Almost there... Quit Date Dec 31st 2013

[Its_Got2Happen]

I'm have been running through what to say or how to respond to everyone, I'm not following a strategy to post roll and stay silent.I'm not trying to think of what is the right thing to say, or figure out what you want to hear. I don't know what to say because I feel I have no right to speak to any of you, but many of you clearly want a response. I have no case to argue. Not one of you has said anything I disagree with.

You are all correct. I chose to cave and lie about it, for seven days. I am completely unworthy of your trust. My entire life dipping was a lie. Only 5 people ever knew I dipped. I dipped for 2 years before my wife caught me for the 1st time. My cave was the same extreme dishonesty.

These last 4 days have been hell, but I deserve every second of it. In the supreme selfishness of my choices and dishonesty, I never once considered how much this would effect anyone else. I am overwhelmed by how many people I have hurt, and how many quits I have shaken. I have betrayed all of you and this brotherhood. How can I possibly apologize? I cannot express the remorse I feel for this.

When I chose to cave and to lie about it, I completely cut myself off from all support. I think the only redeeming factor that I can ask you to consider in your decision to allow me to stay here, is that I alone made the choice to come clean. I did not get caught. I didn't have any help. I was falling back into the void of addiction and death. I chose honesty and life. I had to do it alone. It took every scrap of my integrity, and it was the hardest thing I can ever remember doing.

That being said I am just one person. I will not risk further damaging this brotherhood or anyone's quit. I have only remained because I desperately want to stay quit. I tasted success every day for 42 days. I know what is possible and I will not give that up. The admins have not stepped in, but this is between me and each of you. To this point I feel the majority of you want me gone. If the majority of you can not abide me posting roll, and quitting here. I will not post again. I don't expect much support but I ask that you not purposely fight against me. I am unworthy of your trust and support, but for what it's worth, I promise today, and I will promise every day to never lie on this site, or to any of you again.

I do not want you to leave. I want you to remain quit. Staying here is your best chance. You stacked the deck against yourself and violated some serious trust. Many people will not forgive you. I don't blame them. They take their quits seriously and your actions harmed the very foundation of this site.

I forgive you. I forgive you because I am you. My addiction also made me a liar. I lied to my wife, my kids, my co-workers, my doctor, my dentist. I did anything and everything I could do to get my fix. I stayed at work late. I left ballgames and weddings early. I brought a spit bottle to Seasame street live. I read my kids speed books. I missed church. I even slept on the couch 100s of times just to get that last dip in. I put my addiction above everything in my life. Then I found this place.

You did not harm my quit, you strengthened it. You reminded me of what a selfish liar I used to be when I served the god of nicotine. You reminded me that we wrestle with a formidable opponent. I am nearing 400 days quit but even today I must remind myself that I am no closer to failure, (or success) than I was on day 4 or day 40. Addiction is forever. We fight this battle one day at a time. If you have promised not to use nicotine today NP, than I quit with you.

[NeonPanther]

I'm have been running through what to say or how to respond to everyone, I'm not following a strategy to post roll and stay silent.I'm not trying to think of what is the right thing to say, or figure out what you want to hear. I don't know what to say because I feel I have no right to speak to any of you, but many of you clearly want a response. I have no case to argue. Not one of you has said anything I disagree with.

You are all correct. I chose to cave and lie about it, for seven days. I am completely unworthy of your trust. My entire life dipping was a lie. Only 5 people ever knew I dipped. I dipped for 2 years before my wife caught me for the 1st time. My cave was the same extreme dishonesty.

These last 4 days have been hell, but I deserve every second of it. In the supreme selfishness of my choices and dishonesty, I never once considered how much this would effect anyone else. I am overwhelmed by how many people I have hurt, and how many quits I have shaken. I have betrayed all of you and this brotherhood. How can I possibly apologize? I cannot express the remorse I feel for this.

When I chose to cave and to lie about it, I completely cut myself off from all support. I think the only redeeming factor that I can ask you to consider in your decision to allow me to stay here, is that I alone made the choice to come clean. I did not get caught. I didn't have any help. I was falling back into the void of addiction and death. I chose honesty and life. I had to do it alone. It took every scrap of my integrity, and it was the hardest thing I can ever remember doing.

