Author Topic: Self loathing  (Read 7101 times)

0 Members and 3 Guests are viewing this topic.

Offline Grizzfall

  • Quitter
  • **
  • Posts: 469
  • Interests: Staying quit.Staying sane.Being more productive
  • Likes Given: 0
Re: Self loathing
« Reply #60 on: November 09, 2013, 10:13:00 AM »
Jan 14'
Go saturday. Saturday fucking rocks. Less stress than the weekdays and no excuse to dip. Saturdays are what you want to make of them. Work. Play. Fuck. Explore. Read. Anything.
My saturday will be enjoyed to the fullest without chew, and i now say that with confidence. A few weeks back i couldn't. So have a good saturday everyone. We are killing it! Keep quit.
-Grizzfall
-Grizzfall
"This personal torture has a good ending right?"

Offline Jlud007

  • Quitter
  • **
  • Posts: 2,335
  • Likes Given: 0
Re: Self loathing
« Reply #59 on: November 06, 2013, 09:50:00 PM »
Quote from: worktowin
Quote from: Grizzfall
Brothers,
  As the slow march of time progresses I am beginning to see the patterning. There is the cyclical pattern of quitting, with each revolution becoming less frequent and less intense. There is the pattern of new quitters posting their first introduction with skydiver commitment. And there is a pattern of failure. This one I haven't figured out yet.
      Jan.14 is my class and my rock. I know that some will fail and have been told so by those who have gone before. But I am still surprised with the caves. I'm surprised with the guy who preached victory and the guy who quietly disappeared from roll. Both types of quitter have failed in Jan 14. It makes me question my own fortitude and understand how one cave weakens the group. It also pisses me off that they won't enjoy the hard road with the group.
    I offer up a request to the pre- HOF community: If you don't plan on seeing this through please bow out now. I have no Interest in wasting more words with cavers. Your cave stole  time and effort from me and everyone else who gave a shit about you. Just stay quit or go elsewhere.
Grizz - I've kind of got mixed feelings on the cavers. They got me down a bit too. After hof my group lost a lot of our team - did they cave or just leave? In the end... Doesn't matter to me. Wish them well , but I'm surrounded by a group that is strong now. Stick with your strength and let the anger propel you further forward. This quit is for you. No caver can take that away or make it any less sweet. But I still get pissed at cavers!
Hey Grizz,

I can't tell you it gets better....it may get tougher the closer you get. I can tell you that the unfortunate cavers and situations that beset our group leading up to the HOF helped me forge some of the closest bonds with guys in my group. It's unreal how many guys can come and go in that 100 days. Like w2w said this quit is for you, let every caver remind you that your only $5 and a bad decision away from the same fate. Stay involved and keep up the good work man!

Offline worktowin

  • Moderator (Retired)
  • Master of Quit
  • *****
  • Posts: 28,373
  • Interests: GymWorkTravel
  • Likes Given: 108
Re: Self loathing
« Reply #58 on: November 06, 2013, 09:44:00 PM »
Quote from: Grizzfall
Brothers,
As the slow march of time progresses I am beginning to see the patterning. There is the cyclical pattern of quitting, with each revolution becoming less frequent and less intense. There is the pattern of new quitters posting their first introduction with skydiver commitment. And there is a pattern of failure. This one I haven't figured out yet.
Jan.14 is my class and my rock. I know that some will fail and have been told so by those who have gone before. But I am still surprised with the caves. I'm surprised with the guy who preached victory and the guy who quietly disappeared from roll. Both types of quitter have failed in Jan 14. It makes me question my own fortitude and understand how one cave weakens the group. It also pisses me off that they won't enjoy the hard road with the group.
I offer up a request to the pre- HOF community: If you don't plan on seeing this through please bow out now. I have no Interest in wasting more words with cavers. Your cave stole time and effort from me and everyone else who gave a shit about you. Just stay quit or go elsewhere.
Grizz - I've kind of got mixed feelings on the cavers. They got me down a bit too. After hof my group lost a lot of our team - did they cave or just leave? In the end... Doesn't matter to me. Wish them well , but I'm surrounded by a group that is strong now. Stick with your strength and let the anger propel you further forward. This quit is for you. No caver can take that away or make it any less sweet. But I still get pissed at cavers!

