Forever Ever

[Aquaman43]

Day 222, the dreaded dentist visit. Only I've never dreaded the dentist. When I was in the AF we had to go every six months, and I've done that religiously since I left as well. My dental hygienist asked if I was still quit and I said, "yes, can't you tell." She told me I never had an issue with gum recession or stained teeth. Then she started telling me what see does see in some of the people that dip. I did not know that the stain people get from dipping is actually inside the tooth itself, not on the outside. Then she started talking about gum recession and I had to tune that out. What the actual fuck?
Lucky for me I'm not quitting because of the health and dental stuff, I just don't want to be a fucking slave. I swear to God one of the hardest things about the first hundred days was tapping my left rear pocking to check for dip and having an momentary anxiety attack because it was empty. I don't remember the last time I did that. Freedom, one step at a time. Oh, and them sweet ass pearly whites. 

[Aquaman43]

Today is day 209. I know I shouldn't be surprised by anything because this is my second time around, but I am. I had a project outside this weekend. I'm sure everyone that worked outside had or have triggers because that is just prime time for the bitch. But I was halfway through the project and I stopped cold. I realized I hadn't even thought about a dip. Savored that moment and finished the rest of the project without thinking about it either. I was thinking my back is killing me, but that never stopped me before.

[Aquaman43]

The Quit. I imagine if you stumble in here and say you're thinking about quitting, the overwhelming opinion would be, "do it now, right now." I don't think there is anything wrong with that. A lot of that stems from a community of addicts knowing that another addict has the extraordinary ability to talk themselves out of quitting, given enough time. I'm a plan ahead type of person, have been as long as I can remember. So, I made a plan. I wanted to try Chantix this time, so I researched it. Crazy ass drug, so if you're thinking about using it for your quit, I suggest you research it, talk to your doctor and be brutally honest. The thing I was most concerned about was anger. I had issues with anger my first time around. I talked to my doc, he said I might have vivid wild dreams. I always have vivid wild dreams, but I've been able to control my dreams since I was a kid. So, I took Chantix.

This is my experience on Chantix. I had no wild dreams outside of the ordinary, I had no anger issues. I started Chantix one week before my quit date. Around day 4 on Chantix, taking a dip did nothing. There was nothing there. That is what Chantix is supposed to do, block the nicotine receptors, and it did. So, day 4 through 7, I just went through the motions of dipping. You might be asking, why not just quit at that point then. I like to have a plan, and the Chantix plan is to continue dipping or smoking for the full week.

Day 1. I had mental withdrawals. I mitigated that with seeds and fake stuff. I settled on Baccoff Original. I had no fog my first week, I went through that with the last part of the week on Chantix. My first week was just fighting the mental aspects of quitting. Today is day 205 and I still have to fight those. Nowhere near as much as the first week or first month, but the nic bitch still hides in the bushes from time-to-time.

My first hundred days were relatively easy. I know how this place works and I know that it does work. Create accountability, expand that accountability when you can. Keep your mind busy, talk to your group, your quit friends, the vets. I also talked to my doc about supplements and settled on Ashwagandha for anxiety. I believe that is what fueled my rage and I couldn't be happier. Nick told me about Magnesium and I started using that in conjunction with Ashwagandha for great sleep and no rage.

Days 100 to 200? Cruise control. I haven't had a bad day in the last hundred days. I may have had bad moments, but fuck that bitch. I'm not giving her a full day. I will find a playlist, or a comedy skit, or just walk outside. If I had one piece of advice it would be don't allow yourself to sit in your own pity. Blame it on the nic bitch and then do something about it.

[MuleMan]

I'm going to address my cave today. That way I can move forward. I promised some people the whole story, but I don't think I was ready to face it myself until now.

About 200 or so days into my quit, my son was killed in a car accident. It wasn't a "boom" he's gone kind of thing, he spent one week in the ICU fighting for his life. After a week on life support, the doctors told us he had no brain function and was not going to recover. I can't imagine ever having a tougher moment in my life. A few days later, while I was in the funeral home, Loot called me and told me Cliff was dead. Anything I had left in me was just sucked out. But we had a strong crew, and with their help I stayed quit.

A few months later, all hell broke loose at the old site and we started this one. I clung to this site like it was the only thing keeping me alive. About a year and a half later during my yearly check-up, my doctor told me my kidneys were failing. The kidney specialists blamed the Ibuprofen I took (I played a lot of softball and it hurt), and the anti-depressants. I had rage, a lot of rage. Not just from my quit. My son's death, my wife's battle with depression, the pressure of opening a new office in Texas, I was one big ball of rage. My primary care doc told me I might want to consider going back to dipping. I was fucking stunned. This guy had been my doc for about 11 years and I couldn't believe he just told me that. One of the engineers I work with had a brother that was a heart surgeon. I say had because he has since passed due to colon cancer. But he offered to talk to me about what I was going through. In a 30 minute conversation, he told me the same thing. But, he said I could also talk to a psychologist. He said they had the ability to prescribe other drugs and drug cocktails that could help without messing up my kidneys. I wasn't going to a shrink.

About six months or so later, I caved. We can all debate about whether or not going back to the can was the best thing for me or not. But the reality is that a doctor that I trusted planted a seed that the addict in me watered and nurtured. And another doc concurred and I let that bitch become a giant bean stalk. I don't know if anything or anyone could have talked me off that ledge. The addict in me won that round and that's all it needs, just one win.

I look back on that now and wonder if there is anything I could have done to change that outcome. The answer is no, not with the attitude I had. I mentioned in my HOF speech that I always had that Outkast song in my head, Ms. Jackson. At 1000 days, I should have dismissed that song. I should have been able to dismiss that song much earlier, and I blame me, my attitude. I've seen hundreds of quitters talk about closing the door, or cutting the line, however you want to describe it. I didn't do that, I left the light on, left the door cracked, kept the line out.

