SRains918

[SRains918]

How to Survive Post-Acute Withdrawal

I feel much better than I did yesterday.  I'm still in the funk, but coming out.  More from the linked page of yesterday, with my comments interspersed.

Be patient. You can't hurry recovery. But you can get through it one day at a time. If you resent post-acute withdrawal, or try to bulldoze your way through it, you will become exhausted. And when you're exhausted you will think of using to escape. One day at a time.  We see this a lot.

Post-acute withdrawal symptoms are a sign that your brain is recovering. Therefore don't resent them. But remember, even after one year, you are still only half way there.  (Two focking years.  )

Go with the flow. Withdrawal symptoms are uncomfortable. But the more you resent them the worse they'll seem. You'll have lots of good days over the next two years. Enjoy them. You'll also have lots of bad days. On those days, don't try to do too much. Take care of yourself, focus on your recovery, and you'll get through this.

Practice self-care. Give yourself lots of little breaks over the next two years. Tell yourself "what I am doing is enough." Be good to yourself. That is what most addicts can't do, and that's what you must learn in recovery. Recovery is the opposite of addiction.

Sometimes you'll have little energy or enthusiasm for anything. Understand this and don't over book your life. Give yourself permission to focus on your recovery.  This is key.  We used nicotine to help us push ourselves.  Now we have to learn not to push - and let it happen.

Post-acute withdrawal can be a trigger for relapse. You'll go for weeks without any withdrawal symptoms, and then one day you'll wake up and your withdrawal will hit you like a ton of bricks. You'll have slept badly. You'll be in a bad mood. Your energy will be low. And if you're not prepared for it, if you think that post-acute withdrawal only lasts for a few months, or if you think that you'll be different and it won't be as bad for you, then you'll get caught off guard. But if you know what to expect you can do this.

Being able to relax will help you through post-acute withdrawal. When you're tense you tend to dwell on your symptoms and make them worse. When you're relaxed it's easier to not get caught up in them. You aren't as triggered by your symptoms which means you're less likely to relapse.

Remember, every relapse, no matter how small undoes the gains your brain has made during recovery. Without abstinence everything will fall apart. With abstinence everything is possible. (Reference: www.AddictionsAndRecovery.org)

I hear a lot of cavers say they reached a "fuck it" point when they caved.  I always wondered what "fuck it" is and how someone would find themselves there.  Maybe this is it.  PAWS (Post Acute Withdrawal Symptoms).  Be on guard for this shite.  It can be powerful, and the nic bitch follows in on its heels, waiting for you to get to "fuck it".

[SRains918]

The Symptoms of Post Acute Withdrawal

Why am I doing this?  Why am I posting shit on a random thread buried so deep in a random website that nobody other than myself will find it, much less read it?  I used to think I was helping other people like me.  Fock that.  There are no other people like me, and everything I post on this thread is old news.  This website is about 11 years old, and there have been 12 groups go through this process in each of the 11 years, so this path has been traveled at least 132 times.  I don't have anything new to add.

I guess, like my good friend Kubiackalpha stated earlier today, "Writing is therapeutic."  So I'm finished writing for a moment.  Let me just post some juicy "old news" from the site I linked above.

The most common post-acute withdrawal symptoms are:

• Mood swings
• Anxiety
• Irritability
• Tiredness
• Variable energy
• Low enthusiasm
• Variable concentration
• Disturbed sleep

Post-acute withdrawal feels like a rollercoaster of symptoms. In the beginning, your symptoms will change minute to minute and hour to hour. Later as you recover further they will disappear for a few weeks or months only to return again. As you continue to recover the good stretches will get longer and longer. But the bad periods of post-acute withdrawal can be just as intense and last just as long.

Each post-acute withdrawal episode usually last for a few days. Once you've been in recovery for a while, you will find that each post-acute withdrawal episode usually lasts for a few days. There is no obvious trigger for most episodes. You will wake up one day feeling irritable and have low energy. If you hang on for just a few days, it will lift just as quickly as it started. After a while you'll develop confidence that you can get through post-acute withdrawal, because you'll know that each episode is time limited.

