Author Topic: Boilerbates - This time, it's personal  (Read 3925 times)

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Offline Scowick65

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Re: Boilerbates - This time, it's personal
« Reply #17 on: April 23, 2011, 11:42:00 AM »
Good job! You are turning the corner. Going from, I can't do anything without my dip to, I can do everything without my dip and it is more fun. It keeps getting better. Parputt is correct in identifying some bumps in the road, but overall it just keeps getting better. Stay the course, One day at a time.  PM me if you need anything.

Offline Parputt

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Re: Boilerbates - This time, it's personal
« Reply #16 on: April 23, 2011, 11:15:00 AM »
Good job on your day 23. Get ready for some pretty bad fog and craves around the 40-60 day marks. When I hit that area of my quit I thought I had lost my mind. Crazy anxiety and just generally feeling crappy. Power through and it get's better. Today is my 101 and I have never felt better in my life. I ran 3.5 miles yesterday and still had wind left when I was done. Not bad for being 43 and not having run in over 20 years. I never had wind like I do now. I thought only smokers suffered shortness of breath.

If you are interested read my HOF speech, our stories sound very similar: index.php?showtopic=4649

If you need a swift kick in the ass, PM me any time and we can talk!
QD:  1-13-11
HOF: 4-22-11
Sobriety date: 3-4-07

One is one too many
One more is never enough


This Is My Quit

You have brains in your head. You have feet in your shoes. You can steer yourself, any direction you choose ~ Dr. Seuss

Offline Boilerbates

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Re: Boilerbates - This time, it's personal
« Reply #15 on: April 23, 2011, 11:04:00 AM »
I'm on day 23 and I have to admit that I don't think I could have done this without everyone's help.

I've noticed a few things in the last 3+ weeks...

My finger and thumb are no longer stained brown

I can smell and taste better than ever

I'm starting to sleep better through the night

Craves still suck

I don't have to worry about spilling dip cups or kids getting into them

My truck doesn't have cans falling out everytime I open the door

My truck no longer has spit streaks down the side

I can pick something out of my trash can at work without getting spit all over my hand or the object I'm pulling out...normally paper.

I can kiss my wife at any point in time.

My teeth are whiter

I don't worry about having dip stuck in my lip

I don't plan my morning or evening drive around where I have to stop and buy chew


What has taken me so long to quit?

Glad I'm here  glad you're all so welcoming and supportive.

Thanks,
Bates (boilerbates)
1st Day of Quit = April 1, 2011

Quit will triumph, because dip is dumb

Offline Greg5280

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Re: Boilerbates - This time, it's personal
« Reply #14 on: April 11, 2011, 01:43:00 PM »
Here is an article I posted awhile back on my intro page. I go back to it from time to time just to remind myself what absolute fucks the death dealers are. Hope it helps you find the anger you are looking for.

Make sure you pay attention to the tactics used by Big Tobacco... For fuck sake sending kids ( 9, 10, 11...years old ) free cans ? Making Cherry flavored tobacco with less Nic so the kids could " get used" to the product.

Hard to believe I gave those fucks as much of my money as I did.. NEVER AGAIN FOR ANY REASON !!!


Tobacco Company Pays $5M In Groundbreaking Case

Settlement is nationÂ’s first involving smokeless product
By THOMAS B. SCHEFFEY

Kelly June Hill, Executrix, et al. v. U.S. Smokeless Tobacco: The Altria Group, successor to tobacco marketer United States Smokeless Tobacco of Greenwich, has settled for $5 million a lawsuit filed by the estate of a North Carolina man who died of tongue cancer.

The worker, Bobby Hill, initially went to an Ashville, N.C., lawyer, who referred his case to BridgeportÂ’s Koskoff, Koskoff  Bieder. Partners Antonio Ponvert III and Christopher Bernard launched a state court wrongful death action in Connecticut.
From the beginning, Ponvert said, Hill and his family wanted to draw attention to the danger of “dipping snuff” and to discourage youngsters from starting its addictive use.

