Almost there... Quit Date Dec 31st 2013

[Steakbomb18]

Aaron/NeonPanther, I want you to quit and stay quit, I really do. I feel that way about anybody who comes to KTC or who has been here long before I. I also agree with what Its_Got2Happen said, which was basically, that after having gone on a 7-day bender/cave of addict behavior and deception, you came to your senses and fessed up. I can appreciate that.

What makes KTC unique (to me) is, simply put, this is a website. A virtual support group for those looking to quit nicotine. I have never met anyone in person and nobody has met me. All we know of each other is that we are nicotine addicts who have made a claim that we want to quit and/or stay quit. Beyond that all we know is what we post or what is in our profile. There are some who have PM's, texts, and telephone conversations. What I'm saying is, we have virtual relationships. So, the only pillar in which we can continue to build upon these relationships is our word. Our honor. And on that pillar we build trust. Virtually. I think this is why it is difficult for me and for others to get beyond the 7 day bender of lies. The virtual pillar of trust was destroyed. Here at KTC that trust is sacred to us, because it's the only thing we have that keeps our word true to one another in this virtual support group.

But, there is a light at the end of this tunnel. We can rebuild. Sometimes rebuilding is more difficult the second time around. Sometimes it takes more time. For me, know that I want you to rebuild and I want you to succeed.

[wmcatty]

Why is there so much discussion about this issue? Neon posted roll while he was dipping. If you all recall, a few months ago it came to light that PaddyMac did the same thing. I was in chat late one night with Paddy and his conscious was eating him alive. He confided in me what he had done and wanted to know what I thought he should do. After discussing his actions at length with him on the phone, Paddy came clean with his quit group and the KTC community. For the first two or three days, one would have thought he assassinated a head of state from the reactions and name calling that were posted. I disagreed with the majority wanting to publicly castrate then hang him, but those reactions were mostly the result of anger. During that time, Paddy agreed to a self-imposed disciplinary plan that I formulated and we submitted it to Chewie for Administrations consideration. Among the various degrees of punishment that we proposed was an agreement to have Paddy banished for 100 days. Administration did not respond to us and Paddy was banished forever from the site the following day. Precedent was set and banishment from the site was punishment of the day. I still do not agree with the decision to banish him for life, but it is not my site nor was it my decision to make. It seems to me that what is good for the goose should be good for the gander. That is all I have to say on this matter, so let the cards fall where they mayÂ…and have a good, quit Sunday!

[srans]

I'm a forgiving person and a lot of my friends have given you a pass Aaron.

7 days you posted roll while using the poison. WTFlip. I've actually tried to think of some profound stuff to say, but I can't. Your beyond my expertise.

I would have excepted a cave with the three answers if you wouldn't of lied for 7 days. I can even somewhat understand a cave after the daily roll post. BUT, to post roll for 7 days with the poison in your pie hole. I think you even made a couple quotes during that period. Not real sure about that, but it definitely wouldn't surprise me at this point.

I respect my friends decisions to stick with you and it doesn't change my opinions of them in the least. My hat is off to them for helping you. I know you need it!

I don't know how this will ultimately end, but I know you do need to be looking at yourself with a magnifying glass, which I believe you are. I know you have sent out a lot of apologies and seem to be sincere. I do have a heart and want to see you stay quit, but can I help with that? I really don't know.

I'll end with this. There is some real good people that have hit your intro. Some of which I depend on daily. If they can offer you their support then who am I to leave them out in the cold. I never said that I would help my brothers part of the time, or when it looked easy. I will help my brothers when they need it.

[traumagnet]

Granted this cat Neon is a hot mess from what I have heard and read about him. He sounds to me like he needs more help than this site can offer.

And YES I know this decision is not mine to make and that it belongs in the hands of the Admin and Mods here. That being said.

I am w Cbird on this one there are plenty of things that fly around this site I feel there is great latitude given here at KTC we pretty much say fuck you to PC. BUT we do have one sacred rule and that is to not post while using. One rule,! and you broke it not once not twice but 7 times and on the 7th time you got it. You figured out it was bad...hmmm and from the sounds of it you only got it because your wife held your feet to the fire so possibly you wouldn't have come clean if those chain of events didn't happen.

