Addiction & lies

[scottmacek]

I apologize to anyone that I've hurt by my past transgressions to this site. I know what I did was selfish and fu$k*d up. One day at a time I plan to prove that I too can be stronger, honest, and live with my addiction.

[wastepanel]

Here at the KTC, we do forgive past mistakes.

Trust me. I should be at 2450 today. However, I made the mistake of drifting away from the program early in my "quit" so it became a stoppage instead. I came back with many of the same reservations and insecurities as people like Scott have.

However, and I have heard this from many people, I "owned up and moved on" from my past. I used my past mistakes to drive my new quit. I knew that I hadn't made connections with anybody the first time around and I changed that. I propped up my brothers, and they, in turn, propped me up. Hell, I ran my first marathon yesterday and the first person I wanted to call was my brother Eafman. I knew that not soiling nicotine's name daily meant that I was on a slippery slope back to "not using" instead of being quit so I have posted everyday since I returned. I have stayed active on the boards, and have tried to help as many people be free of nicotine as I physically can. That, in turn, makes me stronger.

I've heard many people, on the other hand, say that I get a "free pass" to my mistakes. I've been told that I talk a lot of shit for somebody that is a proven failure and that I shouldn't be so hard on people because I "should understand".

Ultimately, I don't give a flying fuck what is thought of my past. This quit is about me. It's how I view my actions. In "Rocky Balboa", Rocky tells his son that "It isnÂ’t about how hard you hit, itÂ’s about how hard you can get hit and keep moving forward. How much can you take and keep moving forward? ThatÂ’s how winning is done."

Scott is not going to fail or succeed because of what we say to him.

He will fail or succeed because of what he does.

He has chosen failure 4 times with this program. He has lied twice. This is a big problem, and something that I hope he can overcome this time. (I say hope because I can't do a damn thing to control his actions.) If he wants to assure that he will not follow that same course again, he better face what he was and has done in the past. Running from his past will not help. Ignoring it is the same as running from it.

We move forward because we want to.

Scott, if you're quit, be quit. Everybody here will help you. But don't waste our time or expect this place to be a magic elixir. This quit is you, and until you realize that, you are destined to fail. Make a plan, and don't let yourself fall into complacency or lie to yourself that nicotine makes the world better. If that was the case, why have you attempted to quit so often? How did you feel upon failing? Upon realizing what you gave up? Take those feelings and utilize them. Write them down and reread them every morning if you have to. DO WHATEVER IT TAKES TO STAY QUIT.

Learn from your past.
Quit for today.
Forget the future.

YOU can do this.

[nebraskadad58]

steve, I PM'd you.

[Coach Steve]

As a relative NOOB  I see this thread and it makes me want to cry.


it might be wise for KTC  members' to consider this "thought"
IN AA there is a saying:
"We don't shoot our wounded", 

I see a lot of people on KTC go off on judgemental tirades.  at or about people who cave, and come back, and frankly i've always found that attitude a bit disconcerting.. 

I dipped for 10 yrs, since a divorce, and was a Ninja dipper, after my spouse and i reconciled.
Lying is a damned normal part of the disease of addiction.

Anyone her who thinks they are above a cave, don't understand it as an addiction and are lying to themselves. I quit judging people, for actions i am guilty of. The fact is this, we are addicts and addicts lie. I was in the same boat with a spouse and bald faced lies and Ninja dipping.

She busted me, I got honest, and have been nicotine free for 14 days now.

Just quit today, quit for you, not for KTC, or your wife, or me, or anyone but you.

Come hell or hi water don't pickup the 1st one.

I will say the 1st few days absolutely suck, but getting past the physical craving means being willing to ride the "SUCK" as guys call it here and use it as your motivation to quite.

I DO NOT want to go through the suck ever again. So for today, even when I have a craving thought, i put gum or fake stuff in my mouth to ride it out. 

I am a relative NOOB, and frankly sometimes judgemental A-Holes forget how fucking close the cave is.

I didn't quit to come here and get slapped down by seeming know-it-alls, I came here for honest support and encouragement.. I do get it.

