Introduction

[rickddd]

You sound like you're doing great, Ryan, nice work! Have a great time on the family trip next week.

[SirDerek]

Doing fantastic Deisel, thanks for asking.

Amazing how much change a week can bring. Last weekend I was crying like a bitch about how bad I wanted to cave. Today, dip is the last thing I could want. I have had no desire for it the last 2-3 days. I am sure there are still plenty of rough days to come but right now just the thought of tobacco sickens me. I am so angry that I became such a slave to that can. I have no idea how that shit took such a grip over my life. I thought I was a bad ass, but it turns out that I was a weakling. Controlled by a wintergreen can of fucking dirt. I would give anything to relive those years without chew.

Dipped since I was 15 and am now almost 38. The last 8-10 years was very heavy use. I hope the damage I have done to my body does not come back to haunt me. I hope the bad example I set for my sons does not come back to haunt me. I cannot believe I coached my sons sports teams and dipped in front of those children. What a wretched fuck I was.

I guess we cannot change the past. But I am pretty optimistic about the future. I think I am gonna figure how to carry on without it. Things are still weird, but they are better. I am begining to see that.

Going on a weekend trip with the family next weekend. It will be the first trip ever that the fucking can and a spit bottle is not going with me. WHAT FREEDOM!! I can be with the kids the whole time, no sneaking away, no dip in the truck on the way there, swim in the pool without a dip. I can't wait.

Wow the coaching comment hits home here too, was in the same position.

And like you, though it took a little longer, there was a time in my quit where I began to get totally disgusted at the site of others doing it as well as the thought of me doing it ever again.

Well done, keep being strong, I feel the corner has been turned, and never again for any reason.

[Its_Got2Happen]

Doing fantastic Deisel, thanks for asking.

Amazing how much change a week can bring. Last weekend I was crying like a bitch about how bad I wanted to cave. Today, dip is the last thing I could want. I have had no desire for it the last 2-3 days. I am sure there are still plenty of rough days to come but right now just the thought of tobacco sickens me. I am so angry that I became such a slave to that can. I have no idea how that shit took such a grip over my life. I thought I was a bad ass, but it turns out that I was a weakling. Controlled by a wintergreen can of fucking dirt. I would give anything to relive those years without chew.

Dipped since I was 15 and am now almost 38. The last 8-10 years was very heavy use. I hope the damage I have done to my body does not come back to haunt me. I hope the bad example I set for my sons does not come back to haunt me. I cannot believe I coached my sons sports teams and dipped in front of those children. What a wretched fuck I was.

I guess we cannot change the past. But I am pretty optimistic about the future. I think I am gonna figure how to carry on without it. Things are still weird, but they are better. I am begining to see that.

Going on a weekend trip with the family next weekend. It will be the first trip ever that the fucking can and a spit bottle is not going with me. WHAT FREEDOM!! I can be with the kids the whole time, no sneaking away, no dip in the truck on the way there, swim in the pool without a dip. I can't wait.

[Diesel2112]

You doing alright man?

[Diesel2112]

As I reflect on this weekend, I am grateful for this site. I was nearly defeated by a great lie this weekend. Because of KTC, my Quit is still alive and growing stronger. In this site lies the wisdom, the tools and the support that can free us from this bondage.

Thank you for the book link SM. I only have a few pages left to read. As I read it I was reminded of a Word of Wisdom post I read last week. I think the post summarizes a good portion of the book.

Quote:
"Myth Busters 101: Understanding Nicotine and Stress
There are several myths about nicotine and stress that need to be debunked if you are going to understand whatÂ’s happening in your lives right now. The use of nicotine actually has a seesaw effect in our bodies and minds in relationship to stress, and many quitters experience increased anxiety, rage and nervous tension at the beginning of their quits.

Myth #1 – Nicotine helps me relax.
I used to think that dip helped me to calm down and chill out, especially at the end of a busy day. However, studies have shown that nicotine actually does just the opposite. The physiological and psychological effects of nicotine addiction create a “void” that only the drug can satisfy or fill. It causes an increase in heart rate, blood pressure, respiration, and blood glucose levels. Taking a dip to relax is merely taking a dip to cure a nicotine craving, substituting addiction for relaxation.

