Upper Lippin'

[Leahy16]

Is it just me or are we starting to see more and more and more of the "moderators" become cyber assholes? We have a quitter here who is clearly making an effort to learn the ways of this site, he posts roll, takes lot of other advice, and yet much of the message from the "official" members of KTC is pretty discouraging. Is this really necessary? Is this really the message you want to send? Didn't we see this last week with another moderator? What gives?

[Ready]

Elric? Is that You?

[redtrain14]

Kinda funny that while we all have the same goal, we will argue with one another over the verbiage which will best help us accomplish that goal. It is probably Nicci hoping that the argument will cause a schism and send someone into her deadly embrace.

Quite the contrary.

Tell me, what was going through your mind when you were typing your rebuttals?

[CoachDoc]

As a pseudo-vet - I don't consider 699 days quit quite long enough to qualify me as a true vet, yet - I would be happy to share some "bits of advice."

First, if Kool-Aid brings up negative images and thoughts, or otherwise offends you, I'm sure you know that was not the intent. If someone on here wanted to offend you, they would blatantly do it (the strength and power the anonymity of the internet gives is amazing). Follow one of the pieces of advice I am sure that you have seen - take what is useful, throw the rest away (except when it comes to the process of posting roll).

You are an intelligent gent and you have clearly understood the meaning of the metaphor. You know that when a member suggests you "drink the Kool-Aid," they are asking you to fall in line with the philosophies of KTC that have proven to be effective. They aren't asking you to join Heaven's Gate.

You had said that you couldn't (wouldn't) just accept something but had to use the old scientific approach. Well here's a little quote from a certain linguist who kind of speaks directly to this -

As soon as questions of will or decision or reason or choice of action arise, human science is at a loss.
- Noam Chomsky

I would say this - focus less on the actual body of text as you see it unfold on these pages, focus more on the actual discourse. It is within the body of the discourse that you will find the true value to be had here, not within the individual words, lines or paragraphs.

The fact that you are willing to gripe about the site design, the members thay may (or may not) have offended you, and other general things BUT still make it clear that you intend to continue with the site is a very good sign.

Last piece of advice - don't hesitate to ask for help when you feel you need it and be direct. Tell us when you are struggling, don't hide it inside of other noise. Many of the members on here are exceptional at reading the needs of new quitters - they have seen thousands come and go - but others sometimes can't see through peripheral noise in order to see when a new brother is asking for help.

If you ever need a number, just ask - it's yours.

[G]

Have you read every HOF speech as well?

That's where I would go next.

After HOF speeches, I would pick a quit group and read it from the first post ever made until the present.

Might I suggest this quit group:

index.php?show...0#entry6326220

[markr]

First of all Souliman, Redtrain14, DW3, and others who have sent me PMs and emails: Thank you. I get your commitment to life, to others, and to me.

We all have different backgrounds and different hot-buttons.

We are all here for one thing: Kick the Nic. Some for the first (successful) time, others to remind her not to get up.

Kinda funny that while we all have the same goal, we will argue with one another over the verbiage which will best help us accomplish that goal. It is probably Nicci hoping that the argument will cause a schism and send someone into her deadly embrace.

I did say that I'd follow vet veteran advice, and I have been. Been posting daily (given advice). Been posting early (given advice). Been exchanging numbers (given advice). Been taking each day one at a time through the sweats and anger (given advice).

I've spent many hours searching this site for bits of advice from vets (not an easy task). I kinda liked the analogy about listening to a Veteran talk me through a mine field. But blindly following without thought is what got me here in the first place. A close friend said, "Here, try this stuff. It may make you sick at first, but TRUST ME, you'll like it." It DID, I DID, and here I am, 42 years later.

I have accepted the coaching that language makes the difference ("There is no TRY." "You've never quit if you started again, only stopped."). I understand that the language we speak can make a difference in our success. Just because one has a successful history of keeping off Ms. Nicci does not mean that one cannot examine the possibility that his/her language affects others. The elitism of "Follow me blindly because I've been there" is a load of bull.

When it comes to "Drink the Kool-Aid," you may have no other metaphor (it is not a euphemism) to use. Just consider that YOUR language too can make a difference. But, what do I know? It's already been pointed out that I "Don't Know Shit." Who is looking down whose nose at whom?

BTW, I DO NOT want coddled. Call me an asshole, wimp, and jerk when I don't post. Those who have my cell... call me every two minutes when I don't keep my word. Rough and tough is fine by me. But fuck you elitists who accuse me of looking down my nose at you when that is exactly what YOU'RE doing.

I HATE this site. It is one of the worst designed sites I've ever seen. TO find things, you've got to devote hours and figure out how to follow instructions, e.g. "Post Roll" WHERE THE HELL DO I DO THAT WHEN I'VE JUST FOUND THE SITE? (I do know, now). I HATE this site, but even though I don't know ONE SOUL, I committed to those faceless souls, gave my word, and will honor it (each and every day).