Offline Grizzfall

  • Quitter
  • **
  • Posts: 469
  • Interests: Staying quit.Staying sane.Being more productive
  • Likes Given: 0
Re: Self loathing
« Reply #57 on: November 06, 2013, 09:36:00 PM »
Brothers,
As the slow march of time progresses I am beginning to see the patterning. There is the cyclical pattern of quitting, with each revolution becoming less frequent and less intense. There is the pattern of new quitters posting their first introduction with skydiver commitment. And there is a pattern of failure. This one I haven't figured out yet.
Jan.14 is my class and my rock. I know that some will fail and have been told so by those who have gone before. But I am still surprised with the caves. I'm surprised with the guy who preached victory and the guy who quietly disappeared from roll. Both types of quitter have failed in Jan 14. It makes me question my own fortitude and understand how one cave weakens the group. It also pisses me off that they won't enjoy the hard road with the group.
I offer up a request to the pre- HOF community: If you don't plan on seeing this through please bow out now. I have no Interest in wasting more words with cavers. Your cave stole time and effort from me and everyone else who gave a shit about you. Just stay quit or go elsewhere.
-Grizzfall
"This personal torture has a good ending right?"

Offline worktowin

  • Moderator (Retired)
  • Master of Quit
  • *****
  • Posts: 28,373
  • Interests: GymWorkTravel
  • Likes Given: 108
Re: Self loathing
« Reply #56 on: October 31, 2013, 04:19:00 AM »
Quote from: Grizzfall
Dear Diary,
It feels like a lot of the confusion and bi-polar crap is settling down. I had a brief, but comfortable discussion with doc (FIL) about quitting. He didnt seem surpised with the fact i chewed, but was a bit taken aback when i started the conversation. Its funny how i could lie to myself about what others thought about my chewing. But its fucking hilarious that i thought i hid it well. The in-laws are some stubborn irish folk, my wife included. They can live a lifetime with something wrong and never say a word. However, once a issue is voiced, it is public domain. Now that being quit is out in the open all that fear of being discovered is gone. All those years in fear of being caught...wasted time. So thanks for the push guys. Your advice and shared experience builds my quit and then echoes into the lives of my family and friends. They dont know it, but i do.
Thanks KTC
Grizzfall
Congratulations on adding another powerful layer of accountability to your quit. You are rocking it!

Offline Grizzfall

  • Quitter
  • **
  • Posts: 469
  • Interests: Staying quit.Staying sane.Being more productive
  • Likes Given: 0
Re: Self loathing
« Reply #55 on: October 30, 2013, 11:38:00 PM »
Dear Diary,
It feels like a lot of the confusion and bi-polar crap is settling down. I had a brief, but comfortable discussion with doc (FIL) about quitting. He didnt seem surpised with the fact i chewed, but was a bit taken aback when i started the conversation. Its funny how i could lie to myself about what others thought about my chewing. But its fucking hilarious that i thought i hid it well. The in-laws are some stubborn irish folk, my wife included. They can live a lifetime with something wrong and never say a word. However, once a issue is voiced, it is public domain. Now that being quit is out in the open all that fear of being discovered is gone. All those years in fear of being caught...wasted time. So thanks for the push guys. Your advice and shared experience builds my quit and then echoes into the lives of my family and friends. They dont know it, but i do.
Thanks KTC
Grizzfall
-Grizzfall
"This personal torture has a good ending right?"

Offline Its_Got2Happen

  • Quitter
  • **
  • Posts: 3,458
  • Interests: Staying Quit!!
  • Likes Given: 0
Re: Self loathing
« Reply #54 on: October 29, 2013, 05:28:00 PM »
Grizzfall. Let me start by saying wow. At 24 days you have a quit maturity that I don't see in most HOFers.

The 3 points from you PM.

1. No apologies necessary or accepted. You talk when you can you type when you can. This site is a tool. You use it when you need to. Take what you need leave the rest.

2. Sitting 25 ft up and waiting for Mr big is a reference to bowhunting. But your 80s music thing almost made me fall out of the tree.

3. No credentials are required to help others. A few encouraging words from a rock star 3+ week quitter like yourself could be the difference in someones quit. Never know. Just be yourself and tell people how you did it.

Stay quit bud. Thanks for the kind words on my thread. I am glad that you are getting better. Nice to watch you win.

Ryan

Offline worktowin

  • Moderator (Retired)
  • Master of Quit
  • *****
  • Posts: 28,373
  • Interests: GymWorkTravel
  • Likes Given: 108
Re: Self loathing
« Reply #53 on: October 27, 2013, 08:55:00 AM »
Quote from: srans
Quote from: Grizzfall
Quote from: Sgt12
Quote from: Grizzfall
Guys,
  I get the point. I will talk to Doc (my FIL) this weekend when i see him again. I do sound like a drama pussy. Sorry for that, just have always been a private person. (hence the secret dip and difficulty "drinking the kool-aide".) Fuck it. This quit will be my only quit so i might as well inform those around me. Yeah, accountability. Doc is as smart a man as they come...in his own way. Funny old irishman. I suppose he will understand. BTW i love the logic that there is always someone else who is more fucked up than you are. It is terrible but has a strange comfort to it.
Thanks guys,
-Neil
I had to surprise my FIL with my quit, too. He didn't know I dipped. My wife might have mentioned it to him once following one of the times when she caught me...

