Interesting debate fella's but I would have to side with Grizz on this topic as well. FK, there is a flaw in your theory of personal responsibility in regards to tobacco use in my humble opinion and I am a big proponent of personal choices and responsibility for your actions when it comes to adults. Especially adults that have been provided the wisdom of education, experience and life. But at 12 -13 years old when I was first given "Hawken" chewing tobacco from a baseball coach I don't think I was making well informed and proper life choices. This started my 27 year addiction to nicotine. My parents being smokers didn't help either since it was easy to swipe a cig when a craving hit. On a side note, "Hawken" has a nice sweet taste that kids really enjoy. I'm sure that was just by luck that they made it taste that way. This is the crux of Grizz's contention I think and it is that tobacco companies have used deceit and deception to market and hook people to a substance that is known to cause at minimum, serious health consequence and it kills more people every year then anything else. Its the hidden addictive quality that makes tobacco an outlier in my opinion when compared to alcohol or sugar or whatever other item you would like to compare. I get that using things in moderation generally is permissible to having a healthy life for the most part but for a huge segment of the population of people who use nicotine it becomes destructive. I'll also put my 2 cents in about your question on the declining tobacco use in this country. Well, that would be because we (USA) have started to educate and inform people and kids at a younger age about the harmful effects of the shit which has helped to cut into those numbers. My question is, why does a company get the right to make a substance that literally kills more people on the planet then anything else and has no useful or viable use to society or people? It literally has no useful purpose at all except to line the pockets of makers.
That is a great point. You were a child when given Hawken by your baseball coach, so obviously you could not make an informed decision.
I guess I should modify my stance by talking about those who begin dipping as adults, like me. I started at 25- basically on a whim, out of boredom, looking to just "try something" with no past experience in smoking or alcohol abuse. I stuck strictly to pouches so I could hide it easily.
My definition of adult would probably be seniors in high school to college age. A person at this age is generally aware that tobacco is a no-no. So if a man takes his first dip when he's on his college's baseball team, I don't blame peer pressure, I don't blame big tobacco marketing (although these are certainly factor's in the decision-making process). Ultimately, blame must fall on the dumb ass college student who - against all better judgment and evidence to the contrary - thought he could escape the hooks.
The same philosophy applies to me. As an adult dipper with no cultural reinforcements (clearly this is an exaggeration, but it truly feels like NO ONE dips in NYC. I can't understand how gas stations are not taking a loss by carrying dip), I really cannot blame anyone but myself for my poor judgment.
As far as a company's right to make a substance that is so harmful, I still think it's fair game. We start to slide down a slippery slope when we go down that road, banning substances and whatnot. Because there are plenty of people who can use tobacco products socially or just one in a while, and not get hooked. They should not be prohibited from being able to enjoy a buzz every once in a while just because we've become addicts. That is OUR problem to deal with.
And just to play devil's advocate (because I do agree with you that it has no useful purpose at all)- Stephen King has attributed all of his best writing to nicotine. It's actually very fascinating if you read some of his interviews. He says that smoking got his brain firing in more creative ways where he could just bang out page after page no problem.
