Author Topic: Quitting for real  (Read 16381 times)

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Offline Scowick65

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Re: Busted
« Reply #49 on: July 31, 2014, 02:42:00 PM »
Quote from: Nolaq
Quote from: Dagranger
Day 400. Thought I’d write a thought on something that I have been thinking about lately. I have made it a point to read every intro that rolls through here. Sometimes I think “this guy is gone in a week” and I am wrong. Rarely do I say, “This guy gets it” and the guy ends up caving. What is the magic ingredient that separates the guys and gals who “get it” from those that don’t? They have to be cognizant of their addiction, and motivated to take back control of their life.

Seems like I am saying something everyone knows right? Sort of, but I feel everyone comes to this site ready to fight against their nicotine use.Â…Not everyone comes to the site ready for a never ending fight against their addiction to nicotineÂ….but those that do are already a step ahead of everyone else. If you are here because you are afraid for your health, or because your family is urging you to, those motivators can help your quit, but if you are not motivated to stop listening to your addiction and taking control of your life, those motivators are nothing but speed bumps on your way back to packing your lip.
Well said! And congrats on the 4th floor!
spot on! congrats!

The day I admitted I was addicted to nicotine was the day I controlled nicotine instead of nicotine controlling me. It did not make quitting easy, but I did call all of the shots.

Offline Nolaq

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Re: Busted
« Reply #48 on: July 31, 2014, 02:05:00 PM »
Quote from: Dagranger
Day 400. Thought I’d write a thought on something that I have been thinking about lately. I have made it a point to read every intro that rolls through here. Sometimes I think “this guy is gone in a week” and I am wrong. Rarely do I say, “This guy gets it” and the guy ends up caving. What is the magic ingredient that separates the guys and gals who “get it” from those that don’t? They have to be cognizant of their addiction, and motivated to take back control of their life.

Seems like I am saying something everyone knows right? Sort of, but I feel everyone comes to this site ready to fight against their nicotine use.Â…Not everyone comes to the site ready for a never ending fight against their addiction to nicotineÂ….but those that do are already a step ahead of everyone else. If you are here because you are afraid for your health, or because your family is urging you to, those motivators can help your quit, but if you are not motivated to stop listening to your addiction and taking control of your life, those motivators are nothing but speed bumps on your way back to packing your lip.
Well said! And congrats on the 4th floor!
What is your major malfunction?!?!?!?!

Offline Tuco

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Re: Busted
« Reply #47 on: July 31, 2014, 01:48:00 PM »
Just read your intro, 1 year, and 400 day posts. All good stuff. It's so reassuring to see that so many others have been in essentially the same boat and have blazed a mighty trail. You've given this guy barely 5 days in something to lean on.

Offline Dagranger

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Re: Busted
« Reply #46 on: July 31, 2014, 01:36:00 PM »
Day 400. Thought I’d write a thought on something that I have been thinking about lately. I have made it a point to read every intro that rolls through here. Sometimes I think “this guy is gone in a week” and I am wrong. Rarely do I say, “This guy gets it” and the guy ends up caving. What is the magic ingredient that separates the guys and gals who “get it” from those that don’t? They have to be cognizant of their addiction, and motivated to take back control of their life.

Seems like I am saying something everyone knows right? Sort of, but I feel everyone comes to this site ready to fight against their nicotine use.Â…Not everyone comes to the site ready for a never ending fight against their addiction to nicotineÂ….but those that do are already a step ahead of everyone else. If you are here because you are afraid for your health, or because your family is urging you to, those motivators can help your quit, but if you are not motivated to stop listening to your addiction and taking control of your life, those motivators are nothing but speed bumps on your way back to packing your lip.

Offline LDIDDY

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Re: Busted
« Reply #45 on: June 26, 2014, 09:37:00 AM »
Quote from: SirDerek
Quote from: Dagranger
I hit the 1 year mark today and I do it very humbly. Quitting dip and staying quit is no small endeavor. On June 27th of 2013 I had had enoughÂ…and here I am 1 year later, still quitting one day at a time. Thought IÂ’d take this occasion to pass along a few of the thoughts that have helped me quit along the way. Most of the past year I spent putting my head down here at KTC, just posting roll and grinding; focusing on my quit only. Lately IÂ’m trying to pay it back a little, so consider this post a bit of catch up. I may have written some of these before but hope it reaches new people and helps with their quits. Unfortunately for some, I swear a lot and spell terribly.

