I'm tired of cavers posting day 1 and letting me know (via posting in their intro or group) that they feel bad because they failed. I guess I'm just an ass hole because I don't give a shit, I think you should feel bad because you decided to cave. Don't come here, post that you messed up but you own your failure now, ask us for a friendly ass chewing and expect to be welcomed in with open arms by everyone here. You'll get that from some guys, hell I think there are a few guys who'd let you fuck their mom, sister and wife and say awww shucks no big deal as long as you say you feel bad about it. That's not me. To gain my respect you need to shut the fuck up and quit. Own your quit this time and eat a little crow - the guys who are on your ass are still here and still quit - thank them for giving a shit and learn from them, think "thank you sir, may I have another". Some of the guys who come back get that but it seems that many have a hard time doing it. Too often a caver spends more time working to let us all know why they are doing well now, they came back and it was hard to do (sounds to me like they're here to do me a favor, not so much to quit for themself!) These are the guys that feel the need to defend themself after every response to their sorry ass day 1 post. Something else I have a hard time getting is how few cavers come back as retreads. You don't need to run your group but you sure has hell should have digits for everyone and I think you should ask to help with the spreadsheet too. Will those things keep you quit? Hell no, only 1 thing keeps me quit - me not pushing nicotine into my face, arm, ass or other orifice. So while they won't quit for you (neither will posting roll, you're only as good as your word and in my short time here I've seen more than one guy with a roll post cave later that day) using the tools here sure won't push you to another cave. end rant