That being said I am just one person. I will not risk further damaging this brotherhood or anyone's quit. I have only remained because I desperately want to stay quit. I tasted success every day for 42 days. I know what is possible and I will not give that up. The admins have not stepped in, but this is between me and each of you. To this point I feel the majority of you want me gone. If the majority of you can not abide me posting roll, and quitting here. I will not post again. I don't expect much support but I ask that you not purposely fight against me. I am unworthy of your trust and support, but for what it's worth, I promise today, and I will promise every day to never lie on this site, or to any of you again.

[Its_Got2Happen]

I don't feel Neon should be offered a pass just because he is being quiet posting roll and is sorry. The long winded apology sounded to me like the same one I gave time and time again when I said I was going to quit then went ninja but that was prior to me joining the site. When I joined the site it was clear to me what was expected of me. Posting roll while nicotine is coursing through your veins is not acceptable. I know this is not my decision just my .02

Brotherhood + accountability = success

Keeping quiet makes it difficult to build brotherhood. Part of this site, part of building a toolbox, is building a team forward and backward. So, quitting in a vacuum seems unorthodox to this site.

Chewing while posting makes it difficult to know if any future postings are real or masked by nicotine. Can you be trusted? How could this be answered with a "yes?" The fabric of this site is trust. A chain of very strong links of trust. I can't have any weak links in my chain neon. I just can't - this fight is too hard. This behavior is detrimental to the core values of success on ktc. It is detrimental to my quit. And I cannot support it.

Success without these traits is not possible on this site. I am surprised there has not been a more vocal outpouring of concern about your actions this week. Because I, a pretty calm member that types in the intros frequently, am mad as hell that you lied to us for a week and are now taking a quiet approach, while other members that have done the exact same thing felt a fury of anger when they fessed up. I understand why you are being passive, but I don't support your earlier actions or passive approach now.

Low, very low and obviously dishonorable. Addiction is a nasty beast. Addiction can turn people into liars, cheaters, and thieves. Addiction evens leads some to murder. Let us not forget what we are dealing with here. Nicotine is every bit as addictive as meth, crack, heroin and so on. Neon Panther committed a very dishonorable act and spit in the face of this site and all of its members. I completely understand the anger, frustration and disappointment.

HOWEVER.......................................................

He then did the honorable thing and admitted to it. He has taken full responsibility and accountability for his actions. He seeks forgiveness and a second chance. He could have disappeared and started a new account. He didnt. And that says something. There is a guy deep down that wants to change. As they say, most addicts must hit a real "low" before they can finally make a change and turn things around.

Panther, I hope this is that bottom for you. I don't know you, but I know your struggle. I do know one other thing, you have lost the support of some powerhouse quitters and for that I feel sorry for you. They could have made your quit so much easier for you.

But all is not lost. Time has a funny way of healing things. Post roll religiously, and keep your word. If you don't have your word you dont have anything. These are not invisible strangers behind a screen name. These are men and women that struggle with the same addiction that you do. They are fighting right beside you, and some are willing to help you. Are you willing to help others? Helping is honorable. If you want to be a person of honor and intergrity, than make conscious daily efforts to do things that are honorable. Force it if you have to. Eventually, you can become the person you want to be.

One day at a time.

[traumagnet]

Hmmm 1045 to post roll Neon I don't know you are posting at all its great you are sorry and figured it out problem is you figured it out too late.

[Scowick65]

I love the passion in this thread. Quitters who take quitting seriously. I am glad every damn one of you that are disgusted with this crap are on my side. I quit today. I damn well mean it.

Invest your time wisely men. We have serious business ahead of us. The nic bitch does not stand a chance.

[worktowin]

I don't feel Neon should be offered a pass just because he is being quiet posting roll and is sorry. The long winded apology sounded to me like the same one I gave time and time again when I said I was going to quit then went ninja but that was prior to me joining the site. When I joined the site it was clear to me what was expected of me. Posting roll while nicotine is coursing through your veins is not acceptable. I know this is not my decision just my .02

Brotherhood + accountability = success

Keeping quiet makes it difficult to build brotherhood. Part of this site, part of building a toolbox, is building a team forward and backward. So, quitting in a vacuum seems unorthodox to this site.