Myth #2 – Nicotine gives me pleasure.
One of the reasons that I hung on to dipping so long is that I once thought it provided pleasure or happiness. An addict’s logic can rationalize most anything. Think of it this way: Suppose that every day I undergo a physical beating with a whip which causes intense pain and suffering. However, once every week the beatings are mercifully taken away, and on that day I sit back to soak in the “pleasure” of not being hit. What I’ve done is confused the absence of pain with pleasure. The beatings have conditioned me to equate pleasure with the absence of the abuse. Nicotine addiction does just that. It creates a pain (the craving) that is “removed” when more of the drug is fed into our bodies. It conditions us to think that the absence of the craving equals satisfaction, substituting addiction for pleasure.

Myth #3 – Nicotine helps me deal with stress.
This one was a real eye opener for me. When I was experiencing a difficult situation or intense problem I would always reach for the can. Why? Because I thought it was my ally against stress. When I quit my world came crashing down and I ended up having high levels of anxiety and panic attacks. An addictÂ’s mind might lead one to think that the nicotine was keeping me from all that stuff but in reality it was the cause. Nicotine served as a substitute not a cure. When I dealt with the craves I thought I was dealing with the stress but that was not the case. I never actually handled or solved the stress; I only took the drug and when I needed to face stress without it I discovered that I had always been hiding from my problems, substituting addiction for reality."

That is good shit right there. IG2H (Ryan)

sM recommended the same book to me. Ive probably read it 5 times now. It really helped me understand what I was battling and how nic does and doesn't work. Consider it another tool. You got this man!

[Its_Got2Happen]

As I reflect on this weekend, I am grateful for this site. I was nearly defeated by a great lie this weekend. Because of KTC, my Quit is still alive and growing stronger. In this site lies the wisdom, the tools and the support that can free us from this bondage.

Thank you for the book link SM. I only have a few pages left to read. As I read it I was reminded of a Word of Wisdom post I read last week. I think the post summarizes a good portion of the book.

Quote:
"Myth Busters 101: Understanding Nicotine and Stress
There are several myths about nicotine and stress that need to be debunked if you are going to understand whatÂ’s happening in your lives right now. The use of nicotine actually has a seesaw effect in our bodies and minds in relationship to stress, and many quitters experience increased anxiety, rage and nervous tension at the beginning of their quits.

Myth #1 – Nicotine helps me relax.
I used to think that dip helped me to calm down and chill out, especially at the end of a busy day. However, studies have shown that nicotine actually does just the opposite. The physiological and psychological effects of nicotine addiction create a “void” that only the drug can satisfy or fill. It causes an increase in heart rate, blood pressure, respiration, and blood glucose levels. Taking a dip to relax is merely taking a dip to cure a nicotine craving, substituting addiction for relaxation.

Myth #2 – Nicotine gives me pleasure.
One of the reasons that I hung on to dipping so long is that I once thought it provided pleasure or happiness. An addict’s logic can rationalize most anything. Think of it this way: Suppose that every day I undergo a physical beating with a whip which causes intense pain and suffering. However, once every week the beatings are mercifully taken away, and on that day I sit back to soak in the “pleasure” of not being hit. What I’ve done is confused the absence of pain with pleasure. The beatings have conditioned me to equate pleasure with the absence of the abuse. Nicotine addiction does just that. It creates a pain (the craving) that is “removed” when more of the drug is fed into our bodies. It conditions us to think that the absence of the craving equals satisfaction, substituting addiction for pleasure.

Myth #3 – Nicotine helps me deal with stress.
This one was a real eye opener for me. When I was experiencing a difficult situation or intense problem I would always reach for the can. Why? Because I thought it was my ally against stress. When I quit my world came crashing down and I ended up having high levels of anxiety and panic attacks. An addictÂ’s mind might lead one to think that the nicotine was keeping me from all that stuff but in reality it was the cause. Nicotine served as a substitute not a cure. When I dealt with the craves I thought I was dealing with the stress but that was not the case. I never actually handled or solved the stress; I only took the drug and when I needed to face stress without it I discovered that I had always been hiding from my problems, substituting addiction for reality."

That is good shit right there. IG2H (Ryan)

[Mthomas3824]

Thish is a really good thread. It enlightens all of us to draw a line in the sand daily. If its day one or day 1001. We must always rally and say, "quitters on this side, nicotine and her sympathizers on that side.

You can't quit nic and love her too. If you have an enemy, it only means you stood for something.

I have stood with the brotherhood of quit for 306 days. Nicotine, and USTobacco is my enemy. I am at war with them until they die or I die. No truce, no surrender.

Got2, I know you want to quit and kudos for really listening, learning and you are winning.

Be a sponge and stand with us today. No tobacco crosses our line! Not now and not today!

Quit today with you sporting a record of 306 wins Zero losses! Life is best when you are quit.