I have a completely different attitude this time. I can tell you now, at Day 184, that my quit is stronger than Day 1000 in 2008. I'm not on any anti-depressants, except for Aswagandha. I have no rage, other than the typical stuff when you run into a no driving asshole. 
What I can tell you now is that if I had the same attitude I have now when I fought my addict self back then, I would have won. I'm not saying it wouldn't have been a bloody and exhausting battle, but I would have won.

Jimmy,

I have no idea why I am even on this page right now, logged in on my work PC. I usually just WUPP from my phone in my group and I'm done for the day. My life is in turmoil right now, mostly relationship with my wife and 17 yr old son. I guess I'm floating around KTC because buying a can and saying Fuck IT keeps popping in my head at 638 days. Reading your story just reminds me to suck it up, stay quit and be a man.

you probably saved me from another cave brother.

God Bless

SteveJCootie

@Aquaman43
@MuleMan
@AwakenedOne

@SteveJCootie you have my number brother. You can use it anytime. I'm old fashioned and I still pray. I will add you to my list.

@SteveJCootie Sorry to hear about it bud, I'm going through a rough patch with my family right now too. It sucks big time. But you know the old saying around here "one problem (or two, or three) + nicotine = two problems (or three, or four)." I have to tell myself that using that garbage only compounds what I'm dealing with now, despite the allure. Like Aquaman, I'll be praying over you and your family as well. Nothing's too big for God to handle man, don't forget it. PTBQWY bro.

got my prayers out for you all as well! Had a rough go myself in 2020 and just recently divorced if any of you need a ear. Also as a reminder.....

Zam wrote:
Here's what I don't like about bsarno's post: he's not describing tough situations. He's describing life. That's what many of your will not "get". And that's why a fair number of you WILL cave and come back (some 3 or 4 times) with a story of woe....which will be told in response to "what happened?". Don't give us the fucking "woe was me" story. That aint' why you caved. I actually think some cavers come back and assume that quitters (real quitters, not pausers) live some sort of charmed life.

Here's some news for you...

---over half of you WILL go through SERIOUS spousal issues and get divorced. Unless you live in that town were all the kids are above average.
---your parents WILL die. Some of them will go through a lot of pain before they pass. You will feel a lot of that pain.
---You WILL get sick and have some serious health scares.
---32,000+ people WILL die in auto wrecks. You WILL know one of them.
---You WILL get laid off, fired, demoted, or pressured to do shit you'd rather not do.
---800,000 people will end up filing bankruptcy this year. You WILL be one or know one or have one asked to crash on your couch.
---You WILL lose a spouse/partner. Half of you will be alive when it happens.
---A growing number of you WILL outlive your children (primarily to to obesity)
---That asshole with the checkbook WILL be in front of you at the grocery store, and they WILL refuse to write one fucking letter on that check until the last bottle of Ensure is rung up and they've determined that the 2-for-1 coupon does, in fact, cover the large can of SpaghettiOs.
---You WILL go through the same kind of shit everyone throughout history has ever had to go through..not using nicotine does NOT change the laws of "life".


All these things WILL happen, so do yourself a favor and realize it right now. Bitch about it...sure. But KNOW that quitting every day means that eventually you'll have to quit on the day Lassie kicks the bucket, the day you your grand baby is diagnosed, the day you lose the big account, whatever. Know it now....today...accept that you will have some dark-ass days ahead. Pray that they pass quickly. Hope that you live a charmed life. But PLAN on having to deal with the shit every one of us has dealt with, or will deal with. Life expectancy is 79 years...how realistic is it to think you'll not have some seriously damn stressful days ahead?


This is all Quitting 101, and I'm not surprised when the same shit comes up in every new group. But I am always surprised with the number of people that seem to assume that everyone else DOES NOT have issues like they do, and thus need an explanation of what "life" is like. Quitting nicotine does not give you a pass from shitty life choices or shitty luck.
I'm not picking on Sarno...well yes...I am picking on him. No one here owes him a first shot much less a fourth. It is a privilege to be here, and he's thus far taken advantage of that privilege. I don't give a shit about his fourth opportunity to fuck us over. I'm not writing this for him. I'm writing this for you, the desperate one who has just realized that this nicotine thing has got them by the nads, and that they want help, and that they are desperate enough to actually put in some effort to make this thing stick. I writing this for the foggy bastard who just may read bsarno's load of boo-hoo and conclude that we aren't serious about really quitting, that it can not really be done. To you I say this...it can be done. It IS being done. YOU can do it. REGARDLESS of what comes at you. And when you "get" that...nicotine will be but a joke to you.

So others have pretty much covered the thoughtful, considerate and reasoned responses. Thanks guys

So I’ll state the tough love part for brother @SteveJCootie - get that pussy thought of caving away from me!  I will be beyond fuckin pissed if I should see a Coot cave number two. Always endless reasons life will give us to cave and we can be down with a life score of 1-99 but there is no way KTC will let that lone point slip from the scoreboard. We truly earned that win with our daily quit, together.

Yo Coot - I’m with you EDD. Tell the addict there’s no escaping the brotherhood this time!!

[nick-Otine Free]

I'm going to address my cave today. That way I can move forward. I promised some people the whole story, but I don't think I was ready to face it myself until now.

About 200 or so days into my quit, my son was killed in a car accident. It wasn't a "boom" he's gone kind of thing, he spent one week in the ICU fighting for his life. After a week on life support, the doctors told us he had no brain function and was not going to recover. I can't imagine ever having a tougher moment in my life. A few days later, while I was in the funeral home, Loot called me and told me Cliff was dead. Anything I had left in me was just sucked out. But we had a strong crew, and with their help I stayed quit.

A few months later, all hell broke loose at the old site and we started this one. I clung to this site like it was the only thing keeping me alive. About a year and a half later during my yearly check-up, my doctor told me my kidneys were failing. The kidney specialists blamed the Ibuprofen I took (I played a lot of softball and it hurt), and the anti-depressants. I had rage, a lot of rage. Not just from my quit. My son's death, my wife's battle with depression, the pressure of opening a new office in Texas, I was one big ball of rage. My primary care doc told me I might want to consider going back to dipping. I was fucking stunned. This guy had been my doc for about 11 years and I couldn't believe he just told me that. One of the engineers I work with had a brother that was a heart surgeon. I say had because he has since passed due to colon cancer. But he offered to talk to me about what I was going through. In a 30 minute conversation, he told me the same thing. But, he said I could also talk to a psychologist. He said they had the ability to prescribe other drugs and drug cocktails that could help without messing up my kidneys. I wasn't going to a shrink.