“It’s the first time a plaintiff has won a wrongful death chewing tobacco verdict or settlement in the history of the industry,” said Ponvert. Altria, based in Richmond, Va., also owns Philip Morris, and has a corporate policy of not settling any individual consumer cases, he added. Altria Group spokesman Steve Callahan said, “U.S. Smokeless Tobacco is honoring an agreement it made in this case prior to its acquisition by Altria….We have no current intention to settle cases like this in the future.”

Historically, the tobacco industry has fiercely defended itself in the courts. And for decades, it denied that tobacco is addictive or a health risk. More recently, it has maintained that people know the risks of tobacco and they should take personal responsibility if they use it. In the industry, a no-settlement rule is standard.

But Bobby Hill, said Ponvert, “was an almost ideal client. Bobby Hill was 13 years old when he started using. He became addicted to this product when he was a child, long before warning labels were put on [packages] in 1987.” That fact, Ponvert said, “destroyed any personal responsibility-type defense that the industry likes to use.” The defendant retained five defense firms, including New York-based Skadden, Arps, Slate, Meagher  Flohm, and Winston  Strawn, with local counsel duties handled by Wiggin and Dana, in New Haven.
Attorney David S. Golub, of StamfordÂ’s Silver, Golub  Teitel, has handled other lawsuits against the tobacco industry, and was clearly impressed by the Altria settlement.

“This is unprecedented and amazing. There has never been, to my knowledge, a time when a tobacco company has settled a case. It’s fabulous lawyering, and a wonderful result,” Golub told the Law Tribune. “Every tobacco company fights tooth and nail, because they’re afraid that if they settle one case, they can never again say they won’t settle. This is groundbreaking.”

Smokeless tobacco, or snuff, comes in small cans and is sold under brand names such as Skoal or Copenhagen. It comes in a variety of “cuts,” which describe the lengths of the tobacco strands. The tobacco sits between the user’s cheek and gum. It’s different from chewing tobacco, which is a much longer cut that is literally chewed.

One previous snuff case has gone to trial. An Oklahoma plaintiff, Sean Marsee, contracted mouth cancer in the late 1980s after five years of chewing tobacco use, and USST medical experts testified that tumors caused by “dipping snuff” took 20 years to develop. The suit seeking $147 million resulted in a defense verdict for USST.

“Bobby Hill used for 20 years, so we would have been able to use their experts in the Marsee case against them here,” said Ponvert. The attorney said the needs of Hill’s widow and two children, 11 and 14, made a settlement for $5 million seem like a wiser course than holding out for more at trial – or maybe nothing. The process of reaching the settlement stage was long and rocky, requiring extensive discovery work and research.

In a 2002 deposition, USST Chairman and CEO Louis Bantle was questioned in another case, and he explained why some 12 million documents in USST files were stamped confidential. Under oath, he conceded they didn’t contain formulas or other business secrets. “A couple of years ago,” Bantle said, “a whole lot of lawyers came to company headquarters and they stamped ‘confidential’ on every single document we had in our possession, whether they were or not.” Ponvert said discovery was challenging, “for the opposite reason one would think.” The plaintiffs “got half a million pages of documents, which made searching them quite interesting. We found some stuff that was out of this world.”

Letters From Children
Some of the most significant material, said Ponvert, was in a cache of internal correspondence from young customers, aged 9 to 18, written between1978 and 1985. “We found about 50 letters from children to the company, and children’s letters would say, `I am 9 [or 10, 11, 14 or 15] years old, and have been using your product.” The kids had complaints and suggestions. “One was, ‘Please don’t raise the price on Skoal, because I only get $5 in allowance, and can’t afford the seven cans a week that I need,’” Ponvert recounted. “They’d say, ‘I really like the mint flavor, could you make it in a different cut?’

Those letters would be sent to the United States Smokeless Tobacco headquarters in Greenwich. According to the lawyers, a letter would be back to the child saying: “Thank you for your comments. We’ll consider your suggestions, and here are five free cans of Skoal.” After it became illegal to send tobacco to children in the late 1980s, the company sent young teens complimentary can openers and lids to keep their snuff moist and fresh.

