Author Topic: Quitting  (Read 14384 times)

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Offline FMBM707

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Re: Quitting
« Reply #210 on: October 09, 2014, 04:40:00 PM »
Quote from: twballgame9
Quote from: FMBM707
Quote from: Lipizzaner
Quote from: FMBM707
DAY 95 I'm starting to understand

I read some shit in MAYbe another group today and it really impacted me and opened my eyes. It was an 'aha' moment. My first response was to defend but after I thought about it I realized I needed to better understand.

So here's my open note to the "badass keyboard internet super duper typer tough guys" and their lackeys.

I need to adjust my thinking and realize this is part of the healing process for some.

Maybe some of the posts/actions of others that I don’t agree with is their coping mechanism for beating this addiction. When quitting a drug people cope in different ways. My aunt who is an alcoholic coped by starting both a caffeine and a nicotine addiction. She abused her body with alcohol for so long that it was ‘better’ for her to smoke cigarettes and drink coffee all day than it was to drink booze because the immediate effects of more alcohol were far more severe and life threatening than the effects of starting a nicotine addiction.

There's more than one reason not to drink alcohol in the first 50-100 days when quitting nicotine – it’s not only because it’s a trigger or some or because it lowers our inhibitions- drinking alcohol can replace your nicotine addiction. Our brains are starving for that dopamine fix and abusing booze can sate that need.

Some people turn to exercise, some people turn to booze, some people stuff their face with food and some people have to fulfill a deeper desire of attention (badasses) and acceptance (lackeys). Some probably do a bit of all and more. ItÂ’s our bodies seeking to replace the dopamine nicotine once gave us. It seems I've tried about everything above.

If you’ve read through any group you’ll eventually see someone say: “Take what you need and leave the rest.” That is the nice way of saying don’t listen to the attention grabbing whores who vomit mostly self-gratifying nonsense to get a rise because that’s how they cope. I need to recognize and understand that some get their fix from the attention (good or bad) and acceptance their posts generate. Maybe that is how they are filling that dopamine void. Where others can fill that void outside of the KTC web-site, others may NEED this web-site to get their dopamine fix. Although we don’t agree with what they say, maybe it’s time we recognize it, understand what it is, give them their attention fix and then move on because by doing so we are helping them and that is what we are here to do.

How to spot these internet tough guys: These tough guys call a lot of people names and have been called a few choice names themselves. ItÂ’s all part of getting their fix- thatÂ’s why you will see them at times go to great lengths for some sort of response, recognition or approval. And they wonÂ’t stop until the get it. Their desire for attention blinds them from a desire to help others quit nicotine. It's all really self-absorbed but hey, focus on your quit first right, then you can focus on others.

Much like some of us became expert ninja dippers, these internet badasses have become expert shit show, dumpster fire creating posters. You see them talk about themselves in the 3rd person or post questions like: “Can I jump in on this?” or “Do you want me to take this one?” or “Do you really want to go there?” You can watch them run back to their own quit group during the mayhem they either created or fueled searching for more of the attention they crave. You can also see (if you read through enough of their posts) that once their level of recognition and attention has been met they usually calm their post down and actually write something that is well-reasoned with intent to help. They are able to do this because their brain is no longer searching for that fix.

It use to piss me off to see guys in their own groups egging these individuals on by writing shit like, “Wait until so and so reads this” or “I can’t wait for so and so to get on here” or “So and so is going to have a field day with this” but now I understand that these guys are helping their brothers in quit stay quit by feeding their coping mechanism. Keep in mind these guys aren't lackeys- they are just guys that have recognized the need to feed this coping mechanism. Look at their posts, you can tell the difference between someone helping the internet badass get his fix and someone looking for acceptance from said internet badass.

That got me thinking about the lackeys. Even the lackeys that follow these ‘internet badasses’ around serve their purpose- they provide just enough attention while receiving acceptance in return. They feed off each other. You can see it plain as day. I believe someone described it as sharks in the water- they smell blood and they all come a runnin'. The internet tough guy will post an attention grabbing statement and one of his lackeys will come along and pile onto it, which in turns reinforces the 'badass' to continue because it got the desired effect of attention. It's a cycle of attention, acceptance, attention, acceptance etc. That's why you see it snow ball out of control.

Maybe the internet tough guys can get what they need and still help those that need help. There is a distinction between constructive criticism and plain ol' criticism. The distinction lies within the results they create. ItÂ’s easy to merely criticize, which is more times than not, demotivating. ItÂ’s much more difficult to make a point it in a constructive manner creating a positive result (ie. helping someone quit or stay quit).

That doesnÂ’t mean you canÂ’t be negative, it just means the negativity has to be presented in a manner that results in a positive result. A difficult thing to do. ItÂ’s not from a lack of intelligence that some folks on here donÂ’t usually attempt to be constructive. ItÂ’s because they are looking for their fix. We are all selfish, because we are all addicts. We use to selfishly rush off, or slink off, to stuff our faces with poison. These internet badasses quickly and selfishly spew a bunch of verbal diarrhea because it gets a reaction and it gets them their fix. If it doesn't immediately get a reaction just sit back and watch because they are going to ratchet up the intensity of their posts. It's them reaching out for help- that's what I need to understand. Recognize it early, tell them what a badass they are and then move on.

Some of these badass internet posters have posted some very good stuff after they've received their adequate amount of attention. Maybe it would be too much to ask for a constructive criticism approach first because itÂ’s too easy to spew the shock jock material and openly criticize. ItÂ’s much more difficult to constructively criticize because that means the focus is on someone or something other than themselves. The challenge is to be able to use both positive and negative comments in a manner that shows you are fighting on the same team. It may mean you do not get the attention you desire right away because you have to think about how to say something in a way that motivates someone to do something better and for the benefit of the whole. This is more difficult to do but the 'fix' from doing this is longer lasting.

Giving is getting.

Then again Mheybe I'm all wrong, and some of these guys are just bad human beings and enjoy hurting small animals.

So I might not piss on some of these guys if they were on fire but I'd still quit with them and help them stay quit if they were on fire. After all I am here to help quitters quit and stay quit.

Damn, this intro post helped me get my dopamine fix!

Selfishly yours in quit!

