Not too late

[jcook]

You will get many different opinions about the fake stuff from all the guys here. So here is my 2 cents, and it's just from my experience. I didn't use anything for the first 3 weeks except seeds. One day the cravings were really bad so I decided to try some Smokey Mtn. Same experience as you, all the old emotions, the old routine. Got a big wad of the fake and ......... nothing. I decided I would use the rest of the can, I just didn't really want to waste the money. By the time I used the last of that can, I just really didn't care about using it at all. It did nothing for me. Now here is the critical part (at least in my little mind): I think that was very helpful for my quit. I needed that lack of stimulation, that lack of payoff from the oral fixation aspect of it. I needed to put that in my mouth and not get anything from it. For me, it was very helpful. I moved past it and haven't used it since. I'm still eating enough seeds to drown an elephant though. Here is my last thought: my advice would be to do WHATEVER you had to do not to use. If the fake stuff helps you, use it. Seeds? Go to it. My perspective was that my quit was so important to my life that I would do ANYTHING I had to do not to use. (Well virtually anything, there are some legal and ethical limits, haha)

Hang in there brother. I can tell you this: I'm still a new guy, I'm only on day 90 today, but I could have never imagined that it would be this good. This quit is the best thing I could have done for my life, my family, everything. Proud to be quit with ya!

[ninereasons]

I don't know how many more days I'm going to need to post something here just to take the edge off. I don't like being the yakkety one in the room, but this is therapy. In the real world people think that I'm a great listener (well - not counting my family), when the fact is, I'm just thick and it takes me a long time to think of anything to say.


Today I had a strange experience. I woke up with a sharp craving for something at the tobacco counter of the convenience store. I drove to a Plaid Pantry near my house in a familiar sort of fog. My brain was in cave-in mode: on automatic, trying not to think. "Get there, get what you came for, get out." I put down my money and pointed to a can, a round tin which I walked out with and peeled on the way to the car. I had the vague sense of compulsively doing something horribly wrong, because every motion was in an old pattern, every thought was directed down a well-trodden path, and even the smells were enticingly the same.

So, I don't know what to think about Smokey Mountain. Is this a quitter's weapon (it redirected a craving very effectively - I had no interest in the real tobacco behind that counter)? Or is this a gateway product?

I sucked on that stuff waiting for the relief to come - not consciously, but impulsively - and of course, it never did, which to my conscious mind was truly satisfying. But I worry. I walked into that store, not tied to a mast. I went through all the motions of listening to the siren-song, and feel like I escaped with my freedom and dignity only because I planned a way to fool myself - and it just accidentally worked. What do you think?

Ninereasons - 11 days of outsmarting myself

[ninereasons]

I'm also from Oregon. I live in Walterville.

I had to look that up. I've lived in Oregon for most of my life now, but in my heart I'm still a poorly integrated Wyoming immigrant. It's beautiful country where you live. One of my daughters went to her first Ducks basketball game last night - they lost - and drove back in the snow.

[ninereasons]

A few people I've made promises to have disappeared.  Did they find another group? Did they burn out? Did they get offended? Was it something I said?

Maybe one of them is reading this.  If they've caved, my first impulse is to encourage them to try again.  On the other hand, caving and trying again is the pattern of USING.  That's what dippers do. 

Every three to six months or so, your body says "enough!" - you have no energy, you feel like you're dying, maybe the inside of your cheek is puckered up and sores have started to appear; the very thought of a dip makes you throw up in your mouth.  So you "quit".  But somewhere deep down, you formed the plan to start up again if the circumstances are right, if you keep the use down to once a month which is how often you have a glass of wine, which becomes Saturday afternoons when you're with friends for a game, which becomes once a day at most, and so on for three months or so until your body says "enough!"

So, if you're reading this: friend, I miss you.  I'm sorry you weren't ready.  Please don't come back until you are.