He was very cool about it. He did not pass an ounce of judgment. He told me good job. I don't know, bro... Every situation is different but I'd suggest coming clean.

I know I'm damn proud of my quit. I tell people about it as much as I can. "Oh, I didn't even know you chewed," they say. I know. Big time ninja dipping but these, to me, are the consequences... And in sharing my quit, I believe I have positively impacted some people (one guy is 30 days quit without KTC after hearing I was quit).

Just blabbing now, bro. I'm proud to be quit with you today and every day.
SGT,
Its interesting that you mention pride in your quit as an empowering device. I am now proud of my quit, and grow more each day. When i used nic everyday this was not the case. For me, the first couple months were great. I would retire to the basement workshop to build whatever interested me. Some nights i worked on building "piglet" the mini bike.
Other nights i would teardown some broken portion of piglet just to see how it worked. Everything seemed interesting at first.
The point is that nicotine has a way of claiming credit for anything positve. Any night I spent workinging on a fun project, was a night i could chew. I would retire to the basement shop as soon as dinner was over. In went a pinch of cope fom the tin hidden on the duct work. And then...peace.
You have to remember, I was 15 at this time and living under my parents rule. Plus...
Privacy was hard to come by at that age. Nobody bothered you in the basement, and i knew it was just me, piglet, and the chew can of infinite possibility.

It didnt take long for my nic addled brain to associate shop time with chew, and chew with physical work, and i already new how physical work led to success. Done. That was all it took.
But the worst part of those days is how I would CREDIT the nic hussy. I honestly thought my accomplishments were due to the secret diping. Tired? Chew. Bord? Chew. Build a mini bike? Chew. The tin was always there to give me power over any problem in my way. Once i turned 16 there was nothing worth doing if a pinch didnt come along too. And that...is true addiction.

Hear we are now, only a few days into removing dip from our lives. For my brain, that means removing the drug that makes all other parts of life possible. I felt useless well into the second week of quit.
Until i realized...that i could take the garbage out without a fresh pinch. Later i found i could walk the dog without scrambling for a tin. These moments grew in numbers until i finally got what message everyone is talking about here. Nicotine never helped me do anything better. It just added complexity and stress to my life. Fuck that.
Im still a newbie 3 week quitter but i can say i dont miss the anxiety of constantly knowing the volume of chew i have left. I can walk out the door, hop in the truck, and not worry about how to get my next can. That is freedom, and all the hurt so far is well worth it.
Stay quit bro,
Grizzfall
Great job bro. You are uncovering the lies daily. It's one thing for us to tell you the lies, but when you start uncovering them yourself it means you are healing. One day at a time and you can have back a lot of what the poison has stolen. Never again for any reason and you can keep it. Glad to be quit with you .
Every time I read these updates I think... Is this itsgottohappen ??? Because his story sounds a whole hell of a lot like this. Today Ryan hits day 300 of freedom. The beginning of the journey to freedom seems like an impossible trek, but it is possible. I don't know if you have read ig2h's thread, but if not, it is a great read. For you, it might be like a crystal ball to a very bright future.

Offline srans

  • Quit Pro
  • ***
  • Posts: 5,147
  • Interests: Fishing and playing the guitar.
  • Likes Given: 0
Re: Self loathing
« Reply #52 on: October 27, 2013, 08:09:00 AM »
Quote from: Grizzfall
Quote from: Sgt12
Quote from: Grizzfall
Guys,
  I get the point. I will talk to Doc (my FIL) this weekend when i see him again. I do sound like a drama pussy. Sorry for that, just have always been a private person. (hence the secret dip and difficulty "drinking the kool-aide".) Fuck it. This quit will be my only quit so i might as well inform those around me. Yeah, accountability. Doc is as smart a man as they come...in his own way. Funny old irishman. I suppose he will understand. BTW i love the logic that there is always someone else who is more fucked up than you are. It is terrible but has a strange comfort to it.
Thanks guys,
-Neil
I had to surprise my FIL with my quit, too. He didn't know I dipped. My wife might have mentioned it to him once following one of the times when she caught me...

He was very cool about it. He did not pass an ounce of judgment. He told me good job. I don't know, bro... Every situation is different but I'd suggest coming clean.

I know I'm damn proud of my quit. I tell people about it as much as I can. "Oh, I didn't even know you chewed," they say. I know. Big time ninja dipping but these, to me, are the consequences... And in sharing my quit, I believe I have positively impacted some people (one guy is 30 days quit without KTC after hearing I was quit).

