Addiction & lies

[Notdeadyet]

Quit or don't quit. If you don't quit you do not belong here.

Keep your word or lie. If you lie you do not belong here.

Seems harsh, eh? Well that is real life. There are consequences for your actions in real life.

There are winners and losers. We don't hand out participation ribbons. Fuck we screwed up the Gen Y'ers and Gen X'ers with all the fucking coddling.

2nd chance? 3rd chance? 4th chance? 5th chance? Where are you going to draw the line? Wait too long and this entire site will be poisoned.

[J2b]

My blood is on the verge of boiling at the disrespect of this site and everything it stands for. This site is my salvation from a life of slavery. This site has given me more time with my sons. This site helped me through some of the most difficult times of my life, without a crutch or the faintest desire to stuff death in my face.

Those of you that think you are "supporting" scott need to look in the mirror. You are NOT supporting, you are ENABLING him. Life is a harsh mistress, filled with all sorts of shitty situations and choices. The great thing is we all have the freedom to handle those situations how we see fit, and the freedom to make choices on how to conduct ourselves.

Scott chose to cave (shitty, but forgivable). He then chose to lie about it. You dont understand why so many are so upset? Start at the basics - Why we post roll.. You dont get to come into our sanctuary and shit on the floor then expect us to welcome you back.

Where is the accountability? There is nothing here if not for that. Can you honestly say you trust his word when he posts roll?

Sorry, but some things can be forgiven and trust rebuilt. Caving, for example. But putting your name down on the line and using is not one of them in my opinion. Scott clearly went to extremes to cover up his lie, then expects us to forget it because its "been a year." I may very well forget it scott, but I will never forgive. Your actions were/are disrespectful to everyone who has put in the blood sweat and tears to make this place what it is.

I do hope you quit and have a long, healthy, nicotine free life. I just cannot trust you to help my brothers and sisters do the same.

[jhaenel23]

I'm quit with my group...that includes scott...yeah the support i got was great...mainly from russell and a handful of others...i'm good with them...but most of them are either staying away from this topic because it doesn't concern them or supporting this young man.  Those are the people i'm here for...diesel you sound like a bitter woman who has been cheated on....so blow it out YOUR ass....and by the way, that come back was in style in the 80's....so really FUCK OFF

jay,

don't ever accept caving. always hold the caver accountable. if that means calling him a cocksucker, then do that. if you prefer making him answer the three questions, then do that. what you shouldn't do is come in here and call folks a buncha meanies. ol' macek caved. and lied. direct your efforts to holding him accountable. keeping his word is apparently busting his ass, so he needs all the help he can get and many folks, understandably, have little interest in helping a liar.

swap numbers with macek and y'all hold each other accountable.

Here's the problem...you are an addict right? And a human being right? I don't know you and you don't know me...correct? You and and or anyone else have no idea what he was going through in his life when he slipped up right? I don't know if scott is a "cocksucker" or not. I don't know if you are or not...i do know that i'm not going to stand by and let a bunch of blow hards run a guy down who came back, admitted his mistakes and is trying to better himself.

I've only been on this site for 14 days as my intro suggests, however I do think that what makes forums like this work or not work is a general level of respect you show to the fellow posters. If one out of 14000 can get some people SOOOO pissed off that they are trying to push him off the cliff instead of pulling him back then i feel like those are so weak minded that i would question their quits as well. I'm off this thread though...and again, diesel, and all those that ripped this guy apart...stay clear of me please. I don't need your kind of help.

oh but you will not only need their help.... you will want it someday I promise you that. one day you will see young one that what seems like harshness my just be saving a life. you cant see the forest because of the trees my young quit brother.

no trust me cdaniels...i have plenty of numbers i can call and people to lean on in my bad times, i won't forget all this bs.

I don't think you get it quite yet. His former group members aren't just angry with him for caving.

They are angry because he's a serial liar. Trust and accountability are the core tenets of this site. He broke those and broke them bad.

Cavers come back all the time, take a few lumps and integrate back in. But posting roll while dipping and creating a new username are pretty serious offenses and show a complete lack of integrity and character.

This is why others are raking this guy over the coals and telling to to take to lite. Sometime it's best to cut your losses.

I see that the Scott has posted a Day 3 in his new group. Normally I would be happy for him and may even reach out because that was a long day for me. I never once read a post on the KTC and had any doubt that it was the truth until I heard Scott's story. He could post Day 100 for all I care. It doesnt mean a thing.

We do make mistakes and we are human. But what he did is a sign of his true character. He would have gotten away with it if admin would not have caught it. So, the only reason why we know what we know is because he was caught not because he confessed. People who come back and admit they fucked up, explain why and how they are going to be successful this time are the people I have time for. Even if it has been more than once. What he did goes against every single principle of this site. Post Roll, KEEP YOUR WORD and Repeat. Its that simple.

