Quit This Morning On Way Into Work

[Souliman]

What is caving?

[rgross298]

Question, should a quit plan include caving as the last possible step of the plan when all else has failed?

Abso-fucking-lootly-not

Caving is not part of a quit; it's the failure of the plan, not part of it!!

Step #7 isn't part of a plan for success. You should ditch it, regardless if it serves as an incentive for you. In a roadmap for quitting, why include a step that shows caving, even if the consequences are "impossible"?

I'd never sign anything that gives my wife permission to bail; that makes this look like you're ultimately quitting to appease or retain your wife, or quitting to be a model for your son. I think those are admirable benefits to quitting, but ultimately YOU have to be the reason you are quitting. You know why? Because YOU have ninja-dipped like the rest of us and you know how to hide the shit. You can hide the shit from your wife , your son, from the clowns on this website (US), but you CAN'T HIDE THAT SHIT FROM YOURSELF.

You might as well have step 7 say "put a gun to my head and pull the trigger, then I'll dip". Lame.

[MikeA]

Question, should a quit plan include caving as the last possible step of the plan when all else has failed?

Abso-fucking-lootly-not

Caving is not part of a quit; it's the failure of the plan, not part of it!!

FYI, question posted in general discussion. Your step 7 needs to be replace with steps through about 1,000,000 before a cave is even thought of and even step 1,000,001 should not be to cave. Like said above, a cave is the failure of the plan not a part of it.

[DeanTheCoot]

The fact that you even listed step 7 is a bad sign.  The nic bitch and the addict in you will ultimately lead you to this step if it is there as an option.
To me dipping again is never an option no matter what.  For you though you leave it as an option.....why?

Ya, you have a quit plan that includes a step for ultimately failing. Just seems odd to me.

Obviously you're all entitled to your opinions. For me, that step is crucial because there is just no way on this earth you could physically get me to do that. For you it may leave an opening. For me it shuts the door.

For what it's worth, I'm not reading step 7 so literally. I see the value in it.

I meant it when I said your plan was awesome. I just commented on the conspicuous role your wife has in it. That - in itself - is not bad. One's family is a keystone to a successful quit.

However, I know personally that a girlfriend/wife can drive a husband into a "quit" - I'd been there several times, and I know I'm not alone here. My desire to quit to be good to my wife was earnest. I also told myself that I was quitting for me. But in short order, all it did was turn me into a worthless, lying sack of ninja-dipping shit.

Only you know what your real situation is, and I'm not saying it's one way or the other. And you don't have to convince me in either case. I'm just rapping here, hopefully for everyone's benefit.

[Lochi21]

The fact that you even listed step 7 is a bad sign.  The nic bitch and the addict in you will ultimately lead you to this step if it is there as an option.
To me dipping again is never an option no matter what.  For you though you leave it as an option.....why?

I could be wrong, but Lochi came up with his plan after I was really pushing the need for a plan....I hate to say it, but I think it might have been influenced by MY plan:

index.php?showtopic=3158

Maybe it's just me, but I do see a difference between your statement Lochi and mine. But, you and I had spoke during your development of your plan and I think it looks pretty damn good...and you are getting some damn fine support from bubblehead, Dean and Mike, too.

You've got my number...yell if you need anything.

I have definitely read and used CoachDoc's quit plan as a template for my own. Of all the quit plans I have read on here, it was the one that stuck out to me the most and forced me to do some thinking about my own quit plan and what I want it to look like.

[Lochi21]

The fact that you even listed step 7 is a bad sign.  The nic bitch and the addict in you will ultimately lead you to this step if it is there as an option.
To me dipping again is never an option no matter what.  For you though you leave it as an option.....why?

Ya, you have a quit plan that includes a step for ultimately failing. Just seems odd to me.

Obviously you're all entitled to your opinions. For me, that step is crucial because there is just no way on this earth you could physically get me to do that. For you it may leave an opening. For me it shuts the door.

[Lochi21]

Lochi let me edit step number 3 for you a little bit.

3. Call and talk to everyone of the many quit brothers and sisters I have programmed into my phone. I have to speak to at least everyone person to get permission from each of to cave. If nobody answers, leave a message. If nobody responds within a half hour, start over at the top of the list unitl I talk to every one of them. Proceed to step 4. Here are the numbers programmed in so far:
LEERON (Ron)
CASEYG (Casey)
AMGDENNEY (Michelle)
30YRADDICT (Dale)
KLARK (Kevin)
GATOR(Greg)
TARPON (Randy)
EVILMM (Garrett)
BIGBAMADAN(Daniel)

That is how I have my plan laid out. I have to contact everyone and specifically get permission from all to cave. I have 40 numbers, if 39 say yes and one says no, then I can not cave.

