Day 1

[Stranger999]

I have the hardest time understanding the people in your groups 2 and 4. I get that the KTC format isn't for everyone, so I understand someone giving it a shot for a week or so, deciding that it's not for them and fading away. No harm, no foul. But I don't get the people that keep posting, but actively fight the program or just ignore protocol.

What are they getting out of this? If you aren't making contacts, getting involved and posting daily, how does this help you at all? It's like making an "X" on a calendar, except that when you forget to make the "X" the calendar yells at you.

I think procedure for the group has to be spend your time on the guys that want to get invested. If the guys on the periphery ever decide to buy in, we welcome them in, but I've learned that you can't drag someone into the quit kicking and screaming. I've got about 25 PMs hanging out there that never got answered. Oh well. If those guys don't want to get involved, I can't let that affect me.

Anyway, great analysis - I'd be interested to see what your thoughts are on the different types of caver. Keep doing what you're doing. Staying involved, keeping your intro fresh and keeping us accountable in August will continue to help with your own quit.

I've been here for 267 days and what I have gained is a network of folks who said they will help me quit and these people have my digits. I am here every morning to post roll, but if I shouldn't post roll I expect that at least one of those folks will try to track me down. The reverse is true, I try to make sure that I check on everyone in my network and I text or call then if they are missing. I've tried to make my network as large as possible so that SOMEONE will notice if I don't post roll. I've also met another KTC member in person and I plan to meet many more as my quit goes forward.

I think the key to staying quit is to invest in your quit. If one doesn't really want to quit they don't make contacts and just drift away from here. I've read a lot of caver stories here and the common theme is that they were here for a bit and they never built a network. They valued their phone number or email address more than they valued being nicotine free. They didn't want to be held accountable every day.

[medquit]

FMBM707 - thanks for the motivating words. I don't know a whole lot about the NRT industry, I just know what has been working for me for the last 22 days and that's what we're doing here. Interesting thoughts on the GroupMe, that is a theory I think we need to try out going forward.

Pky1520 - I feel like you understand exactly where I'm at. Idk if analyzing different cavers would be possible a posteriori as we would only really be able to use info from the ones who come back to KTC. A priori it would just be an exercise in exploring the psychology of addiction. I've actually seen something posted on here on the "3 steps to caving" or something like that, can't remember who posted it but I'll try to find it. It was fairly convincing to me.

Mike1966 - That's exactly what I meant. I always felt like once I stepped away for long enough, it was proof I wasn't helplessly addicted and that I could throw one in again. We do not control nicotine, it controls us.

[Mike1966]

Hey everyone, I'm a medical student who first developed an affection for nicotine in college through cigarettes. I had considered myself a "chipper" back then because I would sometimes smoke a pack in a week and sometimes it'd take me 3 months to go through one. It didn't seem to have much of a pull.

Then I discovered snus pouches. These may seem like an odd thing to get hooked on, but I think they ended up being dangerous in my case as I could use them as a surrogate to caffeine that would wear off quicker so I could study later and sleep, and they are less messy so I can use them wherever I want. Eventually I started using them during tests to increase performance, and then every time I was studying, and then every time I was at school, etc. It creeped in without me really noticing how much I started to depend on it.

I know the effects of tobacco all too well, and am confronted with it almost every day. I think that's a good thing, because I think a lot of patients I see are able to by and large ignore the reality of their use the 99.99% of the time they're not interacting with a medical professional. It's also a good thing because it's fucking emasculating to talk to a patient about their smoking habit from a position of medical authority when I don't follow the advice I'm giving.

I've gone weeks without tobacco "to see if I could do it" without much issue other than lots of sleep and irritability in the first 72 hrs, but I've noticed that after a couple of weeks when I finally start to feel like I could do without it for good, I'll end up casually going back to it as if I'd never tried it before, because the problem is I still think I'm in control. Finally admitting to myself that's not the case, and I think this site can help keep me reminded of that in the coming weeks.

Posting roll now. Good luck to everyone else on their journey.

There's been several times in the past that I've quit for a while and then told myself that I'm going to go back to dipping on MY terms, not 1 can a day, not everyday, but in moderation. Every time I've had to to face the fact, that I can't do it in moderation. After a couple of day's I'm right back to the same old habit. Reading the last paragraph of your intro made me think of that.

[pky1520]

I have the hardest time understanding the people in your groups 2 and 4. I get that the KTC format isn't for everyone, so I understand someone giving it a shot for a week or so, deciding that it's not for them and fading away. No harm, no foul. But I don't get the people that keep posting, but actively fight the program or just ignore protocol.

What are they getting out of this? If you aren't making contacts, getting involved and posting daily, how does this help you at all? It's like making an "X" on a calendar, except that when you forget to make the "X" the calendar yells at you.

I think procedure for the group has to be spend your time on the guys that want to get invested. If the guys on the periphery ever decide to buy in, we welcome them in, but I've learned that you can't drag someone into the quit kicking and screaming. I've got about 25 PMs hanging out there that never got answered. Oh well. If those guys don't want to get involved, I can't let that affect me.

Anyway, great analysis - I'd be interested to see what your thoughts are on the different types of caver. Keep doing what you're doing. Staying involved, keeping your intro fresh and keeping us accountable in August will continue to help with your own quit.

[FMBM707]

Reflections after 3 weeks

I don't really fully understand the role KTC is meant to play in one's quit just yet.

On the one hand, there are very specific expectations laid out for us. WUPP EDD. If you miss roll, you need to explain it. If you cave, an explanation is not enough, you need to go through a root-cause analysis and figure out how to prevent it from happening again. On the other hand, we are all so different from one another in too many ways to count. For one, each personal history of addiction is different, and I think that this difference and others directly impact how an individual receives KTC.