Chewing while posting makes it difficult to know if any future postings are real or masked by nicotine. Can you be trusted? How could this be answered with a "yes?" The fabric of this site is trust. A chain of very strong links of trust. I can't have any weak links in my chain neon. I just can't - this fight is too hard. This behavior is detrimental to the core values of success on ktc. It is detrimental to my quit. And I cannot support it.

Success without these traits is not possible on this site. I am surprised there has not been a more vocal outpouring of concern about your actions this week. Because I, a pretty calm member that types in the intros frequently, am mad as hell that you lied to us for a week and are now taking a quiet approach, while other members that have done the exact same thing felt a fury of anger when they fessed up. I understand why you are being passive, but I don't support your earlier actions or passive approach now.

[traumagnet]

I don't feel Neon should be offered a pass just because he is being quiet posting roll and is sorry. The long winded apology sounded to me like the same one I gave time and time again when I said I was going to quit then went ninja but that was prior to me joining the site. When I joined the site it was clear to me what was expected of me. Posting roll while nicotine is coursing through your veins is not acceptable. I know this is not my decision just my .02

[SirDerek]

I have waited on responding to this issue but at the call of a couple of other quitters I feel compelled to weigh in at this time.

Quitting Nicotine is one of the hardest thing we need to do as a human. Therefore in order to quit one must have the mental make up to follow a process in order to complete the task. This process includes going through the physical withdraws, dealing with all of the symptoms (sometimes real other times imagined) and mind games that occur.

Now we try and educate those who want to quit by telling them our stories. By giving them all that we know, showing them what we went through, whether in picture or in word. This is done in our hopes that it gets through to the person wanting to quit and becomes a part of the make up. I believe this was starting to infuse into the one in this thread.

Caving - ok it did happen. This is not the issue. It happened and it looks like the 3 questions to educate oneself and to have it in paper to help others was done. Again we are human fighting a life or death situation so repeating this is not the issue.

The issue is more so directed to the other parts of the make up of this person and the one, what I consider the highest, rule for this site....and that is the lack of honor displayed for 1 week as a user was posting that he was not using. This to me goes against all things in a person. If one cannot hold one's own Integrity in such a way where he has to lie to others, well to me that person does have deeper issues than just quitting nicotine and may have to look at other different places to help in all that is needed.

I know this has occurred before and there were actions taken against said members. I also know that each situation may be seen as different by the leadership. And I believe this issue is under discussion at this time (if not it probably should be as to its effect on the membership and the basis for the site).

that is all for this matter that I will say at this time.

[ccauley86]

I don't want to pile on you, the veterans are doing just fine giving you the ass whupping you deserve, but I just want to say, as a member of March  your former quit group, that, for me, it really just sucks to see this.

We've had a few other cavers in our group, every group has them, but you were one of the stalwarts, you were farther on than I am.... it's hard to explain, but it's much easier to see someone cave that wasn't as far along as you then it is to see someone with more days under their belt..... It's pretty fucking scary to be honest with you.

So, your cave shook my confidence but at the same time, it fed my resolve, I won't let this happen to me.

I'll miss you posting roll with the Iron Men, Neon. I wish you the best  hope that you can get your shit together  QUIT, not just stop. I'll be here if you need anything.

Jeff

Ditto

[worktowin]

Just had a chance to read this recent thread. My first reaction...there's this guy, Worktowin, who posts every day in the supporters section, "Quitting with NeonPanther and Jake Frawley." He never quits with anybody else, just those 2 guys, every damn day. Today it's just Jake Frawley. I felt really bad for Worktowin, he really was quitting hard with you. Then I recalled an earlier post from Doug P, a fellow former March quitter who caved. He came right out and said it...he caved. Didn't lie, didn't post roll while lying. Yea, he got some crap, but, he's back on the kool-aid and we're quitting with him.

What I don't get is how one CHOOSES to lie for 7 days in a row. I think you had the most supporters on the roll call every day, and you lied to them, March, and yourself 7 days in a row. Reconcile this piece. How will you be true to yourself, family, friends, KTC every damn day? How will you do that differently? You mention god, but what are you going to do...You. Get back on the train, earn our respect back, and over time maybe some of those people who quit with you every day will quit with you again. Maybe they won't, but at least you'll have a true quit for yourself.