Post-acute withdrawal usually lasts for 2 years. This is one of the most important things you need to remember. If you're up for the challenge you can get though this. But if you think that post-acute withdrawal will only last for a few months, then you'll get caught off guard, and when you're disappointed you're more likely to relapse. (Reference: www.AddictionsAndRecovery.org)

Wait, wat???  TWO FOCKING YEARS?!?!?

I don't have two years.  I can only do this for today.  I can only do this for myself.  Bless you Kubiackalpha, I'm depressed too. 

Again, old hat, old news to most of you.  I would spare you, and put it somewhere else, but you don't have to read it. 

I remember when I was a kid, the first time I realized that the sun didn't actually land on that field way over there.  Great focking discovery for me!!  Everyone else around me already knew this.  This is how I feel on this site. 

Hopefully, I'll look back at this post TWO FOCKING YEARS from now and think "My God, why did I post that shite?"

[SRains918]

Answering the three questions - Reprise

I am now at day 77.  Two months ago, I posted some thoughts in here about how cavers should go about answering the three questions.  These thoughts were based on what I had learned about addiction and caving to that point.  Not having caved, I can't, and don't ever want to, speak from experience.  That's a major reason why I'm so interested in the subject of addiction and relapse.  It's too late for me to prevent the addiction, but I can prevent relapse, if I learn how to do it.

So what have I learned recently about caving (relapse)?

Relapse is a process, it's not an event.

It's actually a three step process, consisting of the following:

Emotional relapse.
Mental relapse.
Physical relapse.

In emotional relapse, you're not thinking about using. But your emotions and behaviors are setting you up for a possible relapse in the future.

The signs of emotional relapse are:

• Anxiety
• Intolerance
• Anger
• Defensiveness
• Mood swings
• Isolation
• Not asking for help
• Not going to meetings (or not posting on KTC)
• Poor eating habits
• Poor sleep habits

These signs sound familiar?  Go back a few posts and read about post acute withdrawal symptoms.  Seriously, learn to relax.  Make sure you have others you can share this with.  Recognizes these symptoms for what they are.  You are moving in the direction of a cave.

If you don't get yourself turned away from caving during your emotional relapse, you will move into mental relapse.

In mental relapse there's a war going on in your mind. Part of you wants to use, but part of you doesn't. In the early phase of mental relapse you're just idly thinking about using. But in the later phase you're definitely thinking about using.

The signs of mental relapse are:

• Thinking about people, places, and things you used with
• Glamorizing your past use
• Lying
• Hanging out with old using friends
• Fantasizing about using
• Thinking about relapsing
• Planning your relapse around other people's schedules

It gets harder to make the right choices as the pull of addiction gets stronger.  If you don't catch yourself here, you will cave.

When you get the craving, play it through in your mind.  Get past the cave and imagine what life then looks like.  Remember posting day 1.  Remember the suck.  Remember how you felt when you initially tossed your can and posted day 1.  That's where you will be.  It will be like you never quit, because you didn't quit, you stopped.

Reach out.  This is the time to open your contacts list and text or call someone and let them know what's going on with you.

Distract yourself.  Go for a walk.  Get on KTC and go to the Wildcard section and play "This or That", "One Word Post", or "Count to a Million".

Get through the next 30 minutes.  Promise yourself to wait 30 minutes before using or buying nicotine, and then wait.

Remember one day at a time.  Promise yourself you will get through today.  Then go on KTC and post a promise to get through today.  Post and ghost, if you have to.  Just make that promise.

Do something that relaxes you (assuming this is not alcohol or drugs).

If you don't do something like mentioned above, and get yourself turned around during the mental relapse, you will find yourself in the car on the way to get nicotine.  At this point, you will cave.

So, how does this change my advice on answering the three questions?  The answers to the three questions lie much earlier in the caving process than I originally suspected.  "What happened?" should describe the mental relapse.  "Why did it happen?" should examine how the caver moved from emotional relapse into mental relapse.  What will change?  What will the caver change to recognize when he/she is in emotional relapse and GTFO?  Nothing changes, if nothing changes.

[SRains918]

The Three Questions

Now that I've been here 33 days, I've noticed a few more cavers, and my understanding of caving has increased proportionally.  (For those of you who are wondering, I'm not preparing my own cave, I'm digging my "quit hole" a bit deeper, and hoping to help some of the cavers understand why the wheels fell off their quit.)

