Day 140 and counting

[Greg5280]

I read another article (can't find it now to post the quotes) that essentially explained that "addicts are addicts." Meaning, after nicotine has left the body, our cravings are not really cravings for nicotine... they're cravings for dopamine. After years of nicotine use we've created extra "gates" in our brain through which the excess amount of dopamine was able to get to the brain. Now that we've stopped using, those "gates" are huuuungry. We get normal-sized shots of dopamine when we eat, have sex, exercise, complete tasks, etc... but we may also find our cravings pop up soon after (like the post-meal crave)... that's because the brain is used to getting bigger drops of dopamine at a time... so the natural ways we produce it aren't equal to the unnatural/drug-induced ways. So it wants more. The brain doesn't know (or care) what source is feeding it the excessive amounts of dopamine it's used to. So, often nicotine quitters will transition to another addiction - usually alcohol - and they're not actually breaking addiction at all, only shifting it to a new dopamine-source. The article advised steering clear of all drugs/alcohol during the first 100 days of nicotine-quitting so that the brain has time to recover and re-learn proper balance.

[anniesdaddy]

Saw this today and wanted to add it to my intro page. Scary drug!

Nicotine as a dopamine releasing drug, aka heroin and other opiates:

"Nicotine and opiates are very different drugs, but the endpoint, with respect to the control of dopamine signaling, is almost identical. It demonstrates the seriousness of tobacco addiction, equating its grip on the individual to that of heroin. It reinforces the fact that these addictions are very physiological in nature and that breaking away from the habit is certainly more than just mind over matter."
- Daniel McGehee, University of Chicago Medical Center.

"The 10 Hardest Drugs to Kick"
- by Jacqueline Detwiler

The chemical makeup of drugs guarantee that certain drugs are more addictive than others. The hardest ones to kick actually train your brain to crave them. A team of researchers led by professor David Nutt of London's Imperial College recently set out to determine which drugs were most harmful based on their addictive properties. Dutch scientists replicated the London study and devised a "dependency rating" that measured addictive potency of the biggest drugs out there on a precisely calibrated scale of 0-to-3.
1. Heroin - 2.89
2. Crack Cocaine - 2.82
3. Nicotine - 2.82 (tied with Crack for second "most addictive and hardest to kick" drug!!!)
4. Methadone - 2.68
5. Crystal Meth - 2.24
6. Alcohol - 2.13
7. Cocaine - 2.13
8. Amphetamines - 1.95
9. Benzodiazepines - 1.89
10. GHB - 1.71


The first 100 days:

"There is growing evidence that on average, it takes about 90 days for the brain to break free of the immediate effects of the drug and reset itself. Researchers at Yale University call this 90-to-100 day period the 'sleeper effect,' a time during which the brain's proper... functions gradually recover."
- Tony O'Neill, in his article, "The 100-Day Hangover"

"Whatever substance you're detoxing from, there's always an attachment. We're talking about people who are cutting off something that has started to feel as vital to them as the air they breathe. So you inevitably go through this painful period of wrenching yourself away from it, and now you're feeling lousy. It's pretty common for many recovering addicts to ask, 'Is this the reward I get for getting clean?' Most people are led to believe that once they stop using, their life will start to get better, when in reality this next period can really suck. But it gets better."
- Dr. Arnold Washton, author of Willpower is Not Enough: Recovering From Addictions of Every Kind

Not replacing nicotine-addiction with other dopamine-releasing-addictions:

"If you stop using your drug of choice but continue to use alcohol or another drug, you're saying that you don't want to learn new coping skills and that you don't want to change your life. You're saying that you want to continue to rely on drugs or alcohol to escape, relax, and reward yourself. But if you don't learn those new skills, then you won't have changed, and your addiction will catch up with you all over again.
- www.AddictionsAndRecovery.org

Wow..this is some seriously good stuff for Day 2 reading. Thanks Greg!

[30yraddict]

always worth a bump.

Hi Greg!

[Scowick65]

Bump. Good info in here, new guys.

x2

[G]

Bump. Good info in here, new guys.