About six months or so later, I caved. We can all debate about whether or not going back to the can was the best thing for me or not. But the reality is that a doctor that I trusted planted a seed that the addict in me watered and nurtured. And another doc concurred and I let that bitch become a giant bean stalk. I don't know if anything or anyone could have talked me off that ledge. The addict in me won that round and that's all it needs, just one win.

I look back on that now and wonder if there is anything I could have done to change that outcome. The answer is no, not with the attitude I had. I mentioned in my HOF speech that I always had that Outkast song in my head, Ms. Jackson. At 1000 days, I should have dismissed that song. I should have been able to dismiss that song much earlier, and I blame me, my attitude. I've seen hundreds of quitters talk about closing the door, or cutting the line, however you want to describe it. I didn't do that, I left the light on, left the door cracked, kept the line out.

I have a completely different attitude this time. I can tell you now, at Day 184, that my quit is stronger than Day 1000 in 2008. I'm not on any anti-depressants, except for Aswagandha. I have no rage, other than the typical stuff when you run into a no driving asshole. 
What I can tell you now is that if I had the same attitude I have now when I fought my addict self back then, I would have won. I'm not saying it wouldn't have been a bloody and exhausting battle, but I would have won.

Jimmy,

I have no idea why I am even on this page right now, logged in on my work PC. I usually just WUPP from my phone in my group and I'm done for the day. My life is in turmoil right now, mostly relationship with my wife and 17 yr old son. I guess I'm floating around KTC because buying a can and saying Fuck IT keeps popping in my head at 638 days. Reading your story just reminds me to suck it up, stay quit and be a man.

you probably saved me from another cave brother.

God Bless

SteveJCootie

@Aquaman43
@MuleMan
@AwakenedOne

@SteveJCootie you have my number brother. You can use it anytime. I'm old fashioned and I still pray. I will add you to my list.

@SteveJCootie Sorry to hear about it bud, I'm going through a rough patch with my family right now too. It sucks big time. But you know the old saying around here "one problem (or two, or three) + nicotine = two problems (or three, or four)." I have to tell myself that using that garbage only compounds what I'm dealing with now, despite the allure. Like Aquaman, I'll be praying over you and your family as well. Nothing's too big for God to handle man, don't forget it. PTBQWY bro.

got my prayers out for you all as well! Had a rough go myself in 2020 and just recently divorced if any of you need a ear. Also as a reminder.....

Zam wrote:
Here's what I don't like about bsarno's post: he's not describing tough situations. He's describing life. That's what many of your will not "get". And that's why a fair number of you WILL cave and come back (some 3 or 4 times) with a story of woe....which will be told in response to "what happened?". Don't give us the fucking "woe was me" story. That aint' why you caved. I actually think some cavers come back and assume that quitters (real quitters, not pausers) live some sort of charmed life.

Here's some news for you...

---over half of you WILL go through SERIOUS spousal issues and get divorced. Unless you live in that town were all the kids are above average.
---your parents WILL die. Some of them will go through a lot of pain before they pass. You will feel a lot of that pain.
---You WILL get sick and have some serious health scares.
---32,000+ people WILL die in auto wrecks. You WILL know one of them.
---You WILL get laid off, fired, demoted, or pressured to do shit you'd rather not do.
---800,000 people will end up filing bankruptcy this year. You WILL be one or know one or have one asked to crash on your couch.
---You WILL lose a spouse/partner. Half of you will be alive when it happens.
---A growing number of you WILL outlive your children (primarily to to obesity)
---That asshole with the checkbook WILL be in front of you at the grocery store, and they WILL refuse to write one fucking letter on that check until the last bottle of Ensure is rung up and they've determined that the 2-for-1 coupon does, in fact, cover the large can of SpaghettiOs.
---You WILL go through the same kind of shit everyone throughout history has ever had to go through..not using nicotine does NOT change the laws of "life".


All these things WILL happen, so do yourself a favor and realize it right now. Bitch about it...sure. But KNOW that quitting every day means that eventually you'll have to quit on the day Lassie kicks the bucket, the day you your grand baby is diagnosed, the day you lose the big account, whatever. Know it now....today...accept that you will have some dark-ass days ahead. Pray that they pass quickly. Hope that you live a charmed life. But PLAN on having to deal with the shit every one of us has dealt with, or will deal with. Life expectancy is 79 years...how realistic is it to think you'll not have some seriously damn stressful days ahead?


This is all Quitting 101, and I'm not surprised when the same shit comes up in every new group. But I am always surprised with the number of people that seem to assume that everyone else DOES NOT have issues like they do, and thus need an explanation of what "life" is like. Quitting nicotine does not give you a pass from shitty life choices or shitty luck.
I'm not picking on Sarno...well yes...I am picking on him. No one here owes him a first shot much less a fourth. It is a privilege to be here, and he's thus far taken advantage of that privilege. I don't give a shit about his fourth opportunity to fuck us over. I'm not writing this for him. I'm writing this for you, the desperate one who has just realized that this nicotine thing has got them by the nads, and that they want help, and that they are desperate enough to actually put in some effort to make this thing stick. I writing this for the foggy bastard who just may read bsarno's load of boo-hoo and conclude that we aren't serious about really quitting, that it can not really be done. To you I say this...it can be done. It IS being done. YOU can do it. REGARDLESS of what comes at you. And when you "get" that...nicotine will be but a joke to you.

[AwakenedOne]

I'm going to address my cave today. That way I can move forward. I promised some people the whole story, but I don't think I was ready to face it myself until now.