So what is the prototypical quit group SOP, then? Clearly caving is not acceptable, but short of that there is a gray area. What do you do when someone caves and really tries his/her best to answer the 3 questions multiple times, but it's just not in-depth or revelatory enough for anyone to be satisfied? What do you do when someone misses roll and doesn't offer up any sort of explanation? What do you do when someone misses roll, you manage to get a decent explanation out of them, but then they miss roll again later? What do you do when someone doesn't miss roll, but instead posts daily "status updates" (as they are mockingly called by the group)?

One of the first things I noticed when I started investing my time in KTC is the intensity. While the effectiveness of cold turkey vs NRT is heavily debated in social and professional circles, cold turkey is what KTC supports and it is undoubtedly the most intense quit method. The brotherhood and support here is intense. The hate for nicotine is intense.

Out of that intensity comes a strong sense of responsibility. I feel responsible for my quit, as well as my quit group's. So how, then, do I and everyone else in my group ensure mutual success? The problem is that KTC consists of four types of quitters:

Group 1: highly motivated to quit, highly invested in KTC
Group 2: highly motivated to quit, less invested in KTC
Group 3: less motivated to quit, highly invested in KTC
Group 4: less motivated to quit, less invested in KTC

Group 1 and 2 are obviously most likely to remain quit. The subsection of people in Group 1 who rely on KTC most heavily to stay quit (versus simply using KTC as a result of being quit; correlation doesn't necessarily equal causation here) as well as Group 3 may be negatively impacted by witnessing the lack of investment in KTC from Groups 2 and 4. Group 4 will likely cave and/or fall away quickly, and not much can be done about that anyways. Group 3 can be successful if KTC can increase their motivation to quit, but vets often remark that those who do not start out highly motivated are ultimately far less likely to remain quit long term. Switching between Group 1 and Group 2 may occur frequently and is dependent on a multitude of personal traits and other factors.

The best case scenario for a group is to have all of its members in Group 1. The most important reason is that if everyone in a group is heavily invested in both KTC and the quit, when someone misses roll it is obvious that person needs help immediately. However, when people miss roll frequently but maintain their quit and don't seem to be having any issues (Group 2), or when people wait until the end of the day to post (Group 2), it muddies the waters and makes it really difficult to determine who needs help and how badly.

No group can ever be perfect, but it seems that new groups evolve into more successful ones over time, as those who care less fade away and as those who care more get further entrenched in the ideals of KTC and in their group. I hate seeing people fade away, because some of them I'm sure went right back to nicotine and won't reflect on that decision for years to come. But I have learned to accept it. It is also frustrating because the early days of a quit are universally seen as the hardest. It is ironic, then, that the best quit groups have only formed after the most difficult days of quitting are behind them.

Med-
I've known plenty of folks who have tried using NRTs and I have yet to meet anyone who actually quit nicotine. They may have stopped using whatever nicotine vehicle (dip, cigarettes etc.) that they were using to get their fix but in everyone I've every known they all ended up going back to whatever they were originally using to get their fix or instead of cigarettes they started dipping.

Companies have spent BILLIONS of dollars researching and marketing NRTs as a viable quit method so there is plenty of 'data' supporting that if one keeps spending their money on ingesting nicotine into their body that they can quit. I wonder why these companies put that 'data' out there? Ask around, read stuff in here. How many people in KTC tried using NRTs and failed until they found KTC and the cold turkey method? I tried it years ago. Sure I stopped dipping but I chewed the shit out of that nasty nic gum until I went right back to dip.

As for the quitters. You are going to find groups like you described in all aspects of life. There's not a lot anyone can do for group 4 folks until they decide to make a change for themselves. Group 3 there's hope because if they are highly vest in KTC they must remain quit in order to remain on KTC.

For Group 2 folks the Group Me might be a better fit for them. The quit group I was with 2 years ago we had some guys who through the first 100 days or so were very active via a group app called Kakoa (like group me) but only posted and ghosted on KTC. However, after awhile some of them became more involved on KTC.

Med-
what you are doing within our group by reaching out to fellow quitters, exchanging #s, keeping the spreadsheet, updating who is missing and inviting guys to join the group me app is helping so many people stay quit. We can't save them all- they have to want it and put in the effort- we can't quit for them (group 4).

Keep up the great effort and the beginning of a great quit.

[medquit]

Reflections after 3 weeks

I don't really fully understand the role KTC is meant to play in one's quit just yet.

On the one hand, there are very specific expectations laid out for us. WUPP EDD. If you miss roll, you need to explain it. If you cave, an explanation is not enough, you need to go through a root-cause analysis and figure out how to prevent it from happening again. On the other hand, we are all so different from one another in too many ways to count. For one, each personal history of addiction is different, and I think that this difference and others directly impact how an individual receives KTC.

So what is the prototypical quit group SOP, then? Clearly caving is not acceptable, but short of that there is a gray area. What do you do when someone caves and really tries his/her best to answer the 3 questions multiple times, but it's just not in-depth or revelatory enough for anyone to be satisfied? What do you do when someone misses roll and doesn't offer up any sort of explanation? What do you do when someone misses roll, you manage to get a decent explanation out of them, but then they miss roll again later? What do you do when someone doesn't miss roll, but instead posts daily "status updates" (as they are mockingly called by the group)?

One of the first things I noticed when I started investing my time in KTC is the intensity. While the effectiveness of cold turkey vs NRT is heavily debated in social and professional circles, cold turkey is what KTC supports and it is undoubtedly the most intense quit method. The brotherhood and support here is intense. The hate for nicotine is intense.