1.One day quit is an accomplishment, so is two days, 10 days, 50 days, in fact every fucking day you are quit is an accomplishment because no doubt some other sorry sap has caved after being quit the same number of days you are quit now. DonÂ’t be afraid to pat yourself on the back every once in a while. Then start grinding again.

2.Three things you need to quitÂ…1. An absolute desire to stop dipping, if you arenÂ’t sure if you want to be quit, you wonÂ’t be quit for long. 2. An over-riding anger. Anger at the tobacco companies, anger that you are an addict, anger that quitting is so fucking hard, anger at being a lying shit to so many. I donÂ’t know how many craves I staved off by being unrelentingly pissed off, but itÂ’s been the biggest tool in my toolbox of quit. 3. Your daily promise has to mean something. So many people post roll and cave that same day; that drives me fucking crazy. The roll has to be treated as sacred. If you are going to cave then cave, but donÂ’t do it after posting roll. Too many people rely on that roll post to get them through the day, for the weak willed to treat that post like garbage.

3.The sale of dip is illegal in most of Europe and AustraliaÂ….Still think dip is fairly safe? ThatÂ’s two continents who think differently.

4.I still canÂ’t get over the fact that a dip crave is essentially an order from my brain to put a weed in my mouthÂ…and for 26 years I obeyed that order, and now for 1 year I have stopped listening to my brain, but itÂ’s fucking hard. Explain that to someone who doesnÂ’t know anything about nicotine and theyÂ’ll think youÂ’re insane.

5.To all you ninja dippers, you cannot be ninja quitters. I hid my addiction from my wife, family, friends, and coworkers; but I shared my quit with all of them, even though most people I told didnÂ’t know what I was talking about. Because as ninjas go, I was a good one. Opening up essentially created an army of accountability to keep me quit. One thing ninjas hate is eyes on them.

6.Duck Fips (October 2013). I havenÂ’t met any of you, I could pass you by on the street without knowing who you are, but despite that I would be devastated to let you guys down if I caved. So is the power of KTC. Thanks for quitting with me.

7.I have no idea why people stop posting roll after 100 days. There is no doubt that my posts (my promises) have kept me quit on a lot of days since day 100. IÂ’m not saying that you canÂ’t make it without KTC, but to me itÂ’s like throwing the life vests off the boat before reaching the shore.
8.In a weird way having such a hard time quitting is helping to keep me quit. If the early stages of quitting were easier, I might have caved earlier because I would have no worries about going through the insanity of the first 100 days again. Embrace the suck!

9.I always think of quitting like trying to stand up in the water at the beach. The first 10 days are like being out there in a hurricane; it is going to take everything you got just to keep standing. After that, the waves calm down but they still keep hitting you. If you don't keep focused a wave can pull you under. Unfortunately for us addicts, we are always fighting waves; they just grow less in size. This is the bed we made for ourselves. But the second you get pissed off about the waves all you need to do is look around. You're at the fucking beach! Life is good.

10.If you have a dip dream, or more specifically one of those dreams where you realize you caved and donÂ’t know what to tell the KTC brothers. Rejoice! That is one of the greatest tools you will get. Now you know how shitty it will feel to cave.

11.The odds are against you as a quitter of dip. HereÂ’s a link Click here to studies done by British and Dutch researchers finding nicotine harder to quit than crystal meth and cocaine. Reinforces what I have believed since quitting, DIPPING IS FOR THE SOFT, QUITTING IS FOR THE HARD. No way can you be a quitter without being a stone cold, single minded, motherfucking assassin. Quitting is not for the feint hearted.

12.I am an ex-dipperÂ….I am not an ex-addict, I am as addicted now as I was 1 year ago. I will go to my fucking grave addicted to dip. But, if IÂ’m going to be addicted the rest of my life, I plan to be kicking my addiction in the dick every damn day.
Thanks for reading my ramble. 365 days quit.
Congrats my friend, well done and hope you celebrate and continue to stick around.
Congratulations and well done. Now on to Year Two...... one day at a time.
What's the difference between a liberal and a puppy??? The puppy stops whining and shitting on everything when he grows up.