About 200 or so days into my quit, my son was killed in a car accident. It wasn't a "boom" he's gone kind of thing, he spent one week in the ICU fighting for his life. After a week on life support, the doctors told us he had no brain function and was not going to recover. I can't imagine ever having a tougher moment in my life. A few days later, while I was in the funeral home, Loot called me and told me Cliff was dead. Anything I had left in me was just sucked out. But we had a strong crew, and with their help I stayed quit.

A few months later, all hell broke loose at the old site and we started this one. I clung to this site like it was the only thing keeping me alive. About a year and a half later during my yearly check-up, my doctor told me my kidneys were failing. The kidney specialists blamed the Ibuprofen I took (I played a lot of softball and it hurt), and the anti-depressants. I had rage, a lot of rage. Not just from my quit. My son's death, my wife's battle with depression, the pressure of opening a new office in Texas, I was one big ball of rage. My primary care doc told me I might want to consider going back to dipping. I was fucking stunned. This guy had been my doc for about 11 years and I couldn't believe he just told me that. One of the engineers I work with had a brother that was a heart surgeon. I say had because he has since passed due to colon cancer. But he offered to talk to me about what I was going through. In a 30 minute conversation, he told me the same thing. But, he said I could also talk to a psychologist. He said they had the ability to prescribe other drugs and drug cocktails that could help without messing up my kidneys. I wasn't going to a shrink.

About six months or so later, I caved. We can all debate about whether or not going back to the can was the best thing for me or not. But the reality is that a doctor that I trusted planted a seed that the addict in me watered and nurtured. And another doc concurred and I let that bitch become a giant bean stalk. I don't know if anything or anyone could have talked me off that ledge. The addict in me won that round and that's all it needs, just one win.

I look back on that now and wonder if there is anything I could have done to change that outcome. The answer is no, not with the attitude I had. I mentioned in my HOF speech that I always had that Outkast song in my head, Ms. Jackson. At 1000 days, I should have dismissed that song. I should have been able to dismiss that song much earlier, and I blame me, my attitude. I've seen hundreds of quitters talk about closing the door, or cutting the line, however you want to describe it. I didn't do that, I left the light on, left the door cracked, kept the line out.

I have a completely different attitude this time. I can tell you now, at Day 184, that my quit is stronger than Day 1000 in 2008. I'm not on any anti-depressants, except for Aswagandha. I have no rage, other than the typical stuff when you run into a no driving asshole. 
What I can tell you now is that if I had the same attitude I have now when I fought my addict self back then, I would have won. I'm not saying it wouldn't have been a bloody and exhausting battle, but I would have won.

Jimmy,

I have no idea why I am even on this page right now, logged in on my work PC. I usually just WUPP from my phone in my group and I'm done for the day. My life is in turmoil right now, mostly relationship with my wife and 17 yr old son. I guess I'm floating around KTC because buying a can and saying Fuck IT keeps popping in my head at 638 days. Reading your story just reminds me to suck it up, stay quit and be a man.

you probably saved me from another cave brother.

God Bless

SteveJCootie

@Aquaman43
@MuleMan
@AwakenedOne

@SteveJCootie you have my number brother. You can use it anytime. I'm old fashioned and I still pray. I will add you to my list.

@SteveJCootie Sorry to hear about it bud, I'm going through a rough patch with my family right now too. It sucks big time. But you know the old saying around here "one problem (or two, or three) + nicotine = two problems (or three, or four)." I have to tell myself that using that garbage only compounds what I'm dealing with now, despite the allure. Like Aquaman, I'll be praying over you and your family as well. Nothing's too big for God to handle man, don't forget it. PTBQWY bro.

[Aquaman43]

I'm going to address my cave today. That way I can move forward. I promised some people the whole story, but I don't think I was ready to face it myself until now.

About 200 or so days into my quit, my son was killed in a car accident. It wasn't a "boom" he's gone kind of thing, he spent one week in the ICU fighting for his life. After a week on life support, the doctors told us he had no brain function and was not going to recover. I can't imagine ever having a tougher moment in my life. A few days later, while I was in the funeral home, Loot called me and told me Cliff was dead. Anything I had left in me was just sucked out. But we had a strong crew, and with their help I stayed quit.

A few months later, all hell broke loose at the old site and we started this one. I clung to this site like it was the only thing keeping me alive. About a year and a half later during my yearly check-up, my doctor told me my kidneys were failing. The kidney specialists blamed the Ibuprofen I took (I played a lot of softball and it hurt), and the anti-depressants. I had rage, a lot of rage. Not just from my quit. My son's death, my wife's battle with depression, the pressure of opening a new office in Texas, I was one big ball of rage. My primary care doc told me I might want to consider going back to dipping. I was fucking stunned. This guy had been my doc for about 11 years and I couldn't believe he just told me that. One of the engineers I work with had a brother that was a heart surgeon. I say had because he has since passed due to colon cancer. But he offered to talk to me about what I was going through. In a 30 minute conversation, he told me the same thing. But, he said I could also talk to a psychologist. He said they had the ability to prescribe other drugs and drug cocktails that could help without messing up my kidneys. I wasn't going to a shrink.

About six months or so later, I caved. We can all debate about whether or not going back to the can was the best thing for me or not. But the reality is that a doctor that I trusted planted a seed that the addict in me watered and nurtured. And another doc concurred and I let that bitch become a giant bean stalk. I don't know if anything or anyone could have talked me off that ledge. The addict in me won that round and that's all it needs, just one win.

I look back on that now and wonder if there is anything I could have done to change that outcome. The answer is no, not with the attitude I had. I mentioned in my HOF speech that I always had that Outkast song in my head, Ms. Jackson. At 1000 days, I should have dismissed that song. I should have been able to dismiss that song much earlier, and I blame me, my attitude. I've seen hundreds of quitters talk about closing the door, or cutting the line, however you want to describe it. I didn't do that, I left the light on, left the door cracked, kept the line out.