Quit on.
Is being a whiny victim or complaining about mean guys an alternative coping mechanism?
Edit- Sorry, I couldn't get through the whole page of nonsense dogshit, but I think I got the gist.
Damn that didn't take long.
Had second thoughts about being an asshole while complaining about assholes eh? Good edit.
Trying to walk the right path

Offline twballgame9

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Re: Quitting
« Reply #209 on: October 09, 2014, 04:38:00 PM »
Quote from: FMBM707
Quote from: Lipizzaner
Quote from: FMBM707
DAY 95 I'm starting to understand

I read some shit in MAYbe another group today and it really impacted me and opened my eyes. It was an 'aha' moment. My first response was to defend but after I thought about it I realized I needed to better understand.

So here's my open note to the "badass keyboard internet super duper typer tough guys" and their lackeys.

I need to adjust my thinking and realize this is part of the healing process for some.

Maybe some of the posts/actions of others that I don’t agree with is their coping mechanism for beating this addiction. When quitting a drug people cope in different ways. My aunt who is an alcoholic coped by starting both a caffeine and a nicotine addiction. She abused her body with alcohol for so long that it was ‘better’ for her to smoke cigarettes and drink coffee all day than it was to drink booze because the immediate effects of more alcohol were far more severe and life threatening than the effects of starting a nicotine addiction.

There's more than one reason not to drink alcohol in the first 50-100 days when quitting nicotine – it’s not only because it’s a trigger or some or because it lowers our inhibitions- drinking alcohol can replace your nicotine addiction. Our brains are starving for that dopamine fix and abusing booze can sate that need.

Some people turn to exercise, some people turn to booze, some people stuff their face with food and some people have to fulfill a deeper desire of attention (badasses) and acceptance (lackeys). Some probably do a bit of all and more. ItÂ’s our bodies seeking to replace the dopamine nicotine once gave us. It seems I've tried about everything above.

If you’ve read through any group you’ll eventually see someone say: “Take what you need and leave the rest.” That is the nice way of saying don’t listen to the attention grabbing whores who vomit mostly self-gratifying nonsense to get a rise because that’s how they cope. I need to recognize and understand that some get their fix from the attention (good or bad) and acceptance their posts generate. Maybe that is how they are filling that dopamine void. Where others can fill that void outside of the KTC web-site, others may NEED this web-site to get their dopamine fix. Although we don’t agree with what they say, maybe it’s time we recognize it, understand what it is, give them their attention fix and then move on because by doing so we are helping them and that is what we are here to do.

How to spot these internet tough guys: These tough guys call a lot of people names and have been called a few choice names themselves. ItÂ’s all part of getting their fix- thatÂ’s why you will see them at times go to great lengths for some sort of response, recognition or approval. And they wonÂ’t stop until the get it. Their desire for attention blinds them from a desire to help others quit nicotine. It's all really self-absorbed but hey, focus on your quit first right, then you can focus on others.

Much like some of us became expert ninja dippers, these internet badasses have become expert shit show, dumpster fire creating posters. You see them talk about themselves in the 3rd person or post questions like: “Can I jump in on this?” or “Do you want me to take this one?” or “Do you really want to go there?” You can watch them run back to their own quit group during the mayhem they either created or fueled searching for more of the attention they crave. You can also see (if you read through enough of their posts) that once their level of recognition and attention has been met they usually calm their post down and actually write something that is well-reasoned with intent to help. They are able to do this because their brain is no longer searching for that fix.

It use to piss me off to see guys in their own groups egging these individuals on by writing shit like, “Wait until so and so reads this” or “I can’t wait for so and so to get on here” or “So and so is going to have a field day with this” but now I understand that these guys are helping their brothers in quit stay quit by feeding their coping mechanism. Keep in mind these guys aren't lackeys- they are just guys that have recognized the need to feed this coping mechanism. Look at their posts, you can tell the difference between someone helping the internet badass get his fix and someone looking for acceptance from said internet badass.

That got me thinking about the lackeys. Even the lackeys that follow these ‘internet badasses’ around serve their purpose- they provide just enough attention while receiving acceptance in return. They feed off each other. You can see it plain as day. I believe someone described it as sharks in the water- they smell blood and they all come a runnin'. The internet tough guy will post an attention grabbing statement and one of his lackeys will come along and pile onto it, which in turns reinforces the 'badass' to continue because it got the desired effect of attention. It's a cycle of attention, acceptance, attention, acceptance etc. That's why you see it snow ball out of control.

Maybe the internet tough guys can get what they need and still help those that need help. There is a distinction between constructive criticism and plain ol' criticism. The distinction lies within the results they create. ItÂ’s easy to merely criticize, which is more times than not, demotivating. ItÂ’s much more difficult to make a point it in a constructive manner creating a positive result (ie. helping someone quit or stay quit).

That doesnÂ’t mean you canÂ’t be negative, it just means the negativity has to be presented in a manner that results in a positive result. A difficult thing to do. ItÂ’s not from a lack of intelligence that some folks on here donÂ’t usually attempt to be constructive. ItÂ’s because they are looking for their fix. We are all selfish, because we are all addicts. We use to selfishly rush off, or slink off, to stuff our faces with poison. These internet badasses quickly and selfishly spew a bunch of verbal diarrhea because it gets a reaction and it gets them their fix. If it doesn't immediately get a reaction just sit back and watch because they are going to ratchet up the intensity of their posts. It's them reaching out for help- that's what I need to understand. Recognize it early, tell them what a badass they are and then move on.

Some of these badass internet posters have posted some very good stuff after they've received their adequate amount of attention. Maybe it would be too much to ask for a constructive criticism approach first because itÂ’s too easy to spew the shock jock material and openly criticize. ItÂ’s much more difficult to constructively criticize because that means the focus is on someone or something other than themselves. The challenge is to be able to use both positive and negative comments in a manner that shows you are fighting on the same team. It may mean you do not get the attention you desire right away because you have to think about how to say something in a way that motivates someone to do something better and for the benefit of the whole. This is more difficult to do but the 'fix' from doing this is longer lasting.

Giving is getting.

Then again Mheybe I'm all wrong, and some of these guys are just bad human beings and enjoy hurting small animals.

So I might not piss on some of these guys if they were on fire but I'd still quit with them and help them stay quit if they were on fire. After all I am here to help quitters quit and stay quit.

Damn, this intro post helped me get my dopamine fix!

Selfishly yours in quit!

Quit on.
Is being a whiny victim or complaining about mean guys an alternative coping mechanism?
Edit- Sorry, I couldn't get through the whole page of nonsense dogshit, but I think I got the gist.
Damn that didn't take long.
Had second thoughts about being an asshole while complaining about assholes eh? Good edit.