Ninereasons - day 10

Glad you found this site Ninereasons. I never made it past a few days quitting by myself. I chewed for 30 years. The accountability and one day at a time did it for me. I have been quit now for 641 days. I'm also from Oregon. I live in Walterville. Your group is pretty new and you will see a lot of people cave. Help the ones you can and forget the rest.

We're all different, but you get a bunch of us in the same room and it all starts to make a lot of sense what's been going on, why I kept screwing up, and why this plan is going to work.

I'm glad you're here, SAA.

[SAA]

A few people I've made promises to have disappeared.  Did they find another group? Did they burn out? Did they get offended? Was it something I said?

Maybe one of them is reading this.  If they've caved, my first impulse is to encourage them to try again.  On the other hand, caving and trying again is the pattern of USING.  That's what dippers do. 

Every three to six months or so, your body says "enough!" - you have no energy, you feel like you're dying, maybe the inside of your cheek is puckered up and sores have started to appear; the very thought of a dip makes you throw up in your mouth.  So you "quit".  But somewhere deep down, you formed the plan to start up again if the circumstances are right, if you keep the use down to once a month which is how often you have a glass of wine, which becomes Saturday afternoons when you're with friends for a game, which becomes once a day at most, and so on for three months or so until your body says "enough!"

So, if you're reading this: friend, I miss you.  I'm sorry you weren't ready.  Please don't come back until you are.

Ninereasons - day 10

Glad you found this site Ninereasons. I never made it past a few days quitting by myself. I chewed for 30 years. The accountability and one day at a time did it for me. I have been quit now for 641 days. I'm also from Oregon. I live in Walterville. Your group is pretty new and you will see a lot of people cave. Help the ones you can and forget the rest.

[ninereasons]

A few people I've made promises to have disappeared. Did they find another group? Did they burn out? Did they get offended? Was it something I said?

Maybe one of them is reading this. If they've caved, my first impulse is to encourage them to try again. On the other hand, caving and trying again is the pattern of USING. That's what dippers do.

Every three to six months or so, your body says "enough!" - you have no energy, you feel like you're dying, maybe the inside of your cheek is puckered up and sores have started to appear; the very thought of a dip makes you throw up in your mouth. So you "quit". But somewhere deep down, you formed the plan to start up again if the circumstances are right, if you keep the use down to once a month which is how often you have a glass of wine, which becomes Saturday afternoons when you're with friends for a game, which becomes once a day at most, and so on for three months or so until your body says "enough!"

So, if you're reading this: friend, I miss you. I'm sorry you weren't ready. Please don't come back until you are.

Ninereasons - day 10

[ninereasons]

proud to be quit with you, my brother. keep up the good work.

Thank you sts, and you too sM.

I'm feeling the regret strongly now, that I've never tried support before. I can see the big difference it makes to accept encouragement and to pay it forward - who knows how different my life could have been if I'd done this earlier?

But it's Today. And as long as that's true, it is not too late.

Ninereasons - Day 9

[Skoal Monster]

Quitting doesn't make it hard for you to stay awake or wake you up in sweat, or give you constipation or wreck your concentration. It's not quitting that's sitting on your brow like a helmet of ache too small for your head. Tobacco is the cause. Quitting is the cure.

Don't turn that around, knucklehead.

Ninereasons - Day 8 AM

--

I chewed so much gum today that I'm surprised I didn't pull a filling. But I'm heading to bed nicotine free because I thought all day about the promises I made right in front of everybody. Accountability, huh? ... huh! It's not just hype - this stuff works. And it leaves my breath minty fresh.


Ninereasons - Day 8 PM

Tobacco is the cause. Quitting is the cure.

Startin to like this guy 'winker'

[ninereasons]

Quitting doesn't make it hard for you to stay awake or wake you up in sweat, or give you constipation or wreck your concentration. It's not quitting that's sitting on your brow like a helmet of ache too small for your head. Tobacco is the cause. Quitting is the cure.

