General Discussion - 2017

[Pothole]

It's been over 3 days now since I quit. The fog mostly went away today. I've been hitting the gym, eating alot and pounding water, lol. I don't plan on ever going back to dip. The last time I "quit" was in 2010. But I only quit because I was forced to during marine corps boot camp. I know this is a nicotine free thing, but just a general question.. would using a nicotine gum make the fog come back? My roommate has some of the gum he offered me and I said no.. but thinking about having nicotine without the dip seems kind of nice lol. Would it fuck everything up?

Yes it would. Don't exchange one form of nicotine for another. You are addicted to nicotine (as am I and everyone else here) and to break that addiction you must quit using it, cold turkey. Using nicotine gum instead of dip is like an alcoholic using beer to get off liquor. Don't do it.

I have to politely disagree with that analogy. In the case of an alcoholic, the alcohol is what is causing the harm. In the case of a chewing addict, the nicotine is not causing the harm in iteself, the tobacco is. Remove the tobacco and the harm is reduced by 90% or more. I'm fully aware this is nicotine-free forum and that any form of nicotine use is not tolerated and I respect that. However, I think there is opportunity for an open and honest discussion about nicotine in itself, removed completely from the tobacco leaf as a delivery method, and how the use of particular tobacco free nicotine alternatives can contribute to the process of quitting tobacco use. I'll likely be banned from the site for expressing this view, but I think it's a valid discussion.

Phole, do you agree nicotine is addictive? And if you are a recovering addict and trying to quit this addiction why would you let that door open?
For me to even crack that door would is a risk that I am not willing to take to going back stuffing my face with Cope.

Phole; why are you here? to try to make yourself feel better?

So let me get this straight.

The actual nicotine, the thing that is addictive, is not the issue. It is the delivery method.

Did I get that right?

So would you suggest that an alcoholic who only drinks beer can switch to wine and be ok? Or whiskey? Because that's really just a delivery method as well.

Look, the addictive substance is what we are fighting against. If you nicotine from gum or lozenges, you are merely delaying the inevitable withdrawals that are a result of nicotine leaving your system...not tobacco.

There is no room on the board for NRT or vaping or anything else that provides nicotine in your system. It is not a valid discussion because you are simply suggesting that nicotine is not the issue. It is what we fight against.

The actual nicotine, the thing that is addictive, is not the issue. It is the delivery method. Did I get that right? Nicotine is addictive, yes. The delivery system, tobacco, is what kills you.

So would you suggest that an alcoholic who only drinks beer can switch to wine and be ok? Or whiskey? Because that's really just a delivery method as well. No, the alcohol in your analogy is the tobacco. I'm advocating removing the tobacco (the alcohol in your analogy) from the nicotine. Nicotine doesn't kill you. Tobacco does.

Look, the addictive substance is what we are fighting against. If you nicotine from gum or lozenges, you are merely delaying the inevitable withdrawals that are a result of nicotine leaving your system...not tobacco. But it's the tobacco that you are trying to rid yourself of. What if you could have nicotine without tobacco and suffer no harmful, long-term effects? We as a society are so against smoking and tobacco use that nicotine is getting a bad rap. It actually has some benefits like caffeine does if separated from tobacco. And, and I realize I'm going out on a limb here, but the use of nicotine in the absence of tobacco alkaloids has a much different response on the brain that when nicotine is paired with tobacco. This is really new science and doesn't have a lot of based research, but it's slowly happening.

There is no room on the board for NRT or vaping or anything else that provides nicotine in your system. It is not a valid discussion because you are simply suggesting that nicotine is not the issue. It is what we fight against. I know it is, thus why I am posing a counterpoint viewpoint.

[Pothole]

It's been over 3 days now since I quit. The fog mostly went away today. I've been hitting the gym, eating alot and pounding water, lol. I don't plan on ever going back to dip. The last time I "quit" was in 2010. But I only quit because I was forced to during marine corps boot camp. I know this is a nicotine free thing, but just a general question.. would using a nicotine gum make the fog come back? My roommate has some of the gum he offered me and I said no.. but thinking about having nicotine without the dip seems kind of nice lol. Would it fuck everything up?

