Starting now

[zam]

The shut door vs 1 day at a time.

I've learned that you need both. You need to shut the door, as well as go one day at a time. One MINUTE at a time, if necessary. (That was me, for sure. Mister Freak The Fuck Out.)

These concepts are NOT in opposition to one another. I didn't mean to suggest otherwise.


It's both: one millisecond at a time AND knowing you're done. Forever. With 100% certainty.

I know what you're saying, carumba, but this is not a time for being what you believe is "realistic." Get me? Being realistic is going to put your fingers back in that can, brother.

I am trying to "get you" ...and others, but I am in a bit of a catch 22. The more I think about it, the worse the craves are. I am better off acting like a 5 year old with my fingers in my ear singing lalala I can't hear you. Just deal with today with "No Mind" (quote from Last Samurai). Be quit today and don't worry or think about tomorrow. (the advice 'everyone' gives me when I am having a bad day)

It crushes me when I read on the forums that some people are craving at day 150....300 etc. That scares the living hell out of me and definitely weakens my resolve. It won't hurt my quit today, since I promised.

I can't wrap my mind around one day at a time and at the same time close the door forever. Seems contradictory....but I will keep trying to understand !

I'm in no position to help when it comes to closing the door, at least for the long term. But I have learned to deal much better with the craves. . Like you, I had days where I would obsess about the craves, and the craves would seem to multiply and pile up. It was sort of self-fulfilling. But my big break-through was the when I mentally sat myself down, and my mind and me had a little talk.
Basically, I seriously considered how far I was going to take the promise I made earlier that morning. The answer was very calming to me - I decided that if I calmly thought about it, I came to the conclusion that there was just no realistic way that I was going to dip today. For me, I think a lot of the anxiety had to do with me subconsciously trying to figure out a way to dip AND keep my word AND stay quit. Rationally seeing that this was not possible sort of made my mind surrender and say "ok, fuck it. I won't bother you for a while. But later we are gonna talk about this shit again."
And later me and myself do talk about it again. After 80-something days of this, I (1) always come to the same conclusion, (2) that conclusion comes much more quickly, and best of all (3) the need to even have that inner conversation comes MUCH less often.

Yes, I'm a psycho who apparently talks to himself, but I'm QUIT psycho.

[carumba10]

The shut door vs 1 day at a time.

I've learned that you need both. You need to shut the door, as well as go one day at a time. One MINUTE at a time, if necessary. (That was me, for sure. Mister Freak The Fuck Out.)

These concepts are NOT in opposition to one another. I didn't mean to suggest otherwise.


It's both: one millisecond at a time AND knowing you're done. Forever. With 100% certainty.

I know what you're saying, carumba, but this is not a time for being what you believe is "realistic." Get me? Being realistic is going to put your fingers back in that can, brother.

I am trying to "get you" ...and others, but I am in a bit of a catch 22. The more I think about it, the worse the craves are. I am better off acting like a 5 year old with my fingers in my ear singing lalala I can't hear you. Just deal with today with "No Mind" (quote from Last Samurai). Be quit today and don't worry or think about tomorrow. (the advice 'everyone' gives me when I am having a bad day)

It crushes me when I read on the forums that some people are craving at day 150....300 etc. That scares the living hell out of me and definitely weakens my resolve. It won't hurt my quit today, since I promised.

I can't wrap my mind around one day at a time and at the same time close the door forever. Seems contradictory....but I will keep trying to understand !

[Kubrick]

...  Why do you think a person would go back after pretty much beating the physical and emotional habit of dipping...

I'm surprised that nobody picked up and commented on this part of your question...

The emotional piece of this is the strongest part - the emotional/psychological addiction FAR outweighs the physical addiction, as I am sure all of you know.

This is the reason people can be 785 days into their quit and have a sudden urge to pull into a gas station and buy a can...the question is, do they or not?

Most of us - wrongly so - associated dipping with a comforting/coping tool. The whole nurture portion of the nature vs nurture debate. Repeat the stress that you want comfort from, the desire to be "comforted" returns.

Closing the door means re-wiring the mind to associate new, healthier coping mechanisms with the triggers you personally have. Posting roll, feeling the success of being yet another day quit, texting brothers when things are going downhill...

Taking control of your own behavior and OWNING the decisions YOU make...and knowing that being QUIT is the decision you WANT more than anything else, that is how you close the door on nic...