I am sorry that some of you cannot see how grave the infractions are that he committed. I am sorry that you dont see how serious quitting is to US as it should be to YOU. 30% make it to HOF. I fear that not taking these things as serious as us "OLD" guys do leaves you open to bad things. I only treat people as I expect to be treated. If I were to cave I would expect to get thrashed. I am not being a dick for the sake of being a Dick. If there are no consequences for caving then how do we keep peeps accountable? I have seen Hundreds of people come on here all fired up and ready to QUIT. 70% of them fail. Most of those people run off to never be heard from again. Some come back hat in hand and fess up and post a Day 1. One tried to beat the system and was caught. We've already put too much time and effort into this one person. Lets go save some quits of people we can trust.

Keep posting a +1 everyday! Only you know whether you are quit or not.

Keep on Quitting!!

J

bump

[kana]

I'm quit with my group...that includes scott...yeah the support i got was great...mainly from russell and a handful of others...i'm good with them...but most of them are either staying away from this topic because it doesn't concern them or supporting this young man.  Those are the people i'm here for...diesel you sound like a bitter woman who has been cheated on....so blow it out YOUR ass....and by the way, that come back was in style in the 80's....so really FUCK OFF

jay,

don't ever accept caving. always hold the caver accountable. if that means calling him a cocksucker, then do that. if you prefer making him answer the three questions, then do that. what you shouldn't do is come in here and call folks a buncha meanies. ol' macek caved. and lied. direct your efforts to holding him accountable. keeping his word is apparently busting his ass, so he needs all the help he can get and many folks, understandably, have little interest in helping a liar.

swap numbers with macek and y'all hold each other accountable.

Here's the problem...you are an addict right? And a human being right? I don't know you and you don't know me...correct? You and and or anyone else have no idea what he was going through in his life when he slipped up right? I don't know if scott is a "cocksucker" or not. I don't know if you are or not...i do know that i'm not going to stand by and let a bunch of blow hards run a guy down who came back, admitted his mistakes and is trying to better himself.

I've only been on this site for 14 days as my intro suggests, however I do think that what makes forums like this work or not work is a general level of respect you show to the fellow posters. If one out of 14000 can get some people SOOOO pissed off that they are trying to push him off the cliff instead of pulling him back then i feel like those are so weak minded that i would question their quits as well. I'm off this thread though...and again, diesel, and all those that ripped this guy apart...stay clear of me please. I don't need your kind of help.

I think most people on this site would agree that gmann is a cocksucker, but I have always wondered how they would know.

On to the topic at hand. It is great that you have reached your hand out to Scott, after reading through this he really needs it.

Every person has a different level of tolerance for any action. For example, most people will not accept cheating on them by their spouse, for me, I would end my 24 years of marriage over that in a heartbeat. To me fidelity is sacred and if my spouse broke that there could never be trust again. Others may allow it to happen over an over again because their tolerance level is different.

The fact that Scott continued to post when he was not quit is what has people riled up. To many people on this site roll is sacred. You do not post roll if you are not nicotine free. Doing so creates lots of trust issues.

Ultimately it is up to the powers at be on whether to allow him back on this site or not, but, none of that has to effect you Jay. If you feel strongly about helping Scott with his quit you can do that even without this site.

For myself, I am too new here and have not yet established the right to judge others, but, I hope this time Scott has taken enough lumps to strengthen his quit, but only time will tell.

I'm an addict. But I guess me and lots of other folks have miraculously managed not to cave and continue posting roll like lying ass dogs, so I'm being unreasonable by not rolling out the red carpet for this gentleman.

I never said Scott doesn't deserve another chance. I hope he is able to become a non-using addict. Fine with me if he does it here and y'all sing peace songs and protest injustice at every turn. But the integrity of roll call and this site is far more important than one guy who will take a dump on it when things start getting a little tough.

anyone remember scowicks life raft metaphor? That would be a good one for this topic..

[jhaenel23]

I'm quit with my group...that includes scott...yeah the support i got was great...mainly from russell and a handful of others...i'm good with them...but most of them are either staying away from this topic because it doesn't concern them or supporting this young man.  Those are the people i'm here for...diesel you sound like a bitter woman who has been cheated on....so blow it out YOUR ass....and by the way, that come back was in style in the 80's....so really FUCK OFF

jay,

don't ever accept caving. always hold the caver accountable. if that means calling him a cocksucker, then do that. if you prefer making him answer the three questions, then do that. what you shouldn't do is come in here and call folks a buncha meanies. ol' macek caved. and lied. direct your efforts to holding him accountable. keeping his word is apparently busting his ass, so he needs all the help he can get and many folks, understandably, have little interest in helping a liar.

swap numbers with macek and y'all hold each other accountable.