Out of that intensity comes a strong sense of responsibility. I feel responsible for my quit, as well as my quit group's. So how, then, do I and everyone else in my group ensure mutual success? The problem is that KTC consists of four types of quitters:

Group 1: highly motivated to quit, highly invested in KTC
Group 2: highly motivated to quit, less invested in KTC
Group 3: less motivated to quit, highly invested in KTC
Group 4: less motivated to quit, less invested in KTC

Group 1 and 2 are obviously most likely to remain quit. The subsection of people in Group 1 who rely on KTC most heavily to stay quit (versus simply using KTC as a result of being quit; correlation doesn't necessarily equal causation here) as well as Group 3 may be negatively impacted by witnessing the lack of investment in KTC from Groups 2 and 4. Group 4 will likely cave and/or fall away quickly, and not much can be done about that anyways. Group 3 can be successful if KTC can increase their motivation to quit, but vets often remark that those who do not start out highly motivated are ultimately far less likely to remain quit long term. Switching between Group 1 and Group 2 may occur frequently and is dependent on a multitude of personal traits and other factors.

The best case scenario for a group is to have all of its members in Group 1. The most important reason is that if everyone in a group is heavily invested in both KTC and the quit, when someone misses roll it is obvious that person needs help immediately. However, when people miss roll frequently but maintain their quit and don't seem to be having any issues (Group 2), or when people wait until the end of the day to post (Group 2), it muddies the waters and makes it really difficult to determine who needs help and how badly.

No group can ever be perfect, but it seems that new groups evolve into more successful ones over time, as those who care less fade away and as those who care more get further entrenched in the ideals of KTC and in their group. I hate seeing people fade away, because some of them I'm sure went right back to nicotine and won't reflect on that decision for years to come. But I have learned to accept it. It is also frustrating because the early days of a quit are universally seen as the hardest. It is ironic, then, that the best quit groups have only formed after the most difficult days of quitting are behind them.

[ChristopherJ]

My Depression, My Addiction
[This may sound a bit like a HoF speech, and I suppose it is, just not for nicotine]

It occurred to me today that before joining KTC I had been ready to quit for a long time. I know how that sounds, but I truly did not want to use nicotine, and using it actually caused me a great deal of anxiety, but I just couldn't let myself quit.

Before I get into what I mean by that, for those of you who aren't aware, the rate of physician suicide is extremely high. 400 doctors, the size of an entire medical school, kill themselves every year in America. That is a rate 2-4x the national average. It would mean a great deal to me if, when you have the time, you read an article or two about the subject. Here are a few that stood out to me:

http://www.slate.com/articles/health_an ... _fear.html
https://afsp.org/our-work/education/phy ... revention/
http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2 ... ut-it.html

The medical profession is often glorified but in reality it's much like quitting. Some days you do something right, even something small, and feel like you made a real difference in someone's life. Part of you starts to think that maybe every day will be that way, and then suddenly you are doing chest compressions and watching life leave your patient's eyes as he take his last agonal breaths, and even though you and the 15 other people in the room did everything you possible could it absolutely destroys you.

I have not yet had the privilege of understanding what it means to have a life fully in my hands, but I have already experienced some of the emotional roller coaster that comes with such a responsibility. My worst moments were almost exclusively in the throes of a major depressive episode. If you aren't familiar with what major depressive disorder is, you should look it up and/or just be thankful that you haven't met the beast first-hand, because for me quitting at its worst moments is what major depression is like 24/7. What makes depression so much worse, in my opinion, is that you don't have something to blame like nicotine. Instead, depression makes you blame yourself.

I did just that, and my self-image went to absolute shit. It stayed that way even once the SSRIs started doing their job. I couldn't make relationships work, even with the most selfless of women (a busy med student's dream) because I didn't feel I deserved to have one. I stopped lifting because I just didn't feel like going anymore (anhedonia/loss of interest in activities from which one once derived pleasure). My diet tanked. I developed insomnia, which made me miss classes, which caused me to develop an anxiety about accidentally sleeping through classes, which worsened my insomnia.

I couldn't quit nicotine because I felt like I didn't deserve to quit. I was fine being addicted to that shit because I viewed myself, despite what I have accomplished in life and all that I have to be thankful for, as largely a failed human being. I could not stack up to my classmates intelligence-wise, my friends were more in shape than I was, normal people didn't have the sleep/diet/exercise issues I did, etc. Depression made me feel like nicotine was God's way of patting me on the back... "It's okay med, you fucked your life up but we have this tin to help you deal with that." If you look back to my Day 1, you'll see that I still firmly believed just a couple of weeks ago that nicotine was merely a study crutch gone wrong, that I didn't truly need it and that it sort of just seeped into my life. Now that I have some distance from it, however, I realize I have been lying to myself. I needed it. I thought it was the only "good thing" I had in my life. Many of you would say "what about family and friends?" Depression takes them away from you. It convinces you that you are not loved by your family, that you have no true friends, and that you are on your own. It isolates you and forces you to marinate in your own toxic thoughts. Only now that I am able to look back do I understand how vulnerable I was to turning to one substance or another to soothe my aching soul.

Mental illness is an awful thing. I do deserve to quit. We all do. Nicotine wasn't something I needed, just something I could use to punish myself further. With my history of depression, I don't think I will ever be truly safe from nicotine. It is a constant threat and needs to be treated as such. If the day comes when I find myself once again walling myself off from everyone I care about, I sincerely believe that the bonds I've formed here already will be strong enough to break those walls down even if I'm fighting to keep them up the whole time. KTC necessitates accountability, accountability necessitates interaction, and interaction is the key to beating depression.