Company correspondence supported a plan to introduce candy-flavored Skoal “Bandits” to hook young customers. “Bandits” are ground tobacco and flavorings placed in a tea bag-like fabric, with less nicotine so the beginner wouldn’t get too sick, Ponvert said.

“They had this very Machiavellian strategy to entice people into the market and keep them as they became more tolerant to the drug,” he said. “It’s well known that the average age for starting to use smokeless tobacco is between 9 and 11 years old. So it’s a product that’s designed for kids, and is being used by and sold to kids.”

Altria Group obtained USST in 2009. On the Altria web site, the company emphasizes its commitment to prevent underage children from purchasing tobacco products. Its charts show the use of smoking tobacco products is declining. However, smokeless tobacco products remain popular, and may be on the rise, the charts indicate.
In some quarters, smokeless tobacco is touted as a less-lethal way to consume tobacco than smoking. But, Ponvert said, young people need to comprehend fully the potentially gruesome results.

“One of our experts described dying by mouth cancer as `death by autopsy,’” Ponvert said. “Literally, over a 10- or 12-month period, your face just falls away. At first, [Hill] lost part of his tongue. Then they took his whole tongue. Then it takes part of your jaw, and your cheeks and your gums. Then the tumor wound its way around his carotid artery and he died.” •

Offline Boilerbates

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Re: Boilerbates - This time, it's personal
« Reply #13 on: April 11, 2011, 12:05:00 PM »
ya'll are right, i have to do this for me and I will do it! Getting angry at the nasty habit is a great way of kicking the habit. Chewing tobacco is "my bitch" now.
1st Day of Quit = April 1, 2011

Quit will triumph, because dip is dumb

Offline tarpon17

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Re: Boilerbates - This time, it's personal
« Reply #12 on: April 11, 2011, 09:29:00 AM »
Quote from: bnlelliott
Quote from: Greg5280
Quote from: klark
Quote from: Boilerbates
Hello,

My name is Eric Bates.  I am 33 years old and a proud father of three kids.  My wife and I have been married for 10 years this July.  I have chewed tobacco since I was 16 years old. 

It all started in high school, with the quick marts / gas stations that would sell chew to anyone with money.  Once I hit college, it was everyday, nearly all day...no need to hide it from anyone.  After graduation, I went to work in residential construction, the perfect climate for chewing tobacco.

My hobbies are baseball (coaching), golf, camping, fishing, anything outdooors, again, the perfect environment for chewing tobacco.

I've been around chewing tobacco for a long time.  I've used it to keep from eating, I've used it to calm down, I've used it because others had, I've used it because I was bored, I've used it because it was there, I've used it because....well...because I could.  It started with Skoal Wintergreen, the Spearment, then back to Wintergreen, then Cope - Long Cut, then Rooster, then Grizzly.

Now I have to stop.  My choice.  not my wife's, mom's, brothers, grandma's, dad's, but mine. 

My reasons...
1.  Brayden (7), Addison (3) and Carter (1).  I've done well at hiding it from kids for a long time, but is it fair to them that their father sneaks around doing something that is bad for his health?  When they grow up, I don't want to be a hypocrit. 

2.  My health.  enough said.  I don't want to be the guy with no jaw, what fun would that be?

3.  To prove I can.  If I can beat this, I can do anything.

I'm currently on day 8 (quit day of 4/1/11 - my mom's birthday).  I planned this day about 25 days prior and discussed quitting with my family and my doctor.  So far it's been pretty rough.  Sunflower seeds hurt my mouth, I haven't had a good crap in a week (sorry if TMI), I eat everything in sight and I can't sleep...at all!

Sorry for the lengthy intro, I guess I had more on my mind than I thought.  Thanks for welcoming me to your community.  I know I'll be around for a long time!

-Boilerbates
While it may sound selfish, reason 2 needs to be reason 1. If you don't do this for yourself first you may end up resenting your family.

