Withdrawal sux

[Grizzly25]

Day 668

I was saddened to learn that a guy that I grew up with passed away last night, He was 46, one year older than I am. He left a wife and two children. He predeceased his own mother and father.  Cause of death was officially a heart attack, although I am quite sure the 6 or so year battle with throat cancer and the associated chemo, operations, and radiation were the major cause.

Our paths to addiction ran parallel: We both started to use dip at about the same time.... about 10 years old or thereabouts. We both dipped in sports, at boy scouts, at our respective Jobs (even those were similar- both of us worked for utility companies. There was a difference of when we quit, however.... As far as I know, he quit chewing about 6 years ago, when he was diagnosed with Throat Cancer.  I Continued to dip another 4 years. For him, his quit came to late.  For me, time will tell.

This hits close to home, really close.  It could have just as easily have been my family making funeral arrangements. It could have been my kids with tears in their eyes... It could have been my wife, left alone by my singularly selfish addiction.  It could have been my father, burying a second son in less than a year. Sobering, to say the least.

Never Again.

I am sorry for your loss. Prayers for his family.

Sorry about you loss. Prayers go out.

So sorry to hear about your friends' suffering and your loss.

Very sorry for your loss brother....

[30isEnuff]

Day 668

I was saddened to learn that a guy that I grew up with passed away last night, He was 46, one year older than I am. He left a wife and two children. He predeceased his own mother and father.  Cause of death was officially a heart attack, although I am quite sure the 6 or so year battle with throat cancer and the associated chemo, operations, and radiation were the major cause.

Our paths to addiction ran parallel: We both started to use dip at about the same time.... about 10 years old or thereabouts. We both dipped in sports, at boy scouts, at our respective Jobs (even those were similar- both of us worked for utility companies. There was a difference of when we quit, however.... As far as I know, he quit chewing about 6 years ago, when he was diagnosed with Throat Cancer.  I Continued to dip another 4 years. For him, his quit came to late.  For me, time will tell.

This hits close to home, really close.  It could have just as easily have been my family making funeral arrangements. It could have been my kids with tears in their eyes... It could have been my wife, left alone by my singularly selfish addiction.  It could have been my father, burying a second son in less than a year. Sobering, to say the least.

Never Again.

I am sorry for your loss. Prayers for his family.

Sorry about you loss. Prayers go out.

So sorry to hear about your friends' suffering and your loss.

[RAZD611]

Day 668

I was saddened to learn that a guy that I grew up with passed away last night, He was 46, one year older than I am. He left a wife and two children. He predeceased his own mother and father.  Cause of death was officially a heart attack, although I am quite sure the 6 or so year battle with throat cancer and the associated chemo, operations, and radiation were the major cause.

Our paths to addiction ran parallel: We both started to use dip at about the same time.... about 10 years old or thereabouts. We both dipped in sports, at boy scouts, at our respective Jobs (even those were similar- both of us worked for utility companies. There was a difference of when we quit, however.... As far as I know, he quit chewing about 6 years ago, when he was diagnosed with Throat Cancer.  I Continued to dip another 4 years. For him, his quit came to late.  For me, time will tell.

This hits close to home, really close.  It could have just as easily have been my family making funeral arrangements. It could have been my kids with tears in their eyes... It could have been my wife, left alone by my singularly selfish addiction.  It could have been my father, burying a second son in less than a year. Sobering, to say the least.

Never Again.

I am sorry for your loss. Prayers for his family.

Sorry about you loss. Prayers go out.

[916quit]

Day 668

I was saddened to learn that a guy that I grew up with passed away last night, He was 46, one year older than I am. He left a wife and two children. He predeceased his own mother and father. Cause of death was officially a heart attack, although I am quite sure the 6 or so year battle with throat cancer and the associated chemo, operations, and radiation were the major cause.

Our paths to addiction ran parallel: We both started to use dip at about the same time.... about 10 years old or thereabouts. We both dipped in sports, at boy scouts, at our respective Jobs (even those were similar- both of us worked for utility companies. There was a difference of when we quit, however.... As far as I know, he quit chewing about 6 years ago, when he was diagnosed with Throat Cancer. I Continued to dip another 4 years. For him, his quit came to late. For me, time will tell.

This hits close to home, really close. It could have just as easily have been my family making funeral arrangements. It could have been my kids with tears in their eyes... It could have been my wife, left alone by my singularly selfish addiction. It could have been my father, burying a second son in less than a year. Sobering, to say the least.

Never Again.

I am sorry for your loss. Prayers for his family.