Here's the problem...you are an addict right? And a human being right? I don't know you and you don't know me...correct? You and and or anyone else have no idea what he was going through in his life when he slipped up right? I don't know if scott is a "cocksucker" or not. I don't know if you are or not...i do know that i'm not going to stand by and let a bunch of blow hards run a guy down who came back, admitted his mistakes and is trying to better himself.

I've only been on this site for 14 days as my intro suggests, however I do think that what makes forums like this work or not work is a general level of respect you show to the fellow posters. If one out of 14000 can get some people SOOOO pissed off that they are trying to push him off the cliff instead of pulling him back then i feel like those are so weak minded that i would question their quits as well. I'm off this thread though...and again, diesel, and all those that ripped this guy apart...stay clear of me please. I don't need your kind of help.

oh but you will not only need their help.... you will want it someday I promise you that. one day you will see young one that what seems like harshness my just be saving a life. you cant see the forest because of the trees my young quit brother.

no trust me cdaniels...i have plenty of numbers i can call and people to lean on in my bad times, i won't forget all this bs.

I don't think you get it quite yet. His former group members aren't just angry with him for caving.

They are angry because he's a serial liar. Trust and accountability are the core tenets of this site. He broke those and broke them bad.

Cavers come back all the time, take a few lumps and integrate back in. But posting roll while dipping and creating a new username are pretty serious offenses and show a complete lack of integrity and character.

This is why others are raking this guy over the coals and telling to to take to lite. Sometime it's best to cut your losses.

I see that the Scott has posted a Day 3 in his new group. Normally I would be happy for him and may even reach out because that was a long day for me. I never once read a post on the KTC and had any doubt that it was the truth until I heard Scott's story. He could post Day 100 for all I care. It doesnt mean a thing.

We do make mistakes and we are human. But what he did is a sign of his true character. He would have gotten away with it if admin would not have caught it. So, the only reason why we know what we know is because he was caught not because he confessed. People who come back and admit they fucked up, explain why and how they are going to be successful this time are the people I have time for. Even if it has been more than once. What he did goes against every single principle of this site. Post Roll, KEEP YOUR WORD and Repeat. Its that simple.

I am sorry that some of you cannot see how grave the infractions are that he committed. I am sorry that you dont see how serious quitting is to US as it should be to YOU. 30% make it to HOF. I fear that not taking these things as serious as us "OLD" guys do leaves you open to bad things. I only treat people as I expect to be treated. If I were to cave I would expect to get thrashed. I am not being a dick for the sake of being a Dick. If there are no consequences for caving then how do we keep peeps accountable? I have seen Hundreds of people come on here all fired up and ready to QUIT. 70% of them fail. Most of those people run off to never be heard from again. Some come back hat in hand and fess up and post a Day 1. One tried to beat the system and was caught. We've already put too much time and effort into this one person. Lets go save some quits of people we can trust.

Keep posting a +1 everyday! Only you know whether you are quit or not.

Keep on Quitting!!

J

[G]

I'm quit with my group...that includes scott...yeah the support i got was great...mainly from russell and a handful of others...i'm good with them...but most of them are either staying away from this topic because it doesn't concern them or supporting this young man.  Those are the people i'm here for...diesel you sound like a bitter woman who has been cheated on....so blow it out YOUR ass....and by the way, that come back was in style in the 80's....so really FUCK OFF

jay,

don't ever accept caving. always hold the caver accountable. if that means calling him a cocksucker, then do that. if you prefer making him answer the three questions, then do that. what you shouldn't do is come in here and call folks a buncha meanies. ol' macek caved. and lied. direct your efforts to holding him accountable. keeping his word is apparently busting his ass, so he needs all the help he can get and many folks, understandably, have little interest in helping a liar.

swap numbers with macek and y'all hold each other accountable.

Here's the problem...you are an addict right? And a human being right? I don't know you and you don't know me...correct? You and and or anyone else have no idea what he was going through in his life when he slipped up right? I don't know if scott is a "cocksucker" or not. I don't know if you are or not...i do know that i'm not going to stand by and let a bunch of blow hards run a guy down who came back, admitted his mistakes and is trying to better himself.

I've only been on this site for 14 days as my intro suggests, however I do think that what makes forums like this work or not work is a general level of respect you show to the fellow posters. If one out of 14000 can get some people SOOOO pissed off that they are trying to push him off the cliff instead of pulling him back then i feel like those are so weak minded that i would question their quits as well. I'm off this thread though...and again, diesel, and all those that ripped this guy apart...stay clear of me please. I don't need your kind of help.

I think most people on this site would agree that gmann is a cocksucker, but I have always wondered how they would know.

On to the topic at hand. It is great that you have reached your hand out to Scott, after reading through this he really needs it.

Every person has a different level of tolerance for any action. For example, most people will not accept cheating on them by their spouse, for me, I would end my 24 years of marriage over that in a heartbeat. To me fidelity is sacred and if my spouse broke that there could never be trust again. Others may allow it to happen over an over again because their tolerance level is different.