Offline SirDerek

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Re: Busted
« Reply #44 on: June 26, 2014, 09:32:00 AM »
Quote from: Dagranger
I hit the 1 year mark today and I do it very humbly. Quitting dip and staying quit is no small endeavor. On June 27th of 2013 I had had enoughÂ…and here I am 1 year later, still quitting one day at a time. Thought IÂ’d take this occasion to pass along a few of the thoughts that have helped me quit along the way. Most of the past year I spent putting my head down here at KTC, just posting roll and grinding; focusing on my quit only. Lately IÂ’m trying to pay it back a little, so consider this post a bit of catch up. I may have written some of these before but hope it reaches new people and helps with their quits. Unfortunately for some, I swear a lot and spell terribly.

1.One day quit is an accomplishment, so is two days, 10 days, 50 days, in fact every fucking day you are quit is an accomplishment because no doubt some other sorry sap has caved after being quit the same number of days you are quit now. DonÂ’t be afraid to pat yourself on the back every once in a while. Then start grinding again.

2.Three things you need to quitÂ…1. An absolute desire to stop dipping, if you arenÂ’t sure if you want to be quit, you wonÂ’t be quit for long. 2. An over-riding anger. Anger at the tobacco companies, anger that you are an addict, anger that quitting is so fucking hard, anger at being a lying shit to so many.  I donÂ’t know how many craves I staved off by being unrelentingly pissed off, but itÂ’s been the biggest tool in my toolbox of quit. 3. Your daily promise has to mean something. So many people post roll and cave that same day; that drives me fucking crazy. The roll has to be treated as sacred. If you are going to cave then cave, but donÂ’t do it after posting roll. Too many people rely on that roll post to get them through the day, for the weak willed to treat that post like garbage.

3.The sale of dip is illegal in most of Europe and AustraliaÂ….Still think dip is fairly safe? ThatÂ’s two continents who think differently.

4.I still canÂ’t get over the fact that a dip crave is essentially an order from my brain to put a weed in my mouthÂ…and for 26 years I obeyed that order, and now for 1 year I have stopped listening to my brain, but itÂ’s fucking hard. Explain that to someone who doesnÂ’t know anything about nicotine and theyÂ’ll think youÂ’re insane.

5.To all you ninja dippers, you cannot be ninja quitters. I hid my addiction from my wife, family, friends, and coworkers; but I shared my quit with all of them, even though most people I told didnÂ’t know what I was talking about. Because as ninjas go, I was a good one. Opening up essentially created an army of accountability to keep me quit. One thing ninjas hate is eyes on them.

6.Duck Fips (October 2013). I havenÂ’t met any of you, I could pass you by on the street without knowing who you are, but despite that I would be devastated to let you guys down if I caved. So is the power of KTC. Thanks for quitting with me.

7.I have no idea why people stop posting roll after 100 days. There is no doubt that my posts (my promises) have kept me quit on a lot of days since day 100. IÂ’m not saying that you canÂ’t make it without KTC, but to me itÂ’s like throwing the life vests off the boat before reaching the shore.
8.In a weird way having such a hard time quitting is helping to keep me quit. If the early stages of quitting were easier, I might have caved earlier because I would have no worries about going through the insanity of the first 100 days again. Embrace the suck!

9.I always think of quitting like trying to stand up in the water at the beach. The first 10 days are like being out there in a hurricane; it is going to take everything you got just to keep standing. After that, the waves calm down but they still keep hitting you. If you don't keep focused a wave can pull you under. Unfortunately for us addicts, we are always fighting waves; they just grow less in size. This is the bed we made for ourselves. But the second you get pissed off about the waves all you need to do is look around. You're at the fucking beach! Life is good.

10.If you have a dip dream, or more specifically one of those dreams where you realize you caved and donÂ’t know what to tell the KTC brothers. Rejoice! That is one of the greatest tools you will get. Now you know how shitty it will feel to cave.

11.The odds are against you as a quitter of dip. HereÂ’s a link Click here to studies done by British and Dutch researchers finding nicotine harder to quit than crystal meth and cocaine. Reinforces what I have believed since quitting, DIPPING IS FOR THE SOFT, QUITTING IS FOR THE HARD. No way can you be a quitter without being a stone cold, single minded, motherfucking assassin. Quitting is not for the feint hearted.