I also imagine a lot of started dipping when we were in our teens - 14-16. That's when I started. I thought I was pretty badass and knew everything back then, but now I know I was in fact a complete dumbass and still a kid. I'm not sure what nicotine does to a still developing brain, but the majority of my life during those formative years and beyond until just a few weeks ago was spent feeding that nicotine addiction.

As I think about that, most of my major life moments were experienced on nicotine, whether good or bad, that shit was always in my body and as I'm realizing, it does mess with your brain and being quit can be very hard to deal with when your brain is 20+ years used to having its nic fix. Well, I don't want to be that person anymore, that's why I'm here and why I quit with all of you today.

[CoachDoc]

...  Why do you think a person would go back after pretty much beating the physical and emotional habit of dipping...

I'm surprised that nobody picked up and commented on this part of your question...

The emotional piece of this is the strongest part - the emotional/psychological addiction FAR outweighs the physical addiction, as I am sure all of you know.

This is the reason people can be 785 days into their quit and have a sudden urge to pull into a gas station and buy a can...the question is, do they or not?

Most of us - wrongly so - associated dipping with a comforting/coping tool. The whole nurture portion of the nature vs nurture debate. Repeat the stress that you want comfort from, the desire to be "comforted" returns.

Closing the door means re-wiring the mind to associate new, healthier coping mechanisms with the triggers you personally have. Posting roll, feeling the success of being yet another day quit, texting brothers when things are going downhill...

Taking control of your own behavior and OWNING the decisions YOU make...and knowing that being QUIT is the decision you WANT more than anything else, that is how you close the door on nic...

[DeanTheCoot]

The shut door vs 1 day at a time.

I've learned that you need both. You need to shut the door, as well as go one day at a time. One MINUTE at a time, if necessary. (That was me, for sure. Mister Freak The Fuck Out.)

These concepts are NOT in opposition to one another. I didn't mean to suggest otherwise.

Hell, there was a time early in my quit where I *planned* a cave date (and talked about it at KTC) in an effort to trick my mind into believing I'd go back to the can. The idea was that this planned cave was a far-off reward for working so hard one day at a time for so long. Then, when I hit that date, I'd post roll, keep my promise, and reset my cave date.

This plan was stupid, if only because I soon learned that coming to terms with being done FOREVER was a better quit tool.

It's both: one millisecond at a time AND knowing you're done. Forever. With 100% certainty.

I know what you're saying, carumba, but this is not a time for being what you believe is "realistic." Get me? Being realistic is going to put your fingers back in that can, brother.

[Notdeadyet]

Shutting the door one day at a time?  Quitting is done one day at a time, no doubt.  But "burn the boats" and "shutting the door" describes the determination you need.  Maybe I'm getting off point...but I love being quit and discussing shit on KTC.  I owe everything to this site.  And I'll be here tomorrow because I shut the door on that shit.

That is a great thing that you knew with 100% certainty that you would always be quit.

I am too old and have seen too many things in my life to believe in that concept. There is not one thing in my life that I can say with 100% certainty or guarantee.

I can Guarantee with 100% certainty that if you don't put any nicotine in your body that you will be quit!

Just don't do it. Ban the shit. Eliminate the choice. Be willing to fight to the death to keep it out of your body. Never forget that you are a drug addict.

[carumba10]

Shutting the door one day at a time? Quitting is done one day at a time, no doubt. But "burn the boats" and "shutting the door" describes the determination you need. Maybe I'm getting off point...but I love being quit and discussing shit on KTC. I owe everything to this site. And I'll be here tomorrow because I shut the door on that shit.

That is a great thing that you knew with 100% certainty that you would always be quit.

I am too old and have seen too many things in my life to believe in that concept. There is not one thing in my life that I can say with 100% certainty or guarantee.

[Bean]

Shutting the door one day at a time? Quitting is done one day at a time, no doubt. But "burn the boats" and "shutting the door" describes the determination you need. Maybe I'm getting off point...but I love being quit and discussing shit on KTC. I owe everything to this site. And I'll be here tomorrow because I shut the door on that shit.

[carumba10]

This is a really great thread. The shut door vs 1 day at a time. I agree with the door shut.

I could not shut my door until my head was clear. My first 4 months were 1 day at a time. Then I got pissed at the nic bitch. At some point I was simply done. I acknowledged, then accepted, then embraced being an addict. Then I shut the door.

You can do it, right now bring your quit today. 1 day at a time. You must promise to reread this though. Sage advice.