Steak, just read your note and started to send you a pm, but hopefully neon will see this and it will trigger reflection. Because, contrary to popular belief, he did not call every member of his contact list. Thanks to the miracle of caller ID, I can see no Nevada calls on my phone this week. And we've texted several times.

First, don't worry about me. My track record of picking quitters to support that are men of their word is pretty high. A couple have caved and come back, including Jake. Those caves sting... as those of us that have bought into this site and it's values really hate to see people go down a path of destruction. That being said, this is the first person I've supported that caved and lied.

About 400 days ago there is little doubt that I was headed toward a heart attack. Plus, I was utterly miserable, living a sham. On paper, my life looked pretty sweet; in reality I was miserable. I joined this site and went all in, and am a different, happier, healthier man than I was a year ago.

In the process, I have made friends all over the us. Men and women that are the real deal - a common theme is that addicts go all in on everything we do. Some of the most quality people I've ever encountered in life have been through this site. I post every day with about 20 men, and the thought of letting them down makes me sick. The thought of lying to them for 7 days is unimaginable and inexplicable. I've met a half dozen in person and can't imagine letting them down. Planning a trip to Vegas and was gonna invite neon for a drink or dinner. My schedule just opened up.

Neon had many, many of my contacts, and mine in his phone. He chose to pretend to buy into accountability brotherhood  success for over a week and lie to us for a week. Today I quit just as hard as I do every day, but... One of the first posts in my thread from a man that hits 500 tomorrow was "I'll quit with you but I don't need any weakness in my quit". Take care of yourself first - and beware if any weakness. Betrayal stings, but there is a lesson we can all learn from these situations.

Good luck neon.

[cbird65]

Moving on - unless you guys just like to rubber neck at gory accidents on the side of the road - this site is about honor and integrity which are obviously missing from a couple of ''cavers' recently

[Steakbomb18]

Just had a chance to read this recent thread. My first reaction...there's this guy, Worktowin, who posts every day in the supporters section, "Quitting with NeonPanther and Jake Frawley." He never quits with anybody else, just those 2 guys, every damn day. Today it's just Jake Frawley. I felt really bad for Worktowin, he really was quitting hard with you. Then I recalled an earlier post from Doug P, a fellow former March quitter who caved. He came right out and said it...he caved. Didn't lie, didn't post roll while lying. Yea, he got some crap, but, he's back on the kool-aid and we're quitting with him.

What I don't get is how one CHOOSES to lie for 7 days in a row. I think you had the most supporters on the roll call every day, and you lied to them, March, and yourself 7 days in a row. Reconcile this piece. How will you be true to yourself, family, friends, KTC every damn day? How will you do that differently? You mention god, but what are you going to do...You. Get back on the train, earn our respect back, and over time maybe some of those people who quit with you every day will quit with you again. Maybe they won't, but at least you'll have a true quit for yourself.

[luby]

Well rickddd the one u were referring to has made his statement he caved and yes it sucked but he did not post roll while using. Mr neon I couldn't read all the way through your full post it wreaked of addict speak the same addict speak I used in the past when I got busted for dipping by my loved ones. I found this site 283 days ago and got a crash course in tobacco 101 the same one that is offered to every new quitter here some get it offered by rougher vets some by softer point is if you do nothing w the teachings then you are not quit u are just stopped. IMO you have not transformed yourself you just hid in plain sight your spots came through when you got pushed. We all have our stories we all have our issues but those that know me here know I have remained quit through some of the biggest obstacles I have ever faced know why because I am here doing it the KTC way. Giving our promise and posting roll is the corner stone of the site our word with that is sacred. Caves rattle people even those w the strongest resolve but lying about being quit and posting roll is not tolerated. A person who does that cheapens the site and endangers others who may be quit but haven't gotten a complete handle on it. Same way a cancer cell starts the cell gets mutated and effects others around it and poof full blown cancerous mass that needs to be cut out. I know this site and I know admin and the mods are looking at this thread and I don't envy their position they will do what's right I will respect it.