On a happier note, the contrast between who I was when I was that shadow of a person and who I am now is stark. Since I posted Day 1:

- I've lost 5 lbs.
- I work out almost every day, and it's because I WANT to.
- I'm sleeping 7-9 hours a night.
- I went on a first date this weekend. We are going out again within the next week.

Thank you to KingNothing, Grievous_Angel, RDB1972 and ChristopherJ for getting me started here... I wouldn't have made it without you guys. Thank you to everyone here for helping me quit chewing, and for helping me learn to love myself again. I've missed it.

Hey Med! I sit here in front of my keyboard and I'm a bit unsure what to type or how to respond! Couple of thoughts... From what I've seen (or read) from you you seem like a awesome dude! I mean that.. I have great respect for what you are doing in your life and feel this quit will be a game changer for you!! I see much brighter days ahead for you!! Take care of yourself!!

Med, I know that I have struggled with the QUIT and during the time heading into my QUIT, it can be easy to get down on myself. Let's slay this nic bitch and be stronger and more confident for it. I too, appreciate your openness and honesty to the Brother/Sisterhood here. You were one of the first to reach out to me when I first posted and definitely feel like we are vested in this quit together. Proud to be quitting with ya! You've got my digits, I've got your back!

You've got a lot of people here supporting you Med and you've helped others in August keep there quit going. Glad to have you in August contributing like you do. Keep posting in your intro- it's helping others ( it will help you).

I wasn't aware of the risks of depression and the medical field. Thanks for sharing those stories - they helped me understand some issues with friends of mine. You describe some tough times that you worked though and what you have come to understand about yourself - including that nicotine is no help whatsoever and will actually make whatever issue even worse. We all have our battles and unfortunately, our brains our stained with nicotine addiction. KTC is here for us though, medquit, so lets keep winning!

[FMBM707]

My Depression, My Addiction
[This may sound a bit like a HoF speech, and I suppose it is, just not for nicotine]

It occurred to me today that before joining KTC I had been ready to quit for a long time. I know how that sounds, but I truly did not want to use nicotine, and using it actually caused me a great deal of anxiety, but I just couldn't let myself quit.

Before I get into what I mean by that, for those of you who aren't aware, the rate of physician suicide is extremely high. 400 doctors, the size of an entire medical school, kill themselves every year in America. That is a rate 2-4x the national average. It would mean a great deal to me if, when you have the time, you read an article or two about the subject. Here are a few that stood out to me:

http://www.slate.com/articles/health_an ... _fear.html
https://afsp.org/our-work/education/phy ... revention/
http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2 ... ut-it.html

The medical profession is often glorified but in reality it's much like quitting. Some days you do something right, even something small, and feel like you made a real difference in someone's life. Part of you starts to think that maybe every day will be that way, and then suddenly you are doing chest compressions and watching life leave your patient's eyes as he take his last agonal breaths, and even though you and the 15 other people in the room did everything you possible could it absolutely destroys you.

I have not yet had the privilege of understanding what it means to have a life fully in my hands, but I have already experienced some of the emotional roller coaster that comes with such a responsibility. My worst moments were almost exclusively in the throes of a major depressive episode. If you aren't familiar with what major depressive disorder is, you should look it up and/or just be thankful that you haven't met the beast first-hand, because for me quitting at its worst moments is what major depression is like 24/7. What makes depression so much worse, in my opinion, is that you don't have something to blame like nicotine. Instead, depression makes you blame yourself.

I did just that, and my self-image went to absolute shit. It stayed that way even once the SSRIs started doing their job. I couldn't make relationships work, even with the most selfless of women (a busy med student's dream) because I didn't feel I deserved to have one. I stopped lifting because I just didn't feel like going anymore (anhedonia/loss of interest in activities from which one once derived pleasure). My diet tanked. I developed insomnia, which made me miss classes, which caused me to develop an anxiety about accidentally sleeping through classes, which worsened my insomnia.

I couldn't quit nicotine because I felt like I didn't deserve to quit. I was fine being addicted to that shit because I viewed myself, despite what I have accomplished in life and all that I have to be thankful for, as largely a failed human being. I could not stack up to my classmates intelligence-wise, my friends were more in shape than I was, normal people didn't have the sleep/diet/exercise issues I did, etc. Depression made me feel like nicotine was God's way of patting me on the back... "It's okay med, you fucked your life up but we have this tin to help you deal with that." If you look back to my Day 1, you'll see that I still firmly believed just a couple of weeks ago that nicotine was merely a study crutch gone wrong, that I didn't truly need it and that it sort of just seeped into my life. Now that I have some distance from it, however, I realize I have been lying to myself. I needed it. I thought it was the only "good thing" I had in my life. Many of you would say "what about family and friends?" Depression takes them away from you. It convinces you that you are not loved by your family, that you have no true friends, and that you are on your own. It isolates you and forces you to marinate in your own toxic thoughts. Only now that I am able to look back do I understand how vulnerable I was to turning to one substance or another to soothe my aching soul.

Mental illness is an awful thing. I do deserve to quit. We all do. Nicotine wasn't something I needed, just something I could use to punish myself further. With my history of depression, I don't think I will ever be truly safe from nicotine. It is a constant threat and needs to be treated as such. If the day comes when I find myself once again walling myself off from everyone I care about, I sincerely believe that the bonds I've formed here already will be strong enough to break those walls down even if I'm fighting to keep them up the whole time. KTC necessitates accountability, accountability necessitates interaction, and interaction is the key to beating depression.