I have a completely different attitude this time. I can tell you now, at Day 184, that my quit is stronger than Day 1000 in 2008. I'm not on any anti-depressants, except for Aswagandha. I have no rage, other than the typical stuff when you run into a no driving asshole. 
What I can tell you now is that if I had the same attitude I have now when I fought my addict self back then, I would have won. I'm not saying it wouldn't have been a bloody and exhausting battle, but I would have won.

Jimmy,

I have no idea why I am even on this page right now, logged in on my work PC. I usually just WUPP from my phone in my group and I'm done for the day. My life is in turmoil right now, mostly relationship with my wife and 17 yr old son. I guess I'm floating around KTC because buying a can and saying Fuck IT keeps popping in my head at 638 days. Reading your story just reminds me to suck it up, stay quit and be a man.

you probably saved me from another cave brother.

God Bless

SteveJCootie

@Aquaman43
@MuleMan
@AwakenedOne

@SteveJCootie you have my number brother. You can use it anytime. I'm old fashioned and I still pray. I will add you to my list.

[SteveJCootie]

I'm going to address my cave today. That way I can move forward. I promised some people the whole story, but I don't think I was ready to face it myself until now.

About 200 or so days into my quit, my son was killed in a car accident. It wasn't a "boom" he's gone kind of thing, he spent one week in the ICU fighting for his life. After a week on life support, the doctors told us he had no brain function and was not going to recover. I can't imagine ever having a tougher moment in my life. A few days later, while I was in the funeral home, Loot called me and told me Cliff was dead. Anything I had left in me was just sucked out. But we had a strong crew, and with their help I stayed quit.

A few months later, all hell broke loose at the old site and we started this one. I clung to this site like it was the only thing keeping me alive. About a year and a half later during my yearly check-up, my doctor told me my kidneys were failing. The kidney specialists blamed the Ibuprofen I took (I played a lot of softball and it hurt), and the anti-depressants. I had rage, a lot of rage. Not just from my quit. My son's death, my wife's battle with depression, the pressure of opening a new office in Texas, I was one big ball of rage. My primary care doc told me I might want to consider going back to dipping. I was fucking stunned. This guy had been my doc for about 11 years and I couldn't believe he just told me that. One of the engineers I work with had a brother that was a heart surgeon. I say had because he has since passed due to colon cancer. But he offered to talk to me about what I was going through. In a 30 minute conversation, he told me the same thing. But, he said I could also talk to a psychologist. He said they had the ability to prescribe other drugs and drug cocktails that could help without messing up my kidneys. I wasn't going to a shrink.

About six months or so later, I caved. We can all debate about whether or not going back to the can was the best thing for me or not. But the reality is that a doctor that I trusted planted a seed that the addict in me watered and nurtured. And another doc concurred and I let that bitch become a giant bean stalk. I don't know if anything or anyone could have talked me off that ledge. The addict in me won that round and that's all it needs, just one win.

I look back on that now and wonder if there is anything I could have done to change that outcome. The answer is no, not with the attitude I had. I mentioned in my HOF speech that I always had that Outkast song in my head, Ms. Jackson. At 1000 days, I should have dismissed that song. I should have been able to dismiss that song much earlier, and I blame me, my attitude. I've seen hundreds of quitters talk about closing the door, or cutting the line, however you want to describe it. I didn't do that, I left the light on, left the door cracked, kept the line out.

I have a completely different attitude this time. I can tell you now, at Day 184, that my quit is stronger than Day 1000 in 2008. I'm not on any anti-depressants, except for Aswagandha. I have no rage, other than the typical stuff when you run into a no driving asshole. 
What I can tell you now is that if I had the same attitude I have now when I fought my addict self back then, I would have won. I'm not saying it wouldn't have been a bloody and exhausting battle, but I would have won.

Jimmy,

I have no idea why I am even on this page right now, logged in on my work PC. I usually just WUPP from my phone in my group and I'm done for the day. My life is in turmoil right now, mostly relationship with my wife and 17 yr old son. I guess I'm floating around KTC because buying a can and saying Fuck IT keeps popping in my head at 638 days. Reading your story just reminds me to suck it up, stay quit and be a man.

you probably saved me from another cave brother.

God Bless

SteveJCootie

@Aquaman43
@MuleMan
@AwakenedOne

[wastepanel]

I'm going to address my cave today. That way I can move forward. I promised some people the whole story, but I don't think I was ready to face it myself until now.

About 200 or so days into my quit, my son was killed in a car accident. It wasn't a "boom" he's gone kind of thing, he spent one week in the ICU fighting for his life. After a week on life support, the doctors told us he had no brain function and was not going to recover. I can't imagine ever having a tougher moment in my life. A few days later, while I was in the funeral home, Loot called me and told me Cliff was dead. Anything I had left in me was just sucked out. But we had a strong crew, and with their help I stayed quit.

A few months later, all hell broke loose at the old site and we started this one. I clung to this site like it was the only thing keeping me alive. About a year and a half later during my yearly check-up, my doctor told me my kidneys were failing. The kidney specialists blamed the Ibuprofen I took (I played a lot of softball and it hurt), and the anti-depressants. I had rage, a lot of rage. Not just from my quit. My son's death, my wife's battle with depression, the pressure of opening a new office in Texas, I was one big ball of rage. My primary care doc told me I might want to consider going back to dipping. I was fucking stunned. This guy had been my doc for about 11 years and I couldn't believe he just told me that. One of the engineers I work with had a brother that was a heart surgeon. I say had because he has since passed due to colon cancer. But he offered to talk to me about what I was going through. In a 30 minute conversation, he told me the same thing. But, he said I could also talk to a psychologist. He said they had the ability to prescribe other drugs and drug cocktails that could help without messing up my kidneys. I wasn't going to a shrink.

About six months or so later, I caved. We can all debate about whether or not going back to the can was the best thing for me or not. But the reality is that a doctor that I trusted planted a seed that the addict in me watered and nurtured. And another doc concurred and I let that bitch become a giant bean stalk. I don't know if anything or anyone could have talked me off that ledge. The addict in me won that round and that's all it needs, just one win.

