intro - mantis

[tarpon17]

I read your intro and all the responses.  I am on your side, Mantis.  Much of what you said rings true to me.  I also understand your current short temper and know it all attitude.  It's the lucky among us who have only quit once.  Most of us have been exactly where you're at.  We came, we thought we conquered, we caved and were owned...most of us more than once.  My combined quit time is close to 5 years and the only thing I know anymore is that it's a daily battle.

This place is good.  For a while almost everyone hated me but I got over myself and they got over me.  We're at a point of peaceful coexistence with a common goal.  We all want the same thing, after all.

Blah- you make a good point. Overcoming initial friction can be very tough. I remember your battle, and you and us overcame it.

I've noticed that Mantis has not responded lately, probably a good thing. Either he realized he took the wrong approach with his intro or he just said to himself "fuck them". Either way, taking a step back and keeping quite sometimes is the best thing.

I also noticed that he did not post roll yesterday. That bothers me. He was on day 5 and didn't post roll? Taking that approach will quickly get you buried.
That's the perfect example why his intro comes across as a bunch of crap.

And I think I was way worse than this, actually. Sucks that he didn't post. I hope it's a one off. If it isn't and he caved he must feel like total shit.

If he caved it was his own doing and his attitude that did him in. He rubbed me the wrong way with his initial post and I have no respect for him right now. So fuck him.

If he comes back with an attitude adjustment and posts daily and acts like he wants help then I will support him all the way to the HOF...

yeah, and he hasn't posted yet today. I feel he may be too good for us commoners here.....best of luck to him.......

[davenc]

I read your intro and all the responses.  I am on your side, Mantis.  Much of what you said rings true to me.  I also understand your current short temper and know it all attitude.  It's the lucky among us who have only quit once.  Most of us have been exactly where you're at.  We came, we thought we conquered, we caved and were owned...most of us more than once.  My combined quit time is close to 5 years and the only thing I know anymore is that it's a daily battle.

This place is good.  For a while almost everyone hated me but I got over myself and they got over me.  We're at a point of peaceful coexistence with a common goal.  We all want the same thing, after all.

Blah- you make a good point. Overcoming initial friction can be very tough. I remember your battle, and you and us overcame it.

I've noticed that Mantis has not responded lately, probably a good thing. Either he realized he took the wrong approach with his intro or he just said to himself "fuck them". Either way, taking a step back and keeping quite sometimes is the best thing.

I also noticed that he did not post roll yesterday. That bothers me. He was on day 5 and didn't post roll? Taking that approach will quickly get you buried.
That's the perfect example why his intro comes across as a bunch of crap.

And I think I was way worse than this, actually. Sucks that he didn't post. I hope it's a one off. If it isn't and he caved he must feel like total shit.

If he caved it was his own doing and his attitude that did him in. He rubbed me the wrong way with his initial post and I have no respect for him right now. So fuck him.

If he comes back with an attitude adjustment and posts daily and acts like he wants help then I will support him all the way to the HOF...

[BlahBlah]

I read your intro and all the responses.  I am on your side, Mantis.  Much of what you said rings true to me.  I also understand your current short temper and know it all attitude.  It's the lucky among us who have only quit once.  Most of us have been exactly where you're at.  We came, we thought we conquered, we caved and were owned...most of us more than once.  My combined quit time is close to 5 years and the only thing I know anymore is that it's a daily battle.

This place is good.  For a while almost everyone hated me but I got over myself and they got over me.  We're at a point of peaceful coexistence with a common goal.  We all want the same thing, after all.

Blah- you make a good point. Overcoming initial friction can be very tough. I remember your battle, and you and us overcame it.

I've noticed that Mantis has not responded lately, probably a good thing. Either he realized he took the wrong approach with his intro or he just said to himself "fuck them". Either way, taking a step back and keeping quite sometimes is the best thing.