Offline twballgame9

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Re: Quitting
« Reply #208 on: October 09, 2014, 04:37:00 PM »
Quote from: FMBM707
DAY 95 I'm starting to understand

I read some shit in MAYbe another group today and it really impacted me and opened my eyes. It was an 'aha' moment. My first response was to defend but after I thought about it I realized I needed to better understand.

So here's my open note to the "badass keyboard internet super duper typer tough guys" and their lackeys.

I need to adjust my thinking and realize this is part of the healing process for some.

Maybe some of the posts/actions of others that I don’t agree with is their coping mechanism for beating this addiction. When quitting a drug people cope in different ways. My aunt who is an alcoholic coped by starting both a caffeine and a nicotine addiction. She abused her body with alcohol for so long that it was ‘better’ for her to smoke cigarettes and drink coffee all day than it was to drink booze because the immediate effects of more alcohol were far more severe and life threatening than the effects of starting a nicotine addiction.

There's more than one reason not to drink alcohol in the first 50-100 days when quitting nicotine – it’s not only because it’s a trigger or some or because it lowers our inhibitions- drinking alcohol can replace your nicotine addiction. Our brains are starving for that dopamine fix and abusing booze can sate that need.

Some people turn to exercise, some people turn to booze, some people stuff their face with food and some people have to fulfill a deeper desire of attention (badasses) and acceptance (lackeys). Some probably do a bit of all and more. ItÂ’s our bodies seeking to replace the dopamine nicotine once gave us. It seems I've tried about everything above.

If you’ve read through any group you’ll eventually see someone say: “Take what you need and leave the rest.” That is the nice way of saying don’t listen to the attention grabbing whores who vomit mostly self-gratifying nonsense to get a rise because that’s how they cope. I need to recognize and understand that some get their fix from the attention (good or bad) and acceptance their posts generate. Maybe that is how they are filling that dopamine void. Where others can fill that void outside of the KTC web-site, others may NEED this web-site to get their dopamine fix. Although we don’t agree with what they say, maybe it’s time we recognize it, understand what it is, give them their attention fix and then move on because by doing so we are helping them and that is what we are here to do.

How to spot these internet tough guys: These tough guys call a lot of people names and have been called a few choice names themselves. ItÂ’s all part of getting their fix- thatÂ’s why you will see them at times go to great lengths for some sort of response, recognition or approval. And they wonÂ’t stop until the get it. Their desire for attention blinds them from a desire to help others quit nicotine. It's all really self-absorbed but hey, focus on your quit first right, then you can focus on others.

Much like some of us became expert ninja dippers, these internet badasses have become expert shit show, dumpster fire creating posters. You see them talk about themselves in the 3rd person or post questions like: “Can I jump in on this?” or “Do you want me to take this one?” or “Do you really want to go there?” You can watch them run back to their own quit group during the mayhem they either created or fueled searching for more of the attention they crave. You can also see (if you read through enough of their posts) that once their level of recognition and attention has been met they usually calm their post down and actually write something that is well-reasoned with intent to help. They are able to do this because their brain is no longer searching for that fix.

It use to piss me off to see guys in their own groups egging these individuals on by writing shit like, “Wait until so and so reads this” or “I can’t wait for so and so to get on here” or “So and so is going to have a field day with this” but now I understand that these guys are helping their brothers in quit stay quit by feeding their coping mechanism. Keep in mind these guys aren't lackeys- they are just guys that have recognized the need to feed this coping mechanism. Look at their posts, you can tell the difference between someone helping the internet badass get his fix and someone looking for acceptance from said internet badass.

That got me thinking about the lackeys. Even the lackeys that follow these ‘internet badasses’ around serve their purpose- they provide just enough attention while receiving acceptance in return. They feed off each other. You can see it plain as day. I believe someone described it as sharks in the water- they smell blood and they all come a runnin'. The internet tough guy will post an attention grabbing statement and one of his lackeys will come along and pile onto it, which in turns reinforces the 'badass' to continue because it got the desired effect of attention. It's a cycle of attention, acceptance, attention, acceptance etc. That's why you see it snow ball out of control.

Maybe the internet tough guys can get what they need and still help those that need help. There is a distinction between constructive criticism and plain ol' criticism. The distinction lies within the results they create. ItÂ’s easy to merely criticize, which is more times than not, demotivating. ItÂ’s much more difficult to make a point it in a constructive manner creating a positive result (ie. helping someone quit or stay quit).

That doesnÂ’t mean you canÂ’t be negative, it just means the negativity has to be presented in a manner that results in a positive result. A difficult thing to do. ItÂ’s not from a lack of intelligence that some folks on here donÂ’t usually attempt to be constructive. ItÂ’s because they are looking for their fix. We are all selfish, because we are all addicts. We use to selfishly rush off, or slink off, to stuff our faces with poison. These internet badasses quickly and selfishly spew a bunch of verbal diarrhea because it gets a reaction and it gets them their fix. If it doesn't immediately get a reaction just sit back and watch because they are going to ratchet up the intensity of their posts. It's them reaching out for help- that's what I need to understand. Recognize it early, tell them what a badass they are and then move on.

Some of these badass internet posters have posted some very good stuff after they've received their adequate amount of attention. Maybe it would be too much to ask for a constructive criticism approach first because itÂ’s too easy to spew the shock jock material and openly criticize. ItÂ’s much more difficult to constructively criticize because that means the focus is on someone or something other than themselves. The challenge is to be able to use both positive and negative comments in a manner that shows you are fighting on the same team. It may mean you do not get the attention you desire right away because you have to think about how to say something in a way that motivates someone to do something better and for the benefit of the whole. This is more difficult to do but the 'fix' from doing this is longer lasting.

Giving is getting.

Then again Mheybe I'm all wrong, and some of these guys are just bad human beings and enjoy hurting small animals.

So I might not piss on some of these guys if they were on fire but I'd still quit with them and help them stay quit if they were on fire. After all I am here to help quitters quit and stay quit.

Damn, this intro post helped me get my dopamine fix!

Selfishly yours in quit!