I look back on that now and wonder if there is anything I could have done to change that outcome. The answer is no, not with the attitude I had. I mentioned in my HOF speech that I always had that Outkast song in my head, Ms. Jackson. At 1000 days, I should have dismissed that song. I should have been able to dismiss that song much earlier, and I blame me, my attitude. I've seen hundreds of quitters talk about closing the door, or cutting the line, however you want to describe it. I didn't do that, I left the light on, left the door cracked, kept the line out.

I have a completely different attitude this time. I can tell you now, at Day 184, that my quit is stronger than Day 1000 in 2008. I'm not on any anti-depressants, except for Aswagandha. I have no rage, other than the typical stuff when you run into a no driving asshole. 
What I can tell you now is that if I had the same attitude I have now when I fought my addict self back then, I would have won. I'm not saying it wouldn't have been a bloody and exhausting battle, but I would have won.

Thanks for sharing all of this. As someone who feels somewhat in danger of that pitfall of leaving the door cracked this resonates with me. This makes me feel like my approach is everyday to not pretend like that cracked door isn’t there, but instead look at it every day, give it the finger and post roll. Then think about the amount of anxiety that exists on the other side of the door.

How long did you fall off the wagon for with that cave? It sounds like you were 1000+ days quit, then how long was the relapse?

Emoney

Almost 12 years. I had quit attempts here and there, some lasting months. I thought about coming back here several times but there were some things stopping me. Shame definitely played a part, but it was the thought of coming back and fucking up someone else's quit that was mainly keeping me away. One day I was talking to my wife about it and she said something to the effect of, "are you so fucking important that someone is going to chew because you go back?" She's right, I'm not. I'm just another addict.

I understand giving the finger to the crack in door, but do something about it as well. Wake up everyday and find something to be happy about that relates to being quit. Kissing your wife/girlfriend, holding your kid, talking to the hot waitress without hiding the lip bulge. Anything. Then hold onto it all day and turn it into a big ass cinder block of quit. Then use it to start building a wall where that crack is. As someone that has been there, if you leave a crack, the siren song of the nic bitch will grind you down every day.

This is great advice thank you. My body and heart seem less stressed and workouts are easier so that’s what I hold on to through out the day. Some days I feel like there isn’t any drug that can make you feel as physically good as I do. My issue is the anxiety that everyone else here gets.

And I’ll try to talk to the hot waitress today.

Emoney

It's great to be quit with you man.  The story is heartbreaking.  My condolences...

I've been there.  It wasn't as dramatic of a story as yours but rang through:

planted a seed that the addict in me watered and nurtured.

That is why failure happens.  What leads up to a cave is noise.  Why we caved is all the same.

I posted 3749 days quit today.  I walked back to this site in 2006 thinking I couldn't be quit without help or that I was broken and needed nicotine to regulate the chemicals in my head.  It took some time but I put up a very similar post about the same time in my quit as this today.  We often ask quitters to own their mistakes right away but, I'll be honest with you, I never really could own them until I understood them a few months out.  I thought I did...but the anger and the battle of quitting left me too weary to appreciate them.

Don't let your mistakes define you.  Make your own story from this moment on.

So proud of you man.

[emoney]

I'm going to address my cave today. That way I can move forward. I promised some people the whole story, but I don't think I was ready to face it myself until now.

About 200 or so days into my quit, my son was killed in a car accident. It wasn't a "boom" he's gone kind of thing, he spent one week in the ICU fighting for his life. After a week on life support, the doctors told us he had no brain function and was not going to recover. I can't imagine ever having a tougher moment in my life. A few days later, while I was in the funeral home, Loot called me and told me Cliff was dead. Anything I had left in me was just sucked out. But we had a strong crew, and with their help I stayed quit.

A few months later, all hell broke loose at the old site and we started this one. I clung to this site like it was the only thing keeping me alive. About a year and a half later during my yearly check-up, my doctor told me my kidneys were failing. The kidney specialists blamed the Ibuprofen I took (I played a lot of softball and it hurt), and the anti-depressants. I had rage, a lot of rage. Not just from my quit. My son's death, my wife's battle with depression, the pressure of opening a new office in Texas, I was one big ball of rage. My primary care doc told me I might want to consider going back to dipping. I was fucking stunned. This guy had been my doc for about 11 years and I couldn't believe he just told me that. One of the engineers I work with had a brother that was a heart surgeon. I say had because he has since passed due to colon cancer. But he offered to talk to me about what I was going through. In a 30 minute conversation, he told me the same thing. But, he said I could also talk to a psychologist. He said they had the ability to prescribe other drugs and drug cocktails that could help without messing up my kidneys. I wasn't going to a shrink.

About six months or so later, I caved. We can all debate about whether or not going back to the can was the best thing for me or not. But the reality is that a doctor that I trusted planted a seed that the addict in me watered and nurtured. And another doc concurred and I let that bitch become a giant bean stalk. I don't know if anything or anyone could have talked me off that ledge. The addict in me won that round and that's all it needs, just one win.

I look back on that now and wonder if there is anything I could have done to change that outcome. The answer is no, not with the attitude I had. I mentioned in my HOF speech that I always had that Outkast song in my head, Ms. Jackson. At 1000 days, I should have dismissed that song. I should have been able to dismiss that song much earlier, and I blame me, my attitude. I've seen hundreds of quitters talk about closing the door, or cutting the line, however you want to describe it. I didn't do that, I left the light on, left the door cracked, kept the line out.

I have a completely different attitude this time. I can tell you now, at Day 184, that my quit is stronger than Day 1000 in 2008. I'm not on any anti-depressants, except for Aswagandha. I have no rage, other than the typical stuff when you run into a no driving asshole. 
What I can tell you now is that if I had the same attitude I have now when I fought my addict self back then, I would have won. I'm not saying it wouldn't have been a bloody and exhausting battle, but I would have won.

Thanks for sharing all of this. As someone who feels somewhat in danger of that pitfall of leaving the door cracked this resonates with me. This makes me feel like my approach is everyday to not pretend like that cracked door isn’t there, but instead look at it every day, give it the finger and post roll. Then think about the amount of anxiety that exists on the other side of the door.