On a happier note, the contrast between who I was when I was that shadow of a person and who I am now is stark. Since I posted Day 1:

- I've lost 5 lbs.
- I work out almost every day, and it's because I WANT to.
- I'm sleeping 7-9 hours a night.
- I went on a first date this weekend. We are going out again within the next week.

Thank you to KingNothing, Grievous_Angel, RDB1972 and ChristopherJ for getting me started here... I wouldn't have made it without you guys. Thank you to everyone here for helping me quit chewing, and for helping me learn to love myself again. I've missed it.

Hey Med! I sit here in front of my keyboard and I'm a bit unsure what to type or how to respond! Couple of thoughts... From what I've seen (or read) from you you seem like a awesome dude! I mean that.. I have great respect for what you are doing in your life and feel this quit will be a game changer for you!! I see much brighter days ahead for you!! Take care of yourself!!

Med, I know that I have struggled with the QUIT and during the time heading into my QUIT, it can be easy to get down on myself. Let's slay this nic bitch and be stronger and more confident for it. I too, appreciate your openness and honesty to the Brother/Sisterhood here. You were one of the first to reach out to me when I first posted and definitely feel like we are vested in this quit together. Proud to be quitting with ya! You've got my digits, I've got your back!

You've got a lot of people here supporting you Med and you've helped others in August keep there quit going. Glad to have you in August contributing like you do. Keep posting in your intro- it's helping others ( it will help you).

[RDB]

My diagnosis is Major Depression (Moderate), although some days don't seem moderate. Quitting tobacco has definitely helped.

Looks as if you're stepping up as one of the leaders in August. Thanks for that.

Still proud to quit with you.

[paul-san]

My Depression, My Addiction
[This may sound a bit like a HoF speech, and I suppose it is, just not for nicotine]

It occurred to me today that before joining KTC I had been ready to quit for a long time. I know how that sounds, but I truly did not want to use nicotine, and using it actually caused me a great deal of anxiety, but I just couldn't let myself quit.

Before I get into what I mean by that, for those of you who aren't aware, the rate of physician suicide is extremely high. 400 doctors, the size of an entire medical school, kill themselves every year in America. That is a rate 2-4x the national average. It would mean a great deal to me if, when you have the time, you read an article or two about the subject. Here are a few that stood out to me:

http://www.slate.com/articles/health_an ... _fear.html
https://afsp.org/our-work/education/phy ... revention/
http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2 ... ut-it.html

The medical profession is often glorified but in reality it's much like quitting. Some days you do something right, even something small, and feel like you made a real difference in someone's life. Part of you starts to think that maybe every day will be that way, and then suddenly you are doing chest compressions and watching life leave your patient's eyes as he take his last agonal breaths, and even though you and the 15 other people in the room did everything you possible could it absolutely destroys you.

I have not yet had the privilege of understanding what it means to have a life fully in my hands, but I have already experienced some of the emotional roller coaster that comes with such a responsibility. My worst moments were almost exclusively in the throes of a major depressive episode. If you aren't familiar with what major depressive disorder is, you should look it up and/or just be thankful that you haven't met the beast first-hand, because for me quitting at its worst moments is what major depression is like 24/7. What makes depression so much worse, in my opinion, is that you don't have something to blame like nicotine. Instead, depression makes you blame yourself.

I did just that, and my self-image went to absolute shit. It stayed that way even once the SSRIs started doing their job. I couldn't make relationships work, even with the most selfless of women (a busy med student's dream) because I didn't feel I deserved to have one. I stopped lifting because I just didn't feel like going anymore (anhedonia/loss of interest in activities from which one once derived pleasure). My diet tanked. I developed insomnia, which made me miss classes, which caused me to develop an anxiety about accidentally sleeping through classes, which worsened my insomnia.

I couldn't quit nicotine because I felt like I didn't deserve to quit. I was fine being addicted to that shit because I viewed myself, despite what I have accomplished in life and all that I have to be thankful for, as largely a failed human being. I could not stack up to my classmates intelligence-wise, my friends were more in shape than I was, normal people didn't have the sleep/diet/exercise issues I did, etc. Depression made me feel like nicotine was God's way of patting me on the back... "It's okay med, you fucked your life up but we have this tin to help you deal with that." If you look back to my Day 1, you'll see that I still firmly believed just a couple of weeks ago that nicotine was merely a study crutch gone wrong, that I didn't truly need it and that it sort of just seeped into my life. Now that I have some distance from it, however, I realize I have been lying to myself. I needed it. I thought it was the only "good thing" I had in my life. Many of you would say "what about family and friends?" Depression takes them away from you. It convinces you that you are not loved by your family, that you have no true friends, and that you are on your own. It isolates you and forces you to marinate in your own toxic thoughts. Only now that I am able to look back do I understand how vulnerable I was to turning to one substance or another to soothe my aching soul.

Mental illness is an awful thing. I do deserve to quit. We all do. Nicotine wasn't something I needed, just something I could use to punish myself further. With my history of depression, I don't think I will ever be truly safe from nicotine. It is a constant threat and needs to be treated as such. If the day comes when I find myself once again walling myself off from everyone I care about, I sincerely believe that the bonds I've formed here already will be strong enough to break those walls down even if I'm fighting to keep them up the whole time. KTC necessitates accountability, accountability necessitates interaction, and interaction is the key to beating depression.

On a happier note, the contrast between who I was when I was that shadow of a person and who I am now is stark. Since I posted Day 1:

- I've lost 5 lbs.
- I work out almost every day, and it's because I WANT to.
- I'm sleeping 7-9 hours a night.
- I went on a first date this weekend. We are going out again within the next week.