Even though I despise your elitism, I APPRECIATE YOUR COMMITMENT TO TRYING TO MAKE A DIFFERENCE FOR ME AND OTHERS. THANKS!

Paul's Day 4 rant.... Stay tuned for more.... LOL

Way to go!! Venting does the quit good. You are doing fine keep up the good work.

[TwoScoreAndTwoUser]

Ah, yea. Already read em. Some a few times. Why do you think I'm still hanging around?

[G]

I've spent many hours searching this site for bits of advice from vets (not an easy task).

There are seven pages of it at the link below. We call it "Words of Wisdom." Take nice, long gulps. You won't OD on the advice/wisdom found anywhere on this site. This place is different from an academic or medical care setting in that we don't sit around telling others how to do things because we read in a book that it works. We lived it as you're living it now.

index.php?showforum=41

Find a few here that resonate with you, sir. One of my personal favorites can be found here:

index.php?showtopic=3861

Yell if you have any questions.

[TwoScoreAndTwoUser]

First of all Souliman, Redtrain14, DW3, and others who have sent me PMs and emails: Thank you. I get your commitment to life, to others, and to me.

We all have different backgrounds and different hot-buttons.

We are all here for one thing: Kick the Nic. Some for the first (successful) time, others to remind her not to get up.

Kinda funny that while we all have the same goal, we will argue with one another over the verbiage which will best help us accomplish that goal. It is probably Nicci hoping that the argument will cause a schism and send someone into her deadly embrace.

I did say that I'd follow vet veteran advice, and I have been. Been posting daily (given advice). Been posting early (given advice). Been exchanging numbers (given advice). Been taking each day one at a time through the sweats and anger (given advice).

I've spent many hours searching this site for bits of advice from vets (not an easy task). I kinda liked the analogy about listening to a Veteran talk me through a mine field. But blindly following without thought is what got me here in the first place. A close friend said, "Here, try this stuff. It may make you sick at first, but TRUST ME, you'll like it." It DID, I DID, and here I am, 42 years later.

I have accepted the coaching that language makes the difference ("There is no TRY." "You've never quit if you started again, only stopped."). I understand that the language we speak can make a difference in our success. Just because one has a successful history of keeping off Ms. Nicci does not mean that one cannot examine the possibility that his/her language affects others. The elitism of "Follow me blindly because I've been there" is a load of bull.

When it comes to "Drink the Kool-Aid," you may have no other metaphor (it is not a euphemism) to use. Just consider that YOUR language too can make a difference. But, what do I know? It's already been pointed out that I "Don't Know Shit." Who is looking down whose nose at whom?

BTW, I DO NOT want coddled. Call me an asshole, wimp, and jerk when I don't post. Those who have my cell... call me every two minutes when I don't keep my word. Rough and tough is fine by me. But fuck you elitists who accuse me of looking down my nose at you when that is exactly what YOU'RE doing.

I HATE this site. It is one of the worst designed sites I've ever seen. TO find things, you've got to devote hours and figure out how to follow instructions, e.g. "Post Roll" WHERE THE HELL DO I DO THAT WHEN I'VE JUST FOUND THE SITE? (I do know, now). I HATE this site, but even though I don't know ONE SOUL, I committed to those faceless souls, gave my word, and will honor it (each and every day).

Even though I despise your elitism, I APPRECIATE YOUR COMMITMENT TO TRYING TO MAKE A DIFFERENCE FOR ME AND OTHERS. THANKS!

Paul's Day 4 rant.... Stay tuned for more.... LOL

[Souliman]

Guess I'm showing my age.  To ME, drinking the Kool-Aid is a reference to those who followed Rev. Jim Jones blindly and drank themselves to death in Jonestown, Guyana, 1978.  I was 22 at the time and horrified that 900+ people would blindly follow this man and "drink the kool-aid."

Will I follow the advice of a seasoned veteran?  You bet!  Will I DRINK THE KOOL AID?  Fuckin' Never!  I can't say "Try to quit" without being lambasted here, ostensibly because of the importance of the words we use.  OK.  I got that.  But wake up and smell the coffee grinds in your lips.  "Drink the Kool Aid" is So charged that 600 adults and 300 CHILDREN lost their lives.  Be careful how you speak and understand history, for if you are ignorant of it, you MAY find yourself reliving it.

A lot of us were old enough to remember that and this is exactly what it is a reference to. You may find that objectionable but the point is that in the early stages of your quit when one is prone to dip rage, special butterfly syndrome, addict speak, overconfidence etc. it is important to get in line and follow the program. It works and you need to believe in it blindly till you gain your strength.

I venture to guess that is far from how most of the people on this site live their lives but most are here because they have tried everything else to quit and FAILED. Not a good resume for bucking the system IMHO.

I love seeing you post up so early. I'll quit with you today.

The point is, you need to believe in this so much, that you ARE willing to drink the kool-aid. Right now, I don't think you do. I picture you looking at this down an enlongated nose through reading spectacles much the same way an arogant college professor looks at his new class of freshmen. You don't know shit.