Just blabbing now, bro. I'm proud to be quit with you today and every day.
SGT,
Its interesting that you mention pride in your quit as an empowering device. I am now proud of my quit, and grow more each day. When i used nic everyday this was not the case. For me, the first couple months were great. I would retire to the basement workshop to build whatever interested me. Some nights i worked on building "piglet" the mini bike.
Other nights i would teardown some broken portion of piglet just to see how it worked. Everything seemed interesting at first.
The point is that nicotine has a way of claiming credit for anything positve. Any night I spent workinging on a fun project, was a night i could chew. I would retire to the basement shop as soon as dinner was over. In went a pinch of cope fom the tin hidden on the duct work. And then...peace.
You have to remember, I was 15 at this time and living under my parents rule. Plus...
Privacy was hard to come by at that age. Nobody bothered you in the basement, and i knew it was just me, piglet, and the chew can of infinite possibility.

It didnt take long for my nic addled brain to associate shop time with chew, and chew with physical work, and i already new how physical work led to success. Done. That was all it took.
But the worst part of those days is how I would CREDIT the nic hussy. I honestly thought my accomplishments were due to the secret diping. Tired? Chew. Bord? Chew. Build a mini bike? Chew. The tin was always there to give me power over any problem in my way. Once i turned 16 there was nothing worth doing if a pinch didnt come along too. And that...is true addiction.

Hear we are now, only a few days into removing dip from our lives. For my brain, that means removing the drug that makes all other parts of life possible. I felt useless well into the second week of quit.
Until i realized...that i could take the garbage out without a fresh pinch. Later i found i could walk the dog without scrambling for a tin. These moments grew in numbers until i finally got what message everyone is talking about here. Nicotine never helped me do anything better. It just added complexity and stress to my life. Fuck that.
Im still a newbie 3 week quitter but i can say i dont miss the anxiety of constantly knowing the volume of chew i have left. I can walk out the door, hop in the truck, and not worry about how to get my next can. That is freedom, and all the hurt so far is well worth it.
Stay quit bro,
Grizzfall
Great job bro. You are uncovering the lies daily. It's one thing for us to tell you the lies, but when you start uncovering them yourself it means you are healing. One day at a time and you can have back a lot of what the poison has stolen. Never again for any reason and you can keep it. Glad to be quit with you .
Hof date may 25, 2013
HoF Speech


The poison sucks. I hate it. I hated it this morning, I hated it at noon, I hated it at supper and I hate it tonight. I enjoy hating it so much I'm going to wake up tomorrow and start over hating it. I quit with anyone that wants to hate it with me.

Offline Grizzfall

  • Quitter
  • **
  • Posts: 469
  • Interests: Staying quit.Staying sane.Being more productive
  • Likes Given: 0
Re: Self loathing
« Reply #51 on: October 27, 2013, 03:30:00 AM »
Quote from: Sgt12
Quote from: Grizzfall
Guys,
  I get the point. I will talk to Doc (my FIL) this weekend when i see him again. I do sound like a drama pussy. Sorry for that, just have always been a private person. (hence the secret dip and difficulty "drinking the kool-aide".) Fuck it. This quit will be my only quit so i might as well inform those around me. Yeah, accountability. Doc is as smart a man as they come...in his own way. Funny old irishman. I suppose he will understand. BTW i love the logic that there is always someone else who is more fucked up than you are. It is terrible but has a strange comfort to it.
Thanks guys,
-Neil
I had to surprise my FIL with my quit, too. He didn't know I dipped. My wife might have mentioned it to him once following one of the times when she caught me...

He was very cool about it. He did not pass an ounce of judgment. He told me good job. I don't know, bro... Every situation is different but I'd suggest coming clean.

I know I'm damn proud of my quit. I tell people about it as much as I can. "Oh, I didn't even know you chewed," they say. I know. Big time ninja dipping but these, to me, are the consequences... And in sharing my quit, I believe I have positively impacted some people (one guy is 30 days quit without KTC after hearing I was quit).

Just blabbing now, bro. I'm proud to be quit with you today and every day.
SGT,
Its interesting that you mention pride in your quit as an empowering device. I am now proud of my quit, and grow more each day. When i used nic everyday this was not the case. For me, the first couple months were great. I would retire to the basement workshop to build whatever interested me. Some nights i worked on building "piglet" the mini bike.
Other nights i would teardown some broken portion of piglet just to see how it worked. Everything seemed interesting at first.
The point is that nicotine has a way of claiming credit for anything positve. Any night I spent workinging on a fun project, was a night i could chew. I would retire to the basement shop as soon as dinner was over. In went a pinch of cope fom the tin hidden on the duct work. And then...peace.
You have to remember, I was 15 at this time and living under my parents rule. Plus...
Privacy was hard to come by at that age. Nobody bothered you in the basement, and i knew it was just me, piglet, and the chew can of infinite possibility.