Quit on.
Found the Cliff Notes version

Offline FMBM707

  • Quitter
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  • Posts: 2,466
  • Quit Date: 2016-05-06
  • Likes Given: 0
Re: Quitting
« Reply #207 on: October 09, 2014, 04:32:00 PM »
Quote from: Lipizzaner
Quote from: FMBM707
DAY 95 I'm starting to understand

I read some shit in MAYbe another group today and it really impacted me and opened my eyes. It was an 'aha' moment. My first response was to defend but after I thought about it I realized I needed to better understand.

So here's my open note to the "badass keyboard internet super duper typer tough guys" and their lackeys.

I need to adjust my thinking and realize this is part of the healing process for some.

Maybe some of the posts/actions of others that I don’t agree with is their coping mechanism for beating this addiction. When quitting a drug people cope in different ways. My aunt who is an alcoholic coped by starting both a caffeine and a nicotine addiction. She abused her body with alcohol for so long that it was ‘better’ for her to smoke cigarettes and drink coffee all day than it was to drink booze because the immediate effects of more alcohol were far more severe and life threatening than the effects of starting a nicotine addiction.

There's more than one reason not to drink alcohol in the first 50-100 days when quitting nicotine – it’s not only because it’s a trigger or some or because it lowers our inhibitions- drinking alcohol can replace your nicotine addiction. Our brains are starving for that dopamine fix and abusing booze can sate that need.

Some people turn to exercise, some people turn to booze, some people stuff their face with food and some people have to fulfill a deeper desire of attention (badasses) and acceptance (lackeys). Some probably do a bit of all and more. ItÂ’s our bodies seeking to replace the dopamine nicotine once gave us. It seems I've tried about everything above.

If you’ve read through any group you’ll eventually see someone say: “Take what you need and leave the rest.” That is the nice way of saying don’t listen to the attention grabbing whores who vomit mostly self-gratifying nonsense to get a rise because that’s how they cope. I need to recognize and understand that some get their fix from the attention (good or bad) and acceptance their posts generate. Maybe that is how they are filling that dopamine void. Where others can fill that void outside of the KTC web-site, others may NEED this web-site to get their dopamine fix. Although we don’t agree with what they say, maybe it’s time we recognize it, understand what it is, give them their attention fix and then move on because by doing so we are helping them and that is what we are here to do.

How to spot these internet tough guys: These tough guys call a lot of people names and have been called a few choice names themselves. ItÂ’s all part of getting their fix- thatÂ’s why you will see them at times go to great lengths for some sort of response, recognition or approval. And they wonÂ’t stop until the get it. Their desire for attention blinds them from a desire to help others quit nicotine. It's all really self-absorbed but hey, focus on your quit first right, then you can focus on others.

Much like some of us became expert ninja dippers, these internet badasses have become expert shit show, dumpster fire creating posters. You see them talk about themselves in the 3rd person or post questions like: “Can I jump in on this?” or “Do you want me to take this one?” or “Do you really want to go there?” You can watch them run back to their own quit group during the mayhem they either created or fueled searching for more of the attention they crave. You can also see (if you read through enough of their posts) that once their level of recognition and attention has been met they usually calm their post down and actually write something that is well-reasoned with intent to help. They are able to do this because their brain is no longer searching for that fix.

It use to piss me off to see guys in their own groups egging these individuals on by writing shit like, “Wait until so and so reads this” or “I can’t wait for so and so to get on here” or “So and so is going to have a field day with this” but now I understand that these guys are helping their brothers in quit stay quit by feeding their coping mechanism. Keep in mind these guys aren't lackeys- they are just guys that have recognized the need to feed this coping mechanism. Look at their posts, you can tell the difference between someone helping the internet badass get his fix and someone looking for acceptance from said internet badass.

That got me thinking about the lackeys. Even the lackeys that follow these ‘internet badasses’ around serve their purpose- they provide just enough attention while receiving acceptance in return. They feed off each other. You can see it plain as day. I believe someone described it as sharks in the water- they smell blood and they all come a runnin'. The internet tough guy will post an attention grabbing statement and one of his lackeys will come along and pile onto it, which in turns reinforces the 'badass' to continue because it got the desired effect of attention. It's a cycle of attention, acceptance, attention, acceptance etc. That's why you see it snow ball out of control.

Maybe the internet tough guys can get what they need and still help those that need help. There is a distinction between constructive criticism and plain ol' criticism. The distinction lies within the results they create. ItÂ’s easy to merely criticize, which is more times than not, demotivating. ItÂ’s much more difficult to make a point it in a constructive manner creating a positive result (ie. helping someone quit or stay quit).

That doesnÂ’t mean you canÂ’t be negative, it just means the negativity has to be presented in a manner that results in a positive result. A difficult thing to do. ItÂ’s not from a lack of intelligence that some folks on here donÂ’t usually attempt to be constructive. ItÂ’s because they are looking for their fix. We are all selfish, because we are all addicts. We use to selfishly rush off, or slink off, to stuff our faces with poison. These internet badasses quickly and selfishly spew a bunch of verbal diarrhea because it gets a reaction and it gets them their fix. If it doesn't immediately get a reaction just sit back and watch because they are going to ratchet up the intensity of their posts. It's them reaching out for help- that's what I need to understand. Recognize it early, tell them what a badass they are and then move on.

Some of these badass internet posters have posted some very good stuff after they've received their adequate amount of attention. Maybe it would be too much to ask for a constructive criticism approach first because itÂ’s too easy to spew the shock jock material and openly criticize. ItÂ’s much more difficult to constructively criticize because that means the focus is on someone or something other than themselves. The challenge is to be able to use both positive and negative comments in a manner that shows you are fighting on the same team. It may mean you do not get the attention you desire right away because you have to think about how to say something in a way that motivates someone to do something better and for the benefit of the whole. This is more difficult to do but the 'fix' from doing this is longer lasting.

Giving is getting.

Then again Mheybe I'm all wrong, and some of these guys are just bad human beings and enjoy hurting small animals.

So I might not piss on some of these guys if they were on fire but I'd still quit with them and help them stay quit if they were on fire. After all I am here to help quitters quit and stay quit.

Damn, this intro post helped me get my dopamine fix!

Selfishly yours in quit!

Quit on.
Is being a whiny victim or complaining about mean guys an alternative coping mechanism?
Edit- Sorry, I couldn't get through the whole page of nonsense dogshit, but I think I got the gist.
Damn that didn't take long.

Offline Lipizzaner

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Re: Quitting
« Reply #206 on: October 09, 2014, 04:22:00 PM »
Quote from: FMBM707
DAY 95 I'm starting to understand

I read some shit in MAYbe another group today and it really impacted me and opened my eyes. It was an 'aha' moment. My first response was to defend but after I thought about it I realized I needed to better understand.