If the craves get too bad here's a trick an old timer taught me. Sit naked on desk. Open desk drawer, inserted testicles in drawer. Slam drawer closed on testicles.'shock' No more craves. Works everytime.

Thank you for your suggestion. I have seen other quit plans with the "call every number concept" you are suggesting but it really just doesn't seem feasible to me. I know someone on this list will answer my call within the 1/2 hour and I know they will set me straight.

In all honesty, with the last couple of steps of my plan "burning the boat" for me psychologically, I don't ever see myself getting past step 2. I mean seriously man, what crave is stronger than my love for my wife, son and family? Handing that quit plan to my wife and having her sign it with me was transformational. The tears shed between the two of us and the honesty it forced out of me will never be forgot. I did that for ME as much as I did it for us.

[jjprice]

The fact that you even listed step 7 is a bad sign. The nic bitch and the addict in you will ultimately lead you to this step if it is there as an option.
To me dipping again is never an option no matter what. For you though you leave it as an option.....why?

Ya, you have a quit plan that includes a step for ultimately failing. Just seems odd to me.

[CoachDoc]

The fact that you even listed step 7 is a bad sign. The nic bitch and the addict in you will ultimately lead you to this step if it is there as an option.
To me dipping again is never an option no matter what. For you though you leave it as an option.....why?

I could be wrong, but Lochi came up with his plan after I was really pushing the need for a plan....I hate to say it, but I think it might have been influenced by MY plan:

index.php?showtopic=3158

Maybe it's just me, but I do see a difference between your statement Lochi and mine. But, you and I had spoke during your development of your plan and I think it looks pretty damn good...and you are getting some damn fine support from bubblehead, Dean and Mike, too.

You've got my number...yell if you need anything.

[MikeA]

The fact that you even listed step 7 is a bad sign. The nic bitch and the addict in you will ultimately lead you to this step if it is there as an option.
To me dipping again is never an option no matter what. For you though you leave it as an option.....why?

[Lochi21]

Hm....wish I'd been around more regularly when you returned. Had no idea. I wasted a fair amount of time reaching out to you, in the quit-nicotine *and* quit-alcohol context. You left my PMs unanswered. That pisses me off, simply because it's rude.

On the other hand, I'm certainly in no place to judge what a man does. I haven't worn your shoes. I do know, though, that you're here again, and that means you have no excuse whatsoever to fade away. I don't give up on someone who returns to KTC after failing once. (Fail twice, though, and you've proven beyond a doubt that you cannot be trusted.) The idea being that someone who comes back learns what NOT to do.

Your quit plan is pretty awesome. A model plan, in fact. But to be honest with you, I'm a little worried about the repeated references to your wife. Not that she shouldn't be involved or that her support isn't critical. Rather, whenever I see something like that, I worry that the main pressure to quit came from a wife or girlfriend or some influence - animate or inanimate - OTHER THAN YOURSELF.

Because I'll tell you, brother: If it isn't for you, you're going to fail. Guaranteed. If you search yourself and find it ISN'T truly for yourself, MAKE it for yourself.

P.S. You sober? PM me if you like.

Sorry for being a douche and not returning your messages back then.

You're certainly entitled to your opinion with regards to my quit plan. It sounds like you have or would write yours differently. The point is to encourage others to write one that holds them accountable long-term. I understand your concern but mine does that for me.

My alcohol issues revolved around abuse (binge drinking) not addiction. I have stayed away from ALL hard liquor and allow myself a beer or two a week. I have not had any issues in over a year. Thanks for checking on me.

[bubblehed668]

Lochi let me edit step number 3 for you a little bit.

3. Call and talk to everyone of the many quit brothers and sisters I have programmed into my phone. I have to speak to at least everyone person to get permission from each of to cave. If nobody answers, leave a message. If nobody responds within a half hour, start over at the top of the list unitl I talk to every one of them. Proceed to step 4. Here are the numbers programmed in so far:
LEERON (Ron)
CASEYG (Casey)
AMGDENNEY (Michelle)
30YRADDICT (Dale)
KLARK (Kevin)
GATOR(Greg)
TARPON (Randy)
EVILMM (Garrett)
BIGBAMADAN(Daniel)

That is how I have my plan laid out. I have to contact everyone and specifically get permission from all to cave. I have 40 numbers, if 39 say yes and one says no, then I can not cave.

If the craves get too bad here's a trick an old timer taught me. Sit naked on desk. Open desk drawer, inserted testicles in drawer. Slam drawer closed on testicles.'shock' No more craves. Works everytime.