I've been sober and in AA for a long time, I've witnessed a lot of people die through the years, one good friend who was sober died of emphasema last year because he could put down the cigs.

I came to the conclusion the addiction is in control and I am not, and not amount of willpower was going to fix it. I had to have outside help, 1st from the group, here, and also from my wife and the God of my understanding.

try willpower with diarrhea see how well it works. 
Fact. We lie.
In order to quit dip or anything else, we have to quit lying to ourselves 1st. Doesn't matter what other people say or do, what we do is what matters.

I am quit TODAY. AND God willing forever. But the forever part is out of my hands.

My 2 Cents.

Do you guys discuss "willpower" in your AA meetings? That's a serious question. You are the second or third person on here that also went through AA, that essentially said the same thing (i.e., quitting nicotine isn't willpower, you need accountability). I don't necessarily disagree with your statement, I'm just curious as to whether it's discussed in AA meetings.

As for the rest of this thread.....the good news for scott is that KTC has added several new members since his last foray in Dec 2011. Those new members can accept him and move on with the quit because they didn't have any skin in the game. As for Dchogs and his other former quit group members, it's personal and they have every right to post their thoughts. Whenever a former caver from April 2012 returns they'd better expect to catch hell from me and others in April 12. It's called accountability. You don't get to wipe the slate clean and start over. In fact, a caver should never expect to start over. Past transgressions should never be forgotten and when probably remembered, past transgressions should fuel the fire that is your current quit.

Steve,

In AA we make known there is a clear difference between "willingness" and "willpower".

there is a "blurb in our "recovery book"
"No human Power could have relieved our "addiction" this includes willpower.

My individual "frail" human willpower, can not of it's own accord deal with the addiction without something bigger than myself. Which is why i sought out KTC.

KTC is a group of addicts, you guys as a group have "more power" than the individual.

My logical process brings The addiction to the CAN into my other recovery. I also believe that groups aren't my higher power. I have to believe that in the event I can't get a hold of some in the group, I have to be able to believe something "bigger" than all this can keep me from, (drinking, drugging, or DIPPING..)

try to will diarrhea from occuring see how far you get from the toilet.

What would your response be if I told you that my higher power isn't necessarily the direct contact I have with other quitters, it's knowing that there are 20+ regular posters in April 2012 who make their promise each day just like me. Not to mention the countless other quitters that post daily on KTC. When all else fails and you're in a cell service desert, there must be something more than just being able to talk to someone else. Call it trust, faith, whatever you wanna call it, but it's very real. I trust that my quit brothers and sisters will kick the nic bitch in the teeth every time she comes calling....whether or not they can get someone on the phone or a response to a text. In essence, the quit becomes less about me, and more about "us". When thought of this way, each promise is reciprocal and my actions affect not only me as an individual, but the well being of the entire group. What good is my promise if I can't rely on the promise of another?

My higherpower is that (and more) as well Steve.

knowing they are there is important in AA. as well as here.

"We can't do it alone",

"we CAN do it together"

Although I know what you meant.....be careful with the "we can do it together" talk or next thing you'll know gmann will be blowing up your PM inbox.

[nebraskadad58]

As a relative NOOB  I see this thread and it makes me want to cry.


it might be wise for KTC  members' to consider this "thought"
IN AA there is a saying:
"We don't shoot our wounded", 

I see a lot of people on KTC go off on judgemental tirades.  at or about people who cave, and come back, and frankly i've always found that attitude a bit disconcerting.. 

I dipped for 10 yrs, since a divorce, and was a Ninja dipper, after my spouse and i reconciled.
Lying is a damned normal part of the disease of addiction.

Anyone her who thinks they are above a cave, don't understand it as an addiction and are lying to themselves. I quit judging people, for actions i am guilty of. The fact is this, we are addicts and addicts lie. I was in the same boat with a spouse and bald faced lies and Ninja dipping.

She busted me, I got honest, and have been nicotine free for 14 days now.

Just quit today, quit for you, not for KTC, or your wife, or me, or anyone but you.

Come hell or hi water don't pickup the 1st one.

I will say the 1st few days absolutely suck, but getting past the physical craving means being willing to ride the "SUCK" as guys call it here and use it as your motivation to quite.