[30yraddict]

Day 668

I was saddened to learn that a guy that I grew up with passed away last night, He was 46, one year older than I am. He left a wife and two children. He predeceased his own mother and father. Cause of death was officially a heart attack, although I am quite sure the 6 or so year battle with throat cancer and the associated chemo, operations, and radiation were the major cause.

Our paths to addiction ran parallel: We both started to use dip at about the same time.... about 10 years old or thereabouts. We both dipped in sports, at boy scouts, at our respective Jobs (even those were similar- both of us worked for utility companies. There was a difference of when we quit, however.... As far as I know, he quit chewing about 6 years ago, when he was diagnosed with Throat Cancer. I Continued to dip another 4 years. For him, his quit came to late. For me, time will tell.

This hits close to home, really close. It could have just as easily have been my family making funeral arrangements. It could have been my kids with tears in their eyes... It could have been my wife, left alone by my singularly selfish addiction. It could have been my father, burying a second son in less than a year.

I cannot take back 33 years of nicotine use. I cannot go back and time and quit 10, 20, 30 years ago. What I can do is Today. All the bickering, all the drama, and fighting, they don't matter. What matters is that I am quit today.

Never Again.

[dchogs]

So, I am really trying to figure this out.... When someone drifts, thinking that their quit is under control, they don't heed the warnings that are all over the site.  To me, it's not a smart decision, and it is rather reckless, but I suppose I can understand just a little how one could drift.  As I mentioned in a post below, I had to fight the urge to drift myself.

But what I just cannot get my brain around is people who drift with many days quit, cave, come back make it to the HOF again, and then drift AGAIN.

If you know someone like that, take a minute to contact them and tell them what a dumbass they are.... or just encourage them to make their way back.

Double drifter = dumbass. Word.

funny, i just PM'd sloop who has drifted. not sure if he technically "drifted" the first time, but he got complacent and thought he had the nic bitch by the cunt-hairs. this has been a major drift for him, though. 30+ days. i'm embarrassed to say that i just noticed.

[Notdeadyet]

So, I am really trying to figure this out.... When someone drifts, thinking that their quit is under control, they don't heed the warnings that are all over the site. To me, it's not a smart decision, and it is rather reckless, but I suppose I can understand just a little how one could drift. As I mentioned in a post below, I had to fight the urge to drift myself.

But what I just cannot get my brain around is people who drift with many days quit, cave, come back make it to the HOF again, and then drift AGAIN.

If you know someone like that, take a minute to contact them and tell them what a dumbass they are.... or just encourage them to make their way back.

Double drifter = dumbass. Word.

[30yraddict]

So, I am really trying to figure this out.... When someone drifts, thinking that their quit is under control, they don't heed the warnings that are all over the site. To me, it's not a smart decision, and it is rather reckless, but I suppose I can understand just a little how one could drift. As I mentioned in a post below, I had to fight the urge to drift myself.

But what I just cannot get my brain around is people who drift with many days quit, cave, come back make it to the HOF again, and then drift AGAIN.

If you know someone like that, take a minute to contact them and tell them what a dumbass they are.... or just encourage them to make their way back.

[wastepanel]

Bump cause 30 rules.

[30yraddict]

Just some unfinished random musings about the past 2-3 weeks in KTC land........

The past 2-3 weeks have seen some quitters come back and post up day 1's, quitters that were well past the HOF when they caved.  A couple of them drifted, a couple just suddenly threw their quits away.  Posting every day and suddenly, out of nowhere- a cave.

Well perhaps not "out of nowhere".  We talk quite a bit about the "planned cave" here.  But is their really a difference between someone who decides not to use their tools and chooses to cave suddenly and someone who drifts and then caves?  Surely being here for over 100 days would expose someone to enough cave stories to know the inherent risks of drifting away from the site?   Surely being here for that long would equip them enough to know that they have options when they are weak?  Did all of the numbers somehow get wiped off of their phone?  Did they forget how to google "KTC" to find this site again? Why did they ignore the countless stories of people drifting and then coming back with a day 1?  Were they all so arrogant as to think they were special, that they were immune to what had overtaken so many?  Or deep down was it their addict brain hatching a plan to fail?  The first step being the separation from everyone who held them accountable?