I also noticed that he did not post roll yesterday. That bothers me. He was on day 5 and didn't post roll? Taking that approach will quickly get you buried.
That's the perfect example why his intro comes across as a bunch of crap.

And I think I was way worse than this, actually. Sucks that he didn't post. I hope it's a one off. If it isn't and he caved he must feel like total shit.

[brianl]

I read your intro and all the responses. I am on your side, Mantis. Much of what you said rings true to me. I also understand your current short temper and know it all attitude. It's the lucky among us who have only quit once. Most of us have been exactly where you're at. We came, we thought we conquered, we caved and were owned...most of us more than once. My combined quit time is close to 5 years and the only thing I know anymore is that it's a daily battle.

This place is good. For a while almost everyone hated me but I got over myself and they got over me. We're at a point of peaceful coexistence with a common goal. We all want the same thing, after all.

Blah- you make a good point. Overcoming initial friction can be very tough. I remember your battle, and you and us overcame it.

I've noticed that Mantis has not responded lately, probably a good thing. Either he realized he took the wrong approach with his intro or he just said to himself "fuck them". Either way, taking a step back and keeping quite sometimes is the best thing.

I also noticed that he did not post roll yesterday. That bothers me. He was on day 5 and didn't post roll? Taking that approach will quickly get you buried.
That's the perfect example why his intro comes across as a bunch of crap.

[BlahBlah]

I read your intro and all the responses. I am on your side, Mantis. Much of what you said rings true to me. I also understand your current short temper and know it all attitude. It's the lucky among us who have only quit once. Most of us have been exactly where you're at. We came, we thought we conquered, we caved and were owned...most of us more than once. My combined quit time is close to 5 years and the only thing I know anymore is that it's a daily battle.

This place is good. For a while almost everyone hated me but I got over myself and they got over me. We're at a point of peaceful coexistence with a common goal. We all want the same thing, after all.

[redtrain14]

It is really very simple.  If you WANT to quit you will.   

It comes down to this.  Do you WANT to quit?

It's not that simple, if it were this site wouldn't exist. Congrats on your 360.

I bed to differ. I said it was simple to quit, not easy, simple. Our addiction is a nasty one. I know without the concepts used here I would surely still be stuffing poison in my face. Drink the Kool-aid here and it really is simple.

Simple - readily understood or performed

Easy - causing or involving little difficulty or discomfort.

If you want to quit, you will. You know the drill. When you are ready to post your day one we will be here.

To add to what 1mile said.....and I will make this simple for you.

Simple: Posting roll call early, everyday. This is your promise to be nic free.

Easy: Keeping that promise for 24 hours and repeating.

Hard: Quitting with this attitude:

And this drug - once you put it into your bloodstream - is more powerful than you, every single time.

Spot on:

I am a newbie again and don't know shit.

We have something we can agree on......its a start.

[brianl]

Fuck you for a few reasons, but mainly for not reading my post, or being too fucking stupid to understand it. 365 days? Kiss my fucking ass, son, I did 8 of those and thought I knew it all as well.

Okay, I fuckedddd myself Nancy, now what? You know the difference between your 8 years and my 1? Nothing! I am on the same day as you........Today!

Your post struck me as, being a cry me river, whoa is me, I'm a victim!

If you quit drinking, then you know what it takes to do this! I only was questioning whether you had made up your mind.... It makes THE difference. So now go unfuck yourself and get to quitting!

In my original response to your post I tried to be friendly and understanding.

Now I agree with the Dr.

Shut the fuck up and go fuck yourself you cunt.

What I learned from your post is to not do anything that you have done because it doesn't work. Don't ever quit quitting??? How about being a fucking man and stick to one quit instead of telling yourself it's ok to cave because you'll just quit agian.

8 years quit don't mean jack shit because you are on day 4 and everything before that is crap.
You can't take any criticism without telling people to fuck off. That's weak.
Coming on this site and telling us you don't want to be told this and you don't want to be told that, what do you want to be told?
How about this... "Oh Mantis, thank you for gracing us with your company and all of your knowledge. Whatever you say and do is how it should be said and done with no questions asked."
Now that your hand job is over, here is the real deal. Try doing what works for all of us on this site. Commit to posting roll every day.
Your way doesn't work.