Yes it would. Don't exchange one form of nicotine for another. You are addicted to nicotine (as am I and everyone else here) and to break that addiction you must quit using it, cold turkey. Using nicotine gum instead of dip is like an alcoholic using beer to get off liquor. Don't do it.

I have to politely disagree with that analogy. In the case of an alcoholic, the alcohol is what is causing the harm. In the case of a chewing addict, the nicotine is not causing the harm in iteself, the tobacco is. Remove the tobacco and the harm is reduced by 90% or more. I'm fully aware this is nicotine-free forum and that any form of nicotine use is not tolerated and I respect that. However, I think there is opportunity for an open and honest discussion about nicotine in itself, removed completely from the tobacco leaf as a delivery method, and how the use of particular tobacco free nicotine alternatives can contribute to the process of quitting tobacco use. I'll likely be banned from the site for expressing this view, but I think it's a valid discussion.

Phole, do you agree nicotine is addictive? And if you are a recovering addict and trying to quit this addiction why would you let that door open?
For me to even crack that door would is a risk that I am not willing to take to going back stuffing my face with Cope.

Phole; why are you here? to try to make yourself feel better?

Phole....that's cute in a junior high kind of way. So, to answer your questions:

Phole, do you agree nicotine is addictive? Yes I do. Incredibly so. Especially when nicotine is delivered with tobacco as the delivery mechanism.

And if you are a recovering addict and trying to quit this addiction why would you let that door open? Well, nicotine is not the issue. It's the delivery system...tobacco. That's the real culprit in this mess we are all in. Remove the tobacco and nicotine is as harmful as caffeine. I'm advocating we look at this from a harm reduction viewpoint. It's so black and white....tobacco and nicotine is evil and will kill us all. Well, there are shades of grey here that the mainstream view isn't recognizing. Nicotine isn't the evil, tobacco is. Nicotine on it's own doesn't cause cancer. Yes, it may increase blood pressure and increase heart rate, but so does Red Bull and so does your morning cup of coffee. What if we were able to enjoy nicotine without tobacco? Increased alertness, motor skills, memory retention...without the side effects of tobacco? This is new thinking and new science that a number of doctors are beginning to advocate. I understand it's not mainstream belief of tobacco is bad, nicotine is bad, you MUST quit it all...but it's worth just thinking about. This site may not be the forum for this thinking and I get that.

For me to even crack that door would is a risk that I am not willing to take to going back stuffing my face with Cope. There are many alternatives for you to consider if you are about to cave that are so less harmful than a dip of cope.


Phole; why are you here? to try to make yourself feel better? Phole....again, you're funny. No, I'm not trying to make myself feel better. I'd like to participate in this community on my tobacco free terms and not have to subscribe to what I feel is an outdated model of nicotine free terms dictated by this site. Again, the black and white model in my opinion is outdated and not sustainable by a majority of tobacco users. I think if the conversation were to be tobacco free, with the ability to use tobacco free alternatives this would create a more diverse and broad community of those interested in harm reduction as it relates to nictotine.

[Frazzled]

It's been over 3 days now since I quit. The fog mostly went away today. I've been hitting the gym, eating alot and pounding water, lol. I don't plan on ever going back to dip. The last time I "quit" was in 2010. But I only quit because I was forced to during marine corps boot camp. I know this is a nicotine free thing, but just a general question.. would using a nicotine gum make the fog come back? My roommate has some of the gum he offered me and I said no.. but thinking about having nicotine without the dip seems kind of nice lol. Would it fuck everything up?

Yes it would. Don't exchange one form of nicotine for another. You are addicted to nicotine (as am I and everyone else here) and to break that addiction you must quit using it, cold turkey. Using nicotine gum instead of dip is like an alcoholic using beer to get off liquor. Don't do it.

I have to politely disagree with that analogy. In the case of an alcoholic, the alcohol is what is causing the harm. In the case of a chewing addict, the nicotine is not causing the harm in iteself, the tobacco is. Remove the tobacco and the harm is reduced by 90% or more. I'm fully aware this is nicotine-free forum and that any form of nicotine use is not tolerated and I respect that. However, I think there is opportunity for an open and honest discussion about nicotine in itself, removed completely from the tobacco leaf as a delivery method, and how the use of particular tobacco free nicotine alternatives can contribute to the process of quitting tobacco use. I'll likely be banned from the site for expressing this view, but I think it's a valid discussion.