"Your new found conscience"(LHG) is great for you but for the rest of us we get stuck with your crap. You may feel better but I don't. Especially after seeing a post from a newbie yesterday where he asks hmmm I wonder if these guys that are posting up big numbers are really quit. Its that tiny light under the door that we can not have here. That little bit of light can be enough to let her whisper to a few here. My people that I keep close to me have to know that my numbers are real, people who don't know me have to know those numbers are real I give my word EDD that I will not use for today only. Those +'1 have to mean something there CANNOT be a doubt.

I hope you find your way Neon I hope you have learned something you can build on. There are other sites out there that give participation ribbons this one is not. You can take your new lessons with you and share them with people on other sites. You can teach them about integrity brotherhood. The bar is set high for a reason because for many all other methods have failed this is the only one that has worked for me and I will defend KTC.

[T-Cell]

Some pretty interesting reactions to all this. Frankly I'm amazed at the amount of support still being offered.
I get that many of you invested in Neon. He was very active and vocal on the board. Unfortunately he also wasn't all in, either for himself or for the quit community here. Time will tell if he really does want to be a quitter (either here or elsewhere), though obviously several of you believe that already.
As someone without the personal investment in this case, I tend to side with C-Bird. How anyone can show up and post roll at KTC for more than a couple weeks and not learn what quitting is really about, what this site is all about?
Can Neon turn it around? Sure he can, he can be a serious quitter. But he will also always be the guy that lied on roll too. He is fortunate to have quitters in his corner still. But don't expect a lot of the longer term vets to be ok with this, this type of transgression tears at the fabric of KTC.

[cbird65]

Bullshit to all this - you broke the cardinal rule of this site

Regardless of the which way the winds of acceptable failure blow there needs and must be a definitive line drawn here. Lie cheat steal - yeah we all did that before but this site is about honor, integrity, brotherhood and success.

First and foremost this site is about integrity and you dumped on that and now plead you case to remain - you need a quit site but not this one

[Erussell]

It's up to you,,,,,, you decide,,, not us if your word counts. You said "That being said I am just one person. I will not risk further damaging this brotherhood or anyone's quit." Then don't! Stay or go is up to you! So the above statement is left solely up to you as well. Chose to stay, chose every day to keep your word and be a man of integrity, and you will strengthen not hurt our brotherhood!

[AppleJack]

Grace.
It's precious, man.
It is a profoundly undeserved gift.
I think you have been given some.

You'll never earn it or be able to pay it back BUT... You can work to be worthy of the sacrifice grace is.
Be worth it.

[jake frawley]

What an interesting day.

Went to the gym a couple of times. Switched out a couple of faucets at home. Spent the afternoon at the museum with the wife looking at monets (not my thing). Went to a nice dinner. Then spent 30 minutes on the phone with Aaron (Neonpanther ). I was, and am, pissed at his actions. But I don't want the guy to die - he is a friend.

How glad am I that I'm not an admin or moderator right now?!?! Because... The cardinal rule of this site was broken. Yeah, he came back, admitted his mistake, and I can tell you that he understands the gravity of his mistake. He knows that he is quit now, and that he needs the support of this site to stay quit. He is all in. But... He broke the cardinal rule. Why?

This is where it gets shaky... The first go around, in talking with him, I get the impression that he quit as a team.... Some people quit for their kids. They fail. Some quit for their spouse. They fail. Some quit because they need to, but do it as a pack mentality. I think aaron was in this group on the first round. And that also explains the almost grief experience he is feeling now about letting us down. Truth he told, his failure didn't weaken me one bit - in fact it strengthened me. Cause I sure don't ever want to feel what he is going thru. No way I could do it. I guess what I'm saying is... He gets it. He knows what he did. He is quitting for himself now. He needs this site to beat a demon that he has been unable to beat until now. But now, he is quit.

I'm so glad I'm not an admin. I have a ton of respect for you guys. I did tell aaron, regardless of what happens, he has my number and he owes me the respect of calling me if he is ever in a situation where craves are extreme or caving is a likelihood. And he committed to keep that promise. I'm mad at him. I punched my brother in the stomach several times growing up. I bit my sister and pulled her hair. But I still loved them. Even when they lied and told dad I was the one that did something they did. So... I will support neon. But I understand and respect whatever decision is made on this site. You guys built a house of quit that I couldn't build on my own. I trust you completely.