Is there any such thing as an "unplanned cave"?  I am inclined to say no. It's just a matter of how long it's been planned.

i understand this sentiment. but i can say with certainty that there is such a thing as an unplanned cave. i never planned it. i guess it was planned for the 4 minutes before i made the wrong choice. but it wasn't a long-term planned cave. i didn't leave the site expecting to cave. i left the site because it made me think of dip every fucking day and i was already quit, dammit. perhaps unconsciously there was always the planned cave in the back of my mind? but i never knew it... so is that planned?

you're right 30 - i was arrogant. i was strong. i won't say i was "special" because i don't want scowick calling me a butterfly. i was "different." i could swing one dip. man i was wrong. i was 411 days in and i was just so goddam wrong. my last post was at 366 and i was convinced i beat it. i've lost friends over those two weeks. i've been back for 10 days now and i still don't feel back. i'm quit as fuck. but i don't feel back. i can't voice my opinion or call people on shit or have a collossal set of balls... because i'm a retread. retreads don't get a second chance. we're allowed to come back - but we don't get a second chance to be a "voice." and that sucks more than anything. i love this site. i didn't realize how much until i left. check that - until i came back.

if you're out there planning an unplanned cave - don't do it. for the love of everything you hold dear, don't do it. you will never feel the same as you do today - even if you cave and come back. you'll never get the feeling you have today back.

Horseshit! Quit feeling sorry for yourself. Wastepanel is one of the finest "voices" on here, he is a leader, and incredibly important member of this community. CNC and others are the same way, they might be retreads but they are damn fine "voices", leaders and quitters I look up to and quit proudly with. I know you have that in you, I've seen it, and I expect it from you again. You should learn from your mistakes and teach others, I know you can and I know you will.

Per,

That post was not to rub salt in your wounds- it's to give you food for thought. I agree with luby, As the days go by, your voice will come back. Right now your daily post is your voice- it's your chance to say "I'm back, and I'm quit". . As far as the site "making you think about dip"- nearly every person that drifts gives that as their reason. You are not a special butterfly when it comes to this addiction. Whatever it is that you are going through, whatever it is that you are thinking- others have been there before you, and rest assured others will travel down that same path in the future.

psst. gonna tell you a little secret. Something happened to me mentally after I hit the one year mark. I don't know if it was kind of a "mental milestone" for me or not, but I had to FIGHT the urge to drift. Lost my passion for being here for a little while. It's gonna happen to you again, too. Prolly happen to me again. We are both going to have to FIGHT that urge. Just like anyone else with time here. The next time you are feeling that way- know that following this urge is to drift backward into the abyss. I know you know that now, but the trick is to know it each and every day you put your name and number on the line.

Don't forget about your cave, but do not let it defeat you, either. Let it be THE lesson that makes your quit impenetrable.

[luby]

Just some unfinished random musings about the past 2-3 weeks in KTC land........

The past 2-3 weeks have seen some quitters come back and post up day 1's, quitters that were well past the HOF when they caved.  A couple of them drifted, a couple just suddenly threw their quits away.  Posting every day and suddenly, out of nowhere- a cave.

Well perhaps not "out of nowhere".  We talk quite a bit about the "planned cave" here.  But is their really a difference between someone who decides not to use their tools and chooses to cave suddenly and someone who drifts and then caves?  Surely being here for over 100 days would expose someone to enough cave stories to know the inherent risks of drifting away from the site?  Surely being here for that long would equip them enough to know that they have options when they are weak?  Did all of the numbers somehow get wiped off of their phone?  Did they forget how to google "KTC" to find this site again? Why did they ignore the countless stories of people drifting and then coming back with a day 1?  Were they all so arrogant as to think they were special, that they were immune to what had overtaken so many?  Or deep down was it their addict brain hatching a plan to fail?  The first step being the separation from everyone who held them accountable?

Is there any such thing as an "unplanned cave"?  I am inclined to say no. It's just a matter of how long it's been planned.

i understand this sentiment. but i can say with certainty that there is such a thing as an unplanned cave. i never planned it. i guess it was planned for the 4 minutes before i made the wrong choice. but it wasn't a long-term planned cave. i didn't leave the site expecting to cave. i left the site because it made me think of dip every fucking day and i was already quit, dammit. perhaps unconsciously there was always the planned cave in the back of my mind? but i never knew it... so is that planned?

you're right 30 - i was arrogant. i was strong. i won't say i was "special" because i don't want scowick calling me a butterfly. i was "different." i could swing one dip. man i was wrong. i was 411 days in and i was just so goddam wrong. my last post was at 366 and i was convinced i beat it. i've lost friends over those two weeks. i've been back for 10 days now and i still don't feel back. i'm quit as fuck. but i don't feel back. i can't voice my opinion or call people on shit or have a collossal set of balls... because i'm a retread. retreads don't get a second chance. we're allowed to come back - but we don't get a second chance to be a "voice." and that sucks more than anything. i love this site. i didn't realize how much until i left. check that - until i came back.

if you're out there planning an unplanned cave - don't do it. for the love of everything you hold dear, don't do it. you will never feel the same as you do today - even if you cave and come back. you'll never get the feeling you have today back.

Horseshit! Quit feeling sorry for yourself. Wastepanel is one of the finest "voices" on here, he is a leader, and incredibly important member of this community. CNC and others are the same way, they might be retreads but they are damn fine "voices", leaders and quitters I look up to and quit proudly with. I know you have that in you, I've seen it, and I expect it from you again. You should learn from your mistakes and teach others, I know you can and I know you will.

[per034]

Just some unfinished random musings about the past 2-3 weeks in KTC land........

The past 2-3 weeks have seen some quitters come back and post up day 1's, quitters that were well past the HOF when they caved. A couple of them drifted, a couple just suddenly threw their quits away. Posting every day and suddenly, out of nowhere- a cave.

Well perhaps not "out of nowhere". We talk quite a bit about the "planned cave" here. But is their really a difference between someone who decides not to use their tools and chooses to cave suddenly and someone who drifts and then caves? Surely being here for over 100 days would expose someone to enough cave stories to know the inherent risks of drifting away from the site? Surely being here for that long would equip them enough to know that they have options when they are weak? Did all of the numbers somehow get wiped off of their phone? Did they forget how to google "KTC" to find this site again? Why did they ignore the countless stories of people drifting and then coming back with a day 1? Were they all so arrogant as to think they were special, that they were immune to what had overtaken so many? Or deep down was it their addict brain hatching a plan to fail? The first step being the separation from everyone who held them accountable?

Is there any such thing as an "unplanned cave"? I am inclined to say no. It's just a matter of how long it's been planned.

i understand this sentiment. but i can say with certainty that there is such a thing as an unplanned cave. i never planned it. i guess it was planned for the 4 minutes before i made the wrong choice. but it wasn't a long-term planned cave. i didn't leave the site expecting to cave. i left the site because it made me think of dip every fucking day and i was already quit, dammit. perhaps unconsciously there was always the planned cave in the back of my mind? but i never knew it... so is that planned?

you're right 30 - i was arrogant. i was strong. i won't say i was "special" because i don't want scowick calling me a butterfly. i was "different." i could swing one dip. man i was wrong. i was 411 days in and i was just so goddam wrong. my last post was at 366 and i was convinced i beat it. i've lost friends over those two weeks. i've been back for 10 days now and i still don't feel back. i'm quit as fuck. but i don't feel back. i can't voice my opinion or call people on shit or have a collossal set of balls... because i'm a retread. retreads don't get a second chance. we're allowed to come back - but we don't get a second chance to be a "voice." and that sucks more than anything. i love this site. i didn't realize how much until i left. check that - until i came back.

if you're out there planning an unplanned cave - don't do it. for the love of everything you hold dear, don't do it. you will never feel the same as you do today - even if you cave and come back. you'll never get the feeling you have today back.

[30yraddict]

Just some unfinished random musings about the past 2-3 weeks in KTC land........

The past 2-3 weeks have seen some quitters come back and post up day 1's, quitters that were well past the HOF when they caved. A couple of them drifted, a couple just suddenly threw their quits away. Posting every day and suddenly, out of nowhere- a cave.

Well perhaps not "out of nowhere". We talk quite a bit about the "planned cave" here. But is their really a difference between someone who decides not to use their tools and chooses to cave suddenly and someone who drifts and then caves? Surely being here for over 100 days would expose someone to enough cave stories to know the inherent risks of drifting away from the site? Surely being here for that long would equip them enough to know that they have options when they are weak? Did all of the numbers somehow get wiped off of their phone? Did they forget how to google "KTC" to find this site again? Why did they ignore the countless stories of people drifting and then coming back with a day 1? Were they all so arrogant as to think they were special, that they were immune to what had overtaken so many? Or deep down was it their addict brain hatching a plan to fail? The first step being the separation from everyone who held them accountable?

Is there any such thing as an "unplanned cave"? I am inclined to say no. It's just a matter of how long it's been planned.

[30yraddict]

If chewing is interfering with your family and work, you're probably a heavy chewer. If your family and work is interfering with your chewing, you're an addict.

Such is the case for me.

tinman,

You are on the right path, keep reading everything you can here.

One truth about nicotine is that there is no such thing as controlled use. Nicotine always OWNS the user. Each one of us is the same: an addict. A heavy dipper is always an addict. A light dipper is always an addict. If we ever forget that, the slide back to ACTIVE addiction begins.

I quit with you today.

[tinman]

If chewing is interfering with your family and work, you're probably a heavy chewer. If your family and work is interfering with your chewing, you're an addict.

Such is the case for me.