12.I am an ex-dipperÂ….I am not an ex-addict, I am as addicted now as I was 1 year ago. I will go to my fucking grave addicted to dip. But, if IÂ’m going to be addicted the rest of my life, I plan to be kicking my addiction in the dick every damn day.
Thanks for reading my ramble. 365 days quit.
Congrats my friend, well done and hope you celebrate and continue to stick around.

Offline Dagranger

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Re: Busted
« Reply #43 on: June 26, 2014, 07:31:00 AM »
I hit the 1 year mark today and I do it very humbly. Quitting dip and staying quit is no small endeavor. On June 27th of 2013 I had had enoughÂ…and here I am 1 year later, still quitting one day at a time. Thought IÂ’d take this occasion to pass along a few of the thoughts that have helped me quit along the way. Most of the past year I spent putting my head down here at KTC, just posting roll and grinding; focusing on my quit only. Lately IÂ’m trying to pay it back a little, so consider this post a bit of catch up. I may have written some of these before but hope it reaches new people and helps with their quits. Unfortunately for some, I swear a lot and spell terribly.

1.One day quit is an accomplishment, so is two days, 10 days, 50 days, in fact every fucking day you are quit is an accomplishment because no doubt some other sorry sap has caved after being quit the same number of days you are quit now. DonÂ’t be afraid to pat yourself on the back every once in a while. Then start grinding again.

2.Three things you need to quitÂ…1. An absolute desire to stop dipping, if you arenÂ’t sure if you want to be quit, you wonÂ’t be quit for long. 2. An over-riding anger. Anger at the tobacco companies, anger that you are an addict, anger that quitting is so fucking hard, anger at being a lying shit to so many. I donÂ’t know how many craves I staved off by being unrelentingly pissed off, but itÂ’s been the biggest tool in my toolbox of quit. 3. Your daily promise has to mean something. So many people post roll and cave that same day; that drives me fucking crazy. The roll has to be treated as sacred. If you are going to cave then cave, but donÂ’t do it after posting roll. Too many people rely on that roll post to get them through the day, for the weak willed to treat that post like garbage.

3.The sale of dip is illegal in most of Europe and AustraliaÂ….Still think dip is fairly safe? ThatÂ’s two continents who think differently.

4.I still canÂ’t get over the fact that a dip crave is essentially an order from my brain to put a weed in my mouthÂ…and for 26 years I obeyed that order, and now for 1 year I have stopped listening to my brain, but itÂ’s fucking hard. Explain that to someone who doesnÂ’t know anything about nicotine and theyÂ’ll think youÂ’re insane.

5.To all you ninja dippers, you cannot be ninja quitters. I hid my addiction from my wife, family, friends, and coworkers; but I shared my quit with all of them, even though most people I told didnÂ’t know what I was talking about. Because as ninjas go, I was a good one. Opening up essentially created an army of accountability to keep me quit. One thing ninjas hate is eyes on them.

6.Duck Fips (October 2013). I havenÂ’t met any of you, I could pass you by on the street without knowing who you are, but despite that I would be devastated to let you guys down if I caved. So is the power of KTC. Thanks for quitting with me.

7.I have no idea why people stop posting roll after 100 days. There is no doubt that my posts (my promises) have kept me quit on a lot of days since day 100. IÂ’m not saying that you canÂ’t make it without KTC, but to me itÂ’s like throwing the life vests off the boat before reaching the shore.
8.In a weird way having such a hard time quitting is helping to keep me quit. If the early stages of quitting were easier, I might have caved earlier because I would have no worries about going through the insanity of the first 100 days again. Embrace the suck!

9.I always think of quitting like trying to stand up in the water at the beach. The first 10 days are like being out there in a hurricane; it is going to take everything you got just to keep standing. After that, the waves calm down but they still keep hitting you. If you don't keep focused a wave can pull you under. Unfortunately for us addicts, we are always fighting waves; they just grow less in size. This is the bed we made for ourselves. But the second you get pissed off about the waves all you need to do is look around. You're at the fucking beach! Life is good.

10.If you have a dip dream, or more specifically one of those dreams where you realize you caved and donÂ’t know what to tell the KTC brothers. Rejoice! That is one of the greatest tools you will get. Now you know how shitty it will feel to cave.