Phole, do you agree nicotine is addictive? And if you are a recovering addict and trying to quit this addiction why would you let that door open?
For me to even crack that door would is a risk that I am not willing to take to going back stuffing my face with Cope.

Phole; why are you here? to try to make yourself feel better?

So let me get this straight.

The actual nicotine, the thing that is addictive, is not the issue. It is the delivery method.

Did I get that right?

So would you suggest that an alcoholic who only drinks beer can switch to wine and be ok? Or whiskey? Because that's really just a delivery method as well.

Look, the addictive substance is what we are fighting against. If you nicotine from gum or lozenges, you are merely delaying the inevitable withdrawals that are a result of nicotine leaving your system...not tobacco.

There is no room on the board for NRT or vaping or anything else that provides nicotine in your system. It is not a valid discussion because you are simply suggesting that nicotine is not the issue. It is what we fight against.

[Idaho Spuds]

It's been over 3 days now since I quit. The fog mostly went away today. I've been hitting the gym, eating alot and pounding water, lol. I don't plan on ever going back to dip. The last time I "quit" was in 2010. But I only quit because I was forced to during marine corps boot camp. I know this is a nicotine free thing, but just a general question.. would using a nicotine gum make the fog come back? My roommate has some of the gum he offered me and I said no.. but thinking about having nicotine without the dip seems kind of nice lol. Would it fuck everything up?

Yes it would. Don't exchange one form of nicotine for another. You are addicted to nicotine (as am I and everyone else here) and to break that addiction you must quit using it, cold turkey. Using nicotine gum instead of dip is like an alcoholic using beer to get off liquor. Don't do it.

I have to politely disagree with that analogy. In the case of an alcoholic, the alcohol is what is causing the harm. In the case of a chewing addict, the nicotine is not causing the harm in iteself, the tobacco is. Remove the tobacco and the harm is reduced by 90% or more. I'm fully aware this is nicotine-free forum and that any form of nicotine use is not tolerated and I respect that. However, I think there is opportunity for an open and honest discussion about nicotine in itself, removed completely from the tobacco leaf as a delivery method, and how the use of particular tobacco free nicotine alternatives can contribute to the process of quitting tobacco use. I'll likely be banned from the site for expressing this view, but I think it's a valid discussion.

Phole, do you agree nicotine is addictive? And if you are a recovering addict and trying to quit this addiction why would you let that door open?
For me to even crack that door would is a risk that I am not willing to take to going back stuffing my face with Cope.

Phole; why are you here? to try to make yourself feel better?

[Pothole]

It's been over 3 days now since I quit. The fog mostly went away today. I've been hitting the gym, eating alot and pounding water, lol. I don't plan on ever going back to dip. The last time I "quit" was in 2010. But I only quit because I was forced to during marine corps boot camp. I know this is a nicotine free thing, but just a general question.. would using a nicotine gum make the fog come back? My roommate has some of the gum he offered me and I said no.. but thinking about having nicotine without the dip seems kind of nice lol. Would it fuck everything up?

Yes it would. Don't exchange one form of nicotine for another. You are addicted to nicotine (as am I and everyone else here) and to break that addiction you must quit using it, cold turkey. Using nicotine gum instead of dip is like an alcoholic using beer to get off liquor. Don't do it.

I have to politely disagree with that analogy. In the case of an alcoholic, the alcohol is what is causing the harm. In the case of a chewing addict, the nicotine is not causing the harm in iteself, the tobacco is. Remove the tobacco and the harm is reduced by 90% or more. I'm fully aware this is nicotine-free forum and that any form of nicotine use is not tolerated and I respect that. However, I think there is opportunity for an open and honest discussion about nicotine in itself, removed completely from the tobacco leaf as a delivery method, and how the use of particular tobacco free nicotine alternatives can contribute to the process of quitting tobacco use. I'll likely be banned from the site for expressing this view, but I think it's a valid discussion.

[sk8er 36]

Yea I'd like some mouth lacerations with my cancer please

[JB65]

As if this shit wasn't bad enough already...