If I can do anything, let me know.
Excellent advice ! This has to be for you and only you. When it really sucks you do not want to blame the way you are feeling on someone else. This is all your fault, so accept what comes and decide no matter what you will NEVER put that shit in your face again.

Welcome to the party. Let me know if I can help.

STAY QUIT

Greg
No such thing as TMI here...by the way, rages will come, fog will get better and worse...soemtimes you'll just need to scream at someone. That's what we're here for, love that family, rage at us...we're big boys, we can take it, we've done it ourselves. All you need to do is promise us that you won't dip...and then don't dip! Need anything PM me.
And just a slight word-smithing on point #3. You can beat this and you will be able to do anything else you set your mind on. Carry on  welcome

Offline bnlelliott

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Re: Boilerbates - This time, it's personal
« Reply #11 on: April 10, 2011, 08:31:00 PM »
Quote from: Greg5280
Quote from: klark
Quote from: Boilerbates
Hello,

My name is Eric Bates.  I am 33 years old and a proud father of three kids.  My wife and I have been married for 10 years this July.  I have chewed tobacco since I was 16 years old. 

It all started in high school, with the quick marts / gas stations that would sell chew to anyone with money.  Once I hit college, it was everyday, nearly all day...no need to hide it from anyone.  After graduation, I went to work in residential construction, the perfect climate for chewing tobacco.

My hobbies are baseball (coaching), golf, camping, fishing, anything outdooors, again, the perfect environment for chewing tobacco.

I've been around chewing tobacco for a long time.  I've used it to keep from eating, I've used it to calm down, I've used it because others had, I've used it because I was bored, I've used it because it was there, I've used it because....well...because I could.  It started with Skoal Wintergreen, the Spearment, then back to Wintergreen, then Cope - Long Cut, then Rooster, then Grizzly.

Now I have to stop.  My choice.  not my wife's, mom's, brothers, grandma's, dad's, but mine. 

My reasons...
1.  Brayden (7), Addison (3) and Carter (1).  I've done well at hiding it from kids for a long time, but is it fair to them that their father sneaks around doing something that is bad for his health?  When they grow up, I don't want to be a hypocrit. 

2.  My health.  enough said.  I don't want to be the guy with no jaw, what fun would that be?

3.  To prove I can.  If I can beat this, I can do anything.

I'm currently on day 8 (quit day of 4/1/11 - my mom's birthday).  I planned this day about 25 days prior and discussed quitting with my family and my doctor.  So far it's been pretty rough.  Sunflower seeds hurt my mouth, I haven't had a good crap in a week (sorry if TMI), I eat everything in sight and I can't sleep...at all!

Sorry for the lengthy intro, I guess I had more on my mind than I thought.  Thanks for welcoming me to your community.  I know I'll be around for a long time!

-Boilerbates
While it may sound selfish, reason 2 needs to be reason 1. If you don't do this for yourself first you may end up resenting your family.

If I can do anything, let me know.
Excellent advice ! This has to be for you and only you. When it really sucks you do not want to blame the way you are feeling on someone else. This is all your fault, so accept what comes and decide no matter what you will NEVER put that shit in your face again.

Welcome to the party. Let me know if I can help.

STAY QUIT

Greg
No such thing as TMI here...by the way, rages will come, fog will get better and worse...soemtimes you'll just need to scream at someone. That's what we're here for, love that family, rage at us...we're big boys, we can take it, we've done it ourselves. All you need to do is promise us that you won't dip...and then don't dip! Need anything PM me.
Brian
May '09

Somebody has to do something, and it's just incredibly pathetic that it has to be us.
-Jerry Garcia


Read My HOF Speech, Maybe It'll Help!

That Decision Has Been Made Today!

Quit Date 2/17/2009
HOF Date 5/27/2009
1 Year 2/16/2010
2 Years 2/16/2011

Offline Scowick65

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Re: Boilerbates - This time, it's personal
« Reply #10 on: April 10, 2011, 04:26:00 PM »
Quote from: Boilerbates
Yesterday was suprisingly ok, today sucks. I would normally have a big fatty in watching the Masters, then to baseball practice. Today I went to the hardware store and didn't even think about chew, but once i got home I started hurt'n. I have zero fingernails left to chew and my stomach is full from eating everything in site.

