Stuff I'm right about

[cbird65]

24th Floor bumpage
'oh yeah'

[Pinched]

4 years my friend awesome 'boob'

Holy shit Zam great job keep up the great work

Congrats brother on 4 years of freedom...bad ass

[traumagnet]

4 years my friend awesome 'boob'

Holy shit Zam great job keep up the great work

[D2maine]

4 years my friend awesome 'boob'

[Benjo]

OK, If I had known that this thread would stay with me here at KTC as my official intro, I definitely would have re-thunk the title. And I might have posted stuff that actually had to do with an introduction. So here goes a slightly less foggy, slightly more informative introduction.

Oh, but on the contrary, seeing that a guy with such a cantankerous beginning (neatly encapsulated in that title), made it to 1,000, well, that's inspiring.

Congratulations! and Thank You!

[Grizzly25]

Comma is a helluva achievement, congrats!

Congrats on getting your dangler!
'oh yeah'

[Done4Me]

Comma is a helluva achievement, congrats!

[zam]

...poof

[FMBM707]

Well put Zam.

[zam]

This guy does not get it...not yet anyway.
The above thread concerns me.

3. "Last, this psychosis that some members have that there has to be a great reason to cave is laughable. People fuck up an cave. There is no great reason. Its always a moment of weakness that gets them. " -H
Wrong....just...way wrong. There is always a reason. Most likely, there are multiple reasons. People do not just "fuck up and cave." That's crazy logic. That kind of thinking leads others to think caving is beyond one's control. This is THE most screwed up part of H's post. "Laughable?" Bull Shit. Insinuating that people simply "fuck up and cave" in a moment of "weakness" is laughable. And it's a freakin' insult to everyone that has burned a ton a bridges in order to stay quit. It's a insult to every day 5 quitter who put staying quit above one night at the local watering hole with buddies who don't yet realize they are slaves and pawns. It's an insult to anyone that does what it takes to stay quit...even when that means putting forth effort, planning and (yes) temporary discomfort.

[zam]

This guy does not get it...not yet anyway.

The above thread concerns me.

2. H insinuates strongly that there are many on this site that are not as clean as their number suggests. He is wrong. I can't prove it. There is no doubt a few. And there is no doubt that integrity issues occur. But he's wrong about the number. Way wrong. Simply put...most human beings avoid situations where their actions are in contrast to their statements/beliefs/ideals. (cognitive dissonance theory, in case your'e wondering). So it is my strong belief that the VAST majority (of the exceedingly small minority of "liars") simply do not stay here any length of time. Perpetuating a lie is not something that most people will go out of their way, EDD, to do. So they just...disappear. Or find "fault" with KTC and storm out. Whatever. The point is that I doubt very, very seriously that there is ANY significant population posting a number other than the truth. Here's an example of the ridiculousness of H's argument - Would someone post EDD for 947 days just to avoid admitting a cave? Would any significant (or any) number of people post roll EDD for 947 days if posting roll was basically 947 reminders that they were a lying scumbag with no integrity? The person able to do this would be 1 in a billion.... 99.9% of those who post lies (.001% of those posting) would simply fade out quickly...leaving KTC with....wow....a shit load of real quitters.

[zam]

This guy does not get it....not yet anyway.

The above thread concerns me.

1. It does not take balls to admit you caved and come back to KTC. Guys that come back to KTC after caving are mostly the same guys that come to KTC the first time - they are scared. They feel helpless and understand that, alone, they will fail again soon. They know that they are about to continue failing unless they do something....anything. These are the guys that just spent 10 minutes standing 3 inches away from the bathroom mirror deciding if that "thing" is going to end with a face removal. They are the ones almost in tears because they just realized that THEY are the one getting laid off...and it didn't help that they were late 3 times last month because they "had to" stop and buy dip. Etc.etc. The guys come here, and definitely the guys coming back, are here because they are scared. Balls has NOTHING to do with it. When you are drowning, does it take balls to grab on when someone throws you a rope? What DOES take balls? Laying open your weaknesses and failures takes balls...being honest and open about why you have F($ING FAILED over and over, and why you need to get this quit under way. It's damned painful to reopen that embarrassment and examine it. It's painful to tell others that your integrity was lacking. It hurts to admit that you were an idiot for telling people all those years that you did it because you "loved dipping." It's damned hard (it takes balls) to stay in the conversation when every fiber of your being wants to just crawl in a hole and pretend you did not make a series of VERY shitty decisions.