The fact that Scott continued to post when he was not quit is what has people riled up. To many people on this site roll is sacred. You do not post roll if you are not nicotine free. Doing so creates lots of trust issues.

Ultimately it is up to the powers at be on whether to allow him back on this site or not, but, none of that has to effect you Jay. If you feel strongly about helping Scott with his quit you can do that even without this site.

For myself, I am too new here and have not yet established the right to judge others, but, I hope this time Scott has taken enough lumps to strengthen his quit, but only time will tell.

I'm an addict. But I guess me and lots of other folks have miraculously managed not to cave and continue posting roll like lying ass dogs, so I'm being unreasonable by not rolling out the red carpet for this gentleman.

I never said Scott doesn't deserve another chance. I hope he is able to become a non-using addict. Fine with me if he does it here and y'all sing peace songs and protest injustice at every turn. But the integrity of roll call and this site is far more important than one guy who will take a dump on it when things start getting a little tough.

[Sleestak]

I'm quit with my group...that includes scott...yeah the support i got was great...mainly from russell and a handful of others...i'm good with them...but most of them are either staying away from this topic because it doesn't concern them or supporting this young man.  Those are the people i'm here for...diesel you sound like a bitter woman who has been cheated on....so blow it out YOUR ass....and by the way, that come back was in style in the 80's....so really FUCK OFF

jay,

don't ever accept caving. always hold the caver accountable. if that means calling him a cocksucker, then do that. if you prefer making him answer the three questions, then do that. what you shouldn't do is come in here and call folks a buncha meanies. ol' macek caved. and lied. direct your efforts to holding him accountable. keeping his word is apparently busting his ass, so he needs all the help he can get and many folks, understandably, have little interest in helping a liar.

swap numbers with macek and y'all hold each other accountable.

Here's the problem...you are an addict right? And a human being right? I don't know you and you don't know me...correct? You and and or anyone else have no idea what he was going through in his life when he slipped up right? I don't know if scott is a "cocksucker" or not. I don't know if you are or not...i do know that i'm not going to stand by and let a bunch of blow hards run a guy down who came back, admitted his mistakes and is trying to better himself.

I've only been on this site for 14 days as my intro suggests, however I do think that what makes forums like this work or not work is a general level of respect you show to the fellow posters. If one out of 14000 can get some people SOOOO pissed off that they are trying to push him off the cliff instead of pulling him back then i feel like those are so weak minded that i would question their quits as well. I'm off this thread though...and again, diesel, and all those that ripped this guy apart...stay clear of me please. I don't need your kind of help.

oh but you will not only need their help.... you will want it someday I promise you that. one day you will see young one that what seems like harshness my just be saving a life. you cant see the forest because of the trees my young quit brother.

no trust me cdaniels...i have plenty of numbers i can call and people to lean on in my bad times, i won't forget all this bs.

I don't think you get it quite yet. His former group members aren't just angry with him for caving.

They are angry because he's a serial liar. Trust and accountability are the core tenets of this site. He broke those and broke them bad.

Cavers come back all the time, take a few lumps and integrate back in. But posting roll while dipping and creating a new username are pretty serious offenses and show a complete lack of integrity and character.

This is why others are raking this guy over the coals and telling to to take to lite. Sometime it's best to cut your losses.

Jay your quit is young and you're confused. This is normal. You're still releasing frustration. This is normal. What you fail to see is these guys are trying to save this mans life. This isn't a fucking game, the elders know this. One of my bro's on here had his fucking tongue cut open while his wife sat in the next room. Then he had to wait to see if he had cancer  have more time with his family. I'll repeat it, this isn't a fucking game. 14 day's quit? Awesome, but don't judge the elders, they know what they're doing, and once your quit get's stronger it'll make more sense. Focus all that energy on your own quit... go exercise or something..

He broke the singular element that makes this site work, and that is honesty when posting roll. People cave due to momentary weakness and / or stupidity and while they are usually given hell for it (because people care), they are ultimately forgiven. People understand the mistakes, the pitfalls, the pure addiction that we share and people are forgiven.

What he did was not a mistake, not a momentary weakness, nothing of the sort. He posting roll for some time while dipping. He shit all over the one thing we have on this site and that is trust and integrity in the roll call system.

Forgive if you want. I hope he quits for real this time also. I would love to know why he found it "ok" and necessary to lie on roll call though.

[jayd41]

I'm quit with my group...that includes scott...yeah the support i got was great...mainly from russell and a handful of others...i'm good with them...but most of them are either staying away from this topic because it doesn't concern them or supporting this young man.  Those are the people i'm here for...diesel you sound like a bitter woman who has been cheated on....so blow it out YOUR ass....and by the way, that come back was in style in the 80's....so really FUCK OFF

jay,

don't ever accept caving. always hold the caver accountable. if that means calling him a cocksucker, then do that. if you prefer making him answer the three questions, then do that. what you shouldn't do is come in here and call folks a buncha meanies. ol' macek caved. and lied. direct your efforts to holding him accountable. keeping his word is apparently busting his ass, so he needs all the help he can get and many folks, understandably, have little interest in helping a liar.

swap numbers with macek and y'all hold each other accountable.