I'm writing this to get my mind off of it. anyone watching the Masters?
I am and good job. Keep going one day at a time. It adds up.

Offline Boilerbates

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Re: Boilerbates - This time, it's personal
« Reply #9 on: April 10, 2011, 04:15:00 PM »
Yesterday was suprisingly ok, today sucks. I would normally have a big fatty in watching the Masters, then to baseball practice. Today I went to the hardware store and didn't even think about chew, but once i got home I started hurt'n. I have zero fingernails left to chew and my stomach is full from eating everything in site.

I'm writing this to get my mind off of it. anyone watching the Masters?
1st Day of Quit = April 1, 2011

Quit will triumph, because dip is dumb

Offline 30yraddict

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Re: Boilerbates - This time, it's personal
« Reply #8 on: April 09, 2011, 01:42:00 PM »
Quote from: Boilerbates
FYI, I did roll call this morning, but for some reason my name isn't showing up on any of the re-posts.  Didn't want to disappoint!

It's on a roll call around the 6 AM-ish timeframe.
You were bumped this morning, which happens when 2 people post at the same time. I added your name back to roll call

Offline Greg5280

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Re: Boilerbates - This time, it's personal
« Reply #7 on: April 09, 2011, 01:23:00 PM »
Quote from: klark
Quote from: Boilerbates
Hello,

My name is Eric Bates.  I am 33 years old and a proud father of three kids.  My wife and I have been married for 10 years this July.  I have chewed tobacco since I was 16 years old. 

It all started in high school, with the quick marts / gas stations that would sell chew to anyone with money.  Once I hit college, it was everyday, nearly all day...no need to hide it from anyone.  After graduation, I went to work in residential construction, the perfect climate for chewing tobacco.

My hobbies are baseball (coaching), golf, camping, fishing, anything outdooors, again, the perfect environment for chewing tobacco.

I've been around chewing tobacco for a long time.  I've used it to keep from eating, I've used it to calm down, I've used it because others had, I've used it because I was bored, I've used it because it was there, I've used it because....well...because I could.  It started with Skoal Wintergreen, the Spearment, then back to Wintergreen, then Cope - Long Cut, then Rooster, then Grizzly.

Now I have to stop.  My choice.  not my wife's, mom's, brothers, grandma's, dad's, but mine. 

My reasons...
1.  Brayden (7), Addison (3) and Carter (1).  I've done well at hiding it from kids for a long time, but is it fair to them that their father sneaks around doing something that is bad for his health?  When they grow up, I don't want to be a hypocrit. 

2.  My health.  enough said.  I don't want to be the guy with no jaw, what fun would that be?

3.  To prove I can.  If I can beat this, I can do anything.

I'm currently on day 8 (quit day of 4/1/11 - my mom's birthday).  I planned this day about 25 days prior and discussed quitting with my family and my doctor.  So far it's been pretty rough.  Sunflower seeds hurt my mouth, I haven't had a good crap in a week (sorry if TMI), I eat everything in sight and I can't sleep...at all!

Sorry for the lengthy intro, I guess I had more on my mind than I thought.  Thanks for welcoming me to your community.  I know I'll be around for a long time!

-Boilerbates
While it may sound selfish, reason 2 needs to be reason 1. If you don't do this for yourself first you may end up resenting your family.

If I can do anything, let me know.
Excellent advice ! This has to be for you and only you. When it really sucks you do not want to blame the way you are feeling on someone else. This is all your fault, so accept what comes and decide no matter what you will NEVER put that shit in your face again.

Welcome to the party. Let me know if I can help.

STAY QUIT

Greg

Offline Boilerbates

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Re: Boilerbates - This time, it's personal
« Reply #6 on: April 09, 2011, 12:04:00 PM »
Quote from: gmann
Boiler, since you nailed roll on your first attempt, you've probably spent some time reading this site.  Go to this link and it will tell you what to expect when quitting.  http://www.killthecan.org/yourquit/what.asp  Your issues are normal. 