So here's my open note to the "badass keyboard internet super duper typer tough guys" and their lackeys.

I need to adjust my thinking and realize this is part of the healing process for some.

Maybe some of the posts/actions of others that I don’t agree with is their coping mechanism for beating this addiction. When quitting a drug people cope in different ways. My aunt who is an alcoholic coped by starting both a caffeine and a nicotine addiction. She abused her body with alcohol for so long that it was ‘better’ for her to smoke cigarettes and drink coffee all day than it was to drink booze because the immediate effects of more alcohol were far more severe and life threatening than the effects of starting a nicotine addiction.

There's more than one reason not to drink alcohol in the first 50-100 days when quitting nicotine – it’s not only because it’s a trigger or some or because it lowers our inhibitions- drinking alcohol can replace your nicotine addiction. Our brains are starving for that dopamine fix and abusing booze can sate that need.

Some people turn to exercise, some people turn to booze, some people stuff their face with food and some people have to fulfill a deeper desire of attention (badasses) and acceptance (lackeys). Some probably do a bit of all and more. ItÂ’s our bodies seeking to replace the dopamine nicotine once gave us. It seems I've tried about everything above.

If you’ve read through any group you’ll eventually see someone say: “Take what you need and leave the rest.” That is the nice way of saying don’t listen to the attention grabbing whores who vomit mostly self-gratifying nonsense to get a rise because that’s how they cope. I need to recognize and understand that some get their fix from the attention (good or bad) and acceptance their posts generate. Maybe that is how they are filling that dopamine void. Where others can fill that void outside of the KTC web-site, others may NEED this web-site to get their dopamine fix. Although we don’t agree with what they say, maybe it’s time we recognize it, understand what it is, give them their attention fix and then move on because by doing so we are helping them and that is what we are here to do.

How to spot these internet tough guys: These tough guys call a lot of people names and have been called a few choice names themselves. ItÂ’s all part of getting their fix- thatÂ’s why you will see them at times go to great lengths for some sort of response, recognition or approval. And they wonÂ’t stop until the get it. Their desire for attention blinds them from a desire to help others quit nicotine. It's all really self-absorbed but hey, focus on your quit first right, then you can focus on others.

Much like some of us became expert ninja dippers, these internet badasses have become expert shit show, dumpster fire creating posters. You see them talk about themselves in the 3rd person or post questions like: “Can I jump in on this?” or “Do you want me to take this one?” or “Do you really want to go there?” You can watch them run back to their own quit group during the mayhem they either created or fueled searching for more of the attention they crave. You can also see (if you read through enough of their posts) that once their level of recognition and attention has been met they usually calm their post down and actually write something that is well-reasoned with intent to help. They are able to do this because their brain is no longer searching for that fix.

It use to piss me off to see guys in their own groups egging these individuals on by writing shit like, “Wait until so and so reads this” or “I can’t wait for so and so to get on here” or “So and so is going to have a field day with this” but now I understand that these guys are helping their brothers in quit stay quit by feeding their coping mechanism. Keep in mind these guys aren't lackeys- they are just guys that have recognized the need to feed this coping mechanism. Look at their posts, you can tell the difference between someone helping the internet badass get his fix and someone looking for acceptance from said internet badass.

That got me thinking about the lackeys. Even the lackeys that follow these ‘internet badasses’ around serve their purpose- they provide just enough attention while receiving acceptance in return. They feed off each other. You can see it plain as day. I believe someone described it as sharks in the water- they smell blood and they all come a runnin'. The internet tough guy will post an attention grabbing statement and one of his lackeys will come along and pile onto it, which in turns reinforces the 'badass' to continue because it got the desired effect of attention. It's a cycle of attention, acceptance, attention, acceptance etc. That's why you see it snow ball out of control.

Maybe the internet tough guys can get what they need and still help those that need help. There is a distinction between constructive criticism and plain ol' criticism. The distinction lies within the results they create. ItÂ’s easy to merely criticize, which is more times than not, demotivating. ItÂ’s much more difficult to make a point it in a constructive manner creating a positive result (ie. helping someone quit or stay quit).

That doesnÂ’t mean you canÂ’t be negative, it just means the negativity has to be presented in a manner that results in a positive result. A difficult thing to do. ItÂ’s not from a lack of intelligence that some folks on here donÂ’t usually attempt to be constructive. ItÂ’s because they are looking for their fix. We are all selfish, because we are all addicts. We use to selfishly rush off, or slink off, to stuff our faces with poison. These internet badasses quickly and selfishly spew a bunch of verbal diarrhea because it gets a reaction and it gets them their fix. If it doesn't immediately get a reaction just sit back and watch because they are going to ratchet up the intensity of their posts. It's them reaching out for help- that's what I need to understand. Recognize it early, tell them what a badass they are and then move on.

Some of these badass internet posters have posted some very good stuff after they've received their adequate amount of attention. Maybe it would be too much to ask for a constructive criticism approach first because itÂ’s too easy to spew the shock jock material and openly criticize. ItÂ’s much more difficult to constructively criticize because that means the focus is on someone or something other than themselves. The challenge is to be able to use both positive and negative comments in a manner that shows you are fighting on the same team. It may mean you do not get the attention you desire right away because you have to think about how to say something in a way that motivates someone to do something better and for the benefit of the whole. This is more difficult to do but the 'fix' from doing this is longer lasting.

Giving is getting.

Then again Mheybe I'm all wrong, and some of these guys are just bad human beings and enjoy hurting small animals.

So I might not piss on some of these guys if they were on fire but I'd still quit with them and help them stay quit if they were on fire. After all I am here to help quitters quit and stay quit.

Damn, this intro post helped me get my dopamine fix!

Selfishly yours in quit!

Quit on.
Is being a whiny victim or complaining about mean guys an alternative coping mechanism?
Edit- Sorry, I couldn't get through the whole page of nonsense dogshit, but I think I got the gist.

Offline FMBM707

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Re: Quitting
« Reply #205 on: October 09, 2014, 02:31:00 PM »
DAY 95 I'm starting to understand

I read some shit in MAYbe another group today and it really impacted me and opened my eyes. It was an 'aha' moment. My first response was to defend but after I thought about it I realized I needed to better understand.