Here's the problem...you are an addict right? And a human being right? I don't know you and you don't know me...correct? You and and or anyone else have no idea what he was going through in his life when he slipped up right? I don't know if scott is a "cocksucker" or not. I don't know if you are or not...i do know that i'm not going to stand by and let a bunch of blow hards run a guy down who came back, admitted his mistakes and is trying to better himself.

I've only been on this site for 14 days as my intro suggests, however I do think that what makes forums like this work or not work is a general level of respect you show to the fellow posters. If one out of 14000 can get some people SOOOO pissed off that they are trying to push him off the cliff instead of pulling him back then i feel like those are so weak minded that i would question their quits as well. I'm off this thread though...and again, diesel, and all those that ripped this guy apart...stay clear of me please. I don't need your kind of help.

(1) No matter what is going on in his life (or yours), will using make it better? Can you give me a good excuse to use?

(2) Nobody can push anybody "off a cliff" with words. Scott can choose to succeed, or he can choose to fail. But only he can decide that. We can support him, or we can ignore him. But we have no say at all as to what he does.

There is one thing and one thing only in this world that I can control and that is my actions. I choose to quit, and I choose to give everything to that.

See here's the thing waste....i agree with everything you just said. You asked insightful intelligent respectful questions. I'm very good with holding people accountable, lord knows i need to be held accountable. but like i pm'd you early waste....i spent time in jail with people that were more respectful then some of this bullshit i've seen on this thread and i have scott's back.

I don't like that he caved or what he did...but i can leave it at that.

Let me try to explain why this is a particularly big deal Jay.

For me, it doesn't matter that he's caved several times. We can debate how many second chances are warranted, but that question is irrelevant to the situation at hand. Whether or not he 'slipped up' is not the concern here.

The main issue that I have with Scott is that he posted that he was quit at least five times while he was actively using. That is the truly unforgivable sin on this forum. Part of the reason that this site works is knowing that each and every man and woman that posted roll today is going to make it through the day without using. Every once in a while, someone will post roll and cave that day. It is almost always in a new quit group, and that person rightfully gets raked over the coals. Once that person has addressed what happened, why it happened and what they plan to do differently so it doesn't happen again, most of the people here will dust them off and get right back to supporting them. We are hard on them, but ultimately want to help if they want to actually quit. This situation is VERY different. Not only did Scott not keep his word, but he continued to post roll purporting to be quit when that was not the case. This site cannot work unless we all believe each other when we put our names on the line at the start of every day.

I don't care that he caved. People cave, it's a fact of life. I think the most optimistic numbers suggest that no more than 20% of the people here that sign a day 1 will remain quit for a year. That is not what has me riled up. It is the continued lying about being quit that is the real problem. And that is a problem that has no place here. There are places that type of behavior is acceptable, places that have much lower success rates than KTC does. But I will protect this house. And if, after committing not one but two bannable offenses, the admins decide to let him stay here, I will be leaving. That's how serious I think this is.

It's as serious as life or death.

Oh my Lord i understand....i get the frustration, i respect the concerns...(what else can i say to make you all understand that i GET IT). I am honestly just giving this guy probably some of the only positive support he's gotten since he came back. I DO believe in multiple chances....now if my wife cheated on me i'd bounce...but scott is not my wife (i like the pussy) and i wasn't around then so i'm throwing a line to him...and honestly it's worked because some of the grumpier old men here have left him alone which has probably helped his quit just a little today...i know when i feel backed into a corner i'm going to come out swinging and probably with a can in my pocket...so i'm doing my part to pull him back off the ledge, not push him off

[kana]

I'm quit with my group...that includes scott...yeah the support i got was great...mainly from russell and a handful of others...i'm good with them...but most of them are either staying away from this topic because it doesn't concern them or supporting this young man.  Those are the people i'm here for...diesel you sound like a bitter woman who has been cheated on....so blow it out YOUR ass....and by the way, that come back was in style in the 80's....so really FUCK OFF

jay,

don't ever accept caving. always hold the caver accountable. if that means calling him a cocksucker, then do that. if you prefer making him answer the three questions, then do that. what you shouldn't do is come in here and call folks a buncha meanies. ol' macek caved. and lied. direct your efforts to holding him accountable. keeping his word is apparently busting his ass, so he needs all the help he can get and many folks, understandably, have little interest in helping a liar.

swap numbers with macek and y'all hold each other accountable.

Here's the problem...you are an addict right? And a human being right? I don't know you and you don't know me...correct? You and and or anyone else have no idea what he was going through in his life when he slipped up right? I don't know if scott is a "cocksucker" or not. I don't know if you are or not...i do know that i'm not going to stand by and let a bunch of blow hards run a guy down who came back, admitted his mistakes and is trying to better himself.