[Greg5280]

It is really very simple.  If you WANT to quit you will.   

It comes down to this.  Do you WANT to quit?

It's not that simple, if it were this site wouldn't exist. Congrats on your 360.

I bed to differ. I said it was simple to quit, not easy, simple. Our addiction is a nasty one. I know without the concepts used here I would surely still be stuffing poison in my face. Drink the Kool-aid here and it really is simple.

Simple - readily understood or performed

Easy - causing or involving little difficulty or discomfort.

If you want to quit, you will. You know the drill. When you are ready to post your day one we will be here.

[Dr. Bruce Banner]

Fuck you for a few reasons, but mainly for not reading my post, or being too fucking stupid to understand it. 365 days? Kiss my fucking ass, son, I did 8 of those and thought I knew it all as well.

Okay, I fuckedddd myself Nancy, now what? You know the difference between your 8 years and my 1? Nothing! I am on the same day as you........Today!

Your post struck me as, being a cry me river, whoa is me, I'm a victim!

If you quit drinking, then you know what it takes to do this! I only was questioning whether you had made up your mind.... It makes THE difference. So now go unfuck yourself and get to quitting!

[Bean]

Mantis - Welcome aboard. Embrace the suck. Your intro sounds like you are angry...GREAT!!! You should be. Nic was taking your life and torturing your family. Use your anger at nic as motivation to stay quit.

Nic thinks you're a pussy because you keep caving...you're pissed at yourself for caving. This is your chance to join a bunch of bad ass mother fuckers who are whipping nic's ass one day at a time. YOU CAN DO IT TOO!!! You've taken the first step...let us help you with the rest!!!

"Yesterday + 1" is your new motto. Just post roll, focus on staying quit 24 hours, then repeat.

[GlennFtheKodiak]

Mantis, my two cents. I liked your Intro. A little long but I thought it was genuine but I have NO problem anyone here calling you out for what they perceive as Bullshit.

Maybe calling you "Nancy" is a little harsh and the first reaction is to get mad, but there's a reason for that. No one here wants you to fail. If that upsets you, GOOD! But take it like a man.

The people on here who are too stubborn to understand tough love and get all offended are usually gone pretty quickly and back to the same 'ol shit.

Suck it up, apologize to these fine quitters who are here to help you and continue on your journey.

[davenc]

All the stuff I think I know and wrote above could all be a bunch of bullshit.

most of your introduction sounds like a preamble to a cave!

It sounds like you need to dig a hole and just go ahead and die.

Your 3 or 4 weekend attempts, were just that attempts...We do or do not here! There is no try!

I, for one, am going to call crap... Tarpon is a good friend to call you on your bullshit. You need to get rid of your "stinking thinkin"
You have it part right, about where you fucked up before, but is that who you still are? If so, I see failure in your life.....

If you don't hold yourself accountable, and be a man of your word, then how is that man in the mirror any different than you?

You are no different from anyone here....you were right, you are an addict, you will always be an addict.

You don't want anyone to beat you up? Save the bush league stuff.....Okay Nancy, how should I hold your hand?


I just will say... If you make your mind up and figure out to what length you will go to obtain this, you will make it! If it be kicking and screaming the whole way then so be it... quit for today.....24 hours, then worry about tomorrow when it gets here.

See I was you, 365 days ago....I am quit for just today, and the days count themselves!

Fuck you for a few reasons, but mainly for not reading my post, or being too fucking stupid to understand it. 365 days? Kiss my fucking ass, son, I did 8 of those and thought I knew it all as well.

and look where that got you, you're right, you don't know shit

you're going to bash banner on his 1 year quit day?

fuck you, from me

If that is the attitude this limp dick cock sucker is going to have then fuck him. He doesn't need any help obviously. Let him do his own fucking quit on his own.