So, after you cave, you come back here, and are presented with the demand to answer the "three questions".  Before you do that, you should answer one question for yourself: "Why the fock are you here, knowing how much shite you are going to face for caving?"  I can't help you answer this one.  You know why you're here, and what you are going to face.

However, knowing that the general gist of your answer is that you need this place in order to quit, I suggest that you take an attitude of humble receptiveness in your re-assimilation into KTC.  You are going to give answers to the "three questions".  More likely than not, some of your answers will be questioned.  Do not take offense at this (even when offense is intended).  Most of us addicts can sniff out an addicts lie or misrepresentation, and we will be all over it.  So consider the merits of each question.  Search yourself for vulnerabilities, and shore them up.

Now that you have "humbled yourself up", here are some reflections that may help you answer the three questions:

1. What happened?  This can be rephrased as "How did you set yourself up for failure?".  When you cave, you build the scenario in which it is very easy to say "yes" to nicotine.  The answer to this question sets up the answer to the next question.

2. Why did it happen?  Depending on the addict, you can set yourself up for failure 10 times before you actually cave.  The key word here is addict.  The short answer is "I'm an addict, that's what addicts do."  The long answer is much more complicated, and different for every cave.  The answer to this question is the key to getting back on the quit.  However, you can't get here without answering the first question first.

Being addicted to nicotine is like having a pipeline to your body, with a valve that is "normally open".  Nicotine flows through this valve and into your body unless you consciously or unconsciously keep this valve shut.  When you cave, you make a decision, at that particular moment, to let go of the valve.

So the answer to "why" is not "what made you do it?", it's "why did you let go of the valve?"  "why did you decide, at that particular moment, not to be quit?"  Don't look outside yourself for this answer.  Shite happens to all of us.  It's how we decide to react to this shite that makes us who we are. 

We are addicts.  We have to study addiction and addicts to know how to answer this question.

3. How are you going to keep it from happening again?  Once you get past the second question, and understand your answer and your addiction, this one is pretty easy.  Look at the tools you have at your disposal.  Find out what other tools are out there that may be used.  Figure out where you are most vulnerable, make plans not to make yourself vulnerable, and have an escape route when you find yourself vulnerable.  That's the general answer.  The specific answer for each cave must be tailored to each individual.

We are all just one bad, weak decision away from caving.  This is addiction.  This is serious.

[SRains918]

Irish had a shitload of amazing quit info in his old intro on Tapa. I've wanted to keep track of it, so I'm going to move some of his intro wisom here into mine.

PLEASE UNDERSTAND THAT I AM NOT TAKING CREDIT FOR THIS NOR DO INTEND FOR ANYONE TO THINK THIS IS MINE

My plan at the moment is to simply quote his posts on Tapa, copy it (including the quote info) and paste it here...


EDIT - I'm in the process of editing the formatting to make it look better on SMF. Once that's complete I'll start fixing the broken links to point to anything that's been migrated to SMF or to the Archive located at Tapatalk.

[Broccoli-saurus]

And that was exactly how that convo went to the letter!  I was deep in some of my own shit, but always have time to remind my friends of the pain that was and the pain that will be.  There's no excuse to cave, and I don't feel like you were going to cave.  If you were that far into it, you'd better have called.  You've got this man.  You're so strong that it's ok to break it down now and then.  Makes you human.  Just never go back, not for any reason. 

And toward the tail end of that convo which wrapped off and on into the next day I get this:

"390 and QLFWYT Just in case you were curious"

To which I responded "I wasn't".  That wasn't callous.  I trust you man and you know that all you have to do is call me.  I'll always be in your corner as you've been in mine.  These are difficult times in your life for sure, but not insurmountable.  Keep your head up bro. 

[SRains918]

It's kind of strange. I remember that I had such high hopes for my intro. Man, I was going to post in it almost daily so I could get my thoughts down. Document my struggles. Celebrate my wins. That kind of thing. A daily diary of my quit journey.

That didn't happen... 

Here I am again though. I do still try to put the big ones in here...