I've only been on this site for 14 days as my intro suggests, however I do think that what makes forums like this work or not work is a general level of respect you show to the fellow posters. If one out of 14000 can get some people SOOOO pissed off that they are trying to push him off the cliff instead of pulling him back then i feel like those are so weak minded that i would question their quits as well. I'm off this thread though...and again, diesel, and all those that ripped this guy apart...stay clear of me please. I don't need your kind of help.

oh but you will not only need their help.... you will want it someday I promise you that. one day you will see young one that what seems like harshness my just be saving a life. you cant see the forest because of the trees my young quit brother.

no trust me cdaniels...i have plenty of numbers i can call and people to lean on in my bad times, i won't forget all this bs.

I don't think you get it quite yet. His former group members aren't just angry with him for caving.

They are angry because he's a serial liar. Trust and accountability are the core tenets of this site. He broke those and broke them bad.

Cavers come back all the time, take a few lumps and integrate back in. But posting roll while dipping and creating a new username are pretty serious offenses and show a complete lack of integrity and character.

This is why others are raking this guy over the coals and telling to to take to lite. Sometime it's best to cut your losses.

Jay your quit is young and you're confused. This is normal. You're still releasing frustration. This is normal. What you fail to see is these guys are trying to save this mans life. This isn't a fucking game, the elders know this. One of my bro's on here had his fucking tongue cut open while his wife sat in the next room. Then he had to wait to see if he had cancer  have more time with his family. I'll repeat it, this isn't a fucking game. 14 day's quit? Awesome, but don't judge the elders, they know what they're doing, and once your quit get's stronger it'll make more sense. Focus all that energy on your own quit... go exercise or something..

[wastepanel]

And if i have to eat my words because he caves, then i'll hunt him down and break his legs, but until then i'm quit with scott...

You just made my signature bud.

[Jlud007]

I'm quit with my group...that includes scott...yeah the support i got was great...mainly from russell and a handful of others...i'm good with them...but most of them are either staying away from this topic because it doesn't concern them or supporting this young man.  Those are the people i'm here for...diesel you sound like a bitter woman who has been cheated on....so blow it out YOUR ass....and by the way, that come back was in style in the 80's....so really FUCK OFF

Fuck of eh? LOL. OH NO, That hurt my feelings. I might leave this site now, because I'm a little pussy.

MAN THE FUCK UP PEOPLE!!!!!!!!!!!!

And, yeah dick weed, the comeback was in the style of the 80's in response to your reference of "real nice Clark..." which I believe was a a movie from the 80's correct??? National Lampoons Family Vacation??? Moron.

I only get bitter when topics like this come up. I've made over a 1,000 posts on here, 98% of them have been supportive and positive. It grinds me when people piss on this site and abuse it. If you look at the responses of the guys who have chosen to get involved you will see a lot of them are vets. I believe they feel the same way. This site was built a certain way, and seems to be helping you, you SHOULD pay attention to this thread. You start allowing people to do whatever the fuck they want and this place will start to become soft and decay. Soon everybody will be caving multiple times and be welcomed back with open arms, and this site will be SHIT.

I support cavers who are truly sorry, come back, man up and quit like fuck. Not guys who cave multiple times, create aliases and lie through their fucking teeth.

Read what Roamandog just wrote. It is the truth. Or will you tell him to fuck off too?

I am still new to the site and even had a lame early cave. Honestly I want people like Diesel, Waste and other vets to keep things honest. If people are allowed to float by without being called out for lying, posting roll while using, and the other bannable offenses the site loses its teeth and its purpose. I've been on and off the dip stop train enough times that I finally understand what it takes. Please continue to hold us accountable and honest fellas. Quit On!

[Seth]

I'm quit with my group...that includes scott...yeah the support i got was great...mainly from russell and a handful of others...i'm good with them...but most of them are either staying away from this topic because it doesn't concern them or supporting this young man.  Those are the people i'm here for...diesel you sound like a bitter woman who has been cheated on....so blow it out YOUR ass....and by the way, that come back was in style in the 80's....so really FUCK OFF

jay,

don't ever accept caving. always hold the caver accountable. if that means calling him a cocksucker, then do that. if you prefer making him answer the three questions, then do that. what you shouldn't do is come in here and call folks a buncha meanies. ol' macek caved. and lied. direct your efforts to holding him accountable. keeping his word is apparently busting his ass, so he needs all the help he can get and many folks, understandably, have little interest in helping a liar.

swap numbers with macek and y'all hold each other accountable.

Here's the problem...you are an addict right? And a human being right? I don't know you and you don't know me...correct? You and and or anyone else have no idea what he was going through in his life when he slipped up right? I don't know if scott is a "cocksucker" or not. I don't know if you are or not...i do know that i'm not going to stand by and let a bunch of blow hards run a guy down who came back, admitted his mistakes and is trying to better himself.

