How we act towards cavers

[DW3]

Hey Ty
Thanks for putting up your number in Oct. Now I know that you didn't cave yesterday and that you are a newb and still learning how things work here. I also know that at day 14 you are probably starting to feel pretty damn good and your wanting to put your mark on the group. Good on you, that's how its supposed to be. I also know that by day 20 or so you are probably in for some setbacks so you will be educated about "funks". 40s and 50s were cruise control for me but I got sick and tired of the site. Funks hit our group pretty hard at around 70.

See, the numbers do mean something not only to you but to the people helping you and to the people holding you accountable. Every new group has a few that want to mess with the system cuz they disagree with it. It works and you will see that in due time. Shit I couldn't even see a system when I was at day 14.

I hope we're all around when you hit 100 to celebrate with you.

DW3 - 249 PM me if you need anything.

[rgross298]

I have only been apart of this site for 2 weeks now. I don't like what i see when someone has the balls to admit they caved. When they come on here and admit they caved a bunch of people kick them in the nuts when they are down. They know they fucked up. Yes they feel bad. You kicking sand in their face doesn't help. We need to be supportive when someone caves. Why? Because you/I could be next. I had an uncle cave after 21 fucking years last week. It can happen to anyone at anytime. We are all brothers  sisters in the same fight. A fight against that dirty slut named nic. And if by chance you happen to fall off the horse......get back on and ride like a mofo. I am no longer counting the days of my quit. I know the day i quit. I am treating everyday like day 1. Nothing more, nothing less. Stay strong everyone. We are all in this.......TOGETHER!!!!!

You say it as if it's not a choice. We could be next? Like trip and fall and a dip or a cig fell in my mouth? It's a definite choice, always has been, always will be. I choose to quit like fuck today. But not because every day is Day 1. Today is Today.

We act that way towards cavers because they forgot, never learned or ignored the methods of quitting success practiced and preached on KTC every single day. The cavers need a refresher course in accountability and the newbs need to see accountability in action. Some call it a mob mentality, others call it internet bullying. Names such as keyboard cowboy, e-bully and dick blind are thrown around here by people that disagree with the KTC tactics. We should be supportive you say? I say we are 100% supportive, but our support is conditional. Only after the caver answers the questions, runs the gauntlet, and re-establishes his / her self as a daily roll poster does said caver receive support. That's not too much to ask and we shouldn't be given a fucking attitude in the process. What possible good does unconditional support provide when dealing with a nicotine addiction? Plus it's an established process that has been repeated time and time again. All you have to do is spend a few hours on KTC these days and you'll see how cavers get treated. Everyone knows the drill, it's never a surprise to the caver. What's wrong with a little added incentive not to fucking cave?

Excellent summary Coach.

Without accountability, this site is useless to you.

Your choice.

Coach Steve and Ready nailed it.

Guys: Never forget that quitting is a choice, and caving is a choice.

If you think that caving can happen to any of us against your will, even your uncle, you need to stick around, get angry, and learn how to gain power over your addiction.

Coach Steve, Ready, and all of the badass quitters on this site aren't just lucky to be quit, they have worked hard and earned it. They own their quits. Aspire to this.

[Coach Steve]

Some of you guys are being a bit ridiculous.  I don't think Ty is saying anything about reinventing the wheel.  I do agree that a caver shouldn't come waltzing back onto KTC and expect every brother to accept him/her gracefully.  So that is where I disagree.  However Ty does point out something and that is treating everyday like day 1.  I took this as him saying that it is important to treat everyday with the same seriousness and strong willed quit as day 1.  Keeping up with the number of days quit is something that some people enjoy keeping up with and seeing how many days that they have stayed clean.  Is this necessary for everyone?  I dunno... maybe to me or to you, but not to other people like Ty.  If you treat everyday like day one, does it really matter what day you are on?  Quit acting like Ty just pissed all over KTC.  He is upset that people are coming down on some cavers which he will learn is important, but Ty also has some valid points that I think are being misinterpreted.

Thank you.

You two don't get it.

If you treat every day as Day 1 (insert member of Feb 12 here) you never heal. You don't grow. You won't ever beat this addiction.

I don't want to go through Day 1 ever again. Ever.

Nolaq - 849

I'll tell you why I don't like this Day 1 thing. And I am only speaking for Coach Steve here.

My Day 1 involved a rather unpleasant trip to the dentist. My Day 1 included words like corroded gum tissue, biopsy, cancer, oral surgeon. My Day 1 was the culmination of 2 years of thinking that I was going to get and die of cancer because of something I wasn't strong enough to quit. My Day 1 brought tears to my eyes...in front of my wife no less. My Day 1 had me curled up in a ball on my recliner with my head buried in my hands unable to do anything. I've never felt weaker than I did on Day 1. My Day 1 was my first step towards freedom after 16 years of slavery. Day 1 was the day I took my life back, but I have no intentions of repeating it. Today is Day 183 and I'm damn proud of it.