How long did you fall off the wagon for with that cave? It sounds like you were 1000+ days quit, then how long was the relapse?

Emoney

Almost 12 years. I had quit attempts here and there, some lasting months. I thought about coming back here several times but there were some things stopping me. Shame definitely played a part, but it was the thought of coming back and fucking up someone else's quit that was mainly keeping me away. One day I was talking to my wife about it and she said something to the effect of, "are you so fucking important that someone is going to chew because you go back?" She's right, I'm not. I'm just another addict.

I understand giving the finger to the crack in door, but do something about it as well. Wake up everyday and find something to be happy about that relates to being quit. Kissing your wife/girlfriend, holding your kid, talking to the hot waitress without hiding the lip bulge. Anything. Then hold onto it all day and turn it into a big ass cinder block of quit. Then use it to start building a wall where that crack is. As someone that has been there, if you leave a crack, the siren song of the nic bitch will grind you down every day.

This is great advice thank you. My body and heart seem less stressed and workouts are easier so that’s what I hold on to through out the day. Some days I feel like there isn’t any drug that can make you feel as physically good as I do. My issue is the anxiety that everyone else here gets.

And I’ll try to talk to the hot waitress today.

Emoney

[Aquaman43]

I'm going to address my cave today. That way I can move forward. I promised some people the whole story, but I don't think I was ready to face it myself until now.

About 200 or so days into my quit, my son was killed in a car accident. It wasn't a "boom" he's gone kind of thing, he spent one week in the ICU fighting for his life. After a week on life support, the doctors told us he had no brain function and was not going to recover. I can't imagine ever having a tougher moment in my life. A few days later, while I was in the funeral home, Loot called me and told me Cliff was dead. Anything I had left in me was just sucked out. But we had a strong crew, and with their help I stayed quit.

A few months later, all hell broke loose at the old site and we started this one. I clung to this site like it was the only thing keeping me alive. About a year and a half later during my yearly check-up, my doctor told me my kidneys were failing. The kidney specialists blamed the Ibuprofen I took (I played a lot of softball and it hurt), and the anti-depressants. I had rage, a lot of rage. Not just from my quit. My son's death, my wife's battle with depression, the pressure of opening a new office in Texas, I was one big ball of rage. My primary care doc told me I might want to consider going back to dipping. I was fucking stunned. This guy had been my doc for about 11 years and I couldn't believe he just told me that. One of the engineers I work with had a brother that was a heart surgeon. I say had because he has since passed due to colon cancer. But he offered to talk to me about what I was going through. In a 30 minute conversation, he told me the same thing. But, he said I could also talk to a psychologist. He said they had the ability to prescribe other drugs and drug cocktails that could help without messing up my kidneys. I wasn't going to a shrink.

About six months or so later, I caved. We can all debate about whether or not going back to the can was the best thing for me or not. But the reality is that a doctor that I trusted planted a seed that the addict in me watered and nurtured. And another doc concurred and I let that bitch become a giant bean stalk. I don't know if anything or anyone could have talked me off that ledge. The addict in me won that round and that's all it needs, just one win.

I look back on that now and wonder if there is anything I could have done to change that outcome. The answer is no, not with the attitude I had. I mentioned in my HOF speech that I always had that Outkast song in my head, Ms. Jackson. At 1000 days, I should have dismissed that song. I should have been able to dismiss that song much earlier, and I blame me, my attitude. I've seen hundreds of quitters talk about closing the door, or cutting the line, however you want to describe it. I didn't do that, I left the light on, left the door cracked, kept the line out.

I have a completely different attitude this time. I can tell you now, at Day 184, that my quit is stronger than Day 1000 in 2008. I'm not on any anti-depressants, except for Aswagandha. I have no rage, other than the typical stuff when you run into a no driving asshole. 
What I can tell you now is that if I had the same attitude I have now when I fought my addict self back then, I would have won. I'm not saying it wouldn't have been a bloody and exhausting battle, but I would have won.

Thanks for sharing all of this. As someone who feels somewhat in danger of that pitfall of leaving the door cracked this resonates with me. This makes me feel like my approach is everyday to not pretend like that cracked door isn’t there, but instead look at it every day, give it the finger and post roll. Then think about the amount of anxiety that exists on the other side of the door.

How long did you fall off the wagon for with that cave? It sounds like you were 1000+ days quit, then how long was the relapse?

Emoney

Almost 12 years. I had quit attempts here and there, some lasting months. I thought about coming back here several times but there were some things stopping me. Shame definitely played a part, but it was the thought of coming back and fucking up someone else's quit that was mainly keeping me away. One day I was talking to my wife about it and she said something to the effect of, "are you so fucking important that someone is going to chew because you go back?" She's right, I'm not. I'm just another addict.

I understand giving the finger to the crack in door, but do something about it as well. Wake up everyday and find something to be happy about that relates to being quit. Kissing your wife/girlfriend, holding your kid, talking to the hot waitress without hiding the lip bulge. Anything. Then hold onto it all day and turn it into a big ass cinder block of quit. Then use it to start building a wall where that crack is. As someone that has been there, if you leave a crack, the siren song of the nic bitch will grind you down every day.

[emoney]

I'm going to address my cave today. That way I can move forward. I promised some people the whole story, but I don't think I was ready to face it myself until now.

About 200 or so days into my quit, my son was killed in a car accident. It wasn't a "boom" he's gone kind of thing, he spent one week in the ICU fighting for his life. After a week on life support, the doctors told us he had no brain function and was not going to recover. I can't imagine ever having a tougher moment in my life. A few days later, while I was in the funeral home, Loot called me and told me Cliff was dead. Anything I had left in me was just sucked out. But we had a strong crew, and with their help I stayed quit.