I've only been on this site for 14 days as my intro suggests, however I do think that what makes forums like this work or not work is a general level of respect you show to the fellow posters. If one out of 14000 can get some people SOOOO pissed off that they are trying to push him off the cliff instead of pulling him back then i feel like those are so weak minded that i would question their quits as well. I'm off this thread though...and again, diesel, and all those that ripped this guy apart...stay clear of me please. I don't need your kind of help.

(1) No matter what is going on in his life (or yours), will using make it better? Can you give me a good excuse to use?

(2) Nobody can push anybody "off a cliff" with words. Scott can choose to succeed, or he can choose to fail. But only he can decide that. We can support him, or we can ignore him. But we have no say at all as to what he does.

There is one thing and one thing only in this world that I can control and that is my actions. I choose to quit, and I choose to give everything to that.

See here's the thing waste....i agree with everything you just said. You asked insightful intelligent respectful questions. I'm very good with holding people accountable, lord knows i need to be held accountable. but like i pm'd you early waste....i spent time in jail with people that were more respectful then some of this bullshit i've seen on this thread and i have scott's back.

I don't like that he caved or what he did...but i can leave it at that.

Let me try to explain why this is a particularly big deal Jay.

For me, it doesn't matter that he's caved several times. We can debate how many second chances are warranted, but that question is irrelevant to the situation at hand. Whether or not he 'slipped up' is not the concern here.

The main issue that I have with Scott is that he posted that he was quit at least five times while he was actively using. That is the truly unforgivable sin on this forum. Part of the reason that this site works is knowing that each and every man and woman that posted roll today is going to make it through the day without using. Every once in a while, someone will post roll and cave that day. It is almost always in a new quit group, and that person rightfully gets raked over the coals. Once that person has addressed what happened, why it happened and what they plan to do differently so it doesn't happen again, most of the people here will dust them off and get right back to supporting them. We are hard on them, but ultimately want to help if they want to actually quit. This situation is VERY different. Not only did Scott not keep his word, but he continued to post roll purporting to be quit when that was not the case. This site cannot work unless we all believe each other when we put our names on the line at the start of every day.

I don't care that he caved. People cave, it's a fact of life. I think the most optimistic numbers suggest that no more than 20% of the people here that sign a day 1 will remain quit for a year. That is not what has me riled up. It is the continued lying about being quit that is the real problem. And that is a problem that has no place here. There are places that type of behavior is acceptable, places that have much lower success rates than KTC does. But I will protect this house. And if, after committing not one but two bannable offenses, the admins decide to let him stay here, I will be leaving. That's how serious I think this is.

It's as serious as life or death.

[jayd41]

I'm quit with my group...that includes scott...yeah the support i got was great...mainly from russell and a handful of others...i'm good with them...but most of them are either staying away from this topic because it doesn't concern them or supporting this young man.  Those are the people i'm here for...diesel you sound like a bitter woman who has been cheated on....so blow it out YOUR ass....and by the way, that come back was in style in the 80's....so really FUCK OFF

jay,

don't ever accept caving. always hold the caver accountable. if that means calling him a cocksucker, then do that. if you prefer making him answer the three questions, then do that. what you shouldn't do is come in here and call folks a buncha meanies. ol' macek caved. and lied. direct your efforts to holding him accountable. keeping his word is apparently busting his ass, so he needs all the help he can get and many folks, understandably, have little interest in helping a liar.

swap numbers with macek and y'all hold each other accountable.

Here's the problem...you are an addict right? And a human being right? I don't know you and you don't know me...correct? You and and or anyone else have no idea what he was going through in his life when he slipped up right? I don't know if scott is a "cocksucker" or not. I don't know if you are or not...i do know that i'm not going to stand by and let a bunch of blow hards run a guy down who came back, admitted his mistakes and is trying to better himself.

I've only been on this site for 14 days as my intro suggests, however I do think that what makes forums like this work or not work is a general level of respect you show to the fellow posters. If one out of 14000 can get some people SOOOO pissed off that they are trying to push him off the cliff instead of pulling him back then i feel like those are so weak minded that i would question their quits as well. I'm off this thread though...and again, diesel, and all those that ripped this guy apart...stay clear of me please. I don't need your kind of help.

oh but you will not only need their help.... you will want it someday I promise you that. one day you will see young one that what seems like harshness my just be saving a life. you cant see the forest because of the trees my young quit brother.

no trust me cdaniels...i have plenty of numbers i can call and people to lean on in my bad times, i won't forget all this bs.

I don't think you get it quite yet. His former group members aren't just angry with him for caving.

They are angry because he's a serial liar. Trust and accountability are the core tenets of this site. He broke those and broke them bad.

