/her way to help or care about that caver? Everyone is struggling mightily with his/her own quit and if a caver wants their support, he/ she needs to show that he/ she is worth it.

4) To penalize the cave. This can be uncomfortable, but this is a zero tolerance system. For most of us, any leniency or give in the system would lead to rationalizing a cave. This is foundational. There are many carrots here, but this is the stick. No one wants to be called names and for many, that example  the threat of that shame will keep them clean. It's not necessarily about that one individual, but for those watching.

5) To help everyone to move forward. If weak-ass answers/ none at all, are just left sitting out there, then inevitably someone will call that person out after every post he/ she makes - there is a responsibility to hold people accountable. If someone wants the support that this site offers, he/ she has to abide by the established policies.

The rules here didn't come about by accident. They evolved over many years and are based in practical application. The fact is, we are addicts and addicts will take advantage of any weakness in the structure to justify caving. So allowing this to slide does a disservice to the caver, but also is foundationally detrimental to the system here.

[pky1520]

Pky, I just now saw this page. You're a tremendous leader to myself and the rest of August. Keep slaying the nic bitch.

Every once in a while a great leader shows up at KTC. Someone who helps themself by throwing everything they've got into helping others. You are one of those guys.

Right after HOF is a challenging time. No big milestone to look forward to and usually some crazy in the individual groups. Don't change a thing - you are doing great, and there is an insane amount of upside ahead. You like where you are now? Just wait... One day at a time!

Thanks for the words guys. Before coming to KTC I was a hopeless failure at quitting. The more active I am in here the stronger I am out there. It is still one day at a time, sometimes still moment to moment.

Thanks for helping to keep me steady!

[worktowin]

Pky, I just now saw this page. You're a tremendous leader to myself and the rest of August. Keep slaying the nic bitch.

Every once in a while a great leader shows up at KTC. Someone who helps themself by throwing everything they've got into helping others. You are one of those guys.

Right after HOF is a challenging time. No big milestone to look forward to and usually some crazy in the individual groups. Don't change a thing - you are doing great, and there is an insane amount of upside ahead. You like where you are now? Just wait... One day at a time!

[Hawps]

Pky, I just now saw this page. You're a tremendous leader to myself and the rest of August. Keep slaying the nic bitch.

[CowMus]

Congrats!!!!! I enjoyed reading your HOF speech.
I'm proud to be in the August quit group with such a fine quitter.

CowMus

[FISHFLORIDA]

Congrats on that first milestone pky! You've earned it and should be damn proud of how far you've come in the first 100 days! 'band' 'wave' 'party2'

Congratulations! 'party2' 'chew2' 'booby' keep it up!

Congrats on 100 days PKY. Your one BAQ!

Congrats p k y on your 100 days!
Enjoy it and we'll see you tomorrow for some of the same!

You're one solid badass quitter! Keep doing what you're doing! Paying it forward, giving advice support, that's the way it's supposed to be done! Damn proud of you and you should hold your head high and smile helluva an accomplishment for any addict. Quit on, it's what we do!

Absolutely frickin awesome

[pab1964]

Congrats on that first milestone pky! You've earned it and should be damn proud of how far you've come in the first 100 days! 'band' 'wave' 'party2'

Congratulations! 'party2' 'chew2' 'booby' keep it up!

Congrats on 100 days PKY. Your one BAQ!

Congrats p k y on your 100 days!
Enjoy it and we'll see you tomorrow for some of the same!

You're one solid badass quitter! Keep doing what you're doing! Paying it forward, giving advice support, that's the way it's supposed to be done! Damn proud of you and you should hold your head high and smile helluva an accomplishment for any addict. Quit on, it's what we do!

[ChickDip]

Congrats on that first milestone pky! You've earned it and should be damn proud of how far you've come in the first 100 days! 'band' 'wave' 'party2'

Congratulations! 'party2' 'chew2' 'booby' keep it up!

Congrats on 100 days PKY. Your one BAQ!

Congrats p k y on your 100 days!
Enjoy it and we'll see you tomorrow for some of the same!

[Mike1966]

Congrats on that first milestone pky! You've earned it and should be damn proud of how far you've come in the first 100 days! 'band' 'wave' 'party2'

Congratulations! 'party2' 'chew2' 'booby' keep it up!

Congrats on 100 days PKY. Your one BAQ!

[Idaho Spuds]

Congrats on that first milestone pky! You've earned it and should be damn proud of how far you've come in the first 100 days! 'band' 'wave' 'party2'

Congratulations! 'party2' 'chew2' 'booby' keep it up!

[KingNothing]

Congrats on that first milestone pky! You've earned it and should be damn proud of how far you've come in the first 100 days! 'band' 'wave' 'party2'

[Mike1966]

I got a ton of texts and support this weekend, so first of all thanks for that! The party was great - BBQ, sporting clays, fishing, pontoon boat, cold beer and old friends. Dog (the one in my avatar) got to swim all day and the whole thing was completely drama free.

Guys were smoking and dipping, but mostly respectful of me not partaking. It was helpful to have my brother there, who is a year and a half quit. He actually was a lurker on KTC, but never got on a roll.