What lengths are you willing to go to protect your quit? Are you willing to do whatever it takes? I have my doubts. I've seen this story many times here. Prove me wrong.

Oh, and spare me the history lesson.

You willing to save your life Professor? That's all I give a shit about. One of my esteemed colleagues would say "don't take a seat in the life boat unless you want to save your life". Dean RedTrain is trying to tell your current GPA is 0.2 and fat, dumb and stupid is no way to go through life. If you want to be successful, we seem to have a few bylaws that give you just that. A few hours of extra credit and DRINKING THE KOOL-AID will get you exactly what you want. Pull the stick out of your ass and put your being behind this. May be the baggage of the past weighs heavy on you...I dunno. All I care about is saving my life and surrounding myself with folks doing the same. May be you should see some picks of ODT or read the Kern's story. May be that will get you past the euphemism that we affectionately call drinking the kool-aid.

[redtrain14]

Guess I'm showing my age.  To ME, drinking the Kool-Aid is a reference to those who followed Rev. Jim Jones blindly and drank themselves to death in Jonestown, Guyana, 1978.  I was 22 at the time and horrified that 900+ people would blindly follow this man and "drink the kool-aid."

Will I follow the advice of a seasoned veteran?  You bet!  Will I DRINK THE KOOL AID?  Fuckin' Never!  I can't say "Try to quit" without being lambasted here, ostensibly because of the importance of the words we use.  OK.  I got that.  But wake up and smell the coffee grinds in your lips.  "Drink the Kool Aid" is So charged that 600 adults and 300 CHILDREN lost their lives.  Be careful how you speak and understand history, for if you are ignorant of it, you MAY find yourself reliving it.

A lot of us were old enough to remember that and this is exactly what it is a reference to. You may find that objectionable but the point is that in the early stages of your quit when one is prone to dip rage, special butterfly syndrome, addict speak, overconfidence etc. it is important to get in line and follow the program. It works and you need to believe in it blindly till you gain your strength.

I venture to guess that is far from how most of the people on this site live their lives but most are here because they have tried everything else to quit and FAILED. Not a good resume for bucking the system IMHO.

I love seeing you post up so early. I'll quit with you today.

The point is, you need to believe in this so much, that you ARE willing to drink the kool-aid. Right now, I don't think you do. I picture you looking at this down an enlongated nose through reading spectacles much the same way an arogant college professor looks at his new class of freshmen. You don't know shit.

What lengths are you willing to go to protect your quit? Are you willing to do whatever it takes? I have my doubts. I've seen this story many times here. Prove me wrong.

Oh, and spare me the history lesson.

[DW3]

Guess I'm showing my age. To ME, drinking the Kool-Aid is a reference to those who followed Rev. Jim Jones blindly and drank themselves to death in Jonestown, Guyana, 1978. I was 22 at the time and horrified that 900+ people would blindly follow this man and "drink the kool-aid."

Will I follow the advice of a seasoned veteran? You bet! Will I DRINK THE KOOL AID? Fuckin' Never! I can't say "Try to quit" without being lambasted here, ostensibly because of the importance of the words we use. OK. I got that. But wake up and smell the coffee grinds in your lips. "Drink the Kool Aid" is So charged that 600 adults and 300 CHILDREN lost their lives. Be careful how you speak and understand history, for if you are ignorant of it, you MAY find yourself reliving it.

A lot of us were old enough to remember that and this is exactly what it is a reference to. You may find that objectionable but the point is that in the early stages of your quit when one is prone to dip rage, special butterfly syndrome, addict speak, overconfidence etc. it is important to get in line and follow the program. It works and you need to believe in it blindly till you gain your strength.

I venture to guess that is far from how most of the people on this site live their lives but most are here because they have tried everything else to quit and FAILED. Not a good resume for bucking the system IMHO.

I love seeing you post up so early. I'll quit with you today.

[TwoScoreAndTwoUser]

Guess I'm showing my age. To ME, drinking the Kool-Aid is a reference to those who followed Rev. Jim Jones blindly and drank themselves to death in Jonestown, Guyana, 1978. I was 22 at the time and horrified that 900+ people would blindly follow this man and "drink the kool-aid."

Will I follow the advice of a seasoned veteran? You bet! Will I DRINK THE KOOL AID? Fuckin' Never! I can't say "Try to quit" without being lambasted here, ostensibly because of the importance of the words we use. OK. I got that. But wake up and smell the coffee grinds in your lips. "Drink the Kool Aid" is So charged that 600 adults and 300 CHILDREN lost their lives. Be careful how you speak and understand history, for if you are ignorant of it, you MAY find yourself reliving it.

[AgLawyer]

KTC has the best tastin' Kool-aid around. Take a drink, and another, and another. You'll be glad you did. I dipped for half as long as you did but still 21 years too long. But for this place I would not be free as I am now.

A popular saying here, not worded exactly like this, is take what helps from KTC and leave the rest.

Most importantly, QUIT today. Repeat tomorrow. Simple.

[DennyX]

Some of the deepest, darkest truths about ourselves are found here. Butterfly