Cavers come back all the time, take a few lumps and integrate back in. But posting roll while dipping and creating a new username are pretty serious offenses and show a complete lack of integrity and character.

This is why others are raking this guy over the coals and telling to to take to lite. Sometime it's best to cut your losses.

What you don't understand is that i DO understand why his group was upset. Perfectly fine to feel a little betrayed i guess. Addicts lie...it happens...but i'm not gonna stand on the sidelines and let somebody just get ripped apart when he's giving an effort. And if i have to eat my words because he caves, then i'll hunt him down and break his legs, but until then i'm quit with scott...

[Kubrick]

I'm quit with my group...that includes scott...yeah the support i got was great...mainly from russell and a handful of others...i'm good with them...but most of them are either staying away from this topic because it doesn't concern them or supporting this young man.  Those are the people i'm here for...diesel you sound like a bitter woman who has been cheated on....so blow it out YOUR ass....and by the way, that come back was in style in the 80's....so really FUCK OFF

jay,

don't ever accept caving. always hold the caver accountable. if that means calling him a cocksucker, then do that. if you prefer making him answer the three questions, then do that. what you shouldn't do is come in here and call folks a buncha meanies. ol' macek caved. and lied. direct your efforts to holding him accountable. keeping his word is apparently busting his ass, so he needs all the help he can get and many folks, understandably, have little interest in helping a liar.

swap numbers with macek and y'all hold each other accountable.

Here's the problem...you are an addict right? And a human being right? I don't know you and you don't know me...correct? You and and or anyone else have no idea what he was going through in his life when he slipped up right? I don't know if scott is a "cocksucker" or not. I don't know if you are or not...i do know that i'm not going to stand by and let a bunch of blow hards run a guy down who came back, admitted his mistakes and is trying to better himself.

I've only been on this site for 14 days as my intro suggests, however I do think that what makes forums like this work or not work is a general level of respect you show to the fellow posters. If one out of 14000 can get some people SOOOO pissed off that they are trying to push him off the cliff instead of pulling him back then i feel like those are so weak minded that i would question their quits as well. I'm off this thread though...and again, diesel, and all those that ripped this guy apart...stay clear of me please. I don't need your kind of help.

oh but you will not only need their help.... you will want it someday I promise you that. one day you will see young one that what seems like harshness my just be saving a life. you cant see the forest because of the trees my young quit brother.

no trust me cdaniels...i have plenty of numbers i can call and people to lean on in my bad times, i won't forget all this bs.

I don't think you get it quite yet. His former group members aren't just angry with him for caving.

They are angry because he's a serial liar. Trust and accountability are the core tenets of this site. He broke those and broke them bad.

Cavers come back all the time, take a few lumps and integrate back in. But posting roll while dipping and creating a new username are pretty serious offenses and show a complete lack of integrity and character.

This is why others are raking this guy over the coals and telling to to take to lite. Sometime it's best to cut your losses.

[cdaniels]

I'm quit with my group...that includes scott...yeah the support i got was great...mainly from russell and a handful of others...i'm good with them...but most of them are either staying away from this topic because it doesn't concern them or supporting this young man.  Those are the people i'm here for...diesel you sound like a bitter woman who has been cheated on....so blow it out YOUR ass....and by the way, that come back was in style in the 80's....so really FUCK OFF

jay,

don't ever accept caving. always hold the caver accountable. if that means calling him a cocksucker, then do that. if you prefer making him answer the three questions, then do that. what you shouldn't do is come in here and call folks a buncha meanies. ol' macek caved. and lied. direct your efforts to holding him accountable. keeping his word is apparently busting his ass, so he needs all the help he can get and many folks, understandably, have little interest in helping a liar.

swap numbers with macek and y'all hold each other accountable.

Here's the problem...you are an addict right? And a human being right? I don't know you and you don't know me...correct? You and and or anyone else have no idea what he was going through in his life when he slipped up right? I don't know if scott is a "cocksucker" or not. I don't know if you are or not...i do know that i'm not going to stand by and let a bunch of blow hards run a guy down who came back, admitted his mistakes and is trying to better himself.

I've only been on this site for 14 days as my intro suggests, however I do think that what makes forums like this work or not work is a general level of respect you show to the fellow posters. If one out of 14000 can get some people SOOOO pissed off that they are trying to push him off the cliff instead of pulling him back then i feel like those are so weak minded that i would question their quits as well. I'm off this thread though...and again, diesel, and all those that ripped this guy apart...stay clear of me please. I don't need your kind of help.

oh but you will not only need their help.... you will want it someday I promise you that. one day you will see young one that what seems like harshness my just be saving a life. you cant see the forest because of the trees my young quit brother.

no trust me cdaniels...i have plenty of numbers i can call and people to lean on in my bad times, i won't forget all this bs.

I sure hope you dont forget it. You will look back from a different point of view later on in your quit. Use all this to learn and grow in your quit. There is alot of wisdom in this thread