Thank you to KingNothing, Grievous_Angel, RDB1972 and ChristopherJ for getting me started here... I wouldn't have made it without you guys. Thank you to everyone here for helping me quit chewing, and for helping me learn to love myself again. I've missed it.

Hey Med! I sit here in front of my keyboard and I'm a bit unsure what to type or how to respond! Couple of thoughts... From what I've seen (or read) from you you seem like a awesome dude! I mean that.. I have great respect for what you are doing in your life and feel this quit will be a game changer for you!! I see much brighter days ahead for you!! Take care of yourself!!

Med, I know that I have struggled with the QUIT and during the time heading into my QUIT, it can be easy to get down on myself. Let's slay this nic bitch and be stronger and more confident for it. I too, appreciate your openness and honesty to the Brother/Sisterhood here. You were one of the first to reach out to me when I first posted and definitely feel like we are vested in this quit together. Proud to be quitting with ya! You've got my digits, I've got your back!

[pky1520]

My Depression, My Addiction
[This may sound a bit like a HoF speech, and I suppose it is, just not for nicotine]

It occurred to me today that before joining KTC I had been ready to quit for a long time. I know how that sounds, but I truly did not want to use nicotine, and using it actually caused me a great deal of anxiety, but I just couldn't let myself quit.

Before I get into what I mean by that, for those of you who aren't aware, the rate of physician suicide is extremely high. 400 doctors, the size of an entire medical school, kill themselves every year in America. That is a rate 2-4x the national average. It would mean a great deal to me if, when you have the time, you read an article or two about the subject. Here are a few that stood out to me:

http://www.slate.com/articles/health_an ... _fear.html
https://afsp.org/our-work/education/phy ... revention/
http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2 ... ut-it.html

The medical profession is often glorified but in reality it's much like quitting. Some days you do something right, even something small, and feel like you made a real difference in someone's life. Part of you starts to think that maybe every day will be that way, and then suddenly you are doing chest compressions and watching life leave your patient's eyes as he take his last agonal breaths, and even though you and the 15 other people in the room did everything you possible could it absolutely destroys you.

I have not yet had the privilege of understanding what it means to have a life fully in my hands, but I have already experienced some of the emotional roller coaster that comes with such a responsibility. My worst moments were almost exclusively in the throes of a major depressive episode. If you aren't familiar with what major depressive disorder is, you should look it up and/or just be thankful that you haven't met the beast first-hand, because for me quitting at its worst moments is what major depression is like 24/7. What makes depression so much worse, in my opinion, is that you don't have something to blame like nicotine. Instead, depression makes you blame yourself.

I did just that, and my self-image went to absolute shit. It stayed that way even once the SSRIs started doing their job. I couldn't make relationships work, even with the most selfless of women (a busy med student's dream) because I didn't feel I deserved to have one. I stopped lifting because I just didn't feel like going anymore (anhedonia/loss of interest in activities from which one once derived pleasure). My diet tanked. I developed insomnia, which made me miss classes, which caused me to develop an anxiety about accidentally sleeping through classes, which worsened my insomnia.

I couldn't quit nicotine because I felt like I didn't deserve to quit. I was fine being addicted to that shit because I viewed myself, despite what I have accomplished in life and all that I have to be thankful for, as largely a failed human being. I could not stack up to my classmates intelligence-wise, my friends were more in shape than I was, normal people didn't have the sleep/diet/exercise issues I did, etc. Depression made me feel like nicotine was God's way of patting me on the back... "It's okay med, you fucked your life up but we have this tin to help you deal with that." If you look back to my Day 1, you'll see that I still firmly believed just a couple of weeks ago that nicotine was merely a study crutch gone wrong, that I didn't truly need it and that it sort of just seeped into my life. Now that I have some distance from it, however, I realize I have been lying to myself. I needed it. I thought it was the only "good thing" I had in my life. Many of you would say "what about family and friends?" Depression takes them away from you. It convinces you that you are not loved by your family, that you have no true friends, and that you are on your own. It isolates you and forces you to marinate in your own toxic thoughts. Only now that I am able to look back do I understand how vulnerable I was to turning to one substance or another to soothe my aching soul.

Mental illness is an awful thing. I do deserve to quit. We all do. Nicotine wasn't something I needed, just something I could use to punish myself further. With my history of depression, I don't think I will ever be truly safe from nicotine. It is a constant threat and needs to be treated as such. If the day comes when I find myself once again walling myself off from everyone I care about, I sincerely believe that the bonds I've formed here already will be strong enough to break those walls down even if I'm fighting to keep them up the whole time. KTC necessitates accountability, accountability necessitates interaction, and interaction is the key to beating depression.

On a happier note, the contrast between who I was when I was that shadow of a person and who I am now is stark. Since I posted Day 1:

- I've lost 5 lbs.
- I work out almost every day, and it's because I WANT to.
- I'm sleeping 7-9 hours a night.
- I went on a first date this weekend. We are going out again within the next week.

Thank you to KingNothing, Grievous_Angel, RDB1972 and ChristopherJ for getting me started here... I wouldn't have made it without you guys. Thank you to everyone here for helping me quit chewing, and for helping me learn to love myself again. I've missed it.

Hey Med! I sit here in front of my keyboard and I'm a bit unsure what to type or how to respond! Couple of thoughts... From what I've seen (or read) from you you seem like a awesome dude! I mean that.. I have great respect for what you are doing in your life and feel this quit will be a game changer for you!! I see much brighter days ahead for you!! Take care of yourself!!

Hey Med, this is really moving, honest and something that I know that I can relate to. There isn't a single one of us who is ONLY struggling with nicotine.