[basshaug]

Greg, I want to thank you for sharing several posts from your intro in my (aug 14) and the subsequent couple of months. You shared stories and data compiled from various research and articles that you read regarding the lies and bull shit tactics of big tobacco. The information that you shared, lit a fire inside of me that wants to fight back. I want to fight back by helping as many people as possible break free from the chains of slavery nicotine has on them. Thank you for strengthening my quit.

[Greg5280]

1800 PRIMETIME!!

I got an opener for ya 'winker'

Nice Greg!

Those stingy women have still not given up an opener!!

I am still working them though.

'Crazy'

[Nolaq]

1800 PRIMETIME!!

I got an opener for ya 'winker'

Nice Greg!

[cbird65]

1800 PRIMETIME!!

I got an opener for ya 'winker'

[Air Force ADDICT]

Great article. Thanks for sharing.

[rdad]

Saw this today and wanted to add it to my intro page. Scary drug!

Nicotine as a dopamine releasing drug, aka heroin and other opiates:

"Nicotine and opiates are very different drugs, but the endpoint, with respect to the control of dopamine signaling, is almost identical. It demonstrates the seriousness of tobacco addiction, equating its grip on the individual to that of heroin. It reinforces the fact that these addictions are very physiological in nature and that breaking away from the habit is certainly more than just mind over matter."
- Daniel McGehee, University of Chicago Medical Center.

"The 10 Hardest Drugs to Kick"
- by Jacqueline Detwiler

The chemical makeup of drugs guarantee that certain drugs are more addictive than others. The hardest ones to kick actually train your brain to crave them. A team of researchers led by professor David Nutt of London's Imperial College recently set out to determine which drugs were most harmful based on their addictive properties. Dutch scientists replicated the London study and devised a "dependency rating" that measured addictive potency of the biggest drugs out there on a precisely calibrated scale of 0-to-3.
1. Heroin - 2.89
2. Crack Cocaine - 2.82
3. Nicotine - 2.82 (tied with Crack for second "most addictive and hardest to kick" drug!!!)
4. Methadone - 2.68
5. Crystal Meth - 2.24
6. Alcohol - 2.13
7. Cocaine - 2.13
8. Amphetamines - 1.95
9. Benzodiazepines - 1.89
10. GHB - 1.71


The first 100 days:

"There is growing evidence that on average, it takes about 90 days for the brain to break free of the immediate effects of the drug and reset itself. Researchers at Yale University call this 90-to-100 day period the 'sleeper effect,' a time during which the brain's proper... functions gradually recover."
- Tony O'Neill, in his article, "The 100-Day Hangover"

"Whatever substance you're detoxing from, there's always an attachment. We're talking about people who are cutting off something that has started to feel as vital to them as the air they breathe. So you inevitably go through this painful period of wrenching yourself away from it, and now you're feeling lousy. It's pretty common for many recovering addicts to ask, 'Is this the reward I get for getting clean?' Most people are led to believe that once they stop using, their life will start to get better, when in reality this next period can really suck. But it gets better."
- Dr. Arnold Washton, author of Willpower is Not Enough: Recovering From Addictions of Every Kind

Not replacing nicotine-addiction with other dopamine-releasing-addictions:

"If you stop using your drug of choice but continue to use alcohol or another drug, you're saying that you don't want to learn new coping skills and that you don't want to change your life. You're saying that you want to continue to rely on drugs or alcohol to escape, relax, and reward yourself. But if you don't learn those new skills, then you won't have changed, and your addiction will catch up with you all over again.
- www.AddictionsAndRecovery.org