Don't turn that around, knucklehead.

Ninereasons - Day 8 AM

--

I chewed so much gum today that I'm surprised I didn't pull a filling. But I'm heading to bed nicotine free because I thought all day about the promises I made right in front of everybody. Accountability, huh? ... huh! It's not just hype - this stuff works. And it leaves my breath minty fresh.


Ninereasons - Day 8 PM

[sts]

proud to be quit with you, my brother. keep up the good work.

[ninereasons]

Your anticipation of losing your motivation to stay quit is a prelude to your own cave. Your actually teeing up the ball. Do you see it?  In short " I call bullshit"

sM

Well boss, you get to warn me that I'm making excuses when I'm not aware of it - I came here to hear all that. But the fact of the matter is that even if I momentarily lose motivation on my own - it's happened before - there is a way to prepare even against that by borrowing the resolve of others - which is what I'm doing right now, while I think about what you've said.

I invite you to remind me that it's "bullshit" if I cave. But that's not going to happen today. Thanks for caring.

---

I came across these link-backs on Facebook, and they say it pretty well.
http://www.killthecan.org/facts/funk01.asp
http://www.killthecan.org/facts/funk02.asp

I can't say I'm not capable of dragging myself through "the funk" by sheer willpower, but I know that in the past I haven't. I'm not giving in. Exactly the opposite: a plan of attack is the opposite of surrender, kapitein.

I hear ya nine , for me the funk is like getting thrown back into the early days of my quit, yes it does suck the life out of you and you lack motivation to do anything, but I never experienced a moment during any funk that made me " stop caring"

I still cared and I was never in danger of caving it just sucked , like depression and anger and anxiety all in a neat little package. But I still challenge your mindset on your quit .I don't think your making excuses, just some of your wording depicts a lack of commitment. Perhaps I'm wrong , feel free to tell me to get bent, Ultimately what is important is that you stay quit. Your way or mine doesn't matter as long as you succeed.

This is the kind of thoughts that worry me

" I like it even less to admit that I'm quitting."

why?
You need to sing that story from the rooftops.

sM

I'm not going to tell you you're wrong, SM. This is the first time in 34 years that I've ever succeeded at quitting for the rest of a long and nicotine free life - and I'm only 7 days into it, so I won't argue against the idea that something needs to change.

Why don't I like to admit that I'm quitting? Because it involves saying that I started in the first place. I became what I never wanted to be, by my own sad, stupid choice. I have to say that I'm a nicotine addict. That's done. I have to say "I quit" every day from now on. That's done too. But I'm sad about the second because I'm angry about the first.

I'm not saying there's no joy in that, or excitement that this time it seems to be working - I know how to test the guy-wires, and I can tell already that this is a very strong quit, maybe the very first real one. But the most reliable test I have is to prove that this is anchored in reason, in knowledge and experience, in serious and sober planning. In other words, I test to make sure it isn't anchored in emotions (positive, negative or absent): because if it is, it just won't be stable enough to carry me through.

If somewhere in there you still spot the self-defeating attitudes that you think you see, listen: you're standing on the shore that I'm wading toward. You have my attention.

[Skoal Monster]

Your anticipation of losing your motivation to stay quit is a prelude to your own cave. Your actually teeing up the ball. Do you see it?  In short " I call bullshit"

sM

Well boss, you get to warn me that I'm making excuses when I'm not aware of it - I came here to hear all that. But the fact of the matter is that even if I momentarily lose motivation on my own - it's happened before - there is a way to prepare even against that by borrowing the resolve of others - which is what I'm doing right now, while I think about what you've said.

I invite you to remind me that it's "bullshit" if I cave. But that's not going to happen today. Thanks for caring.