So here's my open note to the "badass keyboard internet super duper typer tough guys" and their lackeys.

I need to adjust my thinking and realize this is part of the healing process for some.

Maybe some of the posts/actions of others that I don’t agree with is their coping mechanism for beating this addiction. When quitting a drug people cope in different ways. My aunt who is an alcoholic coped by starting both a caffeine and a nicotine addiction. She abused her body with alcohol for so long that it was ‘better’ for her to smoke cigarettes and drink coffee all day than it was to drink booze because the immediate effects of more alcohol were far more severe and life threatening than the effects of starting a nicotine addiction.

There's more than one reason not to drink alcohol in the first 50-100 days when quitting nicotine – it’s not only because it’s a trigger or some or because it lowers our inhibitions- drinking alcohol can replace your nicotine addiction. Our brains are starving for that dopamine fix and abusing booze can sate that need.

Some people turn to exercise, some people turn to booze, some people stuff their face with food and some people have to fulfill a deeper desire of attention (badasses) and acceptance (lackeys). Some probably do a bit of all and more. ItÂ’s our bodies seeking to replace the dopamine nicotine once gave us. It seems I've tried about everything above.

If you’ve read through any group you’ll eventually see someone say: “Take what you need and leave the rest.” That is the nice way of saying don’t listen to the attention grabbing whores who vomit mostly self-gratifying nonsense to get a rise because that’s how they cope. I need to recognize and understand that some get their fix from the attention (good or bad) and acceptance their posts generate. Maybe that is how they are filling that dopamine void. Where others can fill that void outside of the KTC web-site, others may NEED this web-site to get their dopamine fix. Although we don’t agree with what they say, maybe it’s time we recognize it, understand what it is, give them their attention fix and then move on because by doing so we are helping them and that is what we are here to do.

How to spot these internet tough guys: These tough guys call a lot of people names and have been called a few choice names themselves. ItÂ’s all part of getting their fix- thatÂ’s why you will see them at times go to great lengths for some sort of response, recognition or approval. And they wonÂ’t stop until the get it. Their desire for attention blinds them from a desire to help others quit nicotine. It's all really self-absorbed but hey, focus on your quit first right, then you can focus on others.

Much like some of us became expert ninja dippers, these internet badasses have become expert shit show, dumpster fire creating posters. You see them talk about themselves in the 3rd person or post questions like: “Can I jump in on this?” or “Do you want me to take this one?” or “Do you really want to go there?” You can watch them run back to their own quit group during the mayhem they either created or fueled searching for more of the attention they crave. You can also see (if you read through enough of their posts) that once their level of recognition and attention has been met they usually calm their post down and actually write something that is well-reasoned with intent to help. They are able to do this because their brain is no longer searching for that fix.

It use to piss me off to see guys in their own groups egging these individuals on by writing shit like, “Wait until so and so reads this” or “I can’t wait for so and so to get on here” or “So and so is going to have a field day with this” but now I understand that these guys are helping their brothers in quit stay quit by feeding their coping mechanism. Keep in mind these guys aren't lackeys- they are just guys that have recognized the need to feed this coping mechanism. Look at their posts, you can tell the difference between someone helping the internet badass get his fix and someone looking for acceptance from said internet badass.

That got me thinking about the lackeys. Even the lackeys that follow these ‘internet badasses’ around serve their purpose- they provide just enough attention while receiving acceptance in return. They feed off each other. You can see it plain as day. I believe someone described it as sharks in the water- they smell blood and they all come a runnin'. The internet tough guy will post an attention grabbing statement and one of his lackeys will come along and pile onto it, which in turns reinforces the 'badass' to continue because it got the desired effect of attention. It's a cycle of attention, acceptance, attention, acceptance etc. That's why you see it snow ball out of control.

Maybe the internet tough guys can get what they need and still help those that need help. There is a distinction between constructive criticism and plain ol' criticism. The distinction lies within the results they create. ItÂ’s easy to merely criticize, which is more times than not, demotivating. ItÂ’s much more difficult to make a point it in a constructive manner creating a positive result (ie. helping someone quit or stay quit).

That doesnÂ’t mean you canÂ’t be negative, it just means the negativity has to be presented in a manner that results in a positive result. A difficult thing to do. ItÂ’s not from a lack of intelligence that some folks on here donÂ’t usually attempt to be constructive. ItÂ’s because they are looking for their fix. We are all selfish, because we are all addicts. We use to selfishly rush off, or slink off, to stuff our faces with poison. These internet badasses quickly and selfishly spew a bunch of verbal diarrhea because it gets a reaction and it gets them their fix. If it doesn't immediately get a reaction just sit back and watch because they are going to ratchet up the intensity of their posts. It's them reaching out for help- that's what I need to understand. Recognize it early, tell them what a badass they are and then move on.

Some of these badass internet posters have posted some very good stuff after they've received their adequate amount of attention. Maybe it would be too much to ask for a constructive criticism approach first because itÂ’s too easy to spew the shock jock material and openly criticize. ItÂ’s much more difficult to constructively criticize because that means the focus is on someone or something other than themselves. The challenge is to be able to use both positive and negative comments in a manner that shows you are fighting on the same team. It may mean you do not get the attention you desire right away because you have to think about how to say something in a way that motivates someone to do something better and for the benefit of the whole. This is more difficult to do but the 'fix' from doing this is longer lasting.

Giving is getting.

Then again Mheybe I'm all wrong, and some of these guys are just bad human beings and enjoy hurting small animals.

So I might not piss on some of these guys if they were on fire but I'd still quit with them and help them stay quit if they were on fire. After all I am here to help quitters quit and stay quit.

Damn, this intro post helped me get my dopamine fix!

Selfishly yours in quit!

Quit on.

Offline Dagranger

  • Quit Pro
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Re: Quitting
« Reply #204 on: October 06, 2014, 05:27:00 PM »
Quote from: Thumblewort
Quote from: gmann
Quote from: FMBM707
Day 92 Thank you all for the support! Man the funk was real for awhile but it's gone. The door is closed, the quit is secure and I'm feeling great.