It didnt take long for my nic addled brain to associate shop time with chew, and chew with physical work, and i already new how physical work led to success. Done. That was all it took.
But the worst part of those days is how I would CREDIT the nic hussy. I honestly thought my accomplishments were due to the secret diping. Tired? Chew. Bord? Chew. Build a mini bike? Chew. The tin was always there to give me power over any problem in my way. Once i turned 16 there was nothing worth doing if a pinch didnt come along too. And that...is true addiction.

Hear we are now, only a few days into removing dip from our lives. For my brain, that means removing the drug that makes all other parts of life possible. I felt useless well into the second week of quit.
Until i realized...that i could take the garbage out without a fresh pinch. Later i found i could walk the dog without scrambling for a tin. These moments grew in numbers until i finally got what message everyone is talking about here. Nicotine never helped me do anything better. It just added complexity and stress to my life. Fuck that.
Im still a newbie 3 week quitter but i can say i dont miss the anxiety of constantly knowing the volume of chew i have left. I can walk out the door, hop in the truck, and not worry about how to get my next can. That is freedom, and all the hurt so far is well worth it.
Stay quit bro,
Grizzfall
-Grizzfall
"This personal torture has a good ending right?"

Offline Sgt12

  • Quitter
  • **
  • Posts: 224
  • Likes Given: 0
Re: Self loathing
« Reply #50 on: October 26, 2013, 05:37:00 AM »
Quote from: Grizzfall
Guys,
I get the point. I will talk to Doc (my FIL) this weekend when i see him again. I do sound like a drama pussy. Sorry for that, just have always been a private person. (hence the secret dip and difficulty "drinking the kool-aide".) Fuck it. This quit will be my only quit so i might as well inform those around me. Yeah, accountability. Doc is as smart a man as they come...in his own way. Funny old irishman. I suppose he will understand. BTW i love the logic that there is always someone else who is more fucked up than you are. It is terrible but has a strange comfort to it.
Thanks guys,
-Neil
I had to surprise my FIL with my quit, too. He didn't know I dipped. My wife might have mentioned it to him once following one of the times when she caught me...

He was very cool about it. He did not pass an ounce of judgment. He told me good job. I don't know, bro... Every situation is different but I'd suggest coming clean.

I know I'm damn proud of my quit. I tell people about it as much as I can. "Oh, I didn't even know you chewed," they say. I know. Big time ninja dipping but these, to me, are the consequences... And in sharing my quit, I believe I have positively impacted some people (one guy is 30 days quit without KTC after hearing I was quit).

Just blabbing now, bro. I'm proud to be quit with you today and every day.
Cave: 11/28/13
New Quit Date: 11/29/13

Don't ever get complacent.

Offline Grizzfall

  • Quitter
  • **
  • Posts: 469
  • Interests: Staying quit.Staying sane.Being more productive
  • Likes Given: 0
Re: Self loathing
« Reply #49 on: October 26, 2013, 03:22:00 AM »
Sir, that was an excellent analysis of my dentist rant. Thanks for the point by point breakdown. As i wrote it last night it just poured out of my head in one steady stream. No proof reading, just writing. Re-reading it today makes me aware of how far my moods still swing. Some of the shit I, and other quitters post here would be admissable evidence for an insanity plea.
Just thinking here...but...

Can you imagine a man-slaughter or 2nd degree murder trial where the defense uses nicotine withdrawl for an insanity plea. No juror would buy that shit. People dont lose it, shift through three lanes of traffic at 70mph, then pass on the right shoulder to get in front of the guy who, "gave me a bad look." Oh, they also dont spike the brakes causing the "bad look" driver to rear end the defendent and be forcibly ejected through the windshield. He was found dead on impact in the bed of the defendants truck. Now we have a murder trial.
(This could have been avoided with better use of seatbelts, but everybody misses that point)
Anyway, now the family of the "bad look" dead guy is pissed. They want to see the defendant serve time for taking away one of their own. The DA says they have a good case for 2nd degree murder but the family wants the better odds of jail time with a manslaughter charge. The trial begins with a fair amount of local media coverage. Images of family members in the court room are all over the 5 o'clock news. They quietly sit though the trial with angry scowls across their faces. (Ironically it was this "look" from the deceased that started the whole thing.) Even before proceedings begin, everyone knows the outcome. This guy is guilty. He intentionally used his vehichle as a weapon to harm an innocent driver. That innocent driver's only fault is that he was born with a perpetual frown that evokes helpless insecurity in all who view it.
This is how the DA presents his case during opening arguments. He concludes by reminding the jury that no one deserves to die for giving a bad look on the highway. "No!" he tells the jury, "the defendant is a capable murderer for which society has no use!"
Following the DA's opener, everyone expects the rest of the trial to be procedural at best. Finish the trial, maximum jail time, no parole. One more killer off the street. Done.
But this is where the real story starts. This is where a young defense attorney's secret nicotine addiction enters his professional realm. The very demon he has been hiding from everyone is now his best chance to win his first high-profile case. His law firm put him on this case to lose easily and quietly. Letting the new guy take the impossible defense case is standard opporating procedure. Fuck it, everyone still makes a salery. But as the little demon awakens again, he begins to see a way - a way to keep the defendant free, and furthur his own career.