One buddy left a half full tin of Grizzly in my truck, and I happily threw that shit away when I found it.

To stay clean and still have a blast this weekend, I pulled out all the stops and used all of the tools at my disposal. I dug in deep here. I asked for accountability from people at this site, informed my friends ahead of time, posted my promise and made sure that I always had a can of the fake around as a last resort. To be clear, this is not me bragging about how good I think I am at quitting. This is me pointing out that the tools  the method is here and at your disposal.

I see a lot of caves that come from drinking, peer pressure, triggers, etc. If you use the tools that are here and extremely accessible, you can come through any situation. I encourage those on the outskirts (lurkers, ghosters, guests who haven't signed up yet) to stop taking half measures and to dive in. If you really want to quit, then you should do everything that you can to get yourself entrenched in the accountability here.

I have no doubt that the utter shitstorm that I would have faced if I caved, played a part in my decision to remain clean. It's certainly far from the only reason, but if I had expected a gentle pat on the bum and an "it's ok tiger, you tried hard at least," I would have been much more likely to give in and let go.

But even worse than having to face the big ole KTC meanie patrol, would have been having to face the folks who I've genuinely developed relationships with, people who I asked for help and who gave it. No way in hell was I going to let them down. Even though October sure can be a hoot, I damn well plan to stick around with August. Thank you from the bottom of my heart to those who sent me a note or even a kind thought this weekend.

For a while, I had viewed this weekend as THE test for me. If I could get past it, I'd never have to worry about this thing again. Well now that it's over, I have to refocus. I know that this addiction is a day to day struggle and complacency is my biggest threat. I now know that I can get through a gauntlet of triggers when I have time to prepare, but what about when something unexpected or tragic inevitably comes up? Well, I can tell you right now that if my butt is on roll and I'm still on this board and I still care about this, my chances of getting through it clean are sky high.

The tools are here folks. Use them, add to them, keep them sharp and don't let them rust.

Congrats on the Victory PKY! This post is a great example to the rest of us on how to plan for success! I'm taking notes!
Proud to be quit with you today!

[pky1520]

I got a ton of texts and support this weekend, so first of all thanks for that! The party was great - BBQ, sporting clays, fishing, pontoon boat, cold beer and old friends. Dog (the one in my avatar) got to swim all day and the whole thing was completely drama free.

Guys were smoking and dipping, but mostly respectful of me not partaking. It was helpful to have my brother there, who is a year and a half quit. He actually was a lurker on KTC, but never got on a roll.

One buddy left a half full tin of Grizzly in my truck, and I happily threw that shit away when I found it.

To stay clean and still have a blast this weekend, I pulled out all the stops and used all of the tools at my disposal. I dug in deep here. I asked for accountability from people at this site, informed my friends ahead of time, posted my promise and made sure that I always had a can of the fake around as a last resort. To be clear, this is not me bragging about how good I think I am at quitting. This is me pointing out that the tools  the method is here and at your disposal.

I see a lot of caves that come from drinking, peer pressure, triggers, etc. If you use the tools that are here and extremely accessible, you can come through any situation. I encourage those on the outskirts (lurkers, ghosters, guests who haven't signed up yet) to stop taking half measures and to dive in. If you really want to quit, then you should do everything that you can to get yourself entrenched in the accountability here.

I have no doubt that the utter shitstorm that I would have faced if I caved, played a part in my decision to remain clean. It's certainly far from the only reason, but if I had expected a gentle pat on the bum and an "it's ok tiger, you tried hard at least," I would have been much more likely to give in and let go.

But even worse than having to face the big ole KTC meanie patrol, would have been having to face the folks who I've genuinely developed relationships with, people who I asked for help and who gave it. No way in hell was I going to let them down. Even though October sure can be a hoot, I damn well plan to stick around with August. Thank you from the bottom of my heart to those who sent me a note or even a kind thought this weekend.

For a while, I had viewed this weekend as THE test for me. If I could get past it, I'd never have to worry about this thing again. Well now that it's over, I have to refocus. I know that this addiction is a day to day struggle and complacency is my biggest threat. I now know that I can get through a gauntlet of triggers when I have time to prepare, but what about when something unexpected or tragic inevitably comes up? Well, I can tell you right now that if my butt is on roll and I'm still on this board and I still care about this, my chances of getting through it clean are sky high.

The tools are here folks. Use them, add to them, keep them sharp and don't let them rust.

[pky1520]

Thanks for all the thoughts and support guys! I sent an email to the group yesterday and got mostly positive responses. Although, I do have a good idea about which one of my buddies is getting Punted first. 'nutkick'

I was thinking about it, and everyone who will be there is either a Nic user or a quitter - no civilians. So at least I'll have a few folks who know what the quit is all about.

King and Dagranger - you guys hit the nail on the head. Only I can put that garbage in my mouth.

Fish also hit the nail on the head when he said he'd torch me and everything I love with a flamethrower - all good points!

I've still got a week before the party, so I do need to focus on today (thanks Pab!).

Anyway, I'll update again as it gets closer - stay quit today all!