[D2maine]

You know, I'm not to the rant stage yet, but I'm close. Here' the rub...
In the last....many.....quit groups, the roll header is dominated by one thing. That one thing is NOT some awesome post about a quitters triumph. The header is NOT monopolized by some new youtube link that will make you laugh and get through another 30 minutes without tearing your lip out. The first thing a quitter reads is NOT some awesome saying thrown down the night before. The first thing you read is probably something telling you how not to fuck up roll. Or (most likely) the first thing you read is a list of guys that deserve to be "shamed". So here's my bitch.....why the hell is ROLL CALL so often monopolized by the very people that don't give a shit enough to PUT THERE OWN NAMES on it? Seriously! Anyone who had the misfortune of quitting with me in the early days knows that I do not shy away from unleashing a good rant on cavers, week day quitters, addict-logic speakers, etc. But on the ROLL? Why would I want that? The roll is the place that all of us QUITTERS get together. If some dipshit drops his name on there every 2 or 3 days, before disappearing altogether....that's his business. I'll send him a few PMs, maybe call him out in a separate post, but damned if I'm going to allow him (and his ilk) to dominate OUR (read:quitters) roll on the days he hasn't even bothered to show up! My roll is for quitters. My roll is a place where I go and say "look at all these bad asses! THEY have my back today." Now, you look at the roll and it's dominated by those who DO NOT have your back. It's dominated by those that choose NOT to quit with you today. That's bassackwards.

Roll call is the foundation of what we do here. It's what keeps us free. It deserves to be dominated by quitters.

Concur.

Honest to god, no bullshit truth.

That, and the f'ing header is as long as roll itself. :blink:

I think it is important to have the "first steps" and instructions for posting roll on the open group. Newbies need some direction. Once the groups closes then that info can be removed.
I do agree that the MIA/public shameing is not necessary and is probably not effective.

Thanks for thoughts, Snot. You're right about something, or some link, to help newbs post. But to clarify my position on MIA lists and "shame"...if public shaming will help to pull someones head out of there ass, give it a shot. I have no problem with that. BUT NOT ON THE ROLL. MIA lists...i think are VERY effective. But maybe I view the MIA list differently. When I (and other BoMBs) was making up MIA lists, the list would go up in the late afternoon most days. The point wasn't to dog the quitter for not posting roll (although we did that on occasion) In fact, it didn't matter if that guy ever saw the list or not. The list was not for the guy that missed roll. It was for the rest of us. The MIA list was made to encourage other quitters to reach out and get people to post roll TODAY. You see, they hadn't yet MISSED ROLL. The point of the MIA list was (in the BoMB) to see that they don't MISS ROLL TODAY. There are probably some good reasons to occasionally view who didn't post yesterday, but that information seems to be infinitely less valuable than who still needs to post TODAY.
My view....listing a group of people that didn't post yesterday is wasted effort. The spreadsheet will tell you that already. Getting someone to post TODAY is never wasted effort. You can't get a person to post "yesterday."

In case someone wonders how we used to do it, if not on the roll header, here is a typical BoMB MIA list. This is not something the BoMB pioneered.

you are correct Zam i liked it better that way also...this place could use a zam rant once in a while...

[D2maine]

derp

[J2b]

damn it....

Zam - in Oct12 I did the similar thing to your link,

in keeping the spreadsheet, around 4 pm eastern time I sent out the MIA list, separate from roll. It got the point across and even listed those who normally posted late per their schedule in a separated portion.

YES!

I am not sure when adding it the header became the new wave, I am sure it was done in 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012, and 2013 at various points, but the premise of roll was nailed in Zam's post - who is here, giving their word, today.

the MIA list in May 11 was the same thing - mid afternoon update of who was missing, start hitting the PM's and texts and calling. Get em on roll for the day. Fuck yesterday.