11.The odds are against you as a quitter of dip. HereÂ’s a link Click here to studies done by British and Dutch researchers finding nicotine harder to quit than crystal meth and cocaine. Reinforces what I have believed since quitting, DIPPING IS FOR THE SOFT, QUITTING IS FOR THE HARD. No way can you be a quitter without being a stone cold, single minded, motherfucking assassin. Quitting is not for the feint hearted.

12.I am an ex-dipperÂ….I am not an ex-addict, I am as addicted now as I was 1 year ago. I will go to my fucking grave addicted to dip. But, if IÂ’m going to be addicted the rest of my life, I plan to be kicking my addiction in the dick every damn day.
Thanks for reading my ramble. 365 days quit.

Offline Done4Me

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Re: Busted
« Reply #42 on: June 26, 2014, 07:09:00 AM »
Quote from: Dagranger
Quote from: derk40
Quote from: gmann
Quote from: Done4Me
So looking at the calendar today which I try and do each day, I noticed your name. Generally being a newbie I only post in vets intros where I recognize their name for one reason or another. Biggest reason is vets who supports newbies and you are one of those. This site wouldn't be shit without the support of guys like you. Hope to hell I keep posting daily after my HOF/2nd floor/year. But let's not get ahead of ourselves.

Today's calendar has you at a year. Your post in your home group has you at 362. Not sure which is right but guessing you lost a day or 3 along the way. Either way, today, 3 days from now, congrats on a year. That's a big friggin deal and you should be proud. Most important though, thanks for supporting the new guys. Today's events underscore how important it is to focus on the new groups.
Everyone deserves some intro love when they hit the single digit. Congrats on one year, man.
Congrats on 1 year Dagranger! Quit with you all day long.
Haa thanks guys....I'm actually a day away, so I'll take the bow tomorrow. But glad you guys noticed. This year minus one day has been a big one. I hate to geek out and use a Lord of the Rings reference but One does not simply quit dipping for a year and have that year be uneventful. So glad I'm quit
Jumped the gun a day back. Official 1 year for DG, congrats.

Offline Dagranger

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Re: Busted
« Reply #41 on: June 25, 2014, 10:50:00 AM »
Quote from: derk40
Quote from: gmann
Quote from: Done4Me
So looking at the calendar today which I try and do each day, I noticed your name. Generally being a newbie I only post in vets intros where I recognize their name for one reason or another. Biggest reason is vets who supports newbies and you are one of those. This site wouldn't be shit without the support of guys like you. Hope to hell I keep posting daily after my HOF/2nd floor/year. But let's not get ahead of ourselves.

Today's calendar has you at a year. Your post in your home group has you at 362. Not sure which is right but guessing you lost a day or 3 along the way. Either way, today, 3 days from now, congrats on a year. That's a big friggin deal and you should be proud. Most important though, thanks for supporting the new guys. Today's events underscore how important it is to focus on the new groups.
Everyone deserves some intro love when they hit the single digit. Congrats on one year, man.
Congrats on 1 year Dagranger! Quit with you all day long.
Haa thanks guys....I'm actually a day away, so I'll take the bow tomorrow. But glad you guys noticed. This year minus one day has been a big one. I hate to geek out and use a Lord of the Rings reference but One does not simply quit dipping for a year and have that year be uneventful. So glad I'm quit

Offline Derk40

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Re: Busted
« Reply #40 on: June 25, 2014, 10:30:00 AM »
Quote from: gmann
Quote from: Done4Me
So looking at the calendar today which I try and do each day, I noticed your name. Generally being a newbie I only post in vets intros where I recognize their name for one reason or another. Biggest reason is vets who supports newbies and you are one of those. This site wouldn't be shit without the support of guys like you. Hope to hell I keep posting daily after my HOF/2nd floor/year. But let's not get ahead of ourselves.

Today's calendar has you at a year. Your post in your home group has you at 362. Not sure which is right but guessing you lost a day or 3 along the way. Either way, today, 3 days from now, congrats on a year. That's a big friggin deal and you should be proud. Most important though, thanks for supporting the new guys. Today's events underscore how important it is to focus on the new groups.
Everyone deserves some intro love when they hit the single digit. Congrats on one year, man.
Congrats on 1 year Dagranger! Quit with you all day long.
Quit date: 6/23/2013
HOF Date: 9/30/2013

HOF Speech

Offline G

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Re: Busted
« Reply #39 on: June 25, 2014, 10:28:00 AM »
Quote from: Done4Me
So looking at the calendar today which I try and do each day, I noticed your name. Generally being a newbie I only post in vets intros where I recognize their name for one reason or another. Biggest reason is vets who supports newbies and you are one of those. This site wouldn't be shit without the support of guys like you. Hope to hell I keep posting daily after my HOF/2nd floor/year. But let's not get ahead of ourselves.