**************************************************

What a crappy week. Many of you know that I lost my grandfather at the end of last week. That man is the single largest influence on my life, the most intelligent person I've ever met, and someone I've always known I can count on unfailingly. He was awake and completely normal on Monday, and never woke up after he fell asleep. He died two days later, in his sleep, with my grandmother holding his hand and surrounded by family.

He was 102 though. It wasn't a great shock. Over the course of the last 19 years since my son was born I have treated every holiday like it could potentially be their last and made sure to spend it with them. While my mom was living in Israel (the last seven years or so, until recently), I hauled my laptop to them every other weekend so they could Skype with my mom and visit with my son and I. My grandfather lived a very long, very full life and I'm at peace with his passing.

My grandmother is struggling, obviously. They would have been married 73 years the first week of November. She has dementia and Alzheimer's which makes it INCREDIBLY difficult on her as well as the rest of us. She forgets he died. She remembers he died. She wakes up and doesn't know where he is. She wakes up and remembers that she's alone. She's outlived everyone on her side of the family by a good 6-8 years because she needed to take care of her husband. Her work is complete. I expect that her remaining time with us will be short.

Which brings us to yesterday. Sitting at work. Minding my own business. Probably on KTC, I always seem to be on KTC, when my mom calls. She was on her way to see my grandmother and has a flat. I asked about roadside, she said she didn't have it. My son was getting ready to leave (we work together a couple days a week) so I asked him if he'd swing by and change it. No problem he said, and off he went... About 45 minutes later I headed toward home and called to see how things were going. He was struggling with the tire. FUCK! Now I have to head over, and it's a good 30-40 minutes in the other direction...

This is probably a good time to mention that I fucked my back up a few weeks ago (the week before the AZ meat-up). I'd mostly recovered, but keep tweaking it over the last couple weeks and just can't shake it (which is weird, because it's not like I have any stress in my life or anything)... So, now my throbbing achy lower back get to change a tire...

I get there and my kid is sitting there. He's got her car up in the air. He's got all five lug nuts off. No dice. Bullshit. C'mon kid. It's a freaking tire. Pull it off.

Nope.

I'm old AF. I've NEVER met a tire I couldn't change. I did it for a living at the end of HS and beginning of college. I used to make more money street racing than I did at work, and I built all my own shit. Would. Not. Fucking. Budge. Now, I've come across some rims that were stuck to hubs before, but never like this. I beat that sucker from the inside with a rubber hammer. I literally sat on the ground and alternated kicking the tire on either side to break it loose. No dice. Now my back is hurting so much that I'm pretty close to the point of involuntary tears, and if I try to hit this thing any harder I'm going to knock it off the jack.

So, I put it all back together. Lower it to the ground. Back all the lug nuts off a couple turns, and have her drive it back and forth 30-40 feet a couple times. Surely that'll break it free, right? The weight of the car HAS to be enough to break it free.

Nope.

Have I mentioned yet that I hadn't eaten since breakfast and that I'm a complete ASS when I'm hungry? Well, now it's getting dark and late and I'm no closer to having it taken care of.

And then mom says "Hey, I actually DO have roadside. Should I call them?"

It took everything I had at this point to not lose my shit.

So, she called roadside assistance. She explained that she had a flat, that we were unable to break it loose even though we'd been able to get all the lug nuts off, we didn't think they'd be able to change it, and that she needed a tow truck. They gave us an ETA of 45 minutes...

An hour and a half later, some kid pulls up in a pickup. Not a tow truck. A pickup. He's a tiny little thing (so, normal sized to you) and I just laugh. There's no WAY you're going to get that tire off kid. Where's the tow truck? No tow truck he says, I'm here to change the tire.

After a few minutes of dicking around he comes to the same conclusion. That tire is NOT coming off. We'll have to call insurance back and get ANOTHER person to come out. As some of you may have noticed, I'm not very patient sometimes. At this point I'm tired, I'm hungry, I've got to piss so bad I can feel it in my teeth, I've been fighting with this fucking tire for the last three or more hours and the 12 year old kid that came out tells me we need to call them back.

That didn't go well. He was not very happy when he left. I'm pretty sure he'll talk about me when they ask him why he went back to school to do something less physical with his life. I don't think he cried, but I bet he was close...