---

I came across these link-backs on Facebook, and they say it pretty well.
http://www.killthecan.org/facts/funk01.asp
http://www.killthecan.org/facts/funk02.asp

I can't say I'm not capable of dragging myself through "the funk" by sheer willpower, but I know that in the past I haven't. I'm not giving in. Exactly the opposite: a plan of attack is the opposite of surrender, kapitein.

I hear ya nine , for me the funk is like getting thrown back into the early days of my quit, yes it does suck the life out of you and you lack motivation to do anything, but I never experienced a moment during any funk that made me " stop caring"

I still cared and I was never in danger of caving it just sucked , like depression and anger and anxiety all in a neat little package. But I still challenge your mindset on your quit .I don't think your making excuses, just some of your wording depicts a lack of commitment. Perhaps I'm wrong , feel free to tell me to get bent, Ultimately what is important is that you stay quit. Your way or mine doesn't matter as long as you succeed.

This is the kind of thoughts that worry me

" I like it even less to admit that I'm quitting."

why?
You need to sing that story from the rooftops.

sM

[ninereasons]

Your anticipation of losing your motivation to stay quit is a prelude to your own cave. Your actually teeing up the ball. Do you see it?  In short " I call bullshit"

sM

Well boss, you get to warn me that I'm making excuses when I'm not aware of it - I came here to hear all that. But the fact of the matter is that even if I momentarily lose motivation on my own - it's happened before - there is a way to prepare even against that by borrowing the resolve of others - which is what I'm doing right now, while I think about what you've said.

I invite you to remind me that it's "bullshit" if I cave. But that's not going to happen today. Thanks for caring - I really mean that.

---

I came across these link-backs on Facebook, and they say it pretty well.
http://www.killthecan.org/facts/funk01.asp
http://www.killthecan.org/facts/funk02.asp

I can't say I'm not capable of dragging myself through "the funk" by sheer willpower, but I know that in the past I haven't. I'm not giving in. Exactly the opposite: a plan of attack is the opposite of surrender, kapitein.

[Skoal Monster]

It's not a good idea to try to handle a craving by looking for a store that sells Smokey Mountain.

"Hi, I'm looking for a tobacco substitute called Smokey Mountain - do you know what that is? Their website says your franchise sells it. What does it look like? well, a lot like those cans over there ... no, there ... down a little, next shelf. No, no, I don't want one, I ... uh .. never mind; I'll take this gum, thanks."

I'm glad I didn't try that a couple of days ago. I'll stick with diversions that aren't found in the tobacco section of the store, for a while.

I'm still feeling woozy, but my real trials don't start until the heavy fighting is over and the boredom sets in. I actually enjoy feeling crappy. It means I'm getting stronger. That's true, but it's also part of the poisonous head-game that keeps me addicted. I like fighting the fog, just like I enjoy swallowing toxic saliva that would make most people vomit. It's a symptom of my sickness.

My average quit is about two months - and like I said before, there've been dozens of those. It's all about some insane mind-game - something about having proven that I could beat it, so I must still be free. I've told myself just as many times, "Wake up moron. You graduated from high school, went through college, got married, had children, teach Sunday School, watched your children get married and read bedtime stories to your grandchildren, all with a plug of horse-crap in your face. Your life story is more about chew than it is about any other single thing. Free because you can quit? what a joke. You're only free if you can keep from starting again."

That's the truth, too, and the truth helps. But my weakness isn't that I'm ignorant of what's really going on. My weakness is that sometime soon, maybe in the next few weeks - maybe it will take months, I just won't care. It's just a moment of numbness and thoughtlessness, but that's all it takes to knock me back to Day 1.

This is the first time I've ever tried to quit with help. I never liked to admit that I used tobacco, I like it even less to admit that I'm quitting. But, I can already see ways that the pattern has been broken. I see why it makes sense for me now. We all stop caring for just a minute, but the group can't do that. I'll have off days, but the group is always on. When the time comes that I need it to work for me, I have good reasons to think that will happen. If nobody reads this, fine - I still know this is true. I've been watching it work.