I read another article (can't find it now to post the quotes) that essentially explained that "addicts are addicts." Meaning, after nicotine has left the body, our cravings are not really cravings for nicotine... they're cravings for dopamine. After years of nicotine use we've created extra "gates" in our brain through which the excess amount of dopamine was able to get to the brain. Now that we've stopped using, those "gates" are huuuungry. We get normal-sized shots of dopamine when we eat, have sex, exercise, complete tasks, etc... but we may also find our cravings pop up soon after (like the post-meal crave)... that's because the brain is used to getting bigger drops of dopamine at a time... so the natural ways we produce it aren't equal to the unnatural/drug-induced ways. So it wants more. The brain doesn't know (or care) what source is feeding it the excessive amounts of dopamine it's used to. So, often nicotine quitters will transition to another addiction - usually alcohol - and they're not actually breaking addiction at all, only shifting it to a new dopamine-source. The article advised steering clear of all drugs/alcohol during the first 100 days of nicotine-quitting so that the brain has time to recover and re-learn proper balance.

That was an interesting read. I agree..there is a big difference between being dip free and being CLEAN. Thanks for posting that.

[Greg5280]

Saw this today and wanted to add it to my intro page. Scary drug!

Nicotine as a dopamine releasing drug, aka heroin and other opiates:

"Nicotine and opiates are very different drugs, but the endpoint, with respect to the control of dopamine signaling, is almost identical. It demonstrates the seriousness of tobacco addiction, equating its grip on the individual to that of heroin. It reinforces the fact that these addictions are very physiological in nature and that breaking away from the habit is certainly more than just mind over matter."
- Daniel McGehee, University of Chicago Medical Center.

"The 10 Hardest Drugs to Kick"
- by Jacqueline Detwiler

The chemical makeup of drugs guarantee that certain drugs are more addictive than others. The hardest ones to kick actually train your brain to crave them. A team of researchers led by professor David Nutt of London's Imperial College recently set out to determine which drugs were most harmful based on their addictive properties. Dutch scientists replicated the London study and devised a "dependency rating" that measured addictive potency of the biggest drugs out there on a precisely calibrated scale of 0-to-3.
1. Heroin - 2.89
2. Crack Cocaine - 2.82
3. Nicotine - 2.82 (tied with Crack for second "most addictive and hardest to kick" drug!!!)
4. Methadone - 2.68
5. Crystal Meth - 2.24
6. Alcohol - 2.13
7. Cocaine - 2.13
8. Amphetamines - 1.95
9. Benzodiazepines - 1.89
10. GHB - 1.71


The first 100 days:

"There is growing evidence that on average, it takes about 90 days for the brain to break free of the immediate effects of the drug and reset itself. Researchers at Yale University call this 90-to-100 day period the 'sleeper effect,' a time during which the brain's proper... functions gradually recover."
- Tony O'Neill, in his article, "The 100-Day Hangover"

"Whatever substance you're detoxing from, there's always an attachment. We're talking about people who are cutting off something that has started to feel as vital to them as the air they breathe. So you inevitably go through this painful period of wrenching yourself away from it, and now you're feeling lousy. It's pretty common for many recovering addicts to ask, 'Is this the reward I get for getting clean?' Most people are led to believe that once they stop using, their life will start to get better, when in reality this next period can really suck. But it gets better."
- Dr. Arnold Washton, author of Willpower is Not Enough: Recovering From Addictions of Every Kind

Not replacing nicotine-addiction with other dopamine-releasing-addictions:

"If you stop using your drug of choice but continue to use alcohol or another drug, you're saying that you don't want to learn new coping skills and that you don't want to change your life. You're saying that you want to continue to rely on drugs or alcohol to escape, relax, and reward yourself. But if you don't learn those new skills, then you won't have changed, and your addiction will catch up with you all over again.
- www.AddictionsAndRecovery.org

I read another article (can't find it now to post the quotes) that essentially explained that "addicts are addicts." Meaning, after nicotine has left the body, our cravings are not really cravings for nicotine... they're cravings for dopamine. After years of nicotine use we've created extra "gates" in our brain through which the excess amount of dopamine was able to get to the brain. Now that we've stopped using, those "gates" are huuuungry. We get normal-sized shots of dopamine when we eat, have sex, exercise, complete tasks, etc... but we may also find our cravings pop up soon after (like the post-meal crave)... that's because the brain is used to getting bigger drops of dopamine at a time... so the natural ways we produce it aren't equal to the unnatural/drug-induced ways. So it wants more. The brain doesn't know (or care) what source is feeding it the excessive amounts of dopamine it's used to. So, often nicotine quitters will transition to another addiction - usually alcohol - and they're not actually breaking addiction at all, only shifting it to a new dopamine-source. The article advised steering clear of all drugs/alcohol during the first 100 days of nicotine-quitting so that the brain has time to recover and re-learn proper balance.