Insanity plea. The defendant was simply not himself at the time of the accident.

Quiet laughter could be heard as our aspiring young attourney introduced a motion for dismissal on these grounds. Anyone who's watched a few episodes of law and order knows that insanity is difficult to prove. Even with testimony from respected medical professionals the chances were slim. And to be fair to the doctors, who among them would jeoprodize their career by testifying to a lost cause? As these realizations warmed over the assembled witnesses, their curiosity grew. Hushed utterences and unsure glances flew about the room. What was this fresh outta law school boy trying to do?
Ahh, but here is where our attourney's recent graduation from law school becomes his strength.
It started in his highschool AP classes. A friend offered him a pinch of chery skoal during a marathon study session. Damn if he didn't ace the next exam. From then on, study, school, and dip was his holy trinity. One could not exist without the other. As he excelled through highschool, through undergraduate work at Georgetown, through an MBA at Rutgers and finally Yale Law that little tin of cherry skoal was always by his side. She was the goddess that had blessed him with all things good in life.
Still, this fellow is no fool. Upon law school graduation he left his sweet little cherry behind. For weeks he was a wreck. Sweats, insomnia, cant shit, cant think, cant live. With his last shred of self control fraying, he discovered the KTC Website. He discovered a whole world of people just as fucked up as he was. He found comfort in the stories of quitters who's lives were upended by their quit. Failing realtionships, irrational anger, unjustified fights, panic attacks, emotional breakdowns...were the norm here. It was a collection of people expressing themselves and their insanity from quitting nicotine. While he empathized with the freakshow and their stories, he knew he was not like them. He was a success on his own. So he quit on his own and memories of those first few weeks faded away.
Soon after graduation he landed a criminal defense job with chicago's most connnected firm. This was the big time. The parters defended clients with everything to lose and money to pay attorneys to ensure they didn't. Fuck the morals. He hadn't put himself through a lifetime of schooling to be a public defendant. Student loans, a new mortgage, the car payment, and his ever increasing selection of 3-piece suits cost a shitload. Pay day was coming soon. His job was to keep the firm's clients out of jail. Period.
Now in the court room he smiled at his little demon. Our savvy young attourney supoened KTC for copies of it's members' posts. He admitted into evidence copies of new members's introductions. This is where the truly disturbed wrote the musings of their nicotine deprived minds. Most intros were from members less than one week quit. Then, in a chessmaster's planned style of impending checkmate, he called expert witness to review the introductions. One counseler, two psychiastrists, and one psychologist independantly stated that based upon review of the given posts, the authors of said posts showed clear signs of insanity. Lack of normal behavioral patterns was most often sited, with one professional commenting that depravity of this sort was only seen in training films.
Small pamphlets containing samples of KTC threads were given to the jurors to read. CHECK.
The next morning, a friday, the defense completed the job. The defendant was put on the stand. Our young attorney went through the standard questions answered only by, "i didn"t know, im so sorry," and plenty of tears from the stand. Typical.
Then, the question of the defendent's tobacco history came. After a few prosecutorial objections it was admitted that our driver chewed cope snuff since he was 12. The good stuff. Now, twenty years later he was still struggling to quit. The jurors and all assembled could see the glow in his eyes as he testified about his addiction. Just saying the word "copenhagen" a second time for the stenographer brought him obvious pleasure. "CO - PEN - HAG - EN," he said trying to hold onto each syllable for as long as possible. CHECKMATE. This is what the defense had hoped for. Everyone can recognize the passion of an addict for his drug - and - the instability that comes with the loss of it.
To seal the case, records of the defendents membership in KTC were presented showing that the accident occurred on the third day of his "quit". Having learned the horrors in the mind of a newly quit addict, the jury needed no more. It was also noted that the defendent no longer had a pressence on the site 2 days following the accident and was assumed to have given up quitting.
Only now did the DA see where this newbie defender was leading everyone. Cross examination wasn't memorable. Following closing arguments, the jury returned in under an hour with a " not guilty by reason of insanity" verdict. That was it. Done.