This is a tough situation to chime in on. Though I never posted roll while chewing, I did cave. And I remember distinctly the sick feeling in my gut when I had to face the brothers here who had invested in my quit! It is a feeling I hold close to me because it built my resolve. I am now close to most of them again and I work like hell to protect my quit and the support they give me. I know for a fact it was hard for them to trust me again but I think it has come back by my involvement and my resolve to be quit daily. These are relationships I have had to rebuild.

This can happen for you also Neon! The damage has been done. Some of it you can repair and some you cannot. You have to accept that and move on. It is up to you now to decide, will you be free or will you repeat the same classic mistakes? I know what you are feeling right now and though I do not like what you did, I respect you being honest. You were here long enough to know how your revelation would be received. And yet you still admitted to your lies. That takes grit.

I for one Will quit with you! If you choose freedom and fight for it then I will support you. I will also pay attention to your quit and hold you to a higher standard. We cannot blindly support each other. It will take time to rebuild trust, but I do not think it is lost forever! Hold your head and focus on your quit. Use the tools this site offers. And remember this place you are in. Some of us have to fall hard to understand, but now you have no excuse left. If you fail now it will be a blatant choice.

[worktowin]

What an interesting day.

Went to the gym a couple of times. Switched out a couple of faucets at home. Spent the afternoon at the museum with the wife looking at monets (not my thing). Went to a nice dinner. Then spent 30 minutes on the phone with Aaron (Neonpanther ). I was, and am, pissed at his actions. But I don't want the guy to die - he is a friend.

How glad am I that I'm not an admin or moderator right now?!?! Because... The cardinal rule of this site was broken. Yeah, he came back, admitted his mistake, and I can tell you that he understands the gravity of his mistake. He knows that he is quit now, and that he needs the support of this site to stay quit. He is all in. But... He broke the cardinal rule. Why?

This is where it gets shaky... The first go around, in talking with him, I get the impression that he quit as a team.... Some people quit for their kids. They fail. Some quit for their spouse. They fail. Some quit because they need to, but do it as a pack mentality. I think aaron was in this group on the first round. And that also explains the almost grief experience he is feeling now about letting us down. Truth he told, his failure didn't weaken me one bit - in fact it strengthened me. Cause I sure don't ever want to feel what he is going thru. No way I could do it. I guess what I'm saying is... He gets it. He knows what he did. He is quitting for himself now. He needs this site to beat a demon that he has been unable to beat until now. But now, he is quit.

I'm so glad I'm not an admin. I have a ton of respect for you guys. I did tell aaron, regardless of what happens, he has my number and he owes me the respect of calling me if he is ever in a situation where craves are extreme or caving is a likelihood. And he committed to keep that promise. I'm mad at him. I punched my brother in the stomach several times growing up. I bit my sister and pulled her hair. But I still loved them. Even when they lied and told dad I was the one that did something they did. So... I will support neon. But I understand and respect whatever decision is made on this site. You guys built a house of quit that I couldn't build on my own. I trust you completely.

[racetrackcowgirl]

I know for a fact of a couple of things: 1. Addicition is a bitch and 2. this too shall pass. You need to do what will make your quit a success. Coming clean was big - you could have easily just quit posting and left it at a "simple cave" but you dug down deep and laid it all out there. If you want to succeed and you think staying here will do that dont let anyone talk you out of leaving. If you think this will just cause too much stress to an already stressful quit find what you need where you feel comfortable - and don't let anyone else tell you that is wrong either.

Personal experience has showed me (and i speak for me personally alone), my quit is my priority and everyone has to do it their way - we all follow the same lesson plan but each quit is unique. I had to leave the site for about 3 months to let some things die down but i knew i still needed support and found it elsewhere. Some told me to leave and some told me to stay......my quit couldn't stand anymore stress and i left but i kept support and i came back - as long as i do what i say, i'm always welcome.

You can re-earn the trust but it will take time and action. This too shall pass. None of us can judge. We do what we can do and we can learn from what others do.

I wish you strength and wisdom. As a fellow addict (not only from nicotine) I know making that amend is big. Keep your head up, get up off your knees and get back in the game......

My .02 cents though I'm not sure i'd pay for my opinion most of the time.

[pbrain04]

I don't see how anyone could look at that number next to your name and believe 100% that you are QUIT that day.

When May members look at that list of promises to give them strength, they will never be able to look at yours with confidence, ever. Am I wrong?

No you are not wrong.

But I think you can still look at your May brothers and know they are quit with you. You will see my name in support and know I am quit with you.