Now it's dark. On the side of the road. Three of us have tried and failed to CHANGE THIS FUCKING TIRE. My mom gets BACK on the phone with her insurance. Explains it, again. Another 45-50 minutes... FML

My mom and Patty decide that they're going to run over to my grandmothers to pick up the DVD she was on her way to get in the first place. I'm pretty sure part of it was to find a safe quiet place away from me...

After they took off - BAM!!! The biggest fucking crave I've had in a long time. Not just a crave, I heard "just one. No one has to know. You'll feel so much better". On top of that, my mouth started watering HARD in anticipation. Scared the shit out of me. I texted Broc right away:

Me - "I'm not going to so you don't have to call (and I can't answer) but I want a dip so bad my mouth is watering... Fuck"
Broc - "I will weld a spike onto my steel toe and fly my ass to az to visit you"
Me - "You'll have to check them. I'm not gonna. Just struggling right now"
Broc - "I'll drive then"

Quick. To the point.


The 2nd tow truck finally showed up an hour later. He didn't even TRY to change it once I explained what was wrong. They got it up on the flatbed and on it's way to her mechanic, and I drove my mom home 45-50 minutes the OTHER direction.

This started at 3:30 or so. I finally got home at 9:30. I lost to a fucking tire, but not to that bitch.

[Croakenhagen]

Congrats on 365 days, SRains! Thank you for paying it forward and helping out not only me but so many other new quitters. You do not realize how much it means to all of us. Cheers, brother, and here's to many, many more years of quit!

[SRains918]

Day 365

Holy SHIT. I cannot believe how fast (and at times how slow) the last year has gone. I've had struggles and victories, ups and downs, funks, rages, anxiety, and wonderful times with friends and family I'd forgotten could be spent without crap in my mouth or sneaking off to get that fix. Through it all my KTC brethren have been here to support me and help me through it. There are far too many folks to single out and I'm not even going to try because I don't want to accidentally leave someone out, but please know that I appreciate the impact you've ALL had on my quit.

If you're reading this while you're trying to figure out whether or not it's time, just spit that crap out. Take that step. Now. Get registered with the site. Find your quit group. Post that Day 1 promise and don't look back. It's going to be one of the most difficult things you'll ever do, and every single struggle will be worth it. I was YOU a year ago. I took that step. If I can make it, so can you!

One year down for me. A lifetime to go. I will continue to WUPP and harass as many of you as I can. It works. ODAAFT works.

[SRains918]

Day 342

It's been a while since I've posted in here. It's actually kind of ironic considering that I've told at least 4-5 people in the last week to make sure they're posting and documenting stuff into their Intro so they can find it easily later. Even though I haven't done that as steadily as I've liked so far, re-reading it now brought back so many good (and bad) memories and reminders of what I've been through over the last 342 days...

I've been in a bit of a funk for a little while. I get so hardcore for a time (posting in 26 groups and a shitload of texts) and then scale back so much (posting in 4 groups and a handful of texts). I still haven't (and won't) miss roll. I'm not really sure why I'm posting it here now other than to try to explain why I have been going through active and less active periods from time to time. I'll never stray too far...

I've heard from a few people that this is a normal funk time (330-350 day range). I do know that I've noticed that milestones seem to be rough sometimes. Right around 200. Right around 300. I'm expecting another one right around a year and then again around 400. It's a reasonable trade-off though. I poisoned myself for 31+ years. I don't think I get to complain too much about a rough patch here and there, particularly when life has improved so much over the last 342 days. The stretches in between rough spots continue to get longer, and I think that means I'm still headed the right direction.

I don't really have a whole lot else to say at this point. It just seemed like a good opportunity to take the advice I've been giving - "Document it in your intro"

Right there with you brother.
This all seems so familiar
I would like to post in 22 groups a day (used to be 42, now around 5)
I would like to text all 125 numbers in my phone daily and initiate each text contact (normal now is respond to everyone who sends me a text, as the list has gotten too big)
Like you, I have not missed roll yet and have no intentions of missing any time soon.
My intro was a lot more detailed early on and I sometimes find myself posting there just to have something fresh in there rather than because I had something important to say
Keep doing what you are doing, its obviously working for you and you help a ton of people
I'll quit with you any day brother
Carry On

I can’t remember if I told you or not…but that first year had many up and downs.  The second year was almost all good.  I had some moments that tested me but it was easily dealt with since I posted roll.  This third year has been awesome.  I can’t remember my last real craving or funk.  