Epilogue:
To celebrate his victory, our heroic young attorney went to the courthouse paper stand and promptly purchased a fresh can of cherry skoal. After all, it was this girl who helped him win an unwinnable case. He popped his first cherry with the help of cherry skoal. Homage needed to be paid after the past six months and it bewilderd him why he had left her out of his life this long.

The defendent went home to his family but couldn't communicate to them the torture he felt inside. He had killed someone in a fit of rage and it tore him up. Nights became filled with warm whiskey, the blue glow of silenced television, and crumbles of snuff constantly about the couch. His work suffered and when it ended so did his marriage.

The family of the deceased went on with their ways. They were one fewer and lonlier than ever.

The defense law firm gained considerable fan fare for the court case. They were able to improve their list of clients on a national scale. A recent victory defending a Detroit Lion's player in the murder of a prostitue was well publicized. It was another seemingly unwinnable case. The athlete was credited later that season for the Lion's superbowl victory.

And as always, one winner always persists. One more in the plus column for the little cherry BITCH.
-Grizzfall
"This personal torture has a good ending right?"

Offline DippinDave911

  • Quitter
  • **
  • Posts: 356
  • Quit Date: May 06, 2019
  • Likes Given: 0
Re: Self loathing
« Reply #48 on: October 25, 2013, 03:33:00 AM »
Quote from: Grizzfall
In regards to the "There is always someone more fucked up than you" comment -thank you-
Speciffically, thank you DippenDave.
I read portions of your intro, as per your recommmendation, and have become much more comfortable with my own erratic mental state. You set a high bar. And congrats on having the humility to make others aware of it. Quit on.
Grizz, glad you took my advice and checked out my intro. Coming to terms with the fact that I am, and always will be, an addict was really hard for me to do. But I feel that it has helped me more now that I can say it outloud. One less burden on my journey to being quit.
Quote from: Grizzfall
In the last two years i pushed the issue by telling my dentist i chewed. I think i wanted to be disciplined for my addiction. That, or be justified for my own self imposed guilt. His utter disgust at my confession would have been a motivator. Instead.....a dull eyed response of generic "you should quit becase of Etc etc etc."  Where was the rage i expected. Where was the anger of a man who's profession i shit on daily. Seriously, if someone vandalized something i built, i would be pissed. The dentist is the gatekeeper of your tooth health. I stuffed dirt on his project for 15 yrs and told him so. Yet...no anger.
Two explanations:
1. His practice is in a rural community with a greater than average chewing population and He is desensitized to it.
2. He looks at chew as job security for himself. Do the math.
A bunch of us were actually just talking about this not an hour ago in chat. They really just seem to not give a shit either way. While I would agree that explanation number 1 is probably a considerable part of the problem, Im throwing in my chips on explanation 2. I would normally expect more of a reaction, much the same as you did. But after playing the game for a long time (doctors, not dentist) ive come to the conclusion that they 1. dont give a shit and 2. as long as you are paying they dont care what the fuck is going on.
Quote from: Grizzfal
Yet, i was optimistic. My hirosima sized "i quit chewing" statement barely registered a mouse fart on this guys richter scale. Im not kidding. There was almost no change in the mood of the room. Dr. Dentist may have added a side bar about how quitting was a good life choice. He managed to get that out before falling back into agribusiness gossip. The want-to-be-land Baron dentist did seem to examine all my soft tissue with extra attention. He said everything looked good and I'm happy with that.
Gotta say, I love your description of this. Glad to hear that all is "good" in your mouth.
Quote from: Grizzfall

    My main point here is that this guy is a fucking sociopath and i am realizing this during my quit. He doesnt care whether you chew or dont. Either way he benefits. If you chew, you need more dental work, if you dont, then you are his success story. I wouldnt be as bothered if the guy just took a side, but no. I tell him i chew - nothing. I tell him i quit - nothing. Teeth are this guys business and he might as well huff an ether rag while consulting patients. Fuck him. Im getting a new Dentist. I want a female, with a whip that will threaten pain if i ever chew again. Thats oral healthcare that works.
I see that not only do you "get it" here on the site, but you also "get it" on the outside. They dont give a shit about you or me. They only care that a steady stream of your hard earned money is making its way into their already over stuffed pockets. The only difference between them and us is they have a fancy paper saying they are over qualified to tell us what we already know. When you find that new dentist, you just let me know...Thats my kind of dentist.
Quote from: Grizzfall
That is my reflection for the day. Some exaggeration was used for effect. Either way i am damn proud of my quit and understand that it is not a big deal to anyone else. Its mine. Fuck them.
I am glad to see you regularly updating your intro, and I honestly look forward to it when you do. This is a great way for us to interact and an even better way for you to vent. I don't feel this was exaggerated at all. Its complete and utter bullshit that we have to pay through the ass to see these incompetent asswipes in the first place. You have every right to be proud of your quit, but know that it is a very big deal to each and every one of us here. We are all proud of you.