Aaron messed up big time. He will never regain trust with a lot of people. It will take a long time with others. He screwed this up for himself but this brotherhood is still alive. It doesn't stop with his transgression. You can look at your May +1's and believe. You can read HOF speeches and believe. You can believe all the dudes hitting their commas. This still works.

Personally I am with Neon. I am quit with him today. I will quit with him tomorrow. I will look at his +1 and believe that he is quit. His cave did not hurt my quit. It reminded me that you can never let your guard down.

I know many want Aaron gone. That is their opinion and they are entitled. I don't want him gone. That is my opinion and I am entitled.

PB

[wastepanel]

I'm new here, I haven't seen the effects something like this, or any cave past the first few weeks for that matter, has on the community. But I do have an opinion which I hope you will take into account.

I don't see how anyone could look at that number next to your name and believe 100% that you are QUIT that day.

That is what scares me. This site, the sacredness of the roll, is built upon the foundation of a promise.

When May members look at that list of promises to give them strength, they will never be able to look at yours with confidence, ever. Am I wrong?

I'm a man of forgiveness, I believe people deserve second chances and that your words came from the heart of a man who wants to be QUIT. But this isn't just about you. Your integrity has been compromised in a place where your integrity is the one thing you must keep, for other's sake just as much as your own.

Something for you to ponder.

These are some wise, wise words my friend.

The Welcome Center (and my good friend Loot) states:

Roll call is the most important thing you will do here. That one simple act will be what makes this quit different than any other attempt. Roll call, quite simply, is a promise to your brothers that you will be Nicotine Free for that day.

We require a simple “one day at a time” philosophy. Make roll call, concentrate on today and today only. We’ll work through the troubles of today with you. We’ll worry about tomorrow when it gets here.

Roll call will build accountability with your brothers. You know that the man next to you in line is going through or has dealt with the exact same things you are. Lean on the knowledge of those who have walked that road. Develop relationships with them and especially the guys in your home group. These people will save your life if you let them.

If you follow this simple advice you’ll be amazed. You have lied to, cheated on, and stole time from every single person you hold dear. You take roll call seriously, and you will find that total strangers will give your quit more accountability than any “real” person in your world.

If you want to quit, deep down, really want to quitÂ…roll call is the cornerstone you will build your quit house on. Be loyal to yourself, your group, and ultimately to QSX as a whole and you shall have the freedom you desire. Guaranteed.

Remember that old Seinfeld episode when he made the reservation for the rental car (only to find out that they didn't have any)?

Jerry: I don't understand. Do you have my reservation?
Rental Car Agent: We have your reservation, we just ran out of cars.
Jerry: But the reservation keeps the car here. That's why you have the reservation.
Rental Car Agent: I think I know why we have reservations.
Jerry: I don't think you do. You see, you know how to *take* the reservation, you just don't know how to *hold* the reservation. And that's really the most important part of the reservation: the holding. Anybody can just take them.

Roll call is just like that, and I don't know if Panther ever knew what it means to *hold* his quit.

Anybody can*make* a promise to stay quit, but only a quitter can *hold* this promise. A true quitter will make it his first priority to be quit. He will plan for it. He will live it. It's not always easy, but it is simple.

Honestly, I fucking hate when anybody soils this site. I'm torn up by it. And Panther may not be worth another look...

But what if he is?

Don't we all deserve to be quit?

Panther was a doosh. He

lied to, cheated on, and stole time from every single person

here. Most importantly, he did it to himself. He didn't respect himself. Roll starts and ends with a promise to yourself.

I truly hope that he gets his head on straight. I truly hope that he realizes what he has to do to get beyond this. I truly hope he can be quit. I truly hope he shows some intestinal fortitude and becomes the most badass quitter the world has ever seen.

But I can't control that.

Panther, you came here for extreme help. You forfeited your first round splendidly. Get up, dust yourself off, and be free. Fuck the noise and do everything in your power to be quit from this moment on. Own your mistake. Learn from it. Grow.

[Knockout]

I'm new here, I haven't seen the effects something like this, or any cave past the first few weeks for that matter, has on the community. But I do have an opinion which I hope you will take into account.

I don't see how anyone could look at that number next to your name and believe 100% that you are QUIT that day.

That is what scares me. This site, the sacredness of the roll, is built upon the foundation of a promise.

When May members look at that list of promises to give them strength, they will never be able to look at yours with confidence, ever. Am I wrong?