Ty, I'm glad that your Day 1 was apparently rainbows and sunshine.

[Nolaq]

Some of you guys are being a bit ridiculous.  I don't think Ty is saying anything about reinventing the wheel.  I do agree that a caver shouldn't come waltzing back onto KTC and expect every brother to accept him/her gracefully.  So that is where I disagree.  However Ty does point out something and that is treating everyday like day 1.  I took this as him saying that it is important to treat everyday with the same seriousness and strong willed quit as day 1.  Keeping up with the number of days quit is something that some people enjoy keeping up with and seeing how many days that they have stayed clean.  Is this necessary for everyone?  I dunno... maybe to me or to you, but not to other people like Ty.  If you treat everyday like day one, does it really matter what day you are on?  Quit acting like Ty just pissed all over KTC.  He is upset that people are coming down on some cavers which he will learn is important, but Ty also has some valid points that I think are being misinterpreted.

Thank you.

You two don't get it.

If you treat every day as Day 1 (insert member of Feb 12 here) you never heal. You don't grow. You won't ever beat this addiction.

I don't want to go through Day 1 ever again. Ever.

Nolaq - 849

[Smokeyg]

Jesus fucking Jesus. If I treated every day like day one, I would be an ignorant tweaker for all eternity. I'll take my 1,513 days of knowledge and accountability. Even if my man 65 faded off into the c-store tonight, that number alone would be enough to keep me quit. Tomorrow I plan to quit like it's day 1,514. I keep track so I never take my quit as an absolute. I'm still an addict, just like I was on day one. Don't let the days become one. Celebrate daily victories. I'm quitting, not quit.

Trust in the system. When I say you don't know shit, rest assured it's coming with love from an ex-know-it-all turkeytwat. You don't know shit. And your rhetoric reeks of dodging accountability.

It won't happen to me. If anything happens, I'll happen to it.

[zam]

Some of you guys are being a bit ridiculous.  I don't think Ty is saying anything about reinventing the wheel.  I do agree that a caver shouldn't come waltzing back onto KTC and expect every brother to accept him/her gracefully.  So that is where I disagree.  However Ty does point out something and that is treating everyday like day 1.  I took this as him saying that it is important to treat everyday with the same seriousness and strong willed quit as day 1.  Keeping up with the number of days quit is something that some people enjoy keeping up with and seeing how many days that they have stayed clean.  Is this necessary for everyone?  I dunno... maybe to me or to you, but not to other people like Ty.  If you treat everyday like day one, does it really matter what day you are on?  Quit acting like Ty just pissed all over KTC.  He is upset that people are coming down on some cavers which he will learn is important, but Ty also has some valid points that I think are being misinterpreted.

I believe Ty was getting some "attention" not because he choses to treat everyday like day one, but because he said he was no longer going to post his number. Maybe this is not re-inventing the place, but it is definitely a in-your-face way of stating that he will not be following the customs that seem to have worked well for me.

Quitting one day at a time is a good thing that will get no arguments. period. As I told Ty in a PM, there ARE good reasons to post the number. Ty gets it-- one day at a time is key. We should be so lucky to have more like Ty.

[Ready]

I have only been apart of this site for 2 weeks now. I don't like what i see when someone has the balls to admit they caved. When they come on here and admit they caved a bunch of people kick them in the nuts when they are down. They know they fucked up. Yes they feel bad. You kicking sand in their face doesn't help. We need to be supportive when someone caves. Why? Because you/I could be next. I had an uncle cave after 21 fucking years last week. It can happen to anyone at anytime. We are all brothers  sisters in the same fight. A fight against that dirty slut named nic. And if by chance you happen to fall off the horse......get back on and ride like a mofo. I am no longer counting the days of my quit. I know the day i quit. I am treating everyday like day 1. Nothing more, nothing less. Stay strong everyone. We are all in this.......TOGETHER!!!!!

You say it as if it's not a choice. We could be next? Like trip and fall and a dip or a cig fell in my mouth? It's a definite choice, always has been, always will be. I choose to quit like fuck today. But not because every day is Day 1. Today is Today.

We act that way towards cavers because they forgot, never learned or ignored the methods of quitting success practiced and preached on KTC every single day. The cavers need a refresher course in accountability and the newbs need to see accountability in action. Some call it a mob mentality, others call it internet bullying. Names such as keyboard cowboy, e-bully and dick blind are thrown around here by people that disagree with the KTC tactics. We should be supportive you say? I say we are 100% supportive, but our support is conditional. Only after the caver answers the questions, runs the gauntlet, and re-establishes his / her self as a daily roll poster does said caver receive support. That's not too much to ask and we shouldn't be given a fucking attitude in the process. What possible good does unconditional support provide when dealing with a nicotine addiction? Plus it's an established process that has been repeated time and time again. All you have to do is spend a few hours on KTC these days and you'll see how cavers get treated. Everyone knows the drill, it's never a surprise to the caver. What's wrong with a little added incentive not to fucking cave?