I just needed to think out loud, to file down the edges that the gum can't deal with. These first weeks are all about equipping for the long siege to come, to plan against the boredom, the complacence, the secretly-formed plans to surrender. So, thanks for providing me a place to collect my provisions.

Ninereasons - Day 7

nine,

check this out, you don't relapse because your bored. That may be what you tell yourself, but thats a bunch of crap. That is the rationalization of an addict. Here is a snippet from " why I chew" off the Other resources page.

"It is both a powerful physical and psychological addiction which creates many irrational beliefs as defense mechanisms in order to perpetuate the chewing behavior"

You see the fallacy in your own thinking which is a good start, your belief about starting again because of boredom ar numbness or lack of caring IS AN IRRATIONAL BELIEF. It is a use rationalization. It is denial of addiction

"It's all about some insane mind-game - something about having proven that I could beat it, so I must still be free. "

and you recognize that your only free if you keep from starting. Like me your an addict. No different than a heroin junkie or a crack head. Your rational mind gets pushed under the bed and the addict takes over. You DO care, or you wouldn't keep trying to stop. The clerk at the 7-11 doesn't hypnotize you and stuff a wedge of cope in your yap, you choose to put it in your mouth. The can doesn't sneak back into your bedroom or your life you CHOOSE IT.

Your anticipation of losing your motivation to stay quit is a prelude to your own cave. Your actually teeing up the ball. Do you see it? In short " I call bullshit"

sM

Nine- take a hard look at yourself, why is it that you believe you " just don't care" I would challenge you to give me some reasons why you " dont care" I'd like to see what you come up with.

[ninereasons]

It's not a good idea to try to handle a craving by looking for a store that sells Smokey Mountain.

"Hi, I'm looking for a tobacco substitute called Smokey Mountain - do you know what that is? Their website says your franchise sells it. What does it look like? well, a lot like those cans over there ... no, there ... down a little, next shelf. No, no, I don't want one, I ... uh .. never mind; I'll take this gum, thanks."

I'm glad I didn't try that a couple of days ago. I'll stick with diversions that aren't found in the tobacco section of the store, for a while.

I'm still feeling woozy, but my real trials don't start until the heavy fighting is over and the boredom sets in. I actually enjoy feeling crappy. It means I'm getting stronger. That's true, but it's also part of the poisonous head-game that keeps me addicted. I like fighting the fog, just like I enjoy swallowing toxic saliva that would make most people vomit. It's a symptom of my sickness.

My average quit is about two months - and like I said before, there've been dozens of those. It's all about some insane mind-game - something about having proven that I could beat it, so I must still be free. I've told myself just as many times, "Wake up moron. You graduated from high school, went through college, got married, had children, teach Sunday School, watched your children get married and read bedtime stories to your grandchildren, all with a plug of horse-crap in your face. Your life story is more about chew than it is about any other single thing. Free because you can quit? what a joke. You're only free if you can keep from starting again."

That's the truth, too, and the truth helps. But my weakness isn't that I'm ignorant of what's really going on. My weakness is that sometime soon, maybe in the next few weeks - maybe it will take months, I just won't care. It's just a moment of numbness and thoughtlessness, but that's all it takes to knock me back to Day 1.

This is the first time I've ever tried to quit with help. I never liked to admit that I used tobacco, I like it even less to admit that I'm quitting. But, I can already see ways that the pattern has been broken. I see why it makes sense for me now. We all stop caring for just a minute, but the group can't do that. I'll have off days, but the group is always on. When the time comes that I need it to work for me, I have good reasons to think that will happen. If nobody reads this, fine - I still know this is true. I've been watching it work.

I just needed to think out loud, to file down the edges that the gum can't deal with. These first weeks are all about equipping for the long siege to come, to plan against the boredom, the complacence, the secretly-formed plans to surrender. So, thanks for providing me a place to collect my provisions.

Ninereasons - Day 7