Today's calendar has you at a year. Your post in your home group has you at 362. Not sure which is right but guessing you lost a day or 3 along the way. Either way, today, 3 days from now, congrats on a year. That's a big friggin deal and you should be proud. Most important though, thanks for supporting the new guys. Today's events underscore how important it is to focus on the new groups.
Everyone deserves some intro love when they hit the single digit. Congrats on one year, man.

Offline Done4Me

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Re: Busted
« Reply #38 on: June 24, 2014, 10:05:00 PM »
So looking at the calendar today which I try and do each day, I noticed your name. Generally being a newbie I only post in vets intros where I recognize their name for one reason or another. Biggest reason is vets who supports newbies and you are one of those. This site wouldn't be shit without the support of guys like you. Hope to hell I keep posting daily after my HOF/2nd floor/year. But let's not get ahead of ourselves.

Today's calendar has you at a year. Your post in your home group has you at 362. Not sure which is right but guessing you lost a day or 3 along the way. Either way, today, 3 days from now, congrats on a year. That's a big friggin deal and you should be proud. Most important though, thanks for supporting the new guys. Today's events underscore how important it is to focus on the new groups.

Offline Pinched

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Re: Busted
« Reply #37 on: April 07, 2014, 11:40:00 PM »
Quote from: Dagranger
I have been away on business for 2 weeks but got home this Sunday morning, just in time to coach my son's first little league practice of the year. As soon as I got out on the field my jaw started getting all worked up, and I realized I was jonesing for a dip like I haven't been in well over 100 days. Despite having 285 days of quit under my belt I had yet to deal with being on a baseball field yet. I guess being away from home then rushing to the field left me unprepared for what hit me. In fighting off the urge it brought me back to ninth grade baseball where I was given a tin of skoal by an older kid...a tradition I passed along myself a couple of years later to other unsuspecting kids. Why? Because baseball and dipping go together. For years that's what I believed. From playing baseball in high school, to softball leagues later and ultimately to coaching my kids, if I was on a baseball field I had a dip in my mouth, because that's what baseball was about.

What a crock of horseshit that is!

Of all the things dip did for me, playing baseball better was not one of them. In fact I can remember plenty of times where I had trouble focusing on the game because i was worrying too much of the spit building up in my mouth. Baseball and dipping are not like peanut butter and jelly, they are more like peanut butter and dip. Unlike my Dad, here's one Dad who is going to crack down on his kids if they start associating the game of baseball with dipping. It's a disgrace that America's past time has been tied so tightly to an addictive drug.
All I can say is ditto brother. Had a very similar scenario this year. Walking across that clay, smelling the leather glove, it all just seemed to smell different and better without the pungent Copenhagen smell.

Never Again For Any Reason

Quit on brother Duck!
"If you want to quit then stop talking and just QUIT. If you want to kill yourself a bullet is cheaper and faster than a tin, plus it eliminates my hearing you whine and cry like a bitch."

Best thing I have read on KTC...Submitted by tgafish on 7/3/14

Former Skoal Straight and Cope Longcut user that started at the age of 12. QUIT on 7/15/13

Offline Bean

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Re: Busted
« Reply #36 on: April 07, 2014, 05:38:00 PM »
Yep, same story here...started dipping as a Freshman in high school playing varsity baseball. I got pulled up to varsity because I was really good...at carrying the equipment bag and keeping cans of snuff for the players AND COACHES?!!

I thought it made me cool. That lasted for the following 20+ years before I stumbled on to this site. I can't change the past. And I don't know the future. But I know sure as shit that I will not dip today. And that's all that matters.

Glad you're here, Granger!!! You've found the right place.

Offline gopherfan09

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Re: Busted
« Reply #35 on: April 07, 2014, 04:48:00 PM »
So true. This couldn't me more spot on. I started when I was coaching hockey with some d 1 hockey players. It is so damn unfortunate it is such a big part of sports. I look back on high school hockey and how our coaches has lips packed full of that shit... Some fucking example they set for the kids they were coaching.