Quit 1 day at a time...admit and accept you are an addict lifelong...shut the door.

I can see that. My door isn't closed either, but only in my 30s. So yea, for me it is one day at a time.....and I struggle with that concept.

[Scowick65]

This is a really great thread. The shut door vs 1 day at a time. I agree with the door shut.

I could not shut my door until my head was clear. My first 4 months were 1 day at a time. Then I got pissed at the nic bitch. At some point I was simply done. I acknowledged, then accepted, then embraced being an addict. Then I shut the door.

You can do it, right now bring your quit today. 1 day at a time. You must promise to reread this though. Sage advice.

Quit 1 day at a time...admit and accept you are an addict lifelong...shut the door.

[Mthomas3824]

Great question.  I agree with Dean and Rangy and want to add to it.  Youcandoit is exactly right...understanding shit like this will help everyone avoid mistakes. 

Shutting the door is the key.  I made nicotine part of my life.  I made myself an addict.  Addicts are excellent liars...very similar to con artists. The first person a conman fools is himself.  I can never escape addiction because I made it part of me.  I made it a part of things that I don't want to forget...baseball, camp, college, hunting trips, good times with friends, etc.  I added nicotine to everything in my life from age 15 to 40...like mixing in a big fucking turd in my ice cream and trying to eat around it.

I conned myself for all those years this way.  I could rationalize anything.  I'd set future quit dates, lie to my family (parents first, then wife and kids more recently)...real shithead stuff, you know?  I always knew it was bad for me, that I had to quit, that it would kill me, etc.  But I had made it part of my life...part of me.  Now, my challenge is ignore the nic bitch and focus on the part of me that I do like...or eat around the turd, so to speak. 

The key for me was finding my motivation to keep the door shut.  I had already lied to everyone and everything in my life.  What was going to be different this time?  One thing...I was quitting for the part of me that I like, that I'm proud of.    I can keep the door shut because it makes me a better person...better for my wife and kids, better son to my parents, a better brother, a better uncle for my nieces and nephews, a better example for my kids' and their friends...a better me in every fucking measureable way.     

I have fought for 586 days.  Tomorrow, I will fight again. It has become easier and easier with each day as I put more ice cream in my bowl.  I just have to remember that the turd is always in there, too.

'clap' 'clap' 'clap'

Bean: I love this. I am printing it. Thanks good stuff!!!!

[Bean]

Great question. I agree with Dean and Rangy and want to add to it. Youcandoit is exactly right...understanding shit like this will help everyone avoid mistakes.

Shutting the door is the key. I made nicotine part of my life. I made myself an addict. Addicts are excellent liars...very similar to con artists. The first person a conman fools is himself. I can never escape addiction because I made it part of me. I made it a part of things that I don't want to forget...baseball, camp, college, hunting trips, good times with friends, etc. I added nicotine to everything in my life from age 15 to 40...like mixing in a big fucking turd in my ice cream and trying to eat around it.

I conned myself for all those years this way. I could rationalize anything. I'd set future quit dates, lie to my family (parents first, then wife and kids more recently)...real shithead stuff, you know? I always knew it was bad for me, that I had to quit, that it would kill me, etc. But I had made it part of my life...part of me. Now, my challenge is ignore the nic bitch and focus on the part of me that I do like...or eat around the turd, so to speak.

The key for me was finding my motivation to keep the door shut. I had already lied to everyone and everything in my life. What was going to be different this time? One thing...I was quitting for the part of me that I like, that I'm proud of. I can keep the door shut because it makes me a better person...better for my wife and kids, better son to my parents, a better brother, a better uncle for my nieces and nephews, a better example for my kids' and their friends...a better me in every fucking measureable way.

I have fought for 586 days. Tomorrow, I will fight again. It has become easier and easier with each day as I put more ice cream in my bowl. I just have to remember that the turd is always in there, too.

[rangy96]

I have personally experienced quitting for months to then break down and start again.  I have read about others with the same history.

Why do you think a person would go back after pretty much beating the physical and emotional habit of dipping.  I would be curios of anyone's perspective - it may help me and others.

I am day 8 so I have a way to go - but just read another post of someone who quit for 6 months and then when back.

Thanks

You know why? Because they don't shut the door.

I hate to say it - no...wait...no I don't - but your own words illustrate what I mean:

"I am day 8 so I have a way to go."