Excellent summary Coach.

Without accountability, this site is useless to you.

Your choice.

this is how you're supposed to act towards cavers. you're supposed to shit on them and make them feel worthless and be angry and unforgiving. that's what we deserve. and that's what you deserve. if i came back to open arms and rainbows and lollipops, what lesson does that teach new quitters? if the reaction to cavers is "it's ok, we forgive you, come on back" then caving becomes an option. caving is not an option. i forgot that - and i'm getting everything i deserve.

you view this as a lack of support for cavers like me. i view it as an expression of support for quitters like you.

i get my support right now from those that know me well enough to want to give me support. i don't deserve support from those that don't know me. i don't deserve support from anyone in october 2012 because all you know me as is a caver who came crawling back and has only posted for 13 days. there's no confidence there. i have not earned your trust. i get that. all retreads get that.

retreads know what they're in for when they come back because we've been here long enough to see it before. we know when we come back it's going to be ugly as fuck. and what does that say about ktc versus the "other" site? i'd rather get my balls ripped off here than go "there" because i know here works. there i'll get a hug. here i'll get a poke in the eye with a sharp stick. and here i have a better chance of staying quit because here is where people care.

I saw your post in your group. Good on ya. Shows you are willing to listen and learn. Not gonna say we are all right all the time. You will get quite a few opinions on this site. You will also get various advice.

I have seen many cycles on this site and I can say 99.99% of the posts you read are from people who are trying to help you stay quit or keep themselves quit. Both are acceptable.

Then there are the .01% that are just dooshes.

Take what you need and leave the rest.

Per034 speaks from recent experience and he speaks the truth. He has taken the time to post what he did to help others (You specifically but anyone else who comes accross this thread) That will strengthen his quit.

You can do this. I know things just don't seem right. I get that. Poke around a bit. Read everything you can. Maybe go read a group from their very first posts to now. One of my favorites for gaining knowledge with quite a bit of hilarity sprinkled in is April 09. An oldy but a goody.

Give the place a chance.

[Ty#7]

Some of you guys are being a bit ridiculous. I don't think Ty is saying anything about reinventing the wheel. I do agree that a caver shouldn't come waltzing back onto KTC and expect every brother to accept him/her gracefully. So that is where I disagree. However Ty does point out something and that is treating everyday like day 1. I took this as him saying that it is important to treat everyday with the same seriousness and strong willed quit as day 1. Keeping up with the number of days quit is something that some people enjoy keeping up with and seeing how many days that they have stayed clean. Is this necessary for everyone? I dunno... maybe to me or to you, but not to other people like Ty. If you treat everyday like day one, does it really matter what day you are on? Quit acting like Ty just pissed all over KTC. He is upset that people are coming down on some cavers which he will learn is important, but Ty also has some valid points that I think are being misinterpreted.

Thank you.

[lhelms12]

Some of you guys are being a bit ridiculous. I don't think Ty is saying anything about reinventing the wheel. I do agree that a caver shouldn't come waltzing back onto KTC and expect every brother to accept him/her gracefully. So that is where I disagree. However Ty does point out something and that is treating everyday like day 1. I took this as him saying that it is important to treat everyday with the same seriousness and strong willed quit as day 1. Keeping up with the number of days quit is something that some people enjoy keeping up with and seeing how many days that they have stayed clean. Is this necessary for everyone? I dunno... maybe to me or to you, but not to other people like Ty. If you treat everyday like day one, does it really matter what day you are on? Quit acting like Ty just pissed all over KTC. He is upset that people are coming down on some cavers which he will learn is important, but Ty also has some valid points that I think are being misinterpreted.

[Greg5280]

Because you/I could be next. I had an uncle cave after 21 fucking years last week. It can happen to anyone at anytime.

Following your logic we are helpless against a cave. It is what is known as a defeatist mindset: Allow me to introduce you to the KTC mindset:

1. Post Roll

2. Honor Your Promise

3. Repeat.

A cave will not happen to anyone who follows those three steps.

'clap' 'clap'

Amen...

[per034]

I have only been apart of this site for 2 weeks now. I don't like what i see when someone has the balls to admit they caved. When they come on here and admit they caved a bunch of people kick them in the nuts when they are down. They know they fucked up. Yes they feel bad. You kicking sand in their face doesn't help. We need to be supportive when someone caves. Why? Because you/I could be next. I had an uncle cave after 21 fucking years last week. It can happen to anyone at anytime. We are all brothers  sisters in the same fight. A fight against that dirty slut named nic. And if by chance you happen to fall off the horse......get back on and ride like a mofo. I am no longer counting the days of my quit. I know the day i quit. I am treating everyday like day 1. Nothing more, nothing less. Stay strong everyone. We are all in this.......TOGETHER!!!!!