[brianl]

Hey All

I am 41, married, two kids. Born in the Midwest. Grew up in New Jersey, mostly. I've lived in the Southwest for the last 7 years.

I had my first taste of tobacco in 7th grade, taking a pinch of Copenhagen Snuff, while walking towards a catfish hole with some new friends - tougher, cooler kids that came from a different elementary from me. I immediately puked, which cracked everyone - including me - up.

From that point on, I was in with a new crew and I joined my friends in sneaking dips in class throughout middle school. We'd rip out a bunch of sheets of notebook paper, roll it into a cone, fold the bottom and and presto, we had our spittoons for dipping through class. Somehow the teachers never once stopped us or busted us. I can remember walking to the convenience store with my buddies and buying it. It was a different time then, there was no such thing as carding kids or fines for underage tobacco. We walked right in and bought it along with baseball cards and comic books.

All my friends and I became football players in high school and Cope was part of the team. We'd dip in meetings, films, while stretching. Our coach dipped, too.

I don't remember when exactly they figured it out but at some point in high school, my parents did. It wasn't like I tried very hard to hide it. Neither of them were tobacco users (my Dad was a former smoker) but they eventually gave up on trying to make me quit. My mom even bought me a real spittoon because she was sick of finding cans and bottles with spit in them.

I went on to play Div III football in college and ole Cope came right along. My WR coach was a Cope dipper as well, in fact he was a maniac. He would flip an entire tin into his lip at a time, his lower lip bulging all the way around like an overinflated tire. He never spit, swallowing the entire time. Rumor had it he went through a sleeve a day. Rumor also had it he had several operations already to remove growths from his throat, and he was a young coach. I wonder if he's alive today.

After a blown knee ended football, I went through some big changes. One of them was I set aside dip and became a smoker. I had never smoked in high school or early college (that was for burnouts and dirtbags) but after football came to a halt and I broke up with my long time girlfriend, I got into music, bars and women full time. During that time, blowing out poison into the air that other people would have to breath was more socially acceptable than spitting in a can. Women seemed to accept smokers, a little bit dangerous. Dippers, however, were seen as disgusting rednecks.

So I became a smoker mostly out of convenience and social stigma, not because I enjoyed it more than dip. I hated the way it made my lungs feel, hated the overflowing ashtrays, hated the constant stink of smoke. But not enough to quit my nic habit. My twenties were a haze of alcohol and tobacco, my two best friends.

At 30, through divine intervention, I managed to get sober for six months and during that window I met my wife. I fell in love and then promptly fell off the wagon. It soon became clear it was her or the drink and I gave up the drink for good in 1998. It was hell but I haven't had a drink since. That's another story for another forum, so I'll leave it there.

Ole Nic in the form of cigarettes stayed by my side, of course. My wife hated it. And truth be told so did I but was madly hooked. I tried to quit again and again and failed over and over. Cold turkey fail. Patch fail. Pill fail. Repeat. Then my wife got pregnant with our first child and I swore to her I would quit before our son was born (I had no fucking idea how).

One morning getting off the train, on my way to work in Jersey City, I looked up at the Twin Towers and saw a gaping, smoking hole like a bomb had gone off. I worked right across the Hudson from the Towers, they were in plain view. As the morning wore on my building was evacuated when the first tower fell. From the street I watched people jumping from the second tower, spinning like little dolls - down, down. Then watched it collapse and felt the ground shake under my feet.

Two or three days later, I tossed the cigarettes away. Cold turkey - just put em down for good and walked away. They just didn't make any sense and I suddenly wasn't getting anything from them. On some deep level, watching all of those people die had changed me. Life was too short to waste on a stupid habit that you know will kill you. So I quit and stayed quit.

Fast forward to 2009, I was at a conference - nervous, stressed, everyone was going out for drinks. I ordered a Coke and bummed a cigarette from someone to take off the edge. It made me feel like shit of course. I had been off of nic for 8 years, I was in control, I told myself, I could handle it. That bummed smoke turned into a pack. I would stop when I got home from the conference I promised myself.