[Its_Got2Happen]

It seems I forgot somthing over the last few days. I am not TRYING to quit, I did quit. Thank you guys for remnding me of the basics. There is a boat load of wisdom and talent on this site.

[Skoal Monster]

http://www.killthecan.org/facts/2weeks.asp

This is the link for the two week weakness. Very common to struggle all of a sudden around this time. It's short lived so don't stress on it.

I reccommended a book by Alan Carr - here it is on PDF.
http://media.wix.com/ugd/74fa87_2010cc5 ... 34a829.pdf

It isn't attitude. But it is all mental games for the next couple months. Remember this is Chess not checkers. Your inner addict is going to try to outsmart you at every turn. Thats the value of posting up your thoughts here. This place works like a mirror that will reflect back the truth. You can fool yourself, and probably some of us, but never all of us. Mostly because we all stood where you stand now. We know.

Don't hide the fact your struggling, your here for support.

Your original post raised alarm because you were creating reasons to start again. Thats known as use justification.

You and I both know that you actually DONT want to dip again. What you want is to feel normal. You needed nicotine to feel that way and so did I. The truth is that we were normal before we ever started using. Then eventually we had to use just to maintain normal.

Once you've kept quit for awhile you will return to feeling good without nicotine. Your no longer physically dependant on a drug to make you feel ok.

Be patient my friend, 13 days of quit is awesome, but it can't undo all the damage. Give it time. Until then try to push past all this and start enjoying life without nic.

Also Maybe this will help

THE VOID

Silly rabbits, nicotine wasn't filling the void it was creating it.

What exactly is it that your foggy mind imagines you lost? The only thing that chew is good for is to keep you addicted to chew.

You think you miss it? Is it the morning ritual of scraping the dead skin off your lip? Did it make you a better husband, father, son. Perhaps you miss being tethered to a dripping sewer of a spitter. I know!!! It made you smarter and the lump in your lip was a real hit with the ladies . You didn't lose anything , instead you have gained everything, perhaps your very life.

Nothing to miss thats all illusion created by the addiction

"Bullshit" you say "I remember that it was good and I liked it"
You miss that good dip? the perfect wedge that you think you remember. I bet you have a romantic memory , mine is of dipping in the bleachers at the highschool game on Friday night. (Secret for you) That's not the dip you get when you cave. Ohhhh nooooo buttercup, you get a dip that was just like your LAST ONE. Remember that lame chew? The one you had to have just to feed your habit, you had to think about where to put it because everywhere else hurt. Except this dip will be full of guilt and shame and failure. How could you start again when you have read the Tom Kern story? or looked at ODT's cancer surgery, or spent any time here at all?

Don't romanticize your addiction, if it was so great why did you want to stop in the first place.

It isnt the one good chew you get when you fail , its the 10,000 shitty chews that will come with it. How long will it take you to get back to 30 days of freedom? How long did it take you this time? for me it was years in between quits. You can't risk that, how many chances until you look your son or daughter in the eyes and tell them you killed yourself? and you did it on purpose. The next dip could be the one
that kills you. It isn't likely but the possibility is there. Jenny Kern said the odds of getting cancer from chew don't matter if your the one that gets it. Just sayin

Still on the fence eh, " it was always there for me" and " it would calm me down" you mumble. Nicotine is a vasoconstrictor it raises your blood pressure. It is also a stimulant. Sounds calming alright . More illusions of your nicotine soaked cerabellum. When you are angry you produce chemicals like adrenaline and cortisol. These literally take the nic out of your blood stream. So you go into withdrawl. So....we...would have a dip, and feel better. The calm you felt... was only the relief from withdrawl.

But we all believed it was THE DIP that calmed us, it was in reality the DIP that caused alot of the stress. Nicotine creating a void (can you see it yet)

The feel better high you seek, the replacement for your so called void? I think PBkids shrink friend was close but not quite there. If you can admit the void is caused by nicotine and your addiction, then the opposite must be true as well. Recovery from the addiction will fill the void. You can see this prove out in your own group and those ahead of you. Posts such as it was great to hang out with my kid and not worry about a place to spit or a spitter. Posts on how nice it feels to not HAVE to lie and hide. How proud you feel, how proud your loved ones are. Those feelings of relief, calm , become more and more as your quit progresses. THAT my addict brethren will fill the void, THAT is the good and the positive stuff that your already working for. (another secret) it's worth it and it feels so much better than you do now.