I'm a man of forgiveness, I believe people deserve second chances and that your words came from the heart of a man who wants to be QUIT. But this isn't just about you. Your integrity has been compromised in a place where your integrity is the one thing you must keep, for other's sake just as much as your own.

Something for you to ponder.

[Wt57]

I'm have been running through what to say or how to respond to everyone, I'm not following a strategy to post roll and stay silent.I'm not trying to think of what is the right thing to say, or figure out what you want to hear. I don't know what to say because I feel I have no right to speak to any of you, but many of you clearly want a response. I have no case to argue. Not one of you has said anything I disagree with.

You are all correct. I chose to cave and lie about it, for seven days. I am completely unworthy of your trust. My entire life dipping was a lie. Only 5 people ever knew I dipped. I dipped for 2 years before my wife caught me for the 1st time. My cave was the same extreme dishonesty.

These last 4 days have been hell, but I deserve every second of it. In the supreme selfishness of my choices and dishonesty, I never once considered how much this would effect anyone else. I am overwhelmed by how many people I have hurt, and how many quits I have shaken. I have betrayed all of you and this brotherhood. How can I possibly apologize? I cannot express the remorse I feel for this.

When I chose to cave and to lie about it, I completely cut myself off from all support. I think the only redeeming factor that I can ask you to consider in your decision to allow me to stay here, is that I alone made the choice to come clean. I did not get caught. I didn't have any help. I was falling back into the void of addiction and death. I chose honesty and life. I had to do it alone. It took every scrap of my integrity, and it was the hardest thing I can ever remember doing.

That being said I am just one person. I will not risk further damaging this brotherhood or anyone's quit. I have only remained because I desperately want to stay quit. I tasted success every day for 42 days. I know what is possible and I will not give that up. The admins have not stepped in, but this is between me and each of you. To this point I feel the majority of you want me gone. If the majority of you can not abide me posting roll, and quitting here. I will not post again. I don't expect much support but I ask that you not purposely fight against me. I am unworthy of your trust and support, but for what it's worth, I promise today, and I will promise every day to never lie on this site, or to any of you again.

I do not want you to leave. I want you to remain quit. Staying here is your best chance. You stacked the deck against yourself and violated some serious trust. Many people will not forgive you. I don't blame them. They take their quits seriously and your actions harmed the very foundation of this site.

I forgive you. I forgive you because I am you. My addiction also made me a liar. I lied to my wife, my kids, my co-workers, my doctor, my dentist. I did anything and everything I could do to get my fix. I stayed at work late. I left ballgames and weddings early. I brought a spit bottle to Seasame street live. I read my kids speed books. I missed church. I even slept on the couch 100s of times just to get that last dip in. I put my addiction above everything in my life. Then I found this place.

You did not harm my quit, you strengthened it. You reminded me of what a selfish liar I used to be when I served the god of nicotine. You reminded me that we wrestle with a formidable opponent. I am nearing 400 days quit but even today I must remind myself that I am no closer to failure, (or success) than I was on day 4 or day 40. Addiction is forever. We fight this battle one day at a time. If you have promised not to use nicotine today NP, than I quit with you.

This is a very interesting situation, a real dilemma. Trust is lost, sacred honor broken and so many feelings are near the surface on all sides. Should neon remain or leave? What is needed to demonstrate true remorse? What can be done to repair damage done? My concern is, does anything you do neon resolve the issue that lead you to going out and getting drunk? Avoiding situations is what started your problems. I was always really upset and remorseful when my wife caught me dipping. I'd look her in the face and lie, didn't even feel guilty I didn't want to face the inevitable decision. I didn't want to quit, I wasn't ready. Are you truly ready? Granted you came forth and admitted your cave and lying. That's a bold step. Finding ones self at the bottom has lasting memories. For me I used many things to avoid facing realities of life, dip was just one way of self medication. Until I found myself in that lowest of low positions I just added more ways to avoid facing reality. The bottom for me left 2 options, facing my addiction or ending my life. I didn't like either option. It took me 6 months to make a decision and begin the climb out.
It isn't my decision of what neons future here is. If it were. I'm not sure. Given a piece of rope in the bottom of the pit you have 2 options; use the rope to help pull yourself out or hang yourself. If you are Given the rope (chance) time will tell which you choose.
It's your turn, face ALL of your demons or you will keep running and falling till you find the bottom, if this wasn't it.