But of course I didn't. I couldn't stand my kids smelling smoke on me or catching me lighting up, so I switched to dip when I got home. And fell in love all over again with ole Cope.

Fast forward to the present. I have a big red sore in my mouth. My teeth are sore, my gums are receding and bleed easily. I have yellow, wrinkled skin on either side of my mouth. I am getting dizzy spells out of the blue. I am dipping a can and a 1/2 a day. I can't kiss my wife most hours of the day. I get jumpy and nasty if we are out and I have to go more than a couple of hours without a dip. My kids see me all the time with that shit in my mouth, something I swore I would never do to them. They ask me why, what it is, why I can't stop, when I will quit. I tell them I am trying. It makes me hate myself.

And that's not bullshit. I am trying. I've done 3 or 4 weekend quits over the last year, where I get two days going only to fall on my face on Monday. Two weeks ago, I was at a conference and I got off the nic for a week. I thought I was in business. My second day back home, back at work, I crumbled. I am starting to doubt myself, what if I can't do it.

I can hear you tough guys in my head as I write this: this is war, don't be a pussy, are you going to be a man and commit to quit? You know, that's all fine and good and if that works for you, God bless.

But for me, with all due respect, save that bush league bullshit. I am a grown man, you've never met me, so shut the fuck up. I already know what I am up against, I already know it's my own fucking fault, I know I've got no one to blame but myself and I've been down the road time and time again. Beating up on myself, or looking at it like some contest or war, doesn't work for me. Because I've been there with my guns cocked, amped up and then failed many times. Because my enemy and my struggle and my hatred is all me. And I can't heal myself by fighting myself. Me trying to kill me? Man, that's easy, I am pretty good at self destruction. And I may never heal that disease completely. What I can do is understand myself and why I am this way. And try to make decisions from the part of my brain that is not a hopeless fucking addict.

Anyway, here's some useful suggestions, from my perspective:

1. Don't ever quit quitting. You are dealing with a drug as addictive as coke and heroin. You are looking at a drug that 90% or so cannot stop using. Unless you are one of the very few and very lucky, it is going to be a long and painful process. The odds are impossible unless you make one simple promise to yourself: I won't ever give up on trying to quit. I will focus on not using it today and that is all I can worry about today. But no matter what happens today, I am not going to quit trying to quit tomorrow, or the next day, or next week.

2. Learn about yourself. You have to understand yourself, how you are wired, what makes you tick, what your triggers are. You have to stare those weaknesses and triggers in the face, write them down, know them like you know the earth is round. And then you have to put together a plan to get you through those triggers, especially in the early weeks and months. If you don't, you don't have a chance. If drinking is your trigger, lay off the booze for a while. If anger is your trigger, line up an outlet for releasing anger - take up boxing or meditation or whatever works for you. If mowing the lawn is your trigger, pay someone 10 bucks to mow your lawn for a few weeks. Whatever. Just don't do what you have always done and expect different results. You have to lay down new patterns - in your brain and in your life - trailblazing until that new path becomes familiar and normal.

3. Have respect. Here is where I fucked up after a long successful quit. It's never over, an addict can't outgrow their genes, or their psychology, 5 or 10 years down the road. You are always a nicotine addict. Always will be. And this drug - once you put it into your bloodstream - is more powerful than you, every single time. The only way you can protect yourself is to abstain.

4. Surround yourself with others that understand what you are going through. Here is also where I've fucked up. It works. Thanks to you out there who built this site and participate in it. Thanks to chewie for getting my account hooked up in a minute and tarpon for talking me into tossing my can out and calling me on my bullshit. I think I may have a chance if I stick around and work it.