I DO NOT want to go through the suck ever again. So for today, even when I have a craving thought, i put gum or fake stuff in my mouth to ride it out. 

I am a relative NOOB, and frankly sometimes judgemental A-Holes forget how fucking close the cave is.

I didn't quit to come here and get slapped down by seeming know-it-alls, I came here for honest support and encouragement.. I do get it.

I've been sober and in AA for a long time, I've witnessed a lot of people die through the years, one good friend who was sober died of emphasema last year because he could put down the cigs.

I came to the conclusion the addiction is in control and I am not, and not amount of willpower was going to fix it. I had to have outside help, 1st from the group, here, and also from my wife and the God of my understanding.

try willpower with diarrhea see how well it works. 
Fact. We lie.
In order to quit dip or anything else, we have to quit lying to ourselves 1st. Doesn't matter what other people say or do, what we do is what matters.

I am quit TODAY. AND God willing forever. But the forever part is out of my hands.

My 2 Cents.

Do you guys discuss "willpower" in your AA meetings? That's a serious question. You are the second or third person on here that also went through AA, that essentially said the same thing (i.e., quitting nicotine isn't willpower, you need accountability). I don't necessarily disagree with your statement, I'm just curious as to whether it's discussed in AA meetings.

As for the rest of this thread.....the good news for scott is that KTC has added several new members since his last foray in Dec 2011. Those new members can accept him and move on with the quit because they didn't have any skin in the game. As for Dchogs and his other former quit group members, it's personal and they have every right to post their thoughts. Whenever a former caver from April 2012 returns they'd better expect to catch hell from me and others in April 12. It's called accountability. You don't get to wipe the slate clean and start over. In fact, a caver should never expect to start over. Past transgressions should never be forgotten and when probably remembered, past transgressions should fuel the fire that is your current quit.

Steve,

In AA we make known there is a clear difference between "willingness" and "willpower".

there is a "blurb in our "recovery book"
"No human Power could have relieved our "addiction" this includes willpower.

My individual "frail" human willpower, can not of it's own accord deal with the addiction without something bigger than myself. Which is why i sought out KTC.

KTC is a group of addicts, you guys as a group have "more power" than the individual.

My logical process brings The addiction to the CAN into my other recovery. I also believe that groups aren't my higher power. I have to believe that in the event I can't get a hold of some in the group, I have to be able to believe something "bigger" than all this can keep me from, (drinking, drugging, or DIPPING..)

try to will diarrhea from occuring see how far you get from the toilet.

What would your response be if I told you that my higher power isn't necessarily the direct contact I have with other quitters, it's knowing that there are 20+ regular posters in April 2012 who make their promise each day just like me. Not to mention the countless other quitters that post daily on KTC. When all else fails and you're in a cell service desert, there must be something more than just being able to talk to someone else. Call it trust, faith, whatever you wanna call it, but it's very real. I trust that my quit brothers and sisters will kick the nic bitch in the teeth every time she comes calling....whether or not they can get someone on the phone or a response to a text. In essence, the quit becomes less about me, and more about "us". When thought of this way, each promise is reciprocal and my actions affect not only me as an individual, but the well being of the entire group. What good is my promise if I can't rely on the promise of another?

My higherpower is that (and more) as well Steve.

knowing they are there is important in AA. as well as here.

"We can't do it alone",

"we CAN do it together"

[Coach Steve]

As a relative NOOB  I see this thread and it makes me want to cry.


it might be wise for KTC  members' to consider this "thought"
IN AA there is a saying:
"We don't shoot our wounded", 

I see a lot of people on KTC go off on judgemental tirades.  at or about people who cave, and come back, and frankly i've always found that attitude a bit disconcerting.. 

I dipped for 10 yrs, since a divorce, and was a Ninja dipper, after my spouse and i reconciled.
Lying is a damned normal part of the disease of addiction.

Anyone her who thinks they are above a cave, don't understand it as an addiction and are lying to themselves. I quit judging people, for actions i am guilty of. The fact is this, we are addicts and addicts lie. I was in the same boat with a spouse and bald faced lies and Ninja dipping.