Post roll each day and whatever time or energy you have is a bonus.  Don’t beat yourself up if you can’t be hardcore all the time.  I too go in and out of these spells.  Nothing wrong with it at all.  Take care of yourself first…

[SRains918]

Day 342

It's been a while since I've posted in here. It's actually kind of ironic considering that I've told at least 4-5 people in the last week to make sure they're posting and documenting stuff into their Intro so they can find it easily later. Even though I haven't done that as steadily as I've liked so far, re-reading it now brought back so many good (and bad) memories and reminders of what I've been through over the last 342 days...

I've been in a bit of a funk for a little while. I get so hardcore for a time (posting in 26 groups and a shitload of texts) and then scale back so much (posting in 4 groups and a handful of texts). I still haven't (and won't) miss roll. I'm not really sure why I'm posting it here now other than to try to explain why I have been going through active and less active periods from time to time. I'll never stray too far...

I've heard from a few people that this is a normal funk time (330-350 day range). I do know that I've noticed that milestones seem to be rough sometimes. Right around 200. Right around 300. I'm expecting another one right around a year and then again around 400. It's a reasonable trade-off though. I poisoned myself for 31+ years. I don't think I get to complain too much about a rough patch here and there, particularly when life has improved so much over the last 342 days. The stretches in between rough spots continue to get longer, and I think that means I'm still headed the right direction.

I don't really have a whole lot else to say at this point. It just seemed like a good opportunity to take the advice I've been giving - "Document it in your intro"

Right there with you brother.
This all seems so familiar
I would like to post in 22 groups a day (used to be 42, now around 5)
I would like to text all 125 numbers in my phone daily and initiate each text contact (normal now is respond to everyone who sends me a text, as the list has gotten too big)
Like you, I have not missed roll yet and have no intentions of missing any time soon.
My intro was a lot more detailed early on and I sometimes find myself posting there just to have something fresh in there rather than because I had something important to say
Keep doing what you are doing, its obviously working for you and you help a ton of people
I'll quit with you any day brother
Carry On

[SRains918]

9/5/18 @ 11:53

Day 342

It's been a while since I've posted in here. It's actually kind of ironic considering that I've told at least 4-5 people in the last week to make sure they're posting and documenting stuff into their Intro so they can find it easily later. Even though I haven't done that as steadily as I've liked so far, re-reading it now brought back so many good (and bad) memories and reminders of what I've been through over the last 342 days...

I've been in a bit of a funk for a little while. I get so hardcore for a time (posting in 26 groups and a shitload of texts) and then scale back so much (posting in 4 groups and a handful of texts). I still haven't (and won't) miss roll. I'm not really sure why I'm posting it here now other than to try to explain why I have been going through active and less active periods from time to time. I'll never stray too far...

I've heard from a few people that this is a normal funk time (330-350 day range). I do know that I've noticed that milestones seem to be rough sometimes. Right around 200. Right around 300. I'm expecting another one right around a year and then again around 400. It's a reasonable trade-off though. I poisoned myself for 31+ years. I don't think I get to complain too much about a rough patch here and there, particularly when life has improved so much over the last 342 days. The stretches in between rough spots continue to get longer, and I think that means I'm still headed the right direction.

I don't really have a whole lot else to say at this point. It just seemed like a good opportunity to take the advice I've been giving - "Document it in your intro"

[SRains918]

Steve,
Great work on 300.  And I say "work" because I know that's what it is.  Although I was there when you started, you've helped to solidify my quit as well, probably more than you know.  Get ready for another 300 daily texts.
Dave DBA FISHFLORIDA

[SRains918]

Congrats my brother, you are a huge part of my quit.... now.... and for years to come.

Damn proud of you sir.

[SRains918]

Congratulations Steve.
You do a lot for KTC, and it doesn't go unnoticed.
Thank you sir!