5. Be humble. All the stuff I think I know and wrote above could all be a bunch of bullshit. Justification my addict's brain have spun, looking for some route to allow for just one more dip. It's like having a parasite in you that never completely dies, it just gradually looses strength and goes dormant. Waiting for the chance to come back to life. As soon as you get arrogant enough to think you know it all, it will whip back to life. I am a newbie again and don't know shit.

That's it for now. Sorry if I pissed people off, glad if I helped anyone out there. I don't really know anything but it's better to get it out there than to hold it in.

I am on day 3 and just writing this makes me jones for a dip. But I'm not gonna. I'm gonna toss in a cough drop instead. Maybe make some more coffee. Get back to work.

- mantis

Welcome Mantis,

I'm similar to you (and so many others here). 40 years old, married with 2 little boys. Been dipping/smoking since 13. I too beat another addiction when I was younger, cocaine. I'm 59 days into my Quit.
Tried to quit countless times, cold turkey, gum, pill, lozenge, always caved.

You make alot of good points in your intro. You sound like a guy with a good head on your shoulders. You have had a long stretch of nic free living, but now your in a jam with the Cope. I always found that after some stretches of being nic free that when I came back to it my use was stronger. (that nic bitch is a dirty whore!!!).

There is one thing that has made this time different for me. And it's this site, no questions about it. I look forward to each morning and posting roll, commiting to myself and all on this site that I will be nic free for the day.

Anyways- that's my 2 cents.
Glad to have you aboard.

Brian

[redtrain14]

All the stuff I think I know and wrote above could all be a bunch of bullshit.

most of your introduction sounds like a preamble to a cave!

It sounds like you need to dig a hole and just go ahead and die.

Your 3 or 4 weekend attempts, were just that attempts...We do or do not here! There is no try!

I, for one, am going to call crap... Tarpon is a good friend to call you on your bullshit. You need to get rid of your "stinking thinkin"
You have it part right, about where you fucked up before, but is that who you still are? If so, I see failure in your life.....

If you don't hold yourself accountable, and be a man of your word, then how is that man in the mirror any different than you?

You are no different from anyone here....you were right, you are an addict, you will always be an addict.

You don't want anyone to beat you up? Save the bush league stuff.....Okay Nancy, how should I hold your hand?


I just will say... If you make your mind up and figure out to what length you will go to obtain this, you will make it! If it be kicking and screaming the whole way then so be it... quit for today.....24 hours, then worry about tomorrow when it gets here.

See I was you, 365 days ago....I am quit for just today, and the days count themselves!

Fuck you for a few reasons, but mainly for not reading my post, or being too fucking stupid to understand it. 365 days? Kiss my fucking ass, son, I did 8 of those and thought I knew it all as well.

and look where that got you, you're right, you don't know shit

you're going to bash banner on his 1 year quit day?

fuck you, from me

[mantis]

All the stuff I think I know and wrote above could all be a bunch of bullshit.

most of your introduction sounds like a preamble to a cave!

It sounds like you need to dig a hole and just go ahead and die.

Your 3 or 4 weekend attempts, were just that attempts...We do or do not here! There is no try!

I, for one, am going to call crap... Tarpon is a good friend to call you on your bullshit. You need to get rid of your "stinking thinkin"
You have it part right, about where you fucked up before, but is that who you still are? If so, I see failure in your life.....

If you don't hold yourself accountable, and be a man of your word, then how is that man in the mirror any different than you?

You are no different from anyone here....you were right, you are an addict, you will always be an addict.

You don't want anyone to beat you up? Save the bush league stuff.....Okay Nancy, how should I hold your hand?


I just will say... If you make your mind up and figure out to what length you will go to obtain this, you will make it! If it be kicking and screaming the whole way then so be it... quit for today.....24 hours, then worry about tomorrow when it gets here.

See I was you, 365 days ago....I am quit for just today, and the days count themselves!

Fuck you for a few reasons, but mainly for not reading my post, or being too fucking stupid to understand it. 365 days? Kiss my fucking ass, son, I did 8 of those and thought I knew it all as well.