No, brother. You're looking at it all wrong. You have FOREVER to go. You want to quit? Really quit? You want to BE quit and LIVE quit? That door needs to close, man. You can never have another shred, drag, lick or sniff of tobacco again in your life. Ever. Get that through your head. Never again. Know it. Accept it. Live it. That's the only way. It's a complete change from anything you've done before. And it's sad and shitty and difficult and sometime torture, but also the path to freedom.

You're going to fail. Understand what I'm saying? That's all I can say for sure, after failing myself 100 times and quitting ONCE. Dig me? Am I making sense?

I hope you're getting the sense that I'm not being combative here. Not at all. I'm not fucking with you. I'm not bullying you. I want you to WIN. It's at your grasp. No bullshit. But it's all in your perspective.

And it's hard hard hard work. Forever. Until you get your head around that, you're fucked.

Just gonna follow up here. Couldn't agree more with deanthecoot. Quitters gotta shut the door.

And if this doesn't make the quitter really sad to do so, then they are probably leaving the door propped open a little bit just so they can peek back inside addiction. When you close the door, all the fond memories you have of tobacco use and how cool it was and all that romanticized bull shit are gonna come flying at you 100 miles an hour.

Everyone responds differently, but if the quitter isn't undergoing some emotional stuff that is significantly different than before (i.e if this quit feels like all the other failed ones), then I'm betting the door is still propped open.

Again, not accusing you of leaving the door open or anything, I just really relate to the whole "close the door" idea. The moment in time that I closed the door will forever be etched in my brain. It still makes me misty eyed. It really really hurt my feelings. But as deanthecoot says, it is the true path to freedom.

Stay quit. PM me if I can help you.

[chitownsnus]

I have personally experienced quitting for months to then break down and start again.  I have read about others with the same history.

Why do you think a person would go back after pretty much beating the physical and emotional habit of dipping.  I would be curios of anyone's perspective - it may help me and others.

I am day 8 so I have a way to go - but just read another post of someone who quit for 6 months and then when back.

Thanks

The combination of a trigger or a romantic memory with the idea that they will have just one.

Then the law of addiction is applied. The law of physiological addiction states that administration of a drug to an addict will cause reestablishment of the dependence on that substance. I didn't write that law. I don't execute that law. My job is much simpler than that. All I do is interpret the law. This means, by taking a chew, the dipper either goes back to full-fledged dipping or goes through the withdrawal process associated with quitting. Most don't opt for the withdrawal.

Let me add to the good stuff that Scowick just wrote.

Early in our quits we are vulnerable because of the power of the addiction as Scowick has explained. The addiction will always be there and we need to guard against it although the struggles of the immediacy of quitting diminish.

The word, "guard," is very important. Most quitters who fail, having been off the stuff for a longer period of time, fail because of complacency. They stop guarding their quits; they stop posting roll and quitting is no longer a priority. That's just when the nicBitch pounces.

Keep involved in this site and post roll every day; keep serious about your quit, and you will succeed.

I'm not by any means an expert here, but I once read about alcoholics that were heavily addicted fall down drunks that came clean for a long period of time and then relapsed. It was noted that they immediately went right back to where they left off and did not gradually return.

[DeanTheCoot]

I have personally experienced quitting for months to then break down and start again. I have read about others with the same history.

Why do you think a person would go back after pretty much beating the physical and emotional habit of dipping. I would be curios of anyone's perspective - it may help me and others.

I am day 8 so I have a way to go - but just read another post of someone who quit for 6 months and then when back.

Thanks

You know why? Because they don't shut the door.

I hate to say it - no...wait...no I don't - but your own words illustrate what I mean:

"I am day 8 so I have a way to go."

No, brother. You're looking at it all wrong. You have FOREVER to go. You want to quit? Really quit? You want to BE quit and LIVE quit? That door needs to close, man. You can never have another shred, drag, lick or sniff of tobacco again in your life. Ever. Get that through your head. Never again. Know it. Accept it. Live it. That's the only way. It's a complete change from anything you've done before. And it's sad and shitty and difficult and sometime torture, but also the path to freedom.

You're going to fail. Understand what I'm saying? That's all I can say for sure, after failing myself 100 times and quitting ONCE. Dig me? Am I making sense?

I hope you're getting the sense that I'm not being combative here. Not at all. I'm not fucking with you. I'm not bullying you. I want you to WIN. It's at your grasp. No bullshit. But it's all in your perspective.

And it's hard hard hard work. Forever. Until you get your head around that, you're fucked.