As for u Mr Neon you prolly should get a check up from the neck up. I also hope that this incident has rocked you to the core and you now see what addiction is even though your poison is legal.
Trauma out

X2 every word posted above.

Read Grizzhasclaws post below.... "This makes me wonder how many liars are posting roll on a daily basis."

Using and posting roll eats at the fabric of this site.

I believe there should be zero tolerance for this.

We are a web based community. If your word at roll is no good... then this site is no good.

If it were up to me... I would wish you good luck in your quit elsewhere.

I agree with Derk. Roll is sacred, when I put my word down that is my pledge to everyone else that they can count on me when I see my brothers quit I know I don't have to do it alone, violate that by using while postings, violates everything that matters.
Neonpanther I want you quit, but I'm sorry to say it should not be here.

[JayDubya]

Well rickddd the one u were referring to has made his statement he caved and yes it sucked but he did not post roll while using. Mr neon I couldn't read all the way through your full post it wreaked of addict speak the same addict speak I used in the past when I got busted for dipping by my loved ones. I found this site 283 days ago and got a crash course in tobacco 101 the same one that is offered to every new quitter here some get it offered by rougher vets some by softer point is if you do nothing w the teachings then you are not quit u are just stopped. IMO you have not transformed yourself you just hid in plain sight your spots came through when you got pushed. We all have our stories we all have our issues but those that know me here know I have remained quit through some of the biggest obstacles I have ever faced know why because I am here doing it the KTC way. Giving our promise and posting roll is the corner stone of the site our word with that is sacred. Caves rattle people even those w the strongest resolve but lying about being quit and posting roll is not tolerated. A person who does that cheapens the site and endangers others who may be quit but haven't gotten a complete handle on it. Same way a cancer cell starts the cell gets mutated and effects others around it and poof full blown cancerous mass that needs to be cut out. I know this site and I know admin and the mods are looking at this thread and I don't envy their position they will do what's right I will respect it.

As for u Mr Neon you prolly should get a check up from the neck up. I also hope that this incident has rocked you to the core and you now see what addiction is even though your poison is legal.
Trauma out

X2 every word posted above.

Read Grizzhasclaws post below.... "This makes me wonder how many liars are posting roll on a daily basis."

Using and posting roll eats at the fabric of this site.

I believe there should be zero tolerance for this.

We are a web based community. If your word at roll is no good... then this site is no good.

If it were up to me... I would wish you good luck in your quit elsewhere.

Not trying over step my bounds, but to add to it, this is a quote from doc2quitforgood: "These are the only times I can remember ever thinking about caving."

[Derk40]

Well rickddd the one u were referring to has made his statement he caved and yes it sucked but he did not post roll while using. Mr neon I couldn't read all the way through your full post it wreaked of addict speak the same addict speak I used in the past when I got busted for dipping by my loved ones. I found this site 283 days ago and got a crash course in tobacco 101 the same one that is offered to every new quitter here some get it offered by rougher vets some by softer point is if you do nothing w the teachings then you are not quit u are just stopped. IMO you have not transformed yourself you just hid in plain sight your spots came through when you got pushed. We all have our stories we all have our issues but those that know me here know I have remained quit through some of the biggest obstacles I have ever faced know why because I am here doing it the KTC way. Giving our promise and posting roll is the corner stone of the site our word with that is sacred. Caves rattle people even those w the strongest resolve but lying about being quit and posting roll is not tolerated. A person who does that cheapens the site and endangers others who may be quit but haven't gotten a complete handle on it. Same way a cancer cell starts the cell gets mutated and effects others around it and poof full blown cancerous mass that needs to be cut out. I know this site and I know admin and the mods are looking at this thread and I don't envy their position they will do what's right I will respect it.

As for u Mr Neon you prolly should get a check up from the neck up. I also hope that this incident has rocked you to the core and you now see what addiction is even though your poison is legal.
Trauma out

X2 every word posted above.

Read Grizzhasclaws post below.... "This makes me wonder how many liars are posting roll on a daily basis."

Using and posting roll eats at the fabric of this site.

I believe there should be zero tolerance for this.

We are a web based community. If your word at roll is no good... then this site is no good.

If it were up to me... I would wish you good luck in your quit elsewhere.