your body has to heal, your mind needs to heal. Dip literally changes the way your brain works, and it changes how your body produces and uses all of its feel good chemicals. It effects serotonin and adrenaline. The fog in my opinion is created by a lack of chemical production when your brain is trying to figure out what the hell to do with out a steady stream of posion ( you knew that nicotine is a potent neurotoxin right). Anti depressants act on the same chemicals that nic did. Coincidence that Wellbutrin does the same thing? You may feel depressed, the funk, the fog, the blahs and the fuck its. It hits with a repeatable timing in all the groups. Common sense tells you that a pattern that occurs across every group could be reality.This is your brain healing. Literally nicotine receptors are dying and new neuro pathways are forming. This is the price you must pay to earn your freedom. Embrace it. Rkymtnman gave you the best piece of advice yet. Excercise, Yes you frito lay lovin pork rind munching fattys need to get off your collective asses and excercise. Walking counts if you put some distance there. Excercise works on your body just like the rest of the stuff above. Excercise releases endorphins that will help you feel better. It is scientifically proven that you will have less craves and less severe craves AND a larger number of you droolers will stay quit. Thor's Pajammer is correct with meditation, check out what meditation does to brain chemistry as well. Its all the same , help yourself and take a walk.

As Forest Gump says thats all I have to say about that. Sorry for the long post, I hope it helps. It is really just a collection of things I've picked up from those who helped me. Some is from posts you'll find if you dig hard enough. One day at a time buttercups. If I can do it so can you. Now seriously put the pickle down and buy a ab roller.

Quitting can really be the easiest hard thing you'll ever do. Or it can be the hardest easy thing. Depends on how you flip the switch in your mind.

sM 

[Diesel2112]

Don't stop writhing you knuckle head. Getting everything out can do nothing but help you. And quit worrying about if you're wearing us out. Just focus on fucking quitting.

Its like I tell my 3rd and 4th grade basketball players who get down when I yell at them. "The day I stop yelling at you is the day I stop believing in you. If I didn't think you could do it, or I didn't care anymore I simply wouldnt say ANYTHING to you."

I know you're not in 3rd grade but the same thing applies here. Look at the support you're getting, no just from me but all the guys on this site. We all want you to succeed and know you can do it. If we didn't we wouldn't say shit to you.

Quit thinking about it so God Damn much. Start thinking of other shit like banging a co worker (a female hopefully), sports, your kids, how to make more money, how cool it would be to fly, etc..it doesnt have to be real stuff just THE SAME STUFF YOU USED TO THINK ABOUT BEFORE YOU QUIT.

You got this man. We believe in you. If we didn't we wouldn't say shit .

[kana]

Lot of painful truths expressed here.  Sounds like I might be screwed.  I guess success lies in the "attitude", of the quitter and perhaps I need to develop a better one.  You see, I have quite a history of intentionally sabotoging my own quits.  It is a pretty effective method to give the addict mind what it wants.  I am sure there is a bullshit, sissy tone in my last post, (the 100 day thing, etc).  I am just thinking outloud and being honest.

I hopeful that my shitty attitude does not negatively impact any other quitters, especially the newer ones.  I wonder if I should quit posting on the intro?  Might be more appropriate to vent in chat or buy a journal or something?  If anyone feels they have expended enough energy on my quit, feel free to unfollow this particular thread.  Thanks for your time, I have treasured every word.  There is very good reason for your instinct, I am sure there are much better dogs to bet on. 

Ahh, all that said, OK here goes with the better attitude.  I am still in this fight and doing pretty damn good.  I am winning.  I am kicking the crap out of this nic bitch so far.  I have wrestled with many of her lies already.  Hey they make alot of sense to an addict.  Despite that, I have stuffed her head in the fucking toilet for the last 12 days, and will continue to do so.  Ryan vs Nic, 12 wins zero losses.  I have successfully managed every crave and turned my back on every temptation.  Posting roll everyday, and keeping that promise. 

OK that's all I've got.  I am fearful that I am just going through the motions.  I don't know why I still want it so bad still.  I guess not verbalizing that fact is considered having a good attitude. 

Holy rambling clusterfuck!!  I gotta go post roll.  I quit today, I am gonna go live my life.  Keep it simple stupid.  Thanks for all the words.

'clap'
That sounds much better! Don't quit writing it helps you and those reading. Plus it gives us something to dissect, and think about.

yes much better, It's good to get things off your chest. It'll clear your head, and in the process someone will read your post and benefit as well. It's all a cycle of helping each other, and that's why it works. When I was confused or craving I would read a lot. There was alway's somebody that said just the right thing to ease my pain. Chat, post, phone. doesn't matter how you reach out as long as you stay involved and use your tools.
I remember early on in my quit I would read the elders saying (it will get better, the waters fine) Well I'm plugging along now and can say that it really does get better. peace

[Wt57]

Lot of painful truths expressed here. Sounds like I might be screwed. I guess success lies in the "attitude", of the quitter and perhaps I need to develop a better one. You see, I have quite a history of intentionally sabotoging my own quits. It is a pretty effective method to give the addict mind what it wants. I am sure there is a bullshit, sissy tone in my last post, (the 100 day thing, etc). I am just thinking outloud and being honest.