[DeanTheCoot]

Hm....wish I'd been around more regularly when you returned. Had no idea. I wasted a fair amount of time reaching out to you, in the quit-nicotine *and* quit-alcohol context. You left my PMs unanswered. That pisses me off, simply because it's rude.

On the other hand, I'm certainly in no place to judge what a man does. I haven't worn your shoes. I do know, though, that you're here again, and that means you have no excuse whatsoever to fade away. I don't give up on someone who returns to KTC after failing once. (Fail twice, though, and you've proven beyond a doubt that you cannot be trusted.) The idea being that someone who comes back learns what NOT to do.

Your quit plan is pretty awesome. A model plan, in fact. But to be honest with you, I'm a little worried about the repeated references to your wife. Not that she shouldn't be involved or that her support isn't critical. Rather, whenever I see something like that, I worry that the main pressure to quit came from a wife or girlfriend or some influence - animate or inanimate - OTHER THAN YOURSELF.

Because I'll tell you, brother: If it isn't for you, you're going to fail. Guaranteed. If you search yourself and find it ISN'T truly for yourself, MAKE it for yourself.

P.S. You sober? PM me if you like.

[Lochi21]

As I approach the HOF (again) I have decided I do not want to post a HOF speech. What I want to do is make my introduction to everyone on KTC as Lochi21 v.2.0. If it was possible to change your name here, I would request it in a heartbeat. Simply put, Lochi21 is not the same person who was here before. Not by a long-shot!

I know there are many on KTC who shudder at my existence here. I can't say I blame you because failed attempts are not what KTC is about and so far that is the only thing I have proven I can do.

Thankfully, I have some quit brothers and sisters who have supported and challenged me this time. In doing so, I've tried my best to understand what makes me tick and what's necessary to make this my FINAL quit.

To that end, I believe I have been successful. It required creating a QUIT PLAN utilizing the philosophy "if you want to take the island then you need to burn the friggin' boats". Simply put, there can be no chance for retreat. Failure is simply not possible. Here is my RETREAD QUIT PLAN.

My Quit Plan (i.e. IÂ’m thinking seriously about caving so I Â…)

1. Stop whatever IÂ’m doing and take a moment to think about all the other quit brothers/sisters who are struggling to stay quit with me. Remember what it means to post roll and honor my word. Ask myself if those who have succeeded on KTC are that much stronger than me? Also think about all the people who have given me crap for coming back to KTC. Ask myself if I want them to feel superior to me again?

If that doesnÂ’t work:

2. Log on to KTC and read for a while. Go to the newest quit month and look at the brave men/women posting day 1, 3, 9, etc. and admire their courage. Read the Jenny  Tom Kern story again. Go into the chat room and explain that I am thinking about caving. Give them some crap about being depressed or that IÂ’m a better man to my family with chew in my life.

If that doesnÂ’t work:

3. Call and talk to one of the many quit brothers I have programmed into my phone. I have to speak to at least one person. If nobody answers, leave a message. If nobody responds within a half hour. Proceed to step 4. Here are the numbers programmed in so far:
LEERON (Ron)
CASEYG (Casey)
AMGDENNEY (Michelle)
30YRADDICT (Dale)
KLARK (Kevin)
GATOR(Greg)
TARPON (Randy)
EVILMM (Garrett)
BIGBAMADAN(Daniel)

If that doesnÂ’t work:

4. Have my wife give me the stash of fake dip she has hidden away for emergencies. I have sworn off the fake dip because I hid that usage too and I need 100% transparency in my quit. But, I realize it has a place and itÂ’s at step #4 of my quit plan.

If that doesnÂ’t work:

5. Take out the signed copy of this quit plan and discuss with my wife why IÂ’m choosing chewing tobacco over my marriage and family.

If that doesnÂ’t work:

6. Both my wife and I need to re-sign the quit plan and I have to immediately proceed to step #7.

7. Toss in the towel and return to the misery of dipping again. But as a last resort, in the presence of my wife, I have to sit down with my 8 year old son and tell him that Dad is a weak man who loves chewing tobacco more than he loves his family. They both need to accompany me to the gas station and watch me buy the tin and put a dip in my mouth. And lastly, I have to tell him how I want him to chew with me one day.

P.S. My wife has agreed to this plan and has a signed copy in her possession. Because IÂ’m an addict and have failed multiple times at quitting, she has permission to leave me if I donÂ’t follow EVERY step including step #7.

P.P.S. Because IÂ’m an addict and have lied to my brothers/sisters on KTC before, I would be happy to have you confirm this quit plan by calling and talking to my wife.

Lochi21 v.2.0
Day 88

[DeanTheCoot]

...and I escaped to the basement so I could eat my seeds in private.

I know you didn't intend for this to be funny, but I laughed out loud.

You have the makings to be a bad-ass quitter, pal.