You say it as if it's not a choice. We could be next? Like trip and fall and a dip or a cig fell in my mouth? It's a definite choice, always has been, always will be. I choose to quit like fuck today. But not because every day is Day 1. Today is Today.

We act that way towards cavers because they forgot, never learned or ignored the methods of quitting success practiced and preached on KTC every single day. The cavers need a refresher course in accountability and the newbs need to see accountability in action. Some call it a mob mentality, others call it internet bullying. Names such as keyboard cowboy, e-bully and dick blind are thrown around here by people that disagree with the KTC tactics. We should be supportive you say? I say we are 100% supportive, but our support is conditional. Only after the caver answers the questions, runs the gauntlet, and re-establishes his / her self as a daily roll poster does said caver receive support. That's not too much to ask and we shouldn't be given a fucking attitude in the process. What possible good does unconditional support provide when dealing with a nicotine addiction? Plus it's an established process that has been repeated time and time again. All you have to do is spend a few hours on KTC these days and you'll see how cavers get treated. Everyone knows the drill, it's never a surprise to the caver. What's wrong with a little added incentive not to fucking cave?

Excellent summary Coach.

Without accountability, this site is useless to you.

Your choice.

this is how you're supposed to act towards cavers. you're supposed to shit on them and make them feel worthless and be angry and unforgiving. that's what we deserve. and that's what you deserve. if i came back to open arms and rainbows and lollipops, what lesson does that teach new quitters? if the reaction to cavers is "it's ok, we forgive you, come on back" then caving becomes an option. caving is not an option. i forgot that - and i'm getting everything i deserve.

you view this as a lack of support for cavers like me. i view it as an expression of support for quitters like you.

i get my support right now from those that know me well enough to want to give me support. i don't deserve support from those that don't know me. i don't deserve support from anyone in october 2012 because all you know me as is a caver who came crawling back and has only posted for 13 days. there's no confidence there. i have not earned your trust. i get that. all retreads get that.

retreads know what they're in for when they come back because we've been here long enough to see it before. we know when we come back it's going to be ugly as fuck. and what does that say about ktc versus the "other" site? i'd rather get my balls ripped off here than go "there" because i know here works. there i'll get a hug. here i'll get a poke in the eye with a sharp stick. and here i have a better chance of staying quit because here is where people care.

[30yraddict]

Because you/I could be next. I had an uncle cave after 21 fucking years last week. It can happen to anyone at anytime.

Following your logic we are helpless against a cave. It is what is known as a defeatist mindset: Allow me to introduce you to the KTC mindset:

1. Post Roll

2. Honor Your Promise

3. Repeat.

A cave will not happen to anyone who follows those three steps.

[jjprice]

Every day is day 1?

Of all the days to say that...

No reason to try to change this site. What you're looking for can be found elsewhere.

Hit QUOTE and find the hidden clue which follows this sentence: www.quitsmokeless.org

This.

Plus what my brother Steve said. (I can't figure out how to multi quote)

10 days in and you've got it all figured out.

'Popcorn'

[luby]

Holy Crap! Slamming my head against the wall with this one. Just painfully stupid, special butterfly stuff here. Thousands of days quit, thousands of quitters that have accepted the KTC way and lived the freedom earned one day at a time but you know how to do it better? Fuck me. You don't have to be a robot but don't walk into our nice house shit on the carpet and then tell us we are idiots for using the toilet.

[SirDerek]

I have only been apart of this site for 2 weeks now. I don't like what i see when someone has the balls to admit they caved. When they come on here and admit they caved a bunch of people kick them in the nuts when they are down. They know they fucked up. Yes they feel bad. You kicking sand in their face doesn't help. We need to be supportive when someone caves. Why? Because you/I could be next. I had an uncle cave after 21 fucking years last week. It can happen to anyone at anytime. We are all brothers  sisters in the same fight. A fight against that dirty slut named nic. And if by chance you happen to fall off the horse......get back on and ride like a mofo. I am no longer counting the days of my quit. I know the day i quit. I am treating everyday like day 1. Nothing more, nothing less. Stay strong everyone. We are all in this.......TOGETHER!!!!!

Hey there Ty,

completely understand but what I have also seen is that some of the recent cavers have been a part of other's lives here and a special part of remaining quit for many of days, and the caving that has been done, is seen a little bit as a betrayal of trust between them.

Me, I have no idea who some of these people are but I do feel the ire that they have raised between those in their groups.

I will say though no matter the number I am concentrated on putting the nic bitch into the coffin and burying it into my past And if you are of the same mind, then lets promise one another to kick this thing togeher one day at a time.