[cbird65]

This should be on the must read list

Some heady stuff in there and damn this cat runs like his hair is on fire

[Greg5280]

This guyÂ’s walkinÂ’ down a street when he falls in a hole. The walls are so steep he canÂ’t get out.
A doctor passes by and the guy shouts up, “Hey you! Can you help me out?” The doctor writes a prescription, throws it down in the hole, and moves on.
Then a priest comes along and the guy shouts up, “Father, I’m down in this hole; can you help me out?” The priest writes out a prayer, throws it down in the hole and moves on.
Then a friend walks by. “Hey, Joe, it’s me. Can ya help me out?” And the friend jumps in the hole.

Our guy says, “Are ya stupid? Now we’re both down here.” The friend says, “Yeah, but I’ve been down here before and I know the way out.

[G]

Newbies,
If you are having trouble staying quit or deciding if you want to quit then read the article below.

Make sure you pay attention to the tactics used by Big Tobacco... For fuck sake sending kids ( 9, 10, 11...years old ) free cans ? Making Cherry flavored tobacco with less Nic so the kids could " get used" to the product.

Hard to believe I gave those fucks as much of my money as I did.. NEVER AGAIN FOR ANY REASON !!!


Tobacco Company Pays $5M In Groundbreaking Case

Settlement is nationÂ’s first involving smokeless product
By THOMAS B. SCHEFFEY

Kelly June Hill, Executrix, et al. v. U.S. Smokeless Tobacco: The Altria Group, successor to tobacco marketer United States Smokeless Tobacco of Greenwich, has settled for $5 million a lawsuit filed by the estate of a North Carolina man who died of tongue cancer.

The worker, Bobby Hill, initially went to an Ashville, N.C., lawyer, who referred his case to BridgeportÂ’s Koskoff, Koskoff  Bieder. Partners Antonio Ponvert III and Christopher Bernard launched a state court wrongful death action in Connecticut.
From the beginning, Ponvert said, Hill and his family wanted to draw attention to the danger of “dipping snuff” and to discourage youngsters from starting its addictive use.

“It’s the first time a plaintiff has won a wrongful death chewing tobacco verdict or settlement in the history of the industry,” said Ponvert. Altria, based in Richmond, Va., also owns Philip Morris, and has a corporate policy of not settling any individual consumer cases, he added. Altria Group spokesman Steve Callahan said, “U.S. Smokeless Tobacco is honoring an agreement it made in this case prior to its acquisition by Altria….We have no current intention to settle cases like this in the future.”

Historically, the tobacco industry has fiercely defended itself in the courts. And for decades, it denied that tobacco is addictive or a health risk. More recently, it has maintained that people know the risks of tobacco and they should take personal responsibility if they use it. In the industry, a no-settlement rule is standard.

But Bobby Hill, said Ponvert, “was an almost ideal client. Bobby Hill was 13 years old when he started using. He became addicted to this product when he was a child, long before warning labels were put on [packages] in 1987.” That fact, Ponvert said, “destroyed any personal responsibility-type defense that the industry likes to use.” The defendant retained five defense firms, including New York-based Skadden, Arps, Slate, Meagher  Flohm, and Winston  Strawn, with local counsel duties handled by Wiggin and Dana, in New Haven.
Attorney David S. Golub, of StamfordÂ’s Silver, Golub  Teitel, has handled other lawsuits against the tobacco industry, and was clearly impressed by the Altria settlement.