When you have a question or just want to vent or rage, post it in here or in your July quit group and someone will usually be right along to help.  Having folks going through the same thing is very helpful in that regard. 

Again, welcome to the site and I'll be looking for you to post your Day 9 early tomorrow morning.
FYI, I did roll call this morning, but for some reason my name isn't showing up on any of the re-posts. Didn't want to disappoint!

It's on a roll call around the 6 AM-ish timeframe.
1st Day of Quit = April 1, 2011

Quit will triumph, because dip is dumb

Offline 30yraddict

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Re: Boilerbates - This time, it's personal
« Reply #5 on: April 08, 2011, 04:44:00 PM »
Welcome Eric,

We all have gone through what you are going through. It is an understatement to say that it is hard. I want you to know that it gets better in a hurry. It was about day 10 when I began to sleep somewhat normally. You will crave, you will have trouble concentrating, you may even get a bit depressed at times. Those times will begin to get less intense and begin to be further and further apart. You are right on the verge of some great days of triumph.

Glad to be quit with you,

30

Offline klark

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Re: Boilerbates - This time, it's personal
« Reply #4 on: April 08, 2011, 04:04:00 PM »
Quote from: Boilerbates
Hello,

My name is Eric Bates. I am 33 years old and a proud father of three kids. My wife and I have been married for 10 years this July. I have chewed tobacco since I was 16 years old.

It all started in high school, with the quick marts / gas stations that would sell chew to anyone with money. Once I hit college, it was everyday, nearly all day...no need to hide it from anyone. After graduation, I went to work in residential construction, the perfect climate for chewing tobacco.

My hobbies are baseball (coaching), golf, camping, fishing, anything outdooors, again, the perfect environment for chewing tobacco.

I've been around chewing tobacco for a long time. I've used it to keep from eating, I've used it to calm down, I've used it because others had, I've used it because I was bored, I've used it because it was there, I've used it because....well...because I could. It started with Skoal Wintergreen, the Spearment, then back to Wintergreen, then Cope - Long Cut, then Rooster, then Grizzly.

Now I have to stop. My choice. not my wife's, mom's, brothers, grandma's, dad's, but mine.

My reasons...
1. Brayden (7), Addison (3) and Carter (1). I've done well at hiding it from kids for a long time, but is it fair to them that their father sneaks around doing something that is bad for his health? When they grow up, I don't want to be a hypocrit.

2. My health. enough said. I don't want to be the guy with no jaw, what fun would that be?

3. To prove I can. If I can beat this, I can do anything.

I'm currently on day 8 (quit day of 4/1/11 - my mom's birthday). I planned this day about 25 days prior and discussed quitting with my family and my doctor. So far it's been pretty rough. Sunflower seeds hurt my mouth, I haven't had a good crap in a week (sorry if TMI), I eat everything in sight and I can't sleep...at all!

Sorry for the lengthy intro, I guess I had more on my mind than I thought. Thanks for welcoming me to your community. I know I'll be around for a long time!

-Boilerbates
While it may sound selfish, reason 2 needs to be reason 1. If you don't do this for yourself first you may end up resenting your family.

If I can do anything, let me know.
A promise not kept is the road to exile.

If quitting is cool, consider me Myles Davis.

Unless you bring value onto my 1/2 acre, I don't want to hear it.

Offline G

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Re: Boilerbates - This time, it's personal
« Reply #3 on: April 08, 2011, 04:00:00 PM »
Boiler, since you nailed roll on your first attempt, you've probably spent some time reading this site. Go to this link and it will tell you what to expect when quitting. http://www.killthecan.org/yourquit/what.asp Your issues are normal.

When you have a question or just want to vent or rage, post it in here or in your July quit group and someone will usually be right along to help. Having folks going through the same thing is very helpful in that regard.

Again, welcome to the site and I'll be looking for you to post your Day 9 early tomorrow morning.