Stay focused and keep moving forward.

[Bert75]

My Depression, My Addiction
[This may sound a bit like a HoF speech, and I suppose it is, just not for nicotine]

It occurred to me today that before joining KTC I had been ready to quit for a long time. I know how that sounds, but I truly did not want to use nicotine, and using it actually caused me a great deal of anxiety, but I just couldn't let myself quit.

Before I get into what I mean by that, for those of you who aren't aware, the rate of physician suicide is extremely high. 400 doctors, the size of an entire medical school, kill themselves every year in America. That is a rate 2-4x the national average. It would mean a great deal to me if, when you have the time, you read an article or two about the subject. Here are a few that stood out to me:

http://www.slate.com/articles/health_an ... _fear.html
https://afsp.org/our-work/education/phy ... revention/
http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2 ... ut-it.html

The medical profession is often glorified but in reality it's much like quitting. Some days you do something right, even something small, and feel like you made a real difference in someone's life. Part of you starts to think that maybe every day will be that way, and then suddenly you are doing chest compressions and watching life leave your patient's eyes as he take his last agonal breaths, and even though you and the 15 other people in the room did everything you possible could it absolutely destroys you.

I have not yet had the privilege of understanding what it means to have a life fully in my hands, but I have already experienced some of the emotional roller coaster that comes with such a responsibility. My worst moments were almost exclusively in the throes of a major depressive episode. If you aren't familiar with what major depressive disorder is, you should look it up and/or just be thankful that you haven't met the beast first-hand, because for me quitting at its worst moments is what major depression is like 24/7. What makes depression so much worse, in my opinion, is that you don't have something to blame like nicotine. Instead, depression makes you blame yourself.

I did just that, and my self-image went to absolute shit. It stayed that way even once the SSRIs started doing their job. I couldn't make relationships work, even with the most selfless of women (a busy med student's dream) because I didn't feel I deserved to have one. I stopped lifting because I just didn't feel like going anymore (anhedonia/loss of interest in activities from which one once derived pleasure). My diet tanked. I developed insomnia, which made me miss classes, which caused me to develop an anxiety about accidentally sleeping through classes, which worsened my insomnia.

I couldn't quit nicotine because I felt like I didn't deserve to quit. I was fine being addicted to that shit because I viewed myself, despite what I have accomplished in life and all that I have to be thankful for, as largely a failed human being. I could not stack up to my classmates intelligence-wise, my friends were more in shape than I was, normal people didn't have the sleep/diet/exercise issues I did, etc. Depression made me feel like nicotine was God's way of patting me on the back... "It's okay med, you fucked your life up but we have this tin to help you deal with that." If you look back to my Day 1, you'll see that I still firmly believed just a couple of weeks ago that nicotine was merely a study crutch gone wrong, that I didn't truly need it and that it sort of just seeped into my life. Now that I have some distance from it, however, I realize I have been lying to myself. I needed it. I thought it was the only "good thing" I had in my life. Many of you would say "what about family and friends?" Depression takes them away from you. It convinces you that you are not loved by your family, that you have no true friends, and that you are on your own. It isolates you and forces you to marinate in your own toxic thoughts. Only now that I am able to look back do I understand how vulnerable I was to turning to one substance or another to soothe my aching soul.

Mental illness is an awful thing. I do deserve to quit. We all do. Nicotine wasn't something I needed, just something I could use to punish myself further. With my history of depression, I don't think I will ever be truly safe from nicotine. It is a constant threat and needs to be treated as such. If the day comes when I find myself once again walling myself off from everyone I care about, I sincerely believe that the bonds I've formed here already will be strong enough to break those walls down even if I'm fighting to keep them up the whole time. KTC necessitates accountability, accountability necessitates interaction, and interaction is the key to beating depression.

On a happier note, the contrast between who I was when I was that shadow of a person and who I am now is stark. Since I posted Day 1:

- I've lost 5 lbs.
- I work out almost every day, and it's because I WANT to.
- I'm sleeping 7-9 hours a night.
- I went on a first date this weekend. We are going out again within the next week.

Thank you to KingNothing, Grievous_Angel, RDB1972 and ChristopherJ for getting me started here... I wouldn't have made it without you guys. Thank you to everyone here for helping me quit chewing, and for helping me learn to love myself again. I've missed it.

Hey Med! I sit here in front of my keyboard and I'm a bit unsure what to type or how to respond! Couple of thoughts... From what I've seen (or read) from you you seem like a awesome dude! I mean that.. I have great respect for what you are doing in your life and feel this quit will be a game changer for you!! I see much brighter days ahead for you!! Take care of yourself!!

[medquit]

My Depression, My Addiction
[This may sound a bit like a HoF speech, and I suppose it is, just not for nicotine]

It occurred to me today that before joining KTC I had been ready to quit for a long time. I know how that sounds, but I truly did not want to use nicotine, and using it actually caused me a great deal of anxiety, but I just couldn't let myself quit.

Before I get into what I mean by that, for those of you who aren't aware, the rate of physician suicide is extremely high. 400 doctors, the size of an entire medical school, kill themselves every year in America. That is a rate 2-4x the national average. It would mean a great deal to me if, when you have the time, you read an article or two about the subject. Here are a few that stood out to me:

http://www.slate.com/articles/health_an ... _fear.html
https://afsp.org/our-work/education/phy ... revention/
http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2 ... ut-it.html

The medical profession is often glorified but in reality it's much like quitting. Some days you do something right, even something small, and feel like you made a real difference in someone's life. Part of you starts to think that maybe every day will be that way, and then suddenly you are doing chest compressions and watching life leave your patient's eyes as he take his last agonal breaths, and even though you and the 15 other people in the room did everything you possible could it absolutely destroys you.