Yesterday was awesome! I took my dog and my girls to Lowes in the morning (usually a trigger), bought flowers, fire ant killer (that's a whole other story- those little fuckers tried to kill me Saturday), and some other shit for the outside. Got home and we planted the flowers (working outside usually a trigger), washed both cars (usually a trigger- getting the picture yet), trimmed and mowed the yard (usually a trigger), worked out, cleaned the garage (usually a trigger), hit the grocery store to buy stuff to grill, grilled (usually a trigger)- I was fucking on it! And during the whole time death dip didn't even cross my mind! I hadn't had a day like that in weeks! IT WAS FUCKING AWESOME! IT'S A DAY LIKE YESTERDAY WHEN I COULD REALLY ENJOY THE FREEDOM!

Of course NIC the BITCH decided to make an appearance- it wasn't until late last night when I was watching football and baseball and one of my neighbors was over who chewed all the time. We hadn't hung out in over 3 months and there has never been a time that when we hung out we weren't both stuffing our faces with pinches of poison from the cancer can. He noticed I wasn't chewing and immediately asked how long I had been quit- told him proudly that I had been quit for 91 days, free from that evil ass bitch nic. To my surprise he told me he has been quit for 14 days. I told him about KTC and how awesome it has been as a tool to assist in my quit. He wasn't too keen on being a member of a quit site but I think I at least convinced him to check it out as a non member and read through some of the great stuff on the web-site.

Appreciate you all for your continued support- QUIT WITH ALL OF YOU ODAAT!

QLF EDD

QUIT ON! QUIT RIGHT! BURN THE BOATS! FEED THE GOOD WOLF!

Do what it takes to keep quit- it's worth it.
Lots of people come here and just read and ultimately quit. I would suppose that their percentage chance of closing the door and being quit is far less than those who post roll and contribute here, but there are success stories out there. Your chances are always better when you know what to expect and you know that others have done it and didn't die, which is what reading this site will tell you and show you.

Sorry, got off message there. Was just going to tell you that I dig your quit and look forward to seeing you around here for a long time to come. The Countdown to the hall is on.
FMBM has gotten it from Day 1! Proud to be with you dude.
Congrats dude...huge accomplishment and I love where your quit is going....one word of caution...100 days does not signify the end of craves or the end of funks. Just keep you head on a swivel like you have.

Offline Thumblewort

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Re: Quitting
« Reply #203 on: October 06, 2014, 03:41:00 PM »
Quote from: gmann
Quote from: FMBM707
Day 92 Thank you all for the support! Man the funk was real for awhile but it's gone. The door is closed, the quit is secure and I'm feeling great.

Yesterday was awesome! I took my dog and my girls to Lowes in the morning (usually a trigger), bought flowers, fire ant killer (that's a whole other story- those little fuckers tried to kill me Saturday), and some other shit for the outside. Got home and we planted the flowers (working outside usually a trigger), washed both cars (usually a trigger- getting the picture yet), trimmed and mowed the yard (usually a trigger), worked out, cleaned the garage (usually a trigger), hit the grocery store to buy stuff to grill, grilled (usually a trigger)- I was fucking on it! And during the whole time death dip didn't even cross my mind! I hadn't had a day like that in weeks! IT WAS FUCKING AWESOME! IT'S A DAY LIKE YESTERDAY WHEN I COULD REALLY ENJOY THE FREEDOM!

Of course NIC the BITCH decided to make an appearance- it wasn't until late last night when I was watching football and baseball and one of my neighbors was over who chewed all the time. We hadn't hung out in over 3 months and there has never been a time that when we hung out we weren't both stuffing our faces with pinches of poison from the cancer can. He noticed I wasn't chewing and immediately asked how long I had been quit- told him proudly that I had been quit for 91 days, free from that evil ass bitch nic. To my surprise he told me he has been quit for 14 days. I told him about KTC and how awesome it has been as a tool to assist in my quit. He wasn't too keen on being a member of a quit site but I think I at least convinced him to check it out as a non member and read through some of the great stuff on the web-site.

Appreciate you all for your continued support- QUIT WITH ALL OF YOU ODAAT!

QLF EDD

QUIT ON! QUIT RIGHT! BURN THE BOATS! FEED THE GOOD WOLF!

Do what it takes to keep quit- it's worth it.
Lots of people come here and just read and ultimately quit. I would suppose that their percentage chance of closing the door and being quit is far less than those who post roll and contribute here, but there are success stories out there. Your chances are always better when you know what to expect and you know that others have done it and didn't die, which is what reading this site will tell you and show you.

Sorry, got off message there. Was just going to tell you that I dig your quit and look forward to seeing you around here for a long time to come. The Countdown to the hall is on.
FMBM has gotten it from Day 1! Proud to be with you dude.
Some of my fondest and clearest memories are peeing in places that aren't bathrooms.

Offline G

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Re: Quitting
« Reply #202 on: October 06, 2014, 03:06:00 PM »
Quote from: FMBM707
Day 92 Thank you all for the support! Man the funk was real for awhile but it's gone. The door is closed, the quit is secure and I'm feeling great.

Yesterday was awesome! I took my dog and my girls to Lowes in the morning (usually a trigger), bought flowers, fire ant killer (that's a whole other story- those little fuckers tried to kill me Saturday), and some other shit for the outside. Got home and we planted the flowers (working outside usually a trigger), washed both cars (usually a trigger- getting the picture yet), trimmed and mowed the yard (usually a trigger), worked out, cleaned the garage (usually a trigger), hit the grocery store to buy stuff to grill, grilled (usually a trigger)- I was fucking on it! And during the whole time death dip didn't even cross my mind! I hadn't had a day like that in weeks! IT WAS FUCKING AWESOME! IT'S A DAY LIKE YESTERDAY WHEN I COULD REALLY ENJOY THE FREEDOM!

Of course NIC the BITCH decided to make an appearance- it wasn't until late last night when I was watching football and baseball and one of my neighbors was over who chewed all the time. We hadn't hung out in over 3 months and there has never been a time that when we hung out we weren't both stuffing our faces with pinches of poison from the cancer can. He noticed I wasn't chewing and immediately asked how long I had been quit- told him proudly that I had been quit for 91 days, free from that evil ass bitch nic. To my surprise he told me he has been quit for 14 days. I told him about KTC and how awesome it has been as a tool to assist in my quit. He wasn't too keen on being a member of a quit site but I think I at least convinced him to check it out as a non member and read through some of the great stuff on the web-site.

Appreciate you all for your continued support- QUIT WITH ALL OF YOU ODAAT!

QLF EDD

QUIT ON! QUIT RIGHT! BURN THE BOATS! FEED THE GOOD WOLF!