A few months later, all hell broke loose at the old site and we started this one. I clung to this site like it was the only thing keeping me alive. About a year and a half later during my yearly check-up, my doctor told me my kidneys were failing. The kidney specialists blamed the Ibuprofen I took (I played a lot of softball and it hurt), and the anti-depressants. I had rage, a lot of rage. Not just from my quit. My son's death, my wife's battle with depression, the pressure of opening a new office in Texas, I was one big ball of rage. My primary care doc told me I might want to consider going back to dipping. I was fucking stunned. This guy had been my doc for about 11 years and I couldn't believe he just told me that. One of the engineers I work with had a brother that was a heart surgeon. I say had because he has since passed due to colon cancer. But he offered to talk to me about what I was going through. In a 30 minute conversation, he told me the same thing. But, he said I could also talk to a psychologist. He said they had the ability to prescribe other drugs and drug cocktails that could help without messing up my kidneys. I wasn't going to a shrink.

About six months or so later, I caved. We can all debate about whether or not going back to the can was the best thing for me or not. But the reality is that a doctor that I trusted planted a seed that the addict in me watered and nurtured. And another doc concurred and I let that bitch become a giant bean stalk. I don't know if anything or anyone could have talked me off that ledge. The addict in me won that round and that's all it needs, just one win.

I look back on that now and wonder if there is anything I could have done to change that outcome. The answer is no, not with the attitude I had. I mentioned in my HOF speech that I always had that Outkast song in my head, Ms. Jackson. At 1000 days, I should have dismissed that song. I should have been able to dismiss that song much earlier, and I blame me, my attitude. I've seen hundreds of quitters talk about closing the door, or cutting the line, however you want to describe it. I didn't do that, I left the light on, left the door cracked, kept the line out.

I have a completely different attitude this time. I can tell you now, at Day 184, that my quit is stronger than Day 1000 in 2008. I'm not on any anti-depressants, except for Aswagandha. I have no rage, other than the typical stuff when you run into a no driving asshole. 
What I can tell you now is that if I had the same attitude I have now when I fought my addict self back then, I would have won. I'm not saying it wouldn't have been a bloody and exhausting battle, but I would have won.

Thanks for sharing all of this. As someone who feels somewhat in danger of that pitfall of leaving the door cracked this resonates with me. This makes me feel like my approach is everyday to not pretend like that cracked door isn’t there, but instead look at it every day, give it the finger and post roll. Then think about the amount of anxiety that exists on the other side of the door.

How long did you fall off the wagon for with that cave? It sounds like you were 1000+ days quit, then how long was the relapse?

Emoney

[Athan]

I'm going to address my cave today... my addict self...

Thank-you for putting that out there Aquaman. That's a lot to unpack, a lot of trauma, a lot of life. I do appreciate you sharing that piece of yourself with us. To have made it through several bloody gauntlets only to use again on the other side is instructive indeed. Our addict selves are there all along; it's not like they die. It's why I'm still here, still posting in several groups, still reading the intro's. I will never not be an addict. But I will always be quit - today.
Quitting with you today.

[Aquaman43]

I'm going to address my cave today. That way I can move forward. I promised some people the whole story, but I don't think I was ready to face it myself until now.

About 200 or so days into my quit, my son was killed in a car accident. It wasn't a "boom" he's gone kind of thing, he spent one week in the ICU fighting for his life. After a week on life support, the doctors told us he had no brain function and was not going to recover. I can't imagine ever having a tougher moment in my life. A few days later, while I was in the funeral home, Loot called me and told me Cliff was dead. Anything I had left in me was just sucked out. But we had a strong crew, and with their help I stayed quit.

A few months later, all hell broke loose at the old site and we started this one. I clung to this site like it was the only thing keeping me alive. About a year and a half later during my yearly check-up, my doctor told me my kidneys were failing. The kidney specialists blamed the Ibuprofen I took (I played a lot of softball and it hurt), and the anti-depressants. I had rage, a lot of rage. Not just from my quit. My son's death, my wife's battle with depression, the pressure of opening a new office in Texas, I was one big ball of rage. My primary care doc told me I might want to consider going back to dipping. I was fucking stunned. This guy had been my doc for about 11 years and I couldn't believe he just told me that. One of the engineers I work with had a brother that was a heart surgeon. I say had because he has since passed due to colon cancer. But he offered to talk to me about what I was going through. In a 30 minute conversation, he told me the same thing. But, he said I could also talk to a psychologist. He said they had the ability to prescribe other drugs and drug cocktails that could help without messing up my kidneys. I wasn't going to a shrink.

About six months or so later, I caved. We can all debate about whether or not going back to the can was the best thing for me or not. But the reality is that a doctor that I trusted planted a seed that the addict in me watered and nurtured. And another doc concurred and I let that bitch become a giant bean stalk. I don't know if anything or anyone could have talked me off that ledge. The addict in me won that round and that's all it needs, just one win.

I look back on that now and wonder if there is anything I could have done to change that outcome. The answer is no, not with the attitude I had. I mentioned in my HOF speech that I always had that Outkast song in my head, Ms. Jackson. At 1000 days, I should have dismissed that song. I should have been able to dismiss that song much earlier, and I blame me, my attitude. I've seen hundreds of quitters talk about closing the door, or cutting the line, however you want to describe it. I didn't do that, I left the light on, left the door cracked, kept the line out.

I have a completely different attitude this time. I can tell you now, at Day 184, that my quit is stronger than Day 1000 in 2008. I'm not on any anti-depressants, except for Aswagandha. I have no rage, other than the typical stuff when you run into a no driving asshole. 
What I can tell you now is that if I had the same attitude I have now when I fought my addict self back then, I would have won. I'm not saying it wouldn't have been a bloody and exhausting battle, but I would have won.

[Aquaman43]

Never had an intro, not even on the old sites. Just going to use this to log my journey.

183 days ago I quit and I can remember that day like it was yesterday, and not in a good way. But today is day 183 and that day 1 was worth this day 183. I've met a whole new group of quitters, and some of y'all are alright. I've run into some old friends that handed me my ass 183 days ago. And I expected nothing less.

But this quit is different than my first, and most of that is attitude. I want to put some of that down so maybe it can help someone that comes along later.