Keep on quittin Grizz. You are a huge inspiration to me and I look forward to times like this when I can help you out. (I hope im helpin) Proud of you man.

Dave, 85 days quit and counting.

Offline Grizzfall

  • Quitter
  • **
  • Posts: 469
  • Interests: Staying quit.Staying sane.Being more productive
  • Likes Given: 0
Re: Self loathing
« Reply #47 on: October 25, 2013, 01:51:00 AM »
In regards to the "There is always someone more fucked up than you" comment -thank you-
Speciffically, thank you DippenDave.
I read portions of your intro, as per your recommmendation, and have become much more comfortable with my own erratic mental state. You set a high bar. And congrats on having the humility to make others aware of it. Quit on.

I went to the dentist today for my 6 month cleaning. It struck me that i have put myself through this awkward scenario twice a year, for my whole life. Yeah, so my parents covered it until age 18 but ever after it was on me.
Looking back i find it ironic that i feared going to the dentist because of what he might say regarding my gums. Pretty fucking obvious they've receaded. Yet i would pay out of pocket for this experience and then feel justified chewing for another 6 months. If the dentist didnt find anything wrong - CHEW ON!
That has got to be nicotine logic.
In the last two years i pushed the issue by telling my dentist i chewed. I think i wanted to be disciplined for my addiction. That, or be justified for my own self imposed guilt. His utter disgust at my confession would have been a motivator.
Instead.....a dull eyed response of generic "you should quit becase of Etc etc etc." Where was the rage i expected. Where was the anger of a man who's profession i shit on daily. Seriously, if someone vandalized something i built, i would be pissed. The dentist is the gatekeeper of your tooth health. I stuffed dirt on his project for 15 yrs and told him so. Yet...no anger.
Two explanations:
1. His practice is in a rural community with a greater than average chewing population and He is desensitized to it.
2. He looks at chew as job security for himself. Do the math.

There i was today, sitting in the chair, mulling over the above history. I was proud to be there. Fucking proud to roll into the dentist office, all of 19 days quit, and just waiting to tell someone at the first opportunity.
The higenist did the standard clean and polish. After our obigatory small talk and good byes, i readied myself for the man - Dr. Dentist - ... I wanted to be casual , to just work into conversation the fact that i quit. Thats the kinda shit that makes a dentist's day right?
We shook hands hello and as i lay down on the chair we began the standard 'catch up on the last 6 months' conversation. I couldn't contain myself. Less than one minute into the conversation i made a logical bridge from local agribusiness, to sunflowers, to their seeds, to "oh by the way, i quit chewing." I know i forced the point, but fuck it, I am proud and Dr. Dentist would celebrate with me. He would be so overcome with pride that he would declare a victory for the day, and the paid afternoon off for all employees! Thats how i envisioned things going down.
Yet, i was optimistic. My hirosima sized "i quit chewing" statement barely registered a mouse fart on this guys richter scale. Im not kidding. There was almost no change in the mood of the room. Dr. Dentist may have added a side bar about how quitting was a good life choice. He managed to get that out before falling back into agribusiness gossip. The want-to-be-land Baron dentist did seem to examine all my soft tissue with extra attention. He said everything looked good and I'm happy with that.
My main point here is that this guy is a fucking sociopath and i am realizing this during my quit. He doesnt care whether you chew or dont. Either way he benefits. If you chew, you need more dental work, if you dont, then you are his success story. I wouldnt be as bothered if the guy just took a side, but no. I tell him i chew - nothing. I tell him i quit - nothing. Teeth are this guys business and he might as well huff an ether rag while consulting patients. Fuck him. Im getting a new Dentist. I want a female, with a whip that will threaten pain if i ever chew again. Thats oral healthcare that works.

That is my reflection for the day. Some exaggeration was used for effect. Either way i am damn proud of my quit and understand that it is not a big deal to anyone else. Its mine. Fuck them.
-Grizzfall
"This personal torture has a good ending right?"

Offline ParadigmDawg

  • Quitter
  • **
  • Posts: 1,225
  • Interests: Mountain BikingRoad BikingHome Audio
  • Likes Given: 0
Re: Self loathing
« Reply #46 on: October 22, 2013, 10:26:00 AM »
I work with doctors for a living and I am certain that your FIL will handle this completely different than what you are thinking. He will look at this and treat it as a professional and it will not affect your personal relationship at all.

If that still makes you nervous, go see another doc.
Oh little worm-dirt...you are so scary...F' OFF...!!!