“This is unprecedented and amazing. There has never been, to my knowledge, a time when a tobacco company has settled a case. It’s fabulous lawyering, and a wonderful result,” Golub told the Law Tribune. “Every tobacco company fights tooth and nail, because they’re afraid that if they settle one case, they can never again say they won’t settle. This is groundbreaking.”

Smokeless tobacco, or snuff, comes in small cans and is sold under brand names such as Skoal or Copenhagen. It comes in a variety of “cuts,” which describe the lengths of the tobacco strands. The tobacco sits between the user’s cheek and gum. It’s different from chewing tobacco, which is a much longer cut that is literally chewed.

One previous snuff case has gone to trial. An Oklahoma plaintiff, Sean Marsee, contracted mouth cancer in the late 1980s after five years of chewing tobacco use, and USST medical experts testified that tumors caused by “dipping snuff” took 20 years to develop. The suit seeking $147 million resulted in a defense verdict for USST.

“Bobby Hill used for 20 years, so we would have been able to use their experts in the Marsee case against them here,” said Ponvert. The attorney said the needs of Hill’s widow and two children, 11 and 14, made a settlement for $5 million seem like a wiser course than holding out for more at trial – or maybe nothing. The process of reaching the settlement stage was long and rocky, requiring extensive discovery work and research.

In a 2002 deposition, USST Chairman and CEO Louis Bantle was questioned in another case, and he explained why some 12 million documents in USST files were stamped confidential. Under oath, he conceded they didn’t contain formulas or other business secrets. “A couple of years ago,” Bantle said, “a whole lot of lawyers came to company headquarters and they stamped ‘confidential’ on every single document we had in our possession, whether they were or not.” Ponvert said discovery was challenging, “for the opposite reason one would think.” The plaintiffs “got half a million pages of documents, which made searching them quite interesting. We found some stuff that was out of this world.”

Letters From Children
Some of the most significant material, said Ponvert, was in a cache of internal correspondence from young customers, aged 9 to 18, written between1978 and 1985. “We found about 50 letters from children to the company, and children’s letters would say, `I am 9 [or 10, 11, 14 or 15] years old, and have been using your product.” The kids had complaints and suggestions. “One was, ‘Please don’t raise the price on Skoal, because I only get $5 in allowance, and can’t afford the seven cans a week that I need,’” Ponvert recounted. “They’d say, ‘I really like the mint flavor, could you make it in a different cut?’

Those letters would be sent to the United States Smokeless Tobacco headquarters in Greenwich. According to the lawyers, a letter would be back to the child saying: “Thank you for your comments. We’ll consider your suggestions, and here are five free cans of Skoal.” After it became illegal to send tobacco to children in the late 1980s, the company sent young teens complimentary can openers and lids to keep their snuff moist and fresh.

Company correspondence supported a plan to introduce candy-flavored Skoal “Bandits” to hook young customers. “Bandits” are ground tobacco and flavorings placed in a tea bag-like fabric, with less nicotine so the beginner wouldn’t get too sick, Ponvert said.

“They had this very Machiavellian strategy to entice people into the market and keep them as they became more tolerant to the drug,” he said. “It’s well known that the average age for starting to use smokeless tobacco is between 9 and 11 years old. So it’s a product that’s designed for kids, and is being used by and sold to kids.”

Altria Group obtained USST in 2009. On the Altria web site, the company emphasizes its commitment to prevent underage children from purchasing tobacco products. Its charts show the use of smoking tobacco products is declining. However, smokeless tobacco products remain popular, and may be on the rise, the charts indicate.
In some quarters, smokeless tobacco is touted as a less-lethal way to consume tobacco than smoking. But, Ponvert said, young people need to comprehend fully the potentially gruesome results.

“One of our experts described dying by mouth cancer as `death by autopsy,’” Ponvert said. “Literally, over a 10- or 12-month period, your face just falls away. At first, [Hill] lost part of his tongue. Then they took his whole tongue. Then it takes part of your jaw, and your cheeks and your gums. Then the tumor wound its way around his carotid artery and he died.” •

Here is some sobering reading for anyone who thinks quitting is a bad thing.

The letters to/from children. Wow.