I have not yet had the privilege of understanding what it means to have a life fully in my hands, but I have already experienced some of the emotional roller coaster that comes with such a responsibility. My worst moments were almost exclusively in the throes of a major depressive episode. If you aren't familiar with what major depressive disorder is, you should look it up and/or just be thankful that you haven't met the beast first-hand, because for me quitting at its worst moments is what major depression is like 24/7. What makes depression so much worse, in my opinion, is that you don't have something to blame like nicotine. Instead, depression makes you blame yourself.

I did just that, and my self-image went to absolute shit. It stayed that way even once the SSRIs started doing their job. I couldn't make relationships work, even with the most selfless of women (a busy med student's dream) because I didn't feel I deserved to have one. I stopped lifting because I just didn't feel like going anymore (anhedonia/loss of interest in activities from which one once derived pleasure). My diet tanked. I developed insomnia, which made me miss classes, which caused me to develop an anxiety about accidentally sleeping through classes, which worsened my insomnia.

I couldn't quit nicotine because I felt like I didn't deserve to quit. I was fine being addicted to that shit because I viewed myself, despite what I have accomplished in life and all that I have to be thankful for, as largely a failed human being. I could not stack up to my classmates intelligence-wise, my friends were more in shape than I was, normal people didn't have the sleep/diet/exercise issues I did, etc. Depression made me feel like nicotine was God's way of patting me on the back... "It's okay med, you fucked your life up but we have this tin to help you deal with that." If you look back to my Day 1, you'll see that I still firmly believed just a couple of weeks ago that nicotine was merely a study crutch gone wrong, that I didn't truly need it and that it sort of just seeped into my life. Now that I have some distance from it, however, I realize I have been lying to myself. I needed it. I thought it was the only "good thing" I had in my life. Many of you would say "what about family and friends?" Depression takes them away from you. It convinces you that you are not loved by your family, that you have no true friends, and that you are on your own. It isolates you and forces you to marinate in your own toxic thoughts. Only now that I am able to look back do I understand how vulnerable I was to turning to one substance or another to soothe my aching soul.

Mental illness is an awful thing. I do deserve to quit. We all do. Nicotine wasn't something I needed, just something I could use to punish myself further. With my history of depression, I don't think I will ever be truly safe from nicotine. It is a constant threat and needs to be treated as such. If the day comes when I find myself once again walling myself off from everyone I care about, I sincerely believe that the bonds I've formed here already will be strong enough to break those walls down even if I'm fighting to keep them up the whole time. KTC necessitates accountability, accountability necessitates interaction, and interaction is the key to beating depression.

On a happier note, the contrast between who I was when I was that shadow of a person and who I am now is stark. Since I posted Day 1:

- I've lost 5 lbs.
- I work out almost every day, and it's because I WANT to.
- I'm sleeping 7-9 hours a night.
- I went on a first date this weekend. We are going out again within the next week.

Thank you to KingNothing, Grievous_Angel, RDB1972 and ChristopherJ for getting me started here... I wouldn't have made it without you guys. Thank you to everyone here for helping me quit chewing, and for helping me learn to love myself again. I've missed it.

[JB65]

Wow haha what a pleasant surprise to see all these posts here!

I know the NRT thing was just me trying to convince myself it was okay to give up (lies!), and I think that happened yesterday because around 2 weeks was usually where I used to say "ok I have control I can dip now because I know I can go without it."

Breaking through the wall here I am finally in uncharted water, and I think the anxiety about that along with my other life stressors contributed to my mental frameshift. Thank you all for shifting me back.

There is a lot of power in quitting with others. I'm a 35 year addict and I certainly quit for long periods of time off and on. Saying goodbye to nicotine for good is really difficult You can do it, there are people here who have quit for years and still post roll every day. Don't get bogged down in beating "the suck". Your brain will repair eventually. Just don't ever forget what you went through to get past "the suck". In the end no one ever says that they regret quitting nicotine.

I quit with you today!

".... no one ever says they regretted quitting nicotine" That is GOLD right there.

I'm in same boat as stranger, close to 30 year dipper on and off,mostly ON. Quit several times for long stretches. This is different. ACCOUNTABILITY, BROTHERHOOD, SUCCESS.

Small victories MED. Small victories start with the daily quit promise.

At 278+ days, I am still quitting one day at a time. I realized that:

golf, shoveling snow, painting a room, fixing a bike, cutting the grass
driving, going to vegas, .... the list will go on and on

could all be done without a dip.

278+ days ago i would have said you were crazy, that i needed a chew for these things.

You'll get there. the ODAAT days begin to add up.

Proud to quit with you today.!

[Stranger999]

Wow haha what a pleasant surprise to see all these posts here!

I know the NRT thing was just me trying to convince myself it was okay to give up (lies!), and I think that happened yesterday because around 2 weeks was usually where I used to say "ok I have control I can dip now because I know I can go without it."

Breaking through the wall here I am finally in uncharted water, and I think the anxiety about that along with my other life stressors contributed to my mental frameshift. Thank you all for shifting me back.

There is a lot of power in quitting with others. I'm a 35 year addict and I certainly quit for long periods of time off and on. Saying goodbye to nicotine for good is really difficult You can do it, there are people here who have quit for years and still post roll every day. Don't get bogged down in beating "the suck". Your brain will repair eventually. Just don't ever forget what you went through to get past "the suck". In the end no one ever says that they regret quitting nicotine.

I quit with you today!