U.S Smokeless Tobacco Company recalls products after sharp metal objects discovered.
http://www.wsmv.com/story/34399596/us-s ... discovered

Jeez.. ... I remembered sometimes when I help the can and the light hit it just right i could see sparkles... but nothing like this. My mouth loves my again after hating me for almost 30 years

[chewie]

As if this shit wasn't bad enough already...

U.S Smokeless Tobacco Company recalls products after sharp metal objects discovered.
http://www.wsmv.com/story/34399596/us-s ... discovered

[JB65]

Hey oldrow. Welcome to KTC. See you lurking down there. Tell us your story and let's get to quitting together!

Here's mine to make it easier for you. Mine is probably just like 10,000 other member here. Chewed for 20+ years on and off mostly on. Convinced I was not annaddict because in "only" chewed 1 can a week...

Didn't matter. Was an addict. Stopped a few times lasted years even. Then I always found my way back. I never actually quit until 8-17-15. When I found this nuthouse.

Cruise this site. Read up like you are doing. No pressure. Whe. Your ready let's do this!

Jb

[JB65]

Hey oldrow. Welcome to KTC. See you lurking down there. Tell us your story and let's get to quitting together!

[Leonidas]

Thanks guys (And gals), for taking the time to respond.

Much appreciated. Wandering the halls here, it's obvious there's good people here.

[KingNothing]

So I quit three days ago, find this site, and think, "cool, I'll check it out"

Someone says to head over to May 2017 for support and.....

Are you kidding me?

A bunch of back and forth sniveling about you did this, I did that...

Bummer. Coulda used some help.

Leonidas...every young group goes through some drama in the early going. Every single one. But I will tell you this, I don't know if I would be quit without my brothers in the October 2016 Dumpster Fire. You have nothing to lose but a horrible, damaging addiction. You have everything to gain, including a band of brothers who will support you every step of the way.

If you want the best possible chance of quitting, have a little faith, jump in and post roll.

FLLipOut

The advice doesn't get any better than this ^^^. At this point you'll have to take our collective word for it, but you won't regret it. Like Frazz said earlier, if you think you aren't just like everyone else here at the core, you're wrong. You're an addict. Frazz is an addict. FLLip is an addict. I most certainly am an addict. This place is stronger than your addict mind, but you have to buy all the way in for it to work.

[FLLipOut]

So I quit three days ago, find this site, and think, "cool, I'll check it out"

Someone says to head over to May 2017 for support and.....

Are you kidding me?

A bunch of back and forth sniveling about you did this, I did that...

Bummer. Coulda used some help.

Leonidas...every young group goes through some drama in the early going. Every single one. But I will tell you this, I don't know if I would be quit without my brothers in the October 2016 Dumpster Fire. You have nothing to lose but a horrible, damaging addiction. You have everything to gain, including a band of brothers who will support you every step of the way.

If you want the best possible chance of quitting, have a little faith, jump in and post roll.

FLLipOut

[chewie]

So I quit three days ago, find this site, and think, "cool, I'll check it out"

Someone says to head over to May 2017 for support and.....

Are you kidding me?

A bunch of back and forth sniveling about you did this, I did that...

Bummer. Coulda used some help.

Dive into the fray and get involved. What youa re seeing is "brotherhood and accountability" in action. The reality is we're addicts, and the only way we can beat this today is through calling out addict-speak and addict-behavior.

Join us and you will understand. Why not try it? You'll end up with more support than you could possibly imagine.

If you take one peak and leave you're missing out.

Stick around. It may not look like it yet, but this place can be exactly what you're looking for if you let it.

Chewie

[Frazzled]

So I quit three days ago, find this site, and think, "cool, I'll check it out"

Someone says to head over to May 2017 for support and.....

Are you kidding me?

A bunch of back and forth sniveling about you did this, I did that...

Bummer. Coulda used some help.

Dive into the fray and get involved. What youa re seeing is "brotherhood and accountability" in action. The reality is we're addicts, and the only way we can beat this today is through calling out addict-speak and addict-behavior.

Join us and you will understand. Why not try it? You'll end up with more support than you could possibly imagine.