Do what it takes to keep quit- it's worth it.
Lots of people come here and just read and ultimately quit. I would suppose that their percentage chance of closing the door and being quit is far less than those who post roll and contribute here, but there are success stories out there. Your chances are always better when you know what to expect and you know that others have done it and didn't die, which is what reading this site will tell you and show you.

Sorry, got off message there. Was just going to tell you that I dig your quit and look forward to seeing you around here for a long time to come. The Countdown to the hall is on.

Offline FMBM707

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Re: Quitting
« Reply #201 on: October 06, 2014, 07:38:00 AM »
Day 92 Thank you all for the support! Man the funk was real for awhile but it's gone. The door is closed, the quit is secure and I'm feeling great.

Yesterday was awesome! I took my dog and my girls to Lowes in the morning (usually a trigger), bought flowers, fire ant killer (that's a whole other story- those little fuckers tried to kill me Saturday), and some other shit for the outside. Got home and we planted the flowers (working outside usually a trigger), washed both cars (usually a trigger- getting the picture yet), trimmed and mowed the yard (usually a trigger), worked out, cleaned the garage (usually a trigger), hit the grocery store to buy stuff to grill, grilled (usually a trigger)- I was fucking on it! And during the whole time death dip didn't even cross my mind! I hadn't had a day like that in weeks! IT WAS FUCKING AWESOME! IT'S A DAY LIKE YESTERDAY WHEN I COULD REALLY ENJOY THE FREEDOM!

Of course NIC the BITCH decided to make an appearance- it wasn't until late last night when I was watching football and baseball and one of my neighbors was over who chewed all the time. We hadn't hung out in over 3 months and there has never been a time that when we hung out we weren't both stuffing our faces with pinches of poison from the cancer can. He noticed I wasn't chewing and immediately asked how long I had been quit- told him proudly that I had been quit for 91 days, free from that evil ass bitch nic. To my surprise he told me he has been quit for 14 days. I told him about KTC and how awesome it has been as a tool to assist in my quit. He wasn't too keen on being a member of a quit site but I think I at least convinced him to check it out as a non member and read through some of the great stuff on the web-site.

Appreciate you all for your continued support- QUIT WITH ALL OF YOU ODAAT!

QLF EDD

QUIT ON! QUIT RIGHT! BURN THE BOATS! FEED THE GOOD WOLF!

Do what it takes to keep quit- it's worth it.

Offline cbird65

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Re: Quitting
« Reply #200 on: October 06, 2014, 07:18:00 AM »
The beauty of quit is after the clear our minds from the nic abuse, we can clearly see other areas in our lives that need to be changed as well. Good, better, best ...... never let it rest
Until my good is better and my better is best
Damn ... flashbacks from childhood
Believe Me

FLOOR 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 ,11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19,, 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29,,, 31 32 33 34 35 36 37 38 39
 ,,,,41 42 43 44 45 46


Assurance

Offline rainfire

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Re: Quitting
« Reply #199 on: October 06, 2014, 02:32:00 AM »
Proud to be your brother in October.
I enjoy our chats and knowing I can bitch to you or just talk to you about anything and you're there as a friend.
I quit with you today and everyday brother.

Offline rdad

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Re: Quitting
« Reply #198 on: October 05, 2014, 06:18:00 PM »
Quote from: CavMan83
Quote from: danojeno
Quote from: FMBM707
...Being quit is a positive and when shit goes wrong it may be the only fucking positive you have going on so fucking hold onto that. Example: My wife left me, I lost my job, my dog died, etc etc.- that all sucks BUT AT LEAST I'M QUIT. No matter what happens being quit is always a positive. If you stay quit there will always be something positive in your life.

Quitters find reasons to stay quit, cavers find excuses to cave.

Quit on.
So true. About 7 years ago, I was involved in something at work that was life changing. It was just the excuse I needed to cave and ruin a year-long stoppage. Like you and so many smarter than me have said. Problem + nicotine = 2 problems. I didn't know how deep your funk was and that is my bad. You are an inspiration to many on here and I quit with you.
Steve,

Wanted to echo dano's comment...you are a solid inspiration to many, many quitters on this site. Enjoy reading your words of wisdom scattered here and there like seeds of truth! It is plain that you have this. You are owning this quit and doing the work required every day to beat it into submission. Proud of you.
FormebyMe,
You have the knowledge of the truth about nicotine. You have to CLOSE THAT DOOR! There is nothing good back there. True freedom has a price and you are paying it every morning that you post your promise. I quit with you ODAAT.

Offline CavMan83

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Re: Quitting
« Reply #197 on: October 03, 2014, 09:13:00 AM »
Quote from: danojeno
Quote from: FMBM707
...Being quit is a positive and when shit goes wrong it may be the only fucking positive you have going on so fucking hold onto that. Example: My wife left me, I lost my job, my dog died, etc etc.- that all sucks BUT AT LEAST I'M QUIT. No matter what happens being quit is always a positive. If you stay quit there will always be something positive in your life.

Quitters find reasons to stay quit, cavers find excuses to cave.

Quit on.
So true. About 7 years ago, I was involved in something at work that was life changing. It was just the excuse I needed to cave and ruin a year-long stoppage. Like you and so many smarter than me have said. Problem + nicotine = 2 problems. I didn't know how deep your funk was and that is my bad. You are an inspiration to many on here and I quit with you.
Steve,

Wanted to echo dano's comment...you are a solid inspiration to many, many quitters on this site. Enjoy reading your words of wisdom scattered here and there like seeds of truth! It is plain that you have this. You are owning this quit and doing the work required every day to beat it into submission. Proud of you.

Offline danojeno

  • Quit Date March 2, 2015
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Re: Quitting
« Reply #196 on: October 02, 2014, 07:59:00 PM »
Quote from: FMBM707
...Being quit is a positive and when shit goes wrong it may be the only fucking positive you have going on so fucking hold onto that. Example: My wife left me, I lost my job, my dog died, etc etc.- that all sucks BUT AT LEAST I'M QUIT. No matter what happens being quit is always a positive. If you stay quit there will always be something positive in your life.

Quitters find reasons to stay quit, cavers find excuses to cave.

Quit on.
So true. About 7 years ago, I was involved in something at work that was life changing. It was just the excuse I needed to cave and ruin a year-long stoppage. Like you and so many smarter than me have said. Problem + nicotine = 2 problems. I didn't know how deep your funk was and that is my bad. You are an inspiration to many on here and I quit with you.