I hopeful that my shitty attitude does not negatively impact any other quitters, especially the newer ones. I wonder if I should quit posting on the intro? Might be more appropriate to vent in chat or buy a journal or something? If anyone feels they have expended enough energy on my quit, feel free to unfollow this particular thread. Thanks for your time, I have treasured every word. There is very good reason for your instinct, I am sure there are much better dogs to bet on.

Ahh, all that said, OK here goes with the better attitude. I am still in this fight and doing pretty damn good. I am winning. I am kicking the crap out of this nic bitch so far. I have wrestled with many of her lies already. Hey they make alot of sense to an addict. Despite that, I have stuffed her head in the fucking toilet for the last 12 days, and will continue to do so. Ryan vs Nic, 12 wins zero losses. I have successfully managed every crave and turned my back on every temptation. Posting roll everyday, and keeping that promise.

OK that's all I've got. I am fearful that I am just going through the motions. I don't know why I still want it so bad still. I guess not verbalizing that fact is considered having a good attitude.

Holy rambling clusterfuck!! I gotta go post roll. I quit today, I am gonna go live my life. Keep it simple stupid. Thanks for all the words.

'clap'
That sounds much better! Don't quit writing it helps you and those reading. Plus it gives us something to dissect, and think about.

[Its_Got2Happen]

Lot of painful truths expressed here. Sounds like I might be screwed. I guess success lies in the "attitude", of the quitter and perhaps I need to develop a better one. You see, I have quite a history of intentionally sabotoging my own quits. It is a pretty effective method to give the addict mind what it wants. I am sure there is a bullshit, sissy tone in my last post, (the 100 day thing, etc). I am just thinking outloud and being honest.

I hopeful that my shitty attitude does not negatively impact any other quitters, especially the newer ones. I wonder if I should quit posting on the intro? Might be more appropriate to vent in chat or buy a journal or something? If anyone feels they have expended enough energy on my quit, feel free to unfollow this particular thread. Thanks for your time, I have treasured every word. There is very good reason for your instinct, I am sure there are much better dogs to bet on.

Ahh, all that said, OK here goes with the better attitude. I am still in this fight and doing pretty damn good. I am winning. I am kicking the crap out of this nic bitch so far. I have wrestled with many of her lies already. Hey they make alot of sense to an addict. Despite that, I have stuffed her head in the fucking toilet for the last 12 days, and will continue to do so. Ryan vs Nic, 12 wins zero losses. I have successfully managed every crave and turned my back on every temptation. Posting roll everyday, and keeping that promise.

OK that's all I've got. I am fearful that I am just going through the motions. I don't know why I still want it so bad still. I guess not verbalizing that fact is considered having a good attitude.

Holy rambling clusterfuck!! I gotta go post roll. I quit today, I am gonna go live my life. Keep it simple stupid. Thanks for all the words.

[Kubrick]

Just in case you didn't see SM's words of wisdom:

My advice is simple, stop fixating on chewing. You quit, go live your life.

[Diesel2112]

Lmao- you just hit what's known as the two week weakness. It will pass. Let's not focus on hitting 100 just yet lil buddy. Let's focus on one day at a time. As for your current mental entanglement.....

When using you wish you were quit

When quit you wish you were using

Which of these two is the truth?
The other one is just addiction. Hold tight to your memory of wanting to quit. Did you pray? Beg? Wish? Hope? To be quit? Remember the shame and frustration of trying so many times and failing? If your like me you wanted to be quit bad. I know you have a memory of broken promises, guilt , or something similar. Do you really want to go back to that? You deserve more than that life.

My advice is simple, stop fixating on chewing. You quit, go live your life. Besides, have you ever known anybody that said "I'm so glad I started chewing again" the dip you get when you cave isn't the one your lusting for. It won't be a "good " dip. Instead it will be just like the 10,000 shitty ones that came before it. The ones that you had to have because the can owned you.

That shit doesn't fill the void it created it

Listen to the skoal monster. When I was a drivrling mess, his words seemed to really reach me and make sense. He's a titan of quit. You would be wise to heed his advice..