She busted me, I got honest, and have been nicotine free for 14 days now.

Just quit today, quit for you, not for KTC, or your wife, or me, or anyone but you.

Come hell or hi water don't pickup the 1st one.

I will say the 1st few days absolutely suck, but getting past the physical craving means being willing to ride the "SUCK" as guys call it here and use it as your motivation to quite.

I DO NOT want to go through the suck ever again. So for today, even when I have a craving thought, i put gum or fake stuff in my mouth to ride it out. 

I am a relative NOOB, and frankly sometimes judgemental A-Holes forget how fucking close the cave is.

I didn't quit to come here and get slapped down by seeming know-it-alls, I came here for honest support and encouragement.. I do get it.

I've been sober and in AA for a long time, I've witnessed a lot of people die through the years, one good friend who was sober died of emphasema last year because he could put down the cigs.

I came to the conclusion the addiction is in control and I am not, and not amount of willpower was going to fix it. I had to have outside help, 1st from the group, here, and also from my wife and the God of my understanding.

try willpower with diarrhea see how well it works. 
Fact. We lie.
In order to quit dip or anything else, we have to quit lying to ourselves 1st. Doesn't matter what other people say or do, what we do is what matters.

I am quit TODAY. AND God willing forever. But the forever part is out of my hands.

My 2 Cents.

Do you guys discuss "willpower" in your AA meetings? That's a serious question. You are the second or third person on here that also went through AA, that essentially said the same thing (i.e., quitting nicotine isn't willpower, you need accountability). I don't necessarily disagree with your statement, I'm just curious as to whether it's discussed in AA meetings.

As for the rest of this thread.....the good news for scott is that KTC has added several new members since his last foray in Dec 2011. Those new members can accept him and move on with the quit because they didn't have any skin in the game. As for Dchogs and his other former quit group members, it's personal and they have every right to post their thoughts. Whenever a former caver from April 2012 returns they'd better expect to catch hell from me and others in April 12. It's called accountability. You don't get to wipe the slate clean and start over. In fact, a caver should never expect to start over. Past transgressions should never be forgotten and when probably remembered, past transgressions should fuel the fire that is your current quit.

Steve,

In AA we make known there is a clear difference between "willingness" and "willpower".

there is a "blurb in our "recovery book"
"No human Power could have relieved our "addiction" this includes willpower.

My individual "frail" human willpower, can not of it's own accord deal with the addiction without something bigger than myself. Which is why i sought out KTC.

KTC is a group of addicts, you guys as a group have "more power" than the individual.

My logical process brings The addiction to the CAN into my other recovery. I also believe that groups aren't my higher power. I have to believe that in the event I can't get a hold of some in the group, I have to be able to believe something "bigger" than all this can keep me from, (drinking, drugging, or DIPPING..)

try to will diarrhea from occuring see how far you get from the toilet.

What would your response be if I told you that my higher power isn't necessarily the direct contact I have with other quitters, it's knowing that there are 20+ regular posters in April 2012 who make their promise each day just like me. Not to mention the countless other quitters that post daily on KTC. When all else fails and you're in a cell service desert, there must be something more than just being able to talk to someone else. Call it trust, faith, whatever you wanna call it, but it's very real. I trust that my quit brothers and sisters will kick the nic bitch in the teeth every time she comes calling....whether or not they can get someone on the phone or a response to a text. In essence, the quit becomes less about me, and more about "us". When thought of this way, each promise is reciprocal and my actions affect not only me as an individual, but the well being of the entire group. What good is my promise if I can't rely on the promise of another?

[Radman]

Scott, you have some serious credibility issues to overcome. Push back all you want for getting jumped on, but you betrayed the basic tenet of this site. The premise that makes this work is we all believe each other when we give our word and post roll for the day. Take that trust away and this is worthless. What if everyone did what you did?

As you say, over a year ago, etc. That is fine, I hope you quit this time for real. I also hope you understand why many people will find it difficult to trust or believe what you say.

If you post roll, you are trusted to be quit for the day. If people have to wonder if you "really mean it" today, then this site is broken.

Agreed. I just now found this thread, and it hurts. The fabric of this place has been weakened a bit today. I'm not gonna jump in with a big hammer, but instead will try to offer some insight into the broad spectrum of reactions to this situation.

I think Scott (and some of you others who have accused folks of "ballbusting") have completely missed what this place means to some of us here.

KTC is not something I take lightly. It is part of who I am. The folks here who mentored me saved my life and made me a better person. I know that with 100% certainty. I am indebted to them. They are my friends. I've talked with them. I've met with them. I've ate and drank with them. I've even been to some of their homes. None of that would have happened without this place. KTC is not somewhere I go to hide behind a keyboard and pretend to care about people. I'm the same guy here that I am anywhere else. I care, and I'll do everything in my power to help serious, dedicated folks here. With that mindset comes some vulnerability, I suppose.

So, when somebody comes in here and completely disrespects and lies to the kind-hearted mentors, it hurts. It hurts bad. Scott says that changing screen names was a "mistake" made in the past. I can't comprehend that being a mistake, because there is no way I would do something like that myself. That action says a lot about character. I can't even put it into words. To fail in your quit and ignore fellow quitters is one thing, but to pretend to be somebody else is much more than a mistake.

There are probably 30 people that know me and have my number. I hope that every one of them would be calling me repeatedly after a couple days of not showing. Could I lie to them or ignore them? I don't see how I could. That's accountability. That's compassion through brotherhood. I would have it no other way.

I guess the point of this rambling mess is just to say that I won't do or say anything on this forum that I wouldn't do or say in real life if y'all were standing right here with me. I won't look you in the eye with a promise of no nicotine, then go have a dip. Nor will I tell you that my name is now "Leroy".

[nebraskadad58]

As a relative NOOB  I see this thread and it makes me want to cry.


it might be wise for KTC  members' to consider this "thought"
IN AA there is a saying:
"We don't shoot our wounded", 

I see a lot of people on KTC go off on judgemental tirades.  at or about people who cave, and come back, and frankly i've always found that attitude a bit disconcerting.. 

I dipped for 10 yrs, since a divorce, and was a Ninja dipper, after my spouse and i reconciled.
Lying is a damned normal part of the disease of addiction.

Anyone her who thinks they are above a cave, don't understand it as an addiction and are lying to themselves. I quit judging people, for actions i am guilty of. The fact is this, we are addicts and addicts lie. I was in the same boat with a spouse and bald faced lies and Ninja dipping.

She busted me, I got honest, and have been nicotine free for 14 days now.

Just quit today, quit for you, not for KTC, or your wife, or me, or anyone but you.

Come hell or hi water don't pickup the 1st one.

I will say the 1st few days absolutely suck, but getting past the physical craving means being willing to ride the "SUCK" as guys call it here and use it as your motivation to quite.

I DO NOT want to go through the suck ever again. So for today, even when I have a craving thought, i put gum or fake stuff in my mouth to ride it out. 

I am a relative NOOB, and frankly sometimes judgemental A-Holes forget how fucking close the cave is.

I didn't quit to come here and get slapped down by seeming know-it-alls, I came here for honest support and encouragement.. I do get it.

I've been sober and in AA for a long time, I've witnessed a lot of people die through the years, one good friend who was sober died of emphasema last year because he could put down the cigs.

I came to the conclusion the addiction is in control and I am not, and not amount of willpower was going to fix it. I had to have outside help, 1st from the group, here, and also from my wife and the God of my understanding.

try willpower with diarrhea see how well it works. 
Fact. We lie.
In order to quit dip or anything else, we have to quit lying to ourselves 1st. Doesn't matter what other people say or do, what we do is what matters.

I am quit TODAY. AND God willing forever. But the forever part is out of my hands.

My 2 Cents.

Do you guys discuss "willpower" in your AA meetings? That's a serious question. You are the second or third person on here that also went through AA, that essentially said the same thing (i.e., quitting nicotine isn't willpower, you need accountability). I don't necessarily disagree with your statement, I'm just curious as to whether it's discussed in AA meetings.

As for the rest of this thread.....the good news for scott is that KTC has added several new members since his last foray in Dec 2011. Those new members can accept him and move on with the quit because they didn't have any skin in the game. As for Dchogs and his other former quit group members, it's personal and they have every right to post their thoughts. Whenever a former caver from April 2012 returns they'd better expect to catch hell from me and others in April 12. It's called accountability. You don't get to wipe the slate clean and start over. In fact, a caver should never expect to start over. Past transgressions should never be forgotten and when probably remembered, past transgressions should fuel the fire that is your current quit.

Steve,

In AA we make known there is a clear difference between "willingness" and "willpower".

there is a "blurb in our "recovery book"
"No human Power could have relieved our "addiction" this includes willpower.

My individual "frail" human willpower, can not of it's own accord deal with the addiction without something bigger than myself. Which is why i sought out KTC.

KTC is a group of addicts, you guys as a group have "more power" than the individual.

My logical process brings The addiction to the CAN into my other recovery. I also believe that groups aren't my higher power. I have to believe that in the event I can't get a hold of some in the group, I have to be able to believe something "bigger" than all this can keep me from, (drinking, drugging, or DIPPING..)

try to will diarrhea from occuring see how far you get from the toilet.

[dante]

Haven't posted in a while other than daily roll.

This sparked my attention.

Talk is cheap, and action speaks louder than words.

Quit is not something you do once and then forget about. Quit is something you do with every breath you take. So show us you mean it.

It must really suck to realize that two full years have gone by that you could have been quit. Fix that.

Dante-742 quit

[Sleestak]

Scott, you have some serious credibility issues to overcome. Push back all you want for getting jumped on, but you betrayed the basic tenet of this site. The premise that makes this work is we all believe each other when we give our word and post roll for the day. Take that trust away and this is worthless. What if everyone did what you did?

As you say, over a year ago, etc. That is fine, I hope you quit this time for real. I also hope you understand why many people will find it difficult to trust or believe what you say.

If you post roll, you are trusted to be quit for the day. If people have to wonder if you "really mean it" today, then this site is broken.

[Coach Steve]

As a relative NOOB I see this thread and it makes me want to cry.


it might be wise for KTC members' to consider this "thought"
IN AA there is a saying:
"We don't shoot our wounded",

I see a lot of people on KTC go off on judgemental tirades. at or about people who cave, and come back, and frankly i've always found that attitude a bit disconcerting..

I dipped for 10 yrs, since a divorce, and was a Ninja dipper, after my spouse and i reconciled.
Lying is a damned normal part of the disease of addiction.

Anyone her who thinks they are above a cave, don't understand it as an addiction and are lying to themselves. I quit judging people, for actions i am guilty of. The fact is this, we are addicts and addicts lie. I was in the same boat with a spouse and bald faced lies and Ninja dipping.

She busted me, I got honest, and have been nicotine free for 14 days now.

Just quit today, quit for you, not for KTC, or your wife, or me, or anyone but you.

Come hell or hi water don't pickup the 1st one.

I will say the 1st few days absolutely suck, but getting past the physical craving means being willing to ride the "SUCK" as guys call it here and use it as your motivation to quite.

I DO NOT want to go through the suck ever again. So for today, even when I have a craving thought, i put gum or fake stuff in my mouth to ride it out.

I am a relative NOOB, and frankly sometimes judgemental A-Holes forget how fucking close the cave is.

I didn't quit to come here and get slapped down by seeming know-it-alls, I came here for honest support and encouragement.. I do get it.

I've been sober and in AA for a long time, I've witnessed a lot of people die through the years, one good friend who was sober died of emphasema last year because he could put down the cigs.

I came to the conclusion the addiction is in control and I am not, and not amount of willpower was going to fix it. I had to have outside help, 1st from the group, here, and also from my wife and the God of my understanding.

try willpower with diarrhea see how well it works.
Fact. We lie.
In order to quit dip or anything else, we have to quit lying to ourselves 1st. Doesn't matter what other people say or do, what we do is what matters.

I am quit TODAY. AND God willing forever. But the forever part is out of my hands.

My 2 Cents.

Do you guys discuss "willpower" in your AA meetings? That's a serious question. You are the second or third person on here that also went through AA, that essentially said the same thing (i.e., quitting nicotine isn't willpower, you need accountability). I don't necessarily disagree with your statement, I'm just curious as to whether it's discussed in AA meetings.

As for the rest of this thread.....the good news for scott is that KTC has added several new members since his last foray in Dec 2011. Those new members can accept him and move on with the quit because they didn't have any skin in the game. As for Dchogs and his other former quit group members, it's personal and they have every right to post their thoughts. Whenever a former caver from April 2012 returns they'd better expect to catch hell from me and others in April 12. It's called accountability. You don't get to wipe the slate clean and start over. In fact, a caver should never expect to start over. Past transgressions should never be forgotten and when probably remembered, past transgressions should fuel the fire that is your current quit.

[scottmacek]

I don't mind catching hell if I was not coming clean. But I'm catching shit for mistakes that were made over a year ago. I don't understand the logic in that, do you? I came CLEAN yesterday because I've got nothing to hide. So it just seems that some people want to give me shit, just to give me shit. And try to cherry pick things that were said a year ago as a reason to harp on me. Go ahead if that makes you feel better.

As a relative NOOB  I see this thread and it makes me want to cry.


it might be wise for KTC  members' to consider this "thought"
IN AA there is a saying:
"We don't shoot our wounded", 

I see a lot of people on KTC go off on judgemental tirades.  at or about people who cave, and come back, and frankly i've always found that attitude a bit disconcerting.. 

I dipped for 10 yrs, since a divorce, and was a Ninja dipper, after my spouse and i reconciled.
Lying is a damned normal part of the disease of addiction.

Anyone her who thinks they are above a cave, don't understand it as an addiction and are lying to themselves. I quit judging people, for actions i am guilty of. The fact is this, we are addicts and addicts lie. I was in the same boat with a spouse and bald faced lies and Ninja dipping.

She busted me, I got honest, and have been nicotine free for 14 days now.

Just quit today, quit for you, not for KTC, or your wife, or me, or anyone but you.

Come hell or hi water don't pickup the 1st one.

I will say the 1st few days absolutely suck, but getting past the physical craving means being willing to ride the "SUCK" as guys call it here and use it as your motivation to quite.

I DO NOT want to go through the suck ever again. So for today, even when I have a craving thought, i put gum or fake stuff in my mouth to ride it out. 

I am a relative NOOB, and frankly sometimes judgemental A-Holes forget how fucking close the cave is.

I didn't quit to come here and get slapped down by seeming know-it-alls, I came here for honest support and encouragement.. I do get it.

I've been sober and in AA for a long time, I've witnessed a lot of people die through the years, one good friend who was sober died of emphasema last year because he could put down the cigs.

I came to the conclusion the addiction is in control and I am not, and not amount of willpower was going to fix it. I had to have outside help, 1st from the group, here, and also from my wife and the God of my understanding.

try willpower with diarrhea see how well it works. 
Fact. We lie.
In order to quit dip or anything else, we have to quit lying to ourselves 1st. Doesn't matter what other people say or do, what we do is what matters.

I am quit TODAY. AND God willing forever. But the forever part is out of my hands.

My 2 Cents.

The vitriol being released on this dude is not because he is a weak, caving, serial quitter. We are all somewhat weak (and I contend stupid as well) for ever getting hooked on this stupid shit. Weakness can be forgiven. This guy is catching hell because he is a liar, plain and simple.

You mention that we are "all liars" and that is fine, but on this site, you DO NOT get to lie and get away with it.

Scott or whatever your name is, I wish you well. Good luck with your quit, but damn dude...you have to know that all we have is our word when we post roll. We have to be able to believe each other, or it is absolutely meaningless. Lie to your wife if you want, but don't lie on here.

[Evil_Won]

To be honest, I don't know if I am ready

There is the problem. You have to be ready, 100% commited, to quit for you and you alone. This is a daily battle. I think about dip several times a day but I post roll and my word is strong..stronger than anything in my life. I'm ready to fight each day and I declare it by posting roll (100% too - just sayin').

A while back someone from my group posted something to the effect of "can't post roll today. I don't know if I can keep my word". That took some gigantic balls of steel. And, I'm proud to say, that quitters from our group jumped in talked that guy off the ledge and he is still a 100% poster to this day. That is what this is about. If you are ready you get full support. If you are weak you have to speak up to let us know that you need extra support.

If you know you are not ready, so be it. Come back when you are. No hurt feelings.

No hurt feeligns excpet for the lying part - that's bullshit anyway you slice it. Again, if I post I have given my word and I will NEVER lie to these guys. I have lied to everyone else on the planet, not happy to say that but it's the truth, but I have never lied on these forums.

[wmcatty]

As a relative NOOB  I see this thread and it makes me want to cry.


it might be wise for KTC  members' to consider this "thought"
IN AA there is a saying:
"We don't shoot our wounded", 

I see a lot of people on KTC go off on judgemental tirades.  at or about people who cave, and come back, and frankly i've always found that attitude a bit disconcerting.. 

i've embraced folks that have caved. those people failed, found the strength to quit again, owned up to their mistakes, taken their lumps, and quit each morning.

scotty here did the following: caved, continued to post roll for 2 weeks as though he were still quit, disappeared, returned under a new name as if he were new to the site, got found out, caved, etc.

we accept those that make mistakes, as long as they honestly make changes in their lives to avoid those mistakes again. scott made a mistake, lied about making a mistake (posting roll while using), lied again in coming back as bayside, and is now playing the victim when people call him out for being dishonest. kinda like bring a six pack into the AA meeting, pissing all over the mic, and then whining that no one is supporting his new found resolve to quit.

sure, he said he lied. no specifics about how he lied or what he lied about, so i threw in some threads from that time period. over the top? to some, i guess, but only to those that are still not willing to accept responsibility for their actions. and if someone's not ready to do that, then they're really not ready to quit.

if he had come back and did a 100% full disclosure intro, i wouldn't have had to dredge up history. if he had really been honest, i would have let him be (though still thinking he's a lying bastard). the fact is that he wasn't giving the group the full truth.

I have to agree with Nebraskadad. While it is usual and customary to ball bash someone for lying, caving, etc, when did we get so frigging judgmental that you would completely discard someone for past screw ups? Nothing is worse than a lier or a thief. He stole our time by posting when he knew he was lying about it. So be it. It is done. It is over. Does he need to do some time in a fucking prison to appease some of you hardasses? He has atoned and admitted his past discresions. He who is without sin should cast the first stone...and it looks like a few of you well meaning vets are totally without sin. Screw that. Welcome back Scott. I hope you are sincere and you make it. I for one would vote to bar you for life from KTC if you fuck this one up. The ball is now in your court.

[dchogs]

As a relative NOOB I see this thread and it makes me want to cry.


it might be wise for KTC members' to consider this "thought"
IN AA there is a saying:
"We don't shoot our wounded",

I see a lot of people on KTC go off on judgemental tirades. at or about people who cave, and come back, and frankly i've always found that attitude a bit disconcerting..

i've embraced folks that have caved. those people failed, found the strength to quit again, owned up to their mistakes, taken their lumps, and quit each morning.

scotty here did the following: caved, continued to post roll for 2 weeks as though he were still quit, disappeared, returned under a new name as if he were new to the site, got found out, caved, etc.

we accept those that make mistakes, as long as they honestly make changes in their lives to avoid those mistakes again. scott made a mistake, lied about making a mistake (posting roll while using), lied again in coming back as bayside, and is now playing the victim when people call him out for being dishonest. kinda like bring a six pack into the AA meeting, pissing all over the mic, and then whining that no one is supporting his new found resolve to quit.

sure, he said he lied. no specifics about how he lied or what he lied about, so i threw in some threads from that time period. over the top? to some, i guess, but only to those that are still not willing to accept responsibility for their actions. and if someone's not ready to do that, then they're really not ready to quit.

if he had come back and did a 100% full disclosure intro, i wouldn't have had to dredge up history. if he had really been honest, i would have let him be (though still thinking he's a lying